welcome back to "up," i'm david gura the longest government shutdown in history ended and the poll lit. >> caller: fallout h-- latest fa just begun and the state of the union is heading to the state of the union.

63%, six out of every ten americans think the country is on the wrong track and the majority of americans blame president trump for the shutdown 50% blame trump and 37% blame democrats. respondents said disarray, turmo turmoil, shambles and declining. perhaps not surprising after we saw image after image of federal workers lining up after missing two paychecks after we heard them protesting and pleading with president trump to let them return to work and be paid there was the chaos in airports, there were signs senate republicans were ready to break with the president and swift condemnation from right-wing n pundits that called the president a wimp and said he caved for nothing. 35 days later the government is open and back to square one, this normalcy may be temporary. >> let me be very clear, we really have no choice but to

build a powerful wall or steel barri barrier. if we don't geta fair deal fro congress, the government will either shut down on february 15th, again, or i will use the powers afforded to me under the laws and the constitution of the united states to address this emergency. >> up with me this morning, chief washington correspondent for bloomberg news and a senior reporter for "real vision" and president of the brennan center for justice, a former chief speech writer to president bill clinton and an attorney and contributor to "essence" magazine let's go through the polling data as we have it i'll start with you and approval rating 43% of those approve of the path and 54% disapprove what does that tellus about what happened?

>> it's bad for president trump. if you're staring down the 2020 cycle, this is a miscalculations how this partial government shutdown would go. the difference is, watching that intro, david, typically, i think republicans particularly there is a line with president trump were banking on the back and forth between speaker pelosi and president trump in the white house but this story got out to cities it got out to flyover country. it got out of the beltway, and towns across the country from airports to communities were impacted by this and that's where there was a massive turning point in the final few days. >> i'm sure you watched that speech in the rose garden, it was odd there were two parts, a very brief victory by the president declaring victory of what happened and talked about how the last 35 days saw a spirited debate what will happen next when we know there was little negotiation happening during that period in time to kevin's point, how did administration under estimate or

mise misestimate what was going to happen as a result of the shutdown >> i think they gravely underestimated the way regular americans would be impacted by a government shutdown and the unpopularity of a wall if you're going to make something a sticking point and put so many lives actually on the line because their livelihood was on the line and they weren't being paid for so many weeks, make sure it's something everybody supports and very clearly they did not do that another thing about this poll and i know you'll go through the data, it's interesting to me that i feel like the first part of admitting or the first part is admitting you have a problem and i feel like at least we have gotten there it seems as americans,dis disastrous and going down the wrong direction, maybe now we can lift ourselves up a bit. >> michael, i'll turn to you in a moment, do you favor a wall on the southern border. 45% said yes, 52% said no.

in terms of what was under els mat -- estimated the president was adamant yes his base wanted this and others would come around to the idea this would be necessary. >> the wall has become this trump word for border security they want a path to legalization and reforms for undocumented immigrants here. the broad contours of public support on immigration has nl chan -- hasn't changed that much over the years as trump's base is more angry. i think what is significant for the election is trump has been held up by the strong economy, which in part was a obama and fed. the notion chaos and mismana mismanagement and shutting the government down for a talking point could undermine public confidence and pulls against the gravitational force of a strong economy for the politics of the next two years. >> michael is describing this

plasticity to this term. he spoke in the rose garden and said it won't be 2,000 miles of coast-to-coast wall, it will be something different. there is a huge amount of trouble nobody knows what this is at this point. >> right he can't keep, you know, focused on what it is he's trying to do, which i think is basically what we have seen. >> he wants what he said he fun. >> he said during that statement that, you know, nobody said that nobody said we wanted something from sea to shining sea and at one point, it was still slats and then a see through barrier we can't keep track of what it is he's saying, which i think cuts away at the credibility of his argument if you really say that we need this wall to protect us, to protect american lives, then you would be consistent with how you describe this wall and consistent as to the benefits of

this wall. he hasn't even be able to sell the idea to the american public and when you look at the numbers you threw up there, it's clear that people aren't buying this why? because they know that this wall is not going to keep us safe in this past week, we've had three mass shootings he has not even mentioned that so if you really care about american lives, why aren't you talking about these mass shootings? there are so many people who are dying from the lack of gun control and those kinds of things and he's missing the mark he's missing the opportunity to do that. if this is really an emergency and we know it isn't, right? because we've gone without this wall for two years when republicans had the house and could have voted and we went through a shutdown for 35 days, which was completely a waste of time people suffered and you still didn't get your wall and didn't get the funding for it so that tells me it's not an emergency so good luck trying to prove that in court -- exactly. >> kevin, she's describing a

thinking you had the president making over these last four or five weeks and it was the wall and nothing else maybe a cursory of the shutdown but became the thing this administration talked about and nothing else. >> first of all, if anyone had the misfortune of flying through philadelphia international airport to have flight delays on top of that because of this partial government shutdown, that's nonsensical the idea that every day folks are impacted by the dysfunction coming out of the washington, to michael's point is just a gro grossnegros grossness calculations. >> it was. >> i also think republicans miscalculate to what you were saying, they tried to make this for lack of a better term i'm going to use the cliche a wall on bodboarder security by saying you're against border security if you're for this wall. if you look at previous votes and what democrats are arguinar, i put this to benny thompson, the chairman of the committee

and house that overseas the u.s., mexico border funding. and he said it is a game of semantics because the propels that are coming out from the democrats, they are to have some type of border security there and finally, i mean, i actually would disagree with the panel respectfully this is a pause button this is a pause button because three weeks from now, the president said at the white house on friday, freezing cold, but he said essentially in the first sentence, he would declare a national emergency. >> sarah sanders doubling down. >> right i think -- >> yeah, but good luck proverin it's an emergency. that's the point i was making. one of the things that made this shutdown so horrible is you had this attitude coming from administration, let them eat cake you had the commerce secretary wilber ross say i don't understand why people are going to food pantries what it just doesn't -- you know, there is a disconnect and i

think what people saw, what americans saw is we have elected officials, we have people in the position who are supposed to meet our needs but they don't understand our needs. >> michael, jump in here. >> when wilber ross' comments were dubbed over the image of mr. burns from the simpsons and suddenly made sense, that was one of those moments where it fell apart the wheels did seem like they just fell off this thing in the last few days and let's not forget one thing, which none of us have mentioned. mexico was supposed to pay for this. >> this is true. >> where are the pesos. >> it becomes almost a laugh line when you actually look at the old footage of those rallies from two years ago i don't know if you were right, i think that the republicans and congress have been so obedient up until now but i think they would be really, really unhappy about the idea of jumping back into this may lay one more time and getting their heads handed to them again.

i think it will be that much harder the president turns out to have vast powers under congressional statute to declare emergencies in a way a lot of people didn't realize but even so, this emergency would be found, i think, illegal by the courts because it's not a real -- still has to follow actual laws of being an actual emergency. >> those are the areas congress is advocating responsibility for a long time and even during the obama administration, they werwe trying to wave the flag and saying we see executive over reach and these powers in someone else's hands, maybe we should pay attention and here we are now. >> let me put up more data looking at best qualities the president might have and how he ranks. i'll read. 43% say he's direct and straight forward communicating with the public 36% say he's a good negotiator 32% say he's steady and reliable 24% say he has high personal and ethical standards.

where the president goes from here, kevin you say there are fewer than three weeks for them to work out a deal how diminished is his negotiating posture? >> speaker pelosi won. i mean, this is a battle this isn't the war but in terms of -- i actually think when you look at the economic impacts of this point, 5% gdp would have been sliced when you look at 800,000 furloughed folks and countless small businesses across the country you can't measure impacts of folks not going to restaurants and stuff. from a political standpoint. speaker pelosi won this particular moment. that said, i think the president needs to move forward here and say okay, what's the next big idea because whether you disagree with the republican tax plan or not, that was something republicans rallied behind and were unified on and to michael's point, they were not unified when you have senator mitt romney, a republican from utah really -- >> still getting used to that,

by the way. >> same. >> when he's essentially aligning with democrats as he did on i believe thursday or wednesday, when that vote failed, that was a big signal that perhaps there might be some republicans who are willing to -- >> you're mentioning l trumthe pelosi -- let's come down and talk about that. the 35-day shutdown played out in plain sight crowning a clear victory to the political plateshi sfting in washington. that's next. -morning. -morning. -what do we got? -keep an eye on that branch. might get windy. have a good shift. fire pit. last use -- 0600. i'd stay close. morning. ♪ get ready to switch. protected by flo. should say, "protected by alan and jamie." -right? -should it? when you bundle home and auto... run, alan! ...you get more than just savings. you get 'round-the-clock protection.

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after a plane carrying supply was shot down last october exposing the operation, abrams said i can tell you there was no government involvement in this flight. today abrams insisted denials came about because he was mislead by the cia, defense department and national security counsel. >> every one of those statements, private and public was completely honest and completely wrong. >> that is the wrong piece of tape and i'll explain why it was there. mike pompeo explaining -- the point person for the state department on venezuela issues abrams who infamously back in 2016 during the campaign wrote a piece for the "weekly standasta saying he wouldn't back trump. perhaps erosion there. wrong piece of tape. nancy pelosi and chuck schumer

taking a victory lap after delivering president trump a humiliating defeat but before nancy pelosi reclaimed the gavel, trump was not the on one to under estimate the speaker. members of her party were ready to send her out to the political past tour. >> nancy pelosi was a great speaker. she is a great leader, but her time has come and gone. >> i've been calling for our leaders to step down. >> i think that it's time to pass the torch to a new generation. >> that rebellion quashed, she's going head-to-head with one president trump. >> nancy is in a situation where it's not easy for her to talk right now. >> mr. president, please don't char a characterize the strength i bring to suggesting taking away president's tv time but managed to keep her caucus in line don't give an inch and stay together she told nervous democrats as recently as this

week, if we counter offer trump on the wall we lose pelosi insisted and we are winning. it was a scene of complete chaos friday as longer stone left the courthouse with an entourage of groupies what do you make of this, the dynamic we saw play out in washington d.c. between nancy pelosi and donald trump. there is psycho analysis of what donald trump is thinking of her and met before your read of what happened. >> it's an adversary you can't belittle he gave her the terrible nickname of nancy. >> first name -- >> not a good sign. >> the speaker of the house is a constitutional office and she knows that it's actually in the contusion and she's been regarded before this as one of the most effective legislative leaders of the past century she did a very good job. she can count very well, and she kept her message simple and it was really interesting because there is this big surge of new members. almost like after watergate,

there were the watergate babies, 40 or so new members focused on reform and political reform who could have given her terrible and she's actually adopted them as part of her shock troops and it's been a very effective thing to watch somebody as capable as that managing this very unruly, you know, big institution of the house of representatives >> kevin, help us ride this wave you have nancy pelosi for her entire career, baltimore poli c politi politics she wasn't the most liked person in politics. >> i'm not going to fall for that. >> i'm not trying to get us there. >> come on [ laughter ] >> she enjoys a popular support she didn't have before. >> well, to michael's point, the freshman class of democrats are diverse in ideology and that she's been able to play to her advantage. the texas democrats that flipped districts, suburban democrats that flipped from republicans are very different than

congresswoman alexandria acok c that grabbed hold of the policy arm in the vein of senator elizabeth warren can we take a step back for a moment to reclaim the gavel of speaker of the house in washington d.c. in and of itself is -- takes a lot of political strength to put it mildly and i also think it all comes down to the bottom line here which is she did not engage with the battle line that was drawn of if you're against this wall, you're against national security and they were able to successfully make that case. >> this is something that reportedly drives the president crazy. we were talking a little bit about this republicans can't find unity they can't rally around him and rally around mitch mcconnell what explains to your mind her ability to do that to keep a caucus together on this issue in particular.

>> it's been, i have to say, also so impressive because democrats are notorious for caving and so, you know, if you look back historically, there are reasons we had policy that turned out to be not ideal policy because there were situations where we caved, compromised on certain things. the affordable care act rings a bell that and of itself we have to put into perspective here as an amazing feat and i think this caucus she has has made a big difference this young freshman class, people further to the left tagged the entire party in that direction and i think nancy pelosi is well aware that it isn't going to be okay, it will be unacceptable. she'll 100% lose that unity if she did cave on something like this. >> let's look ahead to the next three weeks. yes, there is a moment of power displayed as we've talked about over the last few minutes. you have a conference committee that will hammer this out in fewer than 21 days how is that power going to manifest itself and affect how

they go on on capitol hill >> i think the game changed. i think people recognize on both sides nancy pelosi is a force to be reckoned with this is a woman like we said has been able to reclaim the gavel for the second time and keep everyone in the fold, right, everyone is in formation to quote beyonce, to get in formation and stay in formation, like which is really, really important but she also, i think, has been able to stand up to donald trump in a way that other people have not including members of his own party so i think in the next three weeks, i think what these legislators ought to do is recognize that we have a job to do and that job is to figure out how to deal with this issue on the boarder. it is an issue it is a problem. but is it this sort of major ka t catastrophe donald trump and his administration made it out to be no let's fix it and see where we can go from here. >> i want to make one moore

point, sorry, michael. as much as we talk about nancy pelosi, ultimately, what brought this shutdown to an end and i think we still would have had a shut down ongoing were it not to be for the air traffic controllers and airport workers, it was the people who had to get frustrated been suffering and working for free that up taking a stand. >> it will happen faster if they try to shut it down next time. >> absolutely. >> i worked in the white house when newt beginnigingrich was te speaker. this is the first time the president shut the government down i think that's so jarring to people that the person one hopes will take stewartship of the executive branch would trash it for the hell of it is really tough. >> all right we'll come back here it was a circus to be sure outside the fort lauderdale courthouse on friday there was groupies surrounding

roger stone as he left the courthouse we'll talk about that in a moment but first, "saturday night live" the indicted trump con c steve matchen. >> i could only manage one interview and a speech from the steps of the courthouse and television it's horrible. >> thank you for your time, mr. stone. >> pardon me >> i said thank you. >> oh, no, i thought that was a question i was saying that to the president. pardon me.

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. error i made in my testimony would be both inmaterial and without intent. >> they repurpose chant in fort lauderdale yelling lock him up it was a circus-like atmosphere as media and spectators gathered to take it all in. >> we have folks who gathered here out of sheer curiosity. even with their little dog with them i'll just ask you, what -- you are just walking by. how did youhear about this

>> my birthday is on sunday so i thought this would be a great birthday president to witness history live. >> i support roger stone i believe in roger stone, he's my neighbor. i believe in him i believe it's a witch hunt and i'm here because i stand with roger. >> as he prepares for his arraignme arraignment. they are speaking with the media and perhaps more familiar to the public stone associate jerome corsi, dr. jerome corsi had some advice. >> what would you say to roger right now? >> tell the truth. roger should not under estimate the extensiveness of this investigation. the special prosecutor should be assumed to have everything. >> i'll turn to kevin first. you have interviewed roger stone at least one time that i know of, more than that you've known him for sometime. >> yes. >> what do you make of that circus let's start there. the fact you had a neighbor showing up and yes, many dozens

of cameras and reporters but also passers by who wanted to stop by. >> i think he loves it i don't think he loves the severity of the situation but i think you saw the glee on his face walking out of the courtroom in fourrt lauderdale, arms up, peace signs all of that. there is an element of that to where he would enjoy that for lack -- i mean, i think the seriousness of the situation is something i saw on capitol hill when he and alex jones, the conspiracy theorist were outside of a google hearing, and, you know, he's doubling down and believes this is a witch hunt. we heard it time and time again but i think that when you read through that 23-page indictment, there is a seriousness to this now and michael on that panel, i spoke with him the other day and roger stone is going to fight this and not just in a courtroom, and i think that there is an understanding here, even at the white house on

friday for president trump not to take questions. >> yeah. >> knowing full well that yes, the shutdown would come up but also roger stone, i thought that was very telling now of this situation. >> we see roger stone outside of his out in southern florida. kevin talks about the severity, you look at him with the blue polo shirt and seemed like somebody not reckoning at all. >> it's a circus and i have said this and i've been saying this for the past two years, elect the clown, expect a circus you understand what i'm saying he's thumbing his nose at law and order and this entire process, and it's just astonishing that this is where we are as america, right every single day or now, forget t.g. t.g.i.f. fridays now mean indictment fridays. it's no longer fun we have close people to the president who are being indicted

and accused of serious crimes and lying to congress, misleading the fbi and all of it centers around the campaign, all of it centers around assisting russia to elect donald trump and to hurt hillary clinton and so the role that he played in terms of his relationship with wikileaks is something we'll find out more and more again but the allegations in the indictment are incredibly serious. >> i'm being told roger stone is speaking to reporters. i won't put that up. outside the courthouse but in other interviews, we'll bring back to you whatever he says, if there is anything of substance there. what do you make of the gambit the fact he's casting doubt on the investigation again? we're seeing the docontours of legal strategy. >> you're exactly right. he can act like this is a big joke he can act that way -- >> good luck with that. >> with his cell mate. if you need the indictment and it just an indictment, the charges are quite serious in terms of attempts for perjury by other witnesses, threats to

kidnap their dog, real bad stuff even if done with an antic absurdness going back to the very basic point, this was about an assault on american democracy by a hostile, foreign government that has been shown over and over again to deeply reach into the trump campaign and we haven't heard the end of it but one of the things that has to happen, i think, going forward is it would be very good if at some point this could be brought out in real open public investigations in congress not just waiting for indictments on a friday because mueller's job is to find crimes but the crime against democracy in a sense is the thing that great congressional investigations have focused on before and just as a historical matter, it wasn't only victory sign, it was what richard nixon did as he got on the helicopter after being forced out of office in 1974 so there was irony in that. >> there is an antic quality, i

was reminded about maggie haberman wrote, roger stone was on the outside because it was unbelievable who done it and now he finds himself in the center of it. you get the last word here how should we regard him in light of the antic equalities here >> i think roger stone has always been a showman, just from the aspect of the way he speaks about everything, his clothing, everything about him is that way. i just want to make one other point here it was interesting for me was the kind of freakout from a lot of people when roger stone was arrested on a friday they couldn't believe the show of force, which on necessary hoy pails in comparison to the drug raid and swat teams and that to me trickles back to now you see roger stone, other trump associates being caught for lying. this position where they are not used to having justice applied to them. >> roger stone, they return to the foyer of him home in

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the 2020 buzz this week, former starbucks ceo with speculation for a run for the presidency the concern among democrats, he'd likely run as an

independent that could split the anti trump vote that could reelect president trump. in the "60 minutes" interview he was taking a swipe at republicans and democrats sayin we're living at a fragile time, not just that the president isn't qualified but the american people engaged every day in revenge politics is it too tall of an order schultz joins a growing field that includes kamala harris and there is speculation senator bernie sanders and beto among a hand full of others. let me raise a question, new america foundation writes for "the new york times", who is possibly a member of the howard schultz consptituencconstituenc

>> schultz is socially quite progressive. cares a lot about racial justice but presumably, economically more conservative and did a lot on health care but probably would not go the bernie sanders route. that model of sort of socially progressive economically moderate, that's actually a chunk of the democratic party and sometimes these third party candidates, they take from both or they bring in some new force. it's hard to see necessary what force he brings in that wouldn't be part of a democratic collision, i don't imagine a lot of people in red hats voting for him although the moderate republicans who held their noses in the suburbs and voted for trump and a lot of them fliped to vote for democrats in this midterm election, perhaps they would like somebody like him. >> the atlantic had the piece that broke that in this news might be happen and talked to people familiar with the "60

minutes" interview a lifelong democrat would run under the theory the answer to the political division in the country is moving away from party politics continuing there is little evidence to support that as people report being more polarized and partisan devoted to their party and demonizing the others. do you see that happening? >> i very much think it would be great if we didn't have an entrenched two-party system in the political space but unfortunately, i don't see howard schultz as somebody to shake that up. he, as michael pointed out, would come across as a democrat and so, you know, what are you ultimately going to bring to the table running as an independent and as you mentioned, poll after poll after poll including the nbc poll we talked about at the top of the show shows people are incredibly divided and still are incredibly partisan and yes,

it's a problem, you know, that this country has right now but i don't see howard schultz as the one to solve it. >> speaking of s, here is david axelr axelrod, schultz would put the froth on donald trump's cinnamon dolche latte vanity projects, it helped destroy democracy is disgusting if he enters the race. i'll start a starbucks boycott because i won't give a penny to somebody that will help trump win. >> the jokes. >> enough. i promise. >> with all due respect, i'm not trying to be rude but the coffee jokes, like coffee -- >> yeah. >> that said, look, what's one more everyone under the sun is running for president. if he wants to run, let him run. ideas, ideas, ideas. ideas matter. >> they do. >> look, right now, of all of

these folks who are running, i can't tell you what the major idea with the exception really of senator elizabeth warren. the democrat from massachusetts and she came out with a tax policy you might think it's crazy and not crazy enough, you might love it, you might hate it but you know what she stands for and that is, you know, i think senator harris, senator camilla hard ra -- kamala harris had a great launch this isn't a personality contest, this is about ideas. >> people misunderstand and focus the on the personalities too much the only primary that matters is the ideas primary and every time there is a big change in american politics, whether it's ronald reagan or donald trump or bill clinton, they actually came in with a new agenda that surprised people that maybe solved problems that hadn't been addressed before that shook up the policy architecture and typical for people to say nobody cares about that stuff if donald trump had not talked

about -- >> the wall. >> the wall and anti immigrant sentiment, he would have been another reality show star. >> quickly to follow up, enough with what the donor class wants, enough of that let's hear what their ideas are and who they are surrounding themselves with as policy advisors so that we know the type of policy prescriptions that all of these candidates are prescribing for this moment. >> not taking money from the dow narcotic class was big and revolutionary. wh who else is going to be doing that >> you look at kamala harris, she raised $1.5 million, 35,000 of the donations came from individuals. this is becoming a sorts. >> it is a major point to make one of the things that people liked about bernie sanders is he was able to raise a lot of money from grass roots people, people that never before participated in politics and not take money from large corporations and i

think over the past few years, we have seen what happens in america when you have too many corporations or private interests or lobbyists inflew on -- influencing our policy for instance, the ncra comes to mind you have them strung and cannot act on behalf of constituents because they received payments from lobbyists and large companies. it's important for us to not freak out, okay? it's still early [ laughter ] >> like calm down, okay? it's still early let these people run let them put their ideas forward. we still have time calm down. >> one big development we should all be watching, h.r. 1. house of representatives bill number one democrats put forward campaign finance reform, automatic voter registration these are things that have not been at the center of american politics but the voters are ahead of everybody else and if one of the presidential candidates or more than one grab

this, that will be the kind of thing that could catch fire, even in addition to their personality and that sort of thi thing. >> and let people actually vote. >> which should be happening in a democracy. >> up next, a report sheds light on the startling number of contacts donald trump and his campaign had leading up to the inauguration why one democrat is calling it a counter intelligence nightmare tt consider treatments, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once daily pill for psoriatic arthritis. taken with methotrexate or similar medicines, it can reduce joint pain... ...swelling and significantly improve physical function. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, low blood cell counts, higher liver tests and cholesterol levels. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. your doctor should perform blood tests

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moments ago newly indicted trump associate roger stone entertained the possibility of cooperating with robert mueller. take a listen. >> you'll cooperate with special counsel robert mueller if he asks >> you know, that's a question i would have to determine after my attorneys have some discussion if there is wrongdoing by other people in the campaign that i know about which i know of none, but if there is, i would certainly testify honestly i would also testify honestly about any other matter includin communications with the president. >> have to spend time parsing that in a moment team trump had more than a hundred interactions with russians before the presidential inauguration we have been following this for some time now. i was flipping through the "new york times." you can't find it. it's this amazing online graphic in which that's laid bare how many calls and interactions there were >> right. >> astonishing to see it

your takeaway from that in concert with what we learned about roger stone this week? >> far from there being no collusion there was a deep entanglement in weird and troubling ways between this campaign, russia and its interests who were especially trying to undo hillary clinton and change american policy it doesn't matter if they were clowns or didn't think they would win. they were doing something no american should do and no american campaign does in a long, long time. we'll learn a lot more if had all come out in a day as opposed to the drip, drip, drip of leaks and indictments people would faint at this notion this is a big deal. >> i will put up some of the numbers. michael cohen had at least 17 contacts george papadopoulos, 12. paul manafort, six michael flynn at least five. roger stone at least 18 that we

know about we were talking about keeping the big picture perspective. >> we were talking about it on the break how you need to step back and have the map laid out for you. there is so much information coming out all the time. it's hard to keep track. i'm glad the "new york times" did this i want to make one point as a russian-american i feel like i get frustrated when either on cable news or newspapers say contacts with russians who had connections to xyz. it always feels like, you spoke to a russian by no means am i defending here. >> a fair criticism. >> the trump campaign or any of his associates it's always just, the russians >> kevin, your takeaway? >> i just think we need to keep focused on the big picture if you're a republican, a democrat, take a step back and think about this for a second. a foreign government, a foreign government trying to divide a

nation not along party lines, socioeconomic lines, gender, sexual orientation lines to stoke hatred in our democratic nation that's unacceptable. this is what we are all reporting on and what we are talking about. >> i'm sorry i have to push back for a second what we are also not talking about is the fact that we have divisions that run so deep that are easily exploitable. >> i agree i don't take it as pushback. >> clearly the problem was there. what they did is purposefully inflame the problems it's not just a foreign country. r adverse to us and means to do us

harm they are not our friends >> one thing we should look at also is the media in many ways was complicit in this. >> of course >> everybody ran those wikileaks e-mails as though they were a big, big story out of a desire to have balance. we all roll our eyes at james comey saying he assumed hillary clinton would win so he did the extra letter which turned out to torpedo her. a lot of people did the same thing in effect. >> and didn't really investigate donald trump to the extent they should. >> he was not properly vetted. >> i would respectfully disagree that the media was complicit in anything there was a ton of great -- >> in anything come on. >> in the sense of aiding russia i respectfully disagree. >> michael. >> i think to your point though about james comey, as a whole, the u.s. government, both parties need to really look at

how we are defending ourselves on cyber, hacking. >> you have democrats and republicans coming together on this you had dan coats and other officials saying the lights are blinking red a lot of state officials -- >> they're not up to speed. >> thanks for joining me in new york coming up next hour, joy and her all-star panel keep the 2020 conversation going ahead of the kickoff event for kamala harris's campaign this afternoon in oakland, california i don't keep track of regrets.

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that does it for me. thank you very much for watching "a.m. joy" with joy reed starts now. speaker pelosi, did the president underestimate you politically and can you assure the public there won't be another impasse in three weeks >> i can't assure the president on anything the president will do but i do have to say i'm optimistic i can't characterize the president's evaluation of me. >> i think he thought no one should ever underestimate the speaker as donald trump has learned. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." if it wasn't clear before, nancy pelosi has now definitely made it clear two things tha