and i'll be back for more special coverage at 1:00 a.m. eastern. our line up includes reverend william barber and many more. i hope you'll join us. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. so let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. up in new york. two hours from now the president will deliver the state of the union address, hoping the spectacle of him before the supreme court, cabinet, diplomats from around the world will reclaim the glory of his office. the man who took the oath talking about american carnage, will send a message off unity, sounding presidential and optimistic, much like his predecessors. >> as we gather here tonight, the state of our union is strong.

>> my fellow americans, the state of our union is strong. >> tonight the state of our union is strong and together we will make it stronger. >> our future is hopeful, our journey goes forward and the state of our union is strong. >> but tonight president trump will give his state of the union address against the partisan ranker, on the heels of his government shutdown over fighting for a border wall as he dangled the threat of declaring a national emergency and will address house speaker nancy pelosi directly over his shoulder and with at least five potential democratic challengers facing him in the chamber. he will send a message of unity and comedy. but behind the scenes, trump is pushing back quote as he and his team have drafted his address in recent days, he's complaining

it's too gentle on democrats. but according to people briefed on the matter and he already violated the proposed truce, mocking minority leader chuck schumer in a tweet this morning. he tweeted i see schumer is already criticizing my state of the union speech, even though he hasn't seen it yet. he's just upset he didn't win the senate after spending a fortune, like he thought he would. too bad, we won't even give him credit for the win by the media. together we can break decades of political stealmate, we can bridge old divisions, forge new solutions, new coalitions and unlock the extraordinary promise of america's future. but kicked off tweeting tremendous numbers of people are coming up through mexico, adding we will build a human wall if necessary. and joined by chris murphy of

connecticut and host of "a.m. joy." and national plitdical reporter for the "washington post." and presidential biography and desti distinguished professor. this is quite a quartet with different perspectives. i'm going to start with joy reed, who i think is with me. i'm hearing unity, comedy, we're all going to get together and cume by yeah. i do want to hear that but i'm hearing trashing of the senate minority leader, trashing of pelosi, of the congress of of the democratic party. i see a president who says he won't even agree to a deal that's struck on the border wall a president threatening to override anybody in front of him and ignore the congress. at the same time he's saying let's all get along. >> there's this fundamental clash bedwetween the person he actually is, which is the person

that wants to attack chuck schumer and demand they give him a border wall and talk about the brown scare at the border. that's the trump he wants to be and the president -- >> like the yellow scare? >> that's the essence of what he wants for a border wall. that's what he wants. that's not his exact text but what he's essentially saying to his base that you have the border to take your jobs and kill you and that's who he wants to be and there's a clash fundamentally. you can like whatever you want, whoever is writing the speech will put words in his mouth but that's not who he is. he will read the prompter, he'll grumble and then he'll be

himself again when it's over. >> let me go to robert and comty and we're going to work things out, including the border wall. what would be the point of that conflict of reality. why would he want to do that for one night. democrats think the president has a decision to make on whether he's going to declare a national emergency or not. two years into the presidency, they're not paying as much attention. what they want to know is is there know going to be another shutdown in midfebruary or not? is he going to use his emergency power or not? >> let me go to the center on that. it seems if we're ever going to end this over the wall, we'll need compromise, which is a

stronger effort to reduce the number of legal immigrants coming across the border and doing it in a way that doesn't offend everybody in the country, especially hispanic americans. how do you do it in a way that doesn't make this country more divided. is there a way? >> of course there is, but you probably can't get it in the next seven days. a week 1/2 from now. so of course you can sit down and figure it out. remember, we passed a bipartisan comp reehencive reform bill. the president has the short-term decision. you want to a persipitate another crisis by announcing this national emergency declaration which may not be able to pass congress. i'm going to go because i respect the office of the presidency. but i'm not sure it matters what he says. it matters what he decides to do over the next couple days.

>> ben bradlee jr.'s written a new book about what happened in pennsylvania in the last election. hazeltine. about people not liking all the neighborhoods. heidi klum's coming in from northern europe. it's ethic tribalism. is it because he's talking to the people up there. is he talking to rush limbaugh? whose tlr boss? >> i think joy's right. 12 or 13% on election day 2016 through a whole series of circumstances. i think, to me i think we have to see the world to some extent the way trump sees it and i firmly believe that all of us here think off a night like this and it was the chapter in the woodrow wilson story.

he reinstituted the state of the union, going to the house. this is the podium from which franklin roosevelt declared war and linden johnson said we shall overcome. for president trump, this is a season premier of a new show. and he sees this as reality television. he doesn't see it as reality. and i think if we don't get inside his head a little bit we're going to be playing by one set of rules while he plays by another. >> how will donald trump acknowledge speaker pelosi tonight? in 2007 when she became the first female, woman speaker of the house, then president george w. bush honored the significance of the moment during his state of the union. >> tonight i have the high privilege distinct honor of my own as the first fooz begin the state of the union message with these words, madam speaker.

>> oh, i love that stuff. cording to the "new york times," while age urged president trump to congratulate nancy pelosi on her second acension, they're not clear whether he would or not. it seems to me this is like a gopher pitch in baseball. say something, congratulations on being reelected. i like that term, reelected. it's an easy one. >> can you ever imagine president trump uttering the words president bush did? it's not in his nature. he's been in denial since the election that the democrats won the house of representatives. instead of moving towards nancy pelosi, he moved away from her. there are plenty of ways in which high can show a willing noosz work with democrats. he could show some bend on the issue of immigration. but he could spend time during the speech talking about drug

pricing, talking about a new infrastructure bill, talking about things he might actually get done with the democratic house. and there are ways he could signal he understands what the new reality is. >> i can imagine putting a little snap in that thing. he can say thanks for having me over to your house finally. >> you know it's finny. i have to say john meacham has taken up residence and living rent free. i feel like i should charge him because what he said is exact wlae what i think. for him this is a tv show and it's the next episode that nancy pelosi cancelled midseason. he didn't get to do his midseason finale. someone could script him a line that is intended to sound gracious towards nancy pelosi. but she is the foil in the show. she is the character that for him is the anti -- he doesn't

mean it if he says -- >> i'm on her side but they're both iconic. he wants a chinese wall made with bricks. she says it's immoral to build a wall. it's a question of what's appropriate, what works and what doesn't offend people. both taken iconic positions against each utter. he should try charm her because he's going to have to fight her party, maybe 10 people who are basically open borders people. they don't say it but they are. and she's got to fight them to get any compromise. >> there's a reason that she is the first and only madam speaker. this is a woman who successfully did something no one else managed to do in this ascendancy of trump over the last three years or so.

she made him break with the base. his caving on the shutdown because pelosi took that position will be a critical moment. because it was the first time -- you know this as wello or better than i do -- presidents get in trouble when they try to put a fast one past the people. watergate, vietnam, or when they break with the base and his base now believes that nancy pelosi actually pulled his pig tails somehow and i think that's going to be a significant moment. she's a formidable figure >> i'll disagree and i rarely disagree. she doesn't have to negotiate with anyone in the party. she the speaker, she knows the constitution and the rules, he does not. she has it over him because she's done the homework. she knows the power oof the office and restoringing it to the tip oo'neale style, not

style we've seen with boehner and with the young man from wisconsin. she actually knows how to be speaker and shedi doesn't have negotiate. she leads her caucus and donald trump is not getting a wall, period. >> meanwhile, trump has said bipartisan negotiations over his wall are a waste of time and even a number of republican senators have voicesed concerns about that approach. >> this would just be another erosion of congressional authority in this particular area. >> i think it would be a mistake for the president to invoke his national emergency powers for this purpose. and that it would be a dubious constitutionality. >> i think it's a dangerous step, one because of the precedent it sets, two because the president is going to get sued and it won't succeed in accomplishing his goal.

>> robert, it seems to me the president, has, whether he knew it or not, found a way out of it. they've been meet since the beginning of the congress and that's how they put things that no one likes but they get them through. why does he say let's work it out? i don't want another government shutdown and i don't want to risk a national emergency. so finesse this baby and let's move on? >> rush limbaugh won't approve but i think most americans would. >> he's being urged by senator lindsey graham to try to accept something that's less than 5.7 billion, the original request for the wall. senator graham said he wants the president to think about 2 billion and other border security provisions. try to walk away without another shutdown. the atmosphere is pretty challenging for the president.

was just rebuked about his policies on syria, afghanistan, removing u.s. troops. he faces a possible rebuke again. there's already talk about a resolution out of the house and senate republicans could support it to push back on the president's decision should he move in that direction. that's why you have senator graham and others privately saying accept this bipartisan deal. walk away with something instead of nothing. >> i twunwant to shift to the democratic response. they've been uneven. he drinks too much water or something stupid. but this time it's an african-american woman who came close to becoming governor of a major stayed. was that to tilt this thing back to balance? beto was getting potential nominee. she lost a governor's race. is that a feeling that not only

eare african-american women going to decide this next fight, everybody's telling me, but fairness. >> i think number one it was a statement of fact, which is that african-american women are the backbone of the democratic party and an acknowledgment of the dependency on the party. number two t was a sense of trying to make the ultimate contrast between the democratic party and donald trump and his party, saying this woman who cares about voting rights and immigrant rights and fundamental fairness is going to give you the sharpest contrast you could get between what it means to be a democrat and a republican. and third i think blatdantly it is a huge sales pitch by the dscc. democrats saying please, stacey abrams, run for the united states senate. she wants to be governor. what she fundamentally wants to do is have a rematch. i think this is part of wooing her.

>> i think governor's for her. go for what you really want because it's risk either way. so go for the one you care most about. you're speaking for the democrats. do you want her to go efor the senate? >> there's a lot of people rooting for her to run for the senate. i think she'd become a senator, especially in a presidential election when you have a lot more democratic voters turning out. i also think this is about signaling our party is going to play everywhere in 2020. this is a party that believes it can win in blue states, purple states and red stags and that our party is being led by leaders and activists outside of washington. stacey abrams is not a senator, congress person and i think that's a sign of where the strength of this party lies today. i let chuck schumer and the head of the sec do the recruitment

but she would be an awesome candidate. >> this is her opportunity to reach 100 million people in primetime. thank you so much. chris murphy of connecticut, joy reed of msnbc and john meacham of history. coming up the new legal threat. federal prosecutors subpoena records from inauguration when, where did all that money come from? and what were they trying to get for their money? and haven't we seen this movie before? >> that means building a great wall on the southern border and hiring more heroes like c.j. to keep our communities safe. >> well, that was last year. what if the president declare as national emergency tonight? and there are few of his favorite things, the spotlight, the agilation. what nights like tonight tell us about donald trump the man formerly known as "the donald".

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welcome back to "hardball." the state of his legal problems may be growing worse. and the inaugural party received a sweeping effort from the southern district of new york. they want access to a variety of documents relating to the donors, spending and payments. the committee shared by tom barrack, a close friend of donald trump raised $107 million for the inauguration, more than twice the amount for barack obama. they want to know how it was raised and spent. they're investigating allegations that they miss spent some of the 10s of millions they gave and some gave money in

exchange for influence in policy positions. that's called pay to play. all aspects of his personal and professional life. we know six operations connected to this president are under scrutiny. the trump campaign. the trump transition. the trump inauguration, the trump administration, the trump organization the trump foundation. for more i'm joined by senior vice president for social justice up in new york and reporter with bloomberg noise. this is a new topic for me but my first question i think is it's illegal for foreign people, people even to give to an inauguration. how did that law get developed? >> it's the same reason why any of us walking down the street would worry about it when we hear about it because you're worried about paying to play. and you don't want foreign

influence, so not the kinds of factors you want a u.s. president taking into account deciding who gets what -- >> excuse me, they can give lots of money to libraries. is that because they're on their way out? they started giving to libraries pretty early on. >> libraries don't have as much power -- >> i'm talk about presidential libraries. ego towers. >> because they're out of office. >> what are crimes you think are on the table? >> we know the southern district's taking a look. the subpoena seems very broad in scope at this in time and you have those money flows you were just talking about. from big donors to the inauguration and you have people buying tick tsz. we know one by the name of sam patten, by using a straw donor, was able to give $50,000 of

ukrainian money from an oligarch into the inaugural fund. >> is that clean money or crooked money? is it a crime what he did? >> sam patten's in legal jeopardy, yeah. but don't know quite yet what the broader questions the prosecutors in new york are going to get at in terms of say the big $5 million donor >> if they take money that's indirectly from abroad? >> it depends. well, if they don't know, right? >> they don't ask, they don't tell. >> remember that michael cohen -- this whole investigation began because of the raid on michael cohen's office and his plea because he had all kinds of documents. cohen himself in the case of victor vexalbering, there was a whole question of whether he was helping a russian essentially give money to the inaugural

committee through his cousin who was a citizen. so certainly they could say but we didn't know that. what we ehad, it was someone who was a u.s. citizen saying they were paying. so it does depend on the facts. >> i mean this is two years ago. did they know there was a problem before, the prosecutors? >> not to my knowledge. we've seen a rolling series of reports like michael cohen that all touched the inaugural committee. >> take us money. >> press secretary sarah sanders appeared on cnn to address the reports. she denied it had anything to do with the white house and heerbz rr how she answered the question about the president himself. >> actually i think the common thread is hysteria over the fact this this president became president.

the kaunl thread is that there's so much hatred out there that they will look for anything to try create and tie problems to this president. things with people like roger stone and paul manafort literally have nothing to do with the president. >> except they're all around the president. i guess the question keeps coming out. i never understood -- money laundering. how would money laundering work through the inaugural committee? >> remember they raised twice as much as barack obama's record take and they had fewer events. fewer staff. so the question is what did all that money go to pay for? for example there's reason the subpoena may be asking for vendors and contractors is did that money pay them or was it a pass through to clean money and hide it? and so that's why it's following the money. >> and the people would end up getting it back. >> remember rick gates who is

already cooperating and pled guilty and helped it manafort money launder and the way he did it was falsifying invoices. >> tom barrack, is he the one that has to cover for all of this? >> look, tom has his whole life been a raiser of big funds as a businessman and in the role as the inaugural committee. but people around him have said we don't have the tools to vet all the money that comes in, either through the ticket or donor side. >> he's very open as a personality. there's nothing sneaky about the guy. so whatever he did, he doesn't seem ready to be afraid of it. we'll see. up next will president trump declare a national emergency to force american taxpayers to pay for his border wall? how he's leveraging fear to create policy. leveraging fear create policy. take your razor, yup.

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>> privately? what's in my mind? certainly thinking about it. i think there's a good chance that we'll have to do that. well, i'm saying listen closely to the state of the union. i think you'll find it very exciting. >> that was president trump last

week leaving open the possibility he could use tonight's speech to declare a national emergency to get the funding for his border wall. it's facing resistance. akorbding to the "new york times" senate republican aids estimate between three and ten republicans would sides with chamber's democrats if he declared a national emergency. the white house said he would proceed cautiously. >> we should not expect the president to declare a national emergency if he wants to let congress to finish? >> that's right. we need congress to finish his job and the president is looking at other options and has the legal authority to do so. >> the president has bing clear that if the congress doesn't give him what he wants, his wall, then he will declare a national emergency. i'm joined by a senator that will be in the chamber tonight. what do you think of this president in threatening to override congress, ignore both

chambers, do what he wants and call an emergency? >> what i think is i really don't know republican senators, when i talk to them privately, who think this is a good idea. doesn't mean they don't publicly back the president because they kind of always do. especially because he probably will take money from the military or use our armed forces to do this and you don't undermine our national security to do this vanity project of this wall. i mean the public doesn't want the wall, the congress doesn't want the wall. the president made a promise, but his promise, as you point out in your show, that the mexicans would pay for it. so he's just flaling and people pay a price when he distracts the public. i want to hear what he's going to do about infrastructure, keeping the price of prescription drugs down. because ewe'll work with him to do that for sure.

>> sounds good. tonight he's expected to again make the case for his border wall. he said without his wall migrants will be flooding our southern border and he's willing to build a human wall if necessary. i think that's more than we have in syria. i'm not even sure soldiers are under the rules of the engagement that they're allowed to stop people at the border with their rifles. i didn't know soldiers could do that kind of duty? >> he's trying to salvage his promise he made in front of 10s of thousands of people, forgetting he said mexico would pay for it. nobody kbrb i know in either party at a town hall in toledo or a small gathering, nobody thinks that's good idea put that

many troops at the border. we can do border security, we can do it bipartisan with border agents and helicopters and technologies and all the things we know how to do. frrtsz it it's only an emergency to the president's mind and he's just wrong about that. >> then candidate trump out what he thought was the source of true power. real power is i don't even want to use the word fear. it's a tactic he hasn't shied away from using especially when it comes to the fworder wall. >> you look at what's marching up, that's an invagsz. that's an invasion. >> they're bringing drugs, crime, they're rapists and some, i assume are good people. >> savage gangs like ms 13, that there occupying our country like another nation would. >> we're taking people out of the country.

you wouldn't believe how bad these people are. these aren't people. these are animals. >> but according to the "new york times," as the presidency enters his third year, few outside the republican party are afraid of this president. and they're less intimidated after the disastrous government shutdown. if you were in a community that was concerned about illegal immigration, a working class community, what would you say if you're debating he says he needs a big chinese-type wall? >> i'd start with this. president trump's a bully. he's been a bully all his life and fundamentally, as you know, they're always cowards. i would look at it this way. i would think about what you know so well with your twiime wh speaker o'neale is republicans have always played to fear. joe mccarthy, fear of communism,

fear of immigration, fear of all kinds of -- all they play to fear, as president trump does to distract people. he knows wages aren't going up, he knows he's betrayed workers, he knows what's happening in youngstown, ohio where the plant shut down and in reno and seeing their wages flat and he wants to change the subject. and the subject is point to somebody else, whether it's immigrants, people of color, women. whoever it is, that's his game and bullies -- again bullies are always cowards in the end. you stand up and point that out. >> have you got day for deciding to run against him? >> sorry? >> do you have a day? >> connie and i are doing our dignity of work tour. we will likely decide in march. fundamentally i think democrats have to do two things. we have to talk to the

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traditional presidency that appeal to him, none nor than standing in the halls of congress than with all eye oz on him, speaking to the nation. he's always been focussed on how he looks as president. >> here's a picture of the crowd. now the audience was the bigsh ever. but this crowd was massive. look how far back it goes. >> i went to better schools than they did, i was a better student than they were, i live in a bigger, more beautiful apartment in the white house too, which is really great. >> one of the gradest parades i've ever seen. because of what i witnessed, we may do something like that in washington down pennsylvania avenue. we're going to have to try and top it. >> i was the perfect person. i was like central casting. >> well, last month during the government shutdown, tony schwartz predicted the president's desire to give the

state of the union was so strong t was probably one reason he would end the government shutdown. we're going to have him on in a minute and his explanation off why the president wants to be there tonight. why the president wants to be there tonight. essential for pine trees, but maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis. because there are options. like an "unjection™". xeljanz xr. a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, low blood cell counts, higher liver tests and cholesterol levels. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection.

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at an alternative venue, after speaker nancy pelosi initially kajsalled the speech was part of his calculus for reopening, at least temporarily, the government. tony schwartz tweeted there is one reason i can imagine donald trump reope thing government by january 29th, he wants to give a state of the union address to congress. it's always about vanity. tony, you're first. i think all presidents like state of the union. they like mr. speaker, the whole thing. the applause and again. it's all reduntant and i don't know. all that attention. >> are you asking me a question? >> why trump particularly thrilled by the idea of theater in the round? >> you know the smaller the human being, the greater the

need for big pomp is circumstance. literally i think that's what it is about. the more diminished, the more humiliated, small he feels, the more desperate he becomes for any external evidence he matters. >> and you could feel that smallness next to you, right? i'm serious. >> i could feel the emptiness at that time. i think he's actually shrunk. so what i could feel was there was an absence of any center. there was an absence of a conscience, of a heart, of a point of view. >> and what do you think he'll do tonight? get applause across the room or just enjoy the left side, the republican gallery out there? >> i think he talked about wanting unity. i think he feels like the only threat he has left is the demonization of immigrants. we know he was going to do that.

he was talking to steven miller for two hours about his speech. so we know what that's going to look like. he brought one of the millions of family whose have had a loss of a life because of an undocumented immigrant. that's going to be the american carnage speech and we have behind him nancy pelosi who understood she could get justice and fairness and jobs for over a million workers by just playing to his ego. >> i've been speaking about this all day. it seems if you're running on national dissatisfaction, a war you don't like, you will answer that with satisfying, you boost the war and deal with satisfaction. but when you get elected on resentment, you just get more resentment. is there any to satisfy resentment? it doesn't seem like you could do enough to make it miserable

for mexican americans to want to come here. it's going to make people that angry happier. >> listen, he's not capable of letting go of resentment. he's the most powerful agrieve human being who has ever lived. >> what is he agrieve about? just this week decided to stop hiring illegal people. >> would you be agrieve if you were donald trump? he has every reason to be because he's him. ium not sure other people are saying it. this state of the union is arguably the most irrelevant state of the union ever given. why? because there is nothing he can say that will generate any credibility beyond his core audience. >> i think you're so right about the resentment. i think we have thousands of families separated, children the government, the trump administration just said in a

lawsuit a couple of days ago. we actually don't think we can or should reunite them with their families. this is the type of thing that was obviously the red meat he was trying to give to his base but has unleashed a democratic wave of women who think about that kind of absolute tragedy that come to this country ewith anything, doing anything you can by your children to have them ripped out by a careless state. it's a nightmare. they report that president is doingdo unusual thing for him. debates and meanings with world leaders. >> i think i'm very well prepared. i don't think i have to prepare very much. >> it's not like i'm going to

sit down and study. i know every stat. i know my debate prep. but you're not supposed to be prepping too much. >> he's hiding rehearsing with the teleprompter? >> listen, it is a measure of how frightened he actually is. so he went and did during the shutdown that office address from the white house and got feedback that was a catastrophe and i think against that he felt maybe i should read it a a couple of times. the idea he has been quote working on this speech as someone who haswork would him is a joke. he is not working on the speech. they are reading him portions or he is reading briefly portions and saying i don't like that. could you change that? or i like that. in the entire manuscript of "the art of the deal" he made about

ailgt red marks and that's the only adult book he's red in his life. >> i don't think you can top that. >> i think it's going to be let's fight a vision that nobody wants to live in. he is not going to do some of the things he could do like talk about jobs infrastructure. >> thank grou that prep. up next how trump's legacy will not be about what he built but what he tore down. let's take a look at some numbers:

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new york's fifth avenue is a wonder. but when i walked by the trump tower, i'm reminded of what stood there before, the old teller building with the beautiful historic facade with architect magazine called a sparkling jewel. donald tore all of that down in a perfect display of what he thinks of hiszry. the one thing that unites us, we americans is our history frrks good, for bad, for everything who we are. donald trump has no respect for our history. same lack respect he's used to tear down that historic building to build his golden tower and history is going to pay him back. how dare a man who trashed his pred seszer as an illegal

immigrant to from up haters ask for unity. how dare a man who calls immigrants rapists and drug dealers, criminals of the worse kind but calling for unity including those whose roots run south of the border. he came to office ripping down all the historic progress that came before him. when alliances were built with other democratic countries, for the civility of our course at home. by the trump recing ball and what legacy will he leave behind once the jamboree of resentment has ended? a united country? you think so. that's not what got him here and not how history is going to judge him, not for what he built but for what he succeeded at least in his time for tearing down. that's "hardball" for now. i'll be back for a special

edition of "hardball" at midnight and msnbc special cover object of the state of the union starts right now. tonight president trump in nancy pelosi's house. >> the president of the united states. >> can he convince congress to give him the border wall. >> walls work. they do work. >> there's not going to be any wall money. >> reporter: or are we headed for a government shutdown as mueller tabes aim at another trump hour and more democrats jump into the 2020 race. president trump delivers the state of the union. good evening. live pictures where a short time from now he will deliver a state of the union address. this will be uncharted