seriously and basically say this is not a hoax. i lived firsthand through this and i know for a fact that it's true. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalie morales. thanks for watching. good morning. i'm phillip mena, msnbc headquarters in new york. msnbc is live. first came the revision, then the retraction. virginia's governor refusing to step down because of a yearbook photo and then admitting to memories of his past. >> this was a yearbook photo with my face and my name. it was not me. >> he does not understand the implications of blackface. >> i think the governor needs to go.

right now it's embarrassment. on a collision course, the president, nancy pelosi, the wall and a shutdown. something has to give as the clock ticks down. we'll tell you the likely scenarios. and it is super bowl sunday. this hour the expectations of the big game and the controversy surrounding the half-time show. new details this morning on the controversy over virginia governor ralph northam. nearly the entire democratic establishment now urging him to step down, but he's refusing, insisting yesterday he was not either person in this racist photograph from his 1984 yearbook page. a stunning reversal after initially saying friday that it was him in the photo that sparked a national uproar. then he said in 1984 he did blacken his face to impersonate michael in a dance contest. >> i did dress up as -- what's

his name? michael, excuse me. that's why i have pam with me. i had shoe polish, some gloves, and the reason i used only a little bit, i don't know if anybody has tried it, but you cannot get shoe polish off. it was a dance contest. i had always liked michael. i actually won the contest because i learned how to do the moonwalk. >> after that press conference, the three most senior democrats called for his resignation, saying they no longer believed northam can act as effective governor. justin fairfax will become the fifth black governor of virginia. he said, as someone whose great-grandfath

great-grandfather was enslaved in virginia, this episode strikes particularly close to me. >> we're on this really reflective moment of this history in virginia, and we need to rise to the ladies of our nature. >> president trump also weighed in yesterday, criticizing northam's stand on abortion. nbc's chris bennett is in richmond with more. virginia governor ralph northam says it wasn't him in that racist photo from his medford yearbook. >> i am not the person in this photo. >> you're saying you had no knowledge of this photo? >> that's right. i was in med school doing rotations throughout the state.

>> it was a reversal for the virginia democrat who less than 24 hours ago, apologized for appearing in the photo. >> that photo and the racism that it represents does not represent who i am today. i'm deeply sorry. >> he said in 1984 he won a dance contest where he wore dark shoe polish on his face as part of a michael costume. >> i didn't personally find it as unacceptable at that time. i have learned since, in talking to my friend seth. the picture in the yearbook with the black facing and the member of the kkk is just horrific. >> resign! resign! resign! >> despite northam's defiance, a long list of people now calling for him to step down. virginia's black caucus, the state's democratic party, democratic candidates for president, and the democratic

national committee. if northam were to leave office, 39-year-old lieutenant governor justin fairfax would become the second black governor in virginia's history. and in a statement, the lieutenant governor says he's glad northam apologized, but he stopped short of calling for the governor to step down. governor northam says he'll revisit his decision to stay in office if he feels he's no longer able to effectively govern. phillip? >> kelly o'donnell is near west palm beach where northam spent the weekend. kelly, what did he have to say? >> reporter: we are fixed on west virginia waiting to see what will happen. the president was a bystander for a while when particularly democrats were asking him to resign. later the president put out two

tweets that gives a sense of how he assesses this. he talks about the republican challen challen challenger who was in the gubernatorial election with northam. he refers to that republican ed gillespie, saying he ran for the great state of virginia juagain ralph northam must now be thinking malpractice and dereliction of duty with regard to his opposition research staff. they look to the candidate himself for the kind of material that can be used to impeach or challenge the capability of a candidate. apparently that didn't happen in the races for public office that northam has had. the president also tweets, governor ralph northam of west

virginia said, i believe i am not either of the people in that photo. this is 24 hours after apologizing for appearing in the picture and after making the most horrible statement on super late-term abortion. unforgivable, with an exclamation point, said the president. northam already had been having a difficult week with a challenge whether, after birth, abortion could take place in west virginia. certainly one of the hot button issues anywhere in politics, and he was already the target of conservatives because of that position. the president often has, in issues of scandal and other sorts of public officials where candidates have said if they denied it, the president would typically stand beside that person or at least give them some room. here we see the president not calling for him to resign but pointing out the contradiction of northam who had acknowledged the photo without saying which person in the picture he was, but that first wave of his

comment on it did indicate he was pictured on the page that did represent him in the yearbook from 1984. the president seizing on that, but northam now says it wasn't him. so the president has typically given some room when candidates say, i didn't do it. i'm thinking of roy moore as one example who was accused in alabama of inappropriate relationships with teenage girls, and he was a candidate for office. we've seen it in other instances, too. in this way we've also seen other members of the trump family commenting on northam, the president's campaign reelection manager bob paskall has measured in on this, but now the president himself weighing in. notably criticizing opposition research for not finding the photo. phillip? >> kelly, thank you. joining us now is the executive director of the truman project. he worked in multiple national security positions during the obama administration, and he lives in virginia. sir, i want to get your reaction

to governor northam saying he darkened his face for a dance coast. it doesn't really help his case for staying in office, does it? >> thank you. i think the governor needs to stop making it about him. he needs to stop thinking about his constituents and the residents of west virginia. we have a terrific leader in justin fairfax. a mutual friend introduced us and we had a fantastic rapport. but the lieutenant governor is the right champion right now to help be able to heal virginia after these wounds. i was a true believer in governor northam. i believed in him in the primaries and beyond, so it breaks my heart that this is something we have to deal with. the governor needs to resign. i think the leaders of the governmental party have stepped up, senator cain, senator

warner, the president himself who has stepped up and said this is something that will not be tolerated. >> say he does stay. how effective could he possibly be given this controversy? >> you can't build coalitions in this situation. when you're the governor, you represent the interests of all people, and in this instance, he can no longer do that. and we've already seen the backlash from a variety of groups who attest to that fact. if he truly cares about service, which i do believe he does, i think his heart fire loor a lon has been in the right place, but i'm absolutely befuddled that in 35 years he didn't believe he needed to address this, and this has been a problem with his class in med school. when you look at other pictures in the yearbook and you see other people in blackface. and that it's okay for him to do

michael in blackface for a dance contest, but this person in blackface and the kkk is mind-boggling. >> we want to talk to the people who published this photo in 1984. >> while i did not appear in this photo, i am not surprised by its appearance in the yearbook. at the place and time i grew up, many actions that we recognize as abhorrent today were commonplace. >> any comment on the validity of the that's the way it was comment? >> my parents grew up in the segregated south, and i can tell you, 1984 and before that, we knew better. everybody in this situation knew that was racist what they were putting forth, and for the

governor to say that this was a part of the culture just doesn't resonate with me. he needs to come out and he needs to say, look, i know how horrible this is. i know it was wrong. i have done everything i can and will continue to do everything i can to alleviate this issue and to rebuild trust from the community that i have damaged, i have egregiously damaged, but i will do so outside of service to this state and he will resign. he needs to resign. he should not look for forgiveness in this position on the taxpayer's dime. he should do so outside the community and allow the community to rebuild and heal under leadership of justin fairfax. >> and when you mentioned mr. fairfax, virginia's lieutenant governor there, when he was sworn in, he carried with him the documents that freed his great-great-great grandfather from slavery. can you tell us the significance if he were to become virginia's

second african-american governor ever? >> i can attest to the fact that representation means the world to a young generation of color, and women as well as we see more individuals running for office that have taken these types of positions. i, too, am the descendant of slaves, and it warmed my heart. it shows an entire generation that they're capable of doing anything and capable of being anything, much in the way we saw of president obama becoming the commander in chief of this country. so it means a great deal to someone who has this type of background, someone who has these experiences, who can relate to the issues today. given what we've seen in this country, given what we know in the trump administration has pushed forward, given what we've seen in charlottesville, west virginia, it's important to have a leader that can espouse the type of values that we know, we live by, and are part of the culture in the virginia

commonwealth. >> thank you for joining us so early on this sunday. >> glad to be here. confrontation at the capitol or an attempt to heal old wounds? coming up, the anticipation of what president trump will say at tuesday's state of the union address. and just who might you be? but a gecko - he can be trusted. i ask you if you want to save hundreds on car insurance. and you're like, yes thank you, mind babysitting my kids? i'm like, of course i'll sit with the kids. you're like a brother to me. geico.com. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

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what will they fight for? can they be trusted what to say? everything else is noise and trusting. there will be an awful lot of noise in the next 22 months. we're committed to try to turn down the din and get answers about what matters. i think it's unification. we have had some incredible

reporti support and we've had incredible republican support. i really think it's going to be a speech that will cover a lot of territory, but part of it will be unity. >> president trump there on what to expect from his state of the union address on tuesday. it comes amid the looming government shutdown. the deadline is february 15th but an agreement must be reached beforehand. my panel is with me. good morning. what is the likelihood here before the government shutdown. have negotiators made any inroads here? >> they made a little progress, and the good news is there are a lot of deal makers on this committee, so despite trump's attacks, i think they're likely to come to some sort of agreement. they don't want to see another government shutdown. and there is a deal to be had. you can add a lot of border security money, hire new agents, have more technology without actually building the wall that

trump wants and other republicans are kind of sick of. >> of these three possible outcomes here, what is the likeliest, that trump declares a national emergency, that the government shuts down again, or they reach an agreement? >> i think the most important thing to remember about president trump is despite what the expectations may be, trump ultimately does what trump wants to do, and he has given no indication here that he's willing to make a deal with the democrats. if anything, he is digging his heels in more and clinging to his core base of supporters who support building a wall. it doesn't look like there will be any deal on the horizon any time soon. >> here is one headline: donald trump to call for unity in state of the union address to democratic house. what is the expectation of those looking to him as the face of unity? >> he's expected to touch on a

number of different topics, so it's not just an immigration speech. he's going to talk about infrastructure, health care, he's going to call for an end to foreign wars, which will get a lot of applause, although some of the details members of congress are angry about. they think that the u.s. is pulling out of syria too quickly without thinking through the ramifications of letting isis run free again, and i think it's interesting how he often steps up to the plate for this type of address, but for many of his other speeches and his public statements on twitter, he does not show that he really cares about having a euan funifying m. >> in that same piece, they point out an e-mail to supporters looking for unified ideas. he says, nancy and chuck don't want me to speak, mainstream media outlets don't want me to speak, and the hollywoodie let's

don't want me to speak. >> trump has given no indication that he's interested in bridging the gap and healing old wounds with the democrats and democratic house majority, including house speaker nancy pelosi. by all attempts, this is being built as an attempt to strike a conciliatory tone, but trump has made no public indication, has put out no statements or tweets that says he's interested in working with the democrats. if anything, on thursday, he said the democrats were the party of late-term abortions and crime and high taxes and open borders. so it doesn't seem like he's very interested in reaching across the aisle. if anything, it seems like he's primarily going to be catering to his base here. >> let's talk about stacey abrams here. she'll be delivering the state of the union rebuttal. how might they use this instance to call out the president and how do democrats feel about

that? >> the democrats want to build stacey abrams up. they want to keep her in the news. they see her as a very talented future candidate as well since she lost last year, and so expect to hear, you know, the themes that democrats want to hit on to rebut president trump. she is probably going to give a message of unity and say that the fear and darkness coming out of the white house as democrats see it is not the message of the democratic party. and not very often do you see someone who is not even in congress give the rebuttal, and so that's kind of new for this go-round. >> senator, i want to talk for a moment where you talk about the president doing the enemy's job. did you get any positive responses from what trump is doing, and second, what were the big issues with the president? >> i spoke to both current and former officials about this,

from people in the cia, people in the fbi, some former nsa officials. there was not a single person who said that trump is helping the u.s. and who said trump is helping the u.s. intelligence community do a better job in protecting the country's national security. every single person i spoke to said trump is respecting morale, especially in the fbi, which was among the agencies whose workers weren't paid during the longest u.s. shutdown in history. and coming on the heels of that shutdown, we had the president publicly castigating the top u.s. intelligence chiefs. it was yet another stunning moment during which the president castigated the u.s. intelligence agencies. he adds to a growing list of examples where he seems to denigrate his own intelligence chiefs, or in some cases, side with other countries who seem to have a more hostile position

toward the u.s., for example, russia. >> and don, what did you think about those contradictions we heard this week? >> i think it's very striking, the fact he's going against his own intelligence officials who he has appointed. i had a piece a couple months ago about his diplomatic faux p pas, and in the piece i revealed how he was studying a map of south asia with national security briefers, and he mispronounced nepal and b urksb and he thought those countries were part of india. in another "time" article he was asked what the beaches were like on diego garcia. this is not a person who takes his television briefings seriously, he gets bored quite quickly, and they've really

shortened those briefings to a short length because they know his attention will wander elsewhere. >> it is troubling that the president and our intelligence community just can't seem to be on the same page here. daniel litman, sonom shath, thank you for being here. republicans asking to delay his trial. s asking to delay his trial. [knocking] ♪ ♪ memories.

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it's approaching 29 past the hour. a quick programming note. you're watching this because msnbc is now live every saturday and sunday at 6:00 eastern. so we hope you can join us. roger stone leaving after being issued another gag order in the case. he makes a stop. listen. >> on what grounds could they end your first amendment rights? >> that was the purpose for this raid, was be to poison a potential jury. the whole reason would be so i don't poison a potential jury pool, but they poisoned a potential jury pool by making"." >> the judge reminded stone and

his lawyers that the case was a criminal proceeding and not a public leelrelations campaign. what is your take that roger stone has already poisoned with his raid? >> any time there is a public, high-profile arrest, there is a pre-judgment that goes on about the defendant, and that's because the public citizens in general looks to the government as it speaks as having a degree of authority. lots of jurors mistakenly assume that because someone has been indicted, the government must know what it's doing. so roger stone's position is sympathetic. it's also sympathetic in the sense that the court may look to limit his free speech amendment rights. but on the other hand, this kind of limitation is warranted where extra judicial publicity, pre-trial publicity, could

threaten that same defendant's right to a fair trial, by either poisoning the jury pool or actually affecting the evidence in the trial. >> you wrote a very interesting article on why stone may potentially violate a gag order here. would the gag order do more damage to his case? what is he really risking here? >> it may be the case that roger stone, independent of the advice and despite the advice his attorneys have given him to follow all court orders, that he himself may decide to seizuviol any given gag order. there is already an order disseminated from information in the gag order in this case. that order already exists. the judge is considering another order from another rule that prevents the witnesses from speaking. so roger stone may make a

calculated risk here and decide, hey, it might help my case more, even if i'm violating this order, to get this information out there. after all, this is what roger stone made a career of, controlling the narrative and pushing information favorable to his position out into the public. he may just decide to take a calculated risk and risk drawing the ire of the court. >> can the judge rule on this gag order at any time, or is there a date we should be looking for here? >> the judge can do so on the court's own initiative or at request by the parties. she may do so at the next court listing. the things she'll be looking for is whether or not these judicial statements create a reasonable probability that the jury itself or the trial, the defendant's right to a fair trial, may be compromised. so if roger stone says nothing for the next few months or next few weeks, and then suddenly goes on a media blitz, well, then the court may decide to

make a decision on that gag order there and then. >> this week federal prosecutors revealed that the evidence received from the former adviser was voluminous and complex. what information should the special counsel have that should concern stone most, if any? >> this is an increasing issue in federal prosecution. when you seize computers and iphones, now the government is getting what are called terrabytes of data. one terrabyte could mean 75,000 pages of documents. obviously it's less if you have "titanic" on your hard drive, but what prosecutors have to deal with is this huge amount of data. for that reason, roger stone's case has been designated complex. that means under the federal rules that the court can expand the time in which to try the case.

normally a defendant's speedy trial clock starts right away, but this, where it's a complex case, where you have so many documents, can allow the court to exclude that time and actually extend the time in which to try the case. if the defendant's on board, it's an easier case to make. >> all right, dennis viled, thank you so much for your input this morning. coming up next, it was a curious morning at the governor's news conference, to say the least. we'll talk about his admission of michael jackson blackface, next.

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that same year, i did participate in a dance contest in san antonio in which i darkened my face as part of the a michael jackson costume. i look back now and regret that i did not understand the harmful legacy of an action like that. it is because my memory of that episode is so vivid that i truly do not believe i am in the picture in my yearbook. >> virginia governor ralph northam defying calls for his escalation which only escalated after that news conference. let's bring in spokeswoman for the virginia republican party and critic on the hill, director for henry reid when he was associate director and joe page.

joe, you were on here and spoke your mind. did anything that ralph northam said change your mind? how would you explain that press conference? >> no, it did not change my mind. i was very sorry to not see him step aside. i thought for the good of the commonwealth of west virginia, he would step aside and let the wounds begin to heal, but instead he denied that he was in the picture after initially saying he was in the picture, and then he hearkened to another incidence where he blackened his face to imitate michael jackson, one of the great superstars of our time. he doesn't understand the degree to which this hurts our community. i still stand with the naacp and others that are calling for him to step aside. >> john, northam did apologize, talking about wanting to earn forgiveness. does that sound like a last grasp to keep his job? >> he has to get the hell out of

there. that has to happen at the end of the day. his apology, fine, but first, it wasn't me becau, i didn't thinks a bad thing. he's hurting our country. he's opening wounds that are still very fresh, particularly at this moment in our history. but at the same time, you also have to think about who in the world is going to work with him? you're not going to have any republicans certainly who are going to want to work with him or any democrats who will want to work with him and will be accused of trying to prop him up and hurt him politically, so he has to go. >> talking about the michael jackson blackface photo and at the same time defending himself, what was that about? >> i have to say among public individuals, that is the most absurd thing coming out of the

mouth of elected officials, and that's not saying a lot. this is like a man saying, i didn't beat my wife last saturday because i knew it would happen to be two weekends ago that saturday. that's the most absurd thing i've ever heard. the problem for democrats and constituents of the state of virginia might be that northam refuses to vacate the office. i've looked at the statutes of the state of virginia and there is perhaps a position for recall here. it's very rare, but it's been used. i actually helped recall three elected officials in my lifetime, one being gray davis in the state of california, which got us governor schwarzenegger, and then two top officials in the state of colorado over gun control. it's not clear whether a governor, a stateofficer, can be recalled in virginia, but it's possible, and this may come down to if northam doesn't leave, the

state legislature might actually have to begin impeachment proceedings against him, and that is permitted of a statewide elected official. and the reasons for that could be dereliction of duty, improper behavior, which i think all of that falls under this category. >> and john, i want to bring you in to touch on what jen was talking about. northam has lost support of just about everyone, mark warner, congressman bobby scott, dnc chair scott perez, they are all among those who have joined in on calls for him to step down yesterday. so if pressuring him to resign does not work, what are the chances that the next step will be state impeachment proceedings? can you talk about that one? >> virginia is actually one of the states where it's very tough to recall a governor. it's one of eight states that have tough laws in terms of making it a difficult thing for citizens to do, but it is something that's possible. it's one of the reasons i point to what i said earlier, his inability to actually do the job. no one will be willing to work

with him on the legislative side, so it is going to hit that point where he may hit the inadequacy law. regardless, he's going to be out of office. whether he realizes it or not, he's going to be leaving office, and i think it's going to be through resignation, and i think it's probably going to be very soon. >> joe, let's talk about someone who is not out of office. there are comparisons being drawn between democrats and the responses to northam and republicans' responses to steve king over his past racist remarks. steve stripped of his committee assignments but still has the job. what is your thoughts on hcompa the two sides are handling this. >> i was pleased to see them strip him of his committee assignments, i thought that was a step in the right direction, but certainly if the republican party doesn't want to be branded as a party who is insensitive to

the interests of the people of color, it has to make a strong statement with people like steve king and let them know there is no place for them in the republican party. just like the calls are out right now for governor northam to step aside. >> and joe, what about the president here? >> well, the president certainly has made comments about northam. i would like to see him make a stronger comment. i would like to see him say that northam needs to step down, because i think it's important for the people of the commonwealth of virginia, whether they're democrat or republican or black or white, but certainly for african-americans, it's important for the governor at this point to step aside. and i'd like to see the president say that unequivocally. >> something he didn't do in charlottesville, he got a lot of creditism because of that. how do you reckon those two different actions here? >> i was one of the people that criticized the president when charlottesville happened in 2017. i thought his response was too little too late, and certainly

when he said there were good people on both sides, i thought that was a terrible statement. it certainly did a lot to anger our community, that is, the african-americans. i'm an african-american, and it angered african-americans around the country. and i thought it was a moment when he could have been a healer, that he could have come out and made a strong statement against white nationalists and against kkk-ers and against racists. i thought it was an opportunity missed on his part and i said so publicly on national media. >> jen, should republicans call out -- >> if i may, look, i think the president has been treated somewhat unfairly since charlottesville. the company came out and said racism is quote, unquote evil. he said the events in charlottesville were horrendous. and there was one man two days after charlottesville said this. we condemn in irresponsible

terms this theme of bigotry and racism. it has no place in america. i've said many times the color of our skin, racism is evil. those involving the kkk, neo-nazis and other hate groups, that is not too little. it may have been a little too late, but that is a pretty strong statement from president trump. so let's talk about northam as northam and hold him accountable for what he did. let's separate president trump from that. >> jen, thank you so much for that. last word, john, real quick. >> that was a nice try, but again, when you say there are good people on both sides, that's just absolutely wrong. the rhetoric that this president has used only inflames the racial tensions that we're seeing in our country. you're right, that's a separate issue, but he is a flawed messenger in this case, and he

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a live look at mercedes-benz stadium in atlanta. super bowl liii will kick off in less than 12 hours. the los angeles rams and the new england patriots will face off at 6:30 p.m. eastern time, but controversy around the nfl is not fading away. colin kaepernick's attorney, mark geragos, slammed halftime performer adam levine on friday. take a listen. >> if you're going to cross this ideological or intellectual picket line, then own it. and adam levine certainly isn't owning it. in fact, if anything, it's a cop-out when you start talking about i'm not a politician, i'm just doing the music. >> artists like cardi b and rihanna both turned down the opportunity to perform at halftime to support kneeling protesters. kaepernick has not been signed to any team since he made the decision in 2016 to kneel during the national anthem. joining me now is someone who has a ring with the new york

giants, the super bowl back in 2012, isaiah sanback, also co-founder of fitness and performance in texas. isaiah, good morning. much of the country focused on the game, some focused on the controversy surrounding the nfl and colin kaepernick. what are your thoughts on kaepernick's decisions to kneel back when he was playing football? >> i think it's a great representation of a nonviolent protest. everybody has opportunity to protest in their own way, just like martin luther king. he chose a nonviolent route and still got scrutinized for it and he's still paying a price for it now. i just came back from atlanta for a couple days tackling social injustice issues working with an organization called rise, and these are some of the things we were talking about. and i think the route which he took was perfectly fine. i felt like he used his platform and he used the environment that he had to make sure that we're, you know, that his point got across, and obviously, we're still talking about it today.

so it definitely had an impact. >> let's talk about your trip to atlanta recently. you met with the boys and girls club as well as athletes from georgia tech. what responsibility do athletes have here in terms of community outreach? what did you tell them. >> i just told them to use their platform and utilize their voice. they're in an environment where people are going to look at them and listen to what they have to say, and it's up to them as far as how they want to deliver that message, but i think that everybody has a responsibility to tackle these issues. now, in their own right. we can't expect the people to take the same route, such as kaepernick. we can't expect everybody to sit down and take a knee, but that's the route he chose, and i think everybody's entitled to their own route, but as long as we are stepping up and we're really tackling this and trying to bridge this divide, per se, i think we're doing what we need to do. >> well, those are athletes you're talking about. what about entertainers? gladys knight is going to sing the national anthem. maroon 5, travis scott, big boy, they're performing at halftime. do you think their decisions to

participate undermine kaepernick's message at all? >> i don't think so. it really comes down -- we really can't make that statement until after it's done, right? there are two ways to look at it. you can totally not participate, such as people like cardi b and some of the others that chose not to participate. that's one stand, right? that's their right. that's their choice. then you have opportunities, people like big boy, where he might use the platform, adam levine, he might use the platform of the super bowl, right, the biggest stage in the world, to get across a message, right? maybe they choose a song that has some message, some in-depth meanings behind it. maybe they choose to use some signage during the show. we don't know, right? so, we can't make the assumption preshow to say that they're wrong for taking the opportunity. >> and i want to talk to you bi-a bit about that ad, that colin cap entkaepernick ad "bel something," the campaign. it was a nike ad, very polarizing. later this afternoon, there will

be the rams and patriots, and on their jersey will be the swish sign, nike. where do you see that company in terms of how do you reckon the fact that some people are upset about, you know, the whole kneeling situation, but yet, nike still supports the nfl in that way? we are going to see that swish on those jerseys. >> yes, that's business, you know? and big business is always going to make big business decisions. obviously, they support kaepernick. obviously, they're tied in with the nfl. you're never going to win, right? you're never going to win. they still have a business to run, but they're obviously standing firm with kaepernick. otherwise, they wouldn't be supporting him and his causes. they're obviously playing both sides, which i think that they have to. they have to take care of their business. they have to run nike. at the same time, they're standing firm in being with kaepernick on social injustice issues. i think they're pretty outspoken in regards to how they feel about that. >> interesting how they can get it kind of both ways when it comes to that. all right. you played for the giants. you also played for the patriots here, so you may be a little bit

biased. but before we go, i want your call. what do you think's going to happen later today? >> i feel as if it's going to be a great game. the rams definitely have more talent, but i feel like the maturity of the patriots is definitely going to come to fruition. i think the emotional maturity is what you guys are going to see really be the deciding factor in this game. so i think the patriots pull it out. >> you caught passes from tom brady, so you think he's going to get number six there? >> i think so. i think so. that's my guy. good guy right there. >> all right. i appreciate your time there, isaiah stanback joining us from dallas. coming up, mounting pressure against virginia's embattled governor. what would convince him to bow out? or what would convince him to bow out? hi guys, this is the chevy equinox. beautiful....wow. it offers a lot of great technology inside. oh, this is fancy. yeah, that's the available hd surround vision camera. the top of your car? it helps you see dangers around the vehicle. what is that? what the? wait wait wait... what is that? oh my god.

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all right, that will do it for me this hour. i'm phillip mena. thanks for joining me. it is time for "weekends with alex witt." >> if only people could have been eavesdropping with our conversation during the commercial, all super bowl. >> i know. it was like, rams, patriots, rams, patriots. >> you know who i'm for. >> you want to see the patriots' reign end today. >> i do, because i love the rams, they're my hometown guys. it's going to be a good game. >> todd gurley's got to play, though. >> thee, phillip. good morning to you from msnbc world headquarters. it is 7:00 in the east. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." >> resign! [ crowd chanting ] outrage in virginia and across the country after governor ralph northam