eminem, on our facebook pages. in particular the discussion of addiction may interest people. i'll seeia monday back here at 6:00 p.m. eastern. but right now "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. >> i've the set the table. i've set the stage for doing what i'm going to do. that's president trump. this is "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we've got a lot coming up including donald trump's brazen new comments about his plans for a border wall. a shocking scandal including the governor of the state in a racist photo. and democrat's efforts to obtain donald trump's tax returns. we begin with a showdown over the border. to avoid a shutdown exactly two

weeks from today, president trump is openly undermine negotiations to repeat a repeat. and in an oval office interview with the "new york times" the president criticized house speaker nancy pelosi and said he set the table for declaring a national emergency to begin wall construction. >> i think nancy pelosi is hurting our country very badly by doing what she's doing. and ultimately i think i've stet the table very nicely. i think people understand stuff. >> set the table for emergency declaration? >> i've set the table, i've set the stage for doing what i'm going to do. yeah, i'm going to wait until the 15th. i think it's a waste of time. >> he echoed those comments telling reporters he doesn't think negotiations are going to work and likely to declare a national emergency to build the

wall. >> have you decided whether or not you're going to decide national emergency? >> what's in my mind? certainly thinking about it. i think there's a good chance that we'll have to do that. but at the same time we'll be building -- regardless we're building wall and a lot of wall but i could do it a lot faster the other way. >> the president added we'll see what happens after his state of the union address next tuesday night. trump offered another preview of what comes next. >> on the 15th we have now set the table beautifully because everybody knows what's going on because of the shutdown. people that didn't have any idea, they didn't have a clue as to what was happening, they now know exactly what is happening. >> host of "a.m. joy" and white house reporter for the "associated press" and congressman from florida. you know i've set the table, the stage for what i'm going to do next.

he's telegraphing he's going to use a national emergency. >> as i'm watching -- as i watched donald trump today and what's going on over the lasts couple of weeks. it does seem like he's quite frankly struggle for rev lensy. it's clear the congressional leadership is working with one another to come up with a bill that is donald trump is highly likely to sign. the one thing the shutdown showed is how catastrophic for the economy, for our airline industry, for individuals, for public safety. i highly doubt the leadership in congress, including even mitch mcconnell is going to have another government shutdown. so what donald trump i think is saying is he's not in the room and he wants to be the center of attention and it's upsetting to him these negotiations are going on without him. so he's threatening this national emergency baz he has to be demonstrating to his base

he's doing everything he can to get them this wall mexico's not going to pay for. >> you don't think he's going to do what he'ser threatening to do? >> i think you will see a bill pass that will not have a wall in it. he will sign it and he may declare a national emergency and that will trigger immediate lawsuits. what he will do is abuse the national emergencies act which is supposed to be for real lawsuits and he will have demonstrated for his base he's willing to go all out for his wall. >> you think he's going to shoot the moon on this? because he often does say i'm going to do what nobody else is doing. and whether he has to fight courts over this or not, it protects him from the likes of ann coulter and rush limbaugh that he didn't really try. >> absolutely. the point is to prove for his base he did all he could to make it happen and it has seemed for weeks like the emergency order was the only logical off ramp

that white house has been moving towards. it's been weeks that they've been going to agencies trying to find pots of money. my sources say they're looking for other potential options, maybe some other pot of money. >> is there a pot of money in authorized funding right now? he says he's got money. >> at this point it seems the most realistic option is to declare a national emrjsancy. of course it will be immediately challenged. you heard him basically wijing and suggesting he may make an announcement during the state of the union speech. >> i think he likes fireworks. your sense of trump and what he's up to and then we'll get to whether he should do it or not. do you think he's actually going to declare a national emergency like president dooz when they have to and says i want my wall.

>> this is a big missed opportunity by this white house and the president. the only way to get the border security he promised his base is to make it part of a grand bargain, to include permanent protections for dreamers, permanent protections for the tps population because the white house didn't put that proposal forwrbd, which if they had, would have put pressure on democrats, now they're stuck with the solution, which is to show the base that they're trying to do something and increasingly and regrettably i thik that's what we see more and more of in politics these days. not people trying to advance their solutions but people trying to demonstrate they're fighting for something and when it doesn't happen, you that to make them angry and get them to vote in the next election. this is a big missed opportunity. the president has put himself in a box. i think this is the only option he has left and i don't think it's going to get him anywhere. >> if he doesn't put the wall up

or he does get a portion, which is a waste of money, but if he gets the money, even in exchange for d.a.c.a., the wild people on the right will say amnesty. he's betrayed his people. and won't they grab him for that. any compromise, maybe not path to citizenship immediately, but certainly d.a.c.a. isn't he getting in trouble with his right wing? >> you're right. and we tried to move an immigration slug immigration solution and yes, the far right attacked that viciously and the president is obviously very sensitive to those kientsds of attacks. however he's on the record supporting a path to citizenship to dreamers. what i would do if i was in his position is go to those conservatives and say look, this is the only way we're going to get the type of border security we promised. lelt let's give these young immigrants an opportunity and

call a win but that takes a lot of courage and i don't see that happening any time soon. >> he was also asked about his -- why am i getting this confused. the skpepeaker of the house, na pelosi. >> you had quite the showdown with speaker pelosi. what did you learn about negotiating with her? >> well, i think that she was very ridge ud, which i would expect but i think she's very bad for our country. she knows you need a barrier, she knows we need border security. she wanted to win a political point. i happen to think it's bad politics because basically she wants open borders. she doesn't mind human trafficking. >> well, here we are with pure politics. him against the speaker of the house. she's tougher than he ever thought. she's saying it's an immortality to build part of this wall.

it's almost like unconditional surrender in world war ii. when you say immorality. you said he's going to end up signing whatever deal there is. what looks to you like a deal there is >> what choice does he have? >> the speaker says not an inch of wall. >> it will be not an inch of wall. >> what will be the compromise? >> the political reality is nancy pelosi is not paul ryan. she is actually a strong figure in the tip o'neale school of being speaker. she has control of her caucus. nothing with a wall is going to pass full stop. with all due respect to car bello o, nothing with what the coulter wing calls is never going to pass. there's nothing that offer as palgt of citizenship from anyone not from norway through the united states senate. donald trump can sign what he's

going to get which is an increase in border security that has no wall. but then he has to explain that to same people who won't let him do a dreamer bill. he's going to have to explain to his base who voted primarily on opposition to non-white immigration. that's what drives the republican base right now. >> do you think they'll settle for anything less than those things they do for dogs? they want to hurt them. >> they want them hurt and so that that's where the republican party is. donald trump is afraid of ann coulter. nancy pelosi is not afraid of anybody, least of all, donald trump. he zim no choice and then he's go having to to go back and say but i declare a national emergency. >> let me go this way. you have a thought because i think -- i'll put my cards on the tanl. table. i think he's bent for trouble.

i think he's going to shoot the moon mp it's classic bring down the temple. donald trump. >> to joy's point and i still think of politics as the art of the possible and last year in the senate, a pathway to citizenship for dreamers got 56 votes without any support from the white house at all. if this white house were to invest in an effort to get republicans on board, they could get this done. and that's why i think this is the biggest missed opportunity for this administration. they could have got immigration reform done if any republican president could have gotten it done, it was donald trump and it looks like groirltsing to go another two years without an immigration solution in this country and that is a true tragedy. >> hard right ann coulter continued her criticism in an interview with yeah hew.

coulter once again blasted the president for failing to deliver on his promises. >> we put this lunetic in the white house for one reason. >> you put this lunatic in the white house. >> right. but i don't know why it seem soez crazy that the president should keep his campaign promises. wow, that crazy guy. he he's lazy and incompetent. >> this is a country that's a real country. we started in 1776. we've had rocky roads, not always been great. we are getting better until now. he's not negotiating with nanlsy pelosi. he's negotiating with that person. >> and we know he's so sensitive to what people like ann coulter and rush limbaugh think. however, those aren't the people who necessarily represent trump's voter base. we saw how he was able to shift away from the c.r. he was going

to sign which perpetuated the shutdown. the president is in such a tight box. he's has rr not worked at all to expand his base, despite what we might hear from the state of the union. the ones who chanted "build that wall" at every one of his rallies and he doesn't want to disappoint them. >> i'm getting your drift. but i want to know more here. if you were runnering for ting news" or whatever and you had to exblain a phenomenon that can tell the president what to do and her name is ann coulter. >> he is beholden to her because he understands what motivates his voters is nativism and she represents them. and donald trump might want to be an autocrat but he's not capable of getting anything through congress that republicans don't already want. tax cuts, right wing judges,

check. but he has not got the power to defy the ann coulters of the world, partly because mitch mcconnell doesn't care if there's ever a wall and not willing to spend one iota of political capital to help him get this. without the willingness of his party to get this, donald trump on his own has no power to do it. he's a weak president too, be honest but when cornered could still deploy the powers of the office. he could still attempt to do this national emergency. but he dood it because he's desperate and i think he's scared. >> i think he thought he was leading this parade and he's just a drum major. he could be standing out front but he ain't leading this one. he's gale winen who thought he could tell the rabl what to do and they said no, we're the rabbal, you're taking our orders. thank you so much.

coming up next. late today the governor of virginia confirmed he's one of the people in that shocking photo showing a man in black face next to another man in a ku klux klan robe. it's going to be ea big story this weekend. plus roger stone was back in court. the federal judge is considering a gag order saying it's a criminal case, not a book tour. what's next for president trump's dirty trixter and he said he would release his tax returns after a routine audit was complete. now that democrats have control of the house, can they get their hands on those returns? their hands on those returns vo: epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. vo: whatever your type, ask your doctor if epclusa is your kind of cure. woman 2: i had the common type. man 2: mine was rare. vo: epclusa has a 98% overall cure rate.

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and the army taught me a lot about commitment. which i apply to my life and my work. at comcast we're commited to delivering the best experience possible, by being on time everytime. and if we are ever late, we'll give you a automatic twenty dollar credit. my name is antonio and i'm a technician at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. welcome back to "hardball." following breaking news out of virginia. nbc news obtained a disturbing

photo from ralph northam. he confirmed it's him in the photo and apologizes for what is clearly racist and offencive. quote this is not in keeping with who i am today and the values i fought for in military and public service. i want to understand how this shakes virginia's faith in that commitment. this a week after the republican secretary of state resigned after photos emerged of him pose as a hurricane katrina victim made up in black face 13 years ago. the city that is 60% african-american. i'm joined by author of "what truth sounds like." and our unfinished conversation

about race in america. and former senior advisor to hillary clinton. thank you so much, professor dyson. the history of black face and its offensiveness and here wie go again. your thoughts. >> absolutely and it's bipartisan, obviously. and the astonishing thing is this is 1984, not even 74. this is 1984 and it's a remarkable display of the fact that racial insensitivity is not the particular province of any particular party though we know disproportionately within conservative circles this kind of thing passes muster and even among conservative democrats or blue dog democrats or those in the south that think this is a joke or ha-ha and play it for laughs understand later this is something destructive and provocative and i'm glad he apologized. i'm glad he acknowledged it's

offensive acknowledged it has to go through a process where people can greave and be astauninged and say oh, god not again. megyn kelly wonders why it's a problem and now the governor of virginia. this has to be addressed and so deeply rooted in our culture. for those who say aren't we passed this? mostly racism is gone. the obstacles that prevent others from flourishing, you people keep harping on this. this is an index of persistence of racism in our country. >> i was watching some old youtube today of al -- first talking movie, the jazz singer, in black face and i thinking watching on youtube what did the african-americans in the crew or watching in the theater or back in the theater of those days, what were they thinking as this guy playing a black face character in the 20s and 30s and

'40s and i watch alfred hitchcock movie and no black people in it. there's nobody in the street of new york with the picture of fifth avenue and no african-americans. project back. what were people thinking, african-americans? >> black people had to pretend in public they could be amenable to such displays of offencive racism. it's just like when joe lewis was in the ring boxing and beating a white figure. when they're in front of white people, how sad. but when they went home they hurrayed. black people have always had to accommodate racial passions against us and keep navigating our way through it. we have to suck it up, bite our tongues. we talked about it in our sororities and fraternities and churches. but we stood up and said this does not mark who we are and at

the same time the dominate culture is ubseszed with black skin but not black skin or talent. wants to be black in terms of look but not reality. that's part of the trauma we see in black face and that's why its persistence is especially hurt fool us who think we got to get past this? what is the obsession of what america with blacking their faces but not circumstances or conditions? >> we know what you're going to say today and this afternoon you called for this governor to quit, to resign over this. >> absolutely. even if he is acknowledging what he did was wrong and this happened in 1984. you cannot undo this. he's never going to be forgiven by the majority of his voters. >> that's not a million years agou, by the way. >> secondly -- campaign operative. i don't understand how this just now came out. why didn't we see this in the

primary or the general election? who was doing the opposition research? >> they weren't doing a good job. >> i don't want to make comic of this. why didn't this stuff get out? it's usually an opposition organization that gets it out. castro was just on the show tonight. he's also called for him to leave. to quit. >> i think you're seeing more and more calls from democrats across the party calling on mr. northam to step down and lieuten n lieutenant governor is rising star, african-american. it's not like there's not a long lineage of tal tonight replace him too. >> not just as a commentator. are you speaking as a democrat who thinks the democrats have to keep their laundry clean too. >> yeah, no, absolutely. democrats have to keep their laundry clean too. if we're going to criticize

republicans for these insensitive racial gestures, then we need also call our own in our party and again governor northam is going to have a difficult time and he's a one-term governor. in virginia you don't run for reelection. >> we have two african-americ a candidates that are serious contenders. i mean kamala harris, even donald trump says the best roll out he's seen this year and cory booker, the senator from new jersey who's looked like a winner platically. this is a real development. one presidency after barack obama broke the color bar. >> and there was some consultant whose said you should distance yourself from that. now we've got two prominent african-americans running in the primary, which is wonderful to see. interesting to see how the two

of them adjust their message to compete with certain sectors within the african-american community. >> has there been a change on this question of a black president, to be blunt, to put it that way, since l.a.? >> well, there's no doubt barack obama broke the barrier. we just celebrated with the 100th anniversary of jacky yesterday. so barack obama is jacky robinson. he's not the first person capable of being president, he's the first person who got a chance to prove he could do it. jesse jackson wasn't the only one who could be the first ball player but he had the right temperament. grace jones said i may not be perfect but i'm perfect for you. now we see the rising competition of two extraordinary stars. these are intergalactic stars. cory booker with his storied history and kamala harris with her superstar status.

her rollout in oakland and doing great job on a competing network with, having a town hall and being able to with stand the critique around her record. so the reality is both of these figures will show you can have more than one black person and welcome to the world of black politics. we vemany white politicians, may the best man or woman win. and senator harris will harris. people of color are going to vote for these candidates. i don't think it's just a south carolina primary. i don't think year looking at whole nurks at least at the democratic party and we'll change here. senator cory booker announcing his run. >> people in america are losing faith that this nation will work for them.

they're beginning to believe that too many folks are going to get left out or behind. we need believe the forces that there tearing us apart are stronger than the forces that bond us together as a people, as country. i'm running for president because i want to address these issues. >> michael, it's fascinating the way -- you can do your roll out the way you want to do it. so going to howard, oakland, sending a message. on martin luther king day. as senator kamala harris did and he doing it in an urban setting. emphasizing the roots and their part in the democratic party's history, by the way. >> absolute lay right. when i said barack obama was jacky robinson. that made room for who? roy camp nellau, it made room for eventually willy mays. they're a different kind of candidate because of his trail

blazing efforts. they go to an urban center or -- and these are people embracing elements of their own blackness, not afraid of it, not seeing it it as some kind offence t -- ansillary or particular. it's part of who they are but they range across a wide horizon of potential possibility and i think if the american populous and the american voter becomes more mature and sees that even a black candidate has interests that are rooted in but not restricted to their own race t becomes appealing and powerful in this day and age and when we have this man who sits in the white house today who is frprou to be unmolested by enlightenment. two black people come to the foris a breath of fresh air. >> i'm so glad you're on tonight.

and professor at georgetown official and former senior official of the hillary clinton campaign. what a judge had to say to him about turning a criminal proceeding into a public relations campaign. a public relations campaign

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predawn fbi raid on charges of obstruction, witness tampering and lying to the congress. prosecutors told a federal judge they're eyeing an october trial for him, though no date has yet been scheduled. the judge warned both sides that she may impose a gag order, saying this is a criminal proceeding and not a public relations campaign. it was one week ago mueller charged roger stone about lying to congress about conversations he had with wikileaks. they charge after wikileaks dumped documents stolen by the russians, quote a senior trump campaign official was directed to call stone about adizzal releases and what other damaging information on the clinton campaign. take a listen. >> did you ever talk to him about wikileaks because that

seems to be -- >> no. >> you didn't have a conversation? >> no, i didn't. >> did you tell other peep toop get in touch where with him? >> no, i didn't. >> senator, i've got to start with you. the gag order. can you shut up roger stone. he seems to be an exhibitionist. the number of costumes and he struts around in front of the cameras like he enjoy as perp walk. >> well, the judge has an obligation, as all judge do to prevent this into turning into a circus. the manafort and gates trial. so there's no reason that she couldn't do it again here. but remember what's most revealing about this proceeding is the delay and the reason for the delay, which is that the special counsel has discovered

complex and voluminous material in that raid of the stone apartment in florida. and that fact and the delay and other facts indicate that bob mueller is nowhere near completing this investigation. and a gag or not, roger stone is in really deep trouble. >> well, it's not the first time that president has denied a claim that he turned aught to be true. president trump originally denied and acknowledged he directed michael cohen to pay stormy daniels to keep quiet about an aologed affair and candidate trump repeatedly denied having business ties with russia. >> i mean i have nothing to do with russia. i don't have any jobs in russia. i'm all over the world but we're not involved in russia. >> i have no relationship with russia whatsoever. >> i have no loans from russia. i have nothing to do with russia, foebs, okay.

i have nothing to do with russia. no investments in russia. none whatsoever. i have no dealings with russia. i have no deals in russia. i have no deals that could happen in russia because we've stayed away. >> that did not turn out to be true. in an interview with the "new york times" he insisted he wasn't lying to the public because he said it wasn't business. let's listen. >> sir, can you clarify the trump tower moscow proposal, right? there was this discussion and we've learned since the campaign that this went on longer through the campaign -- >> let me tell you about trump tower. this was a very unimportant deal. okay. >> you told people you didn't have any business there -- >> that wasn't business. peter, that wasn't business. that was a -- that was -- i had no money invested. >> you know, cynthia, thomas

jefferson once said the whole art of politics is the art of telling the truth. is this artful dodging or lying? >> lying. he's been lying about lot of things and this is central to his lies. and if you look at all the people who have been indicted, usually the common denominator is its to the do with russia and this is no exception. >> senator, wlet me get back to where year headed. what do you sense about the timing? you said a moment ago this investigations is not going to end soon. tell me what you think. >> i think that there are a number off strong indications this investigation is going to go on for quite while. not only what happened in court in these last few days with the delay of roger stone's trial but the extension of the grand jury. the ongoing proceeding in the southern district of new york, which has a certain independent

life of its own but related to what mueller's doing and all of it emphasized the emportance of mueller being permitted to finish his investigation too, do a report. in fact i've just submitted legislation that would require a report and that it be made public and provided to congress at the same time proirlts vided to the attorney general so the american people need and deserve that report and they should have it. so i think it will go on for months and i think that there will be other indictments, very serious ones of people close to the president. >> you know it seems to me what's going to hold this up is what we found out the other day. the amount of information and tapes and everything else they've just collected in fort lauderdale from roger stone's sort of bin, his hole, his -- i know you call it a treasure trove, a sewer but you got lot of stuff down twl.

>> if you look carefully at the motion, it looks to me like much of that stuff mueller already had. but its to the go through a review to make sure there's nothing -- all of the evidences to the go through review to make sure there's no attorney-client privilege. but there are a cuouple really big hints in not only the indictment but the discovery filing that mueller is about to go forward on something larger. the first is in the indictment, that famous paragraph 12 that has somebody -- one big shot directing another big shot to call -- to direct him to check in with wikileaks. and what we know is those big shots don't have anything to do with roger stone's indictment. so that is a big indication there's more coming. additionally when you look at the discovery motion, there's all this information about financial records.

financial records have nothing to do with the stone case. there has to be a reason why that's happening and that more is coming in the months to come. >> thank you so much. senator from connecticut and cynthia axley. thank you. i get a feeling that nixon liked watergate in the sickest possible way and roger is lighting up like a lighting bug he likes it so much. remember when donald trump said he would release his tax returns as soon as a odd lt was complete. what are our chance of seeing the returns before trump leaves office? apparently pretty good. trump l office apparently pretty good

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my tax returns are very simple. they're under a minor audit, routine audit as they have been for many years.

every year i get audited. at the appropriate time i will release them. i will absolutely give my returns but i've been audited for two or three years so i can't finish until the audit is finished obviously. >> you don't think the american public is concerned about this? >> i won. >> welcome back to "hard ball." even though every president going back to jimmy carder released the tax returns to the public, leaving the american public bout a clear picture of the finances of the man who campaigned as a successful businessman. the "new york times" obtained the 1995 returns which shows he declared a tax deductible that would with let him avoid any taxes for 18 years. he noted that it showed he understood the country's tax laws.

>> i understand the tax laws. better almost anyone. which is why i am one who can truly fix them. i understand it, i get. as a businessman and real estate developer, i have legally used the tax laws to my benefit. i have brilliantly used those laws. i have a fiduciary responsibility to pay no more tax than is legally required like anybody else or put another way. to pay as little tax as legally possible. >> you hear that cheering? well, now america's is closer than they've ever been to seeing the tax return oz of donald trump. that's next. stay tuned. stay tuned ♪we gonna do what they say can't be done♪ ♪we've got a long way to go ♪and a short time to get there.♪ ♪i'm eastbound, just watch ole bandit run♪

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i'm relentless. and my doctor and i choose to treat my metastatic breast cancer with verzenio. be relentless. ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. welcome back to "hardball." next week democrats on the house ways and means committee are working on a bill that would require presidents to release their tax refunds and take advantage of a law that includes house ways and means committee and financial committee to request the tax returns from the treasury secretary. i'm joined by washington bureau chief and former u.s. attorney. david, first, what do you see the politics of this? the new chair of the committee, how are they going to work this thing to get the tax returns of donald trump? >> it seems to me he has the right under this law you just

referenced to make a direct request for the tax returns of any american in pursuit of legitimate inquiry, that would include donald trump. someone is saying why not send that request the day he came to power with the house democrats? he's moving very deliberately forward. they have hearings next week on this bill that would make it a law that you have to present your tax returns if you run for president. examine the potential conflicts of interest that trump and other presidents might have and work his way, creating a foundation to making that request for treasury. it goes directly to mnuchin and then the issue is -- the law is separate. the law would make it a requirement for other candidates in the future. richard neal, the chairman of the house ways and committee can do that tomorrow and it goes to

the irs and the treasury department and the issue is would they honor that request or -- >> excuse me. seems to me the president is lying here. he's not being audited. he's not bun for three years. he's lying and the question is when are they going to call his bluff and say ask the irs is he under audit or not? get to the preliminary stage? >> current law does allow the chairman of the ways and means committee or the chairman of the house fi house fine angs committee to make request of theturb tax returns. no doubt that will happen. the ways and means chair of course that will make that request. the question is what will thesic reitary of treasury do? we're in uncharted waters if the request is not complied with and so we'll see. >> mnuchin's not going to do it because he's asked.

>> that will likely get in a contempt proceeding and litigation. >> the democrats could hold m mnuchin in contempt? >> possibly. he's out there saying i've been under oddet for two or three years. he's provided no proof of the audit and he could provide tax returns prier to that period. >> you're the exexpert on the law. does robert mueller have donald trump's tax returns right now? >> that experience tells me there's really no doubt mueller has those. that's right. >> in fact the irs has been asked about this and they've -- not that they have but there would be a legitimate request special prosecutor, they would honor it and there's a lot the tax returns could tell us and not everything. they won't tell us about his locs and his foreign sources. a lot of that goes 250 different

channels. not everything. >> it got al cupone, didn't it? >> al was not paying taxes. >> it's amazing friday night. how do you like the new entrance to the democratic primary? >> the quality is wonderful. his video was great. kamala harris's big event was great. >> i think it's going to be a wild and wonderfully positive campaign season before they start killing each other. up next why a move donald trump made today could prove be to very dangerous. ay could prov to very dangerous.

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when i interviewed candidate, donald trump in 2016 he surprised me with his attitude towards nuclear weapons. >> where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the middle east. >> somebody hits us with a nuke, you wouldn't fight back? you don't want to say take everything off the table. >> just nuclear. >> nuclear should be off the table but would there be a time it could be used, yes. >> the whole world with, britain, they're hearing a guy running for president nof united states talking of maybe using nuclear weapons.

>> then why do we make them? >> because mutual destruction that regan hated. >> the end -- >> so you tell the middle east we're never using the nuclear weapon. >> i would with never take any of my cards off the table. >> how about europe? just say i will never use them uneurope. >> i am not taking cards off the table. >> he seemed to lack any knowledge of the havoc they reeked and how that may have kept the cold war cold, free of an all-out military conflict between the united states and u.s.s.r. he seemed to view nuclear weapons as steel gurders or cinder blocks. he spoke of using them not as deterrents but another ready-to-use weapon in the arsenal. today they moved to withdrawal the united states from the nuclear arms treaty with russia.

the treaty that banned the nuclear competition between east and west in europe. doesn't the president know the dangers he's flirting with? that's "hardball" right now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" roger stone warned by the court. >> did you ever talk to him about wikileaks? >> as the president brakes his silence. >> no, i didn't. >> tonight a familiar denial from the president. >> did you ever tell him or other people to get in touch with him? >> never did. >> and the mystery of roger stone wikileaks and the access hollywood tape. >> you can do anything. >> plus the president pulls america out of an arms treaty with russia. >> this is not standing up to russia. this is giving them a gift. >> the virginia's appearance in a rac