giuliani as i told you a few weeks ago looks like grand pa simpson most of the time. >> i can't top that. thank you all for being here. that does it for our hour, i'm nicole wallace, "mtp daily" t t starts now. hi, nicole. >> i'm told it is wednesday. whatever day it is, someone said flat circle day. >> that's a good one. have a good show. >> the state of our union is a shut show. dirty minds all of you, s-h-u-t.

michael cohen will not testify next month because threats for rudy giuliani and for michael cohen's family, but they said he will testify, and some people are talking about subpoenaing him. we will speak to a top democrat on that committee. we will begin with even bigger breaking news. the shut down starts with major questions involving now the democratic party's strategy in all of this. nancy pelosi said he will have to cancel the state of the union if the government is still shut down. that came hours after house democrats offered the president everything he wanted financially. $5.7 billion to spend on border security if he reopened the government, which of course is not happening. the president said this afternoon "this shut down will go on for awhile." none of the money they offered

was to be used for any new barriers on the border. so what is pelosi up to? democrats said over and over again we will not negotiate while the government is being held hostage and we won't give you a penny for the wall. but this offer boils down to we will give you $5.7 billion, you cannot call it a wall, and one democrat said the money can't be used for new sections of the ball but beefing up existing structures is okay. so is pelosi worried about her caucus getting antsy? or did they make this offer assuming he would reject it so they could use it against him to get their own leverage back? whatever the motivation democrats with this offer is testing the following premise. whether or not president trump is going to make the wall

promise his own self imposed read my lips moment. joining me now is stephanie kut cutter, michael steele. sahil, i will let you get started. what do you know and what i'm trying to figure out here are the democrats negotiating or not? what is this offer supposed to be taken as? >> there is clearly a shift in their positioning. first no negotiations whatsoever. now this, they're remaining firm that there is no wall, but the definition of a wall is changeable. if you give him $5.7 billion, physical barriers can be part of the barrier, a smart wall, there could be a convergence there. the democrats won't call it a

wall, president trump can't call it a wall, that would be the potential end game here. it is not clear that the democrats can accept that if they call it a wall. >> stephanie, is this a steam valve a little bit because there are ant si democrats saying we can't look like we're not negotiating or what was this plan formulated for? >> i think this is where speaker pelosi is showing her brilliance, frankly. number one some democrats were weary that we are being antiborder security. we are pro border security, we always have been, we put forward proposals like this, but not for a wall that serves no purpose but to fill a campaign promise. some democrats are answer antsy. democrats just in virginia that

suddenly have a lot of constituents that work for the government. it is whoever is the reasonable party trying to find a solution that comes out ahead, and certainly the only people with leverage are democrats not republicans. but i think republicans will have a hard time holding the line if there is a reasonable solution there to open the kboth and achieve michael security. this will be about who gets credit for finding the way out. i thought that was interesting. and you're no democrat either, which proposal is more reasonable? what the democrats did in your mind or what president trump offered on saturday?

>> i think what the democrats did is the most reasonable approach. it is the truth, the reality, about 800,000 americans not working. the families and businesses not impacted. i was talking to folks in the maryland community and those businesses are hurting. real people are hurting, so the idea that you're putting people back to work first and then negotiating the politics, that is the winning strategy and i think that is something that nancy's counter proposal, really putting the onus back in that negotiation. >> let's keep in mind the a symmetry in this. democrats are saying open the government, that is why the public by such a lob sided margin -- >> and also funding border security. >> riddle me this, i do think at

this point the country is looking for who is trying to sol the problem. is there a danger of looking too petty on the state of the union business? >> by telling the president you can't give your state of the union while the government is shut down, i think that is pretty reasonable. you're asking federal workers to work so the president can come give a campaign peach brspeech e government. >> is this an unvitation. >> the state of the union speech has been canceled by nancy

pelosi because she doesn't want to hear the truth, she doesn't want the american public to hear what is going on. the super left, the radical democrats, what is going on in that party is shocking. >>. >> they're doing both things today. i think their often looks good to the public. like it is ridiculous, there may be a saying that you're arguing over this? with why aren't you talking about is this? >> i don't think the president will be able to let this one go. not in the last two -- >> do you think she set a trap? >> i think she is beating him to go after her on the wrong topic. it dnd happen last year with

speaker ryan. nancy pelosi can say no to the president and he has no ability to move her. >> and she's saying no on two things so intertwined to his ego. number un, border wall, number two, the ability to look down on congress and speak to them. >> donald trump knows how to snatch defeat from victory like no other president i have ever seen. i will play for this sound like, michael steele, why can't the president take that, declare victory, and go home. take a listen. >> walls are primitive. what we need to do is have border security, use technology, use scanners, use x-ray equipment, if his $5.7 billion is about border security, then we see ourselves fulfilling that

request doing what i like to call using a smart wall. >> okay, bill clinton could have said look what i got, i got the other party talking about border security, funding me, and even calling it a wall, right? for the life of me, this president does not know how to declare victory. >> no, because it is personal. the moment you push lack on his original idea, he will fight you tooth and nail on that idea. remember we're in a space where at one point the president did refer to it as a virtual sort of wall where you had all of this stuff. he moved, he moved, but he won't admit that he moved. >> he also had the wall on a silver plate. it was an enormous concession.

he says he wants anyway. >> i buy the fact that he doesn't know what his end game is. what is her end game? >> her end game is to open the government and fund border security. he doesn't -- the normal political pressures that would work with anyone else do not necessarily work with him, what does that look like? >> i think it will be more members of congress. you can see mitch mcconnell moving, that is not exactly true any more. tomorrow they will take some votes. i think you see people trying to find a solution to this. the president doesn't have the lev reasonable. >> is there any danger here if the president says oh, great,

thanks. if he saysly take that $5.7 welco billion, smart wall, whatever. >> the president is losing this fight. >> dcs aemocrats are on the rec supporting technology, scanners, different ways to security ports of entry. the $5.7 billion is not to build a physical structure along the united states. that is the imagery. >> if it looks like a wall and sound u.s. likes like a wall. >> a wall mexico is supposed to pay for. >> the state of the yunion

argument distracts from the point she wants to make. >> that is the state of the union armt, step on that. >> we're not going to allow you to do something you don't want to do. she is for opening the government, that is the message today. we will find a solution. we're not going to fund a symbolic thing that you campaigned on but we will do what is best for the country and fund border security, but let's open government first. >> the right may go there and use that and try to keep their troops united. that would pass the senate with probably 30 republicans. >> it is hard unless you're just trying to stand by the president. >> two votes in the senate

tomorrow, probably no democraticic support. it could have gotten two or three democrats had they not done that little poison pill addendum. >> the second one will be more interesting president trump plan will have failed. will they vote for a clean funding bill. i would keep my eye on susan collins collins. >> but tell me about rob portman and rob toomi. if everyone else is going, they will be there. at the same time they straddle the fence. they have to worry about their own bases. that is a problem in their states. >> you can't count to 60 without a toomi or a portman.

>> that's what i'm looking for. when will they break down this whole process. here is the truth of it. i don't think that happens to your point, stefanie, about coming around on this until we get to the middle of february. ewe talking three pay periods for workers. >> it is three pay periods for workers, but look at what president trump's own cea advisor said today, every week that goes by that we have a shut down we're loosing .1% of growth. we could have zero growth, it will drive us into a recession. >> that is such a key point, there is no greater danger for the president's reelection than the economy going south.

it could really change his opinion on the wall. >> it is remarkable he doesn't already believe that. and ronald reagan, you're watching, you cannot appear before congress because the president and rudy giuliani are threatening his family. we'll talk to a top democrat in that committee that was supposed to question cohen next. there is something called a subpoena and u.s. marshalls. a subpoena and u.s. marshalls. i't to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth.

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and the army taught me a lot about commitment. which i apply to my life and my work. at comcast we're commited to delivering the best experience possible, by being on time everytime. and if we are ever late, we'll give you a automatic twenty dollar credit. my name is antonio and i'm a technician at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. welcome pack, michael cohen is trying to delay his public

testimony. in a statement, they still expect cohen to appear and some democrats have floated the idea of a subpoena. they sent a let tore oliver north wanting to know about john bolten's contacts with the nra including the alleged russian spy. we have jerry connolly, congressmcongres congressman, great to be with you, sir. let me ask you about first, what is the state of our -- what is the state of the union. >> dicey right now. my meeting was a meeting with the german foreign minister and the speaker. we talked about it.

>> let me go to oversight. when will you make a decision about whether or not to subpoena, is this an attempt to get michael cohen to come back voluntarily. michael cohen and his lawyer had the desire to come before our committee. he has experienced threats after the and the family is really reluctant to have the family appear in public and testify as planned as long as there is a cloud of threat over their heads. >> do you believe it is a legitimate fear? >> i believe the president knows

full well and so does rudy jo e juligiuliani that in this volat political environment you can speak code, you can make references, and you can intimidate them and generate threats. it is just the kind of political climate we life in now. i think he has genuine reason to be concerned. >> what accommodations are you open to making for him on this, putting it under, taking it out of the public square? what acome daugss do you think are reasonable for his safety? >> i think it is still a desirable thing to have michael cohen testify in public under oath to try to tell us much of the whole narrative as he can so the public can hear in one case,

both in he is role, the campaign, and with mr. trump himself. we have to be sensitive, the security concerns, we have not had a chance to sit down with his attorney and go through them in detail. >> bottom line is if he doesn't agree to come, you will subpoena him so he will be testifying in if he sa february? >> i don't speak for the committee but that is my preference. i think we need to testimony before he goes to jail. >> if he is in jail it doesn't preclude you from bringing him in front of congress, right? my understanding is that he could be snuffly released to testify and then taken back. >> that has done before, yeah,

it's not desirable but it is an option. >> do you understanding of if the special council indicated there are areas you cannot kwe mr. cohen on or he will respond that he can't answer that. >> to the best of my knowledge they have not responded to our committee in detail about that. those communications are on going. we expect to have more detail soon and the committee will meet and agree to growth rules because of the mueller investigation. >> you sent the letter to the head of the nra, but you were asking specifically about john bolten's time doing some events for the nra that involved russia, what is it that you fear

may be happening? what is your suspicion here that you feel like this is necessary? >> i think there is a lot of questions to which we don't have answers. starting with what is the interest of a foreign government in the national rifle association? why would they be penetrating the nra? to what extend did russia influence messaging or political campaigning by the nra, which is a big force in american politics, and is there russian money involvemented. >> what does john bolten have to do with this? he appeared at an event, are you targeting him specifically. is there suspicion of him or is it because he is the president's national security advisor. >> i think mr. bolton had a lot of appearances with the nra, and

they want him to clarify what role did you play and did you have any association with russian figures? >> do you any indication of mr. bo bolton, i guess he could duck you. >> just a wild guess that he will not cooperate. >> fair enough. let me close with shut down. the offer today of $5.7 billion. pretty much all of the money you asked but you can't use it for a new barrier. why make that offer? >> let me say personally i think it is a generous offer. not one they would have made, i would reluctant i will be willing to support it if we could get government open again and the american people being served again. i think it is a generous offer. >> why do you think it is too

generous? >> that number just has a funny ring to it, $5.7 billion. i think we need to look at the real needs and make the dollar decisions based on the needs. you don't do it the other way around, you don't decide a dollar figure and then fill in the blapgs how wiblanks how wil work. they want to provide a basis for a possible negotiation for the shut down and a reasonable one. we'll meet you more than halfway. we just won't build the wall. >> are you comfortable with the decision to uninvite the president to the house chamber. >> i am because of separation of powers here. no one has a right to come to the house of representatives and speak. they do that by invitation and the house chamber is controlled by the speaker.

and if mr. trump wants to test that, i think he will be very embarrassed. the lights will be out, the doors locked, no one to greet hum, and no one in the galleries. you know this is a separate but coequal branch of government and he needs to get used to that fact. >> i think he is learning that a little more every single day thank you for coming out and sharing your views. coming up, new buzz about a new plan b. we'll be right back. a new plan b we'll be right back.

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welcome back tonight, remember that b list i told you about? the b list buzz is growing. >> it is time for a new generation of leadership in the country. >> a new member of the b team. it is buttigieg. that is right, pete buttigieg, going thankfully by just pete. the 37-year-old democratic rising star first got on to the national scene when he ran for dnc chair. now she officially declaring a 2020 run for president. >> we're the generation that lived through school shootings,

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the president's former personal lawyer is backing out because of threats from the president and the president's current personal lawyer rudy julian oul giulia giuliani, but their relationship may be on the rocks. people say the president was angry after rudy suggested that he was probably trying to score a deal with russia throughout the entirety of the campaign. the president has not said or tweeted aou giuliani. joining me now is gabe sherman. the panel is also back. as you and i know, there is trump and trump people. where are you on this? do you feel this is real trump

anger or is this people around trump that want him to get angry. >> i have not spoken to the president myself about this. i spoke to people that spoke to him. they say he has been very frustrated and agitated at rudy's tendency to be a loose cannon and weakening his defense. but his silence is notable as you said the president did not tweet in support or tojuliaewe ru rudey giuliani. >> you have a good pulse from that new york trump world about how he is managing all of this.

i mean between shut down and giuliani, is anyone in toward of any of this or is it just him just going, you know, every day the way he likes to do it. i have no idea, i have no plan, let's play the day out. >> one of trump's longest serving confidents is really the circle of people around the president has grown so small that it is just the family at this point, you know? new and acting chief of staff mick muvaney is not trying to bring any structure or order to the white house. this is donald trump consulting with jared kushner and others. this is the president basically prelancing his entire white house strategy when it comes to the shut down and his own legal defense. >> it is interesting sahil noted

that the president may be frustrated, but he knows that rudy is having some success on the political front, perhaps, even if lily politicalilpolitic a train wreck. >> a lot of this is born from the fact that this buzz feed story about the president ordering his lawyer and fictioner to lie to congress was disputed by the special council. then giuliani went on air to contradict the president. history keeps repeating himself and jougiuliani has had to keep

doing this. literally he will tell the next person that juligiuliani doesn' know what he is doing. that happens quite a bit. >> which is why i'm not as exercised about some folks are about this whole thing with rusy. the one thing that ronald -- ronald, it that rudy brings to the table is that he will go on television and say exactly what donald trump wants said. when you stek back from everything about what the special council said, rudy comes out and you think he is messing up a good news story, no, he is doing what trump wants, planting doubt and con vufusion in the process. >> that is totally on point. gi

defending the president even if sometimes she stepping in it. also another long time confident spoke to me and said you can't fire someone your not paying. rudy juliani -- julianewe is dor free. >> i'm going to move to michael cohen. here is the president earlier today on the news that michael cohen for now said that he doesn't want to testify. >> i would say he has been threatened by the truth. he has only been threatened by the truth and he doesn't want to do that probably for me or other clients. he has other clients also, aassume, and he doesn't want to tell the truth for me or other of his clients. >> it seems to me that michael cohen is sort of the first witness. whatever you want to call it, he will be known as the first one. there is some risk to it with

michael cohen. who do you believe? he was known to make his own share of threats to reporters through the years and now he is feeling @ othit the other way. >> i'm not a spupporter of michael cohen, but i think his testimony to congress will likely, given that he is not yet in jail, just a little under six weeks away from going to jail, still working out his deal and what he will get out of this, he will not go out to congress and say something that he has not already said to robert mueller. i think people are preconditioned to believe that something went on here, that the president, you know, it is now known that he did give hush money, so he is not going up there to prove his innocence or

truthfulness, he is just going to tell his story. what did he know and when did he know it? >> this will be for many americans sort of the first time they get a sense of him. >> of michael cohen. >> sure. >> yeah, the first time he is cross examined. >> but he has been trying to discredit him all along. >> and she going to jail for that. on a scale from one to ten, how fearful are they of michael cohen? >> at least a seven. he was donald trump's fixer. he taped the president, he was in many significant meetings and he knows where the perverbial

bodies are buried. up next, getting schooled in a new age of empowered teachers. . ♪ lookin' better than a body has a right to ♪ ♪ and shakin' me up so applebee's all you can eat is back. now with shrimp. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ♪ when you have nausea, ♪ heartburn, ♪ indigestion, ♪ upset stomach, ♪ diarrhea... girl, pepto ultra coating will treat your stomach right.

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a lot of disdain has been dumped on american teachers in the last decade, but they're getting a little respect again when it comes to fighting school boards. yesterday los angeles school teachers ended a strike with something that sounds like victory. they got a parade, but they got the school board to agrow ee top the number of charter schools which some people think is a great threat to public education. the strike in west virginia, a bit of a spark, a state where union party has been diminishes where it helped kick off a national movement. and now yesterday, in fact, these teacher unions continue to

be emboldened. it would be the first teacher strike there since 1994. perhaps that are hoping they will be saying the same thing they said in l.a., "teacher, i need you." "teacher, i need you." deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment.

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it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ welcome back. time for the lid. stephanie, this is a 2020 presidential race. we've created a section of our show to remind us of it. stephanie, this is amazing. if you told me that warren, gillibrand, harris would already be in and the race doesn't feel like it's started yet, i would say that's crazy. those are three of the higher profile people, yet i'm trying to figure out, what if you haven't gotten in yet. how do you get oxygen now? what's your sense? >> i think mayor pete got en. he's getting some oxygen. >> a little bit but not the

same. each announcement, the air gets a little bit thinner, doesn't it? >> maybe. i don't think we know what's to come yet. everybody has to find their own space in this race. i was very impress with senator harris's rollout over the weekend and how she did it and her timing. i think people are trying to think through the logistics and tactics of that so their message breaks through about what their space is. >> michael, what have you learned so far from those that announced? >> what i've learned is they are shaky on what they are footing politically and their message. >> who is least shaky so far? >> least shaky, to be honest with you, i think elizabeth warren. >> she knows why. >> she knows why she's running. the others are going to be playing catchup to her. to your point, stephanie, i think what's going to be interesting to me is not who gets in but who doesn't get in. i still think there will be

surprises there. to your point about the air being thinner, wait until some of the bigger dogs on the block decide to come in and see how that air pans over for everybody else. >> to me we at least have two big dogs. elizabeth warren and kamala harris were always big dogs. then you have beto. >> you have a few others out there. >> getting an early show, confidence, if you're someone with less name recognition you have to do it early in a field this big. if you're joe apartheiden or bernie sanders, you have latitude to wait. rollouts, none of them are emphasizing president trump in their initial pitches. they know that the democratic base is sick of him. there's trump fatigue. there's no way to distinguish yourself by going after the president. warren did a 4:30 minute video and didn't mention. they aren't emphasizing this

person in their pitches. >> what's the most interesting lane that's still open that's winnable. the real crowd in the progressive lane. is there room for that oi don't want to call it centrist but pragmatic democrat. >> i think there's room for a govern governor. i think there's -- >> you buy a mayor, garcetti. >> this will be the most diverse, broadest class of democrats running for president than we've ever seen in our lifetime. the i think the discussion around that and the contributions to that discussion for every candidate, whether you're a big dog or somebody just getting in is incredibly valuable for this party. >> is it an asset to have the campaign be so overshadowed right now by shutdown and trump? >> sure. oh, yeah. >> you get the little mistakes won't get noticed maybe right away. >> that's exactly right. guess what you'll be talking

about here on "meet the press." you could be talking about them. all things in a normal political cycle playing out with these candidates getting in as early as you are, of course, the press, their political opponents would begin to dissect them before anyone got in the race. the idea, you want to thin the herd before it gets thicker. >> if you need oxygen, it's a liability. if you're a big dog that wants to deprive everybody of oxygen, it's an asset. >> let's remember we're only in the third week of january. this is a marathon, not a sprint. there's going to be lots of phases of this campaign. >> i've got to ask you about this purity test. beto o'rourke dinged in a times story about not supporting a democrat for congress and now joe biden, a paid speech, stephanie. somehow not helping the republican fred upton. where is the line of you've got to be a good democrat versus

this is getting ridiculous. what's your line on that? >> my line. >> your line would be in a different place than the partied line. >> my line is if you served in the senate, how many year in the senate. >> 36. >> vice president. >> saying nice things about fred upton. >> it's okay. there are republicans joe biden worked with through the course of his career. i worked with ted kennedy who made his name partnering with republicans to get things done. that should not be a liability in pl particulars. but if you're running for a democratic nominee and are hyper, hyper polarized environment that could be a liability. >> i saw that in your party. how did it work? >> not too well. there's no good side to those purity tests. they oftentimes while the candidates themselves get bit, ultimately it bites the party with the public. that for the democrats is a sensitive sweet-spot going forward. >> the base is sensitive to this

going forward. i get it. i don't want to be dismiss of it. fred upton barely won. will herd barely won. i understand there's bitter democrats in those districts. >> there's a reason for this apology tour vice president biden and senator gillibrand had a conservative record to go through because the base is hungry for leftward populous ideas and wants diverse representation that looks like rising coalition, minorities, obama coalition. >> it's fascinating, the democratic party of the '90s versus today. two different there's. >> definitely, mike, thank you very much. great show. we'll be right back. great show we'll be right back.

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that's all we've got tonight. we'll be back with more mtp daily. i'm giving it to you because i've got to get get me some popcorn. >> do it. go get your popcorn. we're excited, chuck. tonight looks to be a good evening. i mentioned on last night's show we're doing something on the mueller probe tonight that we've never done before. we don't think anyone has done it. we're going to interview four witnesses from the russia probe live together. you can see them seated ready to come on. three donald trump aides. one target. i'm going to ask them about their interviews with the mueller team, contacts with the russians. big michaeloh