sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 24-month financing on all smart beds. only for a limited time. that does it for me today. thank you very much for watching. "a.m. joy" starts now. >> that same year i did participate in a dance contest in san antonio in which i darkened my face as part of a michael jackson costume. i look back now and regret that i did not understand the harmful

legacy of an action like that. i had the shoes, a glove and i used just a little bit of shoe polish to put on my cheeks. the reason i used a very little bit is because i don't know if anybody has tried that but you cannot get shoe polish off. it was a dance contest. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." we have a lot to get to including new information about donald trump's quest for cash from deutsche bank during the 2016 campaign and new reports showing the sheer magnitude of the trump administration's policy of taking children from their migrant parents at the southern border. we start this morning with the latest on the situation in virginia where the democratic governor ralph northam held a lengthy and bizarre press conference in which he rejected calls to resign his office. he was narrowly prevented by his wife from performing the moonwalk. northam now denies being in the now infamous yearbook photo

depicting a person in blackface and someone dressed as the klan. he admits to wearing blackface to portray michael jackson in 1984, that same year. northam is facing calls to resign from members of his own party now including both democratic senators from the state, former secretary of state and presidential candidate hillary clinton and former governor doug wilder, virginia's first black governor. let's bring in la mont bagby, a virginia state delegate and chair of the black legislative caucus. e.j. dion "the washington post," tiffany cross of the beat d.c. and jason johnson of the root.com and an msnbc contributor. i want to go to a dedelegate ba first. the legislative congress met

with northam and after that your caucus decided he ought to resign. walk us through that a little bit. >> one more time, i'm sorry. >> our understanding is the legislative black caucus of virginia met with the governor. there was a decision he ought to resign. walk us through that a little bit. >> yes, friday was a tough day. i gave a floor speech, speaking on some of the things we had been challenged with in the last 48 hours. you have heard, joy, that the black caucus has no permanent enemy, no permanent friends, just permanent interests. we talked about a number of things. two hours after my floor speech that was challenged. we had to go to our friend ralph northam, myself and ten of my colleagues from the virginia legislative black caucus met with the governor, had a frank conversation to talk to him directly and tell him how

disappointed and betrayed they felt. at that point, the governor also had an opportunity to tell us some things and let us know if anything else was out there. at that point we decided to go back after we prayed. we decided to go back, caucus and talk about our next action. we concluded that the course of action we had to take, although uncomfortable, was to go back to the governor and ask for his resignation. >> mr. bagby, if i can stick with you for a moment, were you surprised by the press conference that the governor gave in which he took back his previous statement that he was in that photo and then added that he had done blackface that same year regarding michael jackson? were you surprised he didn't resign? >> joy, i was surprised and disappointed. i could not believe what was happening. i think the governor missed a real opportunity to resign

gracefully. he still has an opportunity. he has an opportunity to help those that are hurting. right now the commonwealth is hurting. the best way to begin the healing process is for the governor to resign and allow us to turn the corner. >> let me go to jason johnson who's doing reporting on this. when we started the show yesterday, doug wilder, the former governor of virginia was saying it was up to the governor, governor northam what he was going to do. both senators from virginia were giving him space. that changed. something materially changed after the press conference. now the chorus includes hillary clinton, the former candidate for president and secretary of state. it includes the dnc chair tom perez. it's really a tidal wave. to what you attribute in your reporting northam still hanging on when it's just overwhelming, the calls for him to resign. >> it's got to be arrogance.

i had the opportunity, a 30-minute conversation with justin fairfax off and on the record. like a lot of other democrats in virginia, he's disappointed. no one is happy about this. there is no shanything about th. their general belief having had the conversation is it's very difficult for governor northam to continue to run the state when his own party wants him to go. another important thing to remember is, yes, he doesn't want to resign. he wants to fight. there is no one who can save northam at this point. the press conference was his own fault. there is no group of black pastors who can put a hand on his shoulder and say we forgive him. lieutenant governor fairfax can't cradle him like steven in jang "django" and say i'll protect

you. >> perez came out with a statement. he doesn't normally jump into the state level political fights. he wrote, his past actions are completely antithetical to everything the party stands for. virginians and people deserve better from leaders. it's clear northam lost their trust and his ability to govern. time to let justin fairfax serve virginia virginians. virginia is an important state to democrats, a blue trending state. does this wind up becoming an issue, to be blunt, for 2020? i'm hearing people counting up the tally of which potential and declared presidential candidates have said something and who have not. >> i suspect every presidential democratic candidate will call on him to resign if they haven't already. you have to start with the picture itself which was just a shock to people. it was a double punch of racism. it was the blackface and the

klansmen. everybody who looked at that or virtually everybody had a sense of shock. then you have to look at the history of the modern democratic party. from jfk and lbj forward the democratic party has become the party of equal rights, civil rights and african-american empowerment. most african-american elected officials are democrats. the party would look totally hypocritical. that's why tom perez stepped in, other democrats are speaking. they would look totally hypocritical having criticized trump on this. having criticized steve king's racism not to jump on this. was there a path for governor northam? maybe if at the outset he had really come out in a heartfelt way with a parable of conversion and redemption and owned the past. maybe this would have helped him out of it. in the end, i don't think it was

survivable. just back to the shock you felt when you saw the picture. i think democrats feel he'll go because yes, he'll get in the way of the next election. he'll get in the way of the democrats' argument about equal rights. >> that was the argument made about the al franken photo when that came out. kirsten gillibrand and others said it makes it hard to argue about donald trump and being accused 19 times of sexual misconduct if they have somebody in the party. she received a lot of backlash, but that was the argument made. on this case for the democratic party, virginia has the ninth largest black population in the united states of all of the states. it is entirely dependent -- the democratic party is very dependent upon african-americans as is the party writ large. i wonder if the fact that justin fairfax barely underperformed northam.

he's just as viable, to be blunt, as a state-wide candidate. if those factors, the large african-american population and fairfax's separate public viability make this hard for northam to survive. >> yesterday before this press conference the general sentiment was ralph northam needs to resign. after that press conference the general sentiment is would you get the hell out of here already? this has gotten increasingly ridiculous with things he said. i want to respectfully disagree with my fellow panelists. i hear what e.j. is saying. however, i was not shocked. i bet a lot of other people weren't shocked. i want to disagree with delegate bagby. i wasn't hurt and i'll bet others weren't hurt. this is something i think a lot of people maybe expected. it's virginia, a bible belt state with a long, ugly history of racism. i think a lot of us experienced the, quote/unquote, allies who have issues with white

supremacy. there is another example of the casual racism we see that can come back to haunt you. these decisions have consequences. to your point about the 9% of the electorate who is african-american, such is true across the country. the path to political leadership must go through the black community. if ralph northam desires to serve, he can serve by stepping down and following. giving that opportunity to justin fairfax. there's also a deeper issue here, joy, that i think we have to address. that's not the political issues but the policy around some of the things we see happening. we can all engage in this temporary outrage. i don't want us to do it without addressing some of the systemic issues. yes, there is a picture of him in a klan uniform and issues that perm naeate industries. this was a medical school book. he was not the only person in blackface, if it's him. there was another person in a

klan outfit, another person in blackface dressed up as diana ross. when you look at it and think about how black people are treated in hospitals. when you look at studies. there was a study at the university of virginia that addressed how black patients were not prescribed medications because they felt -- they believed awful stereotypes that black people didn't feel pain. medical students felt this way. in 2016 they felt black people didn't feel pain the same as white people did. "a.m. joy" is the best show because we can have a deep examination of these things. the issue is bigger than ralph northam doing something racist. he didn't address him being called coonman. you don't have to play ignorant, fain ignorance that you don't know why people called you that. we know why. there is a lot of information here. >> you wrote a piece that there is no argument for ralph northam

to keep his job. very few people that are african-american that i know were shocked. the idea that african-americans are mocked is no more shocking than the mockery we saw indigenous people subjected to. they are subjected to being mascots, et cetera. african-americans, unfortunately, that's part of the history. in this case, was there at some point between when this broke and this press conference yesterday, it's hard to imagine. you seem to say, no, there was no point at which he could have made a turn that would have allowed him to address the issues. >> no. the left turn at blaurk, albuqu when his magic black friend seth in 2017 told him, hey, this is offensive. if he wanted to have a viable path at that point what he needed to do once seth woke him up was to come out and put himself in front of the voters of virginia and say, hey, this

is what i did. i didn't know until seth told me that this was a bad thing. now that i know, i'm presenting myself for you to judge me before you vote for me. that was his path out. when he didn't take the path. when he kept hiding it, hoping nobody would figure out his shoe polish, what was in his closet, that's when he lost his moral authority to govern. this is the thing. it's not on -- i appreciate state senator bagby right now and justin fairfax, governor wilder. but it is not on african-americans to push this man out the door. he should have the honor and dignity to leave. it is 2019. we have way more important things to be talking about than explaining to white people why blackface is a problem. i never paint my face. i went as bowzer one year. i didn't paint my face green.

i went as barack obama one year. i didn't paint my face half white. he needs to take the honorable way out and resign. >> i want to bring one more issue back in. i know e.j. wants to jump in. la mont, i know this also began as an issue about abortion. there is a lot going on here. apparently there were physical threats and security concerns for another member of your state government over that. and that's where this began if people can believe that. can you address it quickly, that aspect of it? >> the speculation is that this is a result of the argument that ralph northam made as it relates to a woman having the right to choose. we have had -- it's been very intense. we are in the middle of session. on tuesday is crossover where the house members send their

bills up to the senate and vice versa. we are in the middle of a debate over taxes and conformity which will really impact those living under or just above the poverty line. it really focuses on earned income tax credits. that's a lot of work to be done really in the next 48 hours before crossover. >> right. >> so the woman's right to choose piece was the part that i think turned those individuals that may have known ralph northam a time ago and were disappointed to see he was choosing to fight the battle in the fashion that they opposed. >> i see. maybe the origins of this were that people who might have known about it, that makes sense. i know you had a thought, e.j. hold it until you're back later in the show. coming up, a 2016 bombshell you have to hear to believe. that's next. you have to hear to believe. that's next. [cell phone rings]

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comcast business. beyond fast. the reviews have been phenomenal. the reviews of the hotel have been great. i didn't even put a mortgage on it. no debt, no financing. i don't want to have financing on turnberry because it's so special. i did this out of cash flow. we have an absolutely zero debt

property. i think it's something that will be a great tribute to scotland. >> in june of 2016 then candidate donald trump traveled to turnberry, scotland for the re-opening of his refurbished golf resort. paying for the renovations may not have been so easy for the purported billionaire. yesterday the "new york times" released a stunning report that during the 2016 campaign donald trump sought a loan from deutsche bank in part to help pay for work on the golf property in turnberry. deutsche bank said no. prior to trump's 2016 run deutsche bank was his lender of last resort, lending trump and his companies more than $2.5 billion. this time things were different. according to three people formula with the request, the times writes, senior officials at the bank, including its future chief executive, believed that mr. trump's divisive candidacy made such a loan too risky. among their concerns was if mr.

trump won the election and then defaulted deutsche bank would have to choose between not collecting on the debt or seizing the assets of the president of the united states. a trump organization spokeswoman denied the company needed outside funding for turnberry calling the times story absolutely false. she didn't specifically address whether trump organization had asked deutsche bank for a loan. joining me now jill winebanks, former watergate special prosecutor and cynthia oxley. let me read more of the "new york times" story. it says around the time mr. trump was winning new hampshire, south carolina, and nevada officials in the private banking unit of deutsche bank informed superiors they were inclined to provide the loan. senior executives in new york

balked arguing that mr. trump's candidacy made such a loan unacceptably risky for the reasons i just stated. cynthia, is it illegal for a presidential candidate to actively seek a bank loan from an international bank while running for president? >> i don't think it is illegal. but in a perfect world we would all know that because of the tax returns. the greatest part of the article, let me say, is deutsche bank was worried about their reputation with being involved. i mean, come on. deutsche bank's reputation is in the gutter and they were worried about being associated with donald trump. that gave me a giggle. >> let me read the trump organization spokesman's comments. we bought turnberry without any financing and put tens of millions of dollars of our own money into the renovation.

at no time was money needed for turnber i are. adam schiff, what he said to cynthia's point about deutsche bank and why this lender would have been of concern. >> the concern about deutsche bank is they paid hundreds of millions in fines to the state of new york for laundering russian money. this apparently was the one bank that was willing to do business with the trump organization. is that a coincidence? what do we make of what the president's sons have reported of not dealing with u.s. banks because they got cash they needed from russia or a disproportionate share of assets coming from russia. if this is a form of compromise it needs to be exposed. >> adam schiff and congressman maxine waters who is the financial services committee conducting a joint investigation of deutsche bank.

specifying one reason donald trump reportedly went to deutsche bank for money is he defaulted on the loans he got from other banks or most of them. and other banks refused to lend him money because he wouldn't pay them back. if he went to deutsche bank because he had no other choice does that mitigate against the idea that he may have gone to them because of a russia connection? >> it doesn't mitigate against it. it shows us what we are missing by not having full transparency to his financial dealings. that is the number of bankruptcies, the number of defaults, the amount of money that banks have lost. he could not borrow in america because they had lost too much money at american banks. so they had turned away from him. he had no choice but to turn to banks like deutsche bank which is currently in such bad financial straits that the german government is trying to force it to merge with commerce bank, another state-owned bank,

to protect everybody in germany because it is in such bad shape. according to what i'm reading they have maybe 60 days to turn it around or they will be forced to merge. that's the kind of place donald trump had to go for money. i think that's something that the american people were missing when they were voting. he was claiming he was this great businessman. he wasn't a great businessman. he lived on debt. so that's what we need to know about them. they also, deutsche bank, were part of the libor scandal. they have a bad history. yet, they were the bank of last resort. it doesn't matter whether the money was coming from russia -- well, it matters. i would like to know that. even if it wasn't, it does tell us something and is worth looking at on its own. >> cynthia, from a prosecutor point of view, the case that malcolm nance and others make about donald trump's involvement in russia is russia looks for

people who have a combination of need and greed. they can find people at a pressure point they can use to get at them. with donald trump one of those pressure points is debt and he was in need of money and also his vanity in wanting to build a trump tower in moscow. during the campaign we learned about this from a james dodson, a golf journalist who interviewed eric trump in 2013 who told him the company's golf properties were funded by russians. eric trump has since denied making the comment. we know during the campaign donald trump borrowed money for golf properties. deutsche bank lent the trump organization more than $100 million to finance the 72-hole doral golf resort home to the famous blue monster course. and the "wall street journal" reporting trump's 2016 financial disclosure showed 16 loans from

deutsche bank, a significant portion of debt came from 2012 mortgages, one valued at more than $50 million, another $5 million and $25 million for the trump national doral. if trump needs that much money and has that much debt as a prosecutor does that become part of the trail you follow to figure out if he was in collusion with russia or conspiracy? >> of course. adam schiff made it clear he thinks he needs to look into deutsche bank for the obvious reasons you have stated. adding one more thing. the president after announcing it was a red line to go into his family finances, in the woodword book we learned when mueller subpoenaed documents from deutsche bank in november of last year, president trump went completely crazy and was screaming about it. he got called -- called his lawyer at the time in mr. dowd. mr. dowd contacted mueller's

office and they said the subpoena at the time didn't involve the president and his finances. there was a discussion at that time in the white house about should mueller be fired. it was all because he had touched this pressure point of deutsche bank. that's a red flag. deutsche bank is a problem for him. >> he's obviously not excited about people looking into it. jill, before we go, what's your pin? >> my pin is the roger stone use of the nixon victory sign -- this. it's a pin of nixon doing that and a picture of trump doing that which may be the next step after roger stone's imitation of the nixon victory. when he left the white house on marine one after resigning. >> you may have to do another roger stone one that shows his belly. when he did it the first time he showed his tummy. i don't know if anybody wanted to see it, but they saw it. you can't unsee it. >> too much information. >> thank you, ladies. have a great super bowl sunday.

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the shots. >> people in america are losing faith that this nation will work for them. they are beginning to believe that too many folks are going to get left out or left behind. >> if you are a democrat running for president in 2020 and like all of you apparently are, it is clear where you need to be to have a shot with the base. the party's general shift leftward is causing some candidates to rethink getting in. according to axios, former new york city mayor michael bloomberg and former virginia governor terry mcauliffe are having second thoughts. thank you for being here. i'll come to the table first aisha. there is a sense that the democratic party has sort of generally moved to the left

since the obama era. is that true or is it -- is the country reorienting itself? which of those things is more true? >> i don't think we can understood estimate the role bernie sanders played in the conversation we are seeing around policy on the left. the progressive policy values you see the base being excited about and taking hold of came from the conversations he was having. through that 2016 campaign there were a lot of policy ideas that rose up that are more progressive. people want more progressive values. >> medicare for all is the litmus test. you have had people perceived as centrist, kamala harris harrisee world jumping on the medicare for all bandwagon. this is where you need to be to be in the main stream of the party. does that say to a michael bloomberg or joe biden that this is going to be a tougher environment, both on health care issues and things like criminal

justice reform? >> yeah. i think like bernie sanders and that whole 2016 cycle did move people left. it did underscore the fact that more people have progressive values. the midterms have shown us that. aoc's entire base has shown us that. for the bloombergs and the bidens, they are centrists. i don't think after two years under trump where we have swung so far to the right that people want to negotiate in the center anymore. address policies that actually lift up americans and we know those are progressive policies. the fact is that health care is a center stone now because republicans have been trying to take it away for, i don't know, eight, nine years at this point. health care and medicaid for all, people are at risk under republicans. the idea that you would be a democrat now and not adopt that stance is a prickly place to be. >> can i add something briefly? >> sure. >> what we are seeing happening

in america is for so long, policy was designed to be about corporations. to really not be about the people. i think there is a real shift towards the people. if we want to talk about progressive values, we are talking about policies and ideas that are about lifting all of us up. really breaking down the structural inequalities, barriers to people being able to have the same opportunities in this country. i like to think of it as the democratic party moving and shifting toward a more people-centric tone. >> they made their slogan "for the people." let's talk about kamala harris. lara, you wrote a piece that was widely circulated in the "new york times," an op-ed taking on kamala harris saying she was not a progressive prosecutor. i will read you to yourself. time after time when progressives urged her to embrace criminal justice reforms as a district and the state attorney general ms. harris opposed them or stayed silent. she fought tooth and nail to uphold wrongful convictions

including evidence tampering, false testimony and the suppression of evidence by prosecutors. there's been pushback including people from the oakland area who are supportive of kamala harris and say this is an unfair characterization of her. why did you write the op-ed. are you saying kamala harris is disqualified from calling herself a progressive. >> i'm saying we need to compare how she's describing herself which is a progressive prosecutor to her record which is nos progressive. my op-ed was full of examples and there are more. i think when we have somebody seizing the mantle of a term that has a specific meaning to people who work in that space they need to not just talk the talk but walk the walk. my point in writing it was to point out the difference between the way she's describing herself and the decisions she made as first san francisco district attorney and the state attorney general. >> is there a candidate you are

supporting? >> no. i am sitting back allowing the full field to emerge. i cannot tell you how thrilled i am to see how diverse it is already. we still don't know the extent of the number of people who will jump into the race. it would be a mistake to latch onto one candidate with the idea they'll glide to a coronation which we went through in 2016 to very bad effect. >> let me ask you ladies at the table. the attacks on kamala harris over her criminal justice record has been one pot of opposition to her. i will start with you, aisha. do you think the attacks are fair? >> examining anybody's record is fair. that's absolutely fair. here's my perspective. i don't immediately jump to wanting to hate the player. i hate the game. the truth is in the role she was in as prosecutor there were already structural -- a structural system she was trying to work within. the conversations i appreciate that are happening, she has to

account for her record. moving forward most of the candidates in the race are saying we need to fix the system. the system is broken. that's a tone i think is what's going to matter to voters at the end of the day beyond what she did. it's her reckoning around it and her saying this is what we can do to fix the system moving forward. >> i would rather have that conversation than people arguing about her blackness. >> i think it is important for us to be having a policy conversation about the work she's done rather than talking about her as a woman candidate, a black candidate, this first candidate or what have you. the reality is i think it is a problem for her to call herself a progressive prosecutor. one, i don't think those exist really. i think they're like unicorns. the reality is she needs to stand on what she did and say as president she's going to make these changes beyond the first step act that was passed by the bipartisan bill passed a few months ago, that she's going to

move beyond it and talk about the incarceration rate, how black and brown people and poverty is criminalized. and really be able to stand on her record. >> let's widen it out a little bit. i will go to you on this -- >> can i jump in, joy, and push back a little bit on that? >> sure. >> i believe there is such a thing as a progressive prosecutor. it is a term that has a very specific meaning. when you have that job you don't see your role as another brick in mass incarceration. we have so many examples of people who have run and won on insurgent platforms of reform where they don't prosecute low level felonies, don't prosecute people for marijuana. when a tainted conviction is brought to their attention, rather than stand by it and stand on technical any tall call tis and weapon niez them thize this is wrong and i will stand down. we have examples of that now and during the time harris was a prosecutor. for example, ken thompson who was the prosecutor in brooklyn from 2013 to 2016 until

unfortunately he died at 50. he exonerated 20 people. he ran on a platform of racial and social justice. >> no one is perfect because there was a lot of criticism of ken thompson who was a wonderful person. there was a rare conviction of a police officer in the shooting of a civilian. he essentially let this person not serve time. no one is perfect. >> no one is. >> right. i don't think we can say anyone is perfect or anyone is a villain based on parts of their record. i want to quickly ask about joe biden. he's not in yet. there is a thing in which he's not necessarily criticized by the same people who will criticize, say, hillary clinton or others on things like the crime bill. is it a problem for him if people start examining it? hillary clinton was first lady. >> i think it will be a problem for him. joe biden is down with black folks. we have two prolific african-americans in the race. the truth is the race is to the base to get through the primary.

there will be states that you have to go through to get african-american voters. i think there will be questions asked and that joe biden won't sit as high as he's sitting now once people in favestigate. >> everybody sits high until they run. danielle will be back in our next hour. i won't tell you why. it's a surprise. thank you very much. coming up, a story about donald trump's childhood separation policy that you need to see. that's next. that's next. lobsterfest is on at red lobster. with the most lobster dishes of the year, what'll you choose? how 'bout lobster lover's dream? more like a lobster dream come true. a butter-poached maine tail, roasted rock tail and creamy lobster linguine. or try new lobster in paradise. it's a crispy coconutty, vacation on a plate. new ultimate lobsterfest surf & turf is here, too. 'cause what's better than steak and lobster? steak and lots of lobster. so hurry in and see how you're going to lobsterfest.

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[ cries ] on tuesday, a mother from honduras was reunited from her baby in san francisco. her daughter had been in government custody for a month after being taken from her father at the u.s. border. cindy flores and her daughter were the subject of new york

report. cindy struggled to be reunited with her daughter. the trump administration admitted in court on friday that it may be impossible to reunite all separated children from their parents. 2,737 migrant children were separated from their families last year. the actual number maybe thousands more. joining me now to discuss is jose antonio vargas. jose, thank you for being here, it is always good to talk to you. your book, the most impactful part still from reading your book was the part that you talked about being separated from your mom and being alone. if you think you are older, you were a baby. the idea that anyone could have the cruelty to take a child from their mom and screaming and not

care. the callousness of this policy is so shocking. >> the chaos and the moral corruption that this administration exhibited in this case. she said that last year the american academy of pediatrics issued a statement of family separations because of psychological effects. highly stressful experiences, disrupting a child's brain architecture and affecting his/her short/long-term health. this is known as toxic stress can carry lifelong consequences for children. >> and even -- some of these children, that lifelong consequences may include never seeing their parents again.

>> that's right. when i was writing the book, the toughest part was dealing with and it has been 25 years. i am a grown man actually. >> right. >> 38 years old. and, i really don't have the language to talk about what it is like to not see my mom physically for 25 years. when i was watching a video and the mom was talking about she's so resentful. the mother saw this face, how dare you leave me or why i left. all complicated questions as we spent millions of dollars just separating kids from their parents. we are not dealing with their mental health consequences in all of this. >> the other thing in the article, hard to read but excellent. the other thing was so shocking was the cruelty of the way that the boarder agents were speakin to the mom.

this is what you get for coming into my country. they don't seem to have any feelings or emotions other than resentment that person is even in america. >> i want to understand when the president said that he ended this policy, i don't think that decision, the executive order has really touched on what's happening all across the country, border patrol agents and i.c.e. agents doing what they're supposed to be doing justifying why they did what they did. >> the trump administration filed documents that don't dispute recent reports that there may have been thousands kids separated from their families. they have no tracking system. the government can't easily find thousands of children it ripped from parents and does not think it is worth the time to locate each of them. can you believe our government is saying sorry, we took your kids, we can't find them, too

bad. >> knowing the history of this country, i can't believe it. i don't know on tuesday, the state of the union when it comes to immigrant families, the state of the union have been terror, i don't know what's going to stop it. >> yeah. >> what can we do collectively? >> i think a lot of it, for example, is campaign season. so, holding these candidates, making them accountable to policies and being specific about what they want to do. >> yeah. >> a lot of it is figuring out if there is event center in your community, do you know it is there. do you know how much money it brings in? do you know -- what can you do to stop what's happening in your own community if i.c.e. is actually there? >> i know a little secret. i know it is your birthday. >> thank you, happy birthday my friend. >> thank you for having me. >> jose antonio vargas, always a

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i never thought that i would live to see the day when you would use the world [ bleep [ bleep ] -- >> that's horrible, i would

never say that. >> you might as well have. that's what you did by putting joy in black face, you o feffen me and a lot of other decent black people. >> good morning, welcome back to "am joy." the hit show "gimme a break" aired in 1994 which happens to be a ground breaking year for american entertainment. jesse jackson mounted a campaign for president of the united states that captivated the country and snagged the delegate hall that stunned the democratic party. the victory tour starring michael jackson and his brother sets records across the u.s. and canada. it was the year after michael jackson debut the moon walk on national television and "thriller" on mtv. that was the cultural climate during ralph northam's time.

>> that same year i participated in a dance contest as part of a michael jackson costume. i look back and regret that i did not understand the harmful legacy of an action like that. >> it was a different time not least of which in the way that the public got its news. mainly from newspapers from the newsca newscast. the northam's story is how much things have changed. the yearbook photo ended his life and governorship. is this the new normal? joining me now is our analyst eric bohler and joe madison of

sirius xm. there is so much to talk about here. >> i am going to talk to you eric, what we got use to back in the day, i remember the "gimme a break" episode. was everyone getting the same pot of information from the big three canewspapers at night? like the national inquiry when they got jon edwards. how does that change in the way that these scandals are read? >> these stories can come from anywhere. you said it was a right wing conspiracy site. if the news is legit, you have to pay attention to it. some liberals want to say look at this site, facts are facts, you got to follow the story. most democrats of the rule have completely accepted the story for what it is. it shows you where news can come

from anywhere. it can come from anywhere and we don't know if this was part of a political that they had connection from o former political campaign or going after the governor because of an abortion stance this week. we don't know where any of those things come from. because of the internet, it can land anywhere and you got to pay attention to this stuff. the problem is massive lay-offs. >> what we just saw this week, buzzfeed and gannett and vice with major opportunity lay offs. more and more mainstream media outlets like "the washington post" verify a site like this coming up with. >> we are facing lay-offs and we kind of getting used to the

newspaper competing against the internet. those car ads are gone and real estate section were gone. >> they were adding jobs, not as many as nooewspapers were losin. this last two weeks have been devastating because of google has all the strangle hold on this advertisemenadvertisement. >> i mean they were a site that had been hit and missed. they went after shirley sherrod with everything they had and accused her of racism. she was fired during the obama administration over that. after that fiasco, the new york times partnered with steve bannon who took over later.

these sites, all they have to do is hit one. >> for them, their strategy were simple. if they have the quote on quote "goods," they can go to any outlets and take advantage of the nature. we are seeing this national of media. any of these partisan site emerged can have a nugget of something and try to blow it up if you will and partner with broader organizations and really what breitbart did was they're a pair si parasi parasite. once the new york times was involved, once you saw different pieces on cable news, "60-minutes," once they broadcasts it, it went viral. think about breitbart, their

traffic has declined significantly. they're down 40%. their model is not working of some of the things we are seeing with "vice" and other posts. >> one of the other things it is different, too is some of the origins are tied with politics. fox news, that's nothing completely new. in the case of politics, there is also one of the co-owners who was a consultant and worked for corey stewart campaign. there is a sense of -- i don't know, you can get the people who got you by finding something. >> this is revenge politics and media is being used as a weapon to deploy this type of revenge politics after the election. why was anyone doing this kind of opposition research on the governor after the election. clearly it was driven with the political agenda and by a

political operative who fed it to their friendly media outlet to try to get this out there. this is something that happens all across every campaign and every cycle that we see this and almost every bad research story, originates from a political operative feeding it to somebody. >> joe madison, i am glad to have you on the show. >> thank you. >> one of the other back in the day origins of a lot of trying to bubble up these kinds of attacks that sometimes get land and can be true in this case. was radio? radio was also struggling. we know tom joiner, a lot of candidates are relying on him. he's leaving at the end of the year. radio has had its struggle as well. what do you make of this new media landscape for finding these kinds of stories. in the case of this, i am surprised having lived through 1994 that northam inoculated

himself from it. >> everything everyone has said is accurate, no question about it. there used to be a time where newspapers had an entire section and some of us may remember, classified. it was a huge percentage of the revenue that newspapers would get. now, where do people go? craigslist. that took away a tremendous amount of revenue for newspapers particularly. in terms of what you asked, let's be honest, everyone has an iphone and everyone thinks they can be a journalist. they can drop these nuggets and then you end up having various entities. most young people and i am not against young people, most millennials and folks today they don't like in-depth reading. i have a staff, i will be quite honest, i had to teach them

where the editorial page was in the newspaper. they did not know there was an editorial page because they get it in bits and pieces. now, let me finally say this, follow the money, the reality is this. many of these entities are laying off people are not because of bad journalism. we know that. it is good journalism. what it is, is that investors want their money and they want it fast. and what has happened is that it used to be that newsrooms were not the profit center for most entities. >> they did not have to make profit. that was the entertainment segment job. when i first started in talk radio. you did not necessarily broadcast what people wanted. now people go to where their biases are. they want their biases

confirmed. but, i will never forget. the program director coming up and saying we have got something new. what is it? infotainment. we got to deliver information in an entertaining way. that's where we are now. >> tiffany, to that point you brought up in the previous hour when we were talking about this northam scandal, the bigger picture is policy. a picture is a picture but the question for a lot of african-americans lie deeper than that in a time where we are facing record level of naval mortality for black women when you are facing voter issues. those bigger picture requires a budget to investigate. what we get are those stories that can give you information as somebody's character at a point in time. are you concerned that we don't

end up getting enough information of the under line threats to the real lives of people, meaning the policies that go with some of these attitudes. >> i would echo what eric said at the beginning. this is a crisis of democracy. joe, you are absolutely right. it does not extend to millennials. these are working professionals who have not read a paper kcove to cover over a year. it is baffling to me. this is a challenge. joy, to your point about african-americans in consuming news. i think there is sometimes in the immediate wmedia when we re where it says i am happy that the media got it right. whoever these people are and somebody will come out, a picture surfaced and racial under tone and people are like what? what is racial under tone?

so there is this disconnect in the media. you have a huge fashion of people who knows the hashtag and not the issue. people don't read the opt-ed page anymore. this is a crisis on behalf of consumers. on the other side, you do have this profit margin that's a real actual issue where people have to figure out, you have to pay the bills and you have to figure out how to meet your bottom line and ultimately, you have challenges with the consumer themselves becominebecoming, yo people taking the president's twitter feed as their morning read which we have all see seen -- this is a consistent echo chamber of lives. throughout the country, it is going to be a real challenge for candidates and people trying to get information to people. how do you reach these folks? i spent 20 years trying to do it and it has been an uphill climb. >> can i interject one other

thing? this is where history plays a role because you brought up '84. it was interesting, everything was domestic, it was a time when right wing conservatives were demonizing the amc in south africa and nelson mandela. finally this is the other thing, don't just stop at northam. what the heck is going on at that hospital school. who ran that school? they did not proofread their yearbook? are you kidding me? >> or they did. >> absolutely. >> eric -- >> i was going to say there is a political element as tiffany alluded to. we have a political party in this country that wants uned uneducatedd electorates.

we have a president that's cheering lay-offs. >> more freedom for people to do what kneneil carter was complaig what was not done. why kacan't we use the "n" word? that's part of the under line theme here >> you see the discussion of taking down the flag and the confederate monument. they say it should be protected and that's always the case. what tiffany said was spot on. the dumbing down of america, this is why countries like russia can interfere in our election and use social media to manipulate people. we are not engaged and we are allowing ourselves to be vulnerable of that type of manipulation. >> joe madison and eric bohler. >> thank you, y'all. tiffany will be back in the

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state of the union this tuesday. >> according to the white house, trump will call on congress to quote, bridge old divisions and heal old wounds. simultaneously repeating his demand for a border wall. all from standing in front of the ladies. jason johnson. our senior adviser, naomi, let me start with you. let me play back pelosi postponing the state of the union during the shutdown. >> the state of the union is not a sacred day, it is not constitutionally required or the president's birthday. it is not anything. it is a date that we agree that could have been a week later. and it could be a week later if the government is opened. that date is not sacred for any reason. >> it is not his birthday.

i don't have to buy him a cake or anything. >> donald trump was told no cake for you. >> no cake. >> what i say it going to be like to have that lady behind him on one side and the adoring mike pence will be sort of breathlessly adoring of h i aim the other side of him. >> pelosi don't play. she's going to have that look on her face of disdain that i am going to have to correct you, toddler when you are out of control which is part of what scares donald trump about her. she's a symbol of female power. the idea that donald trump is going to be up there trying to heal old wounds and divisions, it is not the one that are in the country right now. he's not going to try to appeal to the party that took over congress. he's going to try to heal the division and conservative party and justify to mitch mcconnell of the world who have not led the gop that he has delivered

for them. he's going to try to deliver on abortion rights and on the tax cuts. he's going to use a bit of a victory lap to bring some of those people back to the fold to make up to the fact that he has been racist and sexist and dangerous for national security and trying to heal the division of the republican party with pelosi sitting behind him show him that the country is heading into a different direction. >> the thing that he can't get is the thing that he wants which is a wall that they don't seem to care about at all. it will sbe interesting to see how he plays it because up until now he had been blaming on nancy pelosi on the money for the wall. >> i think nancy pelosi is doing a terrible disservice to the people of the country. >> you still have to deal with her though. >> she can keep playing her

games but she will win. >> e. jochj., do you expect don trump to say that to her face or has the gut to? >> i can't wait to take the pool to see how many times the camera will go to pelosi. she's very discipline. she's not always going to show dis disdain. she's going to calibrate it carefully. he wants to be bipartisan that this is a guy who said what he just said there about nancy pelosi. this is a guy who says outrageous things about the wall and what democrats are doing. so i think there is going to be a lot of whiplash in this speech. i think that, i would be very surprised if he can resist not taking shots at the democrats. yet if he does not, if he tries to be unifying, it flies in the face of virtually everything he

has done. donald trump's political project depends on dividing the country particularly on issues like immigration and waste. i don't know how he can pull off being a unifying figure which is how they say he wants to be on tuesday. >> he's trying to get that somebody to say this is the day he became president. that's his goal. one line that makes somebody fall for it and say it. >> you covered the abrams campaign extensively, let me read you a quick bit from the atlantic article and why. this is from wednesday. the real function of these televised speeches sandwiched, the signal the party identified its chosen speaker as a rising star. abrams lost to brian kemp has become more prominent.

your thoughts? >> yeah, look, first off, joy, this is a huge, huge boom for stacey abrams. we are talk about justin fairfax. justin is like tom brady. i have talked to some of stacey's campaign team here. she's writing this speech herself even though she got a offered a lot of help from senator schumer and nancy pelosi. she was the most googled politician in america and 2018. this is not so much of a m coco out party. this is an announcement party and the new face of the democratic party. >> is this the attempt of the democratic party pushing her to run? >> that seems to be something

that people are discussing here. there is no definitive answer one way or another. if you get the opportunity to be the rebuttle to donald trump and be the face of the republican party, there is a good chance that, there is people who think that -- >> it is a big recognition of what they are acknowledging as a party now. if you go from 2016 with joe kennedy to two years later a black woman, that's a signal the party is starting to understand, who really holds them off. it is black women voters. i think there is a couple of things about stacey abrams. there are two things i think in addition are important about stacey abrams. one is she describes herself as progressive and pragmatist, those are said to be on the opposite side of the democratic

party. she's an optimist and a lot of her talk are about hope. that's going to stand in a sharp contrast to the kind of america that donald trump describes. that'll prove very useful to the party whether she runs to the senate or not. >> brian kemp should not get too comfortable. >> now, what does it mean that the real sort of opposition to donald trump is now female? it is nancy pelosi and stacey abrams and this is setting up to be, it is elizabeth warren, that's what the opposition is. >> and kamala harris. >> it is women of color. >> there is a whole variety of women to choose from in the sense of where they fall on the liberal spectrum. it will be interesting to see where the republican women or the women who voted for donald trump, where they end up in this? are they going to have some of the same challenges when it comes to the democratic?

>> we are out of toime. i will give you a quick super bowl prediction. >> i am going to pass. >> jason. >> it is the patriots, i hate them but the patriots are going to win. >> it is the patriots and i loulove them. it is the most unpopular thing i will say on the show today. >> bye e.j. >> bye. >> at least they play. >> i love you both. bye. >> i am so sorry to lose you joy. >> tech: at safelite autoglass

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i will take a coke. >> is pepsi okay? >> is pepsi okay? are puppies okay? is a shooting star okay? is a small child okay? >> pepsi is more than okay. ♪ >> okay, what have we learn today? >> i want a pepsi. >> there you go. okay? >> i got to come up with a new catch phrase. >> what? it is super bowl sunday. the rams taking on the patriots. today is not just the game, it

is about the commercials but also the fashion and the food at thousands of super bowl parties across the country. back with me, melbi wilson and pam oliver, senior correspondent who i feel so badly that you are not here with us, pam -- girl, the table. >> i regret that, too. >> i was not invited. we'll have to get you a copy of the book because you can make this stuff. mel is going to make it much better but you can make it, too. all right, i am going to start with you pam, you are at a disadvantage. >> let's talk about the issue of the game, there is a lot of politics right now. and of course issues of the anthem and whether or not they'll be kneeling or etcetera, talk a little bit about that.

>> well, i think with the patriots, their owner, bob kraft, is very tight with donald trump. he made it his mission to be sure that players are what he would call respectful of the national anthem. remember this is a social injustice campaign that colin kaepernick waged. you can turn it into whatever you want to turn it into. politics have really entered that conversation this week with some of the artists who did not want to be apart of the halftime performance to colin kaepernick and how many people who found that roger goodell, the commissioner, his comments about th that. there has been politics galore wishing the root would go away but it is not there yet. >> we know there is a lot of politics for everything.

tony harris, the nfl's numbers have gone down. is it about tpolitics or other digital stuff people are watching? >> ratings actually rose this season. last year it was so close to some of the different protests that fans were turned off but i don't think -- i think it is sort of exaggerated because president trump decided to make it an issue and sort of in flame his base in a lot of ways as far as the anthem went. i have covered a lot of games this season where a couple of players and it was not a very big deal. cameras did not focus on it. i didn't hear any booing, i think when it comes down to it, fans can be fickled if their teams are winning, they can get on board. it is a handful of folks really decided to make it an issue but the ravens rose this year.

>> okay, danielle, let's talk about the anthem issue. there is folks criticizing kaeperni kaepernick. what do you make of it? there is potential boycott of georgia and the governor's race and brian kemp. >> i mean i feel like the nfl is mar is -- there were people who were upset like you said about gladyst is coming and perform in the community. are you going to use this moment to say something about how players are being treated. the same thing that happened with travis scott for him per foming. okay, i am going to perform but i am going to give $500,000 to

social justice group. don't come to me. >> i heard that knight is upset that kaepernick -- >> literally everybody turned them down. >> if you are in atlanta, and there are not big voices. >> there was not a focus on local music artists and from georgia, that was a problem for them. >> i don't think the nfl really thinks. they make a lot of decisions and they kind of don't really get wha what's happening and how people are frustrated. people are calling out maroon 5 as well and you have artists like pink, why are you performing. if you are going to do something, use this moment to uplift the people. are they going to come up and show up with number 7 and wear kaepernick's jersey? that would be a moment? >> if anybody is listening. that would be a moment. >> what's going to happen?

do you think there will be a musical related protest during the musical number? >> well, it could be. >> remember the nfl cancelled maroon 5's news conference this week. they don't want the band to be subjected to some of the questioning and it would center around colin kaepernick. it is amazing to me that he's not in the nfl. i don't want to jump ahead on you, joy. it is amazing that he's not in the nfl two years after he began the protest movement. some of the backup quarterbacks in this league are atrocious. there is no reason he should not be performing on sunday even if it is in a backup role. his case continues. these owners, you got to wonder, what are they scared of? just be grown men. if you can play with this quarterback, bring him in. i definitely think he can be a

backup in his quarterback and he went to the super bowl and he led the 49ers to the super bowl. they won an nfc championship, a lot of these backup quarterbacks can't even come close to that. >> i think i was handed two cocktails. i can't be sure. here they are. i want to get into this conversation. the one thing people agree is everybody loves to eat. even our vegan friends. let's talk about the one unifying thing that we can all agree on this day. you brought us an incredible spread. >> yes. >> the other thing was you fed folks during the shutdown. talk to us what you got here. >> you can't have a super bowl party without good food, right?

>> super bowl is about the football game. it is also about the food. in these times, we need to be united. these are a few of my favorite things. >> we have our cat fish which are delicious. >> okay. >> what you are going to do. you are going dip it into our chipotle dipping sauce. there you go. >> all right. omnivore. >> these are family favorites and they're easy to make. we'll start with those. >> look at the display. >> it is all about the presentation. you can't have a super bowl par party without sliders. you can make them with turkey or beef or veggie burgers. and the little football accessory on the side. >> we all now have getting more

healthy and a lot of people are doing vegan. how do you serve a balance sort of menu that'll satisfy because everyone on our staff, we have some vegetarian or nsome not. what can you make to get the vegetarians involved? >> vegans do not just eat vegetables. what i made today was an amazing vegan hummus. it is a black eyed pea hummus. take a chip and dip. >> fabulous. >> that's what we want to do. our vegan dishes, even if you are not a vegan, you can enjoy them. >> look at the display. i want to come to your party. >> you have to. >> i want to go. >> what's the simplest thing that you can make? >> you know what, joy? chicken. >> can't go wrong with chicken. what we decided to do for super

bowl sunday was to make a sesame teriyaki chicken wings. we have some chicken wings over there and spring rolls. >> spring rolls are great. and cup cakes, chocolate cup cakes which are devine. you have to finish it up with desserts. >> and cocktails. >> i got one for each time. >> here we go. >> it is the super bowl! cheers! here to a great game. >> i am going let you get the last word since you are at an disadvantage here, i wish we can send you some food here. >> last word for me before i answer that is that i am hungry. you guys made it sound so good. that sounds like a delicious menu! >> girl, i feel so bad you are not here. >> we are sending you love. >> you should, joy.

>> i will go with the rams on this one. if the moment proves not too big for jared goff, i can see them winning and upsetting the patriots. br brady is going to do his magic, i would go with the rams. if it is a close game, it is tom brady all the way. >> we hope that the football will be in a, you know, we are hoping it will be fully inflated. >> pull out e.j.dionne. >> i am not saying anything shady. i am just saying the football should be fully inflated if you are going to use it. >> up next, my panel will join me. woman 1: i had no symptoms of hepatitis c.

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enjoy loved classics from the bbc and itv and discover exclusive new shows fresh from the uk. very good. brighten your new year with a britbox annual plan and get two months free. are you kidding? bring it on. this year, escape to britbox. sign up for an annual plan and start your free trial at britbox.com. it's time for the question on everyone's minds. not who is going to win the super bowl. who won the week? my panel. now who won the week? >> anybody who likes -- people

having health care. single payer health insurance. kamala harris made a big announcement at her town hall. >> some people are seeing it as a mistake. she said and private insurance. >> i think the difference is, the acknowledgment that actually the majority of americans, including republicans, super majorities and polling want government to provide some basic health care to everybody. >> yeah. >> republicans should be scared of that. the idea of saying single payer insurance used to kill a campaign. dead on arrival. now the progressives are leading the way. >> is liz mowarren under rated. >> i think there's too much of the residue from her -- the posturing about whether or not she's likeable. came out a little too early. >> women are doing -- they're really ahead. let's go to jason johnson. see what he thinks who won the

week? >> it's obviously. it's the atl. politically, culturally, economically. they don't just have the super bowl, the mayor pushed a republican senator to vote to reopen the government. there's large amounts of money being spent on the city. you've got fiphilanthropic thin, off the field players fighting against sex trafficking. and at the end of the day, they'll get to see the los angeles rams lose closeup. >> you always have to mess it up. you're going fine on a good roll and then you make -- all i need to know from you, sir, will there be an outcast reunion? >> i really, really hope so. but then again, all the people out there not watching the super bowl won't see it. i hope it happens. >> just be jealous. let's go to tiffany cross. i'll send you -- who of the week? >> i'm going to stick with the super bowl theme here. i'm going to see colin

kaepernick and the other players who took a knee with him. even at their own peril. jay z, cardi b and pink for declining to perform at the super bowl. with all the other chaos going on in the world, i don't want that to get lost. i recall jerry jones sometime last year said he's the owner of the dallas cowboys and said if any of my players make a knee, they won't make it out to the field. i bet if every last player took a field, every last one of them would have made it to the field. you guys are the players. you are the sport. it does not exist without you. at a time when colin kaepernick could have considered his own financial interest, he considered the greater good. for all people. when inequality impacts one of us, it impacts us all. he peacefully protested in the justice system and police brutality. he was attacked by everybody across the country. not everybody. but a lot of people across the

country shall, including the president of the united states. shout out to every nfl player who had the courage to take a knee to protest what was right. >> including eric reid who took a knee. i agree with that. the players who did that protest. mine is candace payne. she's a 4-year-old woman who made -- 34-year-old woman who made an act of grace and helped out during the deep freeze in chicago. she contacted hotels. found 30 hotels available wednesday night. 70 bucks a room. put it on her credit card. temperatures reaching 25 and 26 below on wednesday and thursday. put people up, needed care packages. she's a hero. she won the week. you know who else won the week? we had a birthday today, jose an thoen yoe vargas. another birthday happening. our own homie.

let's show him. there he is. >> james home. we call him homie. it's his 25th birthday. he's now a grownup and he can drink cocktails with me. he's a baby. >> thank you. thank you to my guests. i liked your answer tiffany. more after the break. r tiffany. more after the break -morning. -morning. -what do we got? -keep an eye on that branch. might get windy. have a good shift. fire pit. last use -- 0600. i'd stay close. morning. ♪ get ready to switch. protected by flo. should say, "protected by alan and jamie." -right? -should it? when you bundle home and auto... run, alan! ...you get more than just savings. you get 'round-the-clock protection.

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that is our show for today. thanks for watching. we'll be back next sunday at 10:00 a.m. >> you snow how you and i are sisters from another mother. again with the rams. i'm like so feeling the love with them. >> i mean -- >> our friend jason johnson, dude, what's wrong with you? >> that's why he didn't get any food. >> so many people in the studio. oh, my god. >> brought the spread today. i can't wait to get my hands-on it. >> enjoy. thank you, joy. good day to all of you from new york. it's high noon in the east. 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." the president unplugged covering everything in the new interview from the border wall to the nfl and of course, russia. >> there have been plenty nax al emergencies called. you can keep playing her games, but we will win. want to be -- we have a great cabinet. i have great people. they haven't been kneeling and