ital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. and last year, i earned $36,000 in cash back. which i used to offer health insurance to my employees. what's in your wallet? welcome to "kasie dc." i'm in for peter alexander, who is in for kasie, who is under the weather. right now super blood moon and things are extra weird. the president moving to end the longest squlou longest shutdown in history, offering a deal for daca. we will find out what it will take to reopen the government as hundreds of thousands of federal workers strug togle to make end

meet. and after the bombshell report that michael cohen said the president ordered him to lie to congress, there is a reckoning around the mueller investigation. but, first, it was two years ago president trump was sworn into office. "the new york times" wrote at the time -- - well two years later on this day after the longest shutdown the government has ever seen, we're asking ourself the same question. the government has been shut down for nearly 5% of the time president trump has been in office. the democratic response to his immigration proposal unveiled yesterday suggests this logjam is nowhere near broken. in his speech, the president offered to extend protection from deportation temporarily for some undocumented immigrants, including so-called dreamers. in exchange for the $5.7 billion

he wants for his border wall. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, he promised to vote on the plan as it drew criticism from both democrats and conservative figures alike. with that, which is a lot, we would like to welcome my panel, white house bureau chief of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst philip rucker. former republican congressman from indiana, david mcintosh. and senior advise are for move on.org and msnbc contributor. thank you all for being here. we want to get a take a full month after the shutdown began, phil, i'll start with you, are we in any terms closer to what the president did and white house said, hey, we're willing to negotiate. we went forward with some change in the equation. they say the democrats are the problem here. is there any real stalemate in this? >> and democrats in return say we're not going to renegotiate anything about immigration

policy until the government reopens immediately so we're at a standstill, stalemate. it would be very quick i think for either side to reopen the government and reopen bill it's democrats were to give ground on the border wall or if trump were to lessen his demand for the border wall in a way that satisfied democrats. but right now both sides are digging in and neither side feels an incentive to truly compromise and negotiate on a bipartisan solution. >> i want to pick your brain in a moment on some of the behind the scenes we know about, the interm battle in the white house over what the president did offer up. congressman, first, your take on this. the republican take here is the president's playing ball. he's willing to play. but is this legit? he's the one who revoked, tried to rescind daca. how he's saying i will give them back, is that really a negotiation? >> sure it is. and he's got some people on the right complaining about it. my group, the club for growth, doesn't take a position on any of this. in fact, we think the underlying bill is terrible.

but the fight is about this wall. i think you step back -- >> is the fight about this wall or the shutdown? >> i was going to say, it's really a fight about power. will nancy pelosi, with the new majority in the house, have more power or less power in dealing with the president? she's saying i'm not going to negotiate with you until i absolutely have to. and so he put something on the table. no, not even going to think about it. >> is there new pressure on the democrats now, nancy pelosi tweeted and democrats turned down my offer before they even heard it. is there real pressure on the democrats now? they're winning sort of america's view on this that the president is to blame. but will that change now with the president offering something up? >> i don't think so. we have to remember donald trump is an unpopular president. he's one of the presidents who has not averaged above 50% in his first term and he's going into his third year, and that says a lot. this wall is not popular.

clearly the shutdown is not popular. you mentioned in the top, this is two years, or today is 30 days of the shutdown and in two years, he shut down the government three times, having republicans in the house and in the senate. so you have to think it must be deliberate, right? and he basically is holding 800,000 people hostage for a wall. and here's the thing, there is a bipartisan bill right now. all mitch mcconnell has to do it put it to the floor, a bill he had already passed. >> clear lirks thatly, that's n mcconnell has in store this week. >> right. let me show you something that said the presidents and republicans concede on the wall demand, this would effectively be a fatal blow to the party. take a listen to this former congresswoman. >> i believe if the president backs away from border security, his border wall, he will lose the presidency and republicans will have a really hard time. i think that's the reason why

we're not getting counterofficers. speak ploersy elosi is moving a opportunity to say, i will give you $5.7 billion but i want daca, i want temporary protective status. i want to make sure we have dreamers taken care of. i want to make sure we have families who can stay together at the border. she can ask for anything and at least start there. >> this is why i feel the president sticks to the $5.7 billion. he knows he can't go back. initially he said he was okay with what had been voted on. that's why senator mitch mcconnell put it up for a vote several weeks back. now having heard from ann coulter, sean hannity, rush limbaugh, he can't go backward. he has to try to go forward and say let's put other things on the table and throw balls in the air, right? >> president trump used this wall as so consequential as determining whether he can win re-election in 2020. >> is this about re-election? >> coalition. you talk to white house advisers, i'm sure they tell you about the same thing, the president is only thinking about

protecting the american people, he's only thinking about securing the border but he's also thinking a lot about politics, he's watching the polls and feeling the heat. he knows if he backs down from that wall, his coalition could crumble in a way that could be perilous for him politically. >> and today among other things, this is not amnesty because there has been criticism from ann koemter, among others. in the tweet he said amnesty will be used only on a much bigger deal. that doesn't seem to make the conservatives satisfied. their fear is amnesty and now he says amnesty is what i'm up for. what do they make of that? >> the hard-koranty immigration folks will be troubled by that. although we ran against him in the primaries found out that was only part of his coalition. i think the interesting thing here, back to who's going to be running things in washington is the immediate blame goes to the president, he acknowledges that.

but in the end i think it's dangerous for the democrats because it erodes their main promise, which is we'll get back to business as usual. and what they're showing is we'll hold up everything in order to show we can win this bottle. >> carin, mark warner said this morning this is a starting point. is this a real starting point? it seems like as a democrat, your feet are locked in. >> though he also said let's open up the government, let's end this shutdown. here's the thing, donald trump is not an honest broker. we've been here before, about a year ago, 11 months ago. the democrats, which i didn't agree with it at the time, gave him -- the president $25 billion for -- for daca, and he turned that down because, they said, it was amnesty. the far right told him you can't do this. it's amnesty. >> so democrats say yes to permanent protections? >> no, we're at a different time now. 11 months has passed by. november 6th hand. the american people who a majority of them came out and voted said we do not want this. we do not want this border wall.

we want you to hold this president accountable. he should not be holding 800,000 people hostage for this border wall. it should just not be happening. >> what i hear coreen saying, whatever the president's offer, we're not going to do it. whether we liked it before or not. we will not accept anything from donald trump. >> why not open up the government and then have the conversation? 800,000, people who cannot pay for rent and day care. let's not stop forget -- >> the government -- >> let's pause for a second here now. >> a president who's historically unpopular, under investigation. democrats said yes to him a year ago. and he backed out. >> let me interrupt, because the debate -- >> you're saying never. >> i will ask you guys to pause for a second. phil, let me ask you, there's a

debate not too dissimilar from this one happening inside the west wing between jared kushner and steven miller, the allegiances inside the west wing good what president should even have offered up at the time. break that down. fafrpgl frankly, there was a lot of discussion maybe there would have been more clout if the president offered daca for all eligible for daca, not just the 700,000 who are recipients of it. what is behind the scenes? >> extending the daca protection for the so-called dreamers has been a big priority of jared kushner's for some time, as well as others in the white house. steven miller has been the opponent of that internally, the one sort of keeping the president's policies the most hardlined on immigration and an a dispute broke out over what the president would offer yesterday and his remarks for the temporary extension of daca protections for dreamers. >> i want to keep talking about this sort of moment in this shutdown right now. it started the last several

days. it's hard to believe how quickly this stuff gos. this fight over the state of the union, remember nancy pelosi said either you cancel the thing or wait until it's over. can you do it in writing if you like. heck, can you do it from the oval office. it's still supposed to take place officially january 29th. nancy pelosi obviously raised all sorts of concerns about that right now. the president today finally reacted to that and said basically we haven't made up our mind yet on the state of the union. is there any better sense -- i will remind folks at home this is the same week the president canceled her trip to afghanistan to visit with the troops right now. phil, to you, is there any better sense of what the white house thinking is, when this thing will take place? what they're planning to do? does this turn into a rally? does he do it from the oval office? what happens? >> the president said he's considering a lot of options and there are allies saying, look, give the state of the union address. it doesn't have to be in the congress. it could be out in the country somewhere. he's a showman. i think he's going to try to do something big and get attention and try to use his bully pulpit

as the president to drive his agenda forward on the shutdown. whether it's the state of the union at the capitol january 129th or whether he goes to some rally somewhere or does an event with angel moms or with border patrol officers or finds some creative way to deliver that speech, i think he's going to create a television moment one way or the other. >> does this thing have to end before the president delivers his state of the union? >> that's a good question. in the end congress really benefits for having him come there and give that speech. the constitution only requires him to send a report. so he could do it in writing. but i think it helps the country to know -- >> i think we all agree there's no way the president delivers this thing in writing, right? >> no. >> it happens somewhere. >> he will do a beach. >> this is a man made for television, built on television. >> look, donald trump can end this shutdown any moment. he really can. all he has to do is call mitch mcconnell and say put the vote to the floor and let's get this done and that's how -- that's how he's going to get his state

of the union, if ends the shutdown and not keep 800,000 people hostage. >> ironically, mitch mcconnell said he would only put something on the floor if senate democrats and the president agreed. about to put this on the floor and it's clear the democrats don't agree. this has been a very interesting day. i'm in for my friend kasie tonight but we're also in a pretty nice studio. this is the home on sundays to "meet the press." the studio we usually host "kasie dc" in suffered a serious fire last night so they've been kind enough to host us here tonight. we're not the only ones affected by this. chris wallace of "fox news sunday" had to relocate his show too as a result of that today. we should quickly say thank you to the washington fire dept, building staff, technical staff for all of their hard work. this was not the kind of day expected here at nbc. we're grateful nobody was hurt, minus the studio. when we continue, the president actually praises the special counsel as the office casts a shadow of doubt on that buzzfeed story. we will dig into the latest

reporting on what the president did or didn't tell michael cohen to do. later tonight, i'm joined by the president senator james lankford of oklahoma. i'll talk to him about whether the story and controversy surrounding it changes the calculus for his party. as we go to the break, the tit for tat over whether there will be a state of the union before the year is through. you're watching "kasie dc." >> the white house is striking back at a tip for tat. >> tit for tat. >> dtit for tat. tit for tat. ouse? -i know, it's not much, but it's home. right, kids? -kids? -papa, papa! -[ laughs ] -you didn't tell me your friends were coming. -oh, yeah. -this one is tiny like a child. -yeah, she is. oh, but seriously, it's good to be surrounded by what matters most -- a home and auto bundle from progressive. -oh, sweetie, please, play for us. -oh, no, i couldn't. -please. -okay. [ singing in spanish ]

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are you 100% confident that the president never once asked michael cohen to do anything but tell the truth to congress? >> 100% certain of that. >> can you share what communication the president had with michael cohen about trump tower moscow? >> before the investigation, during the period that they're looking at, they did have conversations about it. the conversations lasted throughout parts of 2016. the president is not sure exactly when they ended. probably up to -- could be up to as far as october, november. our answers cover until the election. so any time during that period they could have talked about it. >> that was president trump's lawyer rudy giuliani this morning reaccountiting to the bombshell report from buzzfeed that has since been disputed by the special counsel directing michael cohen, his former longtime lawyer, to lie to

congress about negotiations to build a trump tower in moscow. in an extraordinary response by robert mueller's office, spokesman peter carr released a statement that says -- buzzfeed's description of specific statements to the special counsel's office and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office regarding michael cohen's congressional testimony are not accurate. buzzfeed's reporters said one more today they stand by their reporting. but when buzzfeed's leopold reached out to carr, he declined to comment in part because leopold made no reference to the special counsel's office or to evidence it uncovered. joining our discussion to break it all down, national investigative reporter for "the washington post" and nbc news contributor carol leonnig. thank you guys all for being with us. carol, i want to start with you quickly. we're going to start with the buzzfeed backlash, bombshell, whatever you want to call it.

but first about what rudy giuliani did say today. he made significant news in this conversation with chuck this morning, where he said among other things, that the conversations about trump tower moscow, that the president was engaged in, went all the way through 2016. previously, we only knew those conversations had taken place through june of 2016. the fact of the matter is this was on the president's mind in some form all the way until the election. why is that so important? >> i'm not entirely sure that rudy really means that he has evidence that the president -- i'm sorry, the candidate donald trump was discussing it all the way until november. what he said is it's possible because i know our questions from mueller go all the way to that time. i think it's really important in this situation to look at the pleadings in this case and see that michael cohen had ail cuted aft after talking to rings of prosecutors in the southern district of new york and special counsel's office that he was conferring with donald trump about this up until he became the nominee, republican nominee,

which could have been summer of 2016. i'd like to stick with what's in the actual court record. i think that's a good place to be. >> and we also heard from rudy giuliani today on this topic saying he wouldn't rule out the idea that the president and michael cohen had spoken in some form about the testimony. while it's been disputed now that he said he told michael cohen to lie before congress, of course, rudy giuliani says that's not true. special counsel's office said the buzzfeed article is not accurate. but giuliani couldn't rule out there were conversations. is that in any way problematic the two were speaking in some form? >> it could potentially be problematic based on what they were speaking about but the fact just that they had a relationship and were speaking doesn't seem to raise any -- any red flags. i imagine mueller's investigation has determined more than we know publicly right now the substance of those conversations, and we're going to have to wait and see in that report what those were all about. the relationship, we know trump and cohen had an intimate

lawyer/client relationship for more than a decade. >> perhaps the best game is patience as much as inpatience across this country. carol, let me ask you about what "the washington post" reports about this initial buzzfeed reporting. he said carr told others woe have discouraged others from proceeding with the story if he knew that the special counsel directed him to lie or claimed the special counsel learned about this through interviews with trump organization witnesses, internal company e-mails and texts. that's according to people with the matter. so did buzzfeed misstep in the way it reached out to peter carr, the special counsel's office here, that perhaps could have avoided this whole situation from blowing up? >> i mean, i think everyone who's a reporter is gasping at that little piece of information because in the high-wire act we're all engaged in, writing about one of the most sensitive issues, whether or not the president was involved in a conspiracy, whether or not the

president was subordinating perjury, that's a huge claim to make. in that high-wire act it's incumbent on us to stress test that reporting, put it against any person we can who has a reason to dispute it. if you don't give yourself an opportunity to hear a foe or even an evidence-gatherer say you're wrong, buddy, then you're doing yourself out of a valuable reporting material. and i want to say one more thing, if i can, i don't think anyone should be cutting other reporters. it makes me uncomfortable, but this is an era in which we never want to be wrong ever, but in this era, we don't want to feed the fake news claim when all of us are sleepless and working tirelessly to get it right. >> is it striking to either of you, and i ask both of you from "the washington post" as reporters at the table, this is really the only time, first time the special counsel's office came out and said that is not accurate, which raises questions

about all of the other things we've seen attributed over the course of these many months, phil. >> there's been an extraordinary amount of reporting over the last year plus about the russian investigation, about trump and his various contacts that the special counsel's office has not disputed. so the fact they would dispute this speaks to how egregious the buzzfeed reporting oversight was. but it also speaks to how there hasn't been another example that bad in the last year. so a lot of the -- >> the vast majority of the other reporting has been pretty close to something. >> david, let me ask you, congresswoman, one thing that's striking me is all of a sudden you heard president trump in a way celebrating the special counsel's office here, thanking them for coming forward like this. >> yep, that's right. you only heard criticism of him before. i think this put the special counsel in a real bind. part of the trump defender's strategy is make him look like he's out to get trump and not a

trustworthy prosecutor. if that report is not accurate, not correcting it would have hurt him, hurt mueller i think. so they did the right thing, and it's good the president acknowledged that. >> and corinnareen, isn't there lesson for democrats. we heard from congressman castro and gillibrand, even after the fact, we have to get to the bottom of this, is there a risk for democrats to celebrate things so far in advance before actually knowing what the heck things s thi things are? >> let me say this, it doesn't surprise me democrats jumped on this. the past two years when republicans had control of congress, they didn't really put forth a legitimate oversight on this president. what we had to really look towards was the media, who did incredible, excellent reporting on what was going on. and that's where we were learning all of our information. now that's changed a bit because congress -- well, we have the majority in the house, so now things have changed.

so they have oversight. there will still be great reporting i'm sure but now oversight and democrats who can actually dig in a little bit and see what's going on. >> the fact of the matter is our friend at axios is reporting tonight how about a lot of freshmen democrats are bamminging at this idea of focusing on impeachment right now. rashida tlaib made news recently. there are a lot of younger democrats saying wait a second, let's hold on for a second. >> i think they want to see, like i said, an investigation. let's ask the questions. we know michael cohen will be going forward -- >> is that because a lot will come from districts where there are former trump districts, frankly, districts right along the line where they know they're speaking for a wider group of people than the deep blue sfoekz folks? >> many democrats did not run on impeaching donald trump. tlaen on issues. it was really important. and the linchpin was keeping donald trump accountable. but it wasn't -- impeachment wasn't the number one thing.

it was health care. it was the economy. so i can understand why they're going that way. and i think it is fair. i think it is smart to have an oversight because that is what they were elected for, to be an oversight. to be a check and to talk about issues that really matter to the folks that they're representing. >> carol, as our investigative reporter at the table, a lot of people at the end of this day and at the end of this week where we learned about a counterintelligence investigation to determine whether in fact the president was working on behalf of the russians, this was an insane wheek you sort of back up seven days and think how we got here in spite of the buzzfeed story about 72 hours ago. where are we in this investigation? is there any better indication we're nearing a conclusion? >> well, our indication is that the mueller report is in the offing. as we reported a few weeks ago, we expect it possibly as early as february. i'm as interested and impatient as everyone else to find out the evidence that mueller has obtained that's not public yet and, trust me, at "the washington post" there are a ton

of people who are still going to try to find it out before it's actually leaked and/or shared with us as a result at the department of justice. i would like to go back to the buzzfeed item for one more moment. >> yes. >> there's still a mystery out there we have not gotten to the bottom of, which is michael cohen, who drives the president to distraction every time he meets with a prosecutor or gets on a stage, somehow alludes that he shaped his story to congress, who helped him shape his story. did he do it alone? i'm not saying that the president did. obviously mueller already said he doesn't have such evidence. but something hand and there's something else about that moscow tower deal, another piece of the mystery that we still have to get to the bottom of. he said in his ail cushion that hundreds of millions of dollars were on the line if the kremlin backed that tower.

what licensing deal does donald trump have that makes hundreds of millions of dollars? these are big, big targets we need to uncover soon. >> you're right. that's what we're all working on. nice to see you, thank you for being here. carol leonnig, thank you so much. one of the best in this business when can we come back, as t presidential field is taking off, the democrats walk on their back foot. we'll explain. mike pompeo has been in charge 261 days -- off the top of my head -- not really, we will look what's down the stretch in washington. how do you gauge the greatness of an suv? is it to carry cargo... or to carry on a legacy? its show of strength... or its sign of intelligence? in crossing harsh terrain... or breaking new ground? this is the mercedes-benz suv family. greatness comes in many forms. lease the glc 300

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potential candidates -- what do you think about them? >> i'm not worried. bernie will be in his 70s while i'm a supply 6 9d. >> what do you mean by kirsten gillibrand? >> you mean kirsten stole my branned? medicare for all. what a concept. i have been saying that since 1963 when i was running the wells fargo wagon out of my town.

. >> she's so talented. elizabeth warren getting the treatment there on "saturday night live." meanwhile, we're still 22 months away until the next presidential election and white house hopefuls are already on apology tours of sorts. days after announcing a exploratory committee, kelsey gabbert released a statement about the youtube video about offensive statements she made about the lgbtq in the past and also addressed the controversy in an interview this morning. >> i had spoken about my upbringing. i was raised in a very socially conservative household with views and believes and things that i no longer hold today. like most of the country, my views have evolved. >> bernie sanders is also apologizing to women who came forward with claims of sexual harassment and unfair treatment by his staff during the 2016 campaign.

he met with two dozen former staffers who claimed they had been mistreated and he pledged to, quote, do better if and when he enters the 2020 race. elizabeth warren, meanwhile, continues to face scrutiny over her decision to release that dna test showing a small fraction of native-american ancestry, which was the very first question she was asked at a recent event in iowa. and then kirsten gillibrand, who came under scrutiny during her time in the house when she ea earned an a-rating from the nra and had a different posture. >> you said you were a form opponent of giving amnesty to aliens. you said english should be, quote, the official language of the united states. you called for expediting deportation of undocumented immigrants. i know you have different positions today. but if trump immigration positions were racist, were they racist when you held some of those positions as well? >> they certainly were not

empathetic or kind. i did not think about suffering in other people's lives. >> that's just a few of the democrats right now that have already announced. we've got a long way to go, obviously, until 2020. but not that long, frankly. this thing is already under way right now. i guess the question, karine, can these contenders who have to start on the back foot, can they regroup before the opening salvo? >> we have about a year before the first group of voters go out and vote. there lr a lot of candidates who will rise and a lot of candidates that will fall and a lot of twists and turns. this is just the beginning. three months from now it will be different. six months from now it's going to be different. i think they're being smart talking about how they evolved and really talking about it head on and not letting like shaping message for themselves before anybody else does. that's smart. that's like politics 101. and like you said, there are probably 20 other others will will come out whand who knows wt

will be out there for them to talk about. but they will be tested. we will watch how they will build their campaigns and watch their platform in iowa and the other states and see how it goes. >> kamala harris, a name a lot of people will mention. is she yet to announce? phil, what do you make of the damage-control moment for the democrats. regain the spotlight for themselves right now. challenging positions, right, because you're really speaking to the base in some of key states like new hampshire and iowa, and right now a lot of them are doing a lot of explaining, as it were. >> and karine is right there's a year and that's a long time. but the democratic activists, voters in the country are so engaged, they're following this so closely right now, they want somebody who will defeat donald trump and take back the white house and end what they view as a very dangerous chapter in american history. there are so many democratic candidates they are jockeying for attention and to have a debut like kirsten gillibrand where she's immediately on the

defensive to positions she used to hold that are not very emathlete cal to the voters, that's challenging. >> they are issues we're fighting back, center of the conversations. >> and gun rights. >> she's from a rural district. actually language she's used when she's been in iowa as a way of connecting. i used to represent a rural district as well. we could see a departure from this cabinet saying, according to politico, the secretary of state marketplace marketplace marketplace, who confirmed less than a year ago, is considering a run for kansas in 2020. the secretary of state may say i'm pulling the rip cord and getting a seat in my home state. secretary pompeo has not made a final decision but leaders including mitch mcconnell are said to be aggressively wooing hi him. politico also said he met with

high republican strategist ward baker. >> the trump endorsed pack endorsed him for congress. >> what does this say about the white house? this is one of the president's guys. he liked him so much at the cia he brought him in all of the time for the intelligence briefings. >> it would be a loss for the president. he's a great secretary of state. what i think you will see is he will tamp down expectation but not say yes or no for a year or so. they have a very light primary in kansas. >> kansas is a competitive state. this is a place up for grabs in the trump era. >> he could win that hands down and make sure the seat stays in the republican's side. >> what would that mean? >> it's a significant thing he's even willing to entertain this option. he's the secretary of state. that's a high-ranking position. >> he has the president's ear perhaps as much as anybody. >> normally senators try to become secretary of state , not

the other way around. but it indicates marketplace marketplace marketplace is looking for a political future beyond the trump presidency to create an opportunity for himself. i don't know if will he do the run or not but clearly he's thinking beyond this period. >> we thank you all very much for being with us tonight. >> up next, congresswoman val demings became one of two democrats to sit on the house intelligence and judiciary committees, meaning she has a lot of questions for the president. t of questions for the president. and i don't add up the years. but what i do count on, is staying happy and healthy. so, i add protein, vitamins and minerals to my diet with boost®. boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals your body needs. all with guaranteed great taste. the upside- i'm just getting started. boost® high protein be up for life. hey, darryl. would you choose the network rated #1 in the nation by the experts, or the one awarded by the people?

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welcome back to "kasie dc." i'm peter alexander, in for my friend kasie, who's under the weather tonight. joining me now is democratic congresswoman val demings from florida. she's a member of both the house judiciary and intelligence committees. she's joining us now, congresswoman, we appreciate your time. i want to out of the gates ask you a little bit about the news rudy giuliani made in part today. he said on "meet the press" that the negotiations as it related to trump tower in moscow, those conversations went throughout 2016, which would be significant because it's further than the time frame we had been discussing before, which had previously sort of ended at roughly june of 2016. here's what giuliani said earlier today -- >> you said the president is not sure when talks ended. it's your understanding it ended when, in january as michael cohen incorrectly testified to? >> it's our understanding that they went on throughout 2016, there were not a lot of them, but there were conversations.

i can't be sure of the exact dates but the president can remember having conversations with him about it. the president also remembers -- >> throughout 2016? >> yeah, probably up until -- could be as far as october, november. >> could be as far up to october or november. how concerning do you find that revelation to be? >> yes, hi, it's good to be with you. >> thank you. >> look, i'm not really sure who rudy giuliani is really working for. last week -- the president has said and his personal attorney joined him in saying there's no collusion, no collusion, no collusion. and then last week he said, well, no, he never said there was absolutely no collusion. and then today this new revelation that the president was involved in those discussions, it sounds like right up to the election, is just very, very shocking to hear.

but i'll tell you what, as a member of the judiciary commity and now the intelligence committee, we are committed to getting to the bottom of it and getting to the truth. and we will be relentless in our efforts to do that. the american people who have entrusted this responsibility in us as members of congress working on these committees expect it and we're going to keep working until get to the bottom of it. >> and congresswoman, democrats, as you witnessed in the last 48 or so hours, were quick to jump back on the drumbeat of impeachment talk surrounding the president after the buzzfeed report broke. it's since been described as not accurate by the special counsel's office here. did democrats jump the gun? is this something your party needs to be careful about going forward that it doesn't put itself in this position before they have all of the facts? >> let me just say this. i have made a statement before that we're certainly not running to impeachment but we're not running away from it either.

we need to do our jobs. i know when i'm home in the district as i am now and my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, running to some of their constituents who ask about it. for the last two years, we have just seen and witnessed and heard one thing after the other about the russian investigation, about the president's involvement. so it's an issue that will be on the table. we certainly are committed to allowing the special counsel to do his work. but we are not waiting on the special counsel to finish his work to subpoena witnesses that we deem necessary, to subpoena documents and other materials to hold hearings that we deem necessary, and really to get to the bottom of the president's involvement or any of his enablers in the involvement of undermining our democracy or undermining the 2016 election. >> congresswoman, let me ask you about the shutdown right now. as you know well, we're in day 30 of this.

800,000 federal workers still either out of work or working and not getting paid, not to mention all of those contractors and others being impacted that will never get paid for this period of time right now. are you certain the democrats are unified in what is sort of the leadership's line right now, that they should reject the president's latest deal outright? why not help end this thing by having a real conversation about this right now? >> let me tell you this, there's not one day that goes by --s it's almost not one hour now -- that i don't think about the 800,000 federal workers, 200,000 contractors that are going without pay. i have talked to many of them here in the district, a couple who worked for the tsa for example and they don't have a paycheck to fall back on because there's absolutely no money coming in. some with children in college, special needs kids, they're unable to pay their bills. it's just not fair. it's not right. but let me remind you and others the president basically brags

about the shutdown. he says he owns it. it's his shutdown. the president said there's a deal on the table. you know he made a deal. for someone who wrote a book on "the art of the deal" maybe he should read it himself. >> are there pressurep on t on democrats now, 30 days in he threw something out there, what are you offering in return? >> one month ago the house voted unanimously as well as the senate did. the president agreed to support that legislation. he pulled back. the deal he offered yesterday was really no deal. it was something that had been rejected before. and it just demonstrated to me and others that the president is really not serious about putting the 800,000 people back to work. he's not serious about honoring the will of the american people, overwhelmingly the american people do not want a wall. there are other modern ways to secure our border. but we are hoping every day, thomas, that the president will

sit down at the table, reopen the government and we can continue our discussions on border security. >> congresswoman val demings, we appreciate your time on a sunday night. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> more "kasie dc" back in a moment. moment ♪ ♪ and everywhere i go ♪ there's always something to remind me. ♪ ♪ of another place and time. ♪ it's a revolution in sleep. the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now during

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ahead of morton luther king jr. day tomorrow catch my colleague joy reid on msnbc tonight for "headliners: john lewis." >> john said in his very quiet way, we have to do something dramatic, and then he paused and said, we have to do a sit-in, and when john lewis recommends that you do a sit-in, the only answer is, yes. any way that i can help. >> congressman lewis stepped on to the house floor on june 22nd. >> we're calling on the leadership of the how to pring common sense gun control legislation to the house floor. give us a vote. let us vote. >> reporter: lewis and his colleagues kept the sit-in going for 25 hours. >> we join you in getting into good trouble on behalf of the american people.

>> just a short look at what we have on tonight. watch "headliners: john lewis" immediately following "kasie dc" at 9:00 eastern time tonight. and then at 10:00 p.m. tonight, "hope & fury: millilk, the move and the media. and coming up, insight into what kind of plan democrats could actually say yes to and senator names langford, whether or not he believes the president's proposal was just a straw man. back live for another hour in just a minute. minute.ute confi in 30,000 precision parts. or it isn't. it's inspected by mercedes-benz factory-trained technicians. or it isn't. it's backed by an unlimited mileage warranty, or it isn't. for those who never settle,

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after a buzzfeed story special counsel robert mueller issued a rare statement refuting the story. the president never once asked michael cohen to do anything but tell the truth to congress. >> 100% certain of that. >> i don't know if it happened or didn't happen and might be attorney/client privilege if it happened. >> it's your understanding it ended when, in january? >> it's our understanding that they went on throughout 2016. >> an active project to at least october or november of 2016? >> i would say an active proposal. >> it was an early-stage proposal. >> that is news to me. >> now i don't know what to believe. >> day 30 of the government shutdown. >> the president made an offer

yesterday. >> democrats immediately rejected the potential compromise. >> it did nothing to get us closer to ending the shutdown. >> a wall is a waste of money. >> if you bring a plan to him that doesn't include wall it's dead as 4:00. >> what the president offered was a good-faith compromise. >> a good-faith common sense compromise. >> you've got to start by opening the government. >> this bill would reopen the government. >> we really want to come to an agreement. >> will you vote for the proposal put forward by the president to end the shutdown? >> yep. >> there you go. welcome back to hour two of "kasie dc." i'm peter alexander in tonight for my friend kasie who's under the weather. joining me in, lee ann caldwell and michael steele. editor at the "daily beast" and contributor sam stein and in new orleans tonight, president of national urban league and form 0er mayor of new orleans.

put you in the second hour because we know you had football to watch and our condolences to the people in your great state and city for that game tonight. >> we got robbed. >> i was going to say. >> many people talking about that miss call for a while. those who missed it, check it out online. go to lee ann and talk politics. quickly, we heard the president this weekend offering up the ante, i guess, lifted up the ante, protections for daca, extend it a few more years for the daca recipients, and others able to stay longer as well after, of course, revoking these protections in the past. what happens on capitol hill this week? what's the next sort of shoe to drop? democrats locked in on this or a potential for movement here? >> mitch mcconnell is trying to put pressure on the bill he's expected to put on the floor this week will be the president's proposal but also funding bills to reopen the

government. some disaster aid as well. that is annest to try to get some of these democrats onboard. it's not necessarily clear it's going to work but what some of these moderate, more mainsupreme republicans, i guess, are hoping, this, at least, is the opening salve o and new negotiations can start. immigration has been one of the most controversy issues for republicans and democrats, and to think a government shutdown is going to bring the two together on this is just what they think is insane. so it's the ending, totally unclear. >> not to mention the course of five days until the next paychecks are supposed to go out. and a pretty good disappearance act 29 days, now all of a sudden mitch mcconnell is back. he said he'd only bring something to the floor if they are in agreement and they're not in agreement and he's still bringing something to the floor. >> when you president says you

want them to change, my question is not what mitch mcconnell does but what democrat doss now. do they propose a counteroffer of any legislation? a longer term daca fix. >> engage on immigration? >> actually engage or is the actual instinct to say you know what? we're not going any talking what so ever until you reopen the government. from what i hear, not doing anything until the president reopens the government. they look at this offer he made and say to themselves you ended daca protections, you ended tps protections and your conception to us is to undo some of the damage you created. that's not really a concession. why don't we open the government first? mitch mcconnell will bring a bill up when he wants to bring a bill up as this proves. maybe they can put enough pressure on him to bring a bill to reopen the government. >> got bring over democrats and keep all republicans together.

the idea even discussed amnesty, right? this isn't amnesty but open to amnesty in a bigger deal, his own challenges with his own base, with the sean hannitys and ann coulters on the other side. >> you saw the proposal. call it amnesty and the administration tries to push back. no, it's mot alnot amnesty. a serious effort to move the bill forward. that's the president's achilles' heel and the ann coulter and rush limbaughs and others sitting watching with an innate fear, with history, if you think about it, that the republican president will ka tich lacapitu this issue. they want the hardest line with the hardest wall possibly built that prevent anything that remotely looks like amnesty and the president, that's not his inclination. it's to cut the deal. just wants it done and off their

plate and likes the politics of this. remember, the president saying it could go on a few months or a year. >> i don't know why he likes the politics of it, but maybe he does. >> talk about what the american people want. the american people don't want to be held hostage, do not want the government workers, 800,000, domestic violence centers, the transportation security administration, 9 of 15 government agencies to be held hostage for a fight over immigration issues. the american people want these issues separated. it's not sensical because there is a responsibility to provide these services to people across the nation. what happens if a tragedy takes place because of what is happening at tsa or with cyber security? fire is being played with while games are being played. these two issues should be completely separated. the government should be

reopened and an appropriations bill, in fact, passed, and there can be a battle and a fight over immigration issues. that's what i hear when i travel the country when i talk to people, wherever they stand, that's the majority view in the countryside. i think we need to keep what the american people want top of our discussion. >> and how is this impacting? you have access to large, urban communities. these are communities you've represented in the past. how are urban communities being dispro progressionly in ways impacted by what we're witnessing now? >> good question, peter. immediate impact is on the 800,000 federal workers not being paid. is that be an embarrassment we have federal workers in soup line, federal workers made homeless because of this shutdown, and then it's beginning now to impact those

contractors, those vendors, those community-based organizations that are funded by the federal government through states and cities. those impacts are now coming. it's just a matter of time before food stamp payments are not going to be made, and the impact of that is not going to be only -- only on -- recipients but on all the grocers and retailers that sell food pursuant to the food stamp program. what could happen is, you could engineer a mini economic downturn. that's why this is a ridiculous battle. open the government and have the discussion about immigration separately. >> stay with us. joining me now, newly elected majority whip from south carolina. appreciate you being with us, congressman. if you can, walk me through, sir, your take. is the bottom line end of this weekend the president's newest offer same rules stand.

unless you open up the government we're not talking about anything beyond that? >> well, thank you so much for having me, but, peter, that should be the first order of business. we ought to open the government back up, get these 800,000 federal workers back to work, get these grocers, these other retail owners, back to focusing on what they do best, and then let us sit down around the table as legislators and find common ground. that is a very easy thing to do. the president laid down his marker on yesterday, and that ought to be the starting point, and we will start from there. but i think the president needs to listen to us as well. the fact of the matter is, i've been around this state for the last two days, and people are very, very anxious. i've seen one household where both husband and wife work for the federal government. both of them are laid off,

waiting anxiously to return. they've got children in school. they've got tuition bills to pay, and there they are dependent upon us to work out things on their behalf. we can do that. and they ought to be, would go while we do it. >> congressman, obviously, a presumption among democrats we speak to, the president said, i'd be proud to be responsible for the shutdown for border security. democrats pounced on that. polls have shown most americans blame the president and republicans for this, but is there any concern among democrats that that tide could shift given the president's new offer this weekend, the willingness as he said to negotiate, whether the final offer or not changing the terms a bit. is there concern this could backfire on democrats over time if they don't start to come to the table? >> there's always that concern. it's certainly a concern of mine. however, that ought not be the

motivator here. the motivator ought to be getting the government back open, getting people back to work and then working out a solution. the president put something on the table. i think there's a lot there we can work with. but he ought to listen to the things we have got to say. as i said to someone earlier today, if a high school doctor, person, were to accept this deal in three years what would happen if that person is away at school trying to get a college degree or some other post-secondary education to pursue and look up three days expired, three years expired, and they are back in, back in the situation before. that's not the way to do this. >> what if the president made those daca protections permanent? would that ching this equation? >> yes it would. tps as well. not just daca, tps, remember, the --

>> to be clear. if the president came sout, said he'd make that permanent right now you'd be willing to have a real conversation about that. is that correct? >> i said tps would have to be included in that. remember, my roots are in one of those s.o. countries he talked about. i want to see temporary protection status dealt with as well. >> so just for clarity here that means that you would be willing to negotiate beyond just opening the government, if the president were to put some other bigger things on the table for democrats right now. there could be some big package that yutd ou'd be open to? >> yes. that is absolutely correct. i've been proposing for a long time now something i call a smart wall. a wall that would have security built in to it, its efficiency by having scanners, censors,

x-ray equipment and places along the border look at replaces barrier there's for some time and places you might use levitts to be a barrier. this stuff of having a concrete wall as a monument to someone's existence is just a little bit fool-hearted. we ought to see what is effective what is efficient and what the experts tell us will work to secure the border. that's what it ought to be. border security. not a concrete edifice to anybody's existence. >> do you trust the president as a negotiator? >> well, i think the president has demonstrated time and time again he cannot be trusted to keep a deal. remember, wep sent him $1.6 billion, which he could have used for the wall, and we had other fixes in there that all of us accepted, and within hours of his expectations of having

signed that agreement, he said, no go, because he reacted to a couple of talk show hosts who gave him a hard time. the president ought to focus on the american people, and forget about what the talking heads have to say about him. had don't stop him no matter what he does. >> congressman clyburn, appreciate you being with us on a sunday evening. have a great night. >> thank you very much for having me. i want to bring in our panel here. a little news in what we heard from him now? the conversation had been government shutdown. got to reopen the government and talk immigration. he just said, hey, talk real stuff on immigration, we might be do it altogether. did that strike you, too? >> totally. the pre-condition of government being open was no longer the pre-condition of the government being open. that said, the president going for this is farfetched. he pull add deal similar. $25 billion for the wall? tough to see him doing it for $5 billion for the wall and not to

mention, excoriated by his base. the other thing to throw out there is there might be some sort of deal or a condition discussed where they want legislation, democrats want legislation that sort of prohibits government shutdowns from happening ever again, because this is a cliff that can happen over and over. we're talking about a spending bill that gets them through october. we'll go through it all over again potentially in a matter of nine months. >> what should we watch this week? what are the pressure points you're keeping an eye on? >> yeah. what clyburn said was interesting. what some of these republicans are hoping happens, that it's just the beginning of a true negotiation, but there's, you made the point in the last question, peter. it's trust. there is no trust between the president and democrats and even some republicans don't trust the president. remember a few days before mitch mcconnell unanimously passed a c.r. to fund the government for six to eight weeks and then the president the next morning said, no way. that's just been a pattern we've

seen over the past couple of years when it comes to it immigration. so i'm looking to see if there is any sort of sign that democrats are trusting what the president is going to say, and if there's any movement and real discussions happening behind the scenes, because everything has been happening in public. there's been no staff-level meetings, nothing going on behind the scenes showing that there's any movement. so if that starts to happen there could be movement. >> ann caldwell, our expert from the hill. thanks for joining us. and almost one year ago, revealed he was working quietly on a bipartisan immigration fix and, well, here we are today. and joining me live as the country poses over what the president did or didn't tell michael cohen to do. back after this. back after this.-

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. if this report is the true, if the president directed michael cohen to lie to congress, then that's a clear case of participating in perjury and obstruction of justice and he should resign, but if he doesn't resign, he should be impeached. >> this is obstruction of jut s justice, if these facts are true. no question, it's an impeachable offense. >> i'm waiting for the mueller

report but if this it true it shows obstruction of justice. >> "if true," the most important term in politics. hearing it a lot this week. used by lauck mawmakers and med across the country. buzzfeed reported that the president drirected michael cohn to lie to congress about the timeline of discussions regarding the trump tower moscow project. later it was disputed by the special counsel's office. buzzfeed says it still stands by its rosting and some, like senator kirsten gillibrand says it still is about the report. >> it shows the president obstructed justice. it raising a question in my mind that is very serious and so what we need it mueller to be able to finish his investigation. >> this just shows how urgent that investigation is.

>> joining me now in new york is staff writer for "the atlantic." what we heard as part of that conversation, i'll start with, the simple question. are we supposed to pretend the buzzfeed story never happened or is there still something in there? >> one of the things the buzzfeed report did was revived the conversation about the trump tower moscow deal and how the president was pursuing this throughout 2016 and the way it did that, of course, that rudy guiliani, the president's lawyer, was out on tv today and speaking to the "new york times" and seems to be trying to get ahead of something. he told nbc this morning and the "new york times" later that the president was pursuing this deal in moscow from the moment he announced his candidacy until the moment he won the election. and i think that we're focusing a little too much on the mehta

conversation surrounding the buzzfeed report and not enough on the implications that while russia was attacking the election the president was pursuing a deal and hiding it from voters. i have spoken to many, many counterintelligence experts, national security experts, who say that's perhaps the most concerning part of all of this. that russia knew that trump was trying to pursue this deal in russia, and the american people did not. so at any moment if russia wanted to pull that out of their pocket and exposed fact trump was saying he had no business ties to russia when in fact he was tries to secure a multimillion dollar deal in moscow as the same moment putin was trying to get him elected and undermine clinton's presidency, there was no better way to leverage or blackmail than holding that over this head. the buzzfeed report was useful

in that respect. i don't think we've gotten to the bottom of this. i think we will hear more because buzzfeed said it would continue the reporting but don't want to lose sight how unusual this was. >> michael steele, this really is, helps get to the fundamental question of why when past republican candidates had been sort of -- mitt romney, frankly, saying they were our biggest geopolitical foe and four years later donald trump is basically embracing russia as if they could be one of our biggest allies and friends. that's the fundamental question. what what the reason behind that jnd rudy guiliani said, yeah, the conversations may have gone throughout, or did go, throughout 2016. we don't know the speckifics or details of it, but it lends something to this. >> it lends a lot to it and i would not be surprised if in a few weeks or even months we find out that those conversations extended beyond the november 2016 election, into 2017 and

probably first or maybe even second quarter of 2017. >> raises questions about conversations from the oval office we have no access to and conversations with vladimir putin people may subpoena, may try to get the interpreter's notes because we don't even know, the administration doesn't even know what he said to vladimir putin, amazingly stunning all of a of this is republican leadership has no inclination to find out or an inquisitive nature to even know what was discussed when you brought the russians in to the oval office and kicked the americans out? the other part of this, though, i think is very important is that whole concept of lying to the public during the campaign. did you hide this in a way that you were trying to prevent the american people from knowing everything that was going on here? i think that's something for a lot of americans to as as more as more of this information gets out on the street. just how deep it was for the

president, then candidate, to lie to them about what he was doing. >> more morale, a lot of questions, few answers. waiting impatiently for robert mueller's report to it be completed and questions after william barr's testimony, the likely new attorney general whether we'll actually see that full report. but is it sort of the risk for democrats that they focus so heavily on impeachment? is that the message from americans in the midterms? what's the message to democratic lawmakers? >> what americans want is for them to hold the executive branch accountable. whether impeachment and i hear from people whether they want impeachment or not that they want congress to conduct its own independent investigation and important is this buzzfeed story opens up a potential line of inquiry for michael cohen when he testifies before congress. and there may be an opportunity to probe this prior to the release of the mueller report. i might add, summernation of

perjury is and independent crime, independent of obstruction of justice. it can be obstruction of justice but also an independent crime. >> and done by the president of the united states if true. >> no question. and raises a question what counsel, advice or pressure the president gave not only to michael cohen but to others before they testified before mueller. let's remember that paul manafort has been caught lying even after his guilty plea. so there's a question of whether there's been an effort to coordinate testimony. whether there's been an effort to influence testimony. that's an important what i think additional line of inquiry that michael cohen can be asked when he testifies before congress and certainly i think we'll see it addressed in the ultimate mueller report a. question for natasha. sam, go ahead, quick, it's pr e prudent positive pump the brakes

a bit. it could be right but a public correction, i should say, from the mueller team. >> which raises flags about all the times they didn't correct. >> correct, but prudent to not talk whether or not the president directed his lawyer to lie to congress in this juncture. natasha is dead-on. an odd and controversial story still here which is the president's lawyer admitted they were pursuing business wit russians same time the president talked about using sanctions, cozying up to the russians, destroying nato potentially for the russians. pursuing these business opportunities. the broader issue, starving for primary documents. two years almost of this and little primary documentation of what happened. we'll get it soon. the mueller report will come out. house investigations will start. we'll start to see proverbial receipts but prudent to wait and see before we make opinions.

>> and the emergence of rudy guiliani's effective defense. on one hand, yes, i admit the president was working, quote/unquote, on this russia deal from the beginning of the campaign, the time announced and then became president. secondarily he said this week, well, the campaign could have claimed it. suggesting to some extent that perhaps that is not a crime. you see the contours of a defense where they admit that they were working with russia, admit they had a relationship with russia but seek to say, well, but -- it was a crime because it was happening during the campaign. >> important point. raise this to natasha. the buzzfeed story, the week started with reporting about a counterintelligence investigation into the president of the united states to say nothing of rudy guiliani's primetime conversation this week whereas was pointed out, i never

said no collusion between the campaign and russia, just no collusion between the president and russia. we can pull up multiple xavexams of just the opposite. talk about the shifting of the goal posts when it comes to the defense of the president of the united states? >> absolutely. i think it's gotten to point where so much has emerged about the extent of the conversations between the campaign and russia that it's just become completely impossible to say that there was no collusion between the campaign and russia. i mean, collusion is obviously a very vague term. the thing we're really looking for is whether there was a coordinate the conspiracy to work with russia to defeat hillary clinton. as soon as the news came out erroneously that he's given first to a russian who was suspected of having ties to russian intelligence, that's kind of broken the floodgates. we are now at a point where we have to look seriously at whether or not, for example, george papadopolos told anyone

on the campaign about those e-mails he was apprised of in april of 2016. things like this where it just has to be more than a coincidence that all of these things kind of con virgin and the campaign at once and the cherry on top of this, the thing that might be the driving factor of all this is the trump tower moscow deal. it really could come all the way back to the money and to the fact that the president was pursuing this massive deal in russia, and if nothing else, at least it explains why he was cozying up to putin during the election. >> yeah. if not going to become president of the united states, might as well have a good deal on the back end of it. thank you. senator lankford joins us next saying the president's daca proposal is a big first step. we're back after this. let's be honest.

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this week the senate is expected to take up president trump's proposed compromise to reopen the government. just now the president tweeted in part to off the great people who are working so hard for your country and not getting paid i say, in all caps, thank you. you are great patriots. joining me now, senator james lankford of oklahoma long trying to figure out an immigration deifel his own joining us from

oklahoma city. senator, appreciate you being with us on a sunday night. my simple first question is -- why not just reopen the government and then have what is a complicated conversation about immigration? >> so the reason for that is, if we can go ahead and make the decision, make the deal as small as possible and get the government reopen, that's the best possible solution for government workers. even the "washington post" put out an editorial saying refusing to eastern talk about the president's proposal or even negotiate this doesn't help all the sidelined federal workers. a big loss of trust. no great shock on that in washington, d.c. and say just reopen it and trust me we'll talk later will not help. try to make the best deal we possibly can, keep it as small, not as complicated as possible, simple and straightforward and get the government open. >> why? the "washington post" also wrote an op-ed yesterday or today the president is unreliable, made and withdrawn from similar deals before. i guess the question is, why

should democrats frankly for that matter republicans trust the president to stick by his word on any deal? >> best thing we can do, go through the normal process. put a bill on the floor of the senate, debate it. open it up for debate. takes 60 to do that. making necessary changes, pass it. send it to the house, allow them to approve it and we need to get on with it and we have to get to a solution and get it on the table and actually get real debate going on. >> ann coulter and other republicans on the right calls in amnesty tweeting, trump proposes amnesty, we voted for trump and got jeb. has there been any back channel by republicans with conservative talk radio right now? and if not, why not? if the president listens to them. >> that i couldn't tell you. i assume the white house is having conversations with some of those folks and some in the house and senate republican

leadership in on that conversation. i have not been in on conversations like that but i assume those it dialogue, happening. obviously, daca and protected undocumented, and hopefully there is a future debate on immigration during this time. daca doesn't have to be part of it as a requirement. hopefully it will be a requirement, but it doesn't have to be, because it pushed off past the president's election. >> your take on this idea of amnesty? the president tweeted when people suggested this was amnesty like ann coulter, no, amnesty is not part of my offer and amnesty will be used only on a much bigger deal whether immigration or something else. what do you make of that? >> the president -- >> the president's willingness to embrace amnesty in a bigger deal? >> i need clarification with the president how he defines it as that. i've been outspoken for daca and daca eligible, we should have a

solution. we don't hold children responsible for the actions of their parents. >> what about a broad amnesty deal? >> depends what else is there. a real desire for border security obviously. if you get into the adults that illegally crossed the border and went ahead of others who did it the right way, there would be pushback in oklahoma. rightfully so. a lot of folks in my state of proud of the immigrant community, engaged with immigrant around the world that live in oklahoma. they're a healthy part of our culture and society here in the state, but most of those folks have come in and actually done it legally. we lose track of that fact if there is a tremendous number, millions of people here, who legally have gone through the process and frustration to say why do people illegally get ahead of those who did it legally? >> you're on the indian affairs committee. not a lot to talk about it in the course of our two hour on "kasie dc" tonight but you saw what was the scene and still

trying to fully understand the context of it all but certainly taunting by some young men, many of them wearing make america great hats, to a native american on the lincoln mem more yesterday and a lot of outrage including from that have community. covington, kentucky about this. your reaction and what do you make of it? >> frustrating. we're getting bits and pieces of the story. some stories saying some of people there from the tribal members were kind of taunting them. then there's students taunting back. hard to get a feel for it. >> is taunting ever appropriate to a native american on the memorial steps? >> no. an odd deal to unwind. a microcosm of a larger issue. not just a trump supporter young youth and drawn into it because they're wearing trump hats on it. a bigger issue of dialogue in america is really the big issue. talk about celebrating dr. martin luther king jr. day tomorrow. he was outspoken to say darkness

doesn't overcome -- overcome light. light overcomes darkness. you can't drive out hate with more hate. love drives out hate and the we're trying as a culture to out-hate each other. someone says a hateful thing, jump in, try to say a more hateful thing to silence them or push them back. that's not helping us as a culture and at some point we have to step back and have real die l l dialogue and debate even in our differences. >> is the president leading by example in that effort? >> some days. for instance, yesterday, he did. other days, certainly, he has not. his rhetoric has been heated as his wife mentioned at times and others have mentioned and people in my own state may like his policies but not the rhetoric. at this point it's a decision from every single american, though, determining how we handle our other rhetoric. heated days like the shutdown, a proposal to shot shutdowns entirely for the future is especially important we try to

resolve our differences, talk it out, debate it instead of arguing at each other. >> senator lankford see you again on the hill. thanks for your time. >> leak forward to it. talk more about that story from the lincoln memorial, that native american and that confrontation with a bunch of young men when we come back. r w, it's important to go for an annual check-up, r w, and when you do remember to be open and honest with your doctor about how you're feeling. because how you're doing emotionally, affects your physical health - and vice versa mr. danson, would you mind? i love doing this thanks, but i just need you to fill out the medical history. that's embarrassing go in for your annual check-up, and check in physically and emotionally cigna. together all the way. do i have to do the age part? okay

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back now on k."kasie dc." by now it's likely you've seen this video of a face-off between a group of high teenagers and a vietnam veteran. ♪ >> this short seconds of video part of a much longer series of exchanges has become a flashpoint. some of the boys wearing "make america great" hats were covington catholic high school students who traveled to washington to attend the right

for life rally. the man wit drum nathan phillips part of the first-ever indigenous peoples group known at the black israelites. a lot to make sense of. how it started remains in dispute. the net result, that video and americans trying to figure out where race relations stand in this country. the diocese of covington release add statement apologizing to phillips saying this behavior is opposed to the church's teaching on the dignity and respect of the human person. the matter is being investigated and we will take appropriate action up to and including expulsion. our team is back. marc morial, michael steele, sam stein. michael, start with you about this. ending the conversation with senator lankford a good point. this is part of a broader moment in america. right? things get ugly out of nowhere on mlk weekend.

it happens on the steps of the lincoln memorial. >> we've come a long, long way from the days are police dogs and fire hoses and lynchings and those things but those activities take different forms and manifest themselves differently. the kkk and nazis aren't running around in hoods burning crosses, getting tiki torches and wearing izods and pullovers. >> and walking in public. >> yes. a very different dynamic. the scab on civil rights and racism, plugged, pricked, pulled off again, and we are trying to figure how to deal with it. unfortunately a lot of americans thought we were past that. we elected a black man president. everybody knows a black person that they like. all that crazy stuff. now we're in a space where the truth tells us something very different, and i think that's the next confrontation. >> well, this is a really tricky story to unpack. especially in such a short amount of time.

part of it is how we view news through our political prisms. you can see the video as a pr republican or democrat and jump to do different conclusions. first is propensity to jump as a nugget of news without waiting for surrounding content. a lot is upsetting about that video. in the past couple hours we've seen surrounding video and testimony from those making much more nuance and freed to keep those tkeep -- need to keep those in conversation and you can't separate the larger context from the video. much as we want to say it's one singular incident, anti-semitism are on the rise. a marching of neo-nazis in virginia. not the same as those high school kids, but there is a context in which this happened and people are absorbing that new cycle. it's complicated, nuanced of an issue and cool to at least hold off again and get more video and

more input before we jump to our conclusions. >> for sure. >> and i do not see it as complicated or nuanced. i don't see it as democrats looking at it one way or republicans looking at it another way. i think the archdiocese of covington, kentucky, put it straight. these actions of our students are inconsistent with the teachings of our church, and that if we verify that what we've seen already has happened, we're going to discipline and we may expel these students. we have to speak up. the native american community in america is misunderstood, is disrespected. their contributions to this country of marginalized and we can't make politics, and suggest somehow from a republican or democrat, i think about this differently, depending on who's the target. no. we have to condemn this.

we have to -- and then take it as a teaching moment for our children. and help them understand, the young people, why this is inappropriate and why mocking people is not the american way. >> yes. so for a bit of clarity or the audience joining now this evening. the young man in the video, effectively face-to-face with the native american elder put out a statement denouncing what he describes as outright lies about him. his name a nick, respected all races and was trying to diffuse the situation that took place and puts out a long statement among other things basically says that there were protesters who had come at him and his chasemates and said in effect he was there with the permission of a teacher serving as a chaperone and led the students in chants to counter the hateful things shouted at our group and says i never interacted with this protester and did not speak to him or make any hand gesture or any other aggressive moves.

to be honest i was startled and confused why he had approached me. >> i want to clarify. why it's difficult to talk about these things in this short amount of time, clearly on the video, there is reprehensible i do think you should be able to say it is not necessarily as black and white as we saw last night. >> got to leave the conversation there. but says a lot about the twitter culture we live in. where however many characters are enough for people to draw

conclusion. reminder to all of us we got to wait for answers before we come to final conclusions on these type of topics. after the show nbc's "head liners" offers an in-depth look at john lewis. and years after the assassination of dr. martin luther king jr. you are catching kasie d.c. we're back after this. you are catching kasie d.c we're back after this. but believe me... i'm not your average consumer. that's why i switched to liberty mutual. they customized my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. and as a man... uh... or a woman... with very specific needs that i can't tell you about- say cheese. mr. landry? oh no. hi mr. landry! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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brees. pass is incomplete. no flag. the two officials talk. the crowd's going crazy as there is no flag right on the saint's side line. >> bad snap. the kick is, good. rams win it. and on to super bowl 53 they go. >> greg zuerlein. his foot kicked that ball 57 yards for the win. that no call tomorrow people will be talking. your reaction? >> its got to be one of the worst no calls in -- >> we'll be back with more kasie d.c. after this. e back with more d.c. after this.

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before we go what are we watching the week ahead? >> watching to see how the president reacts to democrats reacting to his proposal. whether or not he doubles down saying look les get tot table and do this. >> so much to watch for. obviously the shut down. but i am curious to see if this

buzz feed story leads to any more stories. we'll see if there is anything else. >> is there a state of the union? >> no. he'll give some sort of speech. >>'s it tonight for "kasie d.c." back next week from 7:00 to 9:00. i'm peter alexander. good night from washington. in my younger days i got arrested and went to jail 40 times. i've season been in congress another five times and i may get arrested and go to jail again. >> he's an icon of the civil rights movement. >> they found the power of the human spirit in john lewis. and he came to symbolize the student movement. >> he believed that he could help a country find its soul. >> risking death to fight for what's right. >> i did not think john would