that's our show for today. am joy will be back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. up next, frances rivera has the latest. >> thank you so much good day from msnbc world headquarters in new york, 9:00 out west welcome to "weekends with alex witt." three big headlines this hour, a temporary solution to the shutdown but a bigger battle looms. new reaction moments ago from roger stone about his indictment plus, michael cohen and threats he says made him postpone his house testimony. the secrets of mar-a-lago and how president trump bought it for less than $3,000. how did that happen? the author of a new book about the president's gilded palace explains in minutes. but first, new this hour, long time trump friend roger stone emerging from his home in fort lauderdale one day after the

special counsel charged him. he spoke with nbc news just moments ago. >> this was egregious overreach by mr. mueller, the fbi director who had to have approved this raid should be fired over it because it was unwarranted i guess it's an effort to intimidate me, but i am not intimidated. the allegation that two campaign officials instructed me or inquired of me about wikileaks is false i expect they can get somebody to say that but they will be people with an ax to grind or seeking reduction in their sentence. >> stone was charged with seven counts of lying to congress, obstruction and witness tampering. stone's indictment goes further than before in trying to answer mueller's core question, did donald trump or his campaign collude with russia. a pressing question now emerging from the indictment, who

directed "a senior trump campaign official contact stone about what and when wikileaks was expected to release more potentially damaging information on hillary clinton." president trump denying any collusion and roger stone insisting he won't testify against the president. and earlier today, former trump campaign adviser michael capoue toe underlining stone's arrest was no surprise. >> we've been going through this fire drill, roger and i and his family and his lawyers since july when the first reporters called on a thursday night and said tomorrow you're going to be indicted, are you ready that went on thursday after thursday after thursday yesterday, roger was ready and everybody's in their places. >> joining me now a powerhouse panel of journalists, anneal schecter, investigator report, manuel with the west and shelby holiday, business and political reporter with the "wall street journal. she wrote several stories about

roger stone and the hacked e-mail shelby, you've been reporting on roger stone for a while now. is it clear from the roger stone indictment that someone in the trump campaign, potentially the president himself, committed a crimele? >> it will certainly looks that way. mueller went out of his way to say that stone was in touch with the trump campaign even after he left his official position in 2015 he maintained contact with the campaign someone was directed to get in touch with stone to get more information about the wiki leak dumps. it looks like somebody in the trump campaign trump himself perhaps is named in the indictment sam nunberg we've heard from they've been questioned about how frequently stone and trump communicated we've heard from the documentary makers of "get meet roger stone. that he was constantly writing memos to donald trump. they remained in touch throughout the campaign. that is significant. that many clip you played of roger stone is interesting

he's saying he's totally interesting and he's going to defeat them in court he likes to attack, attack if you look at the indictment, there are a number of statements he made clearly false that we've reported on throughout the year. for example, he told investigators in the house intel committee that he did not have the any written communications aboutule jan assange with his intermediaries he said he had one intermediary. all of those things show up in e-mails we've reported on and are provably false it will be interesting to see if he does plan to fight the charges. >> this clip from your report on "wall street journal."com. let's listen to it and talk about it. >> i actually have communicated with assange. >> did assange give you any info you've got to put it out now if you've got it. >> i'm not at liberty to discuss what i have. and i kind of have a foreshadowing. i was very specific in that i said that i had communicated

with mr. assange we have mutual acquaintance to is a fine gentleman. >> that speaks to your point exactly, roger stone clearly sold himself as having inside knowledge of wikileaks' plans and information. how does he argue his position on that now? >> he has walked that back and said i was bluffing. i claimed contact but i didn't really have it you also saw a noticeable shift in august. august is an important time period roger started saying he was in touch with assange in early august and started backtracking and said i'm in touch through an intermediary mueller makes it pretty clear that robler received information from jerome corsi but when roger talked to the house committee he told him it was randy credico. the timeline is important. in that video, you saw the text on screen from feskcally mueller's indictment they're probing whether or not stone had communication with

assange. this is important too, never in the indictment did mueller actually say that stone received specific information from wikileaks or that any information that stone wanted wikileaks to get actually got there. we don't have ha connection. >> you spoke to stone several times in the fall you. told him his name apparently get getting mentioned in the grand jury and suggested he might get indicted did flew part of this indictment take you by surprise >> the most important thing that we see in the indictment is that it will drives right into the it the trump campaign that's really what all of this is about making a connection between roger stone and high ranking officials in the trump campaign or trump himself i would point out that shelby is correct that trump and stone were in contact during the campaign we reported about all these late night phone calls that trump would make to roger stone.

they would appear on his stone as coming from an unknown caller and in that very key month in august had, when all of the wikileaks talking is bubbling in roger stone's text messages, he gets some information about wikileaks on august 2u8. on august 3rd, he talks to donald trump on the phone. >> i want to bringing this aspect of it, as well. it's part of your interview with him from last fall let's remind viewers about that. >> get indicted is, roger? >> i have no idea. i could be framed. this i can tell you, i don't believe that i will be charged in any crime that relates to russian collusion or wikileaks collaboration or john podesta's e-mails which i have no advance notice or notice or knowledge of i'm certainly guilty of bluffing

and posturing and punking the democrats. >> so he said he was just punking the democrats. is there a way to gauge exactly what truth is there here manuel >> well, his biggest defense will be that he's a braggart and exaggerates a lot and that he likes to go on television and tease reporters and mess with the democrats. whether a jury eventually will weigh that against some of these statements that seem to be in contradiction to the facts will be fascinating watch. >> yeah, and talking about these indictments, anna, i'm bringing you in they reflect roger stone's testimony to congress whether it's charges of lying or witness tampering. is there any chance he will face more charges why didn't roger stone ever testify in the grand jury. his lawyer said he was never interviewed, never asked any questions and now this. >> this has been many, many months in the making, and as

your earlier guest said, michael caputo was talking about it this morning, roger stone wasn't surprised. he's been expecting i think the lying to congress charges. if you look at the indictment, that's really the key here there's this is narrative that shows roger stone the leader of a group of people desperately trying to find out exactly what assange had, and his multiple attempts to get his associates to either get to london or get their associate in london to get to the ecuadorian embassy. that's really the heart of this indictment you also have witness intimidation as one of the charges here but we really don't see as shelly bade earlier a direct link between the russians that hacked the e-mails and roger stone. so it remains to be seen if there is more to come, more an indictment that is more directly looking at collusion we really don't know the. >> and where the president fits

in. >> that's exactly right. there is more to come. >> we've heard stone not just himself but also the president time and time again, last night, as well, let's listen to that. >> watching reporters jump to conclusions, tucker, and say oh, well, the trump campaign official who directed stone to find out about wikileaks was donald trump no, it was not there are several things in here in the indictment that are simply not true. >> so who was it if it wasn't the president? >> well, i have to speculate about that since it never happened, it appears to me that they have composed testimony for someone. perhaps rick gates, perhaps steve bannon >> all right so anna, given that, you have this meter of peril here where does the needle fall when it comes to the president? >> that's a great question we just don't know the when it comes to the president but what our own nbc's own kristen welker reported yesterday is that that top trump

campaign official was steve bannon steve bannon has said roger was trying to get in touch with me and i was brushing him off i didn't really -- we didn't really take him seriously. he was trying to seem relevant but the hinge is that mueller has all of these communications and so he has access to really know exactly what went on during that key time frame from august through november and during that time frame when the podesta e-mails were dropping starting in october, and so it remains to be seen, we just have to wait till the next document comes out because as you all know, there have been very few leaks of any coming out of the special counsel's office. so we all just have to wait and see. we were waiting for the roger stone indictment it came down friday. we saw a narrative play out where roger stone would have loved to find out and get his hands on exactly what assange had, possibly from assange himself. that would have been great

but let's see what mueller comes up with next and if he has anything more because we really don't know. >> in that case as we wait, all of us, asthe president waits, what does this particular indictment palestinian for him >> well, it's another person very close to the president who is now charged with lying to investigators about his contacts not so much with russians but an organization believed to be -- believed by many in the intelligence community to be a cutout for russia. i thought that stone interview clip from tucker carlson was interesting because he's posing this as a he said he said. when you looked at the mueller indictment, what was significant to me not so much what was in it but what was not mueller was specific about text messages, e-mails things in concrete writing what was not in it are some of the stories we've heard from jerome corsi that may it be more he said he said because a lot of stone's associates are not necessarily credible people. it looks like mueller doesn't

want to get into that battle with him juror roam corsi said he told roger stone assanging had the e-mails and said he helped stone cover up the stone podesta time in the barrel tweet. however that, did not show up in the indictment it's unclear if mueller plans to use that at a later time perhaps in another indictment or if it's just too tricky to get into that with roger stone and his associates >> manuel go back to the points is you made moments ago. the president apparently calling stone on the date, the timeline of august 3rd, the day after stone apparently getting information on wikileaks delve into that more. >> sure. at this time period, roger stone is kicking back and forth a lot of tips with jerome corsi about wikileaks. and they are getting more and more certain that something big is coming. and on august 2nd, they

communicate very specifically about that possibility and we know from roger stone's own statements that he talked to donald trump on august3rd and yet, roger says that the topic of wikileaks did not come up in that conversation. that is going to be a tough sell because roger was so interested in that topic, it would really be difficult to imagine that he would be talking to donald trump the very next day and not even bring this up in passing but that's what he says. >> yeah, wow. >> i would love to add one another anything the day after that, august 4th, roger stone e-mailed sam nunberg and said he dined with his new pal julian assange last night. he was constantly talking about it when you look at his statements >> interesting you bring up sam nunberg. anna, i want to ask you, roger stone we saw him with his press

conference and on cable news and a few moments ago outside of his home there in florida. he says he's not going to fold do you see him at all flipping down the line? >> that's a great question and there is much debate in the press from last night through this morning is he going to flip. i really don't know. to me he's insinuated absolutely not for months we've been talking about this for months and he's made public statements for months that's not what he's going to do. we'll see if a presidential pardon is part of his strategy, part of his legal strategy, gunning for that you know, roger stone is quite a character. he can be unpredictable. i don't think it matches the brand that he's built up around him to flip on the president he's been so adamant about that. we've seen other people very close to the president flip like michael cohen who said he would take a bullet for him. jail final, nobody wants to go to jail. i don't think roger stone wants to go to jail.

we'll see what happens. >> manuel, you talked to him who is the roger stone that you know >> he's a flamboyant outrageous person he loves to be in the spotlight. he loves to mix it up with people he's fearless. and he will be punching both above and below the belt throughout this process. even today he's on instagram with a photograph of mueller as a waiter and well, he has also put pictu pictures of himself with trump on, too. he has a picture of mueller as a waiter holding a tray with an empty hamburger in it and he says #nothing burger related to the indictment you're going to see much, much more of this it will be a boxing match but it will be a boxing match not played by the marcus of

queensberry rules sflools. >> self-proclaimed dirty trick center, now indicted >> i don't think be we'll hear so much in court because he can talk the talk and say what he wants about robert mueller on instagram. when it gets to court, he has to face charges he lied to congress and lied about things that seem very provably false. him saying there's a nothing burger isn't going to cut it. >> we're talking about 20 plus years when it comes to the penalty. manuel roig-fran ziia, all of you thank you. sam nunberg says the stone indictment means big political trouble for his old boss we'll talk to him at 1:00 eastern time. yesterday's shutdown deal has president trump tweeting -- and the king of palm beach

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the record 35-day federal shutdown is over, but there is a new deadline looming mick viqueira joins from us capitol hill bring us up to date now. >> reporter: you're right. that's february 15th, three weeks from yesterday, that's how long negotiators between the house and senate have to come up

with something that is addresses is border security and in the president's view would help build that border wall although that is a dicey proposition at best from a political standpoint you remember it was a year ago, frances, whether he there was a $25 billion deal on the table. $25 billion, senate democrats were almost unanimously behind this in addition in exchange for i should say a deal on daca, a deal on temporary protective status but at the last minute, like lucy in charlie brown, the president pulled away the football and it's unclear whether democrats would go for a deal like that again the president made it clear at the end of this three weeks, if there is no deal in the offing, he is standing to declare a national emergency, something he had threatened to do all along he's tweeting about all of in this morning he says 21 days goes very quickly. negotiations with democrats will start immediately. will not be easy to make a deal. both parties very dug in

case for national security has been greatly enhanced by what has been happening at the border and through dialogue we will build the wall now, this in the face of a collapse of republican support in the senate which ultimate little trump into the rose garden to accept a deal he rejected remember it was senator lindsey graham, two weeks ago he put this proposition on the table for president trump. three weeks, reopen the government at the end of that time, if it doesn't work, president trump, you can declare a national emergency. the president rejected but over time, more and more senate republicans were getting wobbly lamar alexander, lisa murkowski ask, susan collins, cory gardner, a host of vulnerable republicans in 2020 for the next election cycle starting to having second thoughts a contentious meeting behind closed doors between senate republicans on thursday led to the president coming out into the rose garden and that's where we stand right now with the clock ticking towards

another possible shutdown. >> thank you, mike appreciate it want too bring in eugene scott, political reporter for "the washington post" and steph kite, reporter for axios interesting read and headline in your piece that reads, "trump just ran into a woman who told him no and he backed down. you go on to writeabout how losing to pelosi is a major blow to the president's image here. what do you make of the argument that the president may have lost the battle but not the war here. does that even matter? >> well, i think that's to be determined we know that the war is not over it's very possible that president trump could lose this war because democrats are united and they're not going to back a border wall as the president desires. we also know that a large number of republicans do not support the border wall and are more likely to increasingly push back against the president as they see their voters and their base push back. that's why we saw at least six republican lawmakers vote with democrats earlier this week.

whether or not things will continue to make progress from this conversation isn't clear but it's very unlikely that thing will not end exactly the way trump would like them to be. >> you watch the dynamic of the president with nancy pelosi and see how that goes into play after this steph, your reaction from the president's base as being split here some blasting his decision while others calling it genius here. how damaging is this crack to his base >> it is a devastating moment for the president, not only has he caved to nancy pelosi twice this oak over the state of the union address and over the shutdown but he's also distanced two key groups going into 2020 he's distanced moderates over keeping this government shutdown going for 35 days and he failed to deliver on his promise and get any funding for the border wall he promised his base. it's being seen as him blinking and it's not playing well among people close to the president, people that reporters have

spoken to, have characterized this as a big loss for the president. and i think we've seen democrats can hold steady on this hold their ground on this issue and i think that is important at this moment as we're going into 2020. >> eugene, do you think we'll continue to see the president blink here when it comes to the white house viewing the announcement yesterday, especially you've got criticism he's received from top right wing supporter, ann coulter calling him a wimp, lou dobbs. >> people who have supported him significantly since 2016 aren't doing so as much as they used to we know that he won white working class voters, whites ejan very cals and independents. his support among these groups has gone down. he can't do what he's been doing. he will have to pivot to something. what that is he probably does not know. >> steph, before i let you go, you mentioned the state of the union address. what's going to happen with that >> we'll have to wait and see. everything has been kind of in

flux recently. i'm sure we'll have the president speak at some point. but of course, negotiations are still ongoing to figure out whether they're going to have funding for the border wall. we could be facing another government shutdown in another three weeks. there's a lot to be figured out. >> the clock has been reset. thank you both of you. the much waited testimony now on hold. the fear is that michael cohen from heading to capitol hill this week. i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying [indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪ i have... ♪

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former trump ally is defend himself after being indicted by the special counsel on seven counts in the russian probe. here it is >> no senior campaign official told me to find out anything about wikileaks. donald trump and i. >> there's a 100% chance in your mind that nobody can offer any compelling credible proof that donald trump knew about your efforts to get to wikileaks? >> nobody can supply any corroborating truth. the allegations as far as i can tell from reading is that you lied to it this committee. have you spoken to the president

about this. >> i have not. when the president answered the written interrogatories, he correctly and honestly said roger stone and i never discussed this and we never did. >> joining me now is former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst glen kirschner and legal contributor katie phang. to both of you, welcome. so katie, we'll start with you you just heard stone admit he knows what the president wrote in response to mueller's written questions. how would he know something like that is that something the president or his legal counsel would be sharing? >> consider account source it is coming from roger stone but assuming roger is telling the truth which is subject to interpretation, obviously donald trump and or his lawyers spoke to roger stone about what trump's answers were to mueller. you have to ask yourself, why? what is the value in donald trump sharing that information with roger stone of course, we have to coordinate our stories if we're going to be

questioned by the mueller team and so roger stone getting on tv, ala rudy giuliani style goes ahead and want wants to make some disclosures he thinks will remove any type of criminal exposure for him but make by making those statements he leads donald trump into the web that robert mueller has cast to be able to catch anyone and everyone who has commit add crime. >> how far into the web is what we want to know. glen, we know the charges here, obstruction, witness tampering, making false statements. what's not there is conspiracy what does that tell you about the investigation? >> yeah, it's interesting, frances because as i was reading through it, all of the building blocks of a conspiracy charge are contained in those 24 pages. but thus far, mueller has decided not to charge the conspiracy that's purely a tactical decision he's probably going to use this to try to pressure stone appropriately so into flipping into providing information that i think we all know could be a treasure trove because of

stone's multidecades relationship with trump. but you know, when you read it carefully, you can see that there are co-conspirators named, just not charged yet corsi appears to be a co-conspirator with stone, assange seems to be a co-conspirator with stone. these unnamed senior trump campaign officials, plural, and mueller makes it clear there are multiple officials, he uses the plural, have all been involved in sort of coordinating, acquiring these e-mails and timing the release for maximum damage to the clinton campaign so i think the next step is going to be a conspiracy indictment it will include stone if he doesn't cooperate or if he doesn't cooperate, it will include stone. if he does cooperate, it won't include him. he will be a cooperating witness. >> there is a conspiracy card somewhere in the deck when it is played we'll all be watching.

katie, an article published argues while the president cannot be indicted because of contribution from acampaign foreign national," which may be subject to criminal indictment what message would that send to the president? what would they do it? >> how do you eliminate trump who was the presidential candidate from his campaign? you're suggesting that trump was completely walled off and protected from information that was being circulated wildly and we saw that the mueller indictments, these incredible indictments that give facts and details to the american public that otherwise we would not be privy to, there's a suggestion that donald trump didn't know what was going on and so glen is right. we don't see the an actual direct conspiracy with the russians in this latest indictment involving stone frances, don't forget, we have two other indictments that involved russians who hacked into servers, russians that released information, and so now we actually have roger stone

linked to the release of those hacked e-mails so robert mueller, these are appetizers, frances, to the main course we're going to find out what he has ultimately. >> on the side here, there's the whole michael cohen thing, glen. this week he postponed his is testimony citing "ongoing threats by the president and rudy giuliani. president trump later said cohen is being threatened by the truths how will it the president be accountable? >> i think he can whether in open court or impeachment hearings is in question. if i were to see one of my defendants when i was a prosecutor say something to an associate like lay, you know that guy who flipped on me, watch his father-in-law. i would do two things. first i would invite the father-in-law to my office promptly and say sir, i'm sorry but we received information that we perceive as a threat against you.

and i'd like to lay out the witness protection options available to you the second thing i would do is i would draft an indictment for witness tampering and obstruction of justice walk into the grand jury and present it for a vote because that is witness tampering. >> wow all right po both of you, glen and, thank you so much appreciate it. inside the gates of power, president trump's mar-a-lago how the pouch beach club helped prepare him for the presidency every day, visionaries are creating the future. ( ♪ ) so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and on-time. (ringing) ( ♪ ) the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it.

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all right. so now that the shutdown is over, president trump may return to mar-a-lago. the president has been unable to visit his cherished florida resort and is now the subject of a new book that out lines how his battles there prepared him for the presidency the book is "mar-a-lago inside the gates of power at president trump's presidential palace. the author joins me now. before we talk about your book, i want to ask you about roger stone. he's from florida. he's a flamboyant guy. talk about how he fits into the world of trump. >> doesn't fit into the palm beach world. he fits into trump's world you rarely see him at mar-a-lago. >> let's talk more about this book here, a lot of fascinating aspects. you wrote that trump acquired this multimillion dollar property for less than $3,000. how did that happen. >> 3,000ed of his money.

the lowest price was $14 million. he got it for $5 million he said he did this in a dirty business it was a dirty business. the lawyer that represented the foundation, the post foundation, his wife was a real estate agent who owned the beachfront property that trump bought at the same time for $2 million giving her $120,000 to put in her pocket at most and after the deal went through for $55 million, trump hires the lawyer as his personal lawyer. >> who was that? >>. >> dallas: rogers. >> the name of the scheme, we hear these names and they may ring bells here. i want to ask you also about trump's relationship with marla mapes. you write about that saying she came and left the estate largely at trump's call. he believed as he told howard stern the more desirable you were, the more enjoyed women

enjoyed being mistreated by you. it was a pleasure he rarely denied maples. tell us a little bit about that. >> actually, this is the most devastating psychological moment in trump's life. this man we know from all these stamms he's made thinks he's irresistible to any woman he can touch and have he had finds his wife one day on the beach having sex with her bodyguard. he's so devastated by this, this is donald trump. he might be found on the beach having sex with somebody but not his wife so what does he do this is a measure how shrewd he is he can't divorce her now if he divorces her now, the media is going to talk about this it can't be. he stays married to her for another year and when he finally divorces her, none of the news stories refer to the true reason for the divorce. >> wow here we have it from you according to your book i write about this explative filled exchange involving celine

dion that ended with the firing of a famous frenchchef we can't quote it because of those four-letter bombs. tell us what happened and how that exchange reflects on person now who is in the white house as our president. >> well, trump is a pop lew lift in terms of food he likes his hamburgers black, he likes a steak he likes ice cream with chocolate, big heaping it ice cream. he hired his fancy french chef and he didn't like the food he was making for him he especially didn't like his caesar salad he goes in one day and screams at him with vulgarities we're not going to mention here and tells him, i'm going to show you how to make a caesar salad and the next day he fired him. >> what was the celine dion. >> celine dion, she was -- she after that asked him to come to her house, and see if she wanted

to hire him. he told her why he was fired he was fired because of the caesar salad she said why don't you make that salad for us today he did it, she loved the salad from then on, two years that the chef worked for celine dion, they referred to that as the trump salad. then the next chef later on, he hires him. i'm going to be very careful he shows trump likes steak he orders his extremely expensive kobe beefsteak, the most tender steak in the world he cooks it so it's black as the devil's soul, puts it before trump. trump can cut it with his butter knife and he gets so angry, he says be me a steak that was the last kobe beefsteak served at mar-a-lago. >> i'll never be able to look at a sae dar salad is the same way again after this story the story involving marla maples, have you heard from her? have you heard from the president at all >> i've been in e-mail exchange

with marla maples and she decided not to talk openly but we've been exchanging e-mails. for president trump, i don't know, i was there. i was there is thanksgiving. thanksgiving i had thanksgiving dinner not ten feet away from trump. i sat there for three hours watching him it was fascinating because he's at this long table with the whole family he has almost nothing to do with fwle of his children or grand children he and mel lannia, they're united together. the two of them against a disloyal world. >> other publications we hear from the president, do you expect to hear from himle? >> i don't know. my phone is available. >> and the tone you mentioned you've been e-mailing marla mabels what was the tone tone? >> obviously, she's hurt by this obviously, that incident on the beach is something she doesn't want to talk about. >> lawrence, thank you so much fascinating insight into your book i appreciate your time. >> thank you.

>> the "new york daily news" calls president trump cave man there's the cover right there. many democrats seem to gloat the fallout from all of that >> i've seen people give victory laps this is the first meti i've steen somebody go to the rose garden and take a defeat lap ery. (boy) nooooooo... (grandma) nooooooo... (dad) nooooooo... (dog) yessssss.... (vo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is two times more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. (boy) hey look, i got it. bounty, the quicker picker upper. from capital one.nd i switched to the spark cash card i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. and last year, i earned $36,000 in cash back. which i used to offer health insurance to my employees. what's in your wallet?

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welcome back the government is back open for business for three more weeks anyway the president still demanding his border wall, but taking some heat from some of his strongest supporters for ending the shutdown without any promises for wall funding here's ann coulter and lou dobs. >> i promised you the country would be run much better if i had veto over what donald trump -- crazy that i expect a president to keep the promise he made every day for 18 months. >> this president said it was going to be conditional, border security, building that wall and he just reversed himself that's a victory for nancy pelosi >> okay. there's also this tweet fromtommy learn saying president trump just allowed nancy pelosi to walk all over him i want to bring in zerlina maxwell for sirius xm. she principle worked for the

clinton campaign and republican strategist rick tyler,both msnbc political andlies. welcome to you both. starting with you, rick. president trump is clearly not happy with the response to his decision he tweeted last night saying that this is not a concession. so where does it go from here? how do you see this playing out? >> the donald trump dispensed with the 16 republican challengers and hillary clinton and this is the first time any politician has actually sort of understood how to beat donald trump and that is nancy pelosi i've never been a fan of hers but you've got to hands it to her. she not only bested him on the state of the union she got donald trump to back down on the shutdown and this is a game-changer because what nancy pelosi has done is she's ripped away the veil and got it on the core of trump's identity, his self-proclaimed dealmaker image,

tough guy, never backs down. he got her to back down. it's never going to go back for him. there won't be any more shutdowns. donald trump understands that. he's currently at a 37-58 approval rating. he was 40-53 when he lost the house. he's not going to go back there. the republicans in the house and senate are not likely to go back there with him either. >> he can't turn this out. zerlina, is there anything that democrats gave president trump, anything of substance in this deal do you still expect him to stay firm, not bundle at all when it comes to the border wall >> i think the lesson they learned from this fight is they should hold firm i there what we saw in the last few weeks is the consequence of democrats taking back one of the chambers of congress and i think that you know, american voters sent a message to donald trump in november. it just took them till yesterday to figure out what that message was, which is we want a check on

your incompetent really. and a check on the power of the presidency he should not be able to just shut down the government in a temper tantrum because mexico is not going to pay for the wall like he promised during the campaign i never thought i would said i agree with ann coulter, but she's right. he said this on the campaign trail every day. we all pretended he did not. what the reality check he got yesterday is that the speaker of the house is the position that wields a lot of power and finally, donald trump is going to have to go toe to toe with somebody unlike paul ryan when he was speaker who actually is going to demonstrate how the levers of power and government work and that's a healthy thing for the country because it was completely ridiculous for the past two years to watch the republicans essentially just be an extra arm of the white house. they're a coequal branch of government nancy pelosi is demonstrating what that is supposed to look like. >> we saw that with the stand

down when it comes to the state of the union address when you talk about and how he's getting pummeled in the headlines, he caved, a defeated and you mentioned the polls as far as him dropping. but could this hurt him even more and especially where does this stand with his base >> donald trump has a choice to make he can continue to oppose nancy pelosi and get beat because he will get beat because she controls one half of a coequal branch of government or he can do what presidentses have done which is figure out how to make a deal with nancy pelosi where they both get something. ronald reagan was getting killed on social security because he wanted to reform it. he was getting beat so badly, he went to tip o'neill. he struck a deal they both got to claim victory and we got social security reform bill clinton had a terrible first two years and after oklahoma city is, he became president and won re-election. i don't know if donald trump is capable of doing that but he needs a reset moment

it col happen right now if he figures out how to work with the wong gres to get things done otherwise he's setting the republican party up for catastrophic losses in the 2020 election campaign up and down the ticket. >> he's got to be the one. zer lynnna, just asking this because some believe president trump, shouldn't he get any credit for caving here when the democrats were the ones -- you're saying this is nance pelosi flexing on the democrats. any ounce of credit here for the president? >> no, no, he doesn't get any credit for doing the right thing 35 days after he should have done the right thing what we saw yesterday is he got nothing for this deal. he caved he got nothing he could have made the deal 35 days ago the same is true for leader mitch mcconnell who also could have made a deal 35 days ago and passed the bill they passed before christmas so i think that donald trump lost here. we just have to own up to the fact that it's a loss for donald trump. but it's a win for the american people and the people now going

to be able to go to the grocery store and get groceries. >> we're going to be watching that scorecard very closely when it comes to the next few weeks february 15th, right see what happens then. zerlina maxwell rick tyler, thank you. >> thanks, frances. >> it is a new article in the "new york times. trump and his associates had more than 100 contacts with russians before the inauguration we'll talk with our legal experts about it and sam nunberg talks to me about the roger stone indictment to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪

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