that wraps up this hour on msnbc. i'm richard lui. you can follow me on twitter, facebook, and gram i'll turn it over to reverend al sharpton and "politicsnation." good evening and welcome to "politicsnation. tonight's lead, while i'm pleased that hundreds of thousands of federal workers will be repaid and returned to work, now that the nation's longest government shutdown has come to an end, i need to vent about the last month of economic terror, because nothing additive has happened since the president

sat down with top the democratic leaders at the white house in early december he was told no to his border wall then, and he was told no to his border barrier friday. what has changed as the president now faces a divided government and an emboldened house speaker in nancy pelosi and as our nation's air travel faced a crippling disruption this week and democrats led by pelosi remained unmoved, president trump tried to cast his capitulation friday as martyrdom, of self-sacrifice to end the suffering he started of course by this morning he was back to playing the strong man for the hard-line critics dangling the next deadline for the next possible shutdown, 21

days in front of the nation on twitter. so despite the enormous individual pain and the crippling damage done to the national economy over the last seven weeks, president trump came away with nothing, not even a lesson learned and i challenge anyone who have had the tactic in that joining me now is former deputy secretary of labor under president obama, chris lou, may i can't wily, senior vice president for social justice at the new school, and msnbc legal analyst carrie sheffield, a conservative commentator and national editor for accuracy in media. let me go to you, carrie what is the trump spin i mean, how do you act like you are sacrificing for workers'

suffering when you started and caused the suffering and got nothing, no wall, not even a brick? how do you spin this >> it's not about spinning you saw the president's statement you put up on the screen he mentioned the case for border security has been strengthened we saw public opinion for a wall, a barrier, wall security it's been going up that is absolutely momentum. >> going up where? no poll says that >> absolutely it's going up. >> what poll. >> in terms of a border wall multiple. >> name them give them two. >> it's been reported by politico and multiple polls. let me show you this poll. approve, 37% 58% disapprove i count that 21% down. how is it going up

>> i'm saying support for a border wall. >> that is an abc poll. >> you're talking about the president. i'm talking the wall itself. support for the wall has gone up by double digits is there and you can't name the poll? >> i said abc news is one poll. >> that the poll has gone up for the wall >> absolutely. >> so gone up from 27% to 29%? >> no, i think it was something around - >> you are in denial that this country has said they do not support the wall >> i'm saying the support for national security has been going up. >> there's never been a question about national security. the democrats supported national security the democrats voted for a bill that would give over a billion dollars to national security this is not about national security this is about a vanity wall. >> no, no, no. nancy pelosi is the one who has back tracked when she says the wall is immoral, she has voted to support a barrier and a border

and strong immigration security. reverend, i got to ask you - >> wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. you are saying -- just a second, just a second. you are saying that nancy pelosi voted for some kind of call, something at the border, but you just said they were against border security. >> i'm saying they are - >> so you can't have it both ways. >> i'm saying they are trying to spin their past support. >> they said they've supported it let me get others into this discussion i'll come back and you can ask me your civil rights commission question maya, is it not a fact that nancy pelosi and chuck schumer defeated, embarrassed this president, who after we started air traffic and other things come about, he had to capitulate and then try to spin his way out of it by even miscasting polls >> let me start with it's a tremendous victory for the american people that the

shutdown is over in addition to the federal workers, we still have the issue of contractors that's a lot of people who aren't going to get back pay who are still going to struggle to make ends meet even now. >> small businesses. >> that's right. and our national security was absolutely undermined by this shutdown so i think that's another important thing to say thank god this shutdown is over. i don't think there's any question that the republicans themselves, i think a little bit of what's lost in this discussion is that republicans were not -- they had a unanimous position on a package for the government that did not include the wall that donald trump turned back, turned away, said no to. >> after he had supported it. >> that's right. and there was a $25 billion package on the table at the beginning of 2018 that trump

said no to, that the democrats would have voted for if ed the included a path to citizenship for dreamers, for people brought here as children who have grown up here. if you look at the long tranl trajectory of this, donald trump has not shown himself to be the negotiator that he said he was. >> you were the sector of labor under president obama. in your experience in government and as a top official in the obama administration, have you ever seen a point where the democrats where against border security and, in fact, president obama if i recall was attacked for sending a lot of people out of the country. that was part of controversy he faced. am i wrong when i say this is not about border security or about illegal immigrants coming in the country, it's about a wall >> you're exactly right. let's go back to the bipartisan

comprehensive immigration bills that passed the senate in 2006, 2007, they not only included the pathway to citizenship for dreamers, it included strong border security. that is something that democrats have supported in the past and it's something that they support now. but what's critical to understand, if you really want to secure the border, you use 21st century technology. you don't spend billions of dollars on a medieval wall that no one believes will stop the flow of people coming across the border, that will not stop the flow of drugs coming across the border it is noteworthy that every member of congress who represents one of the districts that abutts the southern border does not support this wall, including republicans. so i am encouraged that the shutdown is over i believe, again, democrats and republicans can find a comprehensive solution that shores up the border security in a way that's a meaningful

difference the only question is whether the president will accept it and we found him to be a complicated and erratic negotiator, so we may well be back in this situation 21 days from now. >> carrie, he in 21 days has threatened to shut the government down again. is that just putting a face on for the hard right pundits, or do you think after the damage he's done, after what we saw even at major airports that he would really even think about shutting the government down and reinflicting this pain >> look, it definitely takes two to tango you had democrats going to puerto rico instead of negotiating. nancy pelosi wanted to go to the middle east instead of negotiating. >> i didn't ask you whether the democrats were i asked you about whether the president would inflict this pain again >> i'm saying it's not about the president. >> the president is my question. but i'm asking you about the

president. >> i'm saying the president wants to work with democrats he absolutely does. >> but working without getting the wall, he's saying he would shut it down again do you believe he will do that >> when nancy pelosi says a wall is a immorality, the poll i was -- >> so you're not going to answer my question? >> i'm saying it's one of the negotiating tactics, whether it's shutting down the government, maybe it comes that he needs to declare a national emergency. let's be honest. i'm going to pin blame this on congressional republicans when they had both houses of. >> yes, sir. that, we agree >> support for the wall went 34% january 2018 to 42% according to "washington post" abc. so you can see there's increased support. so when nancy pelosi say a wall is a immorality, she's going the direction of the american people this president won the white house, won the republican nomination he cleaned house among the establishment because of immigration. and the question i was going to ask you, the u.s. civil rights commission before trump even took office found that there was

a depressing effect especially in particular young black men because of illegal immigration it floods the market. >> that's not the issue here no, no, no, you can't change -- the issue, carrie, is the wall and whether or not that is the effective way to deal with illegal immigration. what the civil rights commission said has nothing to do with a wall are you try to tell me donald trump wants to build a wall to help young black men >> absolutely. >> be serious. donald trump - >> he's the one who helped - >> donald trump has never even said that himself, carrie. come on. maya the fact of the matter is many of the jobs that a lot of the people that come across the border for, many of them, unfortunately, and i'm opposed to this, are given jobs that, in effect, will not even cover the

wages that we are fighting to make sure people can take care of their families. so let's not act like young black men are fighting to have those kind of jobs that many companies are exploiting these immigrants in. >> part of conversation is about driving fear and division as opposed to backing up, looking at facts and trying to understand what is most effective at both creating a rational process for immigration as well as looking at where the problems are and for whom. the reality is 2/3 of immigrants come on visas, they come on airplanes, and they overstay their visas. a lot of them, by the way, don't even intend to necessarily and so the idea that the border wall is the issue when it comes to undocumented entry into the country is a little misleading in the first place but the second, that same u.s. humanitarians commission report i've read. first of all, there were folks

who had different views on this issue. >> it's a civil rights commission. >> i'm sorry so there were different views on this issue in fact, it's very complicated because the truth is where we have not created sufficient pathways to good, high-wanige jobs, that's where we would see competition but it's across the board. there was a study done with 14 renown renowned academics that looked at data and immigration on the whole was beneficial for the u.s. economy. >> and i might add if people were based on race since miss carrie has said it affected young blacks, if they were using people to not hire young blacks, then the government under mr. trump should go after those companies.

chris lou, you were the undersecretary of labor. you know better than anyone. did you ever find while you helped run the labor department in this country, evidence that young black unemployment, as despicable and high as it is, was in any way caused by illegal immigration? >> absolutely not. if donald trump knows anything about illegal immigration, because it's his own resort have made a habit of hiring undocumented immigrants. >> you didn't see all those young blacks around his resort working since carrie says he wants to build a wall to help protect them they didn't get a job at his resort >> every year mar-a-lago applies to get visas for workers to come and do food service, housekeeping those are jobs that can go to americans. this is not just about undocumented immigration it's part of a larger trend of this administration to cut back on legal immigration as well that stops families from asia

reunifying, makes it more challenging for foreign students to get visas to come into this country. we need a foreign workforce in this country both skilled and unskilled. and so this is not about wages if this president were serious about wagines, he would commit o raise the minimum wage which has not gone up in several years. >> the panel is staying with us. i'm going to check carrie's poll numbers and the dates on the poll numbers coming up next, history as a gullible candidate in georgia brought her national attention now stacy abrams talks with me about what's next in her political life you're watching "politicsnation. we'll be right back.

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stacy abrams's run to become governor of georgia made her a star in the democratic party since her campaign ended, many have wondered what's next for the first candidate in nearly 20 years to almost turn the reliably red state of georgia to blue democrats in washington have been courting abrams to consider challenging georgia's freshman senator david purdue in 2020, but she may still have her eyes on becoming the nation's first black female governor.

joining me now is the former democratic candidate for governor of georgia, stacy abrams thank you for being with us tonight. >> thank you so much for having me it's my pleasure to be back. >> let me ask you, are you going to run for the senate next year or are you going to wait and run for governor again have you made a decision, stacy? >> i have not made a decision yet. i am incredibly grateful for the energy and the enthusiasm and the advice i'm getting but i want to make sure that i'm the right person, that this is the right time, and that it's the right job for the work that i want to do i've been very privileged to have conversations and senators and advocates both georgia and across the country and i plan to make a decision by the end of this quarter, by the end of march. >> by the end of march you'll make a decision, but tonight you are clearly one of the stars of the party with a proven track record by what you were able to

do in georgia, and i would say had we had voting protection in section 5 in terms of preclearance in georgia, i think you would have likely won that election the clear question is, as we continue to deal with these issues, you have championed voting rights throughout your campaign, the candidacy and continuing will you deal with the voting violations, moving of polling sites, and all kinds of shenanigans that your opponent did in the election? >> we have been working hard with the state party, with the national party, with congress to lift up voter suppression and its effect on voting rights to a national conversation. we know that we did not have a fair fight in georgia. that's why i created fair fight action, which is an organization that is dedicated to pushing for

voting rights for everyone while it may be targeted at certain vulnerable communities, largely people of color and the poor and rural communities, it erodes the democracy all of us rely on regardless of party. it's a democracy organization. i'm excited about the energy the new democratic house has put behind this conversation but the bipartisan conversation in congress there are republicans who understand if there's an erosion of our democracy, none of us are safe so i'm going to be working across the aisle and across the country to lift up the issue of making sure every election in georgia is a fair fight. >> now, you have said, and i agree, that the democrats cannot run in 2020, whether you are on the senate ticket in georgia or not, is just against trump, but for something. what will they do for the american people. what are the three things you

would like to see as central issues in the 2020 national as well as statewide races? >> health care has to be a central conversation we know that the gop and donald trump have tried to erode the protections that were put in place by the affordable care act. but we have to go beyond that because in states like georgia, even though we have access to the aca, the failure of leadership, the republican tloip expand medicaid means thousands still suffer without health care and we're one of the 14 states without real access. that has to be front and center. number two is wages. we know that wages are stag gnat or falling but with costs are rising, and it does not make sense in a nation that's so capable of greatness that so many are falling behind. it signals how hard it is for our families those who were serving and protecting us are living from

paycheck to paycheck we have to deal with the green economy. we have to address the fact that climate change is real, but it's having a real effect on how we live our lives, whether you're looking at puerto rico or the storms that hit the georgia or what happened in texas or the storms hitting the east coast. we know climate change is real and it's having an affeeffect ou lives. focus on health care, wages, and on the climate, and we can win this election in 2020. >> one of the things i observed about you, you are a star rose to higher heights last year, you remained very humble and very grounded what advice would you give to a lot of young people that are now think of entering or have entered the political arena? what advice would you give them, lessons you learned in the

gubernatorial race in georgia last year? >> look, i like to tell folks, i've met me, i'm not overly impressed. i know why i do what i do. i believe that poverty is immoral, but i think it's economically inefficient and i think it's a solvable problem. it's a waste of human capital. i grew up with parents who were involved in fact civil rights movement and they taught me that you may not win every battle you fight, but you're responsibility is to get in that fight, whether i'm fighting for voting rights across the country or fighting to make sure georgia is a battleground state in the 2020 election what i hope everyone learned is you talk to everyone but you speak authentically to who you believe and who you are. whether it be my personal struggle with debt or every single day i got to meet new people in places that didn't expect to see me and i didn't expect them to vote for me we transformed georgia and built

a multiethnic coalition and we can win if we work together. remember, this is possible you can't takes yourself too serious but you have to take everyone and their needs seriously. >> the mission is bigger than the individual and you personified that believe me, we're going to be watching you and continue to see where your career helps not only take you, but take the nation. you've been very positive. thank you very much for being on again, stacy abrams. >> thank you, reverend. up next, the president of the united states tried to sneak in on dr. king's memorial. but i caught him i'll explain after the break

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that was part of our speech monday during the national action network martin luther king jr. day breakfast in washington, d.c., calling out president trump for having no public events scheduled on a federal holiday honoring one of our nation's greatest civil rights leaders

he must have heard me because soon after the president made a beeline, drive by stop at the king memorial. want to know how long it lasted? 90 seconds mr. president, let me spend 90 seconds to explain you to why you failed and why your failed photo op was an insult martin luther king day is a federal holiday, just as a point of information, it was signed into law by ronald reagan, a republican you say you admire, one who said he did not like dr. king he attacked dr. king and, in fact, he didn't want to sign a bill for him, but he did because he understood the federal government holiday is a government holiday, not optional you had nothing on your public schedule for that day. i didn't invite members of the king family, even martin luther

king jr. iii and dr. king's only grandchild was five minutes from the memorial you didn't plan to go there. what message are you sending when you had no intention of in any way publicly celebrating a federal holiday? and when you attacked, you make a drive-by, and never even make a statement calling dr. king's name dr. king and america deserves bett ferrom its president. your typical bank. capital one is anything but typical. that's why we designed capital one cafes. you can get savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums. and one of america's best savings rates. to top it off, you can open one from anywhere in 5 minutes. this isn't a typical bank. this is banking reimagined. what's in your wallet?

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with shutdown now over and at least averted for another three weeks, a sigh of relief for the nearly 6,300 federal employees in michigan. the shutdown there impacted state parks, delayed flights, as well as an faa investigation of a plane crash. joining me now is democratic congressman dan killedy of michigan he's a member of the ways and means committee. congressman, tell us how this directly affected people on the ground, because how it affected people in michigan affected people all over the country in many of the same ways and in some places, different ways, and even more drastically.

>> as you said, thousands of people in michigan, hundreds of thousands across the country had their entire lives turned upside down by ankle very small-minded decision by this president to use them as a pawn in a political game is not without consequence. some have said obviously the president lost this battle, but some of them said we go right back to where we were 35 days ago. but not really not for those families who had this uncertainty now affect them for a long time, not for their kids who have gone through this uncertainty of not knowing if their parents are going to be able to take care of them. this will have a long-lasting effect on those lives. it has a long-lasting effect on how this country is viewed by people across the world. there's a consequence to this that goes far beyond the day we reopened government. >> now, when you say the consequence, does that mean because you're part of

democratic leadership that the democrats are going to hold the line even after the 21 days that the president has given to have the government restart, they're going to hold the line and stand against this wall. >> yeah, our position hasn't changed. and of course, we've always supported smart border security. we've always supported wise use of immigration law, and we know that there are changes that we need to make perhaps this conference committee can address some of those changes. but our principles haven't changed. we're not going to create a monument to donald trump's fear of immigrants just because there were people chanting in a rally telling him he should do that. we want to be smart and effective with the way we manage our boarder, but we're not changing our minds just because the president put us through this and i hope he understands that i hope he learned a lesson from this. >> the state union, he will not be able to give it on tuesday,

speakers pelosi said, but it is very possible that he will give it before the 21 days have run out. what do you think he can say how do you deal, given the state of the union, when you just laid off or delayed the payment of, and also forced many of those kr contractors and subcontractors to suffer, what can he say to the american people about the state of the union >> i don't know if he's capable of saying what he should say, he should apologize to those people i'm not sure he's ever apologized for anything. the problem we have, though, with the president giving the state of the union, which is his right and really his duty to do is that his long record of not being trustworthy, frankly, has

been exacerbated by what we've gone through in the last few weeks. donald trump is a person in whom you can't put faith. you can't trust what he says the only way to measure donald trump is by the actions that he takes. what we know now is that the only significant action he's taken in the last month is to put 800,000 lives in jeopardy just on a whim, just for politics sake. i don't to listen what he says any longer i only believe what he does because what he says can change from one minute to the next. >> the investigation by the mueller investigators has continued to have indictments, some have had a guilty plea, roger stone indicted yesterday where is the climate in terms of those that have called for impeachment and where do you stand on the question of impeachment? what is the telling factor that you and the congress need that

would accelerate a call for impeachment? >> i think what we really need to see is how all of the pieces of this puzzle fit together. so far the pieces that we've seen are pretty damning of this presidency the people very closest to him, many of them have been indicted for serious crimes the people he held closest to him for the longest period of time are the ones that look like they are facing real trouble when you think about that, we look at what the mueller investigation will ultimately reveal, it's hard to imagine that this puzzle that's being put together will not somehow lead to the president himself. i reserve judgment only because i want to see all the facts, but i'm unafraid to use every tool i have to uphold my oath to the constitution when those facts come together, i'll make an evaluation like most of us will and we'll see

where it takes us. >> all right thank you, congressman kill di from richard nixon to donald trump. roger stone is once again in trouble with the law what it means for the administration and the president himself. be right back. to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪

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. long time trump associate and campaign consultant roger stone will be in federal court on on tuesday following his arrest in a predawn raid yesterday. mueller's team charged stone with one count of obstruction, five counts of making false statements, and a count of witness tampering. never short on words, stone spoke with reporters today outside of his florida home. >> this was an egregious overreach by mr. mueller, the fbi director who had to have approved this raid should, in my opinion, be fired over it. >> meanwhile, stone confidant jerome corsi spoke with richard lui last hour where we denied that he was the go-between for

wikileaks and stone. >> i think he must have had contact, yes, but it wasn't through me because i've had no contact of any kind direct or indirect with assange or wikileaks. >> back with me, chris lu, former assistant to president obama, maya wily, msnbc legal analyst, and carrie sheffield, conservative commentator let me go to you, chris lu if these number of people around president obama had been indicted, cooperated, all the things that we've seen, do you think that the obama administration could have survived, less reelected. >> i think it's fair to say that no one in the obama administration went to prison and that's a record we are very proud of if you're keeping score at home, the roger stone indictment is now the 34th person to be indicted, six people have plead

guilty including the national security adviser, the campaign chairman and the deputy campaign chairman as much as donald trump might want to minimize this, roger stone is a person that knew trump for decades, was an informal adviser to the campaign, and as a former business partner of paul manafort's this is a significant development not only in terms of the charges against mr. stone, but the background in terms of the contacts between the trump campaign and mr. is known seeking more information about the wikileaks disclosures. and so we have seen that with mr. mueller's case, it's like a jigsaw puzzle. with each one of these indictments, a couple more pieces get put in place. and this picture overall of collusion is becoming more and more clear and i suspect there's going to be a lot more coming down the road. >> carrie, let me ask you this roger stone, who i know like i know michael cohen, in fact, roger stone and i were on the

rockefeller in new york is where i first met him. and 15 years ago when i ran for president, he would try to advise unofficially. so i don't think he's kidding when he says he's not going to back down off this president because he always liked donald trump and was close with him isn't that, one, dangerous for mr. trump, that there appears to be these links with him and wikileaks, and he clearly is one of the people that any of us that have dealt with trump, mostly adversarial, that he is now connected to this, and secondly, do you believe this is just a witch-hunt when you hear chris saying 34 cases, including some pleas of guilty by even your national security adviser of this administration >> i never met roger stone, i don't know him personally. i will point out the list that you put up about the charges

not one of them has to do with actual collusion, which is the whole purpose ostensibly for the mueller investigation in terms of actual collusion with the russians i agree with the president when we're talking about behavior that happened after the campaign his indictments were for behavior and actions taken -- >> isn't the charges about whether or not he lied about what happened in the campaign? you can't divorce what the lie was about. if they're investigating a robbery, and you lie a year after the robbery, you can't say it doesn't have anything to do with the robbery, that's what you're lying about >> this was the same question with bill clinton. >> read the indictment >> he was impeached because of -- i'm just saying the behavior versus the charge bill clinton was not indicted.

>> which disproves your point that -- >> that in realtime, it is about the things that are being investigated you're the lawyer, am i right or wrong, if you lie about the event and the event is being investigated, that is what lead to the charge. it doesn't mean that because the lie was after the period that you're looking at it has nothing to do with that. >> this is textbook how prosecutors build cases. they start with evidence that they can gather, as we know this case they started with george po

p papdopulous and michael flynn. and all of this escalates overtime what roger stone, as an odd vad of the campaign lied about goes to directly whether or not the campaign was having conversations with russians, and -- >> which is what the mueller investigation is on. >> and the indictment itself is explicit about contact between roger stone and the high level officials in the trump campaign at two very key points in the process of the campaign where roger stone is in the act of trying to get e-mails at the same time what prosecutors also -- the reason that lying becomes so critically important, is that if someone is lying, the question becomes why why is it they're trying to cover up one of the interesting

conversations that we had this morning on joy reed's show, august 4th, all of the e-mail straskt in the indictment, roger stone is saying get me the e-mails, he actually has an exchange with sam on august 4th that is in indictment. and i said you yourself have said, and roger stone said he has contact with trump regularly. was he in communication with trump in that period and he said i can't speak about that because of the brgrand jury >> you saent it wasnid it was at do you believe it is a witch hunt >> i believe there is people within the clandestine services that do not want him in office >> do you believe it is a witch

hunt, i agree with him, yes i do, brennan lied to congress this is about whether or not the steele dossier, where the source of that was, that was partisan, that was from -- >> how does that make this a witch hunt same thing with jim comey. there is evidence that jim coeyy lied to congress >> if that is true you should hold them accountable, but you're saying they should not look into that i am saying none of these charges have to do what. >> wendy: what you said just >> the charges have to do the

behavior after the campaign. >> that is one case. it is about what happened in the case let's not try to -- question have different opinions, we can't have different facts it is lying about what happened in the campaign which is what whole investigation is about thank you for being with us kerry, chris, and maya, up next my final thoughts, stay with us. are creating the future. ( ♪ ) so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and on-time. (ringing) ( ♪ ) the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it. just as important as what you get out of it? our broccoli cheddar is made with aged melted cheddar, simmered broccoli, and no artificial flavors. enjoy 100% clean soup today. panera. food as it should be.

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three weeks, he then of course continued to follow up saying "but i will shut it down again if i don't get my wall." it is my hope after seeing american citizens, government workers, people that go to work every day from either party, that keep this government working for you and i, after seeing them suffer, some saying they didn't have grocery or gas money, i hope the testimonies hold the line and say we will not let them be mocked hold the line, i hope, mr. pelosi and mr. schumer does and stand up for what you stood up for so what they suffered will not be in vein and it only be a

abbreviated point in time for donald trump to get what he wants that america doesn't need. a sanity war that does it for me, thank you for watching, i'll seal you back here tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. eastern for a new life edition of "politics nation. up next "the beat." >> a historic day in the mueller probe and the entire trump era it started with an early morning raid and arrest of roger stone within mueller indicting him for obstruction and witness tampering. this is the first indictment of someone involved, and unlike oth every other associate, he came out to defiantly address the

charges against him.