i could talk to these friends for another hour, but we're out of time. that does it for us, i'm nicole wallace. katie turr is in for chuck. >> happy monday, it will be an interesting week. if it ask monday, rudy giuliani changes the story, again. hello and welcome to "mtp daily." the president's trump tower moscow problem is not going away any time soon and it may have just gotten worse. right now the president and his legal team could be on the offense over the special council's rare rebuke of the buzz feed news story on friday.

rather they seem to be back on defense after rudy giuliani said this to chuck on "meet the press." >> it's our understanding they went on throughout 2016. can't be sure of the exact date, but the president can republican ha -- republicmember having conversations with them about it, probably up to october or november. >> as far as the president was concerned, an active project until at least october or november of 2016, an active potential deal? >> i would say an active proposal. >> october or november of 2016. if you believe what he just said yesterday, it is a huge story for a lot of reasons. when was candidate trump telling voters he had no business dealings with russia while his company was pursuing trump tower

in moscow. when was he saying, if you're listening go hack hillary clinton's e-mail. when the trump campaign changing the republican party platform to be more favorable to russia? while they pursuing trump tower in moscow. when he was arguing for looser economic sanctions in moscow, you can probably guess, while his company was pursuing trump tower in moscow. giuliani said my recent statements about discussions during the 2016 campaign between michael cohen and then candidate donald trump about a potential trump and moscow project were hypothetical and not based on conversations that i had with the president. joining me now, joyce vance and matt miller.

they join tonight's panel,tive any cross, managing editor for "the beat dc." susan delpersio, and steve kcon cornacky. it completely contradicts what he said yesterday. >> on one hand it is laughable. he walks it back and he achieved his goal, he desensitized us to those bad facts. now we heard them and when they surface down the road it of is less surprising. so whether or not he had a direct conversation with the president or not, he knows what is in those responses and he is

making sure when they are publicly released the sting will be out of that bad piece of news. >> it's not just what he said to chuck, he said the conversations going on from the day aannouni d announced. this clean up, this statement that he released today, was that because the news media was talking about how this was a contradiction, or how this was extending the timeframe for the discussions, or a clean up because of something that robert mueller was looking into, joyce? >> it is hard for us to know at this point. at some point we will know why the precision matters. there is so much information about trump's interaction with russians like the notion that putin would be offered an

expensive apartment, a nice piece of real estate, if he was to run that. so it is hard for us to know for certain, but there is a reason they have been insisting they had no dealings and no contact. >> trump tower moscow, they were per suing this during the campaign. he was talking about what his policy would be toward russia, could that be a reason for the fbi to open up a counter intelligence investigation. >> we think one of the reasons they opened that investigation is they were concerned about the series of events, all of the things that trump did friendly to russia all throughout the campaign and the things he did friendly to russia in the early days of the administration.

i think the question has always been does he just say and do these things because of a prorussian bent. one of the other sides of the quid pro quo is thought to be the election interference. the other could be a financial incentive and the most of course candidate that we have is this trump tower and moscow deal. we knew before this week that the discussions were going on through 2016. maybe they went further, but based on his statement today, maybe they didn't. maybe it did die over the summer of the election year. >> i just don't know what is more remarkable. the statement that extended this to the end of the campaign, or rudy giuliani saying i never had a conversation with the

president about it. also remarkable, susan, is they have -- they were blessed with the special council putting out a massive fire for them on friday. coming out and saying that entire article that alleged trump directed michael cohen to congress is not true. special council put it out for him, and rudy giuliani goes on the sunday shows and lights another fire again. >> that's what he does when he goes to speak to the "new york times." >> why? is he not prepared? you know him. >> there is a theory that he throws out bombs so say are out there so when something similar comes up it has been already absorbed by the public. it's like they say it's, all right, we knew about it. answers are covered through when

he was elected. that is framed there all of his questions. it doesn't matter if we were or not. it doesn't matter if he spoke to michael cohen about his testimony. that's okay, it happens, but do they want us to talk about this, steve? >> it's better than the shut down. >> it seem there's is an inevitability to it. it gets to where i think matt was saying. there is different scri interpretations out there in the public scare about it. wasn't it weird that he was saying these things about russia, then we find out about a business deal, and this is a fact, this is a guy that can go back two or three decades and there seems to be e a lot of

sympathy about the alliances, specific imp think for vladimir putin as well, extending to other leaders like him. is it of a piece with that, and also with this idea, remember in the early days it was a consensus out there that it was not a real serious campaign. it is a branding exercise. he will be back hosting "the apprentice in no time, did president trump still think that? >> could it still be a branding exercise for when he is out of office and he wants to make money again? is that part of the reason? i don't know that is -- i don't know what do you think? >> i think we're all rational and beltway people. >> i'm not beltway, hold on. >> political people, i think there is still a sea full of people beyond the fox news

viewing crowd that look at rudy juliaewe joule -- giuliani that cheer him on. we're not talking about what could come out this probe. he still has not gotten to that street meeting with don junior at trump tower. i think there is still a lot that we don't know. we get paid to consume the minutia of this. i think people are eager for this big season finale of this mueller probe to happen. >> they're not the only one that's are eager for it to come, i think all of us are at this point. susan brought this up, and this was rudy giuliani saying it is not a big deal if the president talked to michael cohen about his testimony in front of congress, here he is talking to jake tapper idea.

>> did president trump or anyone on the trump team talk to michael cohen about his congressional testimony before he gave congressional testimony. >> as far as i know, donald trump had no discussions with them about the events. >> but you just acknowledged it was possible that the president spoke to michael cohen about that. so it is possible that it happened. >> i don't know if it did or didn't happen. it could be attorney-client privilege and it did and i could not talk to it. what about the result that michael cohen lied? this is the way you handle a situation when you don't know what kind of evidence the other side has.

ruizy is covered both ways. if something shows up in the future, rudy can say he was honest about it, but the problem here for this president, and he did, as you pointed out, he got help from the special council. we know that special council does not believe they have evidence that trump democraticed cohen to lie. that doesn't mean there was so innuen innuendo, a nudge nudge wink wink agreement, a version that was not the full truth. >> i just wonder how much michael cohen would go rouge in a opportunity like that. a protector of trump, he would be rate reporters to get more

positive press for the president, would go rogue in that room if the president said to tell the truth or would he act on what he believed was the best interest of the president, and does that american that trump would need to give him a wing wing and nudge nudge. >> if you look at what he said in court documents, he was not rog rogue at that time. it may not be that the president directed him to go in and lie to congress. but the president set the music publicly. the president came out and publicly said that all of these ker conversations for trump tower moscow. he knew what the president's public story was.

the president may not have committed a crime by directing michael cohen to go held a lie, but that's not the only bar for presidential behavior. it matters that the president lied about it through the campaign and into his time in office. >> just because he didn't break the letter of the law doesn't mean it might be all right for a president to act this way. how much will that factor in. we talk about the president's base all of the time. there was a big chunk of people that voted that were taking a change on him and losing any of them could mean he wouldn't win by the same margin as last time. >> that's right and if it wasn't for 80,000 votes split up in three states. they didn't really like hillary clinton, they thought it was a

swamp, and they want to see something new and different, as a result we saw a blue wave in the past november. we know what the american public kind of things right now with that leadership. what really affects his base is the shut down. there is very few people out there that can go without a paycheck. you live paycheck to paycheck, that relates to people everywhere. whether the stories are showing up on conservative news outletting or liberal ones. and that's his base that says wow, this is really not working. i can't -- this is -- this is hurting. >> this guy elected to make deals it not making deals and we can't trust him. >> when you look at the special council's response to the buzz feed story, who are they

responding to? they talked about it a lot. are they talking to congressional democrats starting to throw around beginning impeachment hearings? >> i think they're also responding to the president and his attorney. they said we did contact the attorney general's office. lots of people do that but the department rarely does it. i think the reason they did it in this instance is they were starting official hearings based on what was in an erroneous report. they would have looked at it and thought most people believed this came from us. it was described as law enforcement sources. they're saying this is now an official proceeding being launched based on something we know is not accurate. >> the policy is not to comment on any individual story because

if you comment on one you to comment on the others, joist do -- joyce, does that mean everything else was accurate? >> i think this was an extraordinary situation, and i'm sure there was a lot of back and fourth before they decided to issue the direction for all of the reasons that we have been discussing. the fact that it giving everything else some truth. it means exactly what matt said in this case the direct implication that it came from special council was not enough. >> thank you guys very much. tiffany, suzann susan and stevee sticking around. the deal making president that can't get a deal done. 31 days and counting. 31 days and counting ( ♪ )

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welcome back, 31 days into this partial government shut down and we're about as close to an end as it was when it first started, and now democrats are rejecting his new proposal of $4.7 billion for a wall in exchange for daca. nancy pelosi says she has not spoken to anyone from the white house since tand. but mitch mcconnell plans to bring the plan to the floor this week. two wooks ago mitch mcconnell said there was no point in bringing anything to the floor that could not get passed by both houses of congress and the white house, all four leaders had to agree to this, why is he putting this on the floor?

>> there is a sense among republicans they would like to be seen doing something on this, but as you say we're really in the same place that we have been. anything through the senate right now looks like it has nothing being taken up in the house. it has no prayer of being taken up in the senate, we're still on two opposite tracts. it is obvious that democrats are not feeling anything. the more interesting question to me is why is there no urgency from republicans in the face of these polls. the last may jr. shut down was in 2013, there was a lot urgen y urgency. they gained nine senate seats. i wonter if it that experience

coupled with the speed and they forgot to -- they have been through this so many times, it will be overtaken by a zillion other things there. >> but the indication there is that the people don't matter. >> how many times do we end a week and say that we thought this would be a story we're talking about ten years from now. why would a party looking at polls that are 24 points behind on the question of blame not feel the urgency, we saw that same party feel in 2013, in 1995, and that's. >> this is affecting millions and millions of people going to

food banks now and diaper banks. they can't afford to go to work and get the day care person they need to go to work. i think if it goes on much longer it will be a problem. when i think of going to mitch mcconnell, bringing him him, it is the only off ramp available is that they make a deal along the line. how else can it happen? donald trump is not moving. donald trump offered some sort of a deal on saturday talking about temporary relief for undocumented immigrants, but at the same time he did that ann coulter was tweeting that he is offering amnesty. does the power here lie with ann koulter.

-- i disagree with susan. people are increasingly placing this blame on republicans. i think she a skilled politician. i think she has done all of this. i don't think this is something that the republicans will be off of the hook on. which he bring any of these deals that democrats have consistently passed to the senate floor, tomorrow, outside of the president's deal. republicans could force this president's hand to reopen the government. i think the really power broker is going to be on the other side. their constituents will start to get fed up, you have seen corey gardener, you have seen them

deflect from the party, force the party, and push them to open the government again. there is people that are planted in his base that are impacted by this and i am just not sure they're going to -- >> you're confident that nobody will -- if this doesn't last another month that folks will not look at washington and think to themselves "everybody is at fault? you think it will stay with trump the entire time? >> i can't say every single, you know, over a million people impacted by think, but i don't think it will impact polling that we have seen. the news cycle is such that i think they're banking on -- >> but steve was saying that republicans were not going to move because of that. the argument that you're making is that democrats would not move either. you think pelosi will have a counter deal, is there anything that they can offer in exchange

for money for a border wall? does a dream list exist? >> i think democrats want to know because he starleted changing his language around the ball around. is he talking about a barrier, a virtual wall. there may be some negotiation, space for negotiation there, but again you have every republican legislature including will herd in the republican party that respects the largest area in texas that shares the border with mexico saying this is a myth, the wall is not necessary. there is residents saying there is no national emergency, we're fine. >> but trump tied it now to his ego more than anything else. he is listening to right wing radio and ann coulter who are calling him a wimp if he backs down. >> it has to be that will heard

cares what his sdpents say. they are going to be the people to have to force trump's hand. i think his own party will have to force his hand here. >> what do you think steve? >> if you look at the republicans right now the few out there that broke with trump in the republican position on this, think of who they are, cory gardener, susan collins who is running for reelection in a state that trump lost. i think there is only three republicans left in the house representing districts that donald trump did not carry in 2016. there was 25 of them before the last election. they were almost all wiped out. >> why isn't mitch mcconnell nervous by that? >> he gained seats in the midterm election. 88% of the republicans in the white house that were from clinton districts are gone. there are three left, will heard, two others on the senate

side you have ones that have to worry about running in clinton states, they're saying end this right now. >> are you saying he doesn't care because it is only three and he got more seats than necessary. >> i just don't get the sense that he is hearing from panicked republican senators saying we're going to lose our seat or our majority because of this. i think if there was that consensus his posture would be different. >> tens of thousands have filed for unemployment or sought job less benefits. $400 million red payments due this monk. there are food banks, this is impacting real people with real lives, and they have real mouths to feed, it is not just about white house ego will be bruised

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so you can keep saving the world. >> kids: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪ welcome back. another senator is off and running. >> i'm running for president of the united states. >> yeah!

and i'm very excited about it. >> pamela harris is in. >> the american public wants a fighter. >> she faces sharp criticism on the left for an inconsistent criminal justice reform record, harris is not shying away from her past as a prosecutor and california state attorney general. >> my entire career has been focused on keeping people safe. >> the self-described progressive prosecutor is promising a campaign for the people. >> they want someone that will fight for them and not fight based on self-interests. >> he have make her first campaign stop on friday before the official kix off sunday. and we will be right back with more "mtp daily." more "mtp daily. if you have moderate to severe

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mommy is here getting groceries, what did she tell you about what is happening? >> she told me that we have to get something to eat from here. >> because of what? >> because there is a shut down. >> welcome back, one month into the government shut down some federal workers are turning to churches and local charities to help provide food for their families. in four days those workers could be missing out on a second paycheck. the tsa says 8 pakist% of office out with unscheduled absences yesterday. the allegatigency says many peo could not make it to work because of financial limitations. with me now is cakatie hill, wh just met with tsa agents and air

traffic controllers that are working without pay, thank you, what did they tell you? >> it was just devastating to listen to them. these are the representatives that represent their entire location or facility, and they were statalking about story aft story of people who don't know how to make their rent. they're average income is $40,000 a year. so some can't afford the gas. air traffic controller is a highly skilled job that are driving lyft after work. they're just saying it doesn't matter whose fault it is, people just want their paychecks. >> what are you telling them? >> i mean i told them this was me being able to hear what is going on from their perspective, and i want to be able to come back and tell the stories and

continue with putting on the pressure. i'm one of a large number of people of the house and senate, so they don't expect me to solve it by myself, but they said it means a lot for know be listening to them and making sure their stories are shared in washington and hopefully we can really put the pressure on in the next several days. >> did they tell you if they thought you or anyone should be willing to give money up for the wall or did they say it's not worth it and the president is wrong? >> i don't think it is about whether or not we should be spending money this way. these are people that keep our border and country safe, but they said we have to make a stand and stay is not okay to negotiate on the backs of federal workers. some came up and said stay strong. that is a self sacrifice, right?

saying this is not a future option to negotiate like this. >> when will the shut down end? >> that is a great question. i think it will end when people put pressure on mitch mcconnell and others that know if they don't open this, if they don't agree to something soon, they're losing people who would be who, in many cases, have been lifelong republicans. they see this as using them who have nothing to do with the argument around border security or immigration. they feel like political pawns and that is what they're being used as. >> the president is not budging for his demand for the money, which means that democrats can ask for a number of things in order to reopen the government.

is there a wish list? a dream wish list that the democrats have been compiling to offer the president in exchange for more money for a wall? >> there are a lot of thing that's we want, but that is et negotiation that should happen after the government is open again and these poor people are getting their paychecks. we have a whole host of things we want around immigration and border security. >> like what? >> first of all a three-year temporary protection for tps and daca recipients is not nearly sufficient, so we want real protections for daca and tps recipients, moving towards a path to citizenship is ideal. what i'm proposing and many of my colleagues are, is that you

reopen the government and let's have a blue ribbon panel. we have not had one in awhile, to help us come to a meaningful end here. there is a lot of common ground. you have seen the president's language change. he is not calling it a wall any more. he is saying physical barriers in some bases, and i think that mean there's is a room for us to come to a common ground, but he cannot use people's paychecks as the way to do it and that is something that we cannot allow because if we do he will do it over and over and over again. >> i think let's be clear, there was an agreement between the house and the senate and initially from the president to reopen the government to fund the government for a period of time, and the president through a wrench in it, he was pressured by right-wing media, but now

seems like a war of attrition going. if they refuse to budge, is there a point that it feels like it is not worth keeping this m people out of work for this long? >> we have shown over and over that we care about these people, right? so to look them in the eye and say we're holding strong and doing what we believe is right for the long term, but in the meantime they don't know how to make their mortgage payment, that is really tough to do. so i think we're -- where i'm at with this is that we need to find other ways to help people. we need to lock at other state and local agencies to pick this up in the meantime. i think there is a really broad agreement regardless of your party preference that we should not be having these kinds of

shut downs as a way to negotiate anything. let alone something that has nothing to do with these federal workers. test not like this is an argument about how much they should get paid, it is about something completely unrelated. and the part that kills me is you're talking about border patr patrol agents, coast guard, law enforcement officers, first responders, they keep us safe, air traffic controllers and tsa agents, they make sure that a plane doesn't crash and a terrorist isn't able to attack us. and we're not paying them? they won't keep showing up to work. we have to make sure the message is getting across that this is not just individual people's lives, it's about the safety of our country and making sure this is not the way that any sane government should operate. >> katie hill, thank you for joining us. it is a busy day for 2020 news and we're hearing a lot

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sounding confident that they would be able to get a deal with 30,000 striking teachers. they remain out of the classroom and on the picket lines. they announced they're making progress, but we know that teacher wills not be back at work tomorrow. even if there is a tentative need to vote on before the strike, this comes at a bad time for mayor garcetti who is considering entering the 2020 race. garcetti is joining an already rounded 2020 feed including pamela harris. for now he says his first priority is making sure that kids are safe and schools are open. we will be right back with more "mtp daily" after this. "mtp daily" after this what if numbers tell only half the story? at t. rowe price, hundreds of our experts go beyond the

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today we talk about justice, and today we talk about racism. and i must tell you it gives me no pleasure to tell you that we now have a president of the united states who is a racist. >> we've learned the last two years it doesn't take much to awaken hate, to bring those folks out from under the rocks. >> this is the moment in america where we don't just celebrate king's holiday, we recommit ourselves to be the agents of change, to be the daring dreamers once again. >> time for the lid. those were some of the potential 2020 democrats speaking on this martin luther king jr. day. and as we mentioned earlier, the democratic field got its first african american candidate today in kamal ra harris. the panel is back. tiffany, susan, and steve. so kamala is in, guys. >> and she is all in. she's not exploring. >> she's in.

>> and that's a good place to be. i think she did the right move there. >> california. primary's moved up. it's not going to be last any longer. my mom is very happy about that. what does that do for her chances? >> it helps if she is viable when that comes around. she is going to have to make an impact in those early states that would include iowa, new hampshire. and i'm not sure -- i think it's too early to say because we don't know fully what the field is going to be yet, which one of those might be a better play for her early on. but i think she's got to make some kind of a splash. but you think back to obama in 2008. i think it's a good example, because obama, his big breakthrough when it really set things in motion was south carolina. iowa improved viability. and his numbers in south carolina really change when he won iowa. it was particularly true among the black vote. it's forgotten now, but there was all this talk that the clintons had such residual loyalty from black voters that hillary clinton was going to win the black vote against barack obama. and in fact, there was polling in south carolina early on that suggested that might happen.

the minute he won iowa, it all turned around. 80% of the black vote in south carolina and across the south. >> there is something to be said about momentum. tiffany, who does the democratic -- who should it be? somebody who holds the progressive flag, the moderate flag, somebody who -- who's going to get voters off their couch and into the voting booth, those voters who did not vote in 2016? >> i tell you, katie. i think you're going to have a really hard time running any ticket without a woman and/or a person of color. so i think that kamala harris is very much viability. i think elizabeth warren, as we talked about before has found a very ideological sweet spot, and she is a fundraising powerhouse. i do think because of the way the primaries are set up, it's going to be a very challenging space for democrats to navigate. i want to say, though, i think it was really smart of senator harris to come out. as soon as she made her announcement on "good morning america," she went to howard university, her alma mater. her first stop is south carolina. i think the consistent thing that she went to an hbcu and now

she is doing this event with her sorority sister, alpha kappa alpha in south carolina. i think she is sending a message that black women will make or break candidates this election cycle. i don't know that i would dismiss her as not being viable. i will say i think if joe biden gets in this race, that's going to be a really challenging space for senator harris to navigate because he is somebody who encompasses a lot of things. he touches on some of that obama nostalgia. and i think he could give her a run for her money. >> how much is consistency going to matter? elizabeth warren is one of those candidates whose been consistent during her entire career. gillibrand not as consistent. harris, not as consistent. biden, not as consistent. is it going to matter, is there going to be a desire for purity in message? >> well, i think it's more about where they stand today so they can kind of correct if they want to. self-correct. >> are voters okay with you coming out and saying i was wrong before, here's what i believe now.

>> maybe. because what's more important than that is finding your space. with potentially 20 people in the field, what's your lane? i mean, those are pretty narrow lanes. if someone like biden comes in like tiffany just mentioned, he could take up eight lanes in himself. so how do you get the attention, how do you start courting voters, and everyone is going after those early states that steve mentioned. so how do you stand out? because it's no longer elizabeth warren and so and so destroying the race. now it's all senator harris. so that's going to constantly be changing. and then when it comes down to like the final four, maybe we'll see something. >> here's how donald trump did it. he called everybody names and said outrageous things every day and dominated the news cycle. is that what you need to do when you're in a field of god forbid, but that's what he did to stand out in a field of 16. >> well, interesting too, i think he is kind of the x factor in the democratic race, believe it or not, for a couple of reasons. i think number one, democratic voters i really sense are asking

themselves as they size up every one of the candidates, can this person beat trump. i think if biden gets in the race, that's essentially going to be the theme of his campaign. hey, pennsylvania, michigan, washington, iowa won them back. you can debate that all you want if that's true or not if you would, but that's basically going to be his pitch to democrats. so they're sizing up on that. the other thing is how is trump going to respond to the size of the field? is he going to engage with them? >> we have to go, but i wonder if it's about getting those voters to turn back to democrats or getting the voters who didn't vote in 2016, what's going to matter more. tiffany, susan and steve, thank you. we will be back in one moment. i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying

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we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. that is all for tonight. we will be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, katy. thank you very much. we are covering a lot of stories this hour. donald trump getting panned by the left and the right for his offer to try to end the shutdown on his terms. we also have a special report that we've been working on for a while on "the beat" tonight. i'm going get into new evidence about what trump actually does throughout the day, why it's so problematic for america, and why his calls for executive time need more scrutiny. we're also going to drive into the controversy of bob mueller doing something he rarely does. i'm sure you heard about it by friday night, rebutting a specific article that buzzfeed report on michael cohen. i'm very happy to be back with you.