thank you for watching. "am joy" with joy reid starts right now. that photo and the racist and offensive attitudes that it represents, does not reflect that person i am today or the way that i have conducted myself as a soldier, a doctor, and a public servant. i am deeply sorry. i cannot change the decisions i made nor can i undo the harm my behavior caused then and today but i accept responsibility for my past actions an ready to do the hard work of refwang your trust. >> good morning. welcome to "am joy." 24 hours in pressure is mounting on democratic virginia governor ralph northam to resign over a

racist photo from his medical school yearbook in 1984. the photo shows one person in black face and the other in a ku klux klan robe. northam is taking responsibility for the photo but didn't specify whether he's the guy in black face or wearing kkk garb. so far northam has apologized but said he will remain in office. calls for his resignation are coming from all corners, not just republicans but long-time allies like his predecessor terry mcauliffe, state house and senate democrats and the legislative black caucus. several 2020 democratic hopefuls tweeted calls for northam to resign. if northam does step down lieutenant governor justin fairfax would become governor. this racist photo was placed in a medical school yearbook not a high school yearbook in 1984, the year that jesse jackson first ran for president. joining me is mark thompson host of sirius xm radio, jean-pierre

adviser at moveon.org, jonathan capehart and by phone laura, a virginia politics reporter for the "washington post." laura, i will start with you. give us the latest. there had been talk of potentially northam having a press conference this morning. there is tons of pressure mounting on him really from all over the country both democrats and republicans, how -- how long do you expect him to hang on? >> well, i think even his closest allies here think it's only a matter of time, but there really has still not been any official word of a press conference. we keep hearing 9:00, 10:00, but so far, nothing official scheduled. it does seem that his allies think it's just a matter of time. >> there have been a couple of shoes that have not yet dropped. i mean, lots of people nationally, reverend jesse jackson has a statement this

morning a lot of 2020 democrats have statements out. one of the shoes that hasn't dropped is governor wilder, douglas wilder, that has not happened yet. any expectation that he will have some comment on this? >> well, you know, i'm a little surprised we haven't heard from him. i've reached out, i'm sure others have reached out, but he has stayed quiet and as you know he usually speaks his mind, so you never know if he will weigh in. >> and let's talk a little bit about -- let's bring the panel in, mark on set, one of the complicating factors for northam is justin fairfax the lieutenant governor who won election separately, but got only about 1% less than he did on the ballot, did very well and cleared the threshold cleanly, justin fairfax phone for having sat out the robert e. lee tribute the state does before mlk day, ironic the republicans

calling for northam to resign, participate and support the robert e. lee celebration. he has pretty much laid down a marker he's not really here for this old confederate stuff. do you think that the fact that he's there waiting in the wings makes it harder for northam to hang on? >> if it does it validates the photo. if he's saying he's changed that's not him anymore even though that's an irrelevant conversation. prove he's changed stepping aside so the qualified and almost equal vote getting lieutenant governor can step in and would also do away with the other concerns, remember during the campaign, that he left justin fairfax purposely off of several fliers, so there's a moral consideration in terms of taking height ride, being humble and stepping away, but also political one. he could hurt the party in virginia. to get two democratic governors

back to back you run the risk, if you put in fairfax you have a governor succeeding himself can finish out northam's term and run again. when i lived down, we dealt with this before. remember when george allen hand, so virginia has been through this, and it's really embarrassing to go through it again. northam should do the right thing and step aside. >> jonathan, one of the things that is in the ether and atmosphere as we talk about this is charlottesville, which was so jarring for the entire country. i want to play ralph northam talking about the white nationalist riot that happened in charlottesville in which one woman heather heyer was killed and two others killed in a helicopter crash. here's ralph northam in november of 2017. >> we have a tremendous tragedy in charlottesville two months ago. our president didn't stand up and call the white supremacists out for who they are. ed gillespie has had over 70

days to stand up and denounce our president for not standing up and calling these supremacists out for who they were. to tell them that we don't condone hatred and bigotry in virginia and don't come back to virginia. >> that is, you know, the ralph northam of today, which is, obviously, relevant and should be, continue to be relevant, but can that ralph northam survive this scandal? >> no. i think because of that ralph northam, the picture that came out makes it impossible for him to even have the moral authority to be -- to remain governor. i want to be clear that i am speaking for myself and not the institution for which i work. because of that clip that you just showed and people knew that about ralph northam in the campaign and it was such a stark contrast to ed gillespie and the kind of campaign he was running, a trump-ian white supremacist

campaign, that's why i think that picture that came out yesterday was so jarring to so many people. how can someone who speaks the way that ralph northam did in that clip, be someone who would take a picture like that, submit it to their yearbook, and then not say whether he's the white terrorist in the kkk hood and part of an organization that terrorized african-americans throughout the south or he's the menstrual stereotypical character meant to degrade and belittle african-americans. which one are you? the fact that we are having this debate about a democratic governor of a southern state just shows why ralph northam, i think, cannot remain as governor of virginia. there's nothing he can say at this point that i think could save him.

i should point out because it -- you haven't mentioned it yet, i'm sure people are looking on twitter know this, former vice president joe biden considering his 2020 presidential run has sent out a tweet two minutes before we went on air saying that ralph northam, governor northam, should resign because he has lost all moral authority to be governor of the state. >> yeah. it's take an while. there's been a rolling sort of set of 2020 candidates who have come in, kamala harris pretty early, kirsten gillibrand yesterday, you had over the course of the hours as this rolled out, you had upwards of eight or ten people at least considering running for president are coming out. to remind folks about the ed gillespie campaign, when ralph northam, ed gillespie, a standard issue republican up until that point, decided to sort of go full trump to win the race. his slogan ms-13, one of the things he said, motto, va families at risk and ran this

anti-immigrant campaign. the richmond times dispatch has an editorial out. we act foolish in our youth but a college graduate studying to be a physician in a state with virginia's troubled racial history should know better to reduce that to a joke. that reveals a lack of adult judgment disturbing. a lot pointing out this wasn't a high school yearbook but medical school yearbook. a lot of people wondering how the editors of that yearbook look at that and say that's an okay thing, let's print it. >> absolutely, joy. the medical school has some explaining to do and you know what, ralph northam has not done a great job explaining. i think his video yesterday and statement was weak. let's be clear here, the only reason he's apologizing is because he got caught. we can't get that twisted. i mean this is someone who knew, 25 years old in 1984 and knew that those -- that picture existed. he knew exactly what he did when he was 25 years old.

he didn't share it. what kind of leader is that. he has no moral authority to lead anymore and if he truly wants to be a leader he should see the writing on the wall and step down and resign and we would have a great governor in justin fairfax. someone who is 39, young, and incredibly impressive and used to be on your show a couple times and i think why not, why not step down and do the right thing because the only reason he's apologizing like i said is because he got caught. he doesn't seem like he understand how racist that picture was, how harmful and shameful that picture was and as i said to you last night, joy, one of the main groups, the main constituents that helped him win in 2017, was the black community. they came out in a full force for northam. he overperformed hillary clinton the year prior, and where is the apology to that community?

i don't think he fully understand what is at stake and what he actually did and what that picture means. >> it's interesting, mark, this is a guy who says he voted for george w. bush twice, he wasn't exactly like a progressive democrat, voted for republicans in the past, but to karine's point, black voters rallied to his side even though he didn't really run alongside justin fairfax. is this a bigger picture? you see so much weight put on pushing him to resign because the afternoon community essentially is in a position now to say to the democratic party, you know, this is your base, this is your core voter base and if there's not a reaction like from the democratic party i would think there would be something of a revolt. >> absolutely. and the democratic party is -- i mean the african-american base has kept the democratic party in business all these years. not to mention the fact where we've had black lieutenant governors before, they've not always been supported when it was their turn to ascend to the position. a little bit of history in that. he's really right now i think

only thinking about himself. another thing that's interesting, two things, in terms of the full reporting, let's be clear, those who exposed him on this have no virtue. he was actually -- he didn't answer it right but he was dealing with the progressive issue, women's reproductive choice, acting as a progressive, we'll give him credit for that and they dinged him on this. for those, this is the definition -- >> the outfit that actually dug this up, it wasn't -- it eventually was confirmed by legitimate news organizations, "the washington post" and the virginia pilot but started off with a group that does research that is associated with somebody from the formerly of the daily caller and folks associated with roy moore's campaign in alabama. they actually found it and they had this new website that sort of research part news and found it at first. i want to talk quickly about this abortion issue because that's where this started. i want to bring you in on this.

the ralph northam sort of news on the right started out as a conversation about late-term abortion. this is ralph northam earlier in the week in an interview with a radio station, wtop, defending an abortion bill and this is what initially drew the fire of the right. take a listen. >> in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, i can tell you exactly what would happen. the infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. >> laura, quickly, we're running out of time, but talk a little bit about that particular controversy and how that played out before we even got to the yearbook piece? >> right. that started things off earlier in the week, he was talking about this late-term abortion bill, sponsor under questioning

from a republican legislator had said that the bill would allow an abortion all the way through the full 40 weeks of pregnancy and when pressed do you mean up until dilation and she said yes. that created a firestorm. when the governor was on the radio the next day and asked about that, he made this comment that his -- that he's never fully clarified either, but his office said he was talking about in cases where the fetus is not viable or has severe deformities, that he was talking about having a discussion with parents about medical options or prognosis. that's what his office later clarified. >> right. >> people took that to mean that he was advocating a delivered baby. that went wild. that was odd enough. and then the toper was friday

when these, the photo surfaced. >> he's a physician, pediatric neurologist and that's kind of weird this began, for the audience, the outlet is big league politics, daily beast article about them, a quick note it's an outpost according to the daily beast of pro-trump viewpoints and anti-liberal conspiracy theories on the internet, editorial division run by patrick howly for news sites such as breitbart news the daily caller and washington post and washington free beacon. they found the receipts on northam and that is where this began. mark, karine and jonathan will be back later. laura vozzella thank you very much. >> bye-bye. >> we'll be monitoring the story and if the governor does speak we will bring it live. coming up donald trump tries nancy pelosi. probably not so smart. we'll be back. art. we'll be back.

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♪ ♪ ain't no mountain we can

climb ♪ ♪ i got you babe >> and just like he kept reliving that one day over and over again, here we are, on groundhog day, donald trump still no closer to getting his super special awesome see through wall, miss nancy is not giving you that wall. another shutdown is looming in just two weeks. now to be fair, things are a little bit different this time around. "the washington post" reports that mitch mcconnell who typically retreats into a kind of shell when donald trump is around, is privately warning the president against declaring a national emergency to try to force his wall too being. cautioning that even senate republicans, even they might revolt. of course this isn't stopping donald trump from acting out. >> we're getting nowhere with the democrats. we're not going to get anywhere with them. it's going to be a part of their campaign but i don't think it's good politically. i think nancy pelosi should be ashamed of herself because she's hurting a lot of people.

>> are you saying now you expect to declare -- >> i don't want to say. you'll here the state of union and see what happens right after the state of the union. okay. >> joining me is democratic congressman ted lu who serves on the foreign relations and judiciary committees of the united states house. good morning. >> good morning. >> let's talk about this negotiation that's happening. the sense i have and you can correct me if i'm wrong, is that house and senate leadership in the two parties are pretty much negotiating over funding for the government without really donald trump having any involvement because it feels like he's trying to force his way back into the conversation. am i wrong about that? >> you are not and let me first say that having been elected to the democratic house leadership team i want to confirm what many people already know, nancy pelosi is a badass and that's why we're doing so well in the negotiations because we've been able to transform this discussion to talk about real border security, not about this

stupid wall that is not going to really prevent the actual drugs coming through, because most come through ports of entry. we're going to make sure we have effective smart bill sewaorder . >> this comes up every time there is a democrat sitting in a seat such as yours and it's a question that gets asked really in every interview, can you just clear up for those of us in the media and for the audience once and for all, is there any discussion at all about building a wall across the southern border? is that at all in the realm of possibility? >> so we have this conference committee of republicans and democrats and there are discussions about additional physical barriers in some places and we'll see how those discussions go, but the wall that donald trump envisions that is not part of the discussion and by the way, that was not part of the discussion for the last two years when republicans controlled both houses of congress and here is the really

simple truth, most republican legislators don't really care about this wall. this is not one of their priorities and that's why they didn't work on it over two years. >> donald trump has a hard time getting anything he wants they don't already want. let's go to the idea of a national emergency and a potential second government shutdown. we know how the first one really harmed a lot of people. "the washington post" is reporting that mitch mcconnell and the other body in the senate is telling donald trump that any move to either shut the government down again or do a national emergency would trigger political blowback and divide the gop according to two republicans with knowledge of the exchange. mcconnell told trump that congress might end up passing a resolution tis approving of an emergency declaration, the people said, which would force the president to contemplate using his first veto ever in the face of opposition from his own party. can you explain to me why it is that your colleagues on the other side of the aisle are so afraid of overriding a presidential veto? why don't they just pass a bill,

why are we having this discussion about a national emergency? why don't they pass a bill and make him veto it? >> i think we might get to that point. here's two reasons why donald trump hasn't declared a national emergency yet, because if he thought he could be successful he will have done this 35 days ago. the first i'll do it asking you and your viewers a simple question, remember the last time that you or your family member had an emergency and then you waited two years plus an additional three weeks before going to the emergency room? no one does that. factually on the facts of the national emergency donald trump will lose in court. here's a reason why i think he doesn't want to do this, if he did this, he would get a one-time shot of between 5 to $7 billion which would pay for about one tenth of his wall and all future appropriations bills congress would write in you cannot use this funding for the wall meaning he will never get the rest of his wall built. only way he can do this to get his wall built is negotiate with congress and have a comprehensive immigration plan. >> let me quickly switch topics

and talk about this withdrawal of the united states from the imf treaty. you set on the foreign relations committee. your thoughts about this idea of withdrawing the u.s. the russians say not only are they too going to withdraw but restart their missile programs. >> nuclear weapons and nuclear treaties can be complicated but there is one very simple truth and that is this, no one wins in nuclear war. the u.s. withdrawing from the inf treaty was a bad idea and i've introduced ledggislation fm senator mark ki from launching a nuclear strike without getting congressional authorization. congress needs to exert its rule role in a forceful way with donald trump in office. >> i want to give you an opportunity to weigh in, prominent democrats calling on ralph northam the governor of virginia to resign, what are your thoughts? >> governor northam must resign. that picture in his yearbook is completely indefensible and it is incredibly racist and i know

that former secretary of state of florida resigned for a picture of him being blackface. this is even worse. it's blackface next to a kkk figure. there's no way governor northam should remain in office. >> congressman ted lieu appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> coming up, we're going to take a coffee break. take a coff.

the 2020 primary season is just getting started and already has everything. women candidates, people of color, and lbgt candidate, senate -- >> i'm kirsten gillibrand, a senator from new york state. >> i'm cory booker and kirsten gillibrand, one of her best friends in washington. >> true facts. >> what was missing, know what it was needing, right a centrist independent. no? like it or not, former starbucks ceo howard schultz is out saying he may run for president as that. schultz is touting his bio as a selling point, grew up in a housing project in brooklyn, although he's here to tell you we need to get your government

subsidies on social security, got to cut the debt. schultz was the first in his family to graduate college a dream that could be realized by millions more except he believes that free college for all is not realistic. a few years after college schultz went to work for starbucks as their director of marketing straight to the top. in 1983 in a marketing milan, schultz discovered espresso and when starbucks didn't catch on for selling it for $5 he quit to start his own company with help of investor friends. howard schultz up and bought starbucks for a mere $4 million. that's not who you know, it's who knows you. when schultz took the company public in 1992 it made him a rich man. in 2018 his last year as ceo he took a salary of $1, but he was paid more than $30 million in stock. stock is taxed at the all-american rate of 15%. sorry to those of you normals

who pay a higher percentage in your w-2s. maybe you should have thought about becoming billionaires? ever think about that. howard schultz would like to keep that low tax rate and the giant tax rate that he and other rich people and corporations got from donald trump and the republicans who remember he's totally against. and he really hates the extremism of things like medicare for all which he literally called un-american. did i mention that at 65 years of age, he's on medicare? mostly howard schultz would like to send you democrats a warning, go ahead and nominate whoever you like, but don't even think about touching howard's tax cuts or he and his never trump friends will do what they have to do. like maybe help re-elect donald trump. we'll talk about the implied threat of the howard schultz campaign in waiting next. srdchz campaign in waiting next for your heart... your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you...

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i'm not a democrat. i don't affiliate myself with the democratic party who is so far left who basically wants the government to take over health care which we cannot afford, the government to give free college to everybody, and the government to give everyone a job which basically is $40 trillion on the balance sheet of $21.5 trillion. we can't afford it. >> joining me is republican strategist evan siegfried and jonathan capehart is back with me. evan, my working theory of what's happening with howard schultz his candy idacy is sortf a threat. you had never trump republicans

like steve schmidt one of the most eloquent people in describing what donald trump has done to the presidency and country, but people like steve who don't feel comfortable in the republican party and who don't necessarily feel comfortable in the democratic party over certain policies would very much love to kind of force the democrats to nominate somebody they would like, somebody they wouldn't mind voting for and sort of kind of say you can do what you want but if you nominate elizabeth warren we would rather have trump he gives us tax cuts. "vanity fair" talks about he's a mr. berns foil and the question they have about somebody like steve schmidt, is it possible he has a more realistic political game in mind to in addition to a generous paycheck, if the pre-trump republican party can't be resurrected maybe the threat of schultz can push the democrats to nominate a middle of the road candidate. >> the only candidate that republicans who oppose donald trump in 2016 are talking about

for the presidential election and challenging trump and somebody who would reflect our valleys is larry hogan. >> he has no chance. >> that would be in the primaries. >> no chance. >> we know an independent candidate like howard schultz would hand re-election to donald trump. steve schmidt has caught green-itis, looking at dollar signs not the well being of the country. >> before we -- and, you know, i don't purport to snow steve well, just as a colleague here, but steve schmidt genuinely loathes in my estimation donald trump, and i get the sense when i talk to him and other never trump republicans that i know, that they would love to see their party reborn as a new party. the easiest vehicle to do that would be to have a third party, sort of turn their old party into the wigs and there are two ways that could happen, the democrats become more of a republican party that they like and feel comfortable in it or another party they can go to. this feels more like that. of course they're all going to make a lot of money but this also feels like that, like a way to make a new republican party

for ourselves or just force the democrats to nominate somebody we like. it can't just be as crass as money. >> we're not going to change the democratic party as republicans. >> this is a way to make another party. >> looking at the other party practical and logistical issues here. you have to give ballot access to all 50 states. >> if you're a billionaire you buy it. >> you have to have a constituency. what state does he put in his column. none. 4% among democrats, 4% independents, 4% republicans. everybody hates howard schultz. i don't think there's anything for him to do here. his book isn't in the top 25 on amazon. reviews people angry at him because he moved the seattle supersonics, the man more loathed than the flu right now. it's a fool's errand to even consider him as a serious person. he could take away votes and spoil the election but he's not somebody that anti-trump forces in the republican party are backing.

we think he's a joke. >> if he did that jonathan, he would keep his tax -- let's be honest, howard schultz would rather have his tax cuts than elizabeth warren be president. who does love howard schultz right now, dunkin' donuts because a lot of people are saying, you know, they're taking out their anger on starbucks. let me play a little bit of just to give evan credit for what he's saying, there doesn't seem to be a yearning for howard schultz. there seems to be this, here is a heckler going after howard schultz. >> i wanted to clarify the word independent which i view merely as a designation on the ballot. >> don't help elect trump! you egotistical billionaire [ bleep ]! >> jonathan, after that, you know what i saw all over my twitter feed, heckler 2020. like people wanted the heckler to be president. sherrod brown called him a total idiot. there is no boomlet or

constituency other than republicans who want to either control the democratic nominee or to have donald trump back and keep the tax cuts. am i wrong? >> i'm hard pressed to argue against your theory there, joy. howard schultz has been rumored to be considering running for president for a long time now. to the point where people who knew him as a democrat were assuming he was going to run for president within the democratic party. the person we saw in -- on "60 minutes," on "morning joe" is someone who i don't even recognize. i mean i was the emcee at the naacp legal and educational defense fund dinner where howard schultz in 2017 won the national justice award who gave this very inspiring speech about his rags to riches upbringing, his commitment to social justice, his work after ferguson, doing

quietly doing town halls in stores around the country to give his employees an opportunity to talk about race and healing and understanding. that person completely disappeared on the set where you're sitting right now when it was "morning joe," sounding more like a sort of republican au tomen to than an unabashed democrat who has turned around to bash other democrats. i have no problem with billionaires running for office. full disclosure, i work for mike bloomberg on his first campaign for mayor at a time when all my friends thought i was absolutely bananas to go work for this guy who everyone said wasn't going to win, was a bored billionaire looking for something to do. 12 years in office as mayor of new york city you can argue about specific policies that he instituted as mayor, but there's no way you can say that he did not do a good job running new

york city. >> right. >> having him run for president in the democratic party is going to make the field better. it's going to make the argument better among democrats why the nation should put them in charge. what howard schultz is doing is really reprehensible, is too strong a word, but i guarantee you if he announced he was running for president in the democratic party his standing within the party, within the country, his reputation, would be intact instead of being in tatters the way it is right now. >> yeah. he wants his money. people love money and he wants his tax cuts. we have to cut the segment short. we have breaking news coming up. quickly, evan, if schultz runs, what percentage, you're the numbers guy, what percentage of the vote would he get? >> i don't know. if we're going by twitter he's getting ratioed for every tweet and if you get ratioed you get schultzed. he could shift a michigan or wisconsin but howard schultz is

not loved except for maybe two to three -- >> becoming the new ralph nader or jill steiner not good for your rep. thank you very much. appreciate you. come back soon. jonathan will be back with us. next up the latest breaking news out of virginia. news out of virginia. and offensive a

represents does not reflect that person i am today or the way that i have conducted myself as a soldier, a doctor, and a public servant. i am deeply sorry. i have spent the past year as your governor fighting for a virginia that works better for all people. i am committed to continuing that fight through the remainder of my term and living up to the expectations you set for me when you elected me to serve. >> the blackface scandal engulfing democratic virginia governor ralph northam is developing further this morning. the virginia democratic party is saying northam will not resign. "the new york times" reporter jonathan martin tweeting out northam is telling democrats in the state it is not him in the photo and he will make a statement this afternoon even though he already admitted

yesterday that it was him in the photo. the photo from his 1984 med school yearbook shows one person in blackface and the other in a ku klux klan robe and hood. mark thompson, home of the make it plain with mark thompson program. karine jean-pierre and msnbc contributor jonathan capehart. mark we were talking about it, northam already put out a statement and a video in which we played a little bit of it a moment ago as a practical matter if he does a press conference now taking all of that back, what happens? >> it's an utter embarrassment. he looks -- this is crazy and bizarre. he's already admitted it was him. now we're supposed to believe it's not him. why didn't he say that in the first place. again, you know, it prolongs the story. you said blackface scandal. we got blackface gate now. it's going to be prolonged for several days.

trump is going to pick it up any minute if he hasn't already tweeted about it already and that becomes the story. we can't hold the trumps of the world and the steve kings and others accountable, now there's a picture of mitch mcconnell circling in front of a confederate flag, democrats can't call that out if ralph northam won't resign. he already admitted it. can't say it was me and wasn't me. that doesn't -- >> it's interesting because right, there is the -- there were folks yesterday jimmy williams and others, from south carolina, tweeted out a picture from south carolina tweeted out a picture of mitch mcconnell in front of a confederate flag making the rounds on twitter now. lots of people talking about the ongoing steve king in which you have tim ryan of ohio talking about the fact that he's promoting a website. there's all of this other stuff in the ether that's happening at the same time. i'm wondering, northam as a democrat, as somebody who is a member of the party, in a very important swing state, if there

are people around him who are cognizant of the fact that this all gets pulled in to the importance of virginia and virginia for 2020, the obligation that democratic party has to african-americans who -- upon whom they are dependent on to win elections it's a lot. give me your thoughts. >> the irony they would be elevating in his lieutenant governor an african-american the lone statewide official who is black, justin fairfax, as lieutenant governor, to the office if northam resigns. by pushing him out, sensibly over not really his racist photo, this isn't really about that, it's about the earlier couldn'ters ha couldn't controversy house bill which is a roll back of abortion restrictions in the state they had been targeting northam about this week and, you know, not just the bill itself but also his comments about it. this is a long -- this is an old tactic in the anti-abortion

game. we're not really talking about just racism here. we're talking about anti-abortion tactics. so really, we're talking about the racism that we're taught to recognize. we're taught to recognize that racism looks like a klan hood but not taught to recognize the systemic racism these conservatives have been conspicuously silent about. until we hear them speak up about black infant death rates being disproportionately higher than white death rates in that respect, then frankly i will doubt their sincerity as to their, you know, belief in the cause. i don't believe they woke up on the first day of black history month and became concerned about racism. >> yeah. karine, i think that's what a lot of kind of the circle that i travel in, people are saying, look, you have a state that is one of the last of the new south states now that florida and georgia have slipped out of the kind of new south column based on the gubernatorial elections, at least that's the feeling about them. is that you know, there are a

lot of other things happening here. they do a robert e. lee day, the friday before martin luther king, jr. day in the same state in virginia that the lieutenant governor justin fairfax actually in protest sat out of. he's supposed to lead the senate. he refused to take part in it. charlottesville happen which was over whether or not to leave up statutes of robert e. lee, the still pining for the confederacy is happening, an the outfit that is practicing this kind of revenge kind of politics, right, we'll find dirt on you and et cetera. is connected to roy moore who had a racial history and obviously a history vis-a-vis young girls and this is -- feels like now we're going to go and get a democrat. there's all of this tied up in it. i wonder if that swirl of other stuff winds up getting litigated along with northam? >> absolutely. there's so much kind of tit for tat and ugliness with all of this. we talked about charlottesville

and the history of virginia and when you look at the racism there, and yes, it was a different type of racism and dark history of racism but now we have the present day situation happening and honestly all those republicans who supported cory stewart and who supported ed gillespie they need to sit down. the problem is that yesterday, northam admitted to this in a video, in a statement, and let's say -- let's just say, joy, we didn't hear or see what we saw yesterday, let's say it didn't happen, if you look at the yearbook, the picture still exists. it was his medical school yearbook when he was 25 years old. he put it there as a joke? even if he's not in there. that's problematic and disqualify. there is this question that we have to deal with, with what republicans, the far right are doing, the tit for tat, but at the end of the day we have to call this out. he must resign. it just sounds ridiculous he's

saying he didn't say what he said yesterday. it sounds like a pain out of trump's playbook. you guys don't -- didn't see or hear what you thought you saw and heard. >> let me read a little pit of the statement, the original statement, first in writing and then ralph northam recorded it as a video statement. the original statement said i'm deeply sorry for the decision i made to appear as i did in this photo and for the hurt that decision caused then and now. this behavior is not in keeping with who i am today an the values i fought for throughout my career n military, medicine and public service but i want to be clear i understand how this decision shakes virginian's faith in that commitment and recognize it will take time and effort to heal the damage and i'm ready to do the important work and offer my sincerest apology and live up to the expectations virginia set for me when they elected to be their governor. is it pragmatically possible as somebody who has followed politics to undue that statement?

>> no. inca republican hit on the exact point i was going to make in response to this question, it does -- at this point does not matter whether he is the character or the person in the kkk hood. it is on his page the fact that he had this racist image on his medical school yearbook page, speaks to his judgment, speaks to what was he thinking, speaks to where was his head at that time. it completely still erodes his moral authority to be the governor of the state, just having that picture on his page. now throw in now that he's saying he doesn't know it's him and now jonathan has tweeted it out the governor is calling around to classmates to try to determine whether he is in this picture, that does not matter anymore now that the former sitting vice president of the united states has called on him to resign, that his -- when

he was lieutenant governor, governor mcauliffe has called on him to resign, bobbie scott, the dean of the congressional delegation in your state, has called on you to resign. you have a sitting lieutenant governor who is african-american who is lovely and cordial and has been silent in all of this, this particular ralph northam -- governor northam issue, but he has made it plain since his first days in office as lieutenant governor that he does not like the history of his state and has sat out two years in a row now from the robert e. lee commemorations they do in the state legislature. i don't see how governor northam can hang on when everything around him has been crumbling. he is a person in a row boat that has no floor. >> and you know, we're waiting to see if doug wilder the former the first african-american governor of virginia is going to respond. there haven't been very many

black governors. last night, you know, twitter corrected me and added pbs -- the first. mass it's not like there have been that many. the fact that northam in could in a sense clear the way for the fifth one and clear the way for the justin fairfax which a lot of people would applaud him for. it's interesting to see how long he will be able to not do than i will get the panel back in. let me bring in julian castro one of many declared and pre-declared presidential candidates the former secretary of hud for one of the declared candidates for president. mr. castro, thank you for being here. let me get your thoughts. a lot of your fellow candidates and people who we think will be candidates have weighed in on this. what do you think the consequences for the democratic party would be if northam remains in office in 2020 when

you and others are running for the presidency? >> well, what we want as democrats is a country where everybody counts and everybody is respected, whether you're talking at the state level, federal level or anywhere in the country. this sends exactly the opposite message that you could have somebody that engaged in that kind of behavior, that did it when he was an adult, that did it in 1984, so this wasn't 60 or 70 years ago. it never came forward about it in the first place until it was picked up by journalists. i think that the best thing for him to do is to step aside and to resign. >> would you refuse to campaign in virginia if he is still the governor? >> well, i don't know that i would refuse to campaign if the state. i think a more precise question is would i refuse to campaign with him and the answer to that is yes.

the people of virginia, i see them as separate and apart from the question of who the governor is. all of us owe it to campaign in front of the people of every single state in the country. sure, i would go and campaign in the state because i don't blame the people of virginia for the conduct of this one man. what i do think is that governor northam should step aside and it's gotten bizarre this morning, as y'all just mentioned, some have mentioned, because last night he seemed to -- he offered an apology basically took responsibility for this and then this morning, at least if we believe these news reports, he seems to be saying that's not him in the photo and if you think about his yearbook caption from the virginia military institute from college and the slur of a nickname that he had, you know,

it's something about all of that doesn't add up. i'm not sure at this point after his apology and given the other information that we have about the other yearbook, that he should even be given the benefit of the doubt saying it's not him. >> and sir, we have statements from the virginia democrats put out a statement this morning saying we made the decision to let governor northam do the correct thing and resign. this morning we've gotten word he will not do so this morning. i'm quickly scouring over the laws regarding recall and do you believe that if he were eligible for same, it says here that reasons for recall in the state of virginia according to their rules and statutes would be negligence of duty, misuse of office, incompetence in the performance and then convictions of a crime. if it is lawful to do so do you believe the governor of virginia should be recalled? >> if it's lawful then that's something that people of

virginia -- he should do the right thing and resign. if not i believe that the people of virginia should do what they can to make sure that there's a change in leadership. i just don't think that he can be effective in that role anymore and that lieutenant governor fairfax would be much more effective. also, would send a strong message again that everybody counts in the state of virginia and this country. that's what we want in this 21st century. >> huljulian castro, candidate the president of the united states, thank you for your time. >> thanks a lot, joy. >> thank you very much. we have a statement in from former virginia governor doug glass wilder, his press secretary directed us to this statement on his website it has never been right in virginia nor anywhere else to participate in or condone such mockery or insensitive behavior and for that governor northam should be criticized. this is not about politics or personal relationships.

this is about government of the people, by the people and for the people all of the people, the choice of his continuing his in office is his to make. let me get everyone's comments on that, mark. >> well, i think the choice that ought to be made and i appreciate governor wilder's statement, great deal of respect for him, should join the chorus he should resign. we already know from 2016 how important the african-american base is and 2018 as well and for that reason that the russians targeted the african-american community and all their ads on social media and they're still doing it today as we've discussed. this feeds into that agenda by showing african-americans here you are with a party that continues to have somebody like ralph northam. they can do the both sides. they can say republican party is racist, the democratic party is racist and why ralph northam -- i don't know how long the news cycle is these days, an hour, he has less than that to prove

that's not him, not his yearbook, his nickname wasn't -- >> the challenge is that the way that yearbook is set up it's in quarters and each person's page is half the page. if you look at it, there's a person who's above him who appears to be asian american and then on that page there are only the two of them. it would be difficult -- the picture appears under the name ralph northam, which is his name, it's going to be difficult. i don't know, as -- if you were -- i mean let me just get your thoughts. i don't have a question. >> it's hard to explain, joy. it is incredibly hard to explain. it doesn't make sense and it's bizarre of where ralph northam is if the reporting is all true about him calling around the commonwealth trying to tell democrats it's not him or not even doing that, but calling his medical friends, student former medical student friends asking if it's him.

none of it matters anymore. you can't explain this away. you can't. it is a racist photo, regardless like i said before, regardless if he's in it or not. it's a horrific photo. he is a democrat who is now the governor of the commonwealth of virginia. we cannot have this. he needs to move on. he needs to go. it's -- just think about it, joy, we have the most diverse primary in -- right now in the presidential 2020 that's coming up. we just heard from julian castro who is a latino candidate clearly in this primary. we can't have this. we can't have this from this governor at all from a democrat governor. how are we going to be able to call out republicans or to continue to call out donald trump if this is going on. >> yeah. >> this -- he has to resign. >> jamill smith what about the -- i would love it if my producers could get me a list of all of the democratic candidates

and pre-candidates and thought to be candidates who have made statements on this, not everyone has. i wonder if this winds up becoming a litmus test for people who want to be the democratic primary nominee if they weigh in strongly on something like this or on this specifically. >> indeed. i think that the one question i would have asked mr. castro is that should racism become a firing offense in politics? that's something the 2020 election should be a referendum on. >> let me ask you that question as an analyst of the political world should it be? >> yes. unquestionably. i think we talk about steve king, you talk about donald trump, when you talk about anyone, who engages in either racist acts that are against unquestionable as this or even systemically racist acts such as calling, you know, fair access to the ballot a power grab on the senate floor or deeming fair housing, you know, people want

fair housing freeloaders. those are racist acts in my view and should be equally punished. people being booted out of office either by elections or by being pressured to resign. >> you know -- >> i think those things are important for people to recognize as racism in different forms. >> the challenge, of course, jonathan capehart is that lyndon johnson was known to use a word that wasn't negro talking about african-americans the way he grew up the way harry truman grew up and truman and lyndon johnson committed incredible acts of really he rowism in terms of civil rights and truman desegregating the military, lyndon johnson delivering on the promises set up by john f. kennedy to make equal african-americans in this country, that you can have people who have personal views that may be distasteful the way they speak about african-americans that can become, you know, champions of civil rights. that is possible to happen. it happened with lyndon johnson.

woodrow wilson was a vehemently racist man and still gets in the top ten list whenever historians decide who the best presidents were. lincoln wrote letters about it being better to take the negro out of america. race is the original sin to quote condoleeza rice of this country born in slavery. how do voters process all of that if northam, you know, what his case he's trying to make being a good governor, a progressive governor and that he should be allowed to hang on. the history of the cont there have been a lot of racist politicians. >> sure. >> joy, it goes back to a word i've used over and over again and that's moral authority. i mean, sure, you push -- try to do the right thing and push through good policies, but if people don't feel you have the moral authority to even hold the office that you have, how much good works will you be able to

do? the democratic party of president lyndon johnson is completely different than the democratic party of today. >> indeed. >> the democratic party of lyndon johnson as republicans are always -- they love pointing out the fact that it was democrats who were the ones standing in the way of civil rights legislation and were the, quote, unquote racist segregationists of the time. the party has changed, the country has changed and governor northam is the governor of a state that figures -- figured in the confederacy and slavery. he's in a party that has probably the most diverse candidates running for the presidential nomination, probably in this country's history. he ran a campaign for governor against a republican challenger who was once believed to be a mainstream traditional republican who instead ran a

trump-ian racial dog whistle campaign. put all those things together that is why that photograph is so jarring. that is why governor northam cannot hang on. i find it -- you pointed out that the first black governor of the commonwealth governor wilder put out a statement that noticeably doesn't say that northam should resign. another former governor of virginia governor tim kaine, now senator tim kaine, did the same thing yesterday, called out what happened as racist but did not call on the governor, governor northam, to resign. what both those men are sutley trying to do is try to communicate to governor northam, to give him the courtesy to do the right thing and to step aside. i believe it was either jamil or mark who is talking about the fact that if governor northam were to step aside, what he would be be doing is one,

starting the process of repairing his relationship with the african-american community in the state that helped him get elected, but also, he would be be making way for an african-american governor to come in and take the position of governor of the commonwealth. if you want to do right by the people of virginia, if you want to do right by the office of the governor and if you want to do right by history, governor northam, you must resign. >> yeah. >> we've had statements out from elizabeth warren, who was one of the first to come out said these racist images are deeply disturbing, hatred and discrimination have no place in our country must not be tolerated from our leaders. northam must resign. senator kamala harris called on northam to resign, julian castro who we heard, moveon.org, guy cecil, the chairman of the priorities usa one of the big pacts, it goes on and on. senator mark warner has not so

openly called for him to resign but a lot of statements. kirsten gillibrand who is a candidate for president of the united states. let's play her statement. >> senator, can you clarify your position on governor northam? >> has there been news yet? has he stepped down? >> no. >> he should resign. i saw the photo after i saw you guys last night. so disturbing. so racist. there's no place for racism in our government, among our leaders. it really just was so disturbing. >> it's going to become difficult for anyone running, mark, for the democratic nomination for president to not say something because there's some that have not yet and it's going to become difficult to get by now. >> yeah. everybody is going to have to come out and say something. this is completely untenable and again, the longer he delays this, it looks even worse. >> is there some practical

political efficacy to remaining? any pragmatic reason you think he would stay? >> only if somehow he's able to absolutely prove that this is not his yearbook. but if that's not the case, the calls he's making to his classmates should have been made on -- last night at first. i'm not -- i'm not clear on that. it's also -- i've been saying this all along, it speaks to the competency of his operation. we all have yearbooks. you know, we all know what's in our yearbook and any of us -- >> ed gillespies or tom perello who ran against him in the primary or general election nobody found it. >> which is interesting. he must have known it was there. >> right. >> he remembers whether he did that or not. he should have been prepared to answer that if it came up. the other thing i would say that's a little tragic, this is black history month and all of us as adults are supposed to be using this time educating all children, whether black, white,

brown, whatever, as to the contributions of african-americans in history. my son is a baseball player and all i've ever taught him about was hank aaron and jackie robinson. we celebrated jackie robinson's 100 birthday. for a child to know the legacy of jackie robinson and think he gave his life and body to end this and then see in 2e9 019 to know nothing has changed and it's the same thing. >> i have to tell you, people's whose hearts were broken in florida and georgia saw candidates run openly suppressing the votes of african-americans, making it deliberately hard for black people to vote and confederate flags still flying behind politicians who are mainstream or attending david duke's speech. i think the challenge is as a country we don't talk about race, we don't like to, people were angry when president obama tried to make us talk about racism and didn't like it, the charlottesville just happened a couple years ago and the president of the united states

was a birther and won and there is a challenge that is bigger than northam? >> oh, you're absolutely right. the only thing i would add is in order to take on those challenges the party with the most diverse base has to step out in front. >> right. >> take the moral authority and show that we will not tolerate -- we can't call trump out on charlottesville if they're able to do the both sides -- >> we're expecting ralph northam to speak. we thought he was going to speak already. we'll keep waiting for it and won't let any of these people go too far away because we me a need you back. mark thompson, jamill smith, thank you very much. coming up trump plays phone tag that's next. one tag that's next.

i am going to give a major speech on probably monday of next week and we're going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the clintons. i think you're going to find it very imformative and very, very interesting. >> the infamous trump tower meeting of june 2016 has become a major daughteta point where j jr. and jared kushner and others met with a russian lawyer promising dirt on hillary clinton. just two days before that meeting donald trump teased a major speech about a supposed clinton scoop, a speech, that

never happened. when despite all of that trump claimed he had absolutely no knowledge of the meeting democrats who didn't buy it often pointed to two phone calls. the don junior received from blocked numbers around the time of the meeting. despite speculation that those calls may have been to donald trump, the new york times report he spoke with nascar ceo brian france and investor howard norbore and he traveled to moscow to explore building a trump tower there. there are other ways trump could have found out about the meeting but the news didn't stop trump from declaring victory over mueller claiming that the report had exonerated him of all wrong doing and any knowledge gts meeting which is untrue. joining me is legal analyst, paul butler, see ma ire of court tv and malcolm nance author of "the plot to destroy democracy."

paul, i will start with you first if the blocked calls were to a gentleman who was attempting to help build trump tower moscow, how does that exonerate donald trump? >> it does not. what we see is don junior was talking about to folks who had all these connections with russia, including lorbore and paul manafort during a time when don junior testified under oath he wasn't dealing with the russians. >> would that be a crime if he lied in the testimony? >> the same crime michael cohen was prosecuted for, that roger stone was prosecuted for. the significance for mueller is to prove that don sr., the president, knew about the russian meeting in advance. what do we know? we know junior gets this call, dirt on hillary, i love it. he sets up the meeting right after he sets up the meeting, then candidate donald trump at a campaign rally says i got all this dirt on the clintons coming. >> right. >> the meeting happens.

the dirt pans out. trump never makes that speech and so to a prosecutor, this stinks to high heaven. >> sounds like conspiracy, right? is what it would be? >> a conspiracy to cough ver th truth. >> the question is to cover up what truth, you might say. >> right. >> here are all the contexts. donald trump had at least six contacts with russians before the campaign. donald trump, jr. had at least 14, kushner had at least 6 and that's per "the new york times." so you have all of these people dissembling, lying about talking to russians. that's one piece. the second piece is that it's clear that since the '80s donald trump sr. has wanted to build a trump tower in moscow. >> sure. >> if all they were trying to cover up, if all of this dissembling and lying was just because they didn't want to admit they were still trying to build a trump tower while he was running for president, what

plausible explanation would there be for why they wouldly. >> it's not illegal to try to build a condo in moss skou? >> exactly. but here we are, i haven't been on your show in seven months and we're in exactly the same place. we're still not there yet. here is why. okay. according to giuliani mueller is saying i'm not going to indict the president, but why? why wouldn't you indict the president. >> that's according to giuliani. the part you said according to giuliani, we don't know if that's true. >> maybe not. why not yet? why isn't this happening? nothing in the constitution prevents a president from being indicted. everybody is talking about these doj guidelines. the guidelines from the nixon period and then reaffirmed during clinton. but those guidelines were specific to those presidents' actions during their presidency. now trump is allegedly having

committed crimes to get the presidency. so why aren't we at an indictment yet? >> hold on. let me let you answer that question, nixon was also trying to get the presidency, the watergate break-in was during the re-elect. it was in an attempt to get the presidency. >> that's right. the doj manual says that a sitting president can't be indicted but that's kind of like an employees handbook and not really the law. >> exact lply. it's not the law. >> since you've been on the show then mueller has indicted 19 russians for conspiracy, conspiring to throw the election to donald trump, roger stone, michael cohen, paul manafort has pled guilty, so there's a whole lot of evidence leading up to trump. hold on. the mueller investigation isn't over yet. >> okay. a, paul, i've missed you, and b, why aren't we -- >> i missed you too. >> why aren't we there yet? like you're saying all of these indictments are piling up.

more and more evidence. why aren't we at the target trump? >> let me go to malcolm nance on that. here's the thing, you lay out a very, you know, clear-cut case in your book "the plot to destroy democracy" why and what you think is going on that donald trump has been cultivating for a long time as an asset and is the theory in your view, malcolm, that the lure to keep trump in play as an asset is the idea of building the tower? the tower is the lure. or could it be that all of this that we've been talking about for almost three years, has just been a giant plot to build a tower in moscow and cultivate the relationships with kremlin figures to get it done and make money? could it be really that simple? >> no. the lure was the tower. one of the many, many lures.

when this is broken out you will find there are multiple legs in the russian operation in how they were going to get at trump, the republican party, through the nra and evangelicals and now through, you know, legislators who think going to moscow on the fourth of july is a great thing and rand paul being the personal courier between trump and vladimir putin. and actually coopting one third of the mindset of the american public who refused to believe anything that the news media tells them. this is a long ball game that russians have been playing. donald trump himself is the dupe and he was from the very beginning because that's the kind of person you need to do your bidding. trump is no longer an unwitting, you know, asset as we saw very early on. he is winning. he knows exactly what's going on. he figured out what russia was doing for them and he -- i believe it will be proven conspired with russia, maybe

indirectly, but he is very well aware of what's been happening. the only problem that he has is now, that he is running smack into the guardrails of democracy on one hand and justice on the other hand. that kind of accountability was never relied upon for him. he thought he would be the master of the universe and when this was all over and done with, he could get away with anything, make deals with his friends in moscow, get oligarch money and transform america from a democracy to an autocracy. he's failing and we're still talking about it three years later. >> what possible explanation, innocent explanation, could there be for donald trump, for instance, to hide the transcripts of his conversations with vladimir putin? what would the innocent explanation for russia to so thoroughly attempt to infiltrate everything from the nra to the trump campaign to the republican party, why -- what innocent explanations could there be for

those things? >> joy, i don't think there is an innocent explanation. i do think there was a plot to hijack the presidency. my problem is with mueller's actions. is this accumulation of evidence and indictments and why doesn't he have the -- to just start indicting the president? because if there is some reliance on that doj policy, then take it to court. that is what the supreme court's for. they have never decided this issue. maybe it's about time. >> last -- >> what is the hold up? >> last word to you paul butler. >> i can answer that. >> oh. quickly, answer it, malcolm, because i will give paul the last word. >> it's very simple, you're talking about going after the president of the united states for potentially being an asset of a foreign government and have elected to the presidency on conspiracy with that foreign government. look, when you come after the president, you take that shot, you best not miss. >> yeah. the last word to you on this,

paul, that is the question for a lot of americans who have been following this with us for all these years, is do -- does mueller have to indict trump in order to put the procedure coda at the end of the long symphony? >> mueller is not going to indict trump because he's going to follow the doj employee handbook but he has leverage over the president in terms of donald trump, jr. we've seen mueller use people's kids to get to folks in the past. he could do this with donald trump, jr. trump jr. went into the senate intelligence committee took an oath to tell the truth and lied his butt off. >> you think he will get indicted. >> if roger stone and michael cohen get indicted for lying to the intelligence committee and donald jr. lied he gets indicted too. >> this is one of our favorite trios. we will have you back. welcome back, we've missed you very much. >> missed you too. >> thank you, paul butler and see ma and malcolm nance.

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the democratic governor of virginia ralph northam is not resigning after a photo from his medical school yearbook surfaced yesterday. a photo under his name showing one person in blackface and one in a kkk hood. northam initially apologized but now reportedly calling democrats in virginia and denying it's him in the photo. he is scheduled to make an announcement to the press at 2:30 eastern this afternoon. his spokesperson tells nbc news he will not resign during that statement. we will have the latest when we come back. come back. would you want the one the experts at rootmetrics say is number one in the nation? sure, they probably know what they're talking about. or the one that j.d. power says is highest in network quality by people who use it every day? this is a tough one. well, not really, because verizon won both. so you don't even have to choose. why didn't you just lead with that? it's like a fun thing. (vo) chosen by experts. chosen by you. get 50 million songs now with apple music included, on us. on both ios and android. it's the unlimited plan you need

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we assess that foreign actors will view the 2020 u.s. elections as an opportunity to advance their interests. we expect them to refine their capabilities and add new tactics as they learn from each other's experiences and efforts in previous elections. we expect russia will continue to wage its information war against democracies and use social media to attempt to divide our societies. >> the nation's intelligence chiefs say that russia still poses a real threat to u.s. elections, especially on social media. the 2020 race heating up i wanted to bring in a panel of experts to explain how to protect yourself from fraudulent activity on your social media accounts. in other words, how to spot a bot. joining me is adam slev vin, founder of cyber scout and

shahrene mitchell and democratic strategist simon rosenberg. a shorter segment we planned because we had so much breaking news. but i want to come to you first on this adam, mike favre, people should follow on twitter, talks about this stuff and wrote something, i'm worried, we've never seen the proliferation of bots like now, especially now that they've morphed into a less identifiable bot. something is up. we need to be very cautious. one more quick thing before i let you get in, the fbi director said the following about the russia threat on social media. >> the assessment that this country's adversaries continue to use u.s. social media platforms as a vehicle for weaponizing disinformation and spreading foreign influence in the united states? director wray? >> yes, that's certainly the fbi's assessment not only of the russians continuing to do it in 2018, but we've seen indication that they're continuing to adapt their model and that other

countries are taking a very interested eye in that approach. >> so if, in fact, it is already ramping up, what can people do if they're worried? >> well, they should be able to spot them. the first thing if you see a lot of hyperactivity, seeing 50, 60, 70 tweets a day and you can look at the date they started and then where you are now and if it's more than let's say 18, 19,000 tweets a year. >> yeah. >> that's a problem. >> i mean, normally what people are trained to know is that a twitter handle, for instance, with a lot of numbers after it is probably a bot. >> yep. >> but they're morphing and not -- they're not always that way. some of them seem like a human. how can you tell the difference? >> they seem like a human and look at the avatar. if it's an egg that's issue number one. >> yep. >> if it's a very attractive human being, you might want to sort of copy it and then put it in a google search and you might find out that it's a german super model, not a lady from down the street. >> right. >> and the question i've asked you this before, mike favre, the

other thing he tweeted, a tweet thread on this, be cautious with new followers. we do the follow back friday and other things where you take everyone that follow you and you follow them back. a flood of old accounts going back to 2008 and 2009 showing up in large numbers and have few tweets, most follow large amounts of verified accounts an they're following us one after the other. if you see somebody that you think is a person, you follow them or they follow you, they appear to be a human but they don't -- they have a gap as adam said in the times they've tweeted and they tweet you should you respond to them? >> generally no. off the bat, you should stay back and sort of watch their engagement, how many times they're tweeting, what they're tweeting about and even the top ibs in particular. a lot of the ones pretending to be black people or black women in particular focusing on black identity have these sort of aspects in the ways that they're talking about language. if we saw the other day there

was an account that was supposed to be for blacks supporting howard schultz. that account was eventually pulled down but that was a prime example of someone trying to mimic support from the black community for a particular candidate. so these kinds of things that are happening at this moment we have to pay a little more close attention to it because there is nuance. there are identifying factors. from the black identity framework a new sort of hash tag and/or identity that's in their bios called ados or dos, which is standing for dissendents of slaves, the indication they are someone who was born as a descendent in the united states who's representing black america and has the vernacular in the language that people would believe is someone who is a part of our community either debating about kamala or booker and

trying to say we know who is the most -- who is black in america and making sure they are sort of talking in this vernacular that makes it look like they are in support -- >> black american. >> yeah. >> i mean, i did see a huge uptick in bot activity when it came to -- when kamala harris announced. dropped like a bomb and happened quickly and she was accused of being not really black. >> not really black. and that kept going. you could see that happening. actually, there was an uptick of those bots just before she was about to announce. they were preparing for her announcement. >> yeah. so simon, this has become a challenge particularly for the democratic candidate because, obviously, in 2016 all this activity was directed to help donald trump or to hurt hillary clinton to do both. i'm wondering if this time the party is going to be a little bit more prepared? >> well, we have to be. there are some things that we learned from what we did at the dccc in 2018 that need to be brought into the democratic

presidential primary field and it's two things in particular. one is, that i think the candidates should commit to a pledge, they should commit together to not use these elicit tactics in their own campaigns, bots, troll farms, fake accounts, right, hack materials. we should have declared an arms race over on this stuff and make sure we aren't using these same tactics that were used against us against one another. the second thing is the campaigns and the dnc will have to set up disinformation operations. we ran a an extensive disinformation operation. we did take downs on twitter, facebook and youtube and showed you can control this environment. we're to the powerless. i think the dnc and the candidates will have to come together in the coming months and commit to a common approach. i know that the state parties and some of the presidentials are already talking about this and i'm optimistic we're going to be able to do this. >> i wish we had more time. we had a lot of breaking news. for our audience and we'll put this up on-line as well on social media as well, if you see multiple languages being used,

url shorteners, short urls, suspicious images, hyper activity, unlikely popularity, block, don't reply. yeah. >> absolutely. >> block, don't reply. >> yes. >> we'll have you guys back to talk more about this. >> good job, joy. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up the latest on the virginia governor's yearbook photo scandal. junior achievement reaches young people all over the world to prepare them for the future of work. we go into classrooms and we teach entrepreneurial skills and leadership skills. when you actually create a business when you're in your teens, it raises your self-confidence. junior achievement is really unique because they inspire young people to think creatively. the citi foundation's pathways to progress initiative helped us reach kids in over 50 countries. citi has also loaned us their executives and their employees to help us deliver our programs.

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democratic virginia govern ir ralph northam will not resign over the racist photo in his medical school yearbook. the governor telling democrats in the state he doesn't think it's him in the picture even though he took responsibility for the photo yesterday. northam is expected to speak to reporters later this afternoon. back with me mark thompson and joining the conversation, jonathan wilson hardgrove, author of "reconstructing the gospel." thank you for being flexible. we booked you to talk about this idea that donald trump was sent by god which was picked up this week when his spokesperson said he was on a mission from god. i think it's still important to have you here because there's a thing that's going on right now where we're relitigating our past, the slave era past and the jim crow past, through pictures.

>> yeah. >> you talk a lot about the fact that is interwoven even into our religion and we haven't been able to shed that slave holding past and as much as we want to ignore it we can't let it go. what has been your watching this unfold in virginia? >> well, it's virginia, right? so this is the 400th anniversary of enslaved africans coming, being brought to virginia. and as i see this you know now widespread call for his resignation, i want to focus on you know, the bigger issue. we often when we talk about racism and a racist past want to point at bad actors and say if we can get rid of this person, that person, we can move on. these are systemic issues. if we're going to talk about how people in power are still propping up systems of white supremacy, let's talk about the policies that are perpetuating mass incarceration, the policies

that are literally separating families in this country based on a racist notion that this is a white country. >> and so ken, and i think it's an important point because bishop barber was saying if you are condemning the photo but not condemning caging children and taking away health care and not allowing people to vote based on race, if you're not condemning those too, the condemnation of the photo rings hollow. that was his thought. what is yours? >> that's right. this is fundamentally i think about shifting the moral narrative in our country, right? for 40 years now, we've allowed a very narrow definition of what's moral. it's about this sort of personal actions. have you ever used the "n" word or have you ever you know, had some sort of sexual infidelity. the moral issues that the bible is concerned about is how we as a people treat the poor, how we treat the immigrant, how we

treat people who are marginalized and excluded. those are biblical values. as a preacher, i want to talk about how slave holder religion has manipulated the way we understand biblical values in our public life and that this is an opportunity for us to say if we're going to reject that legacy, let's focus on the values that are at the heart of scripture and our moral moral traditions. >> we were talking about this on the break. we had an election in which the candidate for u.s. senate in mississippi talked about going to a front row of a lynching, of a hanging is the way it was put where you had monkeys used. pretty overt racist imagery and thought and speech used very successfully because it works. we're back here again and can't get past here. is it because we haven't talked about it? we can't seem to have a real conversation in this country about race? there are folks posing in front of confederate flags. >> that's right. >> back when this photo was taken, i was watching the "dukes

of hazzard" with the general lee. big old could be federate flag on the car. there's a lot here. >> yeah, there wasn't anything else on tv either in a lot of ways. but you're right. it rings hollow if we continue to be reactionary to the little things, the coded language, the words, photographs is through true. i would agree with both my fellow clergy. we've got to deal with policy, as well and the larger picture. you know, the republican party defended the confederate flag but after the charleston church, then it became popular to step away from the confederate flag. the policy never changed in terms of how it impacts their policies impact disproportionately negatively african-americans and other people of color. god knows this doggone wall is a very racist argument. it's not focused or discussed or reported in that way. it's just a wall.

there's a lot more to it. we must have a discussion about race and what better time to have it than during black history month. john said also this being the 400th year since our first ancestors arrived on these stores. if anytime for a conversation, it's now. >> a full conversation. >> absolutely. so as a pastor, as a pastor, how do you deal with something like this photo controversy in your sermon? how do you talk about it? >> john? >> oh, well, i would say i would say we need to preach the truth about how not only has slave holder practices been part of our systemic history in this country, part of our law, it's also been part of our religion. right? and so until we get over the way that the salvation of the individual soul has been

separated from public justice, the church isn't going to be able to fulfill its calling. so i'll be preaching about that on sunday. i know marking will, too. >> and mark just handed me his -- i'm going to read off the fact the dean of the virginia delegation, bobby scott, has said the following, the facts were fairly straightforward last night. so let's see if there's any new facts stopping just short for northam to resign. does he surviving this controversy? >> it depends. he said it was him. if it wasn't him, he should have said it wasn't him. and now he claims he can't remember which also raises some questions. >> on his page. we know it was on his -- >> you knew what was going on, who you were hanging out with. i don't understand what new facts there could be. was the page doctored? i don't put anything past. we did a whole thing on -- put anything past. he should have said that in the front. there's new information anybody would be willing to hear. >> if he doesn't, how does this

impact the 2020 race. virginia is a key state for democrats. will he be the guy no democrat will campaign with. >> it's worse. they will be able to say the democrats are no different the russian bots can exploit that with the african-american base. he needs to understand that as you and i were saying earlier, he can't -- he's a physician. but he can't do a self-examination, self-diagnosis and self-treatment before the public. there's a lot to this. whatever is going on, whether it was him or somebody else or he doesn't remember what it was, we can't afford to have that aired out in public highway he's still the governor. it hurts everyone. >> and jonathan wilson who i hart grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. d pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend - who i

hart grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. hart grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. hart grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. hart grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. hart grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. hart grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. hart grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. hart grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. grove, pastor mark and pastor john, thank you both. have a great weekend. pastor john, thank you brtrk, ve toth