on "the beat." person one we have been talking about today, he's back on the beat. i'm sure we will have a lot to discuss. you should also know as a loyal viewer, i hope you are, ali velshi will be back in this seat monday. thank you for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hello, everyone. it's 4:00 in washington, d.c., where you can feel the twin breaking news tsunamis swamping everything else today. the trump government shutdown reaching a catastrophic crescendo on day 35. there have been crippling delay at our nation's airports. federal workers have gone unpaid for a month. and the politics of donald trump's unwanted and unpopular border wall forcing him to capitulate and reopen the government today without a single dollar committed to his beloved border wall. >> i am very proud to announce today that we have reached a deal to end the shutdown and reopen the federal government.

as everyone knows, i have a very powerful alternative, but i didn't want to use it at this time. >> the bill to officially reopen the government at least temporarily could hit the president's desk any time now. we will bring you any updates as soon as we get them. but we start with the big news out of the mueller investigation today. donald trump's longest serving political adviser, roger stone, charged with seven counts, including obstruction of justice, making false statements to congress and the fbi and witness tampering. stone was arrested in his ft. lauderdale home and later released on bond. the 24-page indictment filling in pager pieces of the trump-russia cord natiordinatioe and exposing new details how information flowed between wikileaks, which the president's own secretary of state once described as a hostile

intelligence service embedded by russia to the trump campaign. from the indictment -- quote, during the summer of 2016 stone spoke to senior trump campaign officials about organize one, wikileaks and information it might have had that would be damaging to the clinton campaign. stone was contacted by senior trump campaign officials to inquire about future releases by organization one. today's indictment also setting off a frenzied effort to figure out who the unnamed senior trump campaign official is named in this paragraph. quote, after the july 22, 2016 release of stolen dnc e-mails by organization one -- that's wikileaks again -- a senior trump campaign official was directed to contact stone about any additional releases and what other damaging information organization had regarding the clinton campaign. today's indictment brings to six the number of top trump adviser charged in connection with the russia probe. it should surprise no one that

the president couldn't resist weighing in, in his only tweet of the day so far. i will read it to you. greatest witch-hunt in the history of our country. no collusion. but stone today wasted no time today reassuring the president he has no plans to flip in mueller's probe. >> i am troubled by the political motivations of the prosecutors, and as i have said previously, there is no circumstance whatsoever under which i will bear false witness against the president, nor will i make up lies to ease the pressure on myself. >> here to take us through the day's dramatic developments and explain how they further our understanding of the mueller investigations, some of our favorite reporters and friends, from "the new york times" mike schmidt, former u.s. attorney joyce vance. here with us at the table jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia and pentagon. matthew miller's back, former chief spokesman at the department of justice. national political reporter for

axios, jonathan swan is here, and former democratic congresswoman donna edwards, now a contributing columnist for "the washington post" joins us. mike schmidt, let's start with you, i believe you have the fist reporting and some of it may have been cited in this indictment today about communications between roger stone and the campaign. talk about how today's indictment furthers our understanding of what those communications and contacts look like? >> the interesting thing about the indictment is we knew a lot of what was in there. this is about discussions that the campaign had with stone. stone was claiming to have inside information about what wikileaks had, and it seemed like the campaign was fairly receptive to that, stone communicating with steve bannon about it in the summer of 2016. and the most interesting thing that we learned today, the newest thing, was that stone had been directed by someone at the campaign to go out and to make contact with wikileaks. that was the newest piece of information.

that shed the most light on why stone may have been thrust into this position. the indictment did not identify who that person was. it did not say -- it didn't say which campaign official it was or how this message got to him, but that was the newest thing because so much of stone, stone had been out there. he said so many things over the past two months about this matter. so that's what we learned. >> and are there any theories about who that campaign -- how many people were above some of the senior and with as long as a history of roger stone was in the president's orbit? >> lock, we know that he's probably his longest-serving adviser. many, many decades with someone who pushed him early on to run for president. it was not a very big campaign, and it seems like, you know, a lot of folks that were closest to the president knew what each other was doing. i'm not going to sit here and speculate about, you know, whether it was the president or

not or whether it was anyone else close to the president, but look, this was not a very big campaign. it was not a very big operation. >> matthew miller, can i get you to speculate -- >> i don't want to speculate but i will. we obviously don't know but i think there's a little tell in the way the mueller team wrote this i dietment, especially this reference to a senior campaign official having been directed. usually when you read these indictments, it will be senior director one and official two. it's weird they say an unnamed person. >> explain that. >> the point is the doj policies when you write these indictments not to identify people not being charged. if you were to write -- let's say it was the president who directed a senior campaign official to do that, he's not a senior campaign official, he's the candidate. if you write candidate one, it's quite obvious we're talking about because there's only one candidate on the trump campaign, it's donald trump himself. i suspect what that means it was

the president who directed -- in terms of who they were drikin directing, but you have to ask how about bob mueller know about this? this seems to be a conversation when you look at the people he interviewed, people cooperating, people on the campaign who cooperated for some time. obviously paul manafort was very close to roger stone, they were business partners. there was a while he was cooperating and we know he did go into the grand jury. it's certainly possible it's him but possible it's other senior campaign officials as well. >> jeremy, this campaign indictment today carries off the seedy underbelly -- not that the whole campaign wasn't seedy, but this is the seediest part of the trump campaign, corsi stone operation, but to suggest donald trump was involved in the seediest aspects of his life, his business and his campaign would be to ignore we now have the federal government sponsoring information that he directed the hush emergency scheme. the seedy aspects of politics, that's all he got.

>> trump was a tactical player. he pr'd a person, a journalist, if you remember that. how bad was this for the president? it was so bad that all he wanted to do was avoid the cave on the shutdown, except if he could wag the dog and change the narrative. so it had to be pretty bad for him to avoid the cave and actually go ahead and cave on that. so he wags the dog, tries to change the story by doing this deal on the hill. i think the big picture -- >> and he gets nothing. gives away everything. >> but i think the big picture here is what this indictment really flushes out is the russians were running two operations. first, financial ties with the trump administration, michael cohen and moscow deal and political ties with the trump campaign, the trump tower meeting, sanctions and adoptions and, of course, weky leaks dumps. this makes clear the wikileaks aspect and agent of the russian fedoration was clearly tied to

senior trump officials and maybe the candidate himself. >> one of the weird things that hand to the gop in 2016, there were a lot of weefrd things but one of the weirdest things was to see julian assange booked regularly on fox news. to see people like shawn hannity, who followed pre-trump normal god traditions of being tougher on russia, to see in this indictment today how completely knitted up julian assange's wikileaks was with the gop nominee's candidacy was remarkable. is there any one of the republican party thatp does the have amnesia, that can point to how bizarre it is to see a republican campaign coordinating with wikileaks? >> i haven't seen them today say anything. have we seen it? i'm not sure we've seen a single public condemnation of this. i do think that the july contact is really the key one. we all know that the october contact is bad, confirmed that today from a source close to

bannon and the same source had been told bannon has been told he's not a target. so the july contact and direction is the critical thing. trump better be hoping it's not paul manafort and second-tier operative. >> mike, let me ask you to pick up on that july contact and just fill in some of the details. this was the contact between roger stone and his intermediaries to wikileaks. what's the significance in terms of what was going on in the 2016 presidential campaign? >> obviously, that's a critical time because it's coming out that there had been the hacks. but i think more significantly as you sort of look at the president and look at this incident is these are questions that the president answered. the president when he turned in his answers back in november had to answer questions pre, when the election hand, pre-november. in that he had to answer about his contacts with stone and what he told stone. what we see today is mueller's understanding of what event. the real question is, did the

president's answers line up with how mueller sees this played down? and obviously mueller knows, he has the answers. we don't have the answers yet. but it was a key question that mueller wanted answered and one that the president actually filled in the answers to. >> joyce vance, let me ask you to broaden the lens a little bit on what mueller is doing. it would seem he's already charged the russian crime. he's charged over the summer 13 russians tied to russian intelligence services with meddling in our elections. we know vladimir putin's direction it was done to help donald trump, and people like yourself and chuck rosenberg have been explaining to people like me that what the open questions are is whether we can connect a dot to that crime, that conspiracy, to anyone in trump's orbit. it would seem that today we have documentation that the federal government believes there at a minimum coordination, contact and communication, but it seems to come short of charging a

conspiracy, is that an accurate read? >> i think that's exactly right. this is another one of the building blocks that mueller has been carry laying all along, that gru hacking indictment that charges 13 russian operatives of hacking, had a little bit of room to run in it. it identified clearly that there were americans that they were coordinating with but didn't tell us who those people were. now we know that one of those people was roger stone, who was talking with wikileaks. we'll have to wait for the next indictment, the next part of the narrative to see if it goes any further. again, mueller is dropping a number of strong hints saying there are people in the campaign who were directing stone or coordinating with stone. >> and if you want to understand just how bad wikileaks was, listen to mike pompeo, who ran the cia and now runs the state department in his own words. this is what wikileaks says -- oh, it's just a quote, i'm sorry.

this is mike pompeo, the sitting secretary of state, trump's viewed as very close ideologically to donald trump, who says this -- it is time to call out wikileaks for what it really is, a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like russia. so this seems to be the first sort of public example of some distance ideologically between the secretary of state and donald trump. here's how he describes wikileaks -- >> now this just came out, this just came out. wikileaks -- i love wikileaks! this wikileak stuff is unbelievable. it tells you the iinner heart. you got to read it. >> it's been amazing what's coming out on wikileaks. another one came in today. this wikileaks is like a treasure trove. as i was getting off the plane, they were just announcing new wikileaks and i wanted to stay there but i didn't want to keep you waiting. let me run back into the plane

and find out. boy, i love reading those wikileaks. this just came out. wikileaks. >> it's another example of the american president being more pro-russian propaganda than he is american national security. >> i think what happens when an indictment comes out and reads it to say is there conduct by the president to violate federal statue? i don't think that's the correct inquiry. is the conduct by the president candidate and president that violates his oath of office, because at the end of all of these deals, financial trees about trump tower moscow, political deals about wikileaks, conduct by the president in which his end of the bargain was enact the most pro-russia, pro-putin, ob see quious policy we have ever seen. if that's not a violation of his office, i don't know what is. >> mike schmidt, it's your reporting that revealed the fbi was so alarmed by incidents like this that they opened a counterintelligence investigation into the president. is it your understanding from

the incidents, pla the flash po you cited a couple weeks ago, his wikileaks might be viewed with the same skepticism? >> it was the statements on the campaign trail that first caught the fbi's attention. the fbi knew russia was trying to meddle in the election. they knew there had been outreach. they were looking at certain members of the campaign. and here you have the president, who was embracing a foreign policy position that was in complete opposite of where his party traditionally stood. and they didn't understand that. and what happens is that builds and builds and builds until he becomes president and then fires comey and the fbi sort of looks around at and they make the decision to go forward. but that's when it started. it starts with him on the campaign trail talking about this and his interest in this and why was he so favorable towards wikileaks and towards russia and the curious statements? >> donna edwards, it just seems like the picture, it's like one

of those illusions you fill in a little bit and suddenly you can see a face. it seems like the picture becomes clearer and clearer by the day. i nancy pelosi's comments this morning were she's very interested in all of these threads. the democrats are going to investigate. >> you see this is a puzzle and mueller is beginning to fill in the puzzle pieces from the indictments. and we're putting that together. i think what i heard actually from speaker pelosi was a reason to go to her caucus and say, slow your roll, that we're going -- hear what comes out of the mueller report. we're going to conduct our investigations so they aren't interfering with mueller and that will get us to the truth. i actually think that was a gift in some ways for pelosi today, where there were increasing calls within the caucus for more aggressive investigation and even impeachment. it does strike me that in a campaign like donald trump's, most campaigns, even intense

congressional campaigns, there are layers of staff between what happens on a day-to-day basis and the candidate and the trump campaign was completely the opposite of that. not even just of presidential campaigns. and this is where trump gets into trouble, because there's no way he can continue to distance himself from the decisions that were made with respect to whatever went on with russia. >> it's a good point about how the campaign ran. you think about how he micro managed every utterance. if he didn't like a surrogate, they were off today. i worked on three presidential campaigns, i'm not sure the candidates who knew all of their surrogates were. donald trump watched everything. the idea they would have taken his own son and son-in-law would be meeting with russians to get dirt on hillary and that would be one thing don was cut out on. >> trump was most interested in the dirt on hillary. and trump himself is someone who is driven by media and whenever stories would come up about new wikileaks, he devoured them.

he was always asking for gossip and picking people's brains. so it does stretch the imagination to think that there was this one area where he was, you know, willfully oblivious. >> joyce vance, when you hear roger stone today after being charged with seven criminal counts say, i'll never -- i'll never flip on the president or whatever he said, what do you hear? do you hear someone who's been promised a pardon? >> i hear someone who's speaking to an audience of one and asking for a pardon, hoping that there's a pardon at the end of the rainbow. there's no other reason for stone to go out today after indictment and pledge allegiance to the ultimate target of this investigation. >> and here was the president responding to the kinds of things roger stone has said in the past about never turning. this from december 3rd -- i will never testify against trump. this statement was recently made by roger stone essentially

stating he would not be forced by a rogue and out-of-control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about president trump. nice to know some people still have guts. matt miller, this was about the time i believe the manafort situation became particularly hairy, cohen had been sentenced. this seems to be channeling, i will treat more favorably those who do not cooperate with the federal bureau of investigations that i ostensibly oversee. >> they had been blowing kisses at each other publicly for months. it it's strange, if their lawyers had gotten together and made an explicit bargain well, if he doesn't testify against the president, the president will give him a pardon, that would be blatantly illegal. it would be -- just blatant obstruction of justice. but instead they've done it publicly, this wink and a nod. oh, i know roger stone will never testify against me and roger stone comes out and says i will never testify against you. it's obvious what's going on. i don't know if all of the timing works out. roger stone will go in trial in a year and by sentencing, he

could have to spend a few months in jail. >> president pence -- >> it's hard to see the president granding a pardon before the election campaign but if you see the time he's defeated or re-elected, you could. >> politically the party itself will trigger action by the congress against the president and the president never really acts against his own interests. so i don't really know how far i would take that. >> there's another dimension we're forgetting, it's not these os tenacious shows of loyalty are just directed at a pardon, but there's a market for that. you look at michael cohen, who has taken the opposite bet, that he os ten stashsly tells people he's reregistered as a democrat and dedicated to bring down the president, he somehow may emerge as the hero of the resistance. it ain't going to happen. he's still michael cohen. roger stone if you look at the instagram account he's building the maga crowd, pro-trump crowd,

i'm steadfastly standing by our guy. who knows, if there's a roger stone defense fund required, would you have a most healthier fund-raising base than with michael cohen. >> and close jail cells. reporting on pardons dangled in front of other witnesses, what do you make of the pardon conversations, the tweets? do you see that as part of that effort? >> the inherent problem in all of this stuff is the president controls the executive branch and controls the justice department. he has the power of pardon and this investigation touches him. until the investigation is over, every time that someone around him is charged, the question will come up, it will continue to come up around manafort. it even came up around flynn, even though he accepted a plea and agreed to the cooperate with the government. obviously with stone, somebody he's known his whole life, i think we will continue to see more of it. after the break, the trump/russia time line. how today's indictment of roger stone brings into focus key flashpoints in the russian investigation. also ahead, the shutdown or

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today's indictment of roger stone filling in key blanks in the trump/russia timeline. if you remember it was may 2016 when the dnc found out it had been hacked. then according to today's indictment in june and july, roger stone told senior trump campaign officials about the stolen e-mails that were in wikileaks possession, e-mails he described as being potentially damaging to hillary clinton. then on july 22, wikileaks

releases its first batch of stolen e-mails. and here's the big one, at some point after july 22, a quote, senior trump campaign official was directed by someone else to ask stone what other information wikileaks might have. five days after those e-mails were released, this happens -- >> but it would be interesting to see, i will tell you this, russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. let's see if that happens. that will be next. >> testing your faith in coincidences there. we know from a previous mueller indictment that russian intel operatives launched a new attack on clinton's e-mails that very day. fast forward now to october 3rd, again from today's indictment, we know stone got another tip that another e-mail dullp would happen the next day. he then e-mailed a contact in

the trump campaign, writing, quote, spoke to my friend in london last night, the payload is still coming. here it is four days later on october 7th, literally hours after the release of "the access hollywood" tape, wikileaks began dumping the documents it stole from john podesta. an unidentified person close to steve ban non texted stone, wel done. matt miller? >> it all seems like a coincidence to me. >> there are no coincidences. >> of course not. >> i believe that clip you paid of trump in the campaign is the most damaging piece of evidence. if we had him quietly sending this through an intermediary, we would think the investigation is over. but he did it publicly. i think you're right about the timeline being put together in a robust fashion, particularly in the early days. we find out in the indictment it is in and around june or jewel

they told the campaign wikileaks had damaging information about hillary clinton. it wasn't released until july 22. the rest of the world didn't find out until july 2. it's unclear to me, and we assume mueller knows but he hasn't told us yet, how long roger stone knew about that information before anybody else. now you have the president when he's making that statement to vladimir putin, he's not just acting on the public information he has but private information from roger stone. it's incredibly damning. >> let me add around this time rob gold stone was setting up a meeting at trump tower on behalf of the russian government delegation that was flying over new york to meet with the high command of the trump campaign. those e-mails from rob goldstone started in early june. don jr. and jared kushner and paul manafort and presumably others in the senior ranks of the campaign and presumably the candidate himself knew after the meeting there would be support from the russian government including hacked e-mails. that was discussed.

the idea somehow they weren't aware of it or this was just roger stone accounti roger stone acting on his own, i think today's indictment takes that back. >> let's not pretend this could be a coincidence, the day the bleep comes out they happen to be ready to go, locked and loaded, are you kidding me? >> it's hard to imagine. in fact one of the smaller pieces of new information in the indictment, i think they call him an social of a trump supporter who on the day the "access hollywood" tape comes out and wikileaks dump was released this reporter texts roger stone, well done. whether he was actually directing it or not, certainly the people inside the trump campaign thought he was. >> i agree with matt. the third thing that hand that day is the director of national intelligence and director of had is

public security linked it to the russians. >> oh, my, they were swamped by the dnc hack. joyce vance, do you agree from a legal perspective the president's face and voice on that tape saying russia, if you're listening, find those e-mails and you'll be rewarded handsomely by our press, is that some sort of smoking gun from a legal perspective? >> you know, matt miller may not be a pros irbut he does a pretty effective job channeling the way we think. it's a damaging piece of evidence, and here's the reason, what we're looking at here is conspiracy, there has to be some kind of agreement, meeting of the minds among co-conspirators. but that doesn't have to be an in-the-room handshake. it can be something done in a different way. it can be an indirect agreement. it could even be someone on television saying, okay, russia, i know what you've got. let's go ahead and bring it on. but it's important to note that that piece of evidence the president on tape alone isn't enough because we do need to

have as prosecutors some indication that it's a meeting of the minds, not just two people running on parallel tracks. still, i've always found it to be very compelling. >> donna, it is so amazing for a campaign that didn't have a lot of standards for the people that it brought into his campaign, is that fair? >> i would say the requirements of the top-tier candidate, top ten, yes. >> you had to be one thing, down with vladimir putin's russia. >> and you had to be willing apparently to contact them. when i hear this and roger stone saying never, never, never, all i think is never until whenever. and then it makes me look at this and say, well mueller has more than -- he doesn't just need roger stone. he has documentary evidence, he has text messages and e-mails and other testimony. and so the president is not going to be able to escape all of that. >> i just want to say the conspiracy need not be an

agreement by donald trump and vladimir putin to do this whole thing with hacking and dumping. the conspiracy might have been the russian federation says we're going to help the campaign and donald trump said i'm going to affect u.s. foreign policy if i'm elected president. lo and behold, that's exactly what has hand. >> it's what he does day in and day out. >> he's held up his end of the bargain. crashing nato, defending the soviet invasion of afghanistan, giving them cover of annexation. >> resisting on a dale yeah basis and not holding them to account for sergei scrippoff. >> the president thinks he can pardon himself. joy vance, thank you. rns when we come back, is the longest shutdown in u.s. history over or simply on pause? that's next. with my hepatitis c, i felt i couldn't be at my best for my family. in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. i faced reminders of my hep c every day.

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donald trump today took to the rose garden to wave a white

flag, agreeing to reopen the government for three weeks without funding for his border wall. a close trump alley yesterday predicted the president's surrender to nancy pelosi was imminent after he capitulated on the state of the union address. today's crippling delays at the nation's airport, stories of hardships among federal workers and undeniably awful politics of holding the government hostage over a wall no one other than ann coulter seems to want crashed down on the white house today but the relief for federal workers may be short lived. >> so let me be very clear, we really have no choice but to build a powerful wall or steel barrier. if we don't get a fair deal from congress, the government will either shut down on february 15th again, or i will use the powers afor theforded to me und laws and constitution of the

united states to address this emergency. >> now you like the laws. joining our conversation, phil rucker, white house bureau chief for "the washington post" and sam stein, senator for "the daily beast" on capitol hill. how did this happen? >> nicolle, it took a lot. we're 35 days into this shutdown and the president's numbers have been declining. there's been a revolt among republican senators yesterday and you have seen airport security delays and air traffic controllers calling in sick today. it all just accumulated to the point where the president realized he to reopen the government, he had no choice. theres a real blowback building here in his conservative base. we're already hearing -- i talked to a former white house official a short time ago who said trump got totally owned by nancy pelosi and that this is a devastating humiliation for him at this moment in his presidency. so there's a real -- it's going to be a difficult period here

for donald trump as he realizes that he doesn't have a single dollar for that wall. that could all change in three weeks but as of now, he's given up on the shutdown. the government is reopening and there's no money for the wall. >> jonathan? >> so as soon as did he this announcement, i got an unsolicited text from the former white house official and campaign official, quote, trump looks pathetic. he just seeded his presidency to nancy pelosi. trump -- so this all came together very quickly this morning, nick mulvaney had a smaller, senior staff meeting in his office. equipment emwere sort of running around afterwards still in a bit of state of confusion how this was coming together but it did seem to be trump was going to reopen for a short period of time. >> what was it? do you know what it was? the airport scene this morning? >> it came out of a conversation between schumer and mcconnell. this is actually what schumer basically proposed. but really it was being humiliated on the senate floor. the republican bim got more

votes than the democratic bill. trump spent six weeks -- is it six weeks in shutdown, something like that, squandered economic growth to the point his economic adviser said we may have zero growth if this continues through the first quarter. obviously anxiety and financial stress among 800,000 federal workers and he got nothing, nothing. >> but he got this -- his poll numbers. >> it's a backlash now that's intense. >> we know he watches the polls. cares so much about his polls. he tried to get michael cohen to rig some. here's the approval over the shutdown, 37%, barely the entire trump base is with him over the shutdown. sam stein, you're on capitol hill, what do you know? >> in talking to democrats today, they are jubilant. they feel like they have wiped the floor clean. they feel like everything that they -- >> because they have. >> yeah, and there's almost like a weird shock within the party and among lawmakers here that they did so well. usually democrats tend to eat

their own and get chaotic internally and don't hold the line. but in this case everything sort of fell into place for them. it's being treated as a triumph for pelosi. still trying to figure out exactly why now for trump. what i was told is it wasn't the air traffic stuff this morning, that this really did happen last night when talks began to really began to happen serious between mcconnell and schumer. but again, what was it about trump -- what was it about those talks that led trump to say, you know what, i have endured enough? he sat on this deal -- he could have had this deal 35 days ago. instead he got the hooks of his eyes up, angered his opposition and ruined his poll numbers for nothing. >> for nothing. donna edwards, we do know more things about donald trump today. it's like a bully in elementary school, one they're revealed to be afraid of spiders, then you always know how to game them. we know donald trump is afraid of bad press and bad poll numbers. i'm not sure that's even a

revelation. nancy pelosi, the victor by every republican and democrat's analysis today. what does she do now being the dominant player in the trump/pelosi relationship? >> i think there's a couple of things. one, she demonstrated not just to the president but she demonstrated to her caucus the importance of holding together. i think that's going to serve them well throughout the trump presidency. but with respect to the president, i mean, she clearly is on top. when you look at this deal, it was totally predictable those two bills, of course they were going to fail. the democratic bill gets more votes. that meant it was the leaders, the democratic and republican leaders in the house and senate who were going to write this bill and trump is going to have to sign it whether he wanted to or not because of the failure in the senate. so i think this is a total victory for democrats, but it really bodes well for the future. >> phil rucker, this does feel like a watershed day. i'll put both stories under that

umbrella. in the mueller investigation, you've now got a trump associate in contact with a russian intelligence asset, and on the presidency, you now know that donald trump will always blink, when you take away the things he loves, tv time, state of the union, you can destabilize him, and when the poll numbers crater and you lose a vote, as jonathan swan said, the minority bill had more support than the majority bill, you've got him. how do they clean up and move forward from here? >> that's a good question, nicolle. it is a watershed moment for the presidency. looking at the debate with congress, it's the first time trump had a real check on his power as president. the first time he's had to deal with divided government and suffered a defeat from it. and it has to do with the core of his appeal as a candidate, which is that he was this master deal maker, this business wizard who could come to washington, deal with all of the knuckleheads in congress and make things work, make things

function. instead the government was shut down for 35 days. i'm thinking back to a quote from mike murphy, the republican strategist and outspoken trump critic, he told me last week it's like mcdonald's not being able to make a hamburger, this is how dangerous not having a deal on the border wall would be for donald trump and for his core political persona. going forward he's going to have to figure out in the next three weeks, can he somehow get money to build a wall, smart wall, whatever he wants to call it but show face and declare victory? if not, he may declare that national emergency. but that would be a huge mess and certainly a legal question as well as political one. but there are not a lot of options for the president right now. >> this was a "seinfeld" shutdown about nothing. but this is a "seinfeld" deal about nothing. it kicks the can down the road. the president will declare a national emergency, an abuse of

power, and he's taking billions of dollars from the united states military and telling them to build concrete slabs. this is a terrible moment for our presidency and our country. >> let me play christopher wray -- this did become a homeland and national security crisis. let me watch this with you. >> making some people stay home when they don't want to and making others show up without pay, it's mind-boggling, it's shortsighted, and it's unfair. it takes a lot to get me angry, but i'm about as angry as i have been in a long, long time. sure, i get it. you're public servants and i know i can count on you to keep doing everything you can to help others however you can. but you're also people with bills to pay. you're also moms and dads. you've also got rent payments and mortgages, and utilities and car payments and gas and groceries to buy. and you can't put those worries aside just because you serve the public. >> sam stein, the fbi agents

association releasing a devastating report earlier in the week about how they couldn't take evidence to grand juries, they were losing informants because they couldn't refill their phone cards. there were serious national security consequences and it was ostensibly a border wall about security. the shutdown hurt our security. to see the president's fbi director really talking to his workforce but also talking to the president about being as angry as he can be on television is just surreal. >> it's surreal. let me just say, if that's as angry as christopher wray has been in a long, long time, he needs to emote better. he's pretty naturally calm in that clip. i was amazed that's the angriest he's ever gotten. but to your point, the irony, underlying irony of the shutdown is it was a shutdown on border security that made our situation on the border worse. there were agencies that could not hold conferences down on the border about border security. we had immigration courts overflowed with cases because we didn't have judges to handle

them. so everything that trump said the shutdown was about, he ended up hurting in the long run. now the question is what will happen in the next three weeks to make this not happen all over again? and basically no one really knows. the mood up here is like sort of cautiously optimistic and there's a lot of talk of trying to find a way to legislate a way to never have shutdowns again but that's not going to happen in three weeks. lawmakers have to figure out if there's some sort of fig leaf they can give trump where he says i got my security. but the real bet right now is he will do something akin to a national emergency and punt it to the courts. >> the picture of this west wing is more alarming than any other point and that's saying a lot. who's dead bodies are lying around the west wing? i know he trashed jared kushner, "the washington post" reported he disparaged jared kushner's expertise on immigration. this is nick mulvaney's first crisis he managed, jeremy said a shutdown about nothing, the president's poll numbers are in the gutter. who's running the west wing? >> yes, he did make that sarcastic comment about jared but really jared kushner has

accumulated an extraordinary amount of power and is involved chiefly in the congressional negotiations. but what i find when i talk to white house officials, even at a very senior level, people who when they used to have big, senior staff meetings in the roosevelt room, people in that room, they really don't know what's going on and it's a smaller and smaller group who actually do know what's going on. nick mulvaney, he's come in during a crisis. he brought some of his own people. he's doing the best he can with sort of a scrappy format. but, yeah, john kelly sort of strict churs that last a few months, they've completely disappeared. >> gets scarier. phil rucker, thank you for your reporting on the shutdown and being with us toe. it's been awesome. when we come back, another west wing scandal, how jared cube nesh gets his hands on materials and serious questions about the white house security clearances. clearances i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying

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an explosive new report shows another norm obliterated by the white house. jared kushner's application for a top secret laerclearance was rejected by to specialist after an fbi background check ruled there was potential outside influence on him. he was one of 30 cases where this super visor overruled security experts, something almost unheard of in the pre-trump era. >> generally if there are concerns that a foreign power might have leverage over you. you can think of a lot of things like meeting with a foreign ambassador. proposing setting up a secure back channel communication with the krem min that our own government can't monitor.

it is an incredible scandal if this one official to overrule, but this goes far beyond him. there are 30 officials at the white house. how many of them are still there. t top secret and above top secret security material. >> bending security rules for jared kushner is scary in an of itself. good on the officers for holding their ground on that, but that means he is conducting middle east diplomacy without the benefit of intelligence, how dangerous is that? >> we also now that she tehe is texting with foreign leaders, there is no way of capturing

them. the cia is also deprived. >> she a significant diplomat for our country. jared kushner is not eligible for that information. >> a couple things, one when john kelly was chief of staff, he was telling people that he is not going to get clearance. something is holding it up. and then he gets the clearance. and now i think we're seeing some of the pieces of this coming together. that's why the reporting last night was so important. i e-mailed jared kushner's lawyer because i was struck there was no comment from the lawyer or the white house. we still don't have a denial almost 24 hours later. they still have not denied it. it is a very serious report. >> let me ask you, jared

kushner's background check was never a smooth effort. any one of us that have filled out, that are difficult to fill out and he did it 100 times. >> it's transparency and openness, then no one has potential to blackmail you because you have been open about it. in this case he has been forced into transparency in some instances but we don't know it all. i think this point about the most critical information from the cia in these critical areas, he is in charge of middle east policy, negotiating iron aan, israel, and palestine, knowledge of what is going on from a security standpoint is very important. you can't make the decisions.

what will ep help us understand this, they said we're going to get to the bottom of how many people in the administration will operate in the circumstance for the clearance they need. >> jeremy said that jared kushner is conducted middle east diplomacy without the information he needs, i hope he is, i think that is one of the things that the house will have to uncover. we interpreted that he got security clearance is okay because erg is okay with the mueller investigation. maybe we read that wrong. >> do you awe agree? >> i think it is a dangerous and precarious for someone

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the washington bureau and we're so grateful to them. we're squatting in chuck todd's tuesday owe. >> i get to be in your studio a few times a week a as well. >> if it is friday, is president trump sinking like a stone? >> good evening, welcome here, it has been a bad day for this president. he had to cave on the shut down, the government will reopen temporarily and he gets nothing for his proposed wall. his long time associate roger