>> and 12 years later nancy pelosi will sit in the same seat tonight as a very different republican president delivers the state of the union. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, february 5, we're in washington to cover tonight's state of the union address. along with joe, willie and me -- >> we're really actually here to cover what's going on in virginia. >> wow. and then there's that, too. we were just talking about that coming in. >> as the world turns. >> we have msnbc political analyst michael steele, washington bureau chief for "usa today" susan page and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and political analyst eugene robinson. you write about virginia so we'll get to that and what is going on there. it's incredible drama. but when president trump takes the podium on capitol hill tonight, he will as joe writes

in his new "washington post" column, "delivering the state of the union against a grim political back drop", that includes low expectations and even lower approval ratings, a political class that no longer fears him and an investigation of all things trump as federal prosecutors zero in on the president's inauguration and investigate foreign donors. >> there have been times, some of us maybe can remember, maybe bill clinton going to congress for his state of the union address, perhaps in as bad of a situation, perhaps maybe a little worse. but clinton had the ability to actually move the country with him when he spoke.

it's something that donald trump has not proven himself capable to do yet outside of like hockey arenas. >> the word from the white house is it's going to be about comity, comit comit-o-m-i-t-yc-. it might be a little late for that. republicans now, when he's going to go up there and perhaps talk about the possibility of a national emergency, a declaration of a national emergency, senate republicans now one by one have been coming out, especially yesterday and saying that is a terrible idea led by the majority leader mitch mcconnell. >> susan, that is what's so interesting leading in this. we have republicans that have been blooindly loyal to donald trump during the past several years. they got trounced in the midterms, worst election results ever in the 240-year history of this country. then you have a government shutdown that goes terribly and

it's donald trump's government shutdown and now you actually do have mitch mcconnell saying that old quote, there's rarely an education from the second kick of a mule. and mitch and the republicans don't look like they're ready for a third kick of that mule. they're not ready for confrontation. >> obviously there's a difference with this state of the union because democrats control the house and it's nancy pelosi sitting over the shoulder but republicans have changed, too, compared with last year and before. look at the senate vote yesterday on a different measure, a resolution against the precipitous withdrawal from afghanistan and syria, a direct confrontation to president trump that passed 70-26. that is a warning sign to the white house that they no longer can count on republicans to stick with them, no matter what. >> and only three republicans, i guess, voting on the same side as the president. everybody else going with mitch

mcconnell. >> rand paul. does that count on that vote? >> no, it really doesn't. >> that's extraordinary. we'll see how republicans react at home. they do have to look at their shoulder, those facing reelection and potential primary challenges and stuff like that. ne ha they have to be wary of getting too far from right. at the same time, susan is right, the temperature has changed. >> it has. a number of senate republicans are pushing back at the president's threat to declare a national emergency in order to build his border wall. gop members are increasingly speaking out against the move, shooting down the possible path for the president to get his wall. republicans including snoenator john cornyn and others have made

efforts to steer the president away from going away from congress. >> i think it's a dangerous step. one because of the precedent it sets. two, the president's going to get sued and it won't succeed in accomplishing his golal. and, third, ms. pelosi may introduce a proposal that will divide the house and come over here as republicans. to me it strikes me as not a good strategy. >> as harry truman would say, let's mark him down as undecided. >> as you heard senator cornyn say, a declaration by the president could result in congress trying to block him by using a resolution of disapproval. if the democratic-controlled house passed the resolution, the senate would be required to take it up. the president would then be forced to veto the measure

intended to block him. doesn't want this. >> first of all, it's unconstitutional. of all the examples of donald trump's own words, used against him by federal judges, no worse example for donald trump than this where he's basically said i'm going to negotiate and if i don't get exactly what i want, i'm declare a national emergency. there's not a federal judge anywhere appointed by any president that would uphold that. worse than that, michael, you've heard republicans just like me, it gives future democratic administrations the ability to say, wait a second, there's a school shooting, 36 kids were gunned down and killed -- >> that's right. >> this is the third month in a row. i'm going to declare a national emergency like donald trump did with the wall, we're going to talk about public safety and we're going to go ahead and i'm

just going to sign into law those national background checks. i'm going to just sign into law a ban on military-style assault weapons, i'm going to sign into law a ban on bump stocks and go down the steps. because, again, you actually do have a number of deaths directly related -- >> that's an emergency. >> that is a national emergency most americans would agree. >> i think you hit it right on the head. it was very interesting the way cornyn laid out his three points. the first one dealt with what you just raised and the third one dealt with the other political problem, which is when it gets to the senate, it won't take many defections to walk away from the president. the republicans do not want the embarrassment of that, number one. but the other legislate ive problem is the one you just put your finger on. they know this all comes back

around real soon, potentially in 2020. and the reality of a kamala harris or any one of that particular, you know, philosophical point of view in the white house declaring a national emergency on not just the environment, the environment is going to be easy. it's on the stuff that cuts to the core of what republicans have been arguing around second amendment, et cetera, that's where the -- >> by the way, using donald trump's logic, you could make that argument on the environment, you could make that argument on guns, you could make that argument on the national debt, where you have economists lining up one after another saying a $22 trillion national debt that continues to spiral out of control is a national economic emergency, it must be taken care of at once. a democratic president kamala harris decides she's going to sign into law an emergency repeal of donald trump's tax cuts. this is what donald trump is experimenting with, which is why of course there is no

serious-minded republican that would ever support this. you would have to be a bumpkin, a fool, somebody with absolutely no knowledge of politics and the constitution of the united states to think this is a good idea. >> i have one for you, joe. let's see if the person you're describing -- >> you do not. >> one top senate republican at least is warning his colleagues not to resist president trump if he declares a national emergency o get his wall. >> who is person? >> speaking in his home state of south carolina yesterday, senator lindsey graham, chairman of the senate judiciary committee -- >> stop right there. he's the chairman of the senate judiciary committee. >> it's just incredible. >> the person that you would hope would have a better working knowledge of the united states constitution than anyone else. that really should in a city that is rarely shocked anymore,

that should shock people. >> maybe he convince you with his argument. >> to every republican, if you don't stand behind this president, we're not going to stand behind you when it comes to the wall. this is the defining moment of his presidency. it's not just about a wall. it's about him being treated different than every other president. >> so senator graham went on to say while he understands some of his republican colleagues have concerns about the precedent that president trump would set by declaring a national emergency that it is, quote, no excuse not to have this president's back now because we're not doing anything exotic here, he said. graham also says he does not expect congress to come up with a deal to avoid another government shutdown after february 15th. so the argument goes a national emergency is the only way out to get the wall to do the

president's bidding there. >> it was one lindsey o. graham himself who said last year when republicans actually had control in the house and the senate and the ability to build a wall, he said it's not really a good investment. he was against the wall. republicans were against the wall. didn't he call him crazy or something during the campaign? >> oh, he called him a lot of things during the campaign. >> if the republican party nominates him, they deserve to be destroyed? >> this is where president trump continues to have a lot of sway, with republican primary voters. lindsey graham up for reelection likely to face some kind of challenge from his right. that is one thing we talked about the president's weakness with republicans now that we're beginning to see that he also continues to have some strength. >> well, he does but if you're a republican senator,or sit heari --

you're sitting there and here are your alternatives. you're going to have this shut double pla shutdown, you're not going there or this emergency declaration that will put you in a worse position or you're going to have the wall go down. if you're a republican senator, none of those are a good choice. >> michael, this is yet again -- i was just going to say one of my favorite activities is going out and talking to people who ask me when i stopped becoming a conservative because that allows me to basically repeat my 1994 campaign agenda and i'll say free trade. where are you on free trade? i'm still for it. balanced budgets? where are you because i'm still for it. nato, russia. you just go down the list of the

20 things i ran on in 1994. you know another one? an out-of-control executive branch. an imperial presidency that would actually usurp constitutional powers from other branches. this is, and i think my fellow conservative brothers and sisters not tainted by the stench of totyism for donald trump would agree with me here that actually this is one of the least conservative with a capital c and a lower case c moves that donald trump has ever made. the suggestion that if he can't get what he wants through the normal give and take of madisonian democracy, he'll declare a national emergency and seize the money, seize the power, seize the authority from the article i branch. >> well, what it speaks to is

just how not donald trump's dummy down of the political process but how all those around him are dummying it down as well, moving away from those values and those principles that you ran on, that i ran on when i ran for the u.s. senate. >> when we ran on it, when i'd say something like that, everybody in the town would immediately go, yeah! talking about balancing budgets, yeah! we're going to fight an imperialiimperial i president, yeah! we're strong and we can fight anybody, yeah! where have those people gone to that we spoke to, those conservatives that we spoke to for decades, where have they gone? >> i think a lot of them have become disillusioned over the

years by a lot of the things that they thought the republican party stood for and found out it didn't. so they retreated. >> hold on a second. i became disillusioned. i wrote three books. you know what my three books say? the same exact thing. >> it's like reading the exact same book. >> i reread them just to see if i was still a conservative. and i was like how did i get away with writing the three books? my complaint, though, was not that they needed to find this mushy middle, it was that they were too liberal when they came to spending. they were too liberal when it came to not making tough economic choices. they were too liberal when it came to debts. so if you become disillusioned because your party is too liberal, you actually go to a lifelong democrat who wants to seize power from congress in. >> but you go to someone you think is actually going to fight for the very things you believe

you're lying on. so trump made the faustian bargain that if you stick with me, i'm going to go up that hill. the other guys didn't do it, bush didn't do it, reagan didn't even do it. he went after those leading figures in the establishment in a way that animated those voters who stepped back. remember after the 2004 election, what happened? a lot of -- >> it had nothing to do with conservative policy, gene. it had nothing to do with balanced budgets. donald trump promised he wasn't going to balance the budget and he wasn't going to take on entitlement reform. he sounded like nancy pelosi. you know why? because he spent his life contributing to nancy pelosi and rom emanuel and the democratic national committee. so why are you, if you're those people listening to lindsey graham, why are you supporting a guy more liberal than any

republican? >> you said faustian bargain. you're anti-abortion and you want somebody who is at least nominally anti-abortion. you are pro religious freedom and you're probably anti-gay marriage -- >> is that why you support a guy that supports muslim registries? do you understand maybe it will be a pentecostal registry next decade? >> you don't think that far ahead. and you're anti-democrat and you've convinced yourself that nothing, nothing could be worse than having a democrat in the white house. you know, even abandoning every single one of your principles. >> there's a through line here for him not being a conservative and not being a republican. when he decided to run for

president, someone told him building a wall would -- who was that? >> roger stone. build the wall, build the wall. gets him to the white house and he kind of abandons that idea, he cold house, the congress, the senate, the white house. thement meninute it started to away and "the washington post" had a piece that said "trump backs away from wall promise," he hears from ann coulter and he had to remember what it was to be a conservative, we're here with the president on the press mi -- precipice of seizing powers and changing the presidency. >> and lindsey graham wants to rewrite the constitution to do

all the things that republicans are against. >> we have a lot of stories to get to. investigators now probing the president's inauguration, looking for documents on donors, vendors and finances. what's behind the new wide-ranging subpoena. plus, what on earth is going on in virginia? but first here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> i don't think you're talking about that 75 degrees in richmond today, are you? >> amazing. no, we're not, although it's getting hot there. >> let's get into this forecast. for the first time in ten years, chicago is under an ice storm warning. you'd think that would have happened by now. they're expecting the possibility of power outages in northern illinois and areas toward the quad cities, it's going to be tonight until tomorrow morning. ice up to about a quarter of an inch, that's enough to get the power lines to sag and sometimes

snap and tree limbs, too. north of this, as much as two to four to six inches of snow. that's the cold side of the country. now let's talk about this early spring weather that's here for four straight days. yesterday was glorious. today is going to be equally as nice. temperatures are going to soar today. raleigh, new york city 62 degrees. charlotte at 77 degrees. it doesn't significantly cool off in the east until we get to friday. again, enjoy it while it lasts. great travel weather and beautiful early spring-like conditions from florida all the way up to the northeast. washington, d.c. included. i think we have three, maybe four straight days in the 60s in the beginning of februafebruary. unheard of. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

♪ feeling unsure? what if you had some help? introducing the new 2019 ford edge with the confidence of ford co-pilot360™ technology. the most available driver assist techonology in its class. the new 2019 ford edge [ring]n do this. here we go! discover. hi. i like your card. i love all the cashback and security features, but i'm not going to pay an annual fee. i'm just not going to do it! okay. okay? discover has no annual fee on any of our cards. so it wasn't my tough guy act? no. we just don't have any annual fees. that's a relief. i've been working on that for a long time. if we had talked a month ago, that would have been a whole different call. i can imagine. excuse me, sir. can i please have no annual fee? no annual fee on any card. only from discover.

bike, wheels, saddle. i customize everything - that's why i switched to liberty mutual. they customized my insurance, so i only pay for what i need. i insured my car, and my bike. my calves are custom too, but i can't insure those... which is a crying shame. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

♪ ♪ this simple banana peel represents a bold idea: a way to create energy from household trash. it not only saves about 80% in carbon emissions... it helps reduce landfill waste. that's why bp is partnering with a california company: fulcrum bioenergy. to turn garbage into jet fuel. because we can't let any good ideas go to waste. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing.

i think there's a rightful hesitation about removal from office, because obviously you have to consider that to some degree you're overturning an election. impeachment, that's a very high standard. i think that's why we've called for the resignation. we hope that's what the government does. i think that would obviously be less pain for everyone. >> goodness, virginia's republican house speaker renewing calls for governor ralph northam's resignation but stopping short of calling for his impeachment. government northam continues to weigh his options as calls for him to step down intensify. "the washington post" reports that he gathered staff yesterday to apologize for ongoing

controversy around the racist photo and to ask for more time to clear his name. the governor urged staffers not to quit and promised he would make a decision about his fate soon but did not give an exact time frame according to three people familiar with the meetinmeetin meeting. that's one part of the story. meanwhile, the state's lieutenant governor, who could become governor if the governor steps down, is denying sexual assault allegations. "the washington post" says the accuser reached out to the paper after fairfax won election in november of 2017 and before he was inaugurated the following january. she accused him of sexual assaulting her inside his hotel room at the 2004 democratic

national convention before he was married. fairfax says the encounter was con sensual. however, the post says the lieutenant governor, his claim that "the washington post" found significant red flags and inconsistencies within the allegations is incorrect. the reason the paper said it didn't run the story at the time is because reporters couldn't find anyone to corroborate either version. "washington post" executive editor marty baron issued a statement why the paper decided to go ahead and publish the allegation, quote, lieutenant governor fairfax is a public official who may well rise to the position of governor. he began the morning by issuing a statement regarding allegations against him making specific representations about

post reporting that had not resulted in publication. we then had an obligation to clarify the nature of both allegations and our reporting." >> does anybody think it's any coincidence on the eve of potentially my being elevated that that's when this uncorroborated smear comes out? does anybody think that's a coincidence? you don't have to be cynical, you don't have to understand politics to understand when someone is trying to manipulate a process to harm someone as character without any basis whatsoever. >> gene, to say this is an absolute chaotic mess is an understatement. it's not just about richmond. you had college william & mary disinviting the governor. >> steeped in history. you know, washington, jefferson, madison and so for the college of william&mary, which takes it

very seriously to disinvite the governor is a huge deal. >> and the university of virginia now -- yet we're in a situation you have a cloud hanging over the lieutenant governor, an allegation from fro 2004. >> it's a mess all around. as far as the governor is concerned, he's been abandoned by every major democrat and most republicans, september those who are crying crocodile tears over the political difficulty the democrats are in. he's been totally abandoned. he's all alone. he has no real support. so it is not viable for him to continue as governor, in my view. i don't see how he governs. but -- >> what's next? he steps down? the lieutenant comes in and then the same calls will come for the

lieutenant to resign if this woman comes forward? >> the lieutenant governor fairfax was and we'll see, is a complete rising star in politics, who has a fascinating history, named fairfax after fairfax county and his ancestors were enslaved on the fairfax foundation. it was an incredible story when he was sworn in as lieutenant governor, second. to hold that position after doug wilder. he had his great, great, great grandfather's papers in his pocket. >> we've read the stories. it's storextraordinarily moving can cthe same party say that

brett kavanaugh couldn't sit on the supreme court -- >> this will be litigated in the court of blackopiniopublic pin. that's what's going to happen. >> we need more information on this. i do think we have a lot of information when it comes to the governor. politicians survive scandals, president trump has, president clinton did. you need your base to stick with you. the governor -- >> his news conference was the self-inflicted final straw. >> it doesn't matter if that picture depicts him, he now says it doesn't. he acknowledged wearing black face and impersonating michael jackson as an adult. we don't know where the story with the lieutenant governor is going to lead us. we need to know more --

>> only at the press conference could the governor's wife stop him from moon walking. >> she could not stop him from giving tips on putting black shoe polish on your face. this guy was accused during the campaign of being a bag of mulch by democrats who were upset that he was not doing better than he was doing. i think that may have actually been an insult to a bag of mulch. >> and yet his position is it was not me in that photograph, here i am telling you about the michael jackson black face and the moon walking, but it's not me in that photograph, i'm not going anywhere. the question is how long is that a sustainable position -- >> it's not sustainable. it's the whole context of that press conference. at one point he continued to kind of imply that it was just the times, it was 1984, right?

so who knew that black face was racist. >> the reason you have lieutenant governor fairfax now or intimating that the governor's team may have had a hand in getting this story out. it gives the governor some breathing room. that slows this process down. this woman comes out and is more public in her testimony. i understand by reporting from "the washington post" that she's gotten a lawyer now. so that means that there are some more legs to this potentially, and that in terms of the northam situation slows the process down. >> like with brett kavanaugh it seems like the story is being forced out. >> most troubling for fairfax is

that this woman actually voluntarily reached out to the "washington post" after he was elected and before the inauguration. so it does add complications. what's so fascinating and, again, i am making fun of no northam and the way he handled himself in the press conference. i don't know if making fun is the right word, it was horrifying. and yet you read reports from virginia that actually he was a pretty effective governor, that he worked with republicans and democrats and expansion of medicaid, getting a lot done. >> and that's a problem. there were a couple of monen on the street interviews done and it was interesting to hear people say the same thing, he's been an effective governor, we like his policies and they are at least trying to find some kind of way to create some space to not so much forgive him but not use that as the cudgel to sort of push him out.

i think the way northam is looking at this is if i have that kind of sort of pause in this process, to his point, gives me a chance to go out and prove that the allegations aren't true. i don't know how you do that given the photo evidence. >> not given the skills he's showing. >> i don't think you can. but the question is -- >> he doesn't even know what he doesn't know. >> where do democrats go from here, though, susan? if you were looking at northam leaving and you're looking at fairfax stepping up and having a woman from 2004 with a lawyer accusing him of sexual assault against, again, the backdrop of last summer's brett kavanaugh hearings for a party that has zero tolerance, that drove al franken out of town because he was accused, he denied the charges, that he placed his hands on women during pictures. >> and this is a change in a

space of, what, two years, that there is zero tolerance. it is a reflection of how democrats have viewed president trump's presidency, that they will not allow someone who has behaved in an inappropriate way in the past -- >> or somebody who has been accused of. you can't actually say that justin fairfax behaved in an inappropriate way. you can't say that. but you have to say he's accused. >> yes, you do. >> we don't know that. >> i'm sorry, we got to speak english. >> it is important. let's just stop. i know alex has told to us go to break 30 times. it is important for us in the media to take a pause because i know mika was issuing these warnings very carefully during the brett kavanaugh hearings and every time she did it --

>> who i thought was unfit, by the way. >> she would get absolutely secured. there is something in mrk called d -- america called due process and if you're at a loss, you're going to pay. >> and i'm at a loss about al fra franken. they're all accused. tell me where we go from here on this one. that's the conversation with me too, where do we go from here? justin fairfax, what if he's completely innocent? what if he didn't do this? what if he did and who are we to say? >> the marker has been laid down. >> it's hard. >> the standard is believe women. if you believe women, you've got to listen to this woman's story. maybe she'll come out publicly and tell her story. here's a radical thought. we should follow the facts of

the case. >> we have not heard the story. we don't know. virginia is totally ill equipped to deal with this. governors only serve one four-year term. they can't be re-elected. they don't know how to do impeachment. we don't know. >> kellyanne conway also weighed in on the northam controversy. >> the president said he thinks it's unforgivabablunforgivable, unconscionable. you can go back to his words he said, gee, it wasn't me, i didn't do it. >> that would be president trump who once apologized for the "access hollywood" tape but then began raising the prospect that it may not be him on the tape after all. so ahead, new polling shows 43%

of americans would like to see president trump face a primary challenger heading in to 2020, but trump's campaign is reportedly taking steps to make sure that doesn't happen. "morning joe" is coming right back. >> are you still able to moon walk? >> inappropriate circumstances. >> my wife says inappropriate circumstances. riate circumstances. (clapping) every day, visionaries are creating the future. ( ♪ ) so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and on-time. (ringing) ( ♪ )

the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it. got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today. and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team. the team? gooo team... order online pickup in an hour. and, now save big at the buy 2 get 1 free event. at office depot officemax. this round is on me. hey, can you spot me? come on in! find your place, today, with silver sneakers... included with many medicare plans. call the number on the screen now or visit

getsilversneakers.com

tonight he delivered mass in front of some 135,000 attendees in abu dhabi. the catholic church estimates as many as 1 million of the 9 million people living in the uae are catholic. it came as he seeks to promote peace and improve relations. justice ruth bader ginsburg attended a production of "notorious rbg" in song at the

institute of women at the arts. she has been working at home. her absence has had some fearing the worst but her family said she's on track for a full recovery, walking a mile a day and resuming sessions with her private trainer. >> and the patriots' 13-3 victory on sunday was the lowest scoring super bowl in history and preliminary ratings also reveal the lowest viewership of an nfl championship since 2009 with the household rating down by 5% compared to last year. viewership was especially low in the city of new orleans are where only about a quarter of the market tuned -- wow, that's lashing out -- tuned in following the saints' controversial loss in the nfl championship. >> i think they should play one more game, patriot/saints, super bowl.

>> i feel i earned it for actually watching that super bowl, i think i've earned -- >> it says it was a bad call. >> they say the commercials was better than the game. >> that was a terrible football game. i watched all the way through but it was a terrible game. >> up next, much more on the documents federal prosecutors are demanding from the trump inaugural committee. "morning joe" is coming right back. one hour pickup order? got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today. and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team. the team? gooo team...

order online pickup in an hour. and, now save big at the buy 2 get 1 free event. at office depot officemax. and, now save big at the buy 2 get 1 free event. the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a few years old or dinosaur old,

we want to buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate, answer a few questions, and our techno-wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds. when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot, and pick up your car. that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car and say hello to the new way... at carvana. and the kids chose medieval faire. they wanna hit the bullseye. you need to hit the atm. good thing you chose hampton, with free hot breakfast. book at hampton.com for our price match guarantee. hampton by hilton.

today in black history month, we're highlighting harriet jacobs. from an early age, she fought to avoid sexual exploitation by the man who claimed her as property, eventually escaping and hiding herself in a small crawl space for years to keep watch over her children. she would eventually make her way to the north and tell her story in an autobiographycalled

"incidents in the life of a slave girl." >> i was watching a show on reesy taylor, a young woman who was raped in the 1950s and how her case was handled, or not handled, at that time. and it got me thinking about the impact that slavery and segregation have on the black community but specifically on black women, as we talk about in this political cycle the emergence of the black female voice in politics. i came across this story. it's a profoundly interesting story. she's the first african-american woman to write an autobiography, to tell her story the way she did. and it got published and it got picked up and all of a sudden you got an inside view of what it was like to be a black woman

in slavery and how, you know, sli slave owners and others treated to the just their bodies but the emotigtional impact. she was in an attic for seven years watching others raise her children because they were trying to come after her. >> that's amazing. >> susan page, what are you looking for tonight? >> can he turn things around? >> even with the greatest orator, it has to be part of a consistent message and pattern. the speech the white house says he's going to give about comity and building our bridges is inconsistent with his behavior leading up to this and i suspect to the approach he's going to take coming out of this, we still could have a shutdown on february 15th. that is entirely possible, not

because congress can reach a deal, congress can reach a deal in 15 minutes but they're not sure the president will take it. >> gene, what are you looking for tonight? could be more exciting than the super bowl. >> that's a low bar. >> he's going to try to do two things. apparently he's going to say let's join hands and sing and on the other hand he's going to say have i have to have my wall. those two messages delivered by teleprompter trump to not teleprompter trump. >> we'll give you the lay of the land on tonight's state of the union, including negotiations to keep the government open past the 15th. plus the president nominates someone from the swamp to be the next interior secretary. "morning joe" is back in a moment. a moment

about 50% of people with evesevere asthma k? have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens.

headache and sore throat may occur. haven't you missed enough? ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. a lot will happen in your life. wrinkles just won't. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair's derm-proven retinol works so fast, it takes only one week to reveal younger looking skin. neutrogena® with expedia, i saved when i added a hotel to our flight. so even when she grows up, she'll never outgrow the memory of our adventure. unlock savings when you add select hotels to your existing trip. only with expedia. welcome back it "morning joe." that's where it's all going to happen tonight. it's tuesday, february 5th.

we have michael steele, host of kcdc, kasie hunt is with us, pulitzer prize winner and author of "fear: trump in the white house," bob woodward joins the table today. so account president turn things around or get his wall tonight in the state of the union? >> no. not in the speech he can't. i thousands susan touched on a very good point at the end. it's not just a speech. if this is a speech followed by a strategy, followed by a consistent approach towards congress, then it could happen. but there is -- bob has written the book on donald trump and, bob, have you found any evidence whatsoever that donald trump has in him the ability to engage in long-range legitimaslative plan? >> no. >> any? >> and what is the saddest part

of this is when you look at what the job of the president is to figure out what the next stage of good is for a majority of people in the country, it never comes up in the internal debates. it's the ideas he has and the behavior and i think in this moment it's worth asking the question why is he like this? why does he do this? why is he immune from other ideas and pressures? and i think it's because he -- there's a self-validation when you get to the presidency for anyone, but for someone like him with a big ego, for someone like him who never held elective office, hey, i got here, i did it, i'm the man, my ideas are not just important but are going

to dominate. and so we get somebody who i think may be certainly of the nine presidents i've written about, he's the most isolated. >> were you surprised by the story that came out yesterday, the leak that came out, about donald trump's, quote, executive time, that some days he would only spend two 30-minute meetings and spend the rest of his time on twitter or watching cable news? >> well, he's busy, though, he's doing things, talking to people and watching television and providing his own commentary. i mean, he is the nation's talk show host, not just publicly but privately within the white house and he will present his theories and then again it's the -- i mean, talk about a wall, there is the wall around him and of course he does not know what his

self-interest is. so he'll get this is the way i feel about things and people will try, no, no, it's better to do it this way. he's not listening. >> that is the shocking thing, how often he acts against his own self-interest. kasie, it appears republicans have had just about enough. you have mitch mcconnell talking about no education from the second kick of a mule, possibly third kick of a mule yesterday. mitch mcconnell and every republican in the united states senate save three rejected donald trump's call for a speedy retreat from afghanistan and syria. it seems that republicans just may be finding their voice and perhaps have had enough of a president whose poll numbers keep going down. >> and in the case of the wall, it's the specter of having to publicly break with this president that has this national emergency becoming such an issue among republicans because the way it would work in congress is

it would come up in the house, it would therefore be privileged in the senate. so mcconnell can't not have a vote on it. that sets up this incredibly potentially embarrassing showdown. >> and mcconnell has already told the president -- >> bad plan. bad plan. exactly. there is incredible frustration with what bob was just talking about, which is this president is not just isolated and thinks his own -- ignoring the advice of his advisers, he's erratic and changing his mutual fund from day to day. so a commitment that you get to him on monday about what you're going to do doesn't necessarily hold true on thursday and as you know, joe, congress takes a bit of time to work. that span of time and the phone call the president took is upend everything and it's incredibly embarrassing. >> nobody knows that more than nancy pelosi, who will be

sitting behind him. i wonder if she claps and how much. that will be fun to watch. >> i think you're going to see a more stoic nancy. she'll have that reserved face about her and particular will, as we know the president will do, will go off script. he's going to be believing words he does not believe in, that's off the teleprompter. in those moments had he's physically revulsed by what he's reading, he's going to go off script. in that moment i'm going to watch nancy and how she basis. >> it comes from not on republicans but also democrats who have tried to negotiate with donald trump about this very issue. we remember him sitting around the room talking to everybody and turning to dianne feinstein

saying whatever grand deal you make on immigration, you write it, i'll sign it. he backed off that. and then there was the day that mike pence, vice president of the united states, went up to the mill and sahill, said okay, for 5.7, you all are at 2.7, we'll take 1.5. then the president humiliates and undercuts mike pence in front of a group of congressional leaders. >> that's why they call negotiating with the president like negotiating with jello. you can't nail him down on anything. the president is going to be preaching the need for a wall about a group of people who have made up their minds.

we're only ten days away from the next shutdown deadline. nancy pelosi has said there will be no funding for a border wall in legislation. so if that's not there, that leaves the president only with the option of a national emergency. >> but that's not an option. >> he says i'm not walking away from the wall. if he walks away from the wall, he loses the pool of people he has left behind him in that base. that leaves us with a national emergency. >> he can't declare a national emergency for the reasons we spoke of before. he would be humiliated by his own party, the supreme court, conservative supreme court would humiliate him. and you also, bob, this is not happening in a vacuum. it's not just happening in -- it's not just us and the media that are going to be watching this or people inside the house of representatives that believe this is an unpopular idea. it polls terribly among the american people. less than one in four americans

support supported donald trump shutting down the government for a wall. you can go back to 2016. there has never been majority support for a wall. it's hovered around the mid 30s. >> it's not about public opinion. does it make any sense to build a wall like this? no, it does not. empirically it does not stand any test. i think the interesting question is how does trump get out of the jam he's in? because he's in a cornered. >> by being in a jam, he's putting the democrats in jam also and he's putting the country in a jam over $6 billion. so try to think ahead how to -- joe, you've done this. when you have a negotiation and both sides are dug in, do you get to a point where somebody's going to give or is it one for

you, one for me? is it possible that -- i mean, michael steele would know about this. is it possible that the democrats can come out and say, okay, we'll give you the wall, we want, a, b and c. >> that's the only way out of it. a grand deal is the only way out of it because nancy pelosi's not going to give a dollar. you're going to have to come up with a deal that they had before, which steven miller by all reports vetoed. and that is daca for some moderate funding for the wall. >> and it was the vehicle that helped get him elected, the wall that mexico was going to pay for. now it's the very thing that has him cornered, kasie. the options are to come up with a grand bargain. but if you look at the way trump defines success or winning a negotiation, it won't be a grand bargain. he will lose.

there's no way of defining in trump's terms how he could win this and get his wall. >> members of congress are already signaling that they think they're going to have a deal potentially by this friday. that's when they think that they need to be done in order to -- >> what are the outlines of the deal? >> we're still kind of looking at that. but it wouldn't be that far off from what we were talking about, you know, before the -- or as the government shutdown was under way, perhaps some trade-offs on some of these visa programs, perhaps democrats giving more money for border security -- >> and he'll just say it's for a wall. >> exactly. >> the president will look at the contours of the deal and say i won. and nancy pelosi is out there in saying in very strict terms no money for the wall. however, democrats who are involved that are saying of course not a wall, however,

perhaps some barriers and perhaps some additional fencing where p.b.c. says it wants it. congress is working as it does, that you have to swallow some things you don't want but they all can claim victory. but this president is so unpredictable. that's why they're seeing he has to do a national emergency, it's the only way to get him to stop. >> why donald trump is so ill suited for this job, if you talked to any president that was worth their weight in salt, at least, if you talk to any lawyer who's a mediator, they will tell you the best deals are the deals where everybody walks away from the table unhappy, which means that everybody negotiated, everybody gave up something that they didn't want to give up and everybody moved the country ahead a little bit. but donald trump doesn't think that way.

rudy giuliani told us early in the 2016 campaign when he still wasn't supporting donald trump. he said i've never seen anything like him before. everybody goes into negotiation and they try to get something for everybody. so everybody can leave and he said happy. for donald trump it's always a zero sum game. he always has to win and everybody else always has to lose. you come to washington with that mindset, i can tell you, you're going to be the biggest loser. >> but again, i just wonder is there a way the democrats where nancy pelosi can say, okay, look, this is unnecessary, it's a small amount of money, we have to break the gridlock in the name of getting out of this absurd box we're in. let's give him something and we get something and on trump's side i think the interesting question is and you make a very important point, he does not

like to lose, there is a way to give in and lose gracefully. ronald reagan, the great tax cutter, actually raised taxes, business taxes in the mid 80s and they said, wait a minute, that's inconsistent. you're the tax cutter. and he walked away and he literally kicked himself in the rear end for the cameras. everyone laughed and said, okay, that's what we're doing. and is there a way trump can put himself in the posture that show as little -- it's hard for him -- humility and say, okay, hey, i'm going to go along with this and get out of this mess? it is -- look at all the things, the issues that are on the table that really we should be talking about -- everyone in government should be talking about north korea, about the federal

deficit. people think this is -- how about china and the tariffs? that is a giant deal that is going to affect everyone. so we're off chasing this mouse. >> donald trump keeps chasing this and he's talking about sending even more troops to the border. he keeps creating a crisis at the border that doesn't exist, michael steele, and yet how does he mack a deal now? when he had the opportunity when the republicans controlled the house and senate to get three times the amount of money for his wall in exchange for a daca deal, that according to reports steve miller and other hardliners vetoed. >> i think other things came together in the moment for the president and the wall. it really wasn't the kind of priority coming in.

as we all know now, it was to help him to remember to talk about immigration. but he realized was that was the hook with this base. that was the hook that would keep those numbers around 38, 40%. >> he could feel it in the crowds. >> he could feel it in the crowds when he raised it and it became the political punch line that opened up a whole world of possibilities for him to drive the base in a certain direction. i've always said from the very beginning of this thing that the sweet spot is going to be certainly that drft can walk away and look at ann coulter and go, see, i got your wall. and nancy pelosi can say we're not paying for a wall. we're paying for bored are security. >> i don't see how that's possible, the reality of it. >> but he'll just say it. at the end of the day, to your point, bob, it doesn't matter what washington does.

>> again, though, the democrats don't have to do anything. >> they don't. >> donald trump has the support of less than one in four americans. 24% of americans, to shut down the government over a wall. i suspect those numbers will be even lower. why if i'm sitting in nancy pelosi's position or chuck schumer's position would i give him a a dime for the wall until he came my way significantly? >> so part b. part b then comes next friday where the president after going through all these negotiations finds himself up against the wall and not really willing to, you know, try to save face and capitulate. nancy, to your point, says not getting any money for a wall. national emergency. here's the political play there. he drops that bright shiny object in the middle of the table and watch everybody, the courts, the politicians, everybody scramble over that

little piece and donald trump goes off and does whatever donald trump wants to do next, start talking about north korea, start talking about china trade while everybody is talking about the constitution aality and legality of what he just did. >> nancy pelosi. she can say if you want to take cameras there and she can look and say, yeah, we gave him his wall and let her voters know that she actually won. >> again, i ask the question why should she? >> i'm saying she's not actually doing that. >> she can say she's got people on the conference committee, the appropriations chairwoman, they're very close. she can say, look, they got a deal, we didn't give them a dollar for the wall.

but she's never going to give trump rhetorically what he wants. i think the reason graham is saying you have to get behind him on the emergency is it's the only way to get trump to stop talking about it. that doesn't mean he supports policy. i'll bet you he doesn't. >> no, he doesn't support the wall. he said last year it was a bad investment. bob, getting back to nancy pelosi and saying why she shouldn't make a deal, donald trump has invented this crisis out of whole cloth. immigration, illegal immigration into this country from mexico has been down for over a decade. 90% of the drugs that come into this country come in through legal ports of entry. >> it's not even on the list of big problems. except in trump's mind. >> the intel chiefs come forward with all the threats across the

globe. the southern border. not even mentioned. i could list donald trump's top ten arguments, every one of them are a lie. every one of them are made up out of thin air. so if i'm nancy pelosi or chuck schumer, i think it's irresponsible to give this guy a billion dollars in tax money for a political punch line. >> okay. but there are lots of irresponsible things done. and here is the answer to your question, why should pelosi at least consider trying to do something, take the high road, i'm going to end the gridlock? reality that president -- a sitting president, even one having the difficulty he's having has incredible power. there is concentration of power in the presidency. wee studied it, we've written about it, it is there in his

hands. it is in the end not manse maps oo pelosi's in her interest to crush trump, because if you crush trump, then he's going to really fly off the handle. as we know, capable of doing all kinds of things with that presidential power, which he has not exercised here. so what's in the national interest? it's got to come up. >> stay with us. robert schultz has a potential rocky bid and now he's tabing i -- taking issue with the term billionaire, preferring instead we use people of means. that's ahead on "morning joe." that's ahead on "morning joe."

that rocking chair would look great in our new house. ahh, new house, eh? well, you should definitely see how geico could help you save on homeowners insurance. nice tip. i'll give you two bucks for the chair. two?! that's a victorian antique! all right, how much for the recliner, then? wait wait... how did that get out here? that is definitely not for sale! is this a yard sale? if it's in the yard then it's... for sale. oh, here we go. geico. it's easy to switch and save on homeowners and renters insurance. so we improved everything. we used 50% fewer ingredients added one handed pumps and beat the top safety standards

the new johnson's® choose gentle sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 24-month financing on all smart beds. only for a limited time.

nothing can prepare you to hear those words... stage 2 breast cancer. i have three little kids. i can't have cancer. so we decided to travel to cancer treatment centers of america. dr. fernandez was wonderful. he said it was up to me to do what's best. it's about giving her options, where amy has all the information to make a decision that's best for her. we left on day one feeling like we're gonna beat this and this is the place that's gonna help us do it...

that feeling is priceless. learn more at cancercenter.com. appointments available now. in honor of my dad, who was alzheimer's. i decided to make shirts for the walk with custom ink, and they just came out perfect. - [announcer] check out our huge selection of custom apparel for every occasion. you'll even get free shipping. get started today at customink.com.

as you may have heard, howard schultz, the former ceo of starbucks is thinking about running for president and he's taken issue with the term billionaire. in an interview he suggested that moniker may be a bit toxic these days. here's what he said. >> the moniker billionaire now has become the catch phrase. i would rephrase that and i would say that people of means have been able to leverage their wealth and their interests in ways that are unfair. and i think that speaks to the inequality. but it also directly speaks to the special interests that are

made for by people of wealth and corporations who are looking for influence. >> we had howard last week on our show. one of the things he talked about was i thought you lived the american dream, i thought that's what you wanted. i grew up in brooklyn and became the ceo of one of the most successful corporations in the world, what am i being attacked for? >> well, people of means, billionaires, have been able to leverage the system in their direction and perhaps there's some responsibility to average it out, however you want to put it, comprehensive tax reform, or other means, philanthropy, which he does. >> you look at elizabeth warren's 2% tax on people worth more than $50 million and aoc's

70% tax on people after they've made 10 million, for all the money after they've made their 10th million dollar. warren's is more popular but they are both very popular tax bills and they suggest there is room for democrats and republicans for these populous tax styles. >> i have issues with the claim of somebody capping my earth ni potential and then to place the onus to me to be the philanthropist to all things. i think the interests around the table is the idea that we can have this debate we haven't had.

what is a middle class tax cut look like and how do you put that in place? do you generate the kind of revenue when you're taxing the wealth above a certain amount at 70%? do you generate the revenue you need -- >> i think a healthy economy generates more revenue. >> that's what you need to look at in terms of where these progressives are making these proposal, not just what the proposals are but how they make that argument. when you get to the nitty-gritty, americans know that the tax man will come back to them at some point, too. >> i think they're out of touch with the country. polling shows people support a tax on the wealthy. don't see see the issue as ho howard schultz, you're right, i came from nothing and now i have everything.

the problem is they see these millionaires and billionaires and they see them building a system for their family they they're continuing to benefit, they see that as the problem, not achieving the american dream. why did donald trump get elected by republicans? where is the entirety of the democratic party right now? my question for howard schultz, less about is he going to guarantee donald trump gets reelected, who is his constituency? there's 2,200 billionaires in the world. who is going to vote for howard schultz? >> donald trump was going to break up the global elite system and here he's passed a tax cut -- >> trump likes to say he's a billionaire and some say he might not be as big as he says.

i think you have to be careful with language here to turn the clock back a couple of decades. railroad al gore's, oh, there's no controlling legal authority on making phone calls to raise money? that lived with him. and this idea of let's have an alternative description of billionaires by calling -- by sayeri saying they're people of means -- >> because they need something else to make their lives easier. i mean -- >> softer cushion. >> language matters and particularly when you are in the spotlight like the former ceo of starbucks is. >> i will say if, willie, if somebody's going to make the argument from the right that elizabeth warren, kamala harris, others are engaging in class warfare, one of the strongest retorts to that has always come

from warren buffett, who says, yes, there is a class war going on and my side won a long time ago. >> capital gains tax, his famous line at that he pays less tax than his secretary does. when we had howard schultz on last week, we asked him why not take this case if you believe there is a constituency for your argument here and run for the democratic party. you've been a democrat your whole life, make that case within that. he said, well, if i got into the primary, i'd have to be so far left just to be considered that i can't win there. he believes the party has drifted so far to the left like people with elizabeth warren and people like ocasio-cortez -- >> by the way, that's a misreading of the democratic party. but listen, though. i'm not just saying that about howard schultz. everybody is saying it and everybody is wrong because if you look at polls, every poll that comes out of democrats and

the question is asked, kasie, and you know this, would you rather the party become more progressive or more moderate? the majority of the people in at least the most recent polls and chris matthews showed this last night by a pretty good margin say we want to become a more moderate party. that's the first part of this. the second part of this is right now democrats would elect a bag of mulch if they knew that bag of mulch would defeat donald trump in 2020. so that is the overriding factor on any decision, ideology matters far, far less. >> maybe he should call himself a moderate billionaire. >> i think you're right. our polling shows and this is what joe biden's team is looking at as he enters his final stage of trying to make his decision. the question is what do they mean by moderate?

and one reality about these questions of fairness, i really think what we're talking about is an economic shift to the left is really becoming a much more mainstream idea, that the income inequality has become so extreme that you've pushed a vast segment of voters they are far from this segment of people that control the system. hillary clinton got very badly bitten by this in 2016 when she made the mistake in her time out of office giving speeches to goldman sachs and coming across as she is the person -- >> there's a resentment. >> it really is. it's a repudiation of the lessons that the clintons learned in the 90s, you had to give these tax cuts to businesses, walk down the middle of this economic road if you want to get elected. perhaps it because i covered so many bernie sanders rallies in

addition to covering donald trump, i think the ground has shifted on this issue. kamala harris is selling it as a middle class tax cut as opposed to raising taxes on the rich. the end result is still the same. >> i agree with you. i think over the past two or three years but especially since 2008, since the collapse in 2008, i think you can actually mark politically the era of reaganism and sort of this anty tax reaganism from 1978, you remember prop -- what is it, prop 8? >> prop whatever it was. >> i can't believe i've forgotten that. >> prop 78? prop something. i'm getting old! 1978 you can mark from that point to 2008 and americans were instinctively anti-tax because they had been too overtaxed for too many years. i really do think that's changed dramatically now, mika. i do think whoever gets elected

president of the united states can run on taxing wealthier americans and will not only get support from democrats, they'll also get support from quite a few republicans. >> bob woodward, thank you for being on. and just ahead, we'll bring in the new york city david leonhart, whose latest column is "what's really radical is not taxing the rich." plus our next guest said there's only one reason why thousands of troops are being deployed to the border and it not to stop a caravan of migrants. our guest says it's a situation for the president to set up for a declaration of a national emergency. anthony brown joins us next on "morning joe." n joins us next on "morning joe."

welcome to fowler, indiana. one of the windiest places in america. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here...

the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed. or... not. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing.

joining us now, vice chair of the house armed services committee, democratic congressman anthony brown of maryland. also with us columnist and deputy page editor from "the

washington post." >> last week the house armed services committee had a hearing. senior defense figures caofficin and laid out their strategy or lack of a strategy. assured us 2,300 was the number for active duty and i think that's too high to begin with -- >> 2,300 active duty at the border? >> yes. >> doing what? >> laying barbed wire. >> they've been doing that since thanksgiving. >> you had 5,900 back in november. they took about 3,000 home and now they're back laying more wire. this is not what men and women on active duty sign up for. they don't need to be on the border doing that. keep in mind there are 3,000 vacancies at the custom and border protection agency today. quite frankly fill those

positions, let them do the border mission, let our active duty troops do what they train to do, which is fight rethreats -- real threats in afghanistan or wherever they may be. >> what do we expect tonight in the state of the union? >> he will offer words of comity and unity and democrats will take him at his word and the whole world will get together and cheer. >> ruth! >> offering an olive branch is better than not offering an olive branch. you have to put a lot of grains of salt on that olive branch after two years and after a shutdown and in the face of the potential for an emergency declaration. all words, words, words, as

eliza doolittle said. >> an emergency declaration would be to deal with the crisis. i've heard him say several times publicly we've got two caravans and there's another one coming. what are the two we got? how did our u.s. military do that? what is he talking about? what is he talking about? >> it was the point i was trying to make last blog. how do you net wigotiate with somebody who makes up facts out of thin air? if you're nancy pelosi, first of all you've tried to negotiate with this guy before and he's always moved the goalposts, he's always changed what he's required at the last minute when you did finally sit down and talk to him and now his arguments actually aren't based in fact at all. so if you're speaker of the house and you've got a $22 trillion national debt, you're really going to give $6 billion

away so he as a punch line and a campaign event that's not attached to reality? you can't do that. that's too irresponsible. >> and where there are actually facts on the ground, they are very often created by the president's and this administration's own policies. so congressman, what is the solution because i know democrats have wrestled with sending more judges to try and adjudicate these asylum cases, potentially more beds for them but that's tricky, right, only because that means you're embracing their policy of housing all of these people instead of allowing them to come into the country as they fight these cases. >> look, the challenge and i won't even call it a crisis on the ground at the border has been created by the administration. we've got, number one, a lot of coverage on, this the separation of families. and then, number two, forcing asylum seekers to seek asylum from mexico and not enter the

united states. that creates some real challenges. yes, you need more asylum judges to adjudicate these cases quickly and i should add that vie litz probably international law and u.s. law but you also need to ensure there's humanitarian assistance there. these caravans are not threats. these are tired people who are hungry, they are fearful, they're fleeing violence and purse ku persecution. so the crisis is created the by administration. the support you need is not active duty military but you need humanitarian aid to the crisis the crispresident has created. >> as someone who fought in iraq yourself, earned a bronze star in the united states army, you're an authority on this subject, you know what you're talking about. should we be pulling out in some way? a lot of people look at this and say we're 18 years almost into

this war in afghanistan, when is the right time to leave? >> on syria i think the consensus is and i support our maintaining a presence there, about 2,000 soldiers. isis is not defeated. while the fiscal caliphate has been shrunk, it's an ideology. a precipitous withdrawal exposes our troops to risk and abandons our allies and partners in syria and it just gives russia an opportunity to run rampant in syria. >> how will you know, congressman, it's time to leave? because most people don't want to be in these countries forever and have men and women like yourself in the line of fire? >> it's condition based. that's what this administration has said, it's not time based. when the conditions suggest that the breeding ground for isis no longer exists and that as an

ideology they cannot flourish, then that's the time to leave. our presence there isn't for direct action, it's to train, advise and assist our partners on the ground. that's true whether it's in syria, afghanistan, west africa, east africa. it's to support our partners and allies on the ground so that they can do the fighting necessary to defeat that extremist, violent threat. >> ruth, i wonder what your thoughts are on the democratic response. i wonder if this is an opportunity for the democrats to talk about some of the key issues that have really plagued this presidency and disappointed many in terms of what it means to be an american, but also for it to be nimble and to respond. because one of the issues with this presidency is keeping americans informed of what is fact and what is fiction. >> i think the democratic response is going to be more interesting than the usual response to the president. >> all the responses are always tough, wrong cameras --

>> wrong cameras -- >> water. i don't really remember what that was. >> it's hard. >> but what a contrast to choose stacey abrams, an african-american woman, and a nonwashington person, completely different face of the party. doesn't have to sort of going to the democratic congressional tension that's going to exist with this administration and with their republican friends in the senate, but can maybe pull the lens back and talk a little bit about the broader challenges facing the country. >> but also respond. if he riffs, there might be something to fact check. not to have something prepared eight hours ahead of time. >> i'm going to bet against a trump rift and against a stacey abrams rift. i'll be back tomorrow morning. you can tell me how dumb i am. >> i do wonder who's advising

bernie sanders, the guy who had trouble with black voters last year, the guy who has now decided that he is going to try to crowd out stacey abrams and also -- >> well, he's doing it at a different time. the best argument for bernie sanders on this is he's done it before so he does it to everybody. his goal is not being mr. popularity, it's getting the attention that he needs for whatever himself plans are. >> as we continue to cover black history month, congressman brown, you wanted to highlight the new oversight committee chairman congressman elijah cummings from maryland, our friend. >> folks ask me who are your role models and mentors, mine is elijah cummings. i've admired him since his days in the maryland general assembly, i was in the general assembly and now his work in congress. i don't know of any member of congress who both has a command of the work in congress and a

connection to his community. >> yes. >> and he does both very well and he's certainly someone who i aspire to be like in my days in congress. >> good choice. >> we were talking about deals before. i worked with elijah, he was ranking member when i was chairman of a committee that was trying to provide long-term care to federal employees. and i had a more free market approach and his approach was different. but we just sat down and figured it out. we got everybody out of the room, sat down, figured out how to do it and what i loved about elijah was his word was gold. if elijah told me something, i could take it back to my caucus, i could take it back to the leadership and say this is going to happen. >> are you drawing a distinction there? >> well, and that is the problem with dealing with donald trump. again, i could give you five examples just on this border wall where -- >> the ceilings might be painted

gold. his words aren't gold. >> his words aren't worth anything in negotiations. >> elijah is going to present an opportunity if the president truly wants to be bipartisan, his prescription drug bill that elijah has in to make prescription drugs more affordable, words may be used today about comity and bipartisanship tonight but let's see if the president can put those words into action around elijah's prescription drug bill. >> elijah has a history of bringing people together, wouldn't you say? >> thank you, willie. >> ruth marcus, thank you as well. coming up, much more on the political crisis in virginia and why "the washington post"'s karen timilty says the governor resigning should just be a start. more "morning joe" in just a moment.

(clapping) every day, visionaries are creating the future. ( ♪ ) so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and on-time. (ringing) ( ♪ ) the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it.

all right. joining us now, op-ed columnist for the "new york times" david

leonhardt and columnist for "the washington post" thing. it's important to nut in the context of what's happened in this country in the last 40 years. middle class people, lower income class people had very little gain in wealth and slow gain in income. what do we do about that. people at the top have huge gains. to me the status quo is the radical thing. >> i agree. i feel like these concepts have come up in the past. pushed off to one side or another as a socialist. we're at a point where the inequality it's grave. it's a grave situation. you have people with heliopads and $4 million boats and people who can't afford lunch.

it's in the system. >> if only our sagoldman sachs friends would hire us. >> americans would be okay if everyone is doing well. >> everybody beliefs thone belid happen. should people be living in squaw lower comparatively? >> live expectancy in this country has fallen which suggests something is wrong. >> i totally agree. >> at the same time you can look at a lot of economic indicators, look at unemployment, wages are slowly but surely moving up. you can look at workforce participation. slowly but surely moving up. there are a lot of indicaof ind that things are better for americans overall. i wonder if it's a question the rich are getting richer or the poor are getting poorer or the rich are getting richer at a

much faster pace? >> again the gap that's the important thing. but i think in talking about ways to address it, we do need leaders who are -- who can speak to our aspirations, not just our anger. also being a rich guy doesn't necessarily disqualify you as a messenger here because, you know -- >> not at all. >> the most effective messenger we ever had in our history on these issues was franklin delano roosevelt. >> from the "new york times," by many measures america is thriving. the economy is humming. high school graduation rates are at an all time high and teenage pregnancy rates are at an all time low. the crime rate is low and illegal immigration is down. but many think the country is on the wrong track.

there's indicators we're healthier than ever. life expectancy is going down among certain groups of americans. but if you look at the state of the union, take washington, d.c. and politics out of it, there would be quite a few indicators things are picking up. >> there are some good indicators. when you look how most people experience the economy they weren't on that list. wages, wealth, those indicators don't look very good. how would most americans feel if you said hey the country is doing great but your wealth is going down. i don't feel so great. >> frankly, republicans and conservatives need to make a better counter argument to the elizabeth warren argument, to the alexandria occasio-cortez argument which is to tax the rich. a conservative would say we don't need to pump more money through washington and have it spent the way washington spends it. we need market based solutions. they came with the tax cut that hasn't done anything to shrink

inequality, probably went the other way. they need to make their case better. >> here's a warning to republican politicians running in 2020. what you said before, polls are showing that even a large number of republicans actually support elizabeth warren's plan to put a 2% tax annually on people worth $50 million or more. >> how many people does that affect? for most people who are struggling to get by that rich guy over there, why should he have a problem giving 2% of his millions of dollars. let me play this card for a second. when you look at people who are coming up in this country, what does the american dream look for them? they are saddled with tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars in student debt. struggling to buy homes. their jobs are not necessarily providing the same security that many of you came up with where

we had a system where, you know, there were factories with joins. there were pension plans for teachers. people felt they could count on that. they are working in a lot of times in a gig economy, don't have those support networks and no matter how hard they work, no matter how many hours they put in they feel they can get ahead, can't meet those same markers their parents were able to meet. i would be inned to know what you think about how that plays into the politics of all this. >> the generational aspect on this is big. for democrats the risk is going too far left on social issues and for republicans and moderates the risk is going too far-right on economic issues. >> what's going on in virginia? >> i think -- >> ten seconds or less. take your time. we have all day. >> big high altitude picture. i think this state is about to open a very big conversation on a lot of issues of race that

they have essentially been able to put aside in the past decades. and, you know, ultimately if ralph north does the right thing and steps aside, which i think he must, this could be a healthy thing. >> or he might not. which would be incredible but if he's holding on. >> he's a governor without a party right now. >> that's for sure. thank you both for being on this morning. we'll be reading both of your columns in your respective papers. still ahead senator lindsey graham is one of the few senate republicans saying he would stand behind the president if he declares a national emergency for his border wall. plus we'll talk about the vote on the hill tomorrow that could result in more perjury charges in the russia investigation. morning joe is coming right back. tion] ♪

[friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪ i have... ♪ i but i can tell you i liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i only pay for what i need. oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ this round is on me. hey, can you spot me? come on in! find your place, today, with silver sneakers... included with many medicare plans. call the number on the screen now or visit

getsilversneakers.com ron! soh really? going on at schwab. thank you clients? well jd power did just rank them highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms...again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost and be full service. it's impossible. it's like having your cake and eating it too. ask your broker if they offer award-winning full service and low costs. how am i going to explain this? if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab.

schwab, a modern approach to wealth management. brushing only reaches 25% of your mouth. listerine® cleans virtually 100%. helping to prevent gum disease and bad breath. never settle for 25%. always go for 100. bring out the bold™ val, vern... i'm off to college and i'm not gonna be around... i'm worried about my parents' retirement. oh, don't worry. voya helps them to and through retirement... ...dealing with today's expenses... ...like college... ...while helping plan, invest and protect for the future. so they'll be okay... without me? um... and when we knock out this wall... imagine the closet space. yes! oh hey, son. yeah, i think they'll be fine. voya. helping you to and through retirement.

tonight i have the high privilege and distinct honor of my own as the first president to begin the state of the union message with these words, "madam speaker." [ cheers and applause ] >> 12 years later nancy pelosi will sit in the same seat tonight as a very different republican president delivers the state of the union.

good morning and welcome to "morning joe". it is tuesday, february 5th. we're in washington to cover tonight's state of the union address along with joker willie and me -- >> we're nactually here to cove what's going on in virginia. >> we were just talking about that coming in. >> some real turns. >> with us we have former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele. washington bureau chief for "usa today" susan page and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson, you write about virginia so we'll get to that and what is going on there. it's incredible drama. when president trump takes the podium on capitol hill tonight, he will as joe writes in his new "washington post" column be delivering the state of the union against a grim political backdrop. that backdrop includes low expectations and even lower approval ratings.

a republican party and political class that no longer fears him and 200 miles north of washington in the southern district of new york an investigation into all things trump as federal prosecutors zero in on trump's inauguration as they examine possible benefits to foreign donors. a lot closing in on the president. >> willie, there have been times, i suppose, some of us could remember maybe bill clinton going to congress for a state of the union address. the situation is bad, perhaps a little worse. but, you know, clinton had the ability to actually move the country with him when he spoke. it's something that donald trump has not proven himself capable of doing yet outside of hockey arenas. >> the word from the white house about the speech is that it's going about comity.

it's a little late for that. the president as a unifier is not the right person to deliver that speech. when he goes up there and perhaps talk about the possibility of a national emergency, a declaration of a national emergency, senate republicans now one by one have been coming out, especially yesterday and saying that's a terrible idea led by the majority leader mitch mcconnell. >> susan, that's what's so interesting leading into this. we had republicans that have been blindly loyal to donald trump over the past several years. they get trounced in the mid-terms. the worst election result ever in terms of vote differential and 240 year history of this country. you have the government shutdown that goes terribly and it's donald trump's government shutdown. now you actually do have mitch mcconnell saying that old quote, rarely an education from the second kick of the mule. mitch and the republicans don't

look like they are ready for a third kick of that mule. so they are not ready for confrontation. >> interesting. obviously there's a difference with this state of the union because democrats control house to and it's nancy pelosi sitting over his shoulder. republicans have changed too compared with last year and the year before. just look at the senate vote yesterday on a different measure on a resolution against the precipitous withdrawal of troops from syria and average, direct confrontation to president trump that passed 70-26. that is a warning sign to the white house that they no longer can count on republicans to stick with them no matter what. >> only three republicans, i guess, voting on the same side as the president. everybody else going with mitch mcconnell. >> does that count on that vote? >> it doesn't. >> no. that's extraordinary. you know, we'll see how republicans react closer to home. they do have to look over their

shoulder, those who are facing re-election and potential primary challenges and stuff like that. i mean they have to be wary of getting too far from trump. at the same time susan is right the weather has changed. >> it has. another potential. government shunned looms over the state of the union as a growing number of senate republicans are pushing back at the president's threat to declare a national emergency in order to build his border wall. gop members are increasingly speaking out against the move shooting down possible path for the president to get his wall. in interviews yesterday republicans including senator john cornyn of texas say they have made a number of private and public efforts to steer trump away from going around congress. >> i think it's a dangerous step. one, because of the precedent it sets. two, the president's going to get sued and. it won't succeed in accomplishing his goal.

and third, because i think ms. pelosi may well introduce a resolution of disapproval that will pass the house and then come over here and divide republicans. so, to me, it strikes me as not a good strategy. >> one way of putting it. >> let's mark him down as undecided. >> as you heard senator cornyn say a potential national emergency declaration by the president could result in congress trying to block him by using a resolution of disapproval. if the democratic controlled house passes the resolution, the senate would be forced to take it up and would require just four republican defections along with all the senate democrats to rebuke the president. the president would then be forced to veto the measure intended to block him. >> this is pretty simple. first of all, it's unconstitutional. of all the examples of donald trump's words being used again him by federal judges, no worse

example for donald trump than this where he's basically said, you know what? i'm going to negotiate. if i don't get exactly what i want then i'll declare a national emergency. there's not a federal judge anywhere appointed by any president that would uphold that national emergency but worse than that, michael, and i know you've heard this from republicans just like me. worse than that, it gives future democratic administrations the ability to say, wait a second, this is school shooting. 36 kids were gunned down and killed. this is the third month -- you know what i'm going to do. i'm going to declare a national emergency like donald trump did with the wall. we'll talk about public safety and we're going to go ahead and i'm just going sign into law those national background checks. i'm going to just sign into law a ban on military style assault weapons. i'm just going to sign into law a ban on bump stocks.

>> that would be dealing with an actual emergency. >> and go down the steps. because, again, you actually do have a number of deaths directly related -- >> that's an emergency. >> that's a national emergency most americans would agree. >> i think you've hit it right on the head. it was very interesting the way cornyn laid out his three-point. the first one dealt with what you just raised and the third one dealt with the other political problem they have. that is when it gets to the senate it won't take much to get those defections to walk away from the president and republicans do not want the embarrassment of that, number one. but the other legislative problem is the one you just put your finger on. they know that this all comes back around real soon. potentially in 2020, right? and the reality of a kamala harris or any one of that particular, you know, philosophical point of view in the white house declaring a

national emergency on not just the environment, the environment is going to be easy. on the stuff that cuts to the core of what republicans have been arguing around second amendment, et cetera. >> using donald trump' logic you can make that argument on the environment, you can make that argument on guns, you can make that argument on the national debt where you have economists lining up one after another saying a $22 trillion national deb that continues to spiral out of control is a national economic emergency, it must be taken care of at once. a democratic president, kamala harris decides she will sign into law an emergency repeal of donald trump's tax cuts. again, this is what donald trump is experimenting with, which is why, of course, there is no serious minded republican that would ever support this. you would have to be a bumpkin, a fool, somebody with absolutely no knowledge of politics and the constitution of the united states to think this is a good idea. >> i have one for you.

the person you're describing -- >> what your talking about? >> one top senate republican is warning his colleagues not to resist president trump if he declares a national emergency to get his wall. speaking in his home state of south carolina yesterday senator lindsey graham, the chair mapp of the senate judiciary committee -- >> southern plai >> stop right there. he's the chairman of the senate judiciary committee. the person that you would hope would have a better working knowledge of the united states constitution than anyone else. that really should in a city that is rarely shocked any more, that really should shock people in this city and in this country. >> joe, maybe he'll convince you with his argument. here's senator graham yesterday in south carolina. >> convince us. >> to every republican, if you don't stand behind this president, we're not going to

stand behind you when it comes to the wall. this is the defining moment of his presidency. it's not just about a wall. this is about him being treated different than every other president. >> so senator graham went on the say while he understands some of his republican colleagues have concerns about the precedent that president trump would set by declaring a national emergency, that it is quote, no excuse not to have this president's back now because we're not doing anything exotic here he said. graham also said he doesn't expect congress to come up with a deal to avoid another government shutdown after february 15th so the argument is the national emergency is the only way out to do the president's bidding. >> susan page, it was one lindsey o. graham himself who said last year when republicans actually had control of the house and the senate and the white house and the ability to build a wall, he said it's not

really a good investment. he was against the wall. republicans were against the wall. didn't he call him crazy or something during the campaign? >> oh, yeah. he called him yes. >> the republican party nominates him and deserves to be destroyed. >> president trump continues to have a lot of sway with your republican primary voters. lindsey graham up for re-election. likely to face some kind of challenge from his right. and that is one thing that we talked about the president's weakness with republicans now that we're beginning to see. he also don't have some strength. >> he does. but look if you're a republican senator and sitting there and here are your alternatives. either have another shutdown, right? you're not going there. or you're going to have this emergency declaration that is unconstitutional, it will never work, put you in a worse position. or, you know, you're going to have to have the wall go down.

those are your choices. >> still ahead as if virginia voters didn't already have enough to deal with now it's no longer the state's governor facing scrutiny but also the lieutenant governor as well. the latest on both of those stories next on "morning joe". l. l. but with less carbon footprint. that's why, at bp, we're working to make energy that's cleaner and better. we're producing cleaner-burning natural gas. and solar and wind power. and wherever your day takes you... we have advanced fuels for a better commute. and we're developing ultra-fast-charging technology for evs.. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. so we can all keep advancing. hey, darryl! hey, thomas. if you were choosing a network, would you want the one the experts at rootmetrics say is number one in the nation? sure, they probably know what they're talking about.

or the one that j.d. power says is highest in network quality by people who use it every day? this is a tough one. well, not really, because verizon won both. so you don't even have to choose. why didn't you just lead with that? it's like a fun thing. (vo) chosen by experts. chosen by you. get 50 million songs now with apple music included, on us. on both ios and android. it's the unlimited plan you need on the network you deserve.

got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today. and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team. the team? gooo team... order online pickup in an hour. and, now save big at the buy 2 get 1 free event. at office depot officemax.

so we improved everything. we used 50% fewer ingredients added one handed pumps and beat the top safety standards the new johnson's® choose gentle

i think there's a rightful hesitation about removal from office because, obviously, you have to consider that to some degree you overturn an election. impeachment, that's a very high standard. so i think that's why we've called for the resignation. we hope that's what the governor does. i think that would obviously be less pain for everyone. >> goodness. virginia's republican house speaker renewing calls for governor ralph northam's resignation over a racist photo from the governor's yearbook

page. but stopping short of calling for his impeachment. governor north continues to weigh his options as calls for him to step down intensify. "the washington post" reports that northam gathered cabinet members and staff yesterday to apologize for ongoing controversy around the racist photo and to ask for more time to clear his name. the governor urged staffers not to quit and promised he would make a decision about his fate soon but did not give an exact time frame, according to three people familiar with the meeting. that's one part of the story. meanwhile the state's lieutenant governor who could become governor if northam steps down is denying sexually assaulting a woman inside a boston hotel room in 2004. the allegation against democrat justin fairfax was reported by the same right-wing website that posted the racist photo from

governor ralph northam's yearbook page which he now claims he's not in. "the washington post" says the accuser reached out to the paper after fairfax won election in november of 2017 and before he was inaugurated the following january. she accused him of sexually assaulting her inside his hotel room at the 2004 democratic national convention before he was married. fairfax says the encounter was consensual. however, the "post" says the lieutenant governor, his claim that "the washington post" found significant red flags and inconsistencies within the allegations is incorrect. the reason the paper says it didn't run the story at the time is because reporters couldn't find anyone to corroborate either version. "washington post" executive editor marty barron later issued a statement explaining why the paper decided to publish the uncorroborated allegation.

quote lieutenant governor fairfax is a public official who may well rise to the position of governor. he began the morning by issuing a statement regarding allegations against him making specific representations about "post" reporting that didn't result in publication. we then had an obligation to clarify the nature of both the allegations and our reporting. yesterday fairfax was asked if he believes the governor's team is spreading misinformation about him. >> i don't know precisely where this is coming from. we've heard different things. but here's the thing. does anybody think it's any coincidence on the eve of potentially my being elevated that's when this uncorroborated smear comes out. does anybody believe that's a coincidence? i don't think anybody believes that's a quinn. you don't have to be cynical or under politics but understand when somebody tries to manipulate a process to harm somebody's character without any basis. >> this is a chaotic mess.

that's an under statement. not just about richmond. college william & mary disinvite ing -- >> steeped in history. washington, jefferson, madison and so for the college of william & mary, the second oldest university, which takes it very seriously to disinvite the governor is a huge deal. >> and the university of virginia -- >> right there. >> yet we're in a situation where you have a cloud hanging over the lieutenant governor now, an allegation from 2004. >> it's a mess all the way around. as far as the governor is concerned he's been abandoned by every major democrat and most republicans except those who were crying crocodile tears over the difficulty democrats are in.

he totally is abandoned and all alone. he has no real support. it is not viable for him to continue as governor, in my view. >> what's next? he steps down? the lieutenant governor comes in. >> right. >> then the same calls will come for the lieutenant governor to resign if this woman continues to come forward. >> you know, lieutenant governor, justin fairfax, was and is, we'll see, a complete rising star in virginia politics. who has a fascinating history. his name justin fairfax as in fairfax county. his ancestors were enslaved on the fairfax, lord fairfax's plant jays. incredible story when he was sworn in as lieutenant governor. second african-american to hold that office after doug wilder. he had his

great-great-great-grandfather's he man -- emancipation papers is pocket. >> but the same party said brett kavanaugh couldn't sit on the supreme court because of what he did in high school sit back and say it's okay for this guy to be lieutenant governor. >> zero tolerance in the me too era. so this will be litigated in the court of public opinion, i believe, which is in itself is the nature of the allegation, but that's a what's going to happen. >> up next a look at some other stories making headline including the pope's historic visit to the uae. we'll talk about the significance of that straight ahead on "morning joe".

your enamel is very precious. acidic foods can wear away your enamel. your tooth is going to look yellower, more dull. i recommend pronamel because it helps protect and strengthen your enamel. it's pro enamel. it's the positive thing. ♪

to take care of yourself. but nature's bounty has innovative ways to help you maintain balance and help keep you active and well-rested. because hey, tomorrow's coming up fast. nature's bounty. because you're better off healthy. the company who invented ncar vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a few years old or dinosaur old, we want to buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate, answer a few questions, and our techno-wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds. when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot, and pick up your car. that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car and say hello to the new way... at carvana.

now to some other stories making headlines this morning. pope francis has made history by becoming the first pontiff to visit the arabian peninsula the birth place of islam.

overnight he delivered mass in front of some 135,000 attendees in abu dhabi. the catholic church estimates as many as 1 million of the more than 9 million people living in the uae are catholic. the mass came just a day after pope francis met with muslim and political leaders as he seeks to promote peace and improve relations. justice ruth baden ginsburg has made her first public appearance since undergoing cancer surgery in december. she attended a production of notorious rgg in song for high school students at national museum of women in the arts last night in washington. ruth baden ginsburg has been working from home since her procedure. her absence had some fearing the worst. but ruth baden ginsburg's family says she's on track for a full recovery, walking a mile a day and resuming sessions with her private trainer. pretty good. and the patriots 13-3 victory on sunday was the lowest scoring super bowl in history.

and preliminary ratings for the big game also reveal the lowest viewership of an nfl championship since 2009 with the household rating down by 5% compared to last year. viewership was especially low in the city of new orleans where only about a quarter of the market tuned in. wow that's lashing out. >> they should play one more game, patriots-saints. super bowl ii. >> that's a good idea. >> i feel i earned it from actually watching it. i earned a second one. >> since it was a bad call. >> the commercials were better than the game. >> i love football, i love defense, it was a terrible football game. >> terrible game. >> coming up, independent senator angus king is standing by. he joins us ahead of president trump's state of the union address later this evening.

"morning joe" is back in a moment. a moment (clapping) every day, visionaries are creating the future. ( ♪ ) so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and on-time. (ringing) ( ♪ )

the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it. with expedia, i saved when i added a hotel to our flight. so even when she grows up, she'll never outgrow the memory of our adventure. unlock savings when you add select hotels to your existing trip. only with expedia. to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ...that's why i've got the power of 1-2-3 medicines with trelegy. the only fda-approved 3-in-1 copd treatment. ♪ trelegy. the power of 1-2-3

♪ trelegy 1-2-3 trelegy with trelegy and the power of 1-2-3, i'm breathing better. trelegy works 3 ways to... ...open airways,... ...keep them open... ...and reduce inflammation... ...for 24 hours of better breathing. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. trelegy is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling,.. ...problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. think your copd medicine is doing enough? maybe you should think again. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy and the power of 1-2-3. ♪ trelegy 1-2-3 save at trelegy.com. because they let me to customize my insurance, and as a fitness junkie, i customize everything. like my bike and my calves. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need.

♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

president trump announced that he's nominated former oil and gas lobbyist and current deputy of the department of interior david bernhardt to lead the agency. bernhardt will replace former interior secretary ryan zinke who resigned in december amid ethics investigations. bernhardt first served in the department during the george w. bush administration. trump announced his pick on twitter writing david has done a fantastic job since he arrived. we look forward to his nomination being officially confirmed. bernhardt carried a small card listing all potential conflict

of interest. joining us now member of armed service and intelligence committee independent senator angus king of maine. also with us former democratic representative from california now director president and ceo of the woodrow wilson international center for scholars jane harman. good to have you both with us. >> senator king, what are we going to hear tonight that will move us towards resolution? >> who knows. my understanding is the speech is still being written. still be written as they are driving down to the capital. i hope there's some gesture of reaching out, of comity. i think there are areas where there can be common ground on opioids, hiv, infrastructure. we just did the big bipartisan criminal justice reform. so there are things where we can work together. if throes down the gauntlet and gives us another lecture about the wall that won't further the process. >> where is middle ground there to avoid another government shutdown? >> i think the middle ground is talk to people who really know

something about border security and come up with a plan and say this is what we need. it will involve dogs and sensors and drones and technology, perhaps more people, more judges to deal with the influx of asylum seekers and there may be places and probably will be places where there should be a barrier. the idea that there shouldn't be one inch of barrier doesn't make scene either. there is room. not the grand structure. the $5.7 billion is a down payment. what he's really asking for is more like 25 billion to build this enormous structure which doesn't make sense. let me preface this, preface it in retrospect. there's nobody in congress who is for open boarrders. i'm so tired of hearing this. that's nonsense. >> let's rewind it. there were no republicans in the senate, certainly, or leadership that were for the wall.

until democrats took control. >> that's the dirty little secret is i haven't found -- there may be some members i haven't talked to but nobody with enthusiasm for the wall, otherwise they would have done it when they had full control. >> lindsey graham saying let's declare a national emergency, jane, when republicans had the power to fund a wall. said it was a bad investment. >> it is a bad investment. to add to what angus just said, which i agree with it, it's borders. we have much bigger ports of entry all around our country. and the canadian border than we do over the mexican border. there is some message there about keeping different people out of the country that's not a good message. >> 40 puerto rico of the undocumented people in the country are on over stayed visas. that has nothing to do with the wall. the asylum seekers, these caravans have nothing to do with

the wall they come to ports of entry. >> same thing with drugs. >> they give themselves up. . they want to be arrested. the wall has nothing to do with that. it's a 1985 solution or an 1885 solution for 21st century problem. >> you talked about opioid. drugs come from ports of entry. if we invest, stop people frdyi from drug overdose that's where we put it. the president is not getting his way not only with nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell and republicans in congress. he's now talking about a national emergency. this is what john cornyn had to say about that. >> i think it's a dangerous step. one, because of the precedent it sets. two, the president's going to get sudden and it won't succeed in accomplishing his goal. and third, because i think ms.

pelosi may well introduce a resolution of disapproval that will pass the house and then come over here and divide republicans. so, to me, it strikes me as not a good strategy. >> senator king, that's a republican john cornyn talking that way. we heard that over the last week or so from the majority leader senator mcconnell as well saying the national emergency is not the way to go in part because of the precedent it sets for a potential democratic president. do you believe we'll get to that point? the next shutdown dead shrine week from friday. will we get to the point where the negotiation is so stalled the president might make this leap? >> i think he might just as a way out. this goes to a fundamental problem with this presidency is that he has no sort of gut level feeling or understanding about how our system works. he thinks he's ceo of america and it's a family owned company. and he can unilaterally say

we'll build a wall, we'll do this, we'll do that. for the first two years he had a vacation that validated that because he had his party in control of both houses. he has to realize if he wants something, a wall or a change in some other policy he's going to have to persuade congress or work with them. that's not in his dna, at least not so far. >> another word for that, he'll have to govern. >> we were there together, and we are in different parties and we worked together. another point i just make on this, is the senate is on trial to. angus is somebody who wants to make a deal. maybe mitch mcconnell does. just maybe. but if it's just a re-election machine and defaulting on the separation of powers. we're in deep trouble. i can't believe mitch mcconnell wants the institution he's in charge of to shrink into nothingness. i heard just last night that

there's an effort on the appropriations committee in particular to pull together a group of people on a bipartisan basis and come up with the funding structure to include border security done smart in the 21st century way. >> that may include some barrier. >> yes, i don't see anything wrong with that but other things as well. >> what you can offer to the president of the united states and he can go to his base remember that wall, here it is, i got it out of the democrats. >> one thing would be some portion of wall or barrier or whatever you want to call it as part of this deal because it's not irrational to have that. i've been there. there already is 700 miles of wall. so something that could fill in the gaps where, again, my suggestion is let's appoint a national commission on border security and have some experts tell us what's really necessary. and then we can do something based on the facts. one of the problems with this whole discussion is everybody is working on different facts.

who is coming in, how many, where are they coming and all the recent trends are down in terms of illegal entry on the southern border. let's deal with facts. i'm willing to support barriers if indeed somebody knows what they are talking about tells me this is an important place where, in fact, it would be cost effective. it's about $20 million a mile. that's what we're talking about here. the question is what other uses of that 20 million can you do for border security that would protect the national interest. >> the president is going be talking about the wall. i think we have to underline again my former party, your party had power for two years and whether it was john cornyn, whether it was mitch mcconnell, lindsey graham, go down the list, they all said it didn't make any sense. even general kelly when he was being interviewed in the senate to become dhs secretary said the

wall is sort of an old-fashioned approach. a lot wiser -- >> symbolically horrible. >> it just doesn't make sense. i want doesn't make us safer. it doesn't stop the philosophy drugs into this country. >> everyone knows that. including the president, i think, ultimately. but the president has found himself in a political hot spot because of certain voices on the far fringes of his base that came out when he had sent the vice president up to the hill to cut the deal. so say, yes, we'll take $2.5 billion and move forward on the plan that's on the table that the senate passed and house approved and everybody is ready to go and he said i'm not signing the deal. that's because those voices were raised. the ugly truth is inside the party in that two year period, nobody was moving on the wall. no one was talking about it. >> nobody wanted the wall. >> nobody wanted the wall.

whenever it would come up in those quiet circles, okay we'll do the wall. okay next thing. until that moment in december where coulter and limbaugh and others said if do you this, it's the end of your presidency. and that changed the entire dynamics. now it's the most important thing donald trump has to do. >> that's the madness of it all. here we have, again, as boob woodruff talked earlier. we can talk china, health care, entitlement crisis. there's so much to talk about and we're talking about an imaginary crisis as jane said we're talking about what's not really a political reality it's a primal scream. >> let's talk about tonight. there's an opportunity tonight. there he is on international

primetime tv with nancy pelosi on one shoulder and mike pence on the other shoulder and an audience that has to behave or i think has to behave of the entire congress or most of whom will behave. snowboard a trip to see nancy pelosi sitting up there. >> i know. he has an international stage. nobody understands our middle east policy. i was just in israel and jordan last week. he has an opportunity to explain himself again to reinitiate his view to the world and his domestic future too and passaic few topics like angus was suggesting infrastructure for one where we could work together. >> and one of the ironies is, not to cast dispersions the media but the focus is on the weakness. the blow up on kavanaugh we passed an opioid bill 99-1. totally bipartisan. so things are happening. the criminal justice reform heavily bipartisan.

so those things can happen. but he's got to step out. i think, you're the political strategist. he made a fundamental error in his strategy when he took office which is stuck to his base. most people when they get elected reach out to people who didn't vote for him. >> the reason for that was because, as joe tells us as well, he started meeting with resistance. from the very beginning donald trump wanted to lead on infrastructure. but it was the speaker of the house paul ryan and chief of staff reince priebus who moved him off that. then he went nostinct. it would have been a huge bipartisan bill to expand that opportunity. because the political structure moved him in a different direction he really started off not on a good foot but on a wrong foot and it sort of set the tone with how donald trump decided he would deal with capitol hill and more

specifically how he was going to deal within his own party, which is why there was no movement on this issue. >> how long is it going to be? bill clinton had long speeches. sometimes they were too long. >> i heard an hour. >> he's going to speak for an hour. >> it's a bargain compared to bill clinton. >> is he going to have the attention span? >> is it a free -- >> he'll bore himself. he can't do an hour. >> with bill clinton. we were there at the same time. i would go out listen to the first hour. go back to the cloak room. take a nap. go back out and listen to the third hour. >> need an intermission. >> an hour, really? are you sure? >> sure it could be. >> i wasn't disrespectful. >> senator angus king, always great to have you on the show. thank you, jane, as well. great group. stay with us.

still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> the lobbyists and all those that represent countries and other people it's a real bad scene and it will continue to put any of these other people in. it won't continue with me. >> two years ago president trump said foreign lobbyists would have no influence if he won. but now federal investigators are looking at allegation of foreign money going into his inauguration. >> this is the southern district of new york. >> that's a problem for him. that story is next. skin. making wrinkles look so last week. rapid wrinkle repair® pair with new retinol oil

for 2x the wrinkle fighting power. neutrogena® oh no. your new boss seems cool, but she might not be sweatpants cool. not quite ready to face the day? that's why we're here with free hot breakfast. book at hampton.com for our price match guarantee. hampton by hilton. book at hampton.com for our price match guarantee. (ala♪m goes off) wake up sweetie. ♪ doctor dave. see ya. ♪ here's your order. ♪ hey. applebee's to go. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.

but in my mind i'm still 35. that's why i take osteo bi-flex to keep me moving the way i was made to. it nourishes and strengthens my joints for the long-term. osteo bi-flex because i'm made to move. beautiful....wow.the chevy equinox. it offers a lot of great technology inside. oh, this is fancy. yeah, that's the available hd surround vision camera. the top of your car? it helps you see dangers around the vehicle. what is that? what the? wait wait wait... what is that? oh my god. what is happening? these are big alligators. now we're surrounded.

so who's getting out first? i don't know but we're keeping this camera on. [laughing] these subpoenas are coming from the southern district of new york to the inaugural committee. >> i've always thought that was the bigger problem. one because the southern district has no jurisdictions on their purview. the southern district of new york is whatever the heck you want. >> particularly to find stuff? >> that's right. you've got cohen, the president's former lawyer, as a tour guide. that means you can go anywhere. >> wow. >> and he should know. >> president trump's inaugural committee is being subpoenaed for documents as federal prosecutors examine where the record $7 million fund came from and what, if any, benefits donors received. abc news and "the new york times" were first to report on

monday's order from the southern district of northern. "the wall street journal," which broke the news, of a criminal investigation into the committee in december, was able to view a copy, according to the journal. the subpoena request documents related to committee's donors and spending included communications about payments made directly by donors to vendors which would flout disclosure rules. also seeking documents related to a los angeles financier who gave $900,000 to the committee for his private equity firm and once registered as a foreign agent working on the -- on behalf of the sri lankan government. federal law prohibits contributions for inaugural funds. saying, we have just received a subpoena for documents. it is our intention to cooperate with the inquiry. joining us now, for the atlantic, covering national

security and the intelligence community, natasha bartrend. >> asked before, what are we talking about? we got to be talking about russia here. but first, let's add a little texture to this. you, a momong others have noted that during the innaauguration u would keep bumping into russianings. pro-russian u rainians. >> not that there's any wrong with that. >> i remember going to one particular ball and -- russians, like, ah, let's do business, okay. >> that is hilarious. >> so now it's come full circle. it all makes sense, you know. i questioned why we were changing the platform to take this sort of, you know, pro-russian stance on the ukraine. i was wondering -- having this conversation with party

officials. so, you know, wahat's going on, and who are athese people. >> natasha, that's what you said as well, in plain sight. >> so much of this has just, you know, unfolded out in the open. if this had happened in secret, it would be a huge scandal but we've become so dissensitized that it really doesn't seem surprising anymore. your point about the russians is interesting. it's not just the russians now that are at issue. especially with regard to the inaugural committee. it's the saudis, the qataris. all things that are under investigation by muller and the southern district. pay to play. whether or not they were buying influence before trump took office. serious issues where we don't really know where the president's loyalties lie when he makes policy.

>> as my former law partner michael steele knows, there's not automatic guilt here. foreign nationals can come to inaugural events. american nationals can give money. it may smell a little bad here but we don't know what the truth is. and whatever they find cannot be closed off by the president or the attorney general. >> what's also interesting is -- >> whole different -- >> everybody in the trump administration, starting with donald trump and the vice president, lied about contacts between russians and their campaign and -- >> time and again. >> nobody in russia. >> time and again. >> we didn't talk to the russians. we talked to the american people, said mike pence. and then everybody went out and started lying about what russians they hadn't talked to.

>> we don't know why they've lied time and again about that. a laundry list. helping him draft that memo about the trump tower meeting, changing their story yesterday. governor christie said it well. it opens up his businesses, his family's, the inauguration -- >> tax returns. >> everything that surrounds him. >> for once, there's actually oversight in congress so that's another area he's going to have to worry about moving forward. it's the inaugural committee, the organization, the campaign. they're all under investigation. he's being investigated at pretty much every angle. mueller in the southern district had cooperating witnesses for virtually all of these angles. they had sam patton who was -- who lied about, you know, registering as a foreign agent and he actually donated

illegally to the inaugural fund because he tried to get a ticket for a ukrainian and hid it. you have gates who was very involved who is now cooperating with prosecutors. you have paul manafort who may or may not be still cooperatinging. his sentencing date was just moved back. they have all of these people now who are now cooperating and able to back this up. that's going to be really, really key. i think the president should be concerned about the number of people who have flipped on him. >> should he be concerned in. >> yes, he has denied any wrongdoing, but he has been interviewed by mueller. it's been unclear whether or not he's been cooperating with that investigation beyond just that one interview. he's certainly of interest because he was very good friends with paul manafort of course and had a key role in the inaugural committee. >> wow. >> real quick point about the money is remember back at that

time, trump was having a problem kind of raising some of the cash for the inauguration so it will be interesting to see whether or not those outside influences help cover that short fall on the front end when they were trying to raise money. >> got up to $107 million. >> they made up for it quick. >> final minutes, 18 people at the table, in 5 seconds or less what do you want to hear from the president tonight? >> i want him -- he has the best stage he's ever going to have again in his presidency. i want him to reach for congress and talk about ways to cooperate and i think if he doesn't do that and he goes back into the rand about the border wall, he has totally squandered. >> they want to hear him not declare a national enermergency. they don't want to hear him rail on the boarder wall or democrats. >> i think he will do all of

that. i think he well rail a little bit. i think he will threaten or at least tease a national emergency because that's what he's got to do in that moment. he's not talking to the country. he's talking to that small -- >> i agree, it will be a steven miller speech. >> they talk about comedy. i hope he doesn't think it's going to be a comedy, because that would be a joke. >> stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika. they there i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover this morning starting with trouble. from day one. federal prosecutors in new york subpoenaed president trump's inaugural committee, demanding documents about donors, finances and activities. looking for potential money laundering as well as possible election fraud. >> i always thought that was the much more