me. i will see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern with stephanie ruhle and then again 3:00 p.m. eastern. thank you for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. >> hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. if you were your teenager, you would call your mom's friend for advice how to get him up and out of his bedroom in the morning, away from the television, off social media and phone calls with his friends. we start with the bombshell report at axios, a white house source turning officer dozens of trump's private schedules filled with hundreds of hours of executive time over just a few months. the leak, either the greatest act of insubordination in modern political history, or the bravest act of a white house whistle-blower. either way, the truth bomb has been detonated. donald trump doesn't do much of anything as president. the schedules, which cover every working day since the midterms, showed trump spent about 60% of his scheduled time over the last three months in unstructured

skuch ti executive time, which we know consists largely of watching and tweeting fox news. axios reports the massive link has set off internal finger pointing and speculation, more fevered than any since "the new york times" anonymous op-ed. and former white house aide cliff sims, who since released his panic-inducing tell-all about the west wing described the fallout of the schedule this way, quote, there are leaks and then there are leaks. if most are involuntary manslaughter, this was premeditated murder. people inside are genuinely scared. it comes at a moment of crisis for the white house, with polls pointing to a new low point even for a historically unpopular president. the latest nbc news/"the wall street journal" poll showing 63% of americans think the country is on the wrong track. and a new poll from cnn shows 43% of respondents think the federal government is functioning at its worst in their lifetime. those numbers crashing on the

shores of a west wing that now closely resembles "home alone" than a functioning branch. inside the white house aides describe a chaotic, free wheeling atmosphere reminiscent of the early weeks of trump's presidency with counterweights like ousted chief of staff john kelly gone, some advisers say the west wing has the feel of the 26th floor of trump tower, where an unrestrained trump had absolute control over his family business and was free to follow his impulses. joining us on this big day, one of the reporters with that huge scoop of the weekend, axios political reporter alexi mchammond, plus ee like stoeckels, betsy woodruff is back, msnbc contributor and associate editor for real clear politics, amy stoddard. first off, congratulations. >> thank you, thank you. i was part of the small group of staffers who received these scheduled every day. i saw them every night and every

morning for more than four years and i have never seen anything like what you guys reported. talk about it. >> yes. so you know how big of a deal it would be if those schedules you were seeing at the time in the administration were leaked en masse as they were to us. as you talked about at the start of the show, i was leaked 51 of these schedules for nearly every single day since half the midterms. it showed 60% of the president's time over the last threeish months have been spent in executive time, which is a concept former chief of staff john kelly introduced last year because the president said look, i don't want to be tied down to a regular schedule. i want to have unstructured time so i can govern and do things as i see fit in my own way. you know, as you mentioned earlier, sometimes that includes watching "fox & friends" or cable news, msnbc, cnn, because he tweets about it. we know he's watching cable news, because he tweets about it. that can be tweeting or reading papers. but sometimes i think is fascinating he uses executive time to obscure meetings he doesn't want western officials to know about right away.

last week when he met with herman cain, for example, that was obscured under executive time and it wasn't on the schedule that was leaked to me but we obviously found out about that after. another time i'm thinking about october, i think it was, he was in executive time but tweeted how he had just gotten off the phone with the president of turkey. so he's also using executive time not just phone friends but call other world leaders to talk about different things, and that brings up the question who has the most influence on the president based on who's talking to him during these executive times and sort of the idea of information flow and the modern communication with the president, who wants this unstructured time to himself. >> alexi, it also raises so many questions about the more sinister things you described. only phone with air diwan, why would he not want people he's on the phone with him? is he hiding it from the pentagon? it's these national security debavers he's keeping obscure is most alarming when he uttered things like he did yesterday

that he wants to leave troops in iraq to spy on iran. is there concern some of the things he's keeping secret really are not good for america's national security? >> that's certainly come up in the conversations i have seen amongst folks today after the story was published yesterday. in theory the white house could make these phone calls and meetings available to the public to be more transparent about what the president is doing instead of after the fact, after the story was reported saying no, no, no, it's not that he's not working. he's taking hundreds of calls and doing these meetings and working around the clock, that may well be true but why not get ahead by releasing it to the public. that is something for the folks around him to decide whether or not it's a national security issue and how they're going to handle that moving forward. >> eli, because you're the lone male on the panel, i'm going to hit with you this question. he likes to project the idea he's virile, he's strong, he has a lot of endurance, everything around him is big. what about the schedule that really shows him to be a lightweight with no endurance and nothing on his schedule? >> nicolle, he's always talked

about and told you the things he wants you to think about him and we refer to that as kind of a tell the opposite is true. when he says he's the best or he's done something no one else has done, that sort of puts off the alarm bells and you go back and track that. for a long time we've been wondering how the president has been spending his time. we've had to go and see if there's a marine stationed outside the west wing, which is an indication that the president is in there working or not in there working if there's no marine outside. we had to stand around in the driveway and see people coming and going like the actor jon voight. oftentimes a lot of these meetings that are off the schedule, the president is the one who tweets them out. i'm thinking of the "the new york times" publisher salzberger that the president was the one that tweeted about sort of breaking the embargo on that. and so there's a lot that goes on, but, yes, he's always projecting that he's working hard tlouft t hard. at the shutdown, i'm here at the white house busy. he believed according to the

aides i spoke to that his presence at the white house was symbolically important as he was there ready to work. it's the same thing that staffers will tell you when he goes golfing and they tell you he's taking meetings and calls. meetings and calls is sort of reporter shorthand for the president playing golf or watching television or doing something that is not meetings and calls. so because of that, the white house has really lost credibility where in another situation, if they retained some of that, we might actually take them more at their word when they say executive time amounts to something other than the president sitting in the executive dining room off the oval, and watching dvr'd episodes of shows on fox. >> i guess, eli, if things were going well, you might write like a steve jobs management book about how doing nothing is a great way to run the country, because the president has hi historic approval ratings, the government is functioning but the opposite is true. doing nothing has led to calamity and tragedy if you look

at the incompetently executed immigration policy and federal workers are probably still on the phone with credit agencies trying to right the wrong from the shutdown, nothing is functioning. what is the defense for a president who doesn't get up and go to the office? >> a lot of times they will point to the economic numbers and larger indicators, economic growth, job numbers that came out as proof the president is doing a great job. in fact, in the interview yesterday on cbs before the super bowl, the president responded to a question about poor ratings in terms of how he's handling racial issues by saying look at the economy. that's the reflective response this white house had. but most people can see through a lot of that, a lot of other indicators in terms of polling that show, as you pointed out, some pretty low approval numbers for this president. i think people get a pretty clear sense that there has never been a whole lot of planning or process coming from this administration. this is a president who has resisted that for years, long before he was in politics, is very hard to sort of focus in on

what's going on, hard to get him to input information from experts and other people who in traditional administrations advise the president to move towards smart decisions and away from bad ones. this president does not have a lot of advisers. a lot of his advisers are people that he calls outside friends, people that he talks to during executive time, and people that he listens to on the television. >> phil drucker has joined our merry gang here, white house chief from "the washington post." he covers a lot of these days, alexi, you and your colleagues have reported on. phil, let me read you one of these schedules. i think i talked to you on this day, january 18th n thick of the government shutdown. the president had two 30-minute meetings and seven hours of executive time. on november 7th, the day after the midterms, which i believe is when the schedules start, this is when he was figuring out how to fire jeff sessions. i guess he needed time to think about it. he only tweeted about it 400 times.

he had one 30-minute meeting and seven hours of executive time. and as we noted already, if things were going beautifully, you could argue this is a brand-new way to run the united states government. but your incredible reporting from the weekend with your colleagues, this is a white house in crisis. this is a white house at the low point for historically unpopular presidency. >> yeah, just -- first, nicolle, a couple of things from the executive time and some of the others on the panel have touched on this but i think it's important to underscore that trump makes a ton of phone calls. yes, he's calling friends and all sorts of random people like lou dobbs or sean hannity or people like that but he's also calling a lot of republican senators during the day, he talks to business ceos, he conducts some sort of business. it's not formal meetings with intelligence chiefs or various cabinet secretaries but there is some bit of work that goes on in addition to the tv watching and newspaper reading. but in terms of this moment for the presidency, it really is a

crossroads here. he's at his most acrimonious state with congress right now. he's got the mueller investigation coming to a conclusion potentially as early as later this month. he's got a big -- one told me a subpoena blizzard who will be investigating his conduct in office, finances and corruption in the administration, and the president isn't quite sure how to manage all of that and he's increasingly unencumbered and relying on his own counsel and counsel of his son-in-law jared kushner. trump allies say this is like back in the days when he was on the 26th floor of trump tower running his real estate and branding empire where he called all of the shots and made his own decision and it was a family-run business. that's what the west wing is at the moment. >> when i read that part of your piece and it's excellent, everyone should jump online and read it, what i thought when you returned how he returned to the way things were in trump tower, huh, that is when the russians

got inside to give him dirt on hillary clinton and then they all went on to lie about it, including the president from aboard air force one. that's not a good reference point to say the west wing turned into the 26th floor of trump tower. >> yeah, that's a very fair point, nicolle. it's also worth pointing out the trump organization, the business he ran, was different than being the united states of america. the federal government is complex. there are millions of people who work for it. there are dozens of agencies and there are tons of decisions, both domestically and in terms of foreign relations, that the president of the united states has to make. it's a much more consequential job than being the head of a family business where you build hotels and put your family name on line and save some water and all of those other products. >> it sure is. betsy, i read alexi's reporting and thought about the kinds of leaks in the white house in which i worked. and there were a lot of leaks, but they were all about the

controversial nature of the post 9/11 counterterror policies, they were leaks from the intelligence committee about metadata. there were leaks from the cia about enhancing interrogations which are to this day polarizing, provocative, and really things that i think were viewed at the time as a service to have out there. that wasn't our view signed the white house, we viewed them as jeopardizing those programs. but these were all about the president being lazy. >> that's functionally correct. and this particular piece of reporting is a confirmation of the president's darkest and most con spiritual suspicions, which is the people around him, the people with access to the most sensitive information about the nature of the work he's doing, do not respect him and are not working to protect him. this is probably the worst thing that hand to trump's mental situation since the anonymous "the new york times" op-ed that really rocked the white house and just created this furor of paranoia. one reason this reporting is so important is that it highlights the extent to which trump is

probably a historically influenceable president. he's really, really vulnerable to people who don't necessarily have the best -- the best goals for the united states at mind to get in touch with him. we know foreign governors have cultivated people who are able to get him on the phone, the golf buddies, mar-a-lago pals. the fact he's got all of this unstructured time when people who could have connections to foreign governments are able to give him a call and shape american foreign policy, we already know that has an impact but this reporting just shows how exponentially dangerous that impact could be. >> it's such an important point. i do worry it might get lost in sort of the ludicrousness having 7 1/2 hours of undisclosed, unstructured time. but we have a president who uses a cell phone that's not secure, and utters most wildly invasive things about the invasion of afghanistan. where does that come from? you make a great point, maybe people are reaching him from

john bolton or the cia department -- i sat outside the oval office, every phone call with a foreign leader, you had someone with the state department walk in and listen in. >> undoubtedly. we know from this reporting that's almost certainly not the case and a significant portion at the time, another detail here that's important is there's an additional, more secret schedule that axios writes about that include meetings that aren't are the one they reported. essentially the president had this approach to scheduling because he does not trust very senior west wing staffers. >> i'm reminded of bob corker, who said this white house very manibles an adult day care and also questioned the president's fitness for the office he holds. hear from bob corker, consistent 474. >> it's this point about these potential interactions with foreign leaders without kind of the overlay of the national security staff and intelligence professionals is i think the most consequential, because i think there are a lot of people

in this country who would like the president to watch tv and not make ray lot a lot of decis during the day for real. but however, we learned very frightening information reporting right as we made the decision to pull troops out of syria that he basically in one phone call with erdouan, you're beginning an adult with the kurds? i'm going to leave. and within days and former john mattis and secretary of state mike pompeo and john bolton joining pompeo urgently pressed upon him several days over and over again to reverse his decision that all resulted from the phone call. i don't know who makes the foin calls for him, how he connects, maybe he just has them on speed dial in his cell phone, but that would be the most material in

this discovery how he spends his time and who's around when he's having such consequential conversations. the tv watching i don't think bothers tv as much as the idea he's freelancing with foreign leaders, adversary that's we worry about, that he tends to think are really respectable, strong men and consequential decisions being made as a result. >> alexi, this is a consequential piece of reporting. all of you here today have written these pieces. i'm thinking of phil rucker's pressure cooker analogy, which always perceives some sort of blow from the white house. eli and betsy also. this is not a one-day story. where are you taking this today? what are you learning today since the publication in addition to the finger-pointing and fallout? >> the finger-pointing and fallout is something we've been following today but i think the points betsy and others made is this does call into question how influential other people can be on the president, especially with respect to foreign policy. john bolton is a big question in

that. the president and governing style which sarah sanders suggested a more creative approach to governing, is something that can influence not just foreign policy but the way he's handling immigration, the way he doesn't to mitch mcconnell when he's talking about not shutting government down. that couples with his use of a personal cell phone, which i think that story is not over yet, is something i will be looking for in the next two weeks. >> alexi, phil and eli, we are nothing without your reporting. thank you for spending time with us. after the break, donald trump's big, beautiful brain faces off against the intelligence community. donald trump reupping his attacks on the wisdom of intelligence. also ahead, stumped by the number of indictments robert mueller handed down. government saying they have nothing to do with him. funny, we saw two names on the documents that should look familiar to him. >> and while the president continues to stroke his bruised ego, the human toll of his inhumane and incompetent

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better at the military than i am. i know more about isis than the generals do. i'm speaking with myself, number one, because i have a very good brain, and i've said a lot of things. nobody knows. nobody in the history of this country have ever known. nobody knows the system better than me. which is why i alone can fix it. is donald trump an intellectual? trust me, i'm like a smart

person. donald trump's very, very large brain. with my intelligence, people tell me how wonderful iran is, if you don't mind, i'm just going to go by my own counsel. >> what could go wrong? to hear him tell it donald trump is the biggest, best, smartest person to ever walk the face of the earth. that delusional sense of self-gran diesment, he's the best so why listen to advisers? it gets worse. intelligence officials describe a willful ignorance when presented about high-level analysis. "time" magazine spoke to analysts and briefers who describe futile attempts to keep his attention using visual aids, combining some points to two, three sentences and repeating his name and title as frequently as possible. what is most troubling are trump's angry reactions when he's given information that contradicts positions he's taken or believes he holds.

quote, two intelligence officers even reported they had been warned to avoid giving the president intelligence assessments that contradicts instances he's taken in public. joining our conversation, the national security reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst. a.b. and betsy are still here. in your world and in your beat, you come across presidents -- i put the administration in which i serve in this category -- would take the intel and make decisions that are controversial and seem justified by the intel but you don't see a lot of examples of a president who is the number one client of the intelligence committee saying i don't believe the facts, i don't believe the evidence, i don't believe the intel. >> yeah, look, he's the elected commander in chief, the decisions are his to make. he's allowed to disagree with the intelligence apparatus, with the law enforcement apparatus but you just don't see it to disagree and it's not sort of healthy for him to be in such

contrast to all of the intelligence officials, head of the fbi, cia and others. i think, you know, it's remarkable to on some of these topics, these are sensitive national security matters. the one that stands out to me the most, of course, is his disagreement or public disagreement with the intelligence community on the issue of russia's meddling in the election. it's one thing for him to be saying, well, i would have won anyway but he raises questions about whether russia hacked influence our election as all. it's really remarkable stuff. >> one of the things we talked about yesterday was leaving troops in iraq to spy on iran. let's watch that. >> being in iraq was a mistake. being in iraq was a big mistake, one of the greatest mistakes going into the middle east our country has ever made. one of the greatest mistakes we ever made. we spent a fortune on building this incredible base, we might as well keep it. one of the reasons i want to

keep it is because i want to be looking a little bit at iran because iran is a real problem. >> whoa, that's news. you're keeping troops in iraq because you want to be able to strike in iran? >> no, because i want to be able to watch iran. all i want is to be able to watch. >> the beginning, i'm sure a lot of people agree with the assessment of iraq. but to say in an interview you want to keep troops, soldiers deployed in iraq to spy on iran, i called the former national security official and said what do i do with that? he said i ignore him. i said that's news. if you tell me you would have ignored that, where are we? he's the commander in chief. he said something on television what troops should do in iraq vis-a-vis iran. >> and at the same time in baghdad there's growing frustration among senior officials in the iraqi government with u.s. presence there. we're seeing high-level people say they don't feel comfortable with the u.s. using it as essentially a potential launchpad for espionage efforts. it makes thing complicated for

iraq. they have to live in the neighborhood. iran is a big power and consequence of the u.s. invasion and occupation of iraq is we've seen at the same time iranian influence in that part of the world grow. >> and syria's strength in iran as well. if you're worried about iran, you should pull out of syria. >> pulling out of syria would be the best possible case for iranians. and at the same time the great power that benefits the most from all of this is russia. >> it is always russia, matt. as you said, the through line through his incoherence is always whatever he utters, whatever he sputters, whatever he does ends up benefiting russia. >> yeah, it's joust mystifying when you govern by sort of what you think off the top of your mind in an interview or by what tweet and people don't know what to take seriously and what not to, it's just a confusing situation. that's news to me. when i hear him say like the

interviewer, whoa, that's significant, stop him, but is that his position or did he really just think of that in the course of an interview? i guess i don't know the answer to that. >> and i guess that leads us back to where are we? where are we is we're all the day after an interview by america's president not only trying to deal with the amifications of said policy but trying to understand what the hell he said. >> we have an ongoing national security crisis but that's been true since november 9, 2016, because donald trump never understood any policy detail. that was true in the campaign and it's true now that he's president. >> it's two years, cohave soaked something up in two years. >> agreed but he doesn't listen or like to read longer than two sentences. if you have someone who thinks hair they're smarter than everybody else in the room with a big ego and doesn't like to look like, this has to do with his hubris of feel ig like he knows the answer even when he's read the material and that's

terrifying. this is not something you can just ignore him. certainly military commanders may see we're not going to listen to that thing he said in one news interview but as a citizen, he's our president. so the commander in chief, there are consequences. you're moving real troops, real people, real lives into harm's way potentially based on something he said offhand. that's crazy. >> he also improvised the mattis firing, i believe you were in washington the day of that shocking development over a debate over syria policy, secretary mattis, who was viewed as the last human guardrail, resigned. margaret brennan said how do you know when to fire something? when it's not happening or when it doesn't again done. like general mattis, i wasn't happy with his service and i said give me a letter. he asked him to resign and

resigned. >> that's not what we heard at the time. he has a habit of not liking other people and having chief of staff kelly do the firing. or if you quit on him, he wants people to think you're rejected. so there's a lot of moving explanations. i don't think people are really buying this one. but i would go back to what he said about iraq and what he's saying about iran because he tends to have these precooked notions going back sometimes 30 years about things and he cannot be moved off with any new facts. from his previous decisions. so iran right now is in his crosshairs drowning over the holidays in the midst of a lot of russia investigation developments and really bad shutdown, "the wall street journal" reporting the white house has requested from the pentagon options of how to strike iran, much to the shock of many people at the pentagon. and there is -- there's an idea in his head about how the iranians took us for suckers

because obama let this happen. and by reversing, by getting out of the nuclear agreement obama set up with them, even though his intel chief said last week they're not in the process of officially, certifyingly developing i nuclear weapon right now, that unfewer rates the president because it goes against what he believes the threat from iran and now he's going to encounter that. wee have had not had one comment from last week when he told all of us he met with his intel chiefs after he testified under oath in conflict what he said about several issues with iran, north korea, et cetera. when he told us that it was all fake news, everything we saw on tv for three hours, no one has gotten a comment from gina haspel or jan coates about the discussions in the oval office but it must have been something. >> matt, to wrap this up, last week he really did sort of pull the fake news card out on his own intel chief sitting in the oval office saying what you have been covering is fake news.

it gets to all of what we're talking about. they testified the facts about russia as you stated them, the facts about iran as a.g. stated them and the facts about north korea as the entire intelligence committee is in agreement now other than trump, who is enamored with his love letter writing behavior with a murderous dictator. >> look, i think he sort of got uncomfortable with the coverage he was out of step with the law enforcement community and intelligence community, so he tried to say hey, that hearing that you were able to watch live, that's just an example of fake news, like this is the media's problem. you can easily look at transcripts of that hearing. you're able to just watch it. this wasn't anonymous sources where he can dispute. these were his intelligence community leaders, leaders of his intelligence community in public saying things that are contradictory to positions he's taken. he sees the media as such a foil he could sort of say fake news in any scenario but this wasn't the kind of anonymous reporting,

leaks from inside the white house. this was his intelligence leaders saying things publicly that stood in contradiction to his views. i think he just got upset sort of with the coverage there and that's why he said what he said. >> it always comes down to the press coverage. after the break, donald trump claims the 30-plus indictments in the mueller probe have nothing to do with him. we'll set the record straight on that next. you why because people trust advertising icons. some bloke tells you to go to geico.com and you're like, really? and just who might you be? but a gecko - he can be trusted. i ask you if you want to save hundreds on car insurance. and you're like, yes thank you, mind babysitting my kids? i'm like, of course i'll sit with the kids. you're like a brother to me. geico.com. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today. and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team.

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the russia thing is a hoax. i have been tougher on russia than any president maybe ever than any president. >> when it comes to the investigation special counsel is conducting, 34 people have been charged here. >> are you ready? are you ready? of the 34 people many were bloggers from moscow or people that had nothing to do with me, nothing to do with what they're talking about or people that got caught telling a fib or telling a lie. >> which is illegal.

are you ready? we counted five false misstatements in that five-second diatribe. first, bloggers. the president is talking about russian intelligence operatives who launched an attack on this country to help elect him because he couldn't do it by himself. and the indicted americans who trump suggest have nothing to do wa him include his one-time campaign chairman, one-time deputy campaign chairman, longtime fixer, national security adviser handpicked by him and his family and longest serving political adviser. not to mention mueller has not closed the book on trump's own son or son-in-law, at least as far as we know. paul butler is joining us. what are we missing? >> look, his campaign manager's been indicted, roger stone, who he talked to about the election and campaign, has been indicted. michael cohen, his lawyer's last

fixer. what the witnesses who go to the grand jury said is mueller is very interested in their is conversations with donald trump. trump said i'm told i'm not i target. target is a specific legal term that he's about to be indicted. in a technical way, he couldn't be a target because mueller will follow the guidelines that a sitting president can't be indicted. but is the grand jury very interested in him? of course for obstruction and for collusion with the russians. that that's the subject of the investigation. >> so i -- unfortunately for me i'm a student of the defenses. there are some. they haven't charged the president with collusion. there's no evidence they charged anyone with collusion yet. it's not a crime, it's a conspiracy. but i didn't know any of these people, not a good one. not a good one at all. in their efforts to ob stur the facts, i don't understand why they make up their own facts. >> in particular one great example of how that's just a

total myth is the indictment of rick gates. paul manafort left the campaign under dubious circumstances when his connections to extremely powerful and sketchy russians surfaced. but rick gates, who was his deputy, stayed on and as we reported made multiple visits to the white house. he wasn't just a campaign guy. he wasn't sort of a fringer hanger-on, he was somebody who had white house access, who was bringing people in, who knew how to influence trump as president and not just as a candidate. sop this idea that these people had nothing to do with him is literally the opposite of the truth. >> what do you think when you hear that from him? >> it's not true. . >> just simply not true. this is your beat as well. we will let you jump in here. this new, new, new spin on mueller, i don't know anybody in trouble yet. other than the russians, which has president he should actually be very well versed, he should be very well briefed on the people who attacked america's democracy. we've been talking all hour how he doesn't care about intel and you raised the point especially

when it pertains to russia. put that aside. the fact these are people closest to him in the world and as betsy said even in his own white house is ridiculous. >> roger stone has been his friend for what, throw, four decades? you talk about his campaign chairman, deputy campaign chairman, national security adviser for a time. these are people very close in his orbit. and i think the question of the russians is important to minimize as bloggers, there was a social media influence campaign. i suppose you can minimize those bloggers but military officers were charged. a dozen russian military officers were charged with hacking to influence our election. it's one thing to say, hey, i would have won anyway and condemned what they did. it's another thing to sort of minimize the efforts of the russian military to influence our election as the work of some russian bloggers. it's sort of remarkable. >> let me just preface on the

social media point, by now two years in, shouldn't you also be against -- it's sort of like attacking a crazy uncle. it's okay for me to attack my uncle but i don't want you in my family business. shouldn't he say now that i'm president, i want to make sure for better or worse the only people influencing our elections are american? >> right. this was sort of a more organized term than the bush of russian bloggers, americans were duped into participating in it, the indictment spells out in great detail this sort of orchestrated way that on the influence side, not the hacking side, the russians tried to influence our election. >> paul, i want to read you something "the new york times" reported by deutsche bank. we don't cover the deutsche bank thread of all of this as much as we probably should. this to me is about donald trump having his hand out looking for money. that seems to be an important piece of the russia question. let me read this to you. "the new york times," trump sought a loan during the 2016

campaign. deutsche bank said no. it was early 2016 and trump was lending tens of millions of dollars to his campaign and had been spending large sums to expand the trump organization's roster of high-end properties. to finance his businesses growth, mr. trump turned a longtime alley deutsche bank, one of the few who was willing to lend money to the king of debt. trump's request set off a fight that reached the top of the german bank. according with three people familiar with the request. in the end deutsche bank did something unexpected, it said no. >> two things here, one, trump's red line has always been his personal finances. we always knew there was never going to be a big, distinct line between the personal finances and his political dealings. that's what mueller's very concerned about because this could be a motive. the question would be, this guy is a billionaire. what could the russians do for him that he couldn't do for himself? if he's not getting a loan, he's got to get favors from other people at the same time he's running for president of the

united states. >> it takes a lot for deutsche bank not to do business for somebody. this is a bank that's been fined hundreds of millions of dollars for not doing more to stop russians from laundering massive sums of money through its bank. another deutsche bank thread we often overlook is the fact this bank sold financial products to the mercer family. these were multi billionaire conservative mega donor family that played a key role in getting trump elected. a senate committee affirmed or assessed the mercers used this money to dodge paying more than $6 billion in taxes. that's larger than the gdp of some countries. they used these products in part to do that. now according to the bloomberg report, the mercers have been in negotiations with the irs about how to potentially settle that tax debt. those negotiations are done entirely in secret. obviously, tax issues are supposed to can be confidential but this is something where trump's political appointees in the irs have access to very

sensitive talks about billions of dollars on the table and deutsche bank is right at the top. >> are we to assume robert mueller has access to anything the irs has access to? >> i can't confirm that. i don't have reporting confirming he does but he would be able to through traditional law enforcement means. >> he could easily get them. at the same point roger stone is key. we know at the same time president trump was talking to roger stone, off the campaign still talking all the time, roger stone was ordering hacked e-mails from wikileaks like i might order pizza from dominos. he was specific. i want something from the clinton foundation, he got it. i want something that raises questions about hillary's health. he got that. again, he's having these conversations with wikileaks at the same time that he's talking to trump. that's suspicion. >> also, if you look at the bombshell of the deutsche bank

issues overlying the same time period when trump is trying to get the moscow project done, the approval and help of the russian federation, the government in russia is running for president. the russians are intervening on his behalf in the election, all of our intelligence agencies conclude that and inform the candidates about it during the campaign, and he's lying to the public about it, and he's compromised, therefore, and putin knows that. this is all happening at the same time, and i think we just want to also throw out there that not only is rick cates still cooperating with mueller on these issues so is flynn and allen whitesleburg, ceo of the trump administration who knows every transaction this man made that has to do with the russians. >> and i think the news in that interview is he knows what a lie is. these people are charged with just telling a fib, as if lying is something we shouldn't be concerned about as american citizens. that was a telling moment that

he doesn't think lying to investigators is that big of a deal. >> process crimes. >> right, also known as crime. and in addition, he was -- he corresponded the messaging on the campaign with what was in those e-mails. i know that because i was there when we were being hacked and he was talking about wikileaks every single day. every morning there was a podesta dump and he was talking about all of the things that were being reported from those e-mails from the stump. >> it was a really creepy thing. we've played it before. wikileaks, i love wikileaks. can't make it up. matt, thank you for spending time with us. we're grateful. when we come back, donald trump is increasingly isolated on the policy for the border wall. this is the human toll for this hardline immigration policy comes to light.

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table. i don't like to take things off the table. it's that alternative. it's national emergency. it's other things, and you know, there have been plenty of national emergencies called. and this really is an invasion of our country this is an invasion of our country by human traffickers. >> that was the president leaving his options open. trump tries to garner support far crisis that doesn't exist, he probably will not be discussing the real crisis. an official at the department of health and human services says finding all of the children separated at the border may be logistically impossible. trying to identify additional separated children were within the realm of the possible and it would imperil the orr's ability

to perform it's core functions. the aclu weighed in. a.b., what is happening? >> this whole untraveling of the detention policy and how intensional it was to produce trauma and scare people from across the border into not coming here is unbelievable and even just to see that is hard to believe that now that they have been traumatized once they're saying it is too traumatizing, first they can't find them. it is not even worth it because it would not be good for their

welfa welfare. but watching for the last couple days, he won't shut the government down again. he likes drama, he wants us to watch. the senators by a simple majority vote will be voting with the democrats the approval or the declaration will be defeated, but it will embarass him. >> mitch mcconnell tried to warn him that at least, i think, six to eight republican senators were not intoing to support the

declaration on a variety of reasons. >> all understandable. you're setting a precedent for the next democratic president. it's a separation of hours issue. the congress has the hour. for many reasons they don't want to be on the record supporting this. >> i think you're point is they don't want to see it it used for policy making and i think the republicans i have seen against it it runs the gam met from people w house members to the policy itself to republicans that oppose the tactic. >> the child celebration policy is a racist policy. i think it is a stain on the nation, and the cruelty of it is the point of it. we're not up in arms because these children are not white. the fact that they separated them from their parents with no intention of reuniting them or

tracking him was not even a thought they had. that they might reunite the kids because they didn't care enough to think it through. i think the reason there is not massive protests is because the children are not white. they should be protected no matter who they are and putting them in cages is something that everyone should remember. every day we watch this president, he is lying, he is saying ridiculous things and it can be entertaining because he is so ridiculous, but the policies that he is implementing are cruel. and it is hurting people of color. >> but i don't disagree with you, but the outcry, laura bush said this is reminiscent of the

ugliest chapters of japanese interment camps. why doesn't anything happen? >> because the children are not white. >> but they're babies. >> but in this country black lives matter is a hash tag. that black lives matter just as much as other lives. not that white lives don't matter, right? if all lives matters we would all be storming the capitol because these children matter as much as every other child, as a person of color and someone that thinks about these issues a lot, i think it is uncomfortable for us to all think about we're not all protesting and storming the capital when you see a 17 month old child being reunited with her mother after a month. the baby feeling like how could you leave me, mom. those are the types of images that 40 years if now we're going

to be looking back at with shame. >> there is no doubt that a baby, and i have one so i know, they have no idea why the parent would leave. >> and the cynicism of using these children as political instruments, as pawns, to do something that is not even a national emergency. but was was if we put these kids in caging their parents may not come. >> one thing that many lawyers representing the chirp of these parents told me is they didn't think some of the kids would ever get back together with their parents, and i was stunned, and now a lot of that has really been born out. >> we're going to sneak in our last break, don't go anywhere. what they're talking about.

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heart felt thanks to everyone who is watching. now it is like for "mtp daily." >> it is monday, is ralph northam taking a page from the trump playbook? good evening, i'm katie turr, welcome into "mtp daily." we just witnessed a massive leak out of the white house targeting one person and one person only, donald trump, we're also still trapling with the fallout from the president's latest attack on his intelligence wheefs this weekend. they have been warned not to