special podcasts extras for you that goes up this weekend. we're going to show the entire discussion when corsi was speaking out on "the beat," speaking of roger stone and what prosecutors want to know find it sunday whenever you get your podcasts. you can always check out the beat on msnbc. caveman. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening i'm chris matthews in new york what a day it's been we're covering two smashing news stories tonight. both pummeling the trump presidency the arrest of his long-time dirty trickster in the russia probe, roger stone and trump's big cave in the shutdown reopening the federal government without getting a single penny for his prized wall.

the president now faces the wrath of his far right base like ann coulter who tweeted trump is the biggest wimp ever to serve as president of the united states wimp much more on that crushing trump headline coming up we begin with the predawn raid of the fbi in florida where roger stone was later hauled before a judge in shackles he's been charged with several criminal counts including obstruction, and five counts of making false statements to the congress most significant is it draws the russia investigation a step closer to the highest levels of the trump campaign it indicates that mueller has evidence directly related to the core of his mandate which is to investigate, quote, any links and/or coordination between the russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of president donald trump, close quote in other words, today's indictment of roger stone appears to be exhibit a in a case for collusion got it

in detailing his alleged lies, by the way, the special counsel today established stone as a key link between the trump campaign and wikileaks, a front for russian intelligence which played a crucial role in the kremlin's campaign it was julian assange what released stolen democratic e-mails all hacked by russia in a deliberate effort to inflict maximum damage on hillary clinton during the 2016 election the indictment suggests stone knew has coming from the hackers, even before wikileaks released the first batch of e-mails. quote, around june and july of 2016, stone informed senior trump campaign officials that he had information indicating wikileaks had documents whose release would be damaging to the clinton campaign close quote then after the first batch of dnc e-mails were released in late july, a senior trump campaign official was directed to contact stone about any additional releases and what

other damaging information wikileaks had. stone thereafter told the trump campaign about potential future releases of damaging material by wikileaks. as of the only thing we don't know the identity of that, quote, senior trump campaign official or the person who defect direct them to contact stone here's what told reporters after his appearance in shackles before a florida court today >> after a two-year inquisition the charges today relate in no way to russian collusion, wikileaks collaboration or any other illegal act in connection with the 2016 campaign at the crack of dawn, 29 fbi agents arrived at my home with 17 vehicles with their lights flashing when they could simply have contacted my attorneys and i would have been more than willing to surrender voluntarily. as i have said previously, there

is no circumstance whatsoever under which i will bear false witness against the president, nor will i make up lies to ease the pressure on myself >> joining me is texas democratic congressman joaquin castro, a member of the house intelligence committee, former federal prosecutor kirschner and senior vice president for social justice and legal analyst danny. cevallos tell us about how this brings in, gets to the heart fortunate russia probe. >> it does and it doesn't. you look at all the conduct alleged in this indictment that roger stone isn't actually charged for. he's charged for obstruction, for lying, persuading witnesses corruptly. that relates to everything that happened after the investigation began. but far more compelling is the information before roger stone allegedly committed those crimes and it leaves open the question,

does the special counsel have enough information about roger stone's conduct with wikileaks or whatever that organization is, to charge hip or do they not yet have it and they're waiting until they get an air-tight case to charge him, because then and only then when those dots connect, will we have evidence of russian collusion. >> glenn, what do you think about this i have a different view. i think that roger stone knew damn well it was coming from russia because everyone on the planet knew it was coming from russia and he knew what he was doing, being a link in the mandate of this probe, get all the links between russia government people and the trump campaign he clearly is a link your thoughts? >> chris, this is an incremental step toward a bigger conspiracy indictment that is absolutely coming it's funny because this indictment reads like a conspiracy indictment, it has the building blocks of a conspiracy indictment. but it doesn't yet charge the conspiracy

that's obviously for tactical reasons. this is one incremental step the mueller team will use to try to break roger stone and bring him on board because goodness knows he would be a treasure-trove of information about donald trump having a decades-long association with him either roger stone will break and see the light or he'll die in prison. but with this is just one incremental step the next big accept is probably an overarching conspiracy indictment. >> this is quite a scene he had the weirdest look on his face today looked like he was enjoying this moment of whatever. >> he absolutely was i mean, he's the one who said, you know, it's better to be talked about than not and he doesn't care if being talked about means being talked about as he stairs down the barrel of a prosecutor's gun it's rather staggering i want to go back to the point that glenn made. we're talking about a man who

says he doesn't want to bear false witness, who literally we have e-mail exchanges in which he is fabricating lies about hillary clinton's health in the context of the indictment. and we know from jerome corsi himself asked jerome corsi to lie. so for someone who's - >> or be punished physically by him. his godfather stuff the way he threatened this witness. >> and called him a rat. >> jerome corsi and radio host randy credico about making contact with wikileaks while at the same time he kept in touch with people in the campaign. he wrote saying i spoke to my friend in london last night. the payload is still coming. later that day, a supporter involved in the trump campaign asked stone via text messages if he heard anymore from london stone replied, yes, want to talk on a secure line and then after the release of

john podesta's e-mails on october 67th, an associate of a trump official sent a edge to stone that read well done. that associate is unknown. the official has been identified as steve bannon. you guys decide whether to impeach this president ask i'm wondering how close this gets to getting to the belly of the beast which is was trump directly or indirectly working with the russians to beat hillary clinton? >> i think right now we still don't know that whether he personal was but his campaign was, and the indictment shows there was basically a chain of people that went from the trump organization high up in the trump organization to wikileaks that had stolen or received stolen e-mails and then dumped them i think we will find out ultimately before this is all over whether donald trump knew or didn't know about it and

whether he participated. >> if a whole bunch of your campaign people worked with moscow to defeat an opponent, would you feel a little bit responsible? seems to me extraordinary the fish rots from the head. i wonder if trump is a victim or a potential target of a recount charge because he was running a criminal enterprise seems to me. >> you can tell it's getting harder for sarah sanders to deny this has anything to do with the president as the gets closer and closer to the president. i'm not surprised that roger stone has been indicted for making false statements. that was of all the interviews we were in, the one interview where when the interview was done, everybody was pretty sure that he had lied to the committee because he made

contradictory answers. >> stone said he never spoke to trump about wikileaks. there's a great case of hiding from the truth by saying certain things i never talked to him about wikileaks. may have talked about getting dirt on hillary from this interesting source leathers watch. >> i can say that candidate donald trump, donald trump, president trump and i have never discussed the wikileaks disclosures before, during, or after the election. >> that's hard to fathom further more, as stone admitted during the elections he was frequently in touch with trump. >> how often do you talk to him? >> from time to time, not on a daily basis, but from time to time. >> when was the last time you talked to him? >> saturday. >> we talk from time to time i declined to characterize the content of those conversations.

>> i spoke to donald trump yesterday. he's good spirits. >> can you did he vulg to us some of those middle of the night phone conversations you had with mr. trump >> you know, i really can't and it's been my policy not to discuss personal conversations with him otherwise it will end in all zblons give me a psychological profile we got there. he wants to tease the idea that he's on the inside and then he gives you a denial >> he's like the pt bar numb of public statements. he's getting everybody excited but he has a very legalese type answer the reality is speaking as often as he did, some of his statements not just to congress, but to us were inconsistent. and it becomes very not credible to actually believe that everyone -- that he never spoke with donald trump.

it stretches the imagination that donald trump in all of his conversations and his close relationship with roger stone would never have brought up wikileaks, which apparently was trump's favorite conversation. >> and also the president is notoriously known to ask the russian for information about hillary clinton's e-mail and that might come up in conversation between roger and the president. >> he literally is asking corsi to go get the e-mails from julianne assange two days before donald trump publicly says, come on, russia, if you can find, get us those 30,000 e-mails. it's a two-day break in time the other thing going back to the way the trump campaign worked, we don't know. so this is not something we know in terms of what trump knew and what conversations he had but we do know that this campaign was a

family-run business. >> the rome nofz for witness tampering and pressuring randy credico not to contradict his testimony. among other things stone told him to plead the fifth he also told him you are a rat a stoolie, you back stabbed your president. run your mouth for lawyers are you dying to rip him i think lawyers are dying to rip you in shreds. he also said let's get it on, prepare to die, expletive. this is mob talk he's thing the guy physically or whatever. >> it's ridiculous stone may like to parse words. he doesn't parse them well and credibly as you were just saying,

president trump talked with everyone in the world about loving the wikileaks and what they were providing, but he didn't talk to stone about it. i think stone will probably fold like a cheap lawn chair and come on board and join team mueller because if he doesn't, when i read what's in this 24-page indictment, every word in there you know bob mueller can back up with three pieces of evidence and convicting stone on trial will be a cake walk. >> congressman, were you concerned this guy could be guilty as hell, could be a bad dude in every way, morally, legally, politically, are you happy with the way the feds picked him up today, 2 agents, guns drawn, put him in shackles, i think criminal justice should only be administered by a jury don't beat up the guy on the way

to the police station. don't do perp walks. they get the punishment set by the judge. what did you think of the guy the way he was picked up today at dawn? >> i missed a lot of the coverage because i was on my way to the airport there was some debate about whether the pediatric was tipped off and cnn said they weren't and soetor forth there still been a lot of discussion about this, so i think that's all fair. >> were you? does it concern you as a democrat, a person of public life that people get picked up this way >> sure. >> a friend of mine got picked up like this so all the neighbors would see it the agents wanted all the neighbors to see this guy was under investigation. your thoughts? >> i don't think we should go out of our way to humility

people as a government i also don't know what dangers or what concerns the agents or the fbi may have had had, but yes, i don't think we should wo go out of our way to publicly humility somebody on their way to the station. >> i think the ends don't justify the means but the ends were acceptable valid. thank you all. much more on this huge story tonight including a unique look at roger stone's long history as a washington dirty trickster i've known the guy for years i have video of stone that shows how important and intimate a figure he is watch we're getting to the heart of who roger stone s. the other huge story tonight, president trump, the man who built his brand as the master deal maker has caved. the government is reopening for

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i guess we're sleeping here tonight. xfinity home. simple. easy. awesome. call, go online or demo in an xfinity store today. welcome back to "hardball. after five or six and two missed paychecks for more than 800,000 federal workers, an end to the longest federal government shutdown is is coming into view. president trump caved on his demand for a border wall, we know that now. agreeing to open the government without the wall >> i am very proud to announce today that we have reached a deal to end the shutdown and reopen the federal government. [ applause ] >> as everyone knows, i have a very powerful alternative, but i didn't want to use it at this time >> the president tried to paint

the announcement as a victory, but the deal notably includes not a nickel for the wall. instead it funds the government for three weeks until february 15th and leaves the issue of $5.7 billion for a border wall aside for further negotiations but the president left on the table the prospect of taking another drastic action >> so let me be very clear we really have no choice but to build a powerful wall or steal barrier. if we don't get a fair deal from congress, the government will either shut down or february 15th again or i will use the powers afforded to me under the laws and the constitution of the united states to address this emergency. >> just is a short time ago the

house joined the senate in passing legislation to temporarily fund the agencies. the blow back for trump was swift. at least one hard right commentator within minutes, ann coulter, tweet that the president was, quote, the biggest wimp ever to serve as president of the united states his retreat over the wall marks the second time this week trump capitlated to house speaker nancy pelosi who insisted on no negotiations for the wall until the government was reopened. the speaker and minority leader chuck schumer spoke. >> did the president underestimate you politically and can you assure the public there won't be another impasse in three weeks >> i can't assure the public on anything that the president will do but i do have to to say i'm optimistic i can't characterize the president's evaluation of me. >> do you think he thought he

could get what he wanted >> i think he thought no one should ever underestimate the speaker as donald trump has learned. >> i'm joined by gregory meeks and jonathan lanier. congressman, as a politician, what do you think of this standoff this week looks like the president caved, lost 100%. it's all lost for him >> nancy pelosi is the master negotiator we could have avoided all of this if he had just listened to nancy pelosi in the beginning. >> he listened to russia limbaugh and ann coulter >> clearly they don't know how to run a government. and they could see they were losing and had lost the american people because of the trump shutdown in the beginning. and so now as nancy as said, because democrats all along, we want border security, but we want sensible and reasonable border security. and i think the format they're putting together, that working like it is a conference

committee. >> the regular way. >> with six democrats, six republicans, and both house and senate sit down with the experts so we can talk about how do we really secure the borders and hire judges and law enforcement and make sure we have drones and electronics that's up to date, that's what you do that's what nancy pelosi was talking about from day one. >> you think trump would buy a smart solutions that really dealt with border enforcement or he wants the symbolic brick wall >> i think that he's now backed into a corner. >> he's not going to get the brick wall >> no, sometimes the con is up he started conning the american people in the beginning when he said he's going to build a brick wall and mexico's going to pay for it the con is up. he can't do that. >> it's interesting to watch -- thank god we have video so you can watch these meetings in the oval office itself he started to audiocassette her down i know the tricky situation nancy's in right now

she can't speak for the house democrats. and he calls her nancy and she just called him on it. she just said, don't talk to me about my political situation and my leadership. and now he's got an object lesson from her. >> there's no question one of the results of this shutdown is that her power has only increased. no question as an equal to him in washington, which drives him privately sort of insane this is obviously a good news story that workers are going to get paid again, but this is a loss for the white house and they know it if the art of the deal had been this negotiation, no one would have bought that book. there was a sense of resignation there. it was a question of trying to spin it in some sort of victory, try to sell it to republicans that it's not an entire cave but we're seeing the right not buying it >> let's look at the language of what the word cave really means. senator lindsey graham has a

warning what will it would mean for trump if he gave in on his demand for a border wall. >> if he gives in now, that's the end of 2019 of him being the end of an effective president and the end of his presidency. >> some in conservative media bolstered that point today breitbart wrote -- while the examiner, a conservative paper said trump blinks. one former trump administration official told nbc news the move was a, quote, total kaye unless he calls national security emergency when he doesn't get the wall fully funded. congressman,i have to ask you about this at the end of this cooling off per, three weeks of cooling off, if the president goes on television from the oval office and gives one of these john f. kennedy kind of things, this is a national emergency, we have to secure the wall, i'm doing it with funds from the defense department, what would the

congress do? >> at that point he won't have any close because of the negotiations between democrats, republicans, house, and senate put something on his desk. then if he tries to go against all his senators, it was significant yesterday. senate vote, six republicans voted with democrats the democratic alternative had more votes than republicans. that showed him that he's losing all of the senators. >> do you think he would let his republican conferee agree to a compromise on border security that didn't include a barrier. >> mitch mcconnell is in troubling too. they're trying to protect their own you know what. >> the white house looked into this a few weeks seriously considering and backed away because they don't feel like they're going to get support from republicans on this they're afraid republicans on

the hill are not going to be willing to give up that sort of power to the executive branch and they're afraid of setting a precedent for future candidates to declare a national emergency for a liberal cause. >> can you identify who gets credit for this deal >> mitch mcconnell's reemergence is what broke this because he engaged in the process, the white house realized they had to move. >> because of the fear you asked him. >> exactly right. >> and speaker pelosi deserves a ton of credit for holding her ground she outmaneuvered the president over this last month. >> let's talk theatrics. i know you're a serious politician trump walks out with that strut of his, the open coat, the tie eight feet long, and he auswaggs out as if he won

>> he's a salesman that's what he does. you talk about "the art of the deal." if the art of the deal is going bankrupt, that's donald trump. he's gone bankrupt six times and now on the financial services committee people are going to be looking at those dealings. there's big things going on right now. >> there's nancy pelosi, speaker of the house, signing the bills to get the government open is he going to call her nance anymore. >> i thought it was interesting. in the office he said nancy pelosi, or as i call her, nancy. it's been interesting that he has at this point he doesn't know what to make of her he was telling people around him that he felt he could deal with her, that he did respect her, that yes, she's been a useful whipping boy, or girl in this case, for republicans for a long time they raised a lot of money off her name, but privately he said i could negotiate with her and then bash her. right now he's been utterly

beaten >> thank you, congressman and jonathan lemire. coming up, between roger stone's arrest today at dawn and trump caving in, it's been a pretty rough day for mr. president despite his costuming there. where is all this taking us? senator amy klobuchar of minnesota, i think she's running for president too, by the way, joins us next. it's absolute confidence

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the charges today relate in no way to russian collusion, wikileaks collaboration, or any other illegal act in connection with the 2016 campaign. >> i am very proud to announce today that we have reached a deal to end the shutdown and reopen the federal government. >> welcome back to "hardball." tonight the white house is suffering huge casualties on two fronts, both are very bad for the president. first trump's longtime adviser roger stone was arrested, placed in skmalgz indicted by the special counsel all this morning. his indictment says he was in touch with senior trump campaign officials about the release of those wikileaks documents leading up to the 2016 election. then came the news that trump caved on the shutdown announcing a deal to reopen the government without money for the border i'm joined by u.s. senator amy

klobuchar of minnesota put it together. this is a historic day, senator, and i don't know, they both seem bad for trump. what's in it for the country what happened today. >> what's in it for the country is that finally these workers are going to be able to go back to work. i was listening to the rightful praise of the work that speaker pelosi and senator schumer and the rest of us did in standing our ground and not giving into the president because every time he gut punches you, but the real credit are those workers, 800,000 frankly workers doing their jobs without pay everyone saw them at the airports, the prison workers, the people at the -- you name it all these security agencies, the fbi, i served some of them lunch today in the food line, just a few blocks from the white house. it was an unbelievable thing that the president let this happen, and those workers are back to work. >> i think it's stupid

i wonder if the democratic party would be willing to say no more government shutdowns there's no excuses for them. this shouldn't be a tool, the art of politics shutting down our governmentans angry tantrum. can't the leaderships of both parties just say never again we're not going to do this anymore? >> actually, senator warren has a bill, the stupidity act, which looks at doing that. i know he's going to do some work on that bill, and there should be a way to do this because these workers shouldn't be a pawn. and that's what this president has allowed to happen to this country. i think when you've heard about the deals he made in new york, a lot of times he just walked away from the table, maybe he wouldn't pay people. i think he found out today that you can't do that to an entire country, to the people of america, and you can't get by without paying american workers. >> it's a little unfair because

we're looking at a cross screen of trump walking out onto the steps there at the rose garden at the white house, a very historic spot, and he's got his coat open and that ridiculous red tie eight feet long and he's strutting. he put out the word that he didn't lose today. what do you make of that claim >> the only people that lost where are the american workers and the american people. just to look at it as a win/loss game is just typical of things that he said what we have to look at now is what are we going to do over the next three weeks this thing is over the day after valentine's day. the hope is that we can look at the security issues in a sensible, smart way, look at the technology, look at some of the border crossings and not do what he was suggesting, which made no sense, many security experts have said that but instead look at what works

best at the border and stop this chaos and start governing from opportunity. what i'm really worried about is what we're not doing pharmaceutical prices still rising and he talks a big game on that. we have proposals, we have to get them through the ice sheet melt in in greenland reaching a tipping point of we have to start moving on climate change. and all the time he creates chaos it becomes harder and harder for the country to move forward and to compete in this international economy. that's what we have to get back to doing and that is looking out and having the backs for the american people and not allowing him to create more chaos if there was any win today, it was that finally someone said to him enough is enough, we're going back to work. >> congratulations on being the first positive voice tonight in this country i'm glad to hear that. by the way, roger stone joins a growing list of people in trump's inner circle charged by special counsel robert mueller look at this in addition to roger stone, you

have michael cohen his campaign chair, paul manafort was found guilty on bank and tax fraud charges. rick gates pleaded guilty to similar charges. trump's first national security adviser michael flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi george papadopoulos also pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi this list is watergate length. >> in another way today, talk about an i told you so day, was for those of us who've been fight to protect this investigation but also making the point this is a national security issue, another country trying to influence our election and hack into campaigns and do things that were unbelievable in any other election we've seen in american history this indictment really got us closer to the truth because in this case you have an indictment sworn under law, which says, clearly, that someone in that campaign a senior official, asked roger stone to go over

there and start communicating on the release of these e-mails it showed what they were doing to hillary clinton, what they were trying to undermine her by attacking her health and making things up about her memory and other things this is exactly what we saw unfold before our eyes in the election it influenced the american people our main goal in the senate right now is and should be to allow that investigation to complete its course so the american people can have the whole story. that's why it's so important that report be released so we really know what happened. it's the only way to prevent i from happening again. >> senator, i think that nails it thank you so much for joining us up next, who exactly is roger stone? stick around for this one. how did he become the scariest person in american politics today? tracing the ties between a man notorious for his dirty tricks and the man currently occupying the oval office, including some very interesting video we're going to show you how close these two guys really are.

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. welcome back to "hardball. for roughly 50 years roger stone, a nixon and self-pro-claimed dirty trickster proudly pelgded his trade in the dark underbelly of american politics it was there he met donald trump. stone served as donald trump's first and longest serving political adviser. but the relationship dating back decades stone has also been closely associated with trump's 2016 campaign chair, paul manafort who's currently in jail awaiting sentencing. in the 1980s and '90s, stone and paul manafort for pandered together in a lobby and go consulting firm. as "the washington post" noted at the time, they had a list of clients that by 1988 already included donald trump. stone continued to be an intimate and top political

adviser to trump the 2016 documentary "get me roger stone," manafort said this about the close relationship with donald trump. >> roger's relationship with trump has been so interconnected that it's hard to define what's roger and what's donald. it will clearly be a donald trump presidency, i think it's influenced by stone philosophies roger's relationship with trump, they both see the world in a similar way. i think roger will see one more very significant impact he's had. >> a piece of hillary video that shows just how important roger stone was to trump's political rise back after this. was ahead of its time. still, we never stopped making it stronger. faster. smarter.

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so that you only pay for what you need. this is phoebe buckley, on location. uh... thanks, phoebe. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ how strong is our allegiance >> i'm a fervent supporter of the president. i think he's doing a good job of making america great again. >> roger stone's relationship with donald trump dates 40 years. trump joined and his then-girlfriend, melania, at a 1999 "hardball" college tour there they are sitting together when trump was talking about a run for president in the year

2000 20 years later roger stone has become a huge liability to trump's future i'm joined by david corn and ana shekter, b she knows more about roger this guy, it seems to me, was the classic and as long as he lives the dirty trickster of all times. >> and he's taken pride in being called that. he's not just a dirty trickster. that's sounds a little cute. he's been a conniving conspiracy theorist for decades now he started off works as you know with paul manafort as lobbiest representing autocrats, and thugs and oligarchs around the world. trying to shut down the recount in 2000 in miami, getting dirt on eliot spitzer and forcing him

out of office, putting together an anti-hillary campaign in 2008 that had an an anymore as a title that i can't even say on a family-friendly show so he's been lying, cheating and maybe stealing for a long time now and the indictment really shows he's really bad at lying just very basic lies but he went into the house intelligence committee thinking he had a magic shield and could say whatever he wanted and he wouldn't be held account for it >> how does he seduce these pow powerful figures like richard nix and donald trump how does he fall for them? what's he do psychologically >> he's one of these huge, larger than life new york characters you know them. we've covered them reporting just like donald trump and he's got ka irs father >> but the late jimmy breslin were good guys this is a bad guy. this is like roy cohn bad. roy cohn famous.

>> he likes to actually give out that image and i think that gives him a powerful image he's willing to go there and do the dirty tricks and get the job done and so far until now he's gotten away with it. >> look at him here. he looks - david, he looks like he's enjoying this. like i always thought nixon in some weird way liked all the attention of the watergate prosecution. in some sick way he liked the attention. you know what i mean like any narcissist would. >> we've all known for roger for many years and i think narcissist is a good word for him and it also applies to trump. maybe there's a bond there roy cohn was a dirty underhanded player who was trump's lawyer, also lawyer for the mob and trump loved him. he was a mentor in a lot of ways i think when roy left the scene, roger was a natural person to gravitate towards. he's a bit of a kook

he put out a book saying bill clinton was tied to a series of murders. he's a conspiracy theorist who hangs out with alex jones and yet he was considered a vip, a vip at the republican convention for trump. that was in 2016 >> where did these two meet? at some mixer, college mixer where did they get together? i'm kidding because he's an underworld figure in many ways and trump seems to know a few underworld figures >> they go back 40 years roger stone and knew fred trump before he knew donald trump and it sort of makes sense the friendship would forge and really do have have a bond that's developed over these years. >> where did they meet >> i actually don't though where they met but they go way back and roger has been telling m how they go way back he's not going to turn on the president. >> what's he doing sitting next

to melania at -- not even that but he's like an escort >> that's an interesting word to use for roger stone actually he pushed the manhattan madam to run for office in new york and was the backer of her campaign >> is that how he got the stuff on eliot spitzer >> that's right. that was all part of it. he loves this stuff. he loves to be right at the heart of the most controversial thing that could happen. >> he was the political guru for trump. trump was a business guy but he talked about running for president and for governor of new york many times. and roger was always at his side egging him on, and when he started this campaign in 2015, it was basicall two or three people working with him, roger stone, and that was it so he has turned to roger for political advice >> that's all donald trump needed was more bad influence. thank you, anna schechter for your influence and david cornen,

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the man arrested at dawn today once said it was better to be infamous than not famous at all. roger stone loves being in the action he was pushing trump for president even before trump was. that thing he said about being

infamous rather than not famous at all is the roger stone i have known for decades and far from pushing dirt or trading rumors, he was actually expressing his life-long ambition stone wanted to be known maybe he still does, as the master of the dark political arts a primo dirty trickster, the last but still dangerous devotee of richard millhouse nixon there are people known for pulling off schemes that undercut their rivals. i think i know most of the big ones like paul corbin who stole jimmy carter's debate material and got them to his rival, ronald reagan or dick tuck, the vintage democratic trickster who drove candidate, richard nixon berserk. and writing in one report "love this job." what has raised roger stone in the pantheon of the dark arts is his relentlessness. that's what makes this washington figure i've known for

decades so dangerous he doesn't quit. what roger stone said about being infamous rather than not famous at all. that's what i can see richard nixon saying that's something i can imagine richard nixon himself saying if he were as outrages a character as roger stone "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. >> disturbing that the special counsel's office released a press release prior to informing -- >> roger stone's time in the barrel >> oh, my god, i'm busted. >> as the trump shutdown finally ends >> we do not need 2,000 miles of concrete wall from sea to shining sea. >> tonight for the first time, the special counsel links the trump campaign to wikileaks. >> i love reading those wikileaks. >> roger stone charged with seven counts. >> well, roger is a good guy and a t.