thank you very much for watching. a.m. joy starts with joy reed right now. >> this american carnage stops right here and stops right now. >> good morning. welcome to a.m. joy. there is a lot of news to get to this morning. day 30 of the longest government shutdown in u.s. history including donald trump's supposed compromise plan on immigration floated in a speech that didn't even mention the shutdown. we start with today marking exactly two years since donald trump's inauguration and his speech promising to end an era of what he called american carnage. what has actually been the american carnage? one might argue it's been two years of this. >> i'm establishing new vetting measures to keep radical islamic terrorists out of the united states of america.

we don't want them here. >> let's be clear, refugees aren't welcome here. >> it's inhumane. >> the president is arresting children and arresting babies because mexico refused to pay for his wall. one question that has continued to worry many observers of this crisis and continues to worry us tonight, even with this new reporting is where are the girls? where are the babies? >> you have some very bad people in that group. you had people that were very fine people on both sides.

>> they had beautiful soft towels, very good towels. i came in and there were a crowd of a lot of people screaming and loving everything. i was having fun. they were having fun. they said throw them to me, mr. president. i will take the mantle. i will be the one to shut it down. i'm not going to blame you for it. >> i am donating plasma, cutting back on anything that we don't need. those are things i haven't ever had to do before. yeah, desperate times call for desperate measures. >> joining me now, democratic congressman eric swalwell. congressman, thank you very much for joining us this morning. >> good morning, joy. >> so donald trump gave a speech yesterday afternoon, 4:00 or so in the afternoon, in which he proposed what he's calling a compromise on immigration. we did a word count.

he mentioned drugs six times. crime or criminal five times. he said the word gang three times. he only said shutdown once. he said federal worker nos ti e times. didn't mention them at all. what was your reaction to the speech? >> he also didn't say the words i and so many people in america hoped he would say that he's going to immediately open up the government. believe it or not, a couple of nights ago i joined volunteers in downtown washington, d.c. outside where many federal agencies are and served dinners to federal workers. it was hard to watch fbi uniformed police officers standing in line to get dinner because they are work so hard, so bravely and not getting paid. one person leaned in to me as i was serving a chicken sandwich and soup and asked if i could give her two more for her kids at home. this is the united states of

america. these are working class folks. we see that just one paycheck being missed for so many of us can really just knock us off course and set us back. so people want to hear he's going to open the government. they don't want him to negotiate away the issue by asking us to accept a wall so he releases federal workers or he gives a path for the dreamers. they just want government open. >> yeah. to your point, i want to show the audience and hopefully you can see it where you are. this is a report from our nbc washington bureau. tracy wilkins is the reporter on it. showing federal workers lining up to get food due to the shutdown. take a look. >> reporter: many folks in the line worked for the federal government for decades. >> 30-something years. >> reporter: and don't know what it is like to go without a check. that's how nicole feels. >> i think i cry every day. >> reporter: this mom who works for the irs. >> i have two sons. they know.

they're like, mom's going to stand in line today for food. >> never thought you'd be here. >> never thought. >> donald trump had nothing to say to those people. he talked about crime, gangs, criminals, criminalizing people. he didn't talk to democrats about his idea for what to do about immigration. if you could talk to the president today and have five minutes with him, what would you tell him? >> i would urge the president to open up a government and assure him that what he wants, he's getting. he's going to get border security, increased border patrol agents, increased technology to go after the ports of entry where 90% of drugs are coming through and where there are vulnerabilities there will be a barrier. he wants border security. the sea to shining sea wall he can't even articulate and i don't think he understands it.

he won't get it. it is an immoral symbol of the united states which is supposed to be welcoming and it is not effective. you can go under it, over it and through it. i'm afraid, joy. i don't think that's what this is about. the last thing donald trump cares about is actually having a wall. this is more about the other walls closing in and him on the mueller investigation, on what we are learning about the mo emolliements clause. >> are you running for president? >> i'm considering it. i was at the greenville women's march. they have made a lot of progress since two years ago when they started. there is a lot more to work for. >> keep us posted. if you run, we have a great idea for a place for you to announce. >> thank you. >> let's bring in the panel. staff writer at the atlantic

natasha bertrand, jacob soberoff. jacob, you have been covering the border crisis of the administration's making for some time now. i want to play you what donald trump said yesterday about his so-called compromise to end the shutdown. listen. >> if we build a powerful, fully designed see-through steel barrier on our southern border the crime rate and drug problem will be greatly reduced. some say cut in half. these drug smugglers, gangs and traffickers do not stop at the border. they perm nate our country and end up in some places where you would least expect them. >> putting aside whether or not you can see through steel and his weird idea for a see-through

steel barrier which is a euphemism for the wall. when you were at the border did you see marauding drug traffickers, smugglers? >> no. >> what did you see? >> one of the safest places in the united states of america. people are welcoming and want people to be there. often times on the border the communities are the vast majority of people who had ancestors, relatives or people on the other side of the border today. i think you set it up. we have to shift the vantage point. donald trump is a carnage creator. perhaps no greater carnage than separating thousands of children. i had the misfortune of having to see it with my own eyes. we found out last week there are thousands more children than the ones we thought were separated, separated by this administration. he did it yesterday with temporary protected status. he took it away and says he'll give some back.

daca. he took it away. he took the jobs of 800,000 federal workers over the wall which is just a ridiculous solution to a nonexistent problem that this president keeps hammering. >> drug smuggling happens. when you were at the border did you get the sense people were on foot putting packs of drugs on children. were the kids smuggling drugs? >> certainly not. the exception to the rule is drugs between the ports of entry. i have seen it with my own eyes. they're shoved into the engines of cars or into the seats. they don't come through the places the president says they are coming through. by the way, every victim of an opioid overdose should be insulted the way the president talks about it. he says 300 people are dying a day. those drugs aren't coming from where the president says they are. >> meantime i want to play more.

you cannot see it enough. these are people. donald trump sees them as democrats who all live the washington, d.c. let's listen to more federal workers describing the impact of the shutdown on them. >> i posted a lot of stuff on craigslist. i planned on having a garage sale this summer, but all the stuff i would sell this summer i'm going to be selling now. just to try to get some cash to keep us afloat for however long this ends. >> if i don't have my rent in by the first of next month i will be evicted. i can't even go to my family, mr. mcconnell. my family is with the federal government. five people in my family are furloughed. >> they had their pay frozen in december. last august he said the government can't afford to give them a raise.

now they don't have any money at all. when you talk to republicans, how do they justify linking, giving people back the pay they have earned, that they are still earning working for free, linking that to a fake border crisis they've got to know isn't real. >> they seem to be completely aligned with the president on this point. they say this is -- the democrats are the ones obstructing a deal on this. >> the house of representatives -- >> the president already said he owns the shutdown. i don't think federal workers talking about how they have been so affected will move the president at all. once we start to see how this is affecting our national security because it will start to affect our national security in a real way that could change the calculus here. i get e-mails from current federal workers, current fbi agents, current tsa workers daily saying this is unsustainable.

this is really going to start to have an impact on our operations. the budget constraints are getting to us. they are paying out of their pockets for travel. i have someone who works for the fbi saying, look, if i have to travel to africa, they had to pay out of pocket and said, i can't do that. these are things that will have this dramatic impact on how the fbi, for example, conducts its sensitive operations. eric swalwell made the point that trump doesn't care about the wall. if he did he would make an effort to work with the democrats on this. he sees the walls closing in about him with the mueller investigation. guess who else? prosecutors who are investigating him. they don't necessarily have the resources they needed to properly conduct investigations. this is all one big effort to

distract. we are seeing it play out in real time. >> interesting. perry, mitch mcconnell must understand. if people are e-mailing reporters and journal is i'm sure they are calling the senate majority leader saying, look, this is going to become a national security concern. air traffic controllers cannot be stressed out, not able to get to work. the fbi cannot be underfunded. he must know that. try to explain for the audience what it is mitch mcconnell outsourced the job to donald trump. he said the only bill on the floor is coming from donald trump's speech. >> yesterday was about press coverage. it was really about republicans and donald trump. they are nervous about the strategy. donald trump finally gave them a bill they can call a compromise to bring it to the floor, vote on it. democrats can block it. that's what mr. mcconnell wanted. you saw two moderate senators in

danger of losing next year. they praise the compromise. this is a move to buy donald trump time with republicans not fully on the strategy. we know the republicans don't care about the wall that much. in 2017, 2018, paul ryan and mitch mcconnell never put a wall on a bill and never pushed for it. the wall isn't something they care about. this is about loyalty to donald trump. this is about loyalty to donald trump. they'll stay loyal as long as possible. they are worried about primary challenges. they are seeing mitch mcconnell knows the party wants him to stay with donald trump. he'll do it for a while, but eventually he won't be able to. >> thank you very much. appreciate your time. coming up next, new details on just how cruel donald trump's

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for prosecution. >> that may have been perjury. despite the claim her department never had a policy of child separation, a draft internal dhs memo written in 2017 and released this week by senator jeff merkley shows the administration was considering plans to target migrant families, arrest the parents and place the children in government custody as unaccompanied minors. joining me is senator jeff merkley of oregon calling for an open investigation into the dhs secretary. good morning, senator. >> good morning, joy. good to be with you. >> let me read the statement from the department of homeland security made to the washington post about a perjury investigation. as secretary nielsen said and testified dhs never had a policy of separating families in

custody. what this memo is shows is the secretary was provided a den you of options we predicted at that time and which manifested itself today. >> aren't we all so tired of the administration lying to the american people time after time after time? here is the evidence that this was what they were planning, that they were planning, yes, to arrest families coming across the border and separate children from parents. it was right there with all the implications. they implemented it and we all saw a massive increase of children in detention. we saw children being -- well, a population of children in child prisons in america grew from migrants, from 7,000 in june to 15,000 in the middle of december. they implemented this horrific

policy. the administration comes and says we did no such thing. we wouldn't do this. it is an absurdity. we have to keep trying to call the administration to account. >> you're calling for a perjury investigation. the dhs was presented -- the secretary was presented a menu of options in the memo. what other options were in the menu. >> there were options like throwing children back across the border into mexico. that's not one they implemented. the one they implemented and we saw it, i went down there in june and witnessed the children being separated into big fence-style cages. went to one of the detention centers in brownsville. 1500 boys were there and months before there were only 300. i went to a child prison in

torneo that grew to 2700 kids by the middle of december. yes, they adopted children from their parents. we have court decisions that said you can't proceed in this fashion. so we can't miss the main point here which is they adopted a strategy of herding children as a strategy of deterrents. that's a political strategy. this memo speaks to that. it says there will be pushback from the public. pushback from advocates. it says the implications are we need more space for children in detention centers. it lays it out just as it was implemented by the administration. >> we now know per an nbc exclusive report thousands more children were separated than first thought. as a united states senator are you able to access information on who profited from that.

do we know what private detention entities, private prison entities made money housing and detaining kids and how much they made. >> we have had great difficulty getting the republican leadership in the senate to hold hearings and hold investigations. the press did a good job on situations for example southwest keys and the leadership of the so-called nonprofit with extraordinary wealth. but that's because the press did its job. thank you for the press doing its job. the democratic leadership will undoubtedly look into the details and provide the oversight and accountability that congress is supposed to be providing. >> we are out of time. quickly, do you plan on voting for the new bill that donald trump is putting forward, calling it a compromise on immigration? are you going to vote for it? >> absolutely not. >> senator, thank you very much

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other day i was just thinking maybe i should bring that jacket and get some white paint because i remember another jacket. i wanted to say that we do care. we will always care. >> on friday, native americans held their first ever indigenous people's march in washington, d.c. to bring attention to issues affecting native communities. a moment has gone viral -- an interaction between native marchers and a group of high school students in d.c. for the anti-abortion march for life. [ shouting ] >> at least some of the students were from covington catholic high school in kentucky.

the catholic diocese of covington said, quote, we condemn the actions of the covington catholic high school students towards nathan phillips specifically and native americans in general. we extend apologies to mr. phillips. this is opposed to teachings on the dig tiny and respect of the human person. the diocese said the matter is under investigation and some students could be expelled. joining me now by phone, the man you saw in the video, indigenous rights activist and omaha tribal elder nathan phillips. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you. >> tell us what happened. give us the full story, the back story to what we saw in the video. >> well, it started at the end of our rally there on the washington monument grounds. first i would like to say thank you for bringing me on. >> of course.

>> and allowing me to say a few words here. we were there at the end of our march. there was a group of fellows there that were having their moment on -- what i call a soapbox moment in d.c. they were out there saying words. this young group of students, we were listening to what they were saying. neither of these groups were part of our organization, our group. they were just -- there were just more things happening in d.c. >> two different groups were confronting each other. the students and another group? >> yeah. i hear the other group is the black israelites or something. >> mm-hmm. >> during our rally they set up at the edge of our permitted space and started just, you know, saying things,

instigating. so i told our folks that were still there asking me should we say something to them, ask them to move off or something. i said, well, they are on the other side of our permitted area, so we can't say nothing, do nothing. so just ignore them. we did. we were accomplishing that just fine until these other kids -- well, the march for right to life had just gotten done. we were getting all this mass of people coming through our area, just being in the way sort of, you know. we were trying to pick up, clean up and put things away. >> right. >> so these groups of kids were walking through, saying it's indians and they have heard about it. they're making remarks to each other, not to us. >> so there is video, so many people took video at the event. that's the modern era. you can see at one point you walk between the group of african-americans and the students. >> oh, yeah.

>> why did you choose to walk up to the students? >> well, first when i was there -- there was a group. it didn't just happen like that. that was a build-up of about two hours of back and forth between the black israelites and the students. we were standing there watching this. first they came, there were about six of them. they went away. they came back with about 20. they went away, came back with about 60. they surrounded these black kids, black guys. taunting them, racial taunts back and forth. we were just at the sidelines watching this. this is about an hour. then they went away. the 60 came back, 100, maybe 200 of them. they were just a big mob. just ugly, ugly mob.

>> when you wound up in this conversation, this has now gone viral. you facing off with the one young man and there were other students doing what sounded like faux native american chants around you. what were you feeling in that moment? what did you think was happening? what did you think their goal was in facing you? >> well, the goal -- what happened was it was -- there's a term for it where their attention was on the black israelites. when i seen what was happening at the end and where it was getting to there was just like it needed a little spark and the mob would have descended on those four guys and ripped them apart. that's what it looked like, felt like. i started singing our prayers to god. the drum is an instrument we use to communicate to god. >> mm-hmm. >> so when i started the drum

beat it was in my mind that, god, look at us here now, you know? i'm praying, god. we are at our indigenous people's march and we want to end this in a good way. look at my america. look at my black and white brothers tearing at each other. we are at a point where you can't stand by and watch this. you're an american and you see america being torn apart, burned down. if you can't -- got to do something. >> sir -- >> you have to stop it. >> now the possibility some of the students who get expelled for the confrontation with you, do you think they should be expelled? >> i don't know about the expulsion. i think the chaperones should be fired. >> you saw adult there is? >> no.

where were they? how did they allow the students to come to this point after an hour of this happening? were they with them? were they encouraging them? >> nathan phillips, thank you for your service. you are a veteran of the vietnam war. thank you very much for taking some time to call in and talk with us this morning and take care, sir. thank you. >> yes. >> thank you very much. thank you, sir. coming up, we discuss the security threats facing the country on day 30 of the government shutdown. when former homeland security secretary jay johnson joins me next. secretary jay johnson joine next these feet raised a bouncing boy and climbed the ladder in the hardware business. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision.

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we are not paying people to keep us safe, the tsa agents who stop bombs from coming onto planes, fbi agents who track down terrorists in our country, the dea agents who stop the flow of drugs into the country and immigration officials who patrol the border. people think of federal employees in the washington area. no, they are all over the country. they are in small town, usa. >> it is now day 30 of the government shutdown. of the 800,000 federal employees not being paid, about a third work for the department of homeland security. the dhs oversees everything from disaster preparedness to cyber security to counter terrorism. in other words, keeping the country safe. it's important to remember the trump shutdown doesn't just affect federal employees. it is not just a matter of

overflowing trash cans at national parks. it could be a matter of life and death. joining me now, jay johnson who served during president obama's second term. thanks for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> we know 245,000 workers are furloughed. they are owed more than $1 billion in total. beside it is personal risk to finances and economic security of the workers, what is the larng larger risk in your view. >> you are right to first identify the trials and tribulations we are putting our federal workers through. most of them live paycheck to paycheck. four years ago you may remember we came within minutes of dhs having to shut down. i lived through that. one thing i took on was personally counseling someone with stage 4 cancer who needed her paycheck for her co-pays for cancer treatments. i'm sure there are stories like

that now. you are right to point out that in the midst of focusing on the wall or no wall we have a much larger more comprehensive security crisis in our midst. that's the most important research, resource of the department of homeland security, the department of justice is our people, the people we depend upon to screen for explosives to protect us. the secret service, coast guard, border security, port security. we are taking these people who we depend upon for our safety and inflict on them all sorts of trauma, stress, anxiety, anger. we are seeing rising levels of absenteeism within tsa. i believe it's near a breaking point. if they have to miss a second paycheck and we are talking about people who earn 30, 40, 50, 60, 70,000 a year. they depend upon the income for

themselves and their families. many members of the coast guard are deployed overseas for weeks at a time. they left behind families who depend upon the direct deposit twice a month. if they are not getting paid, this is the most basic failure of our political leadership, in my judgment. the basic thing we elect leaders to do is to keep the government open, keep the security apparatus open and pay workers. if we are not doing that now, they are not doing the most basic aspect of our job in washington. >> you mentioned the coast guard. there is a piece in the "the washington post." here is a quote. while congress approved funding for the defense department, the coast guard is part of the department of homeland security whose agencies are affected by the shutdown. they are essential workers working for free. a quote says i see people panicking. how dangerous is it to our security for people who are charged with security -- donald

trump said there is a crisis of drug smuggling. the coast guard is part of the first line of defense. if they are panicking what does that do to our safety? >> it's common ens isense f. yoe people we depend upon for security and our leaders inflict upon them personal stress, stress to their families and themselves and their personal lives, you are compromising their ability to work, to focus on their jobs. they have to take up the slack for those who are furloughed in the midst of planning something as large, for example, as the state of the union which is on hold or the super bowl. hundreds, if not thousands of federal law enforcement personnel are dedicated to the super bowl. >> right. >> in two weeks. it's common sense. but beyond that, even if the shutdown ended tomorrow, the damage we have done to our homeland security, i believe, will be long-term in terms of morale, attrition, a lot of

members of the coast guard may think twice about reenlisting creating a retention and a recruitment dilemma for us. >> speaking of problems we can't just unwind when the shutdown ends, cyber security. >> dhs is responsible for the cyber security. there is a cyber security center in washington. many people are furloughed. i drove past dhs headquarters in washington, nebraska avenue. you have thousands of people dedicated to supporting the senior leadership of homeland security including the secretary, deputy secretary. when i drove past wednesday at health care, the parking lot was empty. if i had an empty parking lot to support me when i had to do my job, my job would be compromised. we are now into the second month of this. >> just in closing, what do you make of the fact that donald trump didn't mention this yesterday when he gave his

speech? >> well, i heard a mix of messages in the speech. on the one hand i believe there is a failure to recognize among the leadership in washington the damage we are doing to the security now. on the other hand, in the speech, the vocabulary, he refers to it as a barricade, not a wall. signalling perhaps a willingness to compromise or to move in a certain direction. i believe you could pull out the politics and emotion of this. two lawyers who know how to wordsmith things could resolve this in 45 minutes. can you call it a wall, fence, add in other surveillance? you could resolve this without a lot of difficulty if we could have the leaders sit down, take out the emotion, the politics and resolve it for the good of our security. >> you and mitch mcconnell perhaps. place a call to him and let us

know. thank you very much jeh johnson for being here. next up, new details on buzzfeed's michael cohen story. and i'm a little bit rock 'n' roll. i'm a little bit of memphis and nashville. with a little bit of motown in my soul. i don't know if it's good or bad. but i know i love it so. with a little bit of country. and a little bit of rock 'n' roll. the all new chevy silverado. it's a little bit country, and it's a little bit rock 'n' roll. ♪ you might or joints.hing for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials

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with him, certainly no discussions with him in which he told him or counseled him to lie. if he had any discussions with him, they would be about the version of the events that michael cohen gave then which they all believed was true. >> which they all believe is true. >> you acknowledged that it is possible that michael cohen talked to cohen. >> so it is possible that it happened. >> i don't know if it happened or not. it may be an attorney/client privilege. >> the president refute one o f the claims in the buzzfeed report that rudy giuliani says it may or may not happen. mueller's spokesperson told others in the government that he would discourage the report from proceeding with the story. had he known it would alleged that cohen would told the

special counsel that trump directed him to lie. joining me now is gabriel sherman, our special kr correspondent from "vanity fair" and clint watts. thank you both for being here. gabriel, i am going to start with you. >> what was discussed was cohen's version of event which trump would have believed to be true. the challenge with that is what cohen testify to was a false date at which he and donald trump stopped pursuing the tower. what do you make of rudy giuliani's defense there? >> clearly, anything rudy giuliani says we can't take seriously because it moves so many times throughout this investigation. last week he said there may have been collusion but donald trump does not know about it.

the under line story is this is a historic moment where mueller had drawn a line and the media reported phonetically of this investigation but what about this report in particular caused the special counsel's office to break their silence. >> have anyone in the trump's business been interviewed. >> that's what we don't know. i think the clear case, the news value of the buzzfeed report was they were saying the special counsel's office its uncovered that michael cohen testified donald trump committed a felony by telling him to lie to congress. >> let's go to the relationship between special counsel's office and the department attorney general's office, rosenstein's office. here is the update of the back

and forth in the buzzfeed story. lawyers discussed the statement internally of the statement that was made from buzzfeed. in the advance stage of these talks, deputy attorney general's office called to inquire if the special counsel plan any kind of response. is it proper for the justice department to interact in that way, are you going to put a statement in this? >> i imagine so. this is a major article because in its basis. >> they had to do it for two reasons, one is this triggers impeachment immediately and the second part is the lead everies. as soon as i read this story, i

want to know who are the two law enforcement officials because we heard nothing from the mueller's team at all. >> could it be members of the fbi? >> i doubt it. as soon as i read it, i had skepticism about it. the entire congress is going to intern say we need to see everything you got because we have to pursue impeachment. that had to come out. >> that statement was designed to protect the investigatimpeac banned. >> it would stop everything. the mueller's investigation, spent most of the day trying to refute stories. >> i want to make one point, i can't speak to the under lining facts, we don't know who buzzfeed's sources are. the journal practice that they follow here is clearly outside

the norms, the e-mail in the washington post story showed that when they went to the special counsel's office for comment, they did not say exclusively we are about to report the special counsel's office uncovered the fact that donald trump told michael cohen to lie. they did not really aggressively push back on it. how could you print a story that says the special counsel uncover this under lining crime without doing that. buzzfeed was trans importaparent they are reporting. >> exactly. >> we know from the late reporting before he passed away on the trump relationship. is there any chance that there is even apart a former fbi or

people associated with the fbi who may have talked to buzzfeed reporters? >> i can imagine it these days. remember under sessions, sessions went directly towards flushing out all leads. we see several fbi agents lose their job or tried by that. i doubt it. it is suicidal to do that for your career. i don't know what would be gained. it does not mean it did not happen or whatever. i thought it was odd when i read it. who would this be because we see them being such a tight shift. >> last question, we are out of time. we know will farrell received similar information that he declined to use. was it a story that was marketed out to other reporters that maybe buzzfeed took. >> what's striking is that more than 36 hours after the buzzfeed

record, no other major news organization matched the story. that's struggling. >> we are out of time. ben smith, they're standing by their story and they reconfirmed their information. gabriel sherman and clint watts, thank you guys so much. more after the break. more after the break ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪

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see our leaders in washington reach some type of agreement and compromise. i do think the president gets cut today from moving in that direction after weeks from both sides just ignoring each other and a lot of bickering and pettiness. it is not credible. >> did you know the president says i am shutting down the government, i own the shutdown, i am proud to carry the mantle and he shuts the government down. that's that. >> it takes two to tangle. >> there is no tangle here. >> welcome back to "am joy." >> we are default in our politics and political coverage that does seem to seek an explanation for all things of two sides to every argument to achieve balance. it is not just the president and his party are keeping the government closed and harming millions of people in the

process to force democrats give into trump's demand, fund the wall that mexico is supposed to pay for. no, no, the answer has to be that both sides are to blame. immediately after donald trump proposed his deal to end the government shutdown in exchange for $5.7 billion of your tax dollars for his wall. it was characterized as a compromise and offer even a concession to democrats. the ball has been passed to con depressi congressional democrats to compromise and return so hundreds of thousands of workers are impacted by the shutdown who could not go back to work. >> president trump has been at the white house everyday working and waiting and trying to make a deal. bending and compromising and offering solutions. they not only disrespect him,

they sometimes don't even show up. >> joining me now is author, eric bowhler and our contributor for nbc news and a former consultant. thank you guys all very much. eric, yesterday in speaking with former congressman carlos, he went right to the bolt side when i spoke to him. the media has more less gone back to. "the washington post" calling on the democrats to compromise and saving daca, the dreamers. how does it happen every time? >> it is interesting, we are in the 30 days. the first week i thought it was good, trump announced, this is my shutdown and i am proud of it and i am going to take ownership of it. i thought the press did a better

job. as they drag on, they went back to the obama's script where they have two sides doing and dancing and we'll come to a deal. republicans were ready to do a deal before trump told them. read all the shutdown stories. there is no mention that a deal was ready to be done before fox news shut the government down. >> i think it drags on, the pressure to do both sides is growing and now after trump yesterday, new york times front age offers a compromise, right? he's just like obama and bush, he's going to work with democrats. this is fantasy. >> there is the article right there. this is "the washington post" make the deal. that is not directed at donald trump who ended daca and tps. this is like -- he's the one getting the compromise for saying okay, i took your wallet, i will give you back your

wallet. it is unbelievable to me this is where we whine up and where we whine up. >> and what part of this is being left out is that trump negotiates in bad faith. he operates in bad faith. one important thing to note that just because he offered this deal, even if democrats were to take this bad deal, we don't know trump would standby this deal because he has a history of not standing by deals before. it speaks to your point he made earlier there was a deal, there was a bipartisan deal at the beginning. >> yep. >> and expectation was that trump was going to sign it. he blindsided mitch mcconnell when he did not. the notion just because trump says something, he lies thousands of time on the record. whs on the

record. >> the media still defaults to he's just another sort of george w. bush. we have the spectacle which prompted a viral hashtag of a freshman member of congress, chasing mitch mcconnell around looking for him, jeff amerimerk and other democrats all jumped in all trying to make a point. the person that's holding the government closed is mitch mcconnell. he can put a bill on the floor, one of the eighth that's been passed in the house. he's saying he's only putting on the floor the bill that donald trump wants. how is it that democrats get the own of being the one to reopen the government by compromising. >> by the way, i appreciate your exchange with the congressman yesterday. i thought you were forceful and

asked the right question about narrative here. >> the public is not full by this. we should really under line that that in all of the polling so far, the public overwhelmingly blames trump, not the democrats for the shutdown. some kind of message is getting through when trump says i will own this, the people believed him. that's the first thing. the second thing is mitch mcconnell is being inconsistent with himself. initially he says i am not going to bring anything to the floor that can't get through the house and get the president's signature. now he's taking this trump's package and packaging it, all right, i will do the bidding for the president. he's just president trump's agent on the floor of the senate now, not much more than that, third, i think the case for saying there is a compromise here is that trump is taking back two things he did already. he wrecked president obama's

daca program and he wrecked the temporary protected status program. that looks like a compromise, as rod brownstein noting, this is like hostage. first, i will take it and i will give back temporarily of what i took away from before. if you put a big dreamers' deal of 1.1 million, maybe we can start saying whether there is movement here. then he comes back this morning saying let's be nice to each other and crashes pelosi as radical. it raises the point that it had been suggested, how could you take him seriously as wanting to make any concession at all. >> that's a very good point by

e.j., you can't take him seriously. democrats are for immigration and reform. they tried to do it but republicans didn't want to doit. it is between donald trump and the far right of his party. he seems to have a direct debate with anne coulter. maybe he's bored or stressed, he's been tweeting up a storm this morning. all of these tweets boil down to this one, this is a whole stream going after nancy pelosi and the democrats. i am still trying to do my state of the union, you won't let me. this is the one that really boils down to. this is one of the tweets this morning. no, amnesty is not apart of my offer. it is a three-year extension of daca. amnesty will be used only on a much bigger deal whether on immigration or something else. like wise there will be no big push to remove the 11 million plus people who are here but be careful nancy. that sounds like a threat to do

further harm, if you don't give me this wall, i am going to deport more people but also a promise to a specific person and coulter who has also been tweeting up a storm with every single tweet having amnesty in it. it seems to me, kirk, tell me if i am wrong, mitch mcconnell is at the mercy of donald trump. donald trump is at the mercy of anne coulter. >> how is that not true? >> that's exactly true. remember there was a deal, it was not just a deal, it passed the senate unanimously, somehow in the coverage we lose site of the fact that democrats win the house, they only control one-half, one-third of the government. all of the stories and coverage and this gets prolonged and dragged out that's somehow missed. there was a deal with sean

hannity and anne coulter -- we saw the same thing played out the last 24 hours. he announced what he calls a deal but it is not. anne coulter loses her mind on twitter and we wake up this morning, a different donald trump is tweeting something different. how can anybody possibly expect to negotiate with anybody. that prospect should terrify all of us. >> i am not sure if it is co at this point. with the logic on each side, the white house correspondent for pbs news was in a meeting on saturday with mulvaney and mike pence, they talked about, to me they seem to be telegraphing to the media the strategy. let me play a little bit of what she says coming out there. >> jared kushner says quote, "i think the president feels like

the country is tired of posturing on both sides. they think it is democrats' fault that people don't get paid. >> i think in a way, jennifer kushner used to own the observer. if donald trump puts out anything that looks like a bill that democrats could theoretically vote on, the eye sorrow would shift to the democrats. while i didn't see very many stories of the media chasing down mitch mcconnell and asking him what's the reason why he's not putting these on the floor, you will see a drum beat of media people of democrats. why would you not vote on the president's compromise? they get that is the way the media works. >> i don't understand why it took jared and the white house four weeks into this. it is obvious going from day one, these people can't get a paycheck and things like that. the whole larger point of the

white house and trump depending of the right wing media and fox news. the mainstream media is saying that, too. >> everyone will be honing democrats. the larger point of trump caving to the media, if you watch fox news, they're not even excited about it. they were way more historical about benghazi and hillary's e-mails. they don't like to play defense. they feel they have to do it. it is not a burning desire. >> they don't want to see through steel barrier? >> the idea that fox nation can't sleep at night over the shutdown is totally bizarre and a disconnect. >> go ahead, ed. >> i want to say to quote an earlier republican, trump profits from the soft bigotry of low expectations and people give him. if he puts out something that vaguely resemble sort of/kind of

a proposal, he gets more credit than any other presidents get because the expectation of him is down to zero. >> that's been his whole life. that's how he operated. >> he understands that and the people around him certainly understands that. they are late to the party often but they get to the party and they push down these messaging. i want to make a point, one of the things the media is not talking about is trump is making it seems like if you build this wall, it is magically going to be built and it happens over night. including a church and people are already and some people's land would be impacted. they are preparing to sue the federal government. so this could be held up in the courts forever. >> and if we can go back to curt, the key decision is used

to create on the right, talking about the confiscation of private land by the private government. now we have the land is confiscated from private owners is mainly from texas. is there any outrage on the right over the prospect of long-term, taking their land building a steel barrier. >> there is only one republican that i see is the congressman from texas. i wish donald trump will listen to him who says the border wall won't work and it is a terrible idea and i won't holdup in court. the rest republican party, can you imagine, joy, what they would say if barack obama, the big bad government is going to use its power and take your land. they would lose their mind. it is collective scienilence on right right now. >> eric and e.j. and curt will

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that's how xfinity makes tv... simple. easy. awesome. if the president directed michael cohen to lie to congress then that's a clear case of participating in perjury and obstruction of justice and he should resign. if he does not resign, he should be impeached. >> the house is going to have

little choice of this is going other than the start of impeachment proceedings. >> if the facts are truth, this is obstruction of justice. it is an impeachable offense. buzzfeed received a bomb shell report that trump directed michael cohen to lie to congress. the validity of that report is in question. so now, has the impeachment lost its steam, joining me now is congresswoman, maxine water from california. good morning. >> good to be with you, joy. >> congressman, you have been calling for donald trump's impeachment before it was a thing. a thing that was being done by other democrats in the house of representatives.

the buzz feed story seems to accelerated that direction. do you feel that now the special counsel's reputation some part of the story has cooled it down? >> not so much. i think when we take a look at what mueller says, he did not say it is an absolute lie. it is absolutely not true. the way he framed it, it made it sound like there is some problems with the way buzzfeed did it but it did not close out the possibility of what buzzfeed is saying has a lot of truth to it. we have to wait until it unfolds. i am pleased that people are having the courage to say the word impeachment. i have talked about it for a long time, i think it is inevitable. everything that i have seen about this president whether it was what i have seen with collusion or obstruction of

justice or with his lies or with so many things that he has done and a certain things he qualifies for impeachment and if it takes him longer and if they are waiting on mueller to give them permission, okay, that's fine. the fact the matter is this president should be impeached. >> a lot of people are now starting to question that part of what you said, the fact that democrats are waiting on mueller in order to have this sort of shield, i will read you a piece of it in "the atlantic," the most serious allegation against trump is he's attacking the bedrock of american democracy. what you heard from leadership, this is what hoyer said before the and after the buzzfeed

story. >> i think the impeachment talk right now is a distraction. we'll have to see what the mueller's report says. >> sir, what's your reaction that the president asked michael cohen to lie in front of congress? >> i don't want to get into that right now. >> if the bigger point of what donald trump is doing to the fiber of the country and if there are other than the monument clause or other things you talked about it on the show for over a year now are the reasons why impeachment inquiry should be opened. >> i don't know for sure, there are several things. we have the consultants and the p pu pundents and all of them saying don't talk about the impeachment. his supporters are going to be there for him no matter what. we know what percentage that is. so waiting for mueller to come

to get permission based on his report to do this is not something that i agree with. if the leadership and others have decided what they want to do, that's what they are going to do but i have to tell you, i believe in the final analysis, they can only come to that conclusion. this attorney general's report is absolutely correct. the russians have hacked into democratic national committee. they undermined our election system. they have done everything to basically undermine our democracy and this president disregards our constitution whatever his relationship with putin, he'll not criticize him and as a matter of fact, he defends him. he has ignored all of the advices that's been given to him. don't call him or don't congratulate him when he wins an election. many people think that the president certain linos what he's doing and they have implied

that he's working with putin for whatever reasons and others are saying unwittingly that he's now compromised. i don't know what the case is but i know this, this president is not good for this country or this democracy. he's using the power of the presidency for himself and for whatever relationships he's developing with russia. many people think it has to do with money, with development and money laundering may be involved in this. it is enough there. enough has unfolded about this president that he and manafort and flynn and the rest of them are willing to align themselves with the enemy in order to enhance their ability literally to make money. that's what it is all about. >> before we lose our time with you, congressman. i want to give you a chance to weigh in on donald trump's of what he's calling a compromise offer on immigration in which he

would essentially give back the daca. >> let me say this. that so-called offer is not a good offer. the courts have already rendered a decision to obtain daca. he wants $5.7 billion and we are resisting that because we believe that the border should be secured. we believe there is technology and other kinds of things that can be done increasing the judges who are dealing with those people who are applying to get into the united states. we think that you know supporting the children better and getting them better care, all of that, we are willing to support and we believe in border security and comprehensive and immigration reform and not some

phony, fake wall that this president promised in the election without even having the information and the data or the analyze to support that. we have to be tough and say to all of those out there who are suffering. we are fighting hard to get this government open. we are so sadden and sorry that people are suffering. their efforts have been made by paypal and others to help federal employees. we are going to do everything we can to support you and get this government open and this president must be impeached. >> thank you, congressman maxine waters, thank you very much. we really appreciate your time. >> thank you. coming up, donald trump's television lawyer only says the second craziest thing on tv this weekend. wait until you hear who out did rudy giuliani, that's next. dy gt

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it may be an attorney/client privilege, i have no knowledge of it. >> one of the things he pled guilty to is lying to congress. >> well, which time? he's pleading guilty to get a reduced sentence, he's saying what the prosecutor wants him to say. >> and so what if he talked about it? >> if it is the true. >> donald trump's attorney, rudy giuliani. this time on michael cohen's testimony on congress. he's admitting it is possible that trump spoke to cohen before his congressional testimony. i am sorry, i don't mean to laugh. i am not a lawyer but i am sure you can't get a plea deal if you lied and say whatever the prosecutors say. >> every week essentially, rudy

giuliani, gets on tv and confesses another crime. >> exactly. expect him in two weeks to say trump is guilty of everything. >> all right, e.j., let me play you another one, let's play more. rudy giuliani discussed with trump's recollection of the trump tower prok jeject. this one is for you, e.j. >> the thing had peed out a little bit. they sent the letter and they don't know where to sent it. it finally gotten straight oen t and they abandon the project. 2015 or 2016, he's running against 16 people for president of the united states. >> e.j., the allocution that

michael cohen made said the opposite of what rudy giuliani says, it says he continue to after donald trump was running for president. i don't understand a lawyer, a former prosecutor gets on tv and says this. >> well, you know, joy, i do million dollars deal all the the -- million dollars deals all the time so some of them slips my mind. rudy giuliani was a u.s. attorney, a prosecutor, was he telling me i took deals from people that i knew were lying. what was that about? if there is a trial on all of this, i think a whole day of trial will be jurors watching old rudy giuliani's tapes and clips. >> and laughing. >> because the number of times, i mean he's essentially confirming that trump lied through his teeth about doing business with russia in that period. it is just astounding so it is

kind of a shame of what's happening. >> it is incredible to think he's a former attorney. he was a prosecutor. her is our own chuck todd trying to pin down rudy giuliani on the timeline for the trump tower moscow $300 million project. >> the understanding is that they went on throughout 2016, not a lot of them but they were conversations, cannot be sure of the exact date. >> throughout 2016? >> yes, probably up to, could be up to as far as october or november. our asset is covered until the election or any time of that period they could have talked about it. >> i wonder if he realizes that donald trump could be talking about building a tower in mouscw

right up to the election day. >> it is almost like did rudy talk to donald trump at all? this got to be the worse lawyer. he should be barred for being such a terrible lawyer. every time he goes on television, he contradicts himself and not what he said a week ago and in the same conversation, he'll contradict himself. it is insane but it is apart of what they do is throughout so many different things, it is impossible to focus on one point and we all end up going down this path of different tentacles of what's true or what's not. they try to throw so much at you that distracts you from the core truth. rudy is that character. and hopes that we won't return to the actual real question like chuck was asking during the interview.

>> you have the advantage of knowing donald trump because the more serious thing of the allegation here is that the obstruction of justice is ongoi ongoing, this is the allegation and it includes potentially making threats to the family of michael cohen and ostentatiously going after his father-in-law. i want to play on cnn with jake tapper. talk about this. >> if the father-in-law is a criminal and the southern district new york is in the plea wanted him to go to jail and says he's lying, they don't buy the special counsel's approach. >> his father has million millions -- the reason that's important is he may have ties to something called organized crime. >> this is stunning to me, tara,

that you have a former attorney going on television throwing out allegation and trying to tie michael cohen's father to organized crime and throwing out, well, he's ukrainian, well, the judge is mexican. is this how donald trump operates? >> i absolutely think so. we all know that donald trump is a bully. we all know that he uses twitter to communicate specifically and directly to people. we know that the television is his other means of doing so and rudy giuliani is following that same pattern of behavior. >> it is scary. it is stunning and something else to be investigated by congress. i imagine the mueller investigation is already covering these things. one of the things we do know is they are looking at obstruction of justice. we know that. there is little coming at it of the investigation besides the

indictmen indictments. this is how trump operates and rudy giuliani decides that no matter what, he's team trump all the way. if he was not willing to do it, trump would not have him around. >> e.j., this gets into serious territory. michael cohen is no stranger to threatening people. he used to do it for donald trump. when we get into a place where a lawyer is on television throwing out their breath and the president of the united states is tweeting them out. we were laughing about rudy giuliani's silliness and the way he speaks. what do you think? >> i think it is appalling. donald trump pursued the following strategy, don't look at my crimes. look over here at someone else. and throw out all kinds of charges of whatever you can put your hands-on simply to slime

somebody else as you say to intimidate the witness. that's what he used hillary clinton for throughout from the moment he announced his candidacy for president. yes, you can't see this in any other way but try to pressure cohen saying boy, are we going to make your life a mess if you keep on doing this. i think it is too late for that now. cohen committed himself. it is appalling to see him do that. >> lastly, curt, we hat bruce wallace this morning on why they don't reopen the government. he would do it tomorrow. you can do it tomorrow. >> could donald trump survive a show down with anne coulter, reopening the government without having secure american tax dollars to build the wall? >> clearly he does not think so. if he thought it was possible, he would have done it by now. he allowed himself to hold

hostage by coulter. how the town was drastically different than what he said 24 hours ago. there is no question he does not feel like he can lose that base of support because he knows if he loses anne coulter and shanahanty, thatsean hannity. >> i am married to someone who's from ukraine, she's ukrainian, the idea that the president's lawyer would go on national television and say that being from ukraine make you possible and complicit in organized crime. that's the most ridiculous thing i have heard. >> especially donald trump hired manafort. >> and own ties to russian's organized crime. >> kurt and e.j. and tara, thank

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this is your first glimpse of the war isn't it? >> this is my first glimpse of the war. >> do you find it depressing? >> yes. it symbol sizes the divisions of mankind. >> have you seen anything so disasterous as this? >> not really. the divisions that continue to exist but when it symbolized an actual wall it becomes very depressing. >> that extraordinary piece of video to his reaction to the berlin wall feels strikingly relevant as the president holds

the government hostage over the $5 million demanding to lock out nonwhite immigrants, a wall the american far right is demanding in which trump promised mexico would pay for. we have congresswoman nor ton here with us. we found that piece of sound amazing. i thought i knew a lot about dr. king. when donald trump is asked about the morality or immorality of wi building a wall i want to play you a piece of what he said about that. >> walls are not immoral. they will save many lives and stop drugs from pouring into our country. >> your thoughts on that real sharp between what dr. king said and what donald trump did. >> well, dr. king and trump were

talking about the same thing, a wall which was a bar jrier to s keep out. we don't want to see you. that's immoral. of the democrats have never been against walls of all kinds. there are walls and technology and many ways to make sure that our country in fact has barriers. a lot of us are talking past each other when we use words like walls because that means a concrete structure that says none of you are welcomed here. that's part of the problem we are having in the congress today. we don't have a president who can bring us together so that we are all talking about the same thing for goodness sake. >> and i want to play you the vice president of the united states, mike pence that had things to say. here is what mike pence had to say about donald trump and king's legacy. >> the hearts and minds today

are thinking a lot about it being the weekend where we remember the life and work of martin luther king jr. one of my favorite quotes is now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. you think of how he changed america. he inspired it through the edge is lative process to become a more perfect union. that's what president trump is calling on the congress to do. >> your thoughts congresswoman. >> it was on point until he got to the trump part of course. we would ask the president to do just that. we ought to be glorifying in which king accomplished 50 years ago. he indeed lead the country to three civil rights acts. it didn't have anybody like me to represent them in congress and now we have going for a

vote. we have got to remember on king's birthday the progress we have made. look what happened in charlottesville. what does president pence say about equating the racists who walked to charlottesville by saying there was of course on both sides fault? what does the president say about that? what does he say about steve king and the congress, the body on which i serve. the president has not had one word to say. i'm pleased that my counter parts, the republicans joined us in a resolution to condemn steve

king who praised a white nationalism. on martin luther king's birthday it is very important to remember these terrible cracks and what we thought we had achieved. >> i want to show you a photo. this is a photo of you. this was back in 1966. i know you were part of the committee. there it is. looking fly. i love that dress. at that time id dit feel like the country was sort of caught between hope and dispaiespair. given what we are seeing now, where are you between hope and despair? >> precisely because of that picture. we lived in a country where there was over racism. >> yes. >> so i have to be with hope. that's why i'm with 2020.

i'm with hope because the democrats took over the house of representative. >> thank you congresswoman on this premlk day. before we go, the second an verse i have of trump's presidency has been kind of a downer. here is a look at a happier time ten years ago today. >> we remain a young nation but in the words of skcripture the time has come to set aside childish things. the time has come to reaffirm and to choose our better history, to carry forward that precious gift, that noble idea passed on generation to generation. the god given promise that all are equal, all are free and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness. >> tech: at safelite autoglass

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get real relief ♪ [ dobaxter.ng ] it's bedtime. peace of mind should never be out of reach. [ voice command beep ] xfinity home. xfinity home connects you to total home security you can control from anywhere on any device. and it protects you with 24/7 professional monitoring. i guess we're sleeping here tonight. xfinity home. simple. easy. awesome. call, go online or demo in an xfinity store today. that's our show for today. up next alex is here. of. >> you know what i love about the clip of president obama and his first inaugural address i remember how cold it was. it did not matter because it was so inspiring. >> it was. >> it was just an incredible day. >> before i go can i pick up our amazing intern who found