that does it for me. thank you very much for watching "a.m. joy" with joy reed starts now. speaker pelosi, did the president underestimate you politically and can you assure the public there won't be another impasse in three weeks >> i can't assure the president on anything the president will do but i do have to say i'm optimistic i can't characterize the president's evaluation of me. >> i think he thought no one should ever underestimate the speaker as donald trump has learned. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." if it wasn't clear before, nancy pelosi has now definitely made it clear two things that aren't going to

happen, the president was forced to cave on what was the core promise of his campaign. a border wall stretching across the southern border that mexico would pay for. in an attempt to water down what could be viewed as a major defeat for donald trump and republicans, trump insists the wall will still happen and 19 days from now if congress still refuses to produce a bill making american taxpayers fund a border wall, trump says he'll either shut down the government again, weaponizing the livelihoods of thousands, tens of thousands of federal workers because it worked so well from the last time or trump says he'll declare a national emergency to build the wall. in the past it's been used in times of war or genuine public emergency. >> if we don't get a fair deal

from congress, the government will either shut down on february 15th again or i will use the powers afforded to me under the laws and the constitution of the united states to address this emergency. >> it should be noted there is no border crisis according to u.s. customs and border protection statistics, border crossings by undocumented migrants are at near record lows joining me now, natasha bertrand from the atlantic, gabe sherman from "vanity fair," jason johnson, politics editor at "the root" and jennifer ruben, opinion writer from "the washington post. gabe, it is definitive two things are clear number one, donald trump and republicans took the blame for the previous shutdown. here is the latest polling

january 20 to 23 50% blame trump. 37% blame the republicans. the other thing that's clear statistically, americans don't want a border wall 45% in favor, 52% opposed. no matter who you poll the strategy didn't work. >> yeah. >> the end product isn't wanted. >> yeah. >> in your reporting is the white house really determined to even use the national emergency act to try to force this policy on the american people >> that's a great question there is a debate inside the white house. clearly there is pressure from the right. there is some wings of donald trump's base that want it. the other problem is if he does declare the state of emergency it sets a precedent that republicans are scared of that in future administrations presidents could say climate change is a national emergency we need extraordinary powers. >> right. >> the pressure is for him not to do this he has zero options. he didn't get his wall the only card he has left to

play is one that his own administration doesn't want him to. >> we'll talk about the national emergency powers in a minute to be clear, donald trump is in a weak negotiating position now. he did just give up the entire point of the 35-day shutdown by signing a bill that doesn't have wall funding so that's clear. his antagonist in this, nancy pelosi, the house speaker, i don't know how she could be more clear. even journalists don't seem to get it yet here she is sparring on the point of whether or not this idea of funding the wall will happen take a listen. >> are you no longer ruling out any money for the wall are you now open for money for the wall >> have i not been clear on the wall >> you have not been. >> i have been very clear on the wall. >> what's interesting is i'm not sure at this point who wants this wall more -- the media or the right. there is this consistent drumbeat about democrats are you going to give them money for the wall why won't you? is there going to be money for the wall it doesn't seem to be going

away in your reporting is there any chance that democrats will suddenly wake up one morning and decide they want to give donald trump a doumt on what could be $50 billion, $70 million, whatever for a wall. >> he already caved. why would they now they know he has no leverage they hold all of the cards the reason it worked is democrats stayed unified republicans did not. republicans, we saw the first cracks in their unity last week. six senate republicans voted with democrats to re-open the government democrats know now and speaker pelosi has been skillful at keeping them together. all they have to do is stay firm for a little bit longer and they're going to get their way the president has already proven that he's willing to back down on this. the only people that are going to start to pester and annoy him are people like ann coulter and lou dobbs. the democrats don't have anything to fear now i think as long as they stay firm on this then they realize

they have all the leverage mitch mcconnell was chewed out last week at a meeting by senate republicans saying, you got us into this. it's not the president that decides what the public perception is. it's the public. the public was upset blaming republicans for it not democrats. of course it means democrats have all the leverage. >> the way schoolhouse rock taught us that politics works is if you want something. if you want appropriation, the house of representatives would have to pass it. the house is controlled by the party whose speaker said, i don't know how many other ways i can tell you no. you would need 60 votes in the senate to pass it. republicans just lost six of them on whether or not to keep the government shut down in order to fund a wall the next vote probably would have been 16 or 20 of them they're going to start to fade i am curious as to why we are still debating a policy that's not wanted, unpopular and only

donald trump and ann coulter know about. >> you have people on the right who believe the fantasy. people in the press who don't believe in the speaker like nancy pelosi made it clear she's the breaker of walls t slayer of trump. there won't be a wall. that won't happen. people keep asking because they assume the democrats will flake at some point. we are talking about nancy pelosi, not chuck schumer. >> they assume based on what on what are the media basing the idea that suddenly democrats will give in to a policy on which they have already won? >> one, because i think there is precedent in the past for democrats folding to trump precedent saying there is wiggle room here. people want it to be a story as grotesque as it is there are over a million people held hostage and suffering. there are analysts who believe the discussion of the wall is just an interesting story we should be talking about as opposed to an indicator of a racist monument used to hold a

million people hostage there is no movement on this i don't think the president will declare a national emergency that's a nonstarter. mitch mcconnell has to gain a spine, sit down quietly with the president to say this can't happen take $5 million in border security we'll give you flowers for a border to create, but a wall isn't going to happen. the sooner the press stops spreading the story we can move on. >> i agree with that assessment. jennifer, the other aspect of this that could be just an interesting washington story that would have real world consequences is the idea of a national emergency trump keeps throwing out that he'll do it. he had a public address where he could have declared it and did not. members of his own party say this is a bad idea it would set a precedent previous national emergencies include theiranian hostage crisis, 9/11, swine flu

outbreak, violence and atrocities in the democratic republic of con go, the cuban missile crisis number two, it is not just a thing you can do it is bounded by the national emergencies act of 1976 which gives the president discretion he has to notify congress and specify which power he intends to use congress can then block it by passing a resolution in both chambers the president has to report to nancy pelosi it's not lincoln rescindi ining habeas corpus like trump assumes. how do they justify -- how does lindsey graham justify the idea of giving trump the powers i will put up on the board powers that are broad, even with congressional oversight.

power to amend laws, to temporarily appoint a qualified person to an officer grade in the military incredible power sweeping power how do they justify that for something that isn't an emergency? >> because they are toadies of donald trump they have lost all credibility intellectually this is not constitutional government no sense of any form of conservativism as we have know it in the past this is just toady-ism and the cult of donald trump if they wants to do it, they are for it there are a zillion reasons it won't fly including the fact you can't make an emergency conditional. he said the emergency is congress not giving him what he wants. that's not an emergency. that's first problem the second problem is you get to have a resolution. if memory serves me, that's not subject to a filibuster. so it is only a 50-vote

disallowing of that emergency declaration. as you said, republicans are very much concerned because there are emergencies like gun violence in america, like global warming that republicans could well use this is another idle threat. he's been threatening this forever. i love the panache with which nancy pelosi says, have i not been clear it's like the mother or grandmother voice. have i not been clear with you she'll do it again they have to come up with some ridiculous compromise. as she said and jason alluded to, plant a row of flowers and call it the wall they'll come up with some ridiculous definition that trump claims victory on or maybe, i don't know, sean hannity gives him a permission slip. i don't know what's interesting is that not the entire republican crazy wing we now have a sliver of the crazy wing

it's come down on trump. you have the fox people schilling for him, making excuses. if they can make excuses for this, why not for the next case? >> i want to come to you this strikes me as a question of delineation of powers not between congress and the president but between donald trump and ann coulter. it's a question of who has more power. whether fox news goes with her or whether fox news goes with him. in the end, who will the fox news people go with? sean hannity who will he go with -- coulter or trump >> amazing question. in the past we have seen the fox news audience has broken with trump. back to the 2016 campaign when megyn kelly was tangling with trump the audience took trump's side now donald trump is on the wrong side of the base on the signature issue he ran on which was stopping the flow of mexicans coming to the united states this manufactured crisis that he put out there.

the question is, you know, how does sean hannity whose audiences are basically an audience of one, donald trump. he really can't prop up for that so much longer. >> who controls the audience who is their leader? is it donald trump or is it ann coulter et al? if it's donald trump then the big losers in this wall controversy, contratemps are the right wing media it will turn out they don't control the audience donald trump does. he may wake up one morning and discover his own power who has the power over that audience >> the "new york times" had a story this morning that said donald trump the wounded there is now growing ferment on the right that the base is soft and he'll be a primary challenger. >> we'll come back that's the big question. natas natasha, gabe, jennifer, see you in a little bit. he was convicted of a crime during iran contra but now

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that's how xfinity makes tv... simple. easy. awesome. after a plane carrying supplies to the contras was shot down exposing the operation abrams told a house committee i can tell you there was no government involvement in the flight today abrams insisted the denials came about because he

was misled by the cia, the defense department and the national security council. >> every one of the statements, private and public, was completely honest and completely wrong. >> elliot abrams who pleaded guilty on two misdemeanors to lying to congress about iran contra and was pardoned later by george herbert walker bush just became the united states new special envoy to venezuela abrams' surprise appointment comes as the political crisis in venezuela came to a head when juan giude declared himself president and president trump recognized him jennifer ruben is back with me steve evans from the atlantic and mariana atencio, msnbc correspondent. steve, on the history of elliot

abrams first he was a surprise pick in part because he did the thing you are not supposed to do to get on the trump team which is criticize trump. he wrote this op-ed titled "when you can't stand your candidate." it's an excerpt from a do not allow the republican convention to be a coronation where trump and trumpism are unchallenged. the party needs to be reminded there are deep divisions and trump needs to be reminded how many oppose and fear his nomination there was an op-ed by the council on hemispheric affairs in 2017 that talked about considering elliot abrams would be a rude shock to latin america. give us background on why latin america might be fearful and disturbed by the idea of elliot abrams >> a couple of things here abrams is one of our country's

premier regime change architects it's something he spent his life thinking about he knows the state department, the cia, the department of defense. he's applied them in latin america and globally what's fascinating is he was nearly deputy secretary of state under rex tillerson and donald trump nixed him at the last moment that hasn't stopped elliot i have seen him over the last two years. he's waging a quiet campaign to say it didn't bother him he wanted to be of service to his country, to the government he has been very engaged in asking many of those that were on the never trump list to give the president some running room. he's earned his place back and that was noticed i think the big issue is he's the guy if you want to have regime change in venezuela which is where the trump administration is going, he's a serious pick

it would be dangerous to underestimate abrams. >> his history suggests that's true mariana, as somebody who is from venezuela, your family is from there and you understand the way the people in venezuela feel about what's going on. explain the reaction that you had to the election in which you had juan guido declaring himself president even after he reportedly didn't win the presidency this is cut seven from my producers declaring himself president. take a look. oh, okay we don't have it yet essentially give us your take as somebody who is -- wait. we might have it now go ahead >> so first of all, let me jump in regarding elliot abrams i got off the phone with one of the members of the opposition who was at the united nations with abrams yesterday. i said what do you make of his appointment. he told me today someone who

belongs to the same party said the united states has decimated a special envoy to deal with the situation because it's escalated to this point. that's the opinion of the opposition regarding juan guido many say he didn't declare himself president but that because maduro was elected in fraudulent elections last year according to observers, because there was the power void, there are two articles in the constitution which states if there is a power void the head of congress down there will be the, quote, interim president and has to call for free and fair

elections. that's essentially what is happening down there regarding the appointment of guaido. joy? >> i want to go to jennifer on this the challenge is our election is still the subject of an investigation as to whether it was influenced by a foreign power, whether it proceeded along entirely small d democratic grounds to be blunt when our officials like secretary pompeo speak that's a factor in the way the world hears it let me let you listen to mike pompeo yesterday at an emergency u.n. council meeting talking about venezuela. >> now it is time for every other nation to pick a side. no more delays, no more games. either you stand with the forces of freedom or you are in league with maduro and mayhem this morning we tried to find a way for the council to speak in one voice in support of the

venezuelan people. our russian and chinese colleagues refused to let it move forward it is not a surprise that those who rule without democracy in their own countries are trying to prop up maduro while he's in dire straits. >> while it is odd for the united states -- for this administration to be on the other side of russia on something, that's odd, you also have this declaration about democracy being made by this administration when the other thing that's also happening is there is a "wall street journal" story out there that even before the election, u.s. pledged to back the opposition leader mike pence giving the assurance beforehand give us a sense of how it plays out given where we are as americans, as a country. >> we are in a very tricky position maduro is a bad guy. he's an authoritarian. he's wrecked the country, created mayhem he's created everything from food shortages thomo massive emigration out of the country. he's a bad guy the question is what we and other western democracies can do

about it in this instance we are not really alone canada has recognized the opposition, many of the european countries have recognized the opposition the question is what can we do constructively to help actual democracy take place without it being seen that we are selecting the leadership of the venezuelan people here is the difficulty donald trump has zero credibility in the world now if there are russian troops as we have been led to believe on the ground, do we think donald trump is going to put american troops there do we think he's going to exercise leadership? do we think he's going to stand up to the russians and push forward? we can make a lot of grand speeches and pompeo is great at it the problem is carry-through and whether the administration has the skill, the dexterity and determination to carry this through. i think appointing an emissary is a good thing. one thing that happened already and perhaps this is due to

elliot abrams intervention is the sides agree at least for 30 days not to kick out each other's ambassadors. that's a sign that there is at least something constructive going on one final point, it's so telling that there is no one in the administration who is capable of doing something like this. they have to go outside the administration and, gosh, bring in somebody who criticized them bitterly because there is such a lack of expertise, such a lack of competence in this administration that they have to go fishing around for someone out there. if they have to do that and if it benefits the united states and the venezuelan people that's a good thing it is far from clear that donald trump who is the ultimate decision-maker has the tenacity, the sticktoitiveness to see to it without violence. >> let's go to that just on the credibility part of it the russians, the u.n. ambassador said venezuela doesn't represent a threat to peace and security if anything does it is the

shameless and aggressive action by the united states and their allies ousting the legitimate presidents you have russia on the other side of the u.s. what credibility does the u.s. have or not? >> jennifer got it right zero credibility we need to be asking ourselves what led the white house to wake up one morning and say whether it was mike pence before now, wow, this dictator in the world, this thug in the world that's the one we'll define with a challenge. when there are so many others whether it is in the philippines, hungary or wherever it may be. kim jong-un in vietnam this is all, you know, makes one wonder why this guy? this was a watering hole in d.c. i asked cabinet officials, friends of trump they said, look. it's florida politics. cuban-americans don't like what's going on there. cuba and bolivia are the only ones who supported maduro. so we need to be careful of being seduced into the notion

that donald trump actually cares about that issue >> we are out of time. you wrote an op-ed we'll link to about trying to -- in the chaos fighting for your dad's life there. give us the last word. if this is just florida politics what does it mean for the people of venezuela >> bolten said it. this is also a country in our hemisphe hemisphere when you talk about a country that has more than 3 million people that have fled in a humanitarian crisis that the united nations compares to syria there is 1.1 million venezuelans in colombia, 700,000 in peru whatever happens here will inevitably affect the stability of our region. from a very personal standpoint, let me tell you having family down there, my mom is down there. if i don't send her a box with supplies and food, everything from toothpaste to flour and

sugar, it is very hard for her to acquire those things down there because supermarket shelves for the most part are empty. you have diseases like malaria and tuberculosis that have resurfaced in the past years in venezuela. inflation over 1 million percent. everyday people are suffering, looking for a change >> thank you so much for that perspective. steve clemons, thank you very much jennifer will stay with me the crisis isn't at the border it's further south coming up, the 2020 field is getting more crowded by the day. we'll discuss how it's pushing progressive ideas into the spotlight. the only thing i remember is losing control, and i hit the pier face first.

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today in america the top 1/10 of 1% has amassed about as much wealth as 90% of america. you're going to have to pay if you have more than $50 million in assets. this is the ultra rich you have to pay 2% a year of that amount over $50 million here's the deal about the money though i want to underline this part. it's to use the money to build opportunity for the rest of america. >> as the list of democratic

potential and current presidential candidates grows, presidenti policies like the wealth tax are taking center stage. is this a sign of things to come in 2020? joining me tiffany cross, jamal simmons, host of hill tv and jason johnson, resident skeptic. back with me he's our skeptical face. we'll go to tiffany first, my optimistic friend. let's talk about elizabeth warren interesting she's trying to get back in the conversation after being out when it was about the wall and other issues that aren't her core thing. she's come back in with the wealth tax idea. a 2% tax on households with assets above $50 million 3% on households with assets over $1 illion it would raise $2.75 trillion over ten years and draws from 75,000 families out of 326 million families that's .1% of households

can this idea fly in a democratic primary when tax and spend was always the death knell of democratic presidencies >> think it can and i think the senator was wise to roll this out. you saw republicans who could hoodwink white working class voters into thinking they were their champion when elizabeth warren is. what she's saying is this is less than .1% of people in america. they might pay a couple hundred million more, a couple hundred million won't impact their lifestyle at all imagine having that much money and wealth she's successfully cornered republicans and you juxtapose this with wilbur ross saying i don't understand why people don't sell their picassos during a shutdown it's a robust tax plan and something voters should get on board with. >> kate mckin non's wilbur ross

is more popular if y'all didn't see it it's epic. snl. jamal, let's go to you on this you have been involved in a few campaigns. you know the other side comes for democrats on taxes that's where they go there is an idea in republican politics that even if people aren't real rich they want to be when you tax the rich or say you're going to do it, it turns people off because they see themselves one day as the wealthy person people seem to favor the idea now. it's pretty popular. people want to do it at the same time, warren keeps having to explain it and explaining marginal tax rates is difficult. no one understands what it means. will it work her latest attempt to explain it she went after dan snyder, owner of the redskins saying this billionaire nfl owner paid $100 million for a super yacht with

its own i max theater. i'm pretty sure he can pay my new ultra millionaire tax to help the millions of yachtless americans struggling with debt can that argument work >> it can. we saw a billionaire buy a home, a penthouse on central park for $238 million here's the thing people used to have this idea that taxing and spending was bad for democrats. things have changed as wealth is more concentrated at the top now what you are seeing is something really very, very different. people are aspirational. that means if i'm a janitor, i want to have a janitorial service where i don't have to work for somebody else i'm working for myself if i drive a truck, i want to have three, four trucks where i have people work for me. that's not making $10 million a year that's working for myself, being able to call my own shots in my life, having extra money to take care of me and my family that's the aspiration people want not to take care of $10 billion

dollar or billion dollar billionaires who are making $10 million a year >> it's interesting. elizabeth warren's plan goes after assets most people know nobody gets a w-2 for a $10 million salary it's money you're getting in assets, stock, through your private company, that kind of thing. she's going there. marginal tax rates don't tax all $10 million. that's a long story. but enter an actual billionaire into the debate. howard schultz saying he may run. he went after both parties saying they are failing. the reaction from his state is a starbucks cup saying don't do it can a billionaire like him or bloomberg survive in this environment? >> not at all. we have a billionaire or he claims he is we haven't seen his taxes. we have one in the white house now. i don't understand where this sort of wrongheaded analysis has

come from. if schultz comes in it hurts trump more than democrats. what did we have with ross perot, bill clinton and george bush if you have an economy first, business first independent candidate come in it eats away at the conservatives who might want someone to run the country like a business as opposed to getting to the more racial issues we have with trump. schultz coming in is a boon for democrats. they should be buying coffee to get him involved i would. i don't feel safe at starbucks this is an important issue elizabeth warren is the only person making a critique of capu capitalism as opposed to making an unfair system more fair that's what bernie sanders tried to say but he got caught up in his own issues >> who wins in the battle for the progressive, that wing of the party -- sanders or warren quick answer, tiffany. >> warren. >> jamal >> warren.

>> jason >> warren. >> tiffany, jamal -- they made jason go with them they'll be back later. >> it was painful. >> kamala harris is out to make history with the 2020 campaign we'll discuss next first as we go to break here's wilbur ross getting the snl treatment. >> here to comment is secretary of commerce and man of the people, wilbur ross. >> all i meant was that we all have to make sacrifices in times of hardship. for example, instead of going out to dinner you could open a restaurant in your house or for a period of time you could have your horses attend public school. to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal?

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ago congresswoman shirley chisholm became the first black woman to run for president and the first woman to seek the democratic nomination. now kamala harris is seeking to channel the historic bid for office while trying to make history of her own as the first black woman president and the first asian-american president joining me now, zurlina maxwell, nira tanden. let's talk about the nuances first. the announcement in oakland. politico's headline was harris picks hotbed of anti-trump movement to channel her campaign launch a quote from oakland's history of black and women's activism will form her backdrop in the trump era people are looking for models of opposition and symbols of opposition to the

president and his politics and oakland has a history of that. what's the significance of rooting herself in oakland. >> it's also where she was born. >> yes. >> it has her biography and also substance. i think it is a petri dish for substance. it is a really big statement, she was campaigning an announcement in oakland, her sister, maya harris, the chair of campaign. there is a long history of activism around race and gender and all kinds of civil rights issues in that space >> i am wondering when nikki haley talks about a presidential candidate, the media gets so excited because of her india

background i am going to send this picture of kamala harris, her dad is jake c jamaican and her mom is indian native the story of her mom is such an amazing story as well. kamala has been talking about her roots as a daughter of an immigrant indian and in her senate run this is not new for her. she has strong connections to the indian american community. the story of her mom who was an indian immigrant who came here and became a single mom, raise two incredible daughters, taught them that they can be anything it is incredibly inspiring also, it is one of the real passions for her because she's been such a strong champion on

immigration reform and protecting immigrants during the onslaught of attacks of this administration i think it is both her biography and her connection to the community and incredibly pressing issues for her. >> i know the jamaican background for african-american you start to hear some of these rumblings about her blackness. like obama, she has a story that starts outside of the united states and whether or not if that separates her that narrative and the narrative of her being a prosecutor quite bluntly are two things you start to hear bubbling up as a challenge for her. are they legitimate challenges, what do you think? >> i think her criminal justice background is something she can lean into as oppose to away from she should confront all the

fullness of her record, the strength and the weaknesses as far as her being black, she went to -- the idea that your blackness can be tested or maybe i am talking too white according to some people that test is an unfair test. >> it is obama all over again. >> she can be the fullness of who she is she's part south asian and part jamaican and she went to howard. maya harris is the chair of the campaign she does not get talked about a lot but having to work with her closely in 2016 because she was an adviser for hillary clinton her background sets kamala up in a perfect way. she edited parts of the new jim

crow which everybody sites the textbook of how to reform the criminal justice system. having somebody like that on kamala's side is interesting and in terms of the policy plans she can put forward. >> let me play a little bit of senator harris on our own rachel maddow addressing these issues directly on wednesday. >> but, i also know that you have faced and you have buffetted by tough controversies when you were a d.a. in san francisco, there was a lab tech that systemically messed with evidence, how did it happen under your leadership without you knowing about it >> so the crime lab was run by the san francisco police department, not by my office >> the prosecutor's of my office did not know about it. the results and the consequence that cases that prosecutors had worked on were dismissed

rightfully and it is my responsibility to say those cases have been dismissed because there is abuse in the system >> not that you are advising any particular campaign. how ought senator harris address these issues with a progressive left that's skeptical of the powers of police and prosecutors. >> so, i think the facts are one that she needs to lead into. i thought what's great of the rachel maddow interview was that she's not defensive at all and she was very clear when people see the fullness of her record i know as attorney general, i actually work with kamala harris as she was trying to move the criminal justice system from the kind of punitive and just really system that was discriminatory towards african-american and people of color turns one where you can actually have real justice. that's an important message. she took a number of steps to

ensure people do not end up the criminal justice system. that's a fullness of her record and she should be honest about it thank you very much, we'll come back to you in the next hour, more "am joy" after the break.

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this is a master stroke. this is a standoff that has been extended for three weeks the government will shutdown again, but the president ignored

what nancy said today because it is garbage >> whoa, what she says today is garba garbage? >> you are talking about the woman that's the queen of the hill, partner. >> in her own mind >> on this broadcast, she's a winner >> when lou dobb is the voice of reason >> let's not forget it was people like anne coulter who caused trump to flip the script to put the u.s. in the longest shutdown in history. right wing media, well, their reaction is mixed. you heard one take calling, trump's new quote. >> crazy that i expect a president to keep the promise he made everyday for 18 months. >> how concerned should we be,

zeb? >> i am an animated supporter of the president. this president says it is going to be conditional border security building that wall and he just reversed himself it was a victory for nancy pelosi and will be deceived on every television monitors and the screen and the country >> if trump's favorite personnel push the shutdown, what does it say not only of donald trump's pour but t power that trump appears to listen to the next joining me now maxwell and e.j. dion and washington post economist. we are stacked with washington post personality i want to play janine perot.

the most dressed up fan because she's always dressed as if she's going to go to the ball. here he sshe is saying this is n amazing end of the shutdown. >> he did not cave he made a tactical decision. a strategy decision to pick the ground to fight on he chose to stop the fight today to fight another day and that day is february 14th, closing the government towards at him. opening it whether it is a popular move is irrelevant in his mind remember this war is not over. it is nothing but a hollow victory for the democrats. >> okay, it sounds like a mow

vacati motivation motivational speech. do the people in the media believe that >> i think sean hannity believes it if you watch what 35-day shutdown and he gotten exactly what he gotten on day one. his approval rating is down 30%. if you are going to look at that and say it is a mystery, it is called misbehavior we are starting to see the downside the republicans party thought this between fox news and them is win-win, free marketing and free branding. now we see the downside when you are following this we talked about how they are marching into a dead end and done it. what are they going to do? >> you are in talk radio, that feels incredibly powerful because you are talking to the public i am sure people in this field

in fox news and our media world feels incredibly powerful that they gotten a guy in the white house but now i think they're fie finding out that running the country from their script is actually a lot more difficult than turns out to be here is sean hannity also tried to insist to talk to trump and buck him up. here is sean hannity >> anyone out there thinking president trump cave today, you do not know. he right now holds the cards and secure the border one way or another. >> it is a bit sad trying to buck him up. they must think if he fails, they fail, too >> it turns out you should not listen to sean hannity when it comes to governing the country it unveils the fact that donald trump has been a con artist as this entire time he sold himself as a great negotiator going up against pelosi understanding how the government works and you have people in the

white house who don't understand it, it exposed a lie when you listen to sean hannity and anne coulter, they have a different goal than you should have if you are in government trying to do things for the american people. this is a moment when those two things did not drive they have two different goals and donald trump needs to stop listening to anne coulter and i don't know who he's going to listen to because there is nobody in the white house that's smart and effective in terms of governing but better than coulter. >> e.j., in the past, the republican party has be guiled by an idea logical riglogical r. we want to government the

country in a specific way. it is interesting now they turn over the party to what was just described which was more of a communication impose there is not a government ethos behind it. donald trump is a media craze. he was not a successful businessman. to to tony schwartz created that in a book and "the apprentice" created to make it looks real. is that a bridge too far in your view >> i love the way you said master stroke at the beginning o f the segment. that's going to be for a long time i think what you are seeing here is the complete exhaustion of the ideological right.

trump's biggest accomplishment is the biggest corporate tax cut which does nothing for the working class voters who supported him. what happens is trump would give a lot of rhetoric to this angry and many cases of his native base and he'll give the policy to the right they thought they can live with that just fine well, that rhetoric blew up in all of their faces including trump's. when it came time to act on this wall which is figurely a symbol, it could not work. i think we should really focus on how quickly media narratives can shift. last weekend people were saying democrats have to compromise and pelosi can't keep it together. a week later, she's a hero why? she stood up to an empty piece of rhetoric and said we can't allow trump to hold the country hostage. that kept the democratic party together or across the board and

now it is republicans who are split. they got a real problem going forward. >> and you know i think that's true does that jonathan speak to the weakness of this president essentially because he's a media figure there is not a government impulse and there is a theory that his weakness stems from the fact that he can't persuade republicans to do anything they don't want already to do they want to cut rich people's taxes and corporate taxes and already want to stack the supreme court with people in the far right. he can succeed doing what they want to do he's an immediate figure playing this role and trying to pretend it is a governing role is it more than that the media is trying to treat him like he's a typical president with a government impulse. it is clear that this is another extension of a television show >> exactly just came to me, this is sort of a couch potato caucus. if donald trump were not president of the united states, we could envision him sitting at

home on a sofa, watching television and shouting at the tv and screaming at the tv >> is that what he's doing now >> exactly, that's my point. instead of just being average joe citizen sitting at home. he's president of the united states and taking it out instead of yelling at the tv he's going on twitter and affecting policy and just now he held 800,000 workers hostage because people on fox television were criticizing him this is absolutely ridiculous. you made a very good observation there, joy he's not doing anything that republicans did not want to already do he can't get them to do anything else because he does not believe in anything. they're able to get him to do those tax cuts and do those judges because they poured those ideas into the empty vesselvess. when we get to february 15th, i don't know what's going to happen

i love the fact that you pointed out of what this national emergency thing how it would actually work. i think we are getting to the point where the president is running up against a dark reality. one you pointed out of republicans and two, nancy pelosi is not having any of it three, i think the american people because he held federal workers hostage for 35 days, they see the extent to which he'll do anything to get a personal win instead of a win for the american people and putting the american people interests first instead of his >> aaron, you know the thing about it is he's very famous for wanting to slash the government. he has an idealogical desire what's kind of fascinating is the right wing media, their ideas are popular on fox news. now that they got a guy with

five working digits to sign their tv ideas into law, the 35-day shutdown was an idea logical exercise for the media >> right >> the bottom nearly dropped out of the economy the consequences of these tv policies are real. the democratic party is not going to allow them to govern off of tv. i wonder if you think now in the murdoch's world, they are getting nervous of the fact that stuff they wrote in scripts are being tried in real life >> that's a good question. we never know what's reality or real tv for them do they want a government shutdown or laguardia come to a standstill >> right we want the government shutdown, we want a wall which is also made up. let's not forget the wall is a made-up thing that roger stone made up as a device to get

donald trump remember to be mean to immigrants. this fake thing is not real. it is a thing he made up they're now implementing, trying to force it into policy, is there any rethink as somebody watches the media, if we write something into a script, this guy may try it >> there is no rethink >> they are in this 100% and completely radical agenda and some of them see this is a victory and some can see it is a failure. they're going to go full steam ahead, they're going to keep marching the republican party further and further to the radical fringes and republican party now is going to start deciding and have a difficult decision i mean we saw a front page at the new york times today is trump going to be primary or people are going to come forward. a couple of months ago, we thought it is unthinkable. this is such a spectacular failure and spectacular fox news failure of the republican party,

i don't think they have the guts they'll have to make decisions donald trump is the president of the fox news audience and anne coulter's audience as a practical manner, a party can't be that. you can't be a party for the people who listen. there are other people and there are more of them >> yes, a lot more and elections -- usually the more the people win. >> as long as bill shine is in the white house, this is going to continue. if 26% of eligible voters are the only voters that voted for donald trump in 2016 which is a fact we have to think of the 74% of americans who are not just opposed to this president, don't just disapprove of this president but are doing active things to oppose the president like running for office themselves or supporting candidates that are more progressive or fund raising or organizing all of these things are

happening. oh, i don't like the president, i am going to do something to oppose the president and this democrat that's something republicans at large have to be worried about >> essentially the media party >> e.j., you are come by wback e.j. and jonathan will be right back up next of this new viral video and the teen that cracks this response, that's next. i want that too. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. what's next? reeling in a nice one. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding.

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nathan phillips and a group of all white boys of kentucky. both phillips and sanman has had a chance to tell their stories

something however was not so typical. sanman formulated his response the firm is run by scott jennings, a long time republican operative who worked at the bush's white house and advises senate majority mitch mcconnell. back with me e.j what did you make of the pile on of nathan phillips by summon right wing media including the new york post and others going after his war service during vietnam or even some teenage arrests essentially attacking him when he was a teenager >> well, first and for most, thank you for having me on the show and in this light talking about

things that's happening within the indian country the second thing i want to commend nathan phillips for the tremendous act for him to step in that moment it is inexcusable how the mass media is trying to switch the flip here. we see it happen time after time where black and white folks get attacked for something at the end of the day after a number of weeks, they become view as though they were the aggressor. he was not the aggressor in this situation. nathan phillips, i have worked with him for many years against the pipelines, he's one of the most humblest people i have met in my 4r50life he's a tremendous asset to the community. i have the upmost respect. the behavior that he saw is inexcusable. we saw longer video and bigger

picture but the behavior that we saw that the kids enacted is utterly inexcusable and shows a deeply rooted sense of superiority imprivilegeed. it is absurd but it is not surprising to see right wing media to make it seen like nathan phillips is the aggressor of this chaperones and the lackf control to control their youth and what they displayed that day. >> jonathan, you cover in the black lives matter cases where similar things happen where the victims are dead and could not speak and even sometimes in mainstream media are the bad act

or bad behavior or something obvious to make the dead kid in those cases that they seem toede aggressive and at fault. reverse the situation to make nathan phillips sound like he's an aggressor that he went after the young man. there was a guy called kyle smith in the national review who made this point. should these kids lives be ruined because some of them responded to obnoxious provocation. if we can find a video of not sanman but the kids who are jumping and whooing, that's the bigger picture we are missing. you said the assessment only applies to white kids and that it did not apply to kids like jordan davis or kids like black

kids, can you expand on that >> in the quote of his piece befo before, he says up until 10 minutes ago, we let teenagers be teenagers and do stupid stuff. that jumped out at me. jordan davis he was 17 he would still be alive if he had not been murdered because his music was too loud or tamir rice who was 12 who you would nwould not have been shot for playing with a toy gun in a park. and in a texas pool party and mishandled by the police the idea that teenagers do stupid stuff, it is ridiculous it only applies to white kids. we have to remember here the

right is trying to say ah-ha, the media got it wrong and everyone gotten it wrong the person on the right of what they call the form video which came from the black hebrew light anyway i sat and watched it twice you saw what went down and what happened to mr. goldtooth's point. what i came away was where was the chaperones they are crazy and they yell crazy home phob crazy, homophobic things at me if you see five crazy people yell horrible things at you, do you let your children get close to those people and engage them or as chaperones and parents, do

you remove them and why not take them up to the top of the steps of the lincoln memorial where the view of the malil is fantastic. mr. phillips coming in separating the two sides even israel saying oh, here comes dad and here comes coming in between us >> you believe your own eyes when you see these situations and what's happening >> we'll show that video a little bit as i ask you e.j. the catholic diocese that covered this apologize d to the teenager, saying we should not allow yourself to be bullied or making statements fully. i apologize to sanman's family this is a quiet school and expensive, i am sure his parents had something to say

this is an affluent place where san sanman can afford higher p.r. firm in this particular case, i don't know, what do you make of the fact that this has became an issue, to make a political statements with their presence but who are now saying they're just kids. >> well, actually i think when you look around the media, there are a lot of very difficult reaction from catholics to all of this. there are a lot of catholics who were particularly disturbed by the disrespect show to the native american. that's an important piece of this people who watch the whole video, people like jonathan or josh marshal at talking point memo who wrote a great piece on this it is fair to say that some of

those kids may have been thrown, may have looked confused and yeah, we all have to be careful of little snippets of videos that go out and draw much conclusion there is something wrong with that and i think we also have to think of the symbolism of the maga hat now we have to think hard on whether to allow itself to be taken over by the trump movement. there are pro-immigrant and anti-abortion people taking kids away from their parents at the border is not pro-life and it is not pro-family i think there should be another debate on the other side and this should not be confined to a tax on the left. >> i am going to give mr. goldtooth the last word on this.

you sooee the attack and when i comes for brett kavanaugh, we excuse of things he did as a teenager what does it say to you? as we head into the super bowl, we have people of your community used as mascots and people whose names who are appropriated for the names of teams just general disbelief and people not believing elder phillips and even with video i am going to let you have the last word on that. >> i appreciate that >> one thing just to be aware of is the response from the native community and allies on this issue did not come out of a vacuum we really have to be mindful of how white supremacists operate by erasinining arrative i think you are pretty spot on

with that. it is spot onto the hypocrisy that we are seeing from the right on this issue whether you have trump making a tweet about this issue but he's not saying anything about steve king or the racist comments that he exhibited and said come on now, let's talk to see it for what it is and not spin the story and benefits them. the horrible part is this instance kind of over shadow was happening that day, the indigenous march and also in canada, that's completely unknown to the mainstream media we have to talk about these things and the greater struggles that they are going through at this moment. >> in dead, you made a great point. we are going to strive to do that on the show yes, it is sad that this is the

only narrative that came out because there is a lot more. thank you, sir, e.j. and jonathan and dallas goldtooth. thank you all very much. >> the newly indicted roger stone that can't stop talking. his latest tv moment is coming up

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when he signed the bill on friday night reopening the federal government and ending the 35-day suffering, he and his party inflicted on hundreds of thousands of employees forced to work without pay donald trump assumed that nancy pelosi will turn back on the c-span camera and let him give his televised speech on tuesday. well, about that >> it is not planned now what i said to the president is that when the government is opened, we'll discuss an agreeable date and i will look forward to doing that and welcoming the president to the house of representatives >> oh, okay. stay tuned when did soup become this?

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i never discussed these matter matters with president it is called politics and they have not criminalize me. >> i did not disseminate any e-mails. th that's a mischaracterization

of e-mails. >> roger stone says he did nothing wrong to publicize wikileaks of stolen dnc of clinton's campaign stolen e-mails. >> joining me now jamal simmons. i want to play you one more piece of roger stone on abc with george stephanopoulos which he talked about something that's really important to one prominent television watcher, namely donald trump. here he is >> any chance you will cooperate with special counsel mueller if he asks? >> that's a question i have to determine after my attorneys have some discussions. if there is wrong doing by other people in the campaign that i know about which i know of none but if there is, i would testify honestly i would testify honestly about any other matter including any

communications with the president. it is true that we spoke on the phone. those communications are political in nature and they are benign >> jamal, would it be wrong to read that response as a message through the tv because that's how people communicate with donald trump i may cooperate aka, give me a pardon >> it is not wrong to read it that way what we have seen throughout this entire process, we see the president of the united states trying to intimidate witnesses using twitter and talking on television we see him trying to coordinate with the russians while asking them to do illegal things. now we know some things that are really important like paul manafort i can't get over this. paul manafort meeting with russian assets and exchanging documents and now at the same time the entire -- everybody involved in this does not tell the truth of their relationship with russia and you got this guy, stone, who calls him a

dirty trickster. >> why should we believe anything these people have to say. >> tiffany, having covered a lot of campaign, have you heard of an instance a campaign of operative research of something that's used, information gleam from a hostel foreign power. roger stone directed this weird conspiracy theorist to communicate with wikileaks they communicated that information, e-mail to the trump campaign and the trump campaign based their entire messaging around those e-mails. that's collusion roger stone bragged about being the architect of this information and he bragged about being a dirty trickster. he had his hands in every part of the negative campaigning since the nixon era.

he has a tattoo of nixon on his back he that's not a straight dude these are the weirdos he's surrounding him with who's spoon feeding him policies it is this weirdo pears personification. i am definitely thinking that he's begging for a partner now tiffa >> joy, just remember this real quick. if we think about donald trump as a politician he does not make a lot of sense if we think of him as a failed atlantic city casino, all of this makes a lot of sense. four stars and playboy bunny and manafort and roger stone >> let me go to you jennifer, i want to play marco rubio, i am not sure what his ideology is now. he's been all over the place

he used to be a media favorite here he's talking about roger stone and embodying one of his previous iterations by one that he's appalled. >> i believe anyone who cooperated with them is doing the work of foreign agency to harm us. i can tell you and i mean this in truth and not in the spirit of nastiness, the media was unwitting on this, too they reported on what we know is the product of the work of russian intelligence >> that last part is true. that last part is absolutely true >> he's right. the media did participate eagerly in publishing that stuff. on the first part of what he says where he says anyone uncooperating with wikileaks which we know is hostile with the united states is doing the

work of foreign agents, you think he would believe that if it is found that donald trump did that >> listen, marco rubio is the spineless wonder trying to protect when he's going to show some principles and resolve. it is a fruitless adventure. he did say two things in that, joy, one is that if you are soliciting health from a foreign power that is not only wrong but it is illegal. if you are doing it with knowledge that you are using stolen materials which were those e-mails, that's even worse. i do think it is amusing why didn't he say during the campaign that we should not really cover those e-mails because they were stolen appropriate. i bet the clinton people are banging their heads at this point, yeah, why didn't you say that before because it is a liability that he'll have to live with having helped

elect-donald trump president roger stone has always live in this make believe world where h can be outrageous. this is the first time he's looking at a jail cell no matter what he says or what information he may have, i think he's going to be in a lot of trouble. the one thing he did which is clearly illegal. he lied to congress. why are all these people lying to congress? because they want to conceal a russian relationship you don't lie to congress, you don't lie and conceal evidence as he did. you don't try to intimidate witnesses unless you are trying to cover up something really bad. that bad thing is a relationship with russia that's totally inappropriate. >> comment section, meet robert mueller. >> it is not going to work out jennifer rubin, thank you very much >> tiffany and jamal, stay right ere.

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back by popular demand it is time for find out who won the week jack with me is tiffany and ja

man and jason. tiffany, who won the week? >> everybody was talking about the shutdown i am going to say cortez won the week they were name pressley, a s pressl pressley, rasheeda tlaib and alexandria ocasio-cortez won the week congressman cummings laid out his entire investigative slate this week and i'll tell you the hearings will be lit he's going after everybody he's going after michael flynn, he's going after sebastian go a gorka, he's going after security clearance issues for jared kushner, they have powerful hearings coming up, matt whitaker will be testifying before this committee, he's the acting ag of the doj secretary of commerce wilbur ross will be testifying over this censorship question and so you're going to be able to watch these three young very dynamic women work, w-o-r-k-and

w-e-rrkw-e-r-k. aoc, rashida and ayanna. i will say, that top you're wearing, tiffany, might have also won the week. >> thank you >> that's cute i know i'm not supposed to comment on women's appearances but that top is cute let's move on to jamal who's also wearing a fetching very attractive -- in order to make sure this is all fair. >> we are going off the rails. >> jamal >> yes my pick for the winner of the week is obviously nancy pelosi, speaker of the house, i think that she showed how it's done. what she understands about donald trump is you don't give into trump he comes at you, you come at him harder and she fought him to a place where he had to finally submit and as you showed earlier, she hasn't told him he gets to give his state of the union address. that's the most gangster move of the week thank you for what you gave me and now we can discuss whether

or not i'm going to take care of you. >> your tv show you want to give in my chamber, i'll think it over and let you know. >> close second is kamala harris who i think had a good week in her announcement she did a good job and i love her logo her logo is fantastic. >> as somebody who is semiobsessed with shirley chisholm, it was a deft move and a bipartisan move belong the black sororities of course shirley chill some was a delta and kamala harris is an aka. everybody who doesn't know what those, are look those up you'll need to know them, there will be a quiz at the end of the election jason johnson, i won't comment on your attire because you're usually so cynical i can't focus on your clothes. >> that's true. >> who won the week. >> the winner of the week is the democratic party of south carolina look, they had five presidential contenders come there this week. this will be the largest field south carolina has seen in 30 years. people are spending money, people are spending time

that state has turned into the black woman's primary that means black women consultants and political leaders will matter. steven benjamin, the first black mayor of the city of columbia, south carolina, is the head of conference of mayors, he is a king maker if you are a black person running against lindsey graham or in any way involved in 2020, you won this week. this week puts south carolina on the map. >> can i say quickly to jason's point that jamie harrison, he was the first african-american chair of the south carolina democratic party and he's thinking about challenging lindsey graham we'll write about in the the beat so tune in. >> and he's not the only one. >> we learned in 2008 that south carolina is the candidacy killer it is. it's where candidates -- iowa, new hampshire, important but increasingly it's south carolina that makes or breaks campaigns. those are great answers. now i'll tell you who actually won the week the correct answer is flight ahen da attendants and air traffic controllers who you could argue ended the horrible abominable shutdown

let me play you sara nelson speaking about the impact of the shutdown on aviation workers this week, sflhe is from the flight attendants union. >> we are the last line of defense. and we are going to work today understanding that the layers of security that need to be there, the layers of security that were put in place after 9/11 when the tsa was created are not there. this is about our safety and security and our jobs and our entire country's economic stability. no one will get out of this unscated if we do not stop this shutdown. >> if the flight attendants being afraid to fly when half of the air traffic controllers are on furlough didn't scare enough people, here are the air traffic controllers. here's a representative of them which i think shook everybody this week. take a listen. >> air traffic controllers' main job is to prevent planes from hitting each other they need to be focused on doing that job 100% of the time. they shouldn't be driving for

uber before their shift. they shouldn't be waiting tables they should be getting rested. they're political pawns in a reckless game of chicken and they need to be pulled out of that game. >> let me poll the three of you quickly. who had more of an impact on finally getting mitch mcconnell to be the senate majority leader in the shutdown? was it the air traffic controllers or his caucus? >> definitely the air traffic controllers. i think, you know, a lot of people want to give donald trump credit for ending this shutdown but i'm quite certain that nfl owners will be pretty upset if people couldn't get to the super bowl and these were his billionaire bffs. >> jamal who was more deicive >> flight attendants and air traffic controllers. it wasn't just getting to the super bowl they threatened private planes from being able to take off and land that's straight at the republican base. >> wilbur ross can't get off the ground very quickly, jason?

>> you know i'm a cynic. he didn't care about the air traffic controllers or people suffering, he cared his caucus was about to steam roll him and push through another bill. that's what ended up changing mitch mcconnell's decision, not people suffering. >> cynical to tend jason johnson, jamal simmons and tiffany cross. twitter is going to love that top. coming up at the top of the hour, the latest on a new report that undocumented workers at donald trump's golf course were fired during the shutdown fight. minimums and fees. they seem to be the very foundation of

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to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪

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that's our show, thanks for watching, "a.m. joy" will be up next week. up next, alex witt >> i was paying so much attention to your tsa discussion i never think about flying, i get on planes, it doesn't matter i was so nervous i thought about it, i was envisioning these exhausted people not being paid. they're human beings. >> and the things we take for granted in the modern era is because they do their jobs so seamlessly when you're forced to think about it it makes you afraid. >> for sure. >> welcome back, i missed you yesterday. >> thank you, i'm glad to be here for once i'm taking off and not you. >> don't do it again. it's high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west, welcome to "weekends with alex witt." roger stone speaks if you think you heard it all, think again. he's talking about p