to cross lines to policies, policies. that's what dr. king was talking about, changing laws and changing policies and thereby changing the cup the. >> bishop barber, thank you very much. that's it for me this hour. thank you for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts now. hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. rudy giuliani making a mess out of donald trump's always-shifting story about his ties to russia and his lies about how long donald trump engaged in negotiation over trump tower moscow. one could never be sure what rudy is up to. he clearly established a brand-new fact pattern as it pertains to the timeline of donald trump's discussions with his personal attorney, michael cohen, over that deal. cohen had claimed in testimony to congress that those discussions about trump tower moscow ended in january 2016. he later admitted that was a big, fat lie in a guilty plea to

robert mueller. now he's offering up a new version of events. >> it's our understanding they went on throughout 2016, weren't a lot of them, but there were conversations. can't be sure of the exact dates but the president can remember having conversations with him about it. >> throughout 2016? >> yeah, probably up to -- could be up to as far as october, november. it's covered until the election, so any time during that period they could have talked about it. >> it didn't stop there. after he did that interview, rudy went further than that in an interview with "the new york times" he quoted donald trump as saying, quote, the trump tower moscow discussions were going on from the day i announced to the day i won. rudy's latest comments stand in such stark contrast to the president's previous version of that story, rudy had to spend the day today trying to clean it up, telling nbc news in the last hour, quote, my recent

statements were hypothetical, not based on conversations i had with the president. my comments did not represent the actual timing or circumstances of any such discussions. to which kellyanne conway's husband george tweeted in a replay -- translation, i just make bleep up. if rudy's having a hard time keeping his facts straight, it may be because the party line on trump's business with russia has shifted 180 degrees since the start of the campaign, beginning with trump's claim he nothing to do with russia at all. >> i mean, i have nothing to do with russia. i don't have any jobs in russia. i'm all over the world but we're not involved in russia. we could make deals in russia very easily if we wanted to. i just don't want to because i believe that would be a conflict. it was a well-known project. it was during the early part of '16 and i guess even before that. >> could be up to as far as october, november. our answers cover until the election, so any time during that period they could have talked about it.

>> it would be funny if it wasn't so scary, even the possibility trump could have been pursuing business in russia throughout the campaign stands out against a backdrop of russia friendly policy pronouncements that we know now contributed to the suspicions whether the fbi believed donald trump might be working for russia, suspicions that led them to take the extraordinary step of opening a counterintelligence investigation into the president into the rly months of his presidency. before they even got to that point during the campaign, the president these at the time bizarre statements after pursuing a business deal with russia. he called for ending economic sanctions with russia, the one imposed by the obama administration. he gave interviews questioning nightio and he called on russia to release hacked e-mails mr. put anticipa putin's was believed at the time to have stolen. what does it mean for the

government and what does it mean rudy sent somebody out today to clean up the cleanup of his investigation. now, helping us today covering the justice department and ron klain, former chief of staff to al gore and our msnbc legal analyst and "the washington post" opinion writer jennifer rubin, also, and lucky for us, msnbc contributor. what seemed so dramatic yesterday was rudy giuliani more faithful to the written responses from robert mueller than it would even seem donald trump himself. his answers all seemed to have a single goal, to be consistent with the responses that he clearly has knowledge of that went into mueller. what did we learn yesterday that donald trump has responded to robert mueller in terms of questions that mueller must have had about how long discussions about trump tower moscow went on. >> yesterday it seemed like rudy was trying to make the case,

look, trump might have known about these discussions involving this trump tower moscow project up until the point he was elected and his whole big point was so what? i assume he's doing that because he knows they've told mueller something about discussions, maybe he's worried about how that dance now looks but he wants to make clear, look, these discussions could have hand, they could have hand up to the moment trump is elected. that's kind of alarming because voters didn't know about them at the time. i think he's doing that because he knows what the president has said in response to answers to mueller on those questions. he sort of wants to make sure nothing the president says is inconsistent with the facts. as i sit here today, i don't sort of know what the facts are because rudy has been all over the map on this question. that sort of gives the president i guess leeway to say anything but i assume he's trying to get in line of what he's already told robert mueller. >> ron, this seemed to me, the headline out of these rudy performances seems to be we

don't care about lying to our voters. we can shoot someone and they'll be there for us. we don't care about lying to the press. we'll just make it up every time we go. rudy, i rudy, don't care about people thinking i'm a fool but we do care about not deviating from the answers to mueller. it seems like every time rudy goes out, we inch a little bit closer to the one person they do fear, and that's robert mueller. what's been described do me as stacks and stacks and stacks to va transcribed responses and dozens of pages that lies the truth of his lies and dealing and inter connectedness with vladimir putin. >> no question. no matter what rudy says today it is complicit here, explicit

yesterday, was the trump administration and moscow went on throughout the entire campaign at the time donald trump immediately told the american people and voters, he had no dealings with russia, he wasn't doing business in russia, he had chosen not to do business in russia. those were just out in out lies. one issue what does robert mueller have? probably has proof of what ul ann giuliani coughed out yesterday. and in the past couple of weeks, clips of secretary clinton calling trump on the russia election have become viral again. let me tell you, if anyone trump was negotiating to build a trump tower russia in october, that would have been front and center in those debates. he lied to the american people and now he's getting called on it by robert mueller. >> and by rudy giuliani too. rudy giuliani is, if nothing else, confessional in these interviews. he knows what donald trump has written in those written responses. i want to ask you what the

significance is though, he seems to be taking these actions up to election day because they have a different rabbit up their sleeve afterward. it would seem the emmitt flood ideology of religion or protecting everything that happened afterward is counting on everything that happened after election day. is that what you're hearing? >> yes, and i think that is a very flawed legal strategy if that is what it is. one, rudy giuliani seems to have this idea collusion as defined in the mueller probe and what the heart of this investigation is, is only about what happened during the campaign and election. and as long as they didn't clud a collude and make a specific agreement head of time trump would get his trump tower and putin would get relief from sanctions, as long as they didn't do that during the election, it's okay. i don't think that's right at all. i think part of why they're worried about that is the whole idea of bribery and the way the

bribery statutes are written, it's much simpler to make a case like that once someone is an elected official. once trump is president, if he is actually making deals at that point, you know, you're looking at a whole different ball game. i think the whole thing is problematic for them though and maybe giuliani doesn't understand this, that it's all one big conspiracy. if there was a quid pro quo, it doesn't matter really when the negotiations began or ended. what matters is what's there an intent to give something, namely relief from sanctions, in exchange for i'm getting a trump tower moscow. >> let me just press you because we have the something, we have the something in the form african-american president simply has to take a different policy position for russia to start considering its debts paid. and he did that. he made the commitment to nato not being something he believed in, called it illegitimate. we now know from reporting in "the new york times" and other places he talked repeatedly

about pulling out. russia got their payout in the form of sanctions relief. and we know that they were trying to hide all of their efforts to do that. kushner tried to set up a back channel. flynn discussed sanctions relief and lied about it. we know he lied. he's about to be sentenced. we still don't know why. perhaps that something mueller knows. and russians and ukrainians were all over the republican convention and all over the inauguration. >> what sounds like you're laying out perfectly is russia has gotten its end of the deal. that's done. whether or not they've gotten everything and trump has been able to fulfill it to their wildest dreams -- although the sanctions lifting was pretty close or deripaska, so if russia got its end of the deal, why is that? is it because trump truly believes this is the best way to make foreign policy? or is it because he's been promised something? and if he's been even not explicitly promised but if the

motivation behind him making those decisions is because he's getting something personally out of it or already did in the form of election help, that's, in my mind, a crime and an impeachable offense. >> i don't buy that rudy's lost all of his marbles. i think he has a few. and i think what hand after he gave that interview yesterday is somebody else on the legal team yanked the leash the way you yank a dog that's about to get smashed about by a bus and said, go clean that up. i don't think they wanted it out there that donald trump wanted to have the latitude legally, i don't think they wanted it out there that he responded to ro robert mueller. yeah, i have might have been negotiating trump tower moscow all the way up to election day. i think that calls into question way too much conduct in light of what we now know to have been suspicions at the fbi grave enough for them to open a counterintelligence investigation into the president. >> i agree entirely. to your point, conspiracy is a funny thing. all you have to do is make one

affirmative act and further the conspiracy and you're guilty of all of it. it doesn't stop, it goes forward. it goes backwards. as soon as he is enmeshed in this kind of wink, wink, nod, nod trading back and forth, he's up the river on a lot of this stuff. i would also say if something so telling about rudy, he actually is a bad liar. hes always gives the tell. his tell was it's not illegal to give a conspiracy or occlusion unless it's expressly about the hacking and dnc and hillary. that's a nonlegal position. you can tell what they're doing, trying to come up with their best argument it's not a conspiracy but something specific, to hack a computer. i don't know what legal books they're reading but not the ones i did. but that's completely wrong. the other thing you said which is so important is they're

trying to get by on this so what kind of attitude. so what if michael cohen and donald trump talked about his testimony? so what if he dealt with the russians? it's almost sort of daring the american people to say wait a second, it's not all right. it's never okay for the president of the united states to be involved with a hostile foreign power at the time he is running for president and setting forth his policy. it's never okay to talk to a potentially dangerous witness about his testimony on the subject of investigation. so there sort of no-holds-barred complete sort of arrogance they will simply say it and it will be so. it doesn't work in a court of law and it's not going to work with mueller, who we have seen with the other defendants and other witnesses has quite a broad -- i think appropriately broad view of conspiracy and fraud, which is part and parcel of this. >> and possibly bribery. matt, i feel like we go at what

mueller knows the wrong way. we go from the bottom up. we know he charged the 13 russians with conspiracy that jennifer's talking about. we snow heknow he's trying to c the dot if there was a conspiracy. let's go the other way, we know donald trump has been parroting, puppeting not just soviet ties or russia's talking points but putin's talking point on the invasion of afghanistan. we know donald trump spoke of his desire to destroy and withdraw from nato. we know donald trump disparaged and disagreed with and disbelieved his own intelligence community when it came to the russian meddling in the 2016 election. we know donald trump from your colleague greg miller's reporting destroyed all of the evidence, all of the notes of his five meetings with vladimir putin. and we know that donald trump was more comfortable talking to vladimir putin with a russian translator present, not the american translator.

all unprecedented. what do we not know? what's the remaining mystery? >> well, look, i think the hacking is still really important. i covered quid pro quo cases, conspiracy cases before. these are hard legally to make, proving an explicit bargain between people is very hard to do. even when it seems like two people are doing things that benefit the other, proving an explicit bargain is very hard to do. i would say in some ways it's advantageous to trump and his people that this is sort of become a legal question, will mueller prove this in court? that is very hard to do. it's very hard to charge people with these crimes. it's very hard to convict people of these crimes and then sort of the public is left thinking, what's next? is somebody going to be charged and not taking just at face what hand. even look at what happened here, rudy giuliani is saying even while trump was telling the voters i've got nothing to do with russia, he's having syrup

tishs interactions about a possible business project in moscow. the voters didn't know that. in and of itself, that is bad, politically damaging. but we're so focused on will mueller use this to prove some sort of broad legal conspiracy, some sort of illegal quid pro quo? i think that might be the strategy here. i mean, rudy is sort of isolating you on legal questions, trying to be -- use legalese as best he can and we sort of don't just sort of take things in the moment and say, wow, what rudy said was so amazing. voters didn't know that the president of the united states, the now president of the united states while he was campaigning was having these discussions about a possible business project in moscow, in and of itself to me, that's extraordinary. >> matt makes the perfect point and i'm sure ron feels this way, as former campaign operatives, these revolutions in the middle of a campaign -- i don't say

would have been because we were wrong about so much in 2016, but should have been lights' out, should have been politically devastating. i don't think -- we don't rebel in the extraordinary nature of what rudy does often enough. i don't think there's anything inane about what he does on television. he socialized us to the idea cohen was running a hush money operation at the president's direction. he socialized that on purpose with sean hannity. he's now socializing us to something else. what do you think it is? >> absolutely. i think he puts out there the facts that he knows are eventually going to come out. we all talk about them sort of outrage about -- or shock, you know, sort of, surprise about oh, giuliani said this. i can't believe he admitted it. and it falls -- our shock and surprise falls more about giuliani admitting it than the underlying lie itself. at the end of the day giuliani

should be disbarred for the amount of lies he's telling on television. >> and kicked out of the pr. >> right. but what trump has been doing in the name of the presidency, and i totally agree with matt, i almost feel like mueller -- in whom i obviously have great faith. but the fact of the investigation has almost insulated trump because we're all waiting for the final report, the package will tie all of these dots together, as opposed to say reacting to -- stunning revelations one by one that should be president ending, they should be something that we really we all step back and take a deep breath about and we don't in some ways because we're waiting for that final report. i think both things are important. one is a legal question, what will mueller find? i think there is -- and it just increases every day -- so many signs, circumstantial and

otherwise, pointing to some kind of criminal conspiracy here. what it will be and whether mueller will feel he has the evidence to say i can prove this in court, which i think will be his standard whether or not trump gets charged, i don't know. but i think that that -- from a former prosecutor's point of view, and i'm not alone in this, i see criminal conspiracy. i think the separate but if not equally important is what this president is doing and has done in a moral way. >> we need seven more hours to answer that question, but thank you matt and mimi. you both blew my mind today. please come back. after the break, art of the failure to make a deal, donald trump showing himself to be all take and zero deal-making acumen. we will tick through the failures on the deal-making side of his presidency. plus, in this really hand news, mike pence compares donald trump to mlk. we'll show it to you.

and donald trump's death rattles like the titanic, the ship is sinking burt they're still attacking each other. we will bring you the nuggets from two tell-alls. ls he was 34% eastern european. so i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors we thought was italian was eastern european. this is my ancestor who i didn't know about. he looks a little bit like me, yes. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story. get started for free at ancestry.com breathe freely fast, with vicks sinex. my congestion's gone. i can breathe again! ahhhh! i can breathe again! ughh! vicks sinex. breathe on.

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we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. the government shutdown, now in its 31st day, wow, has served a surprising purpose. it's now more apparent than ever that donald trump got somebody else to write "art of the deal." from phil rucker and josh dossy at "the washington post" -- trump's management of the partial government shutdown as

exposed as never before his shortcomings as a deal maker, the shutdown and impacts that has become rippling beyond the federal workforce into the everyday lives of millions of americans is defining the second half of trump's turn and set a foundation for the 2020 presidential campaign. trump's fraudulent prowess as a deal maker were eroded even further this weekend when his latest border proposal includes temporary protection for about a million americans was declared dead on arrival. democrats called it a nonstarter and several conservatives objected to anything with a whiff of amnesty. to follow that up, what did the dealer in maker chief do? he tweeted 40 times yesterday. joining us former senior adviser at the dnc, jennifer rubin and ron klain are still here as well. not normal conduct to tweet 40 times. clearly, we cover the tweets because sometimes that's all he has left. >> he is a lousy deal maker. if you look, the problem he has

is he doesn't have credibility with democrats or a lot of senate republicans. we saw it with mitch mcconnell, walking away from negotiations the past couple of weeks and now he wanted a commitment with trump he will sign this bill they're floating out there. he has no credibility. that's hard to negotiate. >> i think that's pride, when he finally brings something, no one -- >> not only does he have no credibility, he also doesn't really know what he wants because he doesn't have the policy acumen to understand what's right and what's wrong. we learned this with the syria deal, right, the last person to talk to trump always gets sort of what they want, even though it's not in the best interest of this country. look, at the end of the day, he did not get mexico to pay for a wall. he was supposed to be the deal maker who could do that. he didn't. he failed that. he did not get the aca repeal. >> he can't even get the republican debate. forget about mexico. >> we had two years of full republican rule and they didn't

bring up vote on the wall. couldn't get mexico to pay for it. if we look at the aca repeal, he failed there and only way he got tax reform through, did he it through reconciliation, full republican votes and it's a damaged product now that isn't even popular and republicans couldn't run on. he's a lousy deal maker. >> ron, i don't know if it's the failure to make a deal or sort of weakness, what so constantly comes through is the weakness, this sort of being not just a puttette of putppet of mitch mcconnell and ann coulter, sean hannity, the flashy light is the weakness. >> and the buck never stops with donald trump, that's the problem when he's president of the united states. the art of the deal presidency sees no art and no deals. he's tried to turn it into a bit of a reality show. he went through a week or two when he was negotiating with

chuck and nancy live on television in the oval office. he did so poorly with that. they had to move the later meetings into the situation room so there could be no cameras to watch the president's incompetent deal making on television. i agree 100% with doug, he doesn't know the substance well enough to strike bargains. he's completely intimidated by his own supporters like shawn hannity and ann coulter, he doesn't really know what he wants so he can't make a deal. when he puts a deal on the table, he can't stand behind it when anyone on his slide complains about it. that's why we're on day 31 of the government shutdown. >> let me just show you an example of what ron just described. ann coulter tweeted after his offer on saturday, there are a million things to trade for a wall, higher federal minimum wage, infrastructure bill, solar panel bill, trade a wall for amnesty, and there's no purpose of having a wall. trump then shortly after, no, no, he didn't say ann coulter, no, amnesty is not part of my

offer. it's a three-year extension of daca. amnesty will be used in a much bigger deal, like daca. there will be no push to remove the 11 million plus here. but he wasn't talking to nancy. he was talking to ann! >> it's so pathetic, it really is. the funny thing is, he doesn't have to do it, his fans, the real people that voted for him are so devoted, they would rationalize this. it's the right wing media machine they're so intimidated by because he's afraid they're go to make off with supporters. >> it's such an important point. this is his power and thank god he doesn't realize it, seriously. if he did something reasonable on immigration, he might actually reenthuse the people who voted for him. thank god he doesn't understand that. he actually could do comprehensive immigration reform >> absolutely, he can do a lot of things. he can do all kinds of foreign policy deals that his opponents and supporters would applaud.

they would be terrible for the united states but he would have a deal. in some sense his incompetence as a deal maker is a saving grace for us and his own self-perception is also a saving grace. i -- >> the real guardrail. >> it shoutly iabsolutely is. one of the things with will he so this week is mitch mcconnell said he will bring this to the floor. do we think he's going to do that? how much votes will he get that ann coulter won't scare off? >> mitch mcconnell might be doing this, i will bring it up, appease you and if it fails he, schumer and the speaker sit in a room, the adults -- >> toss passive aggressive. >> i've wondered where mitch mcconnell's been -- >> hiding. >> he's facing re-election in 2020. maybe he's worried about his right flank. he's also dealing with a number of senators in his own party who will face a tough re-election as

well. he's jammed up. i don't think that trump necessarily wanted to actually even work with mcconnell on this. i think he tried to do this with pelosi and schumer and he's failed there. so now he's going to mitch and i think mitch will bring this up. it will fail. the votes are in the senate, not the house and we're back to where we are today. it's a wasted stage vote. >> wasted is a good place to stop. i can see your face, ron klain. go ahead, last word. >> last word. the first law of holes is when you're in a hole, stop digging. what the first part of this offer that was so bad for trump is making the protection for dreamers work anything means you're willing to deport the dreamers. what trump did over the weekend is resuscitate the threat in the tweet you read he's willing to deport dreamers. that exacerbates the situation even more. he continues to dig a deeper and deeper hole instead of getting out of the hole he's in. >> better at digging than deal

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after facing backlash for having nothing on their public schedules on the day the country honors dr. martin luther king jr., the president and vice president made a surprise visit to the mlk memorial in d.c. today. a visit that lasted about three minutes and didn't even include a mention of dr. king's name. it followed this comment from the vice president just one day earlier, attempting to compare trump's bush for a border wall for a quote to dr. martin luther king's i have a dream speech. >> the hearts and minds of the american people today are thinking a lot about the weekend of where we remember the life and work of the reverend dr. martin luther king jr., but one of my favorite quotes from dr. king is now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. you think of how he changed

america, he inspired us to change through the legislative process, to become a more perfect union that's exactly what president trump is calling on the congress to do. >> wow. the naacp called pence's comments an insult to dr. king's legacy, while dr. king's son, martin luther king iii stated his father was a bridge builder, not a wall builder. pence's comments seem even more stunning when you hear martin luther king jr.'s reaction to seeing a physical barrier in place. here he is in germany 1964 looking at the berlin wall. >> this is your first glimpse of the wall, isn't it? >> yes, it is. this is my first glimpse of the wall. >> do you find it depressing? >> yes, i certainly do. it symbolizes the divisions of mankind. >> have you ever seen anything so disastrous as this? >> not really.

certainly they are the divisions that continue to exist but when it's symbolized with an actual wall, it becomes very depressing. >> so mr. vice president, you better keep fighting with the fake media because dr. martin luther king is way, way, way out of your league. i don't even know what to say. >> i mean, it's incredible when we had the breakfast this morning, martin iii and i, vice president biden was there and others in harlem just now, i honestly, first of all, don't believe they intended to do anything for dr. king's birthday. >> of course they didn't. >> who does a going to a memorial in secret? why wouldn't it have been on the schedule if they intended to do it? you don't just decide i'm going privately get the vice president to sneak by dr. king's memorial to surprise. surprise who?

the monuments? i mean, first of all, he was reacting to the fact that all of us were attacking him. but second of all, to distort dr. king's words, if you listen, nicolle, what vice president pence said, king said that they want to deal with the legislative process, the democratic process of america. while you're blocking people from asylum and while you're supporting voter suppression. if anybody should not have been quoting that, it should have been those that are dealing with voter suppression and dealing with people that want to flee to a democracy and they're saying no, don't come here. it was an absolute oxymoron for him to say it if he understood what he was really quoting. i mean, it was the wrong quote for him. >> look, i think it's a lot more than the wrong quote. and live tv is dicey. i screw up all the time.

politicians that i worked for made gaffes all the time. but what's sinister here and wasn't a gaffe or badly chosen quote, that was deliberate. they're not talking it me. they're not talking to you. they're trying to be less horrible in the eyes of their base. >> yes. president trump isn't fit to carry dr. king's hat, let alone be compared to the man, and we have seen this president -- there's been no president in my lifetime that has divided this country along racial lines more than president trump, and you've seen this sinister effort to use identity politics in the worse way to infuse anger, hey dread and division among his base to get them angry, to get them on his side. you have seen this on a range of different issues. you remember when we were talking about immigration several months ago, he talked about s-hole countries and pontificated or wondered why we

couldn't have more people from white countries like norway. how he used the protests by nfl players to play at his base, to motivate them, to get them angry. he called nfl players s.o.b.s. this man has done -- not to mention everything he said about immigrants and women. this man has divided this country more so than anyone. the fact vice president pence would even put him in the same sentence as dr. king is disgraceful. >> let me just add one thing to your point, because we wanted to show all of those moments but we had a conversation as a tv staff that we played the racism too many times, that there's always an addition to the real -- i mean, you just named a highlight reel of his most divisive comments. >> and i'm sure i left a few heart. >> that in his heart he would appear to be a racist. he makes so many and he adds to it so often that we decided not to play it today. that might have been a mistake. maybe it was the perfect day to

remind everybody what he does. >> i think if we understand why dr. king is in history, we have to confront it. if dr. king had gotten tired of pointing out people's big tree and racism, blacks would still be in the back of the bus. i mean, you have to keep reminding people of the unfairness and inequality, particularly when you have people that have state power. we're not talking about a guy who just has an opinion. he is the president of the united states. he's over the cabinet. he decides how we deal with goods and services. and for them to sit there while they're coming with this racist immigration policy and voting policy, and act like they can clothe it with a three-minute, 90 second drive-by dr. king memorial, is an insult to dr. king and an insult to the intelligence of the american public. >> and what it reminds me of is the big lies of all toll

tartarians. they take the nonfact and try to convince you it's true. oh, we're wonderful for immigrants. we love immigrants. donald trump will never tire of telling us. so it's the big lie he says over and over again. yes, he tries to make his supporters feel better. but what it should also remind us of -- and i go back every martin luther king day to read it, is the letter in the birmingham jail. that was a letter back to white ministers telling them, do not be complacent. do not tell us to go slow. do not tell us that we should abide by the law because it's an unjust law. it was a wait of calling people, calling their attention and calling them to conscience. trump does the opposite, he calls the worst in everyone. he allows people to make excuses for themselves and others. he's the darkness rather than the light. for him to do this and pence to do this shows they really have

no shame whatsoever. >> ron klain -- i'm sorry? >> lehe's provided a permission structure to those on the far right, extremists, really before the campaign but certainly charlottesville when he did like both sides -- >> making it a moral equivalence. one thing biden said this morning at our breakfast, he said even in the civil war, we never heard a president try to make a moral equivalence under people fighting to preserve confederacy and those that were against it. he made a moral equivalence between those that wanted to kind up a con ffederate statutes opposed to those who didn't. this is the same man two nights ago on the eve of dr. king, during the birthday week, that spoke to the nation and never even mentioned the 800,000 people that were not being paid and furloughed, didn't even

mention subcontractors. how does pence compare him with a man like dr. king and morality when he didn't even show sympathy or any sensitivity to people he's causing to wonder how they're going to put food on the table for 31 days? >> you're the one that's explaining it, he has no empathy. after the break, donald trump promised the best femme will come to work with him but a new trump by his ally said the opposite hand. the new book about donald trump's dysfunctional west wing. . building a better bank

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tripadvisor. donald is great at the one-liners but he's a chaos candidate. he would be a chaos president. he would not be the commander in chief we need to keep our country safe. >> hillary clinton not the only one with a sharp prediction way back then. then candidate jeb bush predicted more than three years ago a chaos president is exactly

what we would have. if we need any further proof, two new tell-alls from former team trump members depict a candidate and white house in constant turmoil. former campaign chairman christie attributed in his new book and in axios why he believes things, in a state of chaos. far too often trump has found himself saddled with riffraff. instead of high-quality, vetted appointees he got the lackey and felon michael flynn as national security adviser. ron klain, i don't know if this pains me to say this, but does christie have a point? >> look, i hate to throw cold waters on his book sales or mr. simms' book sales, but if there's anyone out there in america that doesn't know donald trump has the most incompetent staff of any white house, that person is probably in the market for a coloring book, not a tell-all. i mean, this has been patently and blatantly obvious how

incredibly incompetent the white house staff has been. look, i have a certain amount of happiness in saying this starting to come out, more explicitly from insiders, but a certain amount of chagrin from those who sought jobs in the trump administration and took jobs in the trump administration. these are the last people we should be hearing from. they are the people who helped make and facilitate this mess. what is obvious though is this is the most incompetent white house. as you said early in the hour, maybe that's a guardrail under the corruption that they can accomplish because they can't get done what their trying to do, but the level of incompetence is unmatched in any prior white house. >> ron, i remember in the beginning of the transition, i had friends you and i both know, were asked to come in and meet the president and talk about high-level jobs as counselors, communicators. i said run, don't walk away from

that building. i never bought that you could serve this man and protect the country from him at the same time. >> i think that's right, nicolle. i think, look, the people who did it, it's the old everything trump touches dies line from rick wilson. virtually everyone who associated himself with donald trump back to his business ties, back to all of his real estate dealings, they've all come out worse for it. that's turning out to be true for virtually every person who serves in this administration, whether they were bad people before they got there or turned bad by being there, virtually no one's leaving with their reputation, dignity and perhaps even criminal liability intact. >> criminal lawyers, they all need them. >> they really do. but i think there's a false premise that christie has and that is that he could have gotten anyone better. who wants to work with donald trump? if you are a man or women of distinction, honesty, who has a

reputation, you looked at this guy and knew it was trouble. >> jim mattis went in. >> he was perhaps the sole exception to this because, thank god, he kept nuclear war from our doorstep for a couple of years. but i come back to cohen in the foreign policy realm. you will think that you're preventing the worst, these people have been asking to lie about the murder of an american journalist. they have been asked to make ridiculous statements about the president and our foreign policy. they may go on to have lovely careers on fox news, but in the real world and in the esteemed world of academia or government or policy making or parenthood, they carry this burden for the rest of their lives.

>> he is awful, he humiliates his staff on a regular basis and he humiliates other people regularly. >> you have to think of his mind-set, most people that could have been in those positions that have been vetted will trained to be public servants. thinking the public should serve him, he would never be able to get on the same kind of vibe. that is foreign to him. >> it feels disloyal. it is silly and dumb. he would not have chosen them because he would think there is something wrong with them. the world he felt and was raised to believe was supposed to serve you, not you serve the world. >> when we come back for the first time we're hearing why an envoy to the coalition fighting isis resigned straight from the

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in this case, it is a conversation and they are completely reverses the policy. you also don't telegraph your retreat. >> that was drurponald trump's

former envoy. he was speaking out there out against the president. we don't spend enough time making ta point. it is the entire security apparatus being yanked around. >> it seems to be coming up begin causing big gt fights afi lining up with donald trump's interests. he winds up on the side of authoritarians and the bad guys and apart from our allies and democratic traditions and human rights and it is almost invariable. you could absolutely take it to the bank that he will make the wrong decision all these issues. . and i don't add up the years.

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i could talk to these friends for another hour, but we're out of time. that does it for us, i'm nicole wallace. katie turr is in for chuck. >> happy monday, it will be an interesting week. if it ask monday, rudy giuliani changes the story, again. hello and welcome to "mtp daily." the president's trump tower moscow problem is not going away any time soon and it may have just gotten worse. right now the president and his legal team could be on the offense over the special council's rare rebuke of the buzz feed news story on friday.