an economic miracle is taking place in the united states, and the only thing that can stop it are foolish wars, politics or ridiculous partisan investigations. >> i believe the time has come to bring that investigation and the other investigations of this a matter an end. >> if there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation. it just doesn't work that way. >> one year of watergate is enough. >> wow. so would you call that trump's nixon moment? quite a stretch? >> i would call that trump goes to nixon, yes. >> full nixon. welcome to "morning joe," wednesday, february 6th. along with joe and willie, we

have our guests. republican communications strategist and msnbc political contributor, rick tiler and author and nbc news presidential historian, michael. >> michael, let me start with you. it did ring of richard nixon, didn't it? we've played that richard nixon clip before when mike pence said one year of these investigations is enough. last night, it was donald trump channeling the ghost of richard milhouse nixon. >> maybe not for the first time. i guess the difference is, joe and mika, in nixon's case, at least he had the self-restraint to wait until the end of the speech. in trump's case it came very early on. in trump's case, it was tied to a threat. i have never, for all the state of the union address i know of, i have never heard a president deliver a threat like that, unless you relieve me of these

so-called ridiculous partisan investigations there's not going to be any legislation. that's a new one. >> that isn't in the state of the union but what he said before democrats were sworn in the beginning of the year. this is a threat repeated. yesterday, he talked about how he had written three books and i went back to look to see if i was still the consistent conservative i was, unfortunately -- i discovered i was, but unfortunately i was embarrassed to realize i had written the same exact book three times. >> copy and paste. >> the same happens with donald trump's speeches. we hear the same thing every year. as bob costa tweeted in the middle of the speech last night, despite all the protests we will hear something different or he's channeling steven miller or channeling bannon, this is

donald trump. because this is the same speech donald trump always gives. >> yeah. if you look at that speech he made. i went back and watched the top of it again last night when he came down the escalator in 2015, it's not that different, in pieces talking about immigration on the wall and what's happening in the border at the top of that speech. this is who he is. steven miller has found a vessel on donald trump to promote his world view and ideas on immigration. the president we heard standing in that room as president of the united states is not a lot different than the guy that came down the escalator. >> when someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time. >> the president has been telling us who he is over and over again, even before he started running for president in some ways. the president is wedded to this idea immigrants are criminalizing america and the wall is the only way to stop it.

the president said, i will build that wall. to me what i heard as a reporter waiting for the shutdown to see if we will end up with another one the president saying, yeah, i want a little bit of unity but i don't want to compromise on the wall and why we had a 35 day shutdown. >> we can compromise on anything but the wall. >> and the speech was packed with a lie. he talks about an economic miracle. there's no economic miracle. we are in the middle of, what, eight year recovery that may be slowing down a bit. he talks about crime and showcases a family who suffered a horrific injury -- tragedy, to try to highlight a trend that's not a trend at all. in fact, we know native-born americans are far more likely to commit violent crimes and be incarcerated than illegal

immigrants. then, of course, border crossings, the lowest since 1971. the lowest since 1971. the year david ignatius was born. that's a long time! >> fact checker. >> let me start by saying, i think as speeches go, it was a good speech. i don't know it was a great state of the union speech. it had a lot of applause lines. a lot for people to like. if you were democrat, you probably didn't like it. some things to like. and a lot about economic jobs and things to include on the obama administration since elected on his numbers and a lot on immigration the way he painted immigrants. to me, as a conservative -- >> rick, by the time, not because he's being insensitive, which he is, and racist, which i believe he is, because he's flat

out lying to the american people. >> they're just wrong about the numbers and the way they characterize and paint immigration, legal immigration has always been a net positive in the country. it remains a net positive. the whole crisis is phony because immigration numbers are probably close to a 50 year low. what crisis are we trying to solve? what is the problem we're having. worse for his political party, when you begin to ailielienate minorities and hispanic, what is the future of the republican party. >> they're standing and xlaping, i don't get. >> what's remarkable to me that is a lecture karl rove, i remember him coming and talking to the republican class in 1998 and 1999, lecturing us, saying

you guys have to get right with hispanics in 1998 and '99. george w. bush got 43, 44% of the hispanic vote in 2004. by the time, is it a sin for me to love george conway as much as i do, not because he shows anybody up but the president of the united states. he had tweets saying these are the lowest border crossings since 1971, 1972, 1973, and he literally but every year down, two tweets to show how fantastical the lie was. interesting, you said it was a good political speech, if you were a republican. peggy noonan actually no fan of donald trump's presidency said the same thing, it was an effective speech on issues. david, so many things i saw republicans standing for that depressed me last night, one, i

did not expect them to stand up and applaud donald trump bragging about destroying the imf treaty and launching a new nuclear arms race, but they did. >> the republicans were a jack-in-the-box all night. they'd sit dune and boing right back up again. they were determined to do the standing ovation thing. state of the union speeches are a particular form of theater. i thought trump this year got that form of theater better than he has. i thought he used the room effectively. i thought reagan pioneered this technique having people in the galleries tell by their lives emotional stories. it was well-chosen. a narrative we began with d-day and closed with the people who liberated the holocaust camps. i thought that was moving and very powerful.

i thought the most amazing thing, this president accused of being a misogynist, perhaps guilty of our sexual -- >> you can actually say, caught on tape, bragging about sexually assaulting women because he was famous. >> that person, caught on tape, with the famous hollywood access tape, in this room, using the tools of this address ended up leading the cheers for womens rights and the women in right celebrating the surf -- suffragettes yelling and cheering for him. >> i thought they were doing it for exactly we are here. >> that may be true but i'm not sure the country as a whole -- in any event, i thought in all those ways he used the room effectively. >> i agree with david, from a

theatrical point of view, i thought the guests were incredible, wonderful stories. the president's message, and, yes, his nod to the women democrats was nice but disco discordant from the other 365 days of the year. he talked about unity of the nation coming together but that has to be backed up by policies. nothing preceding last night shows what he meant. >> state of the union speeches are usually meaningless. in donald trump's case, they're especially meaningless because even if he were to get any lift from last night's speech he would be sure to step on it this morning by 8:00 a.m. >> let me check. >> it will be tweets or it will be insults or one self-inflicted mistake after another. that's what he does.

it was interesting on the women applauding, yes, thank you, you're responsible for the greatest revolution of electing women in the united states of congress's history. i thought it was interesting when he said we will never be socialists. i thought mike murphy had great insight when he said the only reins why extreme candidates are being elected right now, the only reason we are more open to socialist candidates right now is because of you, you. >> exactly. >> you are requiring americans to look for extreme answers to the crisis that you, donald trump, have created. >> he mentioned the life issue last night and abortion. it was a strong 60 seconds, even though it came later in the speech, if you are pro-life. what is not said is he's responsible for that legislation in virginia and new york because

he got those people elected who would pass pro abortion legislation. so, in a sense, he's responsible for it. >> right. >> i thought the reporte between the women and him and sort of jumped the gun that 58% new jobs created for women, yes, that's us and they got up and he had the line -- >> it was worth watching again. >> i do want to just say for democrats, because it hasn't been mentioned much in the mainstream media, glad you brought up the abortion legislation in the media, this is such a blind spot for democrats, just like nra actions after sandy hook, the video games and, again, refusing to pass any reasonable rational

legislation, painted republicans as extremists, democrats have a blind spot. they do not understand how out of step with america they are. not only passing extreme long term abortion legislation but then celebrating it. it's a real blind spot for democrats that will cost them votes in states they will need in 2020 if they don't recognize it as a national party. >> the most recent reliable polling last june from gallup, 13% of americans support late term abortion, 13%. >> that's about the same number that are opposed to background checks for terrorists and domestic abusers and all the others. >> here's part of what the president said last night, on the issue of immigration. >> wealthy politics and donors push for open borders while

living their lives behind walls and gates and guards. meanwhile, working class americans are left to pay the price for mass illegal immigration, reduced jobs, lower wages, overburdened schools, hospitals that are so crowded you can't get in, increased crime, and a depleted social safety net. tolerance for illegal immigration is not compassionate, it is actually very cruel. >> we'll point that out. illegal border crossings have been declining for decades. in 2017 the number was at a near 50 year low. >> let's -- let's again, let's just stop right there again, mika. they're at a 50 year low. you have to go back to richard

nixon as president to find a time when border crossings were lower than they are right now. >> it's only increased in recent months as families try and come here, families with children. the president was also fact-checked by the sheriff of el paso, texas. >> listen, i don't know who the sheriff of el paso, texas is, i don't want to cross it. whatever he says, i'm with him or her. >> this is what he was upset about, this claim, take a look. >> the border city of el paso, texas used to have extremely high rates of violent crime, one of the highest in the entire country, and considered one of our nation's most dangerous cities. now, immediately upon its building, with a powerful barrier in place, el paso is one

of the safety cities. >> el paso sheriff, richard wiles responded to this statement, it is sad to see president trump state falsehoods in el paso, texas in attempts to build a 2,000 mile wall. the facts are clear. while it has never been one of the most dangerous cities and it was a safe city before a wall was built. president trump continues to give a false narrative about a great city that truly represents what this great nation is all about. i was saying it off the air, i will say it on the air. how can anyone see this as a good speech? how can anyone see this as unifying when he is spewing out lies to the american people. lying. his data is wrong. his concepts are based on incorrect facts. this is an angry racist platform

that has been surrounded by sweet stories and world war ii veterans. of course, we all hate childhood cancer. of course, he can smatter it with great stories that his staff helped put in there, but the bottom line is his platform is based on hate and lies, bottom line. >> let's make it specific. again, to illegal immigration. that's what you pointed out before, there were parts of the speech the americans will agree with and support and some may actually support what he's saying about illegal immigration. that part, when he gets to that part, he starts making these facts up, they're just built on lies and assumptions. >> a lot of presidents have gone and given political state of the union speeches and economic address. is it true it's way down?

it's one uptick. >> right. >> it's kind of like saying the sun has shined most of the days of my presidency. it's sort of meaningless. all presidents do that. politically speaking, i think people will watch this speech. i haven't seen any polls about it. most people will have fairly positive reaction on this speech, a lot of applause lines. it was not very deep to the substance. what ronald reagan invented, i brought so-and-so and so-and-so and point those out, we all love those stories. >> i think maybe most republicans might like this speech, diplomats and independents looking facts from the president will say he won again and misled the american people. i think one of the most outlandish things the president says over and over again, the wall is being built, under construction and down and already being built. the president is saying in san diego and el paso, texas, the wall i was talking about in my

political campaigns is already helping save lives. that is simply not true. the repairs to the fencing he's talking about started under a different administration. it really shows this president, in as much as this was a good political speech in the idea he spoke legibly for an hour and a half -- >> you just can't fact check donald trump's statements about immigration enough because they are built on a faulty foundation, a non-factual foundation. so, michael, what were some of your other insights from the speech? >> one thing we were looking for, how has donald trump changed since democrats took the house. one historical example you will remember very well, 1996, bill clinton went to the well of the

house in his state of the union and said, the era of big government is over. that worked because during the year of 1994, when you won and the republicans took back the house and senate after 40 years, clinton began to move to the center. this prepared him to win re-election in 1996, also paved the way for those negotiations you know so well, joe, with newt gingrich over things like welfare reform and balancing the budget, things you had a big part in. in donald trump's case, we've seen almost none of that. at the beginning, when he weighs talking about bipartisanship and reconciliation, that was after this huge more than a month government shutdown that may resume again in one week, it was really just rhetoric. >> michael, great point. that's what bill clinton was able to do. he was able to take a turn to the center and pass welfare

reform, his base loathed. agreed with the republicans on balancing the budget republicans loved and democrats loathed. you look at his biography, that's what he's bragging about in his first chapter, those were two of his landmark achievements. the question remains whether donald trump is going to be able to make that turn. i believe many people don't think he will. but touching on rick's point and what peggy noonan said, some policy issues and late term abortions will really resonate with his base and i think some people in the political middle, there was also his exhortation to bring the troops home. we've been fighting for 19 years, bring the troops home from afghanistan, bring the troops home from syria. again, i think most policymakers

think that is a very reckless thing to do right now, especially turning afghanistan over to the taliban and turning syria back over to isis, reconstituted isis. but, still, a very popular political line to deliver. >> i thought, joe, he did something clever in this speech on foreign policy, which is to anchor policies of retreat. he had a good phrase explaining what he means. he said great nations do not fight endless wars. hard to argue with that. great nations do not keep on fighting and he wants to negotiate a way out of afghanistan. he cloaked all that talk about retreat and withdrawal in these images about the great american victory in 1945. that's why it was so important to have the d-day veterans at the beginning and holocaust

survivors at the end. you got the traditional american power in service of what i and many analysts would say are actual policies of retreat and disengagement. it was a neat backflip. >> a neat backflip, but he's actually going to munich, being neville chamberlain with afghanistan and the taliban and syria and russia. >> it may be too early to say about afghanistan. syria, absolutely. >> i'm saying, if he retreats, of course, we were in normandy on june the 6th, 1944, for one reason. because republicans practiced isolationism from 1920 to 19 -- until december 7th, 1941. that's the part of the story he doesn't tell. i will say, i made a mistake saying we should get our troops out of iraq. we did get our troops out of

iraq in 2010, 2011. it did lead to a power vacuum that led to the creation of isis. i wonder -- again, a great political line but fraught with so many geopolitical consequences, most of which, david, are bad. >> they are bad. another thing i love about the state of the union speeches, you look at the uniform military, you look at the chiefs. >> yeah. >> and you see the face of american military power and you don't forget whatever the president is saying, there they are. the same thing with the supreme court. you are reminded of what the breadth of our republic is whenever the guy up on the podium is saying, and as concerned as i was about the call for pulling out quickly, you looked out at mark, the new incoming chief of the joints of

staff, he will resist it very quickly. >> thanks very much. still ahead on "morning joe," we will play you some of stacey abrams democratic response. >> and the mcconnell cautions trump about not shutting down. >> and the late senator mccain's book sales attacked, seriously. we'll talk about that. >> in so many ways. some major developments among many democrats aiming to challenge trump for 2020 presidency. what's going on in virginia? >> no one has benefitted more from a thriving economy than women, who have filled 58% of the newly created jobs last year.

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>> part of stacey abrams delivering the democratic response to president trump's state of the union last night, joining us now, former senator and msnbc news and msnbc political analyst, democrat, claire mccaskill working all night. welcome to the media. you don't sleep. how do you think stacey abrams did? >> i thought she was terrific. i loved the tone. she was tough but optimistic. i thought she was inspirational. i thought she really -- kind of really -- the most important line i thought she delivered was when she really took him to task for not telling the truth. this is the problem this president has. he has now lied so often, he lies like other people brush their teeth. it's very hard for people who are not big trump loyalists to take him seriously about almost anything. i thought she was very effective at the way she kind of framed

the issue of the president being the liar in chief. >> if i could correct, claire, for a second -- >> i don't think you're correcting claire -- >> i don't think most people brush that their teeth often. here's what she's talking about. >> even as i am very disappointed by the president's approach to our problems, i still don't want him to fail. but we need him to tell the truth and to respect his duties and respect the extraordinary diversity that defines america. >> claire, you're somebody that knew first hand, actually we're sitting around talking about all the lies about all the numbers, an immigrant invasion, actually a lower point at any time since 1971, about crime, which actually native-born americans are almost twice as likely to commit violent crimes and be incarcerated than illegal immigrants. he's talking about all these

caravans coming. i remember talking to you during the campaign. you said, you know what, joe, you can say what you want about that. out here on the campaign trail, it's working and it's sticking with voters. >> you know, he uses optics. he used the optics and the visuals. the poor people that were trying to get to this country in a really effective way during the campaign. i think the biggest lie, which you have said over and over again, joe, i hope people realize, is about the drugs. this is an administration who has not filled the paid positions they have to actually hire port entry officers. we are not staffed at the ports of entry, even at a fraction of their own staffing guidelines within their own department of port security. they're not between the ports. we had a record bust last week

of opioids at one of the points of entry. they haven't even prioritized higher more officers at the ports of entry, not on their agenda. the thing i thought was interesting is the train wreck that's coming. he signaled very clearly, i will not compromise on the wall. the house is not going to give him a wall. here's what's going to happen. we are going to be there again. the reason mitch mcconnell is apoplectic is he understands the resolution of disapproval. nancy pelosi can pass in the house a resolution for the president declaring an emergency in order to get around the fact he can't get the votes in congress. that then comes to the senate. mitch mcconnell can't block that resolution. it is a privileged resolution, which means within 15 days everybody has to vote on it. all of a sudden, the republicans, who love to wave their constitutions around, are going to be faced with a vote, are we really going to go on the

record and go down in history as the senate that said it's okay for a president, when he doesn't get his way on the matter of appropriations in congress, that he gets to do it anyway. >> that's fascinating. you're right. republicans love waving constitutions around. i think i had a constitution in my pocket as well as most members in congress, and we would lift it up and we would carry it around like a shield, because, sir, it says so in the united states constitution. >> the opposition party becomes the constitution party, right? >> exactly. now, it's actually, willie, the republicans who are celebrating the breaching of constitutional norms by celebrating a president who wants to take more power from the article i branch, who questions the power of an independent judiciary, it really is. this is sort of strange things,

where they go to the alternative reality, and they're upside down. that's where republicans are walking around zombie-like with their constitutions in their pocket. >> if you support the president of the united states taking over appropriations, then you forfeit your future right to argue for the constitution. i think, supreme court mccaskill, we've heard from mitch mcconnell and john cornyn, and a number of your senate colleagues on the republicans side alarm over the national emergency and lindsey graham saying we need to go along with the national emergency if that's what it comes to. we ought to support this president. what does it congressman to long term and do we get to the point it takes that power? ? number one, lindsey graham has lost his mind. i don't understand what has happened. >> what's he doing, senator? >> i do not know. it's beyond bizarre to me. this is not the man i served

shoulder to shoulder with so many years. i don't understand. it must have something to do with how he views the president. frankly, the notion this president was insulting john mccain yesterday, and lindsey graham is standing tall for him, i do not understand why lindsey graham is not throwing a haymaker in defense of john mccain towards this president. i don't get lindsey graham. i do get this. mitch mcconnell knows he will not keep his party united on this motion of disapproval if the president goes there. we will have a huge split in the republican party. that is mitch mcconnell's nightmare going forward the next two years. it's also a vote the kind of vote that can hurt you in an election. you look at republicans in tough states in 2020, thom tillis in north carolina, corey gardner in north carolina, and iowa. this is not a vote they want to take because mitch mcconnell is

very worried because he cannot avoid this vote being taken. >> just to put lindsey graham's behavior in the starkest relief possible, how does a man or a woman stay quiet when their dear friend, their political mentor, who is dead, is mocked and ridiculed and attacked by a sitting president of the united states? i think, for me, if someone did that to my dead friend or my dead mentor, for me, that's one of the few things in politics i would consider to be unforgivable. for lindsey graham. >> in real-time. >> you know what you call it. you calm it tuesday. that's what you call it. >> it has been incredible to watch president trump, whether scandal after scandal. in this case he's mocking a dead war hero. meghan mccain came out and said it's really disgusting my father is being insulted in death by this president.

i want to ask a question about stacey abrams response. she's the first african-american woman to deliver that response but also someone not holding political office. what do you think democrats are trying to say by having someone who isn't holding political office deliver this response? >> did they say it? >> i think they're saying run, stacey, run, for the senate in 2020. former colleagues in the senate are very excited about the idea of her being a candidate against david purdue in georgia in 2020. first of all, she's a remarkable communicator. she's incredibly smart and tough. she's the kind of candidate all of us want to see running in the democratic party. i think this was a way of saying to stacey, we want to elevate you to the national stage because we'd love to welcome you into the united states senate. >> claire, stay where you are. we'd love to talk to you about what is going on in virginia.

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all right. the woman accusing virginia's lieutenant-governor of sexual assault 15 years ago has now come forward. vanessa tyson, and associate professor at scripps college of california claims justin sexually assaulted her during a 2004 democratic convention in boston. tyson has hired the same legal team as christine blasey ford to represent her. lieutenant-governor fairfax claims the encounter was con essential. he released a statement that reads in part quote all allegations of sexual assault deserve to be take within profound gravity. the claims come amid much political uncertainty in the state. calls for governor ralph northam to step down continue to roll in after a racist photo from his past was unearthed last week. he now denies he's in the picture. lieutenant-governor fairfax is next in line to replace him.

claire, we wanted to get your take despite the evolving situation with fairfax. some 2020 candidates are more focused on governor northam's controversy in contrast to how they reacted to brett kavanaugh's accuser months ago. >> here's cory booker, by the time, in october. >> i believe her. i believe dr. ford. i still believe her. >> but confronted with allegations against lieutenant-governor fairfax yesterday, booker told the reporter, i think we should be focusing on what's right now happening with the governor. i know you guys are trying to focus on a lot of things right now. right now, my focus is on again calling for the governor to step down, and here's what elizabeth warren said during the kavanaugh allegations then and then yesterday regarding lieutenant-governor fairfax.

>> what do you think of the allegations against the lieutenant-governor justin fairfax. >> allegations have to be taken seriously, but it doesn't change the fact that governor northam needs to step down. >> i'm here with people of conscience who believe that when a woman comes forward that she has a right to be listened to and that there needs to be a full investigation. this woman and other women have come forward, as if their complaints don't matter, is an insult to every single woman in this country. >> while both kamala harris and kirsten gillibrand have called on the governor to step down they have been silent on the investigation after christine blasey ford coming forward. >> you have the courage to come

forward, because, as you have said, you believe it was your civic duty. >> do not back down, be heard, keep speaking out. speak that truth to power. i will stand with you. i will stand with survivors. >> there were, claire, an awful lot of people on twitter yesterday, saying that they believed the accuser, and all women should be believed. it's not as if all democrats or all progressives or all those who called out brett kavanaugh went mute yesterday on the issue, but certainly those running in 2020, who were so out front in the kavanaugh hearings are now being accused of a double standard. do you think that's fair? >> i think it is a moment of credibility that's important for these candidates. this door has to swing both ways. you cannot immediately accept

dr. ford's accusations without question, and then try to look the other way when there is an accusation that comes forward in this manner against the lieutenant-governor of virginia. i understand why corey would say, hey, we've got a governor who clearly needs to go, but we can't just brush aside this allegation. if we're going to be taken seriously as a party on this issue, it can't be about who they're accusing, it has to be about the substance of the accusation. >> it certainly, especially for a senator who declared, i am spartacus. yesterday, most definitely not a spartacus moment. hold on, i can only deal with one thing at a time. claire, mika had been complaining during the kavanaugh hearings that democrats had gotten out front too quickly

without knowing all the facts on the ground, and she kept saying, we don't know who in the world is telling the truth here and we have to listen, and we may never know that fact. she was roundly criticized by some on the left, but you were out there campaigning at the same time, mika's warning was then that this could hurt democratic candidates like you in senate races, and i'll be dammed if mika wasn't right again. >> mika was right again. good to hear you say that, joe. these cases are tough. i spent a lot of time in a courtroom trying cases like this. it is a matter of credibility in many instances as to who the jury believes, the victim or the defendant. the survivor or person accused of the assault. these are not, sometimes

especially in cases where the defense says consent. this is tough stuff. the notion we can make clear unquestionable decisions about who's telling the truth in the atmosphere of what's going on in virginia right now or in the atmosphere of what was going on in the kavanaugh confirmation. the political chaos surrounding this and pushing and pulling for power clouds your judgment who is telling the truth and who isn't. that's when we wish every one of these cases could be determined in a court of law and as we all know, sometimes determined in a court of opinion. >> that's the dangerous place for it, in my opinion. >> it is. >> you can take it to claire, it is okay to believe an accuser. i believer something terrible happened to christine blasey ford but we're not the jury and not doing the work claire has done in the court of law, which

is painstaking. i think i believe her needs to be followed up, but we need to know more or you will be stuck like cory booker or elizabeth warren and kristen gillibrand who has an accusation against him. what if one day one accusation is not necessarily that solid? >> this reminds me -- mika, this reminds me of the roy moore-al frank ken situation, where we were all piling on, on roy moore because of the evidence there. al franken, wonderful man in many ways, but there were a number of allegations against al franken. it was a moment a lot of people had to go, wait a minute, if we are going to be so judgmental about roy moore, can we actually just look the other way when there are a number of women who had come forward with accusations about misconduct on

the part of al. it was really a very similar situation that was politically very painful for everybody involved because he was our friend. >> for democrats to be credible in this me too era, they have to look at these allegations against justin fairfax and wonder whether or not there is a pattern of behavior here. it is hard because the allegations evolve around an encounter in a hotel room where there were two people. as a reporter written about this, there are a lot of times people tell their friends and family members soon after. were there contemporary people she told? >> she did go to the "washington post." >> she did go to the "washington post," justin fairfax says, and the "washington post" admitted they looked into this and didn't write a story. that as a reporter doesn't mean there are red flags or didn't believe her, maybe they didn't have the cooperation it would take. >> you would hope they would not

write this story unless they had some corroboration. but at the same time, during the kavanaugh hearings, some of the stories that were written about brett kavanaugh, they kept becoming more and more grand. by the end, it was drunken high school orgies in fairfax county or wherever it was, and some things that strained credibility. boom, immediately printed. >> and judged. >> and judged. >> this woman's credibility, forever you look at dr. ford's credibility and the woman blaming justin fairfax, there has to be credibility for this woman apart from stories lawyers come out later to maybe do a smear campaign against justin fairfax in this case, her story has to be told. the interesting thing, it's not a journalism standard or courtroom standard, a public opinion standard and virginian

voters looking at justin saying, do we trust this man to be governor of our state. >> claire mccaskill, again, i could ask you this question as a prosecutor, it wouldn't matter, i need to ask you as a politician, we are talking about the court of public opinion. i think everybody believed dr. ford that something happened to dr. ford. we werals wading through 30 years of fuzzy memories, and people saying they weren't here or they weren't there. in this case, you have a very credible woman, just like dr. ford, but she said, this was 2004, we were at the boston convention, i was working for john kerry, this hotel, and this is exactly what happened. >> yes. >> that, i believe, make, it an even greater challenge for democrats to just turn their head away because this is

inconvenient to them. >> it's painful, because i think all of us -- many democrats were hoping when northam messed up every way you could mess up. >> good lord, yes. >> about his medical school time and his costumes or not his costumes, we could turn the page and there would be a very clean transition of power to someone who was exciting, and then this surfaces. it is hard. we have to have credibility. you have to look at each incidence in context. i want to hasten to say before everyone lights up, i was not equating roy moore with al franken, not the same, but the allegations came forward multiple times which made it difficult for us to be taken seriously if we were just going to ignore that at the same time that all the roy moore stuff was going on. >> so hard. >> the process has to be consistent. >> it has to be consistent. >> one last note, we heard the dodges from democratic senators yesterday. another group of senators said we don't know what the claims

are or who this accuser is. now, we do. her name is vanessa tyson and a college professor and should be given the time to give her story like dr. ford was. >> if you check your constitution of virginia, people are asking the question, who's next? if the governor goes and the lieutenant-governor goes the next governor of the state is alexander hague. >> i'm in charge. >> a little 1991 for you kids. >> all right. >> dnc chairman tom perez joins us for the state of the union. and the state of the day, chuck schumer. and democratic candidate cullsty gabbard and republican congressman, dan crenshaw joins us. we will be right back. ill be ri.

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here in the united states we are alarmed by the new calls to adopt socialism in our country. america was founded on liberty and independence and not government coercion, domination and control. tonight, we renew our resolve that america will never be a socialist country. >> i think he needs to do it because he feels like he feels himself losing on the issues. every single policy proposal we have adopted and presented to the american public has been overwhelmingly popular, even some with a majority of republican voters supporting what we're talking about. i think he sees himself losing on the issues. he sees himself losing on the wall on the southern border and

he needs to grasp the attack and this is his way of doing it. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, february 6th. along with joe, willie and me, we have nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of "kasie dc" working around the clock, kasie hunt and george with us and former national security advisor to president obama, now an nbc contributor, ben rhodes and the chairman of the dnc, tom perez. strong group this morning. good to have you. >> you just heard the president's line, we will never be a socialist nation. i don't know how many people come up to you and say, hey, i remember a line you wrote in the early 1980s, but i remember a line you wrote in the early '80s, and it stuck with me. you were talking about the conflict between wanting reagan tax cuts but fdr benefits. you decided in the early 1980s

correctly the jury had spoken, and your conclusion was we are all children of fdr now. >> we are indeed. the american people political scientists have been saying for 50 years our rhetorical conservatives and operational liberals talk like jeffersonians that government is best and least and vote consistently for hamilton tonians. the word "socialism" is bandied and redefined but if it means redistribution of government of wealth 66% of the governments transfer payments. the sky is dark with checks going back and forth. that's what the government does. >> it's good to know there's still a few conservatives left in washington, d.c. tom perez. by the time, katty kay had a great line in 2009, when "newsweek" had this banner headline that said, are we all socialists now? and katty said, being from britains said you americans make

the worst socialists i have ever seen. you define yourselves and your existence by your work. tom, i'm curious, what was your first take from the president's state of the union speech? >> what did he accomplish, if anything? >> he fed red meat to his base. that was job one for him and he did it. we talked about this. enough of that. what was notable, three things, what was unsaid and undersaid, and then his use of d-day heroes, which i'm baffled by. what was unsaid, we didn't talk about climate. we didn't talk about the government shutdown. i sat next to fred guttenberg, father of one of the victims in parkland, who watched him ask for support, understandable support for people who had lost their loved ones. fred is saying, when are we going to talk about gun violence? when are we going to talk about jamie? when are we going to talk about

all the other people? unsaid, student debt and equal pay, all these discussions critical, undiscussed. the underdiscussed items, one sentence on pre-existing conditions. the number one issue in this country is healthcare. let's do a time meter how much time he spent talking about immigration, the manufactured crisis at the border versus what am i going to do to help the diabetic. so many people with diabetes worried about losing their health insurance and they don't know how the heck they will pay for insulin. >> it's almost as if he completely ignored the results from the midterm election. >> it meant nothing. >> the greatest loss in vote total for the republican party, or any party in the history of this republic, and he was talking about the same thing. during this shutdown, he was talking about the same thing. he is taking this political

plane straight into the ground and he's not changing course. >> you've noted that before. president obama referred to getting shellacked. you heard president clinton talk about the era of big government is over. he didn't even win the majority in 2016. usually -- i remember george w. bush, after he was awarded the presidency, at least trying to make some entreaties to folks to bring people together. here we have -- it's a very curious electoral strategy. you have lost so many parts of your core base. you see obama trump voters coming back to obama. you see obama stay at home voters who came back and voted. obama jillstein voters who understand i have to get back and vote for the democrats because of the economy -- >> they're not going to vote information a candidate that speaks russian next time?

>> the same as you, i worked on eight of these. the most precious resource in the state of the union is time. what are you going to spend your time on. tom is secretary of labor and gets his stuff in that speech. you're laying out the whole agenda for the whole year. he used the most time by far on the same thing he talked about before the midterm election and loss and the same thing on the shutdown and loss. >> 24% of americans, only 24% of americans supported donald trump's strategy of shutting down the government for a wall. and he chose to focus on that issue. >> yeah. >> he talks about, this is his term, not mine, the economic miracle. >> incredible. >> he talks about more women than ever in the workforce. they're in low wage jobs, working two and three jobs because they can't make ends meet. >> the women in the audience, they ran because they were so

fed up with him. >> i was looking down at the -- >> do you get this? >> it's very interesting he talked about the economic miracle, willie, that was one of the most interesting terms for me. first of all, over 50% of economists say we will be in a recession next year. secondly, if you look at all the lines, this is a gradual recovery. we're in what, the eighth year of the recovery now. every recovery, as george knows better than all of us, every recovery has its cycles, has its start and has its end. this one is likely coming to an end. this is not a miracle, a straight line. >> which isn't to say any president wouldn't tout low employment, he did what you expect a president to do. >> but i wouldn't call it an economical miracle. there are a lot of people in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania and ohio, who voted for him, who don't say feels like i'm in this middle of an economic miracle. >> the start isn't jobs,

economic security. if you're worried about losing your healthcare, you're not economically secure. if you're working three jobs to make ends meet you're not economically secure. if your salary went up but a buck but cost of living went up $2, you're behind. that's what stacey abrams was talking about. >> i thought it was great but probably part of your job is to make sure democrats don't underestimate the incumbent. what political strengths did he show? >> i never underestimate this president. he won the presidency in 2016. anyone who says we don't need to worry has their head in the sand. >> by the time, tom, can i just have you spread the message to democrats? we got shellacked, mika and i, for the last month of the campaign, and willie, and people like -- there were a few others out there, mark halperin said it and steve schmidt said it, we

said that donald trump could win. we got shellacked for the last month because they didn't want to hear it. actually, that should be on the tip of their tongue everyday. donald trump can get reelected. donald trump can win! >> i ran for this office of dnc chair because i understood that. we ignore this president at our peril. what we're doing at the dnc is organizing early, organizing everywhere. what i'm most proud of, we've become a 50 state party again. we have members of congress from oklahoma, kansas, south carolina. we won seven governor seats flipped from red to blue, the first time that's happened since 1982, gained almost 400 seats net in state legislatures because we became an every zip code, every state party. we have to continue to do that. that's how you win in 2020, not only the presidency, up and down the ballot.

the most important thing you can do what stacey abrams did last night, articulate american values and vision. we believe in an america that works for everyone and believe when we put optimism in our vision, we're the best. >> tom, one more piece of solicited advice ben would agree with as well as because barack obama went through it. the more the merrier. the tour of the primary, the tour of the candidate in the general election. let them run. it's great. that's the mistake democrats made in 2016, they tried to coron nate somebody. it doesn't work. >> joe, i agree with you once again. if we have 15 candidates in the race, 14 won't make it to the mountaintop, i think that is a first class challenge to have, having a large field. our job is simple, make sure everybody gets a fair shake. that's why our debates, we will draw straws. >> i love it. >> before you go, we have the accuser of the lieutenant-governor in the state

of virginia, her name is vanessa tyson, a college professor, do you believe her accusation against the lieutenant-governor? >> i believe she is entitled to due process. we need to always take these allegations seriously. i said this whenever this issue has come up. we must accord respect to an accuser and we must accord due prote process to the accused. >> republicans say brett kavanaugh didn't get that. >> when you give the fbi a week to do that. >> we don't want to relitigate iraq or brett kavanaugh, was given due process? >> we weren't given time to determine the facts because an artificial deadline was set on the kavanaugh hearing for conducting an investigation. i worked for the justice department over a decade. i never put a timeline on -- as

an fbi agent. >> and due process. all right. george will, much to talk about here. first, let's talk about virginia. this is turning into quite a mess now. it looks like the attorney general may be the next governor of the state of virginia -- >> at the rate we're going. >> at the rate we're going. >> or the current president's driver, if they go down that far. >> it strikes me as a little disproportionate frankly someone 35 years after, when a silly sophomoric picture was taken, you should overturn an election in the state of virginia. rage is the default position of a lot of people nowadays, they're only happy when they're unhappy. they're furious how they start each day. there's a normal impulse in draeksz democracies to bring

down those high. governor northam is high, he will be brought down. once you start this and say there's zero tolerance, which always mean zero thinking about the nuances of the case, it's hard to stop a cascade of mob actions. >> that's interesting, ben, because i'm hearing actually a lot of my liberal friends saying, i don't want donald trump impeached. i don't want the vote overturned by an investigation, i want the vote overturned by the vote. >> yeah. >> i'm hearing this more and more, that people are saying, no, there needs to be a referendum on trumpism and it needs to be soundly defeated in 2020. >> i think the healthiest thing for democracy is have that run its course and have the voters rebuke trumpism and choose somebody different. the perspective i care about the

rest of the world. the rest of the world is looking at the trump presidency and concerned about deficit being president and concerned about the fact deficit got elected president. the best message sent to the rest of the world, americans showed they have taken a look at this and rejected this path at the ballot box. i do believe that is the best way to deal with this and bring change. we don't know what's going to come out. if you're sitting in the house and you're nancy pelosi and you have very serious crimes revealed in the mueller investigation, what do you do with that? there has to be some process and accountability. all things being equal, the best thing to happen for our democracy is for there to be a rejection of donald trump at the ballot box and a new person sent to washington. >> kasie, is there factual things incorrect when the president said them during the state of the union? >> certainly, i think mayszy --

mazie hirono may have said it correctly, her quote was wtf, and we're not used to senators using that kind of language even obliquely coming off the floor of the house after an event like this. that certainly captured how democrats felt. that said, we have seen republicans try to explain away a lot of this stuff over time. there's also, you know, a certain tolerance now for this. obviously, we work really hard to identify it every single time it happens. but the sheer number of times that it happens makes it kind of difficult to keep up with. >> kasie, i'm curious, are you hearing from more and more republicans, like john cornyn yesterday was just about as strait forward as he could be on why declaring a national emergency is a bad idea and other republicans calling out

the president for some of his lies on immigration. is there more recognition of that or will they continue riding the falsehoods donald trump attaches to the issues that led to the worst defeat since watergate? >> i think there are signs of a shift. if you listen to the way mitch mcconnell talked about it this week opposed to the government shutdown, you will notice small but significant shifts how this is playing out. you have to listen very closely. i don't think we're at the point we can declare republicans who stood by this president through thick and thin so far whether out of love or fear are ready to break with him en masse. however, there are fundamentals around this president shifting over time. his approval is dropping. you saw for the first time, soft

ratings among republican voters. you are getting to the point where there are republicans willing to say on these policy issues near and dear to us for a very long time, we are not going to stand by, we are going to, even if they're symbolic, pass resolutions about troops in syria and afghanistan. ey say, no. i think the shutdown experience was so bad, all bets are off how this will unfold if in fact the president decides he wants to walk away from it. >> on that, i want to show you the interview with mitch mcconnell on the declaration of the state of emergency. >> did you privately urge the president not to declare a state of national emergency? >> what i said is pretty much what we're talking about here. what is the procedure. we've not had the procedure before because the national emergencies issued in the past have not been contentious. i'm pretty sure that this one

would be. >> george, really, he didn't say much, except it doesn't look like a good idea, maybe? >> mitch mcconnell started his washington career in the senate mailroom in the late 1960s. he's an institutionalist. he has what madison wanted which is an attachment more to the institution than -- i think he will defend it. i think when this is over, when the history of this time gets written, mitch mcconnell will be seen as a hero, someone who was the real resistance. i went back and read the 1974 state of the union by richard nixon. 1973 had been appalling, tapes released and all that. it was an excruciating speech with a laundry list of things. at the bottom, he said, one year, watergate is enough.

190 days later he resigned. things can move in a hurry. you mentioned about the state of the economy. very robust right now. since the second world war, the average length of an economic expansion has been 58 months. in june, this will be 10 years old, 112 months. economists argue fervently whether expansions die of old age or have to be killed by some event, bad policy, some shock. we don't know but we will find out. >> if you take the two things george said, first of all, if you have to do, as trump said, ask congress not to investigate you, you're losing. >> that's not a good day. >> that's not something i had to do in eight years, stand up and ask congress not to investigate him. that's a problem. all this talk about economic miracle and it stretched way back into the obama years. you look what trump is doing, he

is accelerating potential for a slowdown or down turn with the trade war and china and bellicose rhetoric and uncertainty with the government shutdown. he's setting himself up, joe, if we're sitting here a year from now, the only thing he has he can talk about are positive economic indicators. if we're sitting here for an election with the economy slowing down you will see the bottom coming out. >> you will see in 30 second ads, "economic miracle." >> and we need peace and legislation, not war. he said we need to get out of both those countries. i promised it when i ran for president. what did you make of that, given the senate vote when they said this was a terrible idea, led by republicans to get out of syria and afghanistan right now? >> walking in different

directions, he's the one that introduced the military options in venezuela and he introduced the troops in the middle east are there for iran. those were not there a year ago. >> and the crisis on the border. he's talking about peace but taking steps sabre rattling for war. the other thing that was bizarre, maybe this is the speechwriter for me, is conflation in these things. what does investigation and war have in common, almost like a threat. >> it was strange. >> it was very strange. maybe not the best turn of phrase. there is something very disturbing about a president linking matters of war and peace to the fact he might be credibly investigated. >> don't you think getting out of afghanistan after 18 years resonates with a lot of americans? >> yes. i'm entirely for that and think we should have done more to get out of afghanistan by now.

>> thanks very much. still ahead, alexandria ocasio-cortez isn't the only freshman in the house gaining attention. republican dan crenshaw is making big waves and joins the conversation. we'll be back in a moment. on we'll be back in a moment. welcome to fowler, indiana. one of the windiest places in america. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here... the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed.

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and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today. and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team. the team? gooo team... order online pickup in an hour. and, now save big at the buy 2 get 1 free event. at office depot officemax. (thunderclap) if your day doesn't unfold as predicted. unfold this.

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a business owner always goes beyond what people expect. that's why we built the nation's largest gig-speed network along with complete reliability. then went beyond. beyond clumsy dials-in's and pins. to one-touch conference calls. beyond traditional tv. to tv on any device. beyond low-res surveillance video. to crystal clear hd video monitoring from anywhere. gig-fueled apps that exceed expectations. comcast business. beyond fast. great nations do not fight endless wars. in afghanistan, my administration is holding constructive talks with a number of afghan groups, including the

taliban. as we make progress in these negotiations, we will be able to reduce our troop's presence and focus on counter-terrorism. we do not know whether we'll achieve an agreement but we do know that after two decades of war, the hour has come to at least try for peace, and the other side would like to do the same thing. it's time. >> it's time. joining us now, a member of the house, budget. >> he has a breathing thing going, noticed that? >> when he's reading prompter, he doesn't like it, makes him think too much and gets nervous and he starts going -- it's a thing. >> we didn't have to go that deep. i was saying. >> when he's talking he never has that problem but hates the prompter, being told what to say and being told what to read.

>> alex is saying in our ear, i love the prompter, mika, now read it. >> i just might, i just might not. >> house budget and homeland security committee republican congressman, dan crenshaw, of texas, he is a decorated combat veteran. >> are we live? >> you know, you have just asked a question that has been asked on this show for 11 years, people stop in during breaks, wait, are we on tv? >> we really are. >> we're actually live right now. >> yeah. >> this was your first state of the union address. >> yeah. >> what did you think? >> it was exciting. i have nothing to compare it to. it is something. it doesn't matter who is in charge or in there. it is something to be at the state of the union. i don't care what you say. >> agreed. >> you look around and see everybody there, the supreme court. >> absolutely. >> the military. no doubt about it. david has some questions.

>> i wanted to ask congressman crenshaw a little bit about the foreign policy side of the speech. it wasn't the preponderance obviously. the president said it. great nations do not fight endless wars. you served in iraq and afghanistan. you're the perfect person to ask whether you're comfortable with the timetable the president is talking about, about getting out of these wars, a lot of people fear he's moving way too quickly in syria and squandering gains we made there. what do you think about those two? >> i can simultaneously agree you shouldn't fight endless wars. as you know, i've been a strong proponent holding the line in syria, especially. we have the right balance. what i tell this president is you've actually found the right balance. what we were doing before was an overstep, definitely an overstep, trying to build an entire nation and trying to police the war. that was awful.

and then he pulled too far out of president obama trying to pull out of iraq. i don't want the president to make the same mistake. >> what happens when you push back with donald trump and say, mr. president, i understand your general theme here but not so quickly, be careful. what does he say to you? >> he's actually pretty open to this. he does listen to his members of congress, give him a lot of respect for. he gives members of congress quite a bit of time. this is an ongoing discussion. that doesn't mean he will agree with what i have to say. his arguments are they can maintain a presence in iraq and still watch what's happening in syria and take action, if necessary. i of course push back on that. i would say, listen, we watched isis as they came through iraq and there was nothing we could do about it. we were not that far away, we had troops in kuwait. >> they used turkey as the gateway to syria. you can't stop that in iraq as

well as you can in syria. you brought up a great point, you talked about how this was sustainable. we found the right balance. i spoke to one very well-known general, who basically said we have learned a lot of really difficult lessons over the past few decades. but the syria operation shows we have learned those lessons, even in this political environment, that sort of deployment, that is sustainable politically, which means it's sustainable military. >> right. what i would ask all politicians to do is start speaking about this in more honest terms, okay? the most honest way to talk about this is this, we go there so they don't come leer. we're not fighting a war necessarily, putting guys like me, my old friends out there just to keep pressure on them so they don't come here. that's the best way to talk about it. no politics on either side have really hit that point home over the last couple of decades.

>> how does that apply then, congressman, in afghanistan, a place you served and earned a couple of bronze stars and purple heart and were wounded. we heard the president talk about 18 years of war in afghanistan, my god, let's bring those men and women home. what's your view of your president should be in afghanistan? >> i'm supportive of the president's idea to have talks with the taliban. i'm very skeptical how that will go. what he shade last night he wound want to maintain a counter-terrorism presence there. that's fine, about the right balance. the idea we can control the rural areas in afghanistan is fantasy. that's where i was hurt and where we continue to take territory and cede it right back. we need to maintain a presence there to keep building up. >> how comfortable are you with how the president receives information and uses it to make foreign policy decisions. we know he talked to erdogan

about syria and seemed to make an impetuous decision and the james mattis decision, watershed moment and not clear he was talking to his top general. does he need to be listening to our military leaders? >> i'm not enough of an insider to know how that decision process occurs? >> you see the same reports we do. >> the fact he would have a group of members of congress from the house come into his office and talk to him about these things for an hour and in a very open way, shows he is certainly open to different points of view. he knows we're coming there in to disagree with him. i think he deserves a little bit of respect for that. >> i understand the president talking about endless wars. but i believe we've made this mistake before when we retreated from iraq, something i supported, something the majority of americans supported. we created a vacuum. isn't it time to reframe this

issue, not so much as an endless war as an american presence, strategic american presence, much like the presence we have in south korea, much like the presence we had in germany since world war ii? >> i think you put it just right. this is part of being a global power, having forces deployed. >> we learned, david, the past couple of years, when we're not there, bad things happen. >> we leave vacuums that are filled by others. that's about to start, as i think congressman crenshaw would agree, in northeastern syria, to our potential at a great cost. one thing i would ask, congressman, one face we didn't see we're used to, jim mattis, secretary of defense. i'm curious whether you have concerns, think men and women in uniform have concerns general mattis, the person they depend on, is gone now and they're worried about an undamped

oscillation from the white house now? >> i haven't seen that yet. i don't think it's sunk in. there was an initial shock from the military members. everybody liked general mattis. i will say when president trump did take office, there was definitely an increase in morale. the reason is he was giving troops what they needed and the freedom to do the mission we asked them to do, a change from the last administration, we weren't making them fight with one hand behind their back. >> david, your reporting out of syria confirmed that, didn't you? >> what the congressman says is exactly right. the commander said, folks, we wouldn't have gotten that bridge or that town if we didn't have a new president who allowed us to act more quickly. >> hmm. >> let's talk about a couple of crisis that are bubbling up right now. venezuela. is it a mistake for the president to send troops to venezuela? >> it's definitely too early to send troops to venezuela.

you never want to take any options off the table in a situation like this because as soon as you do, you signal to maduro he can start killing his own people. if we don't think he won't do that i think we're being naive. we definitely need to rely on other partners in the region, colombia being a major one. colombia has been one of major allies and an absolute success story and want to be a leader in the region. let's watch this play out and continue to give the vocal support to guiado and fight for the freedom of the venezuelan people. the president said about the speech about the border wall i will get it built. he made that promise again. we're nine days away from the next potential government shutdown. you have defended the idea of a wall, not sea to shining sea but a partial wall along the border. is there something the president can give to before next friday, i got some wall but maybe not

the full wall, i got some wall. what should that negotiation look like who said there should be no wall. >> i have talked to so many democrats in private and once they see what we're talking about, not a sea to sea shining wall, it is 434 miles of fencing where they identified they need extra barriers. that's the plan, i know the rhetoric is overheated and basically -- >> is that the president's plan that has been presented to nancy pelosi? >> yes. that's what people don't understand. that $5.7 billion didn't come from the president himself making it up, that came from the department of homeland security over years of analysis. that's the compromise. it's technology, drones, fiberoptic cables along those walls. it's a smart fence, if you will. it's more than that even. 75 more immigration judges. this is a huge issue, added detention facilities. we need to adjudicate these

immigrants as they're coming through and it's a crisis because we have more families coming through than ever before. we can't deal with this, we're asking our border patrol to be a humanitarian crisis management team. >> you're saying humanitarian crisis but is there a crisis at the border as the president said? >> i was there last week. in one day, a thousand migrants came through, one day. this is the rio grand valley sector. about 40% of total immigrants come through this part. in this brownsville area, only 6% of that sector make it through there. why? they have about 35 miles of fencing, very secure. in the area they don't have that infrastructure where 44% of migrants come through, 1,000 a day. >> would you agree it's a 50 year low? >> 7400,000 a year is not low. if you told me we had a million homicides and now have 400,000 homicides, would you say everything is great? >> i wouldn't say everything is

great but wouldn't say it's a crisis. >> i think 400,000 people coming across unimpeded, the border patrol say we catch 1 in 3. 400,000 coming across. if you want to have a conversation about illegal immigrants we can have that conversation. the president said last night we are a pro legal immigration country. and we shouldn't have tolerance for illegal immigrants because that cuts in front of those coming in legally. >> we have to go. >> joining us from capitol hill, chuck schumer of new york. >> thank you so much for being with us. we will get to the speech in one moment. we have to start with spring training. are the yankees preparing for another second place season this year behind the red sox? >> you know, they still need some more starting pitching, joe. they just do. they're not doing enough in that regard, not getting the real stars. they have a lot of hitting.

they have backups at many of the positions. gee whiz, i've never understood my giants football not drafting an offensive line and i don't understand the yankees not focussing on pitching, starting pitching. >> continue to lose that focus. last night -- >> by the time, i rooted for the patriots, i rooted for the patriots. they were really exquisite. they were amazing. >> that had to be hard. >> painful as that was, painful as that was. i'm very mad at -- i'm mad at the rams for leaving st. louis. i fought hard, as you know, to keep the bills in buffalo. these teams shouldn't get up and leave just to make more money. >> all right. speaking of painful. >> nice talking to you. see you in a few weeks. >> exactly. what was your take on the president's speech last night? >> i think stacey abrams showed the president what real leadership was. she was empathetic, she was compassionate. she talked about the real

america where middle class people are worried about staying in the middle class, people trying to get to the middle class think it's harder to get there. the president was political, he was divisive, calculating. at times he was even nasty. you cannot give a speech where you talk about unifying and all the emphasis on the speech was divisiveness. that won't fly. he was sort of like dr. kekyjek and mr. hyde but more enthusiastic about the mr. hyde role. >> last night, he was insulting you as well as insulting a deseized american war hero, john mccain? >> i can answer. john mccain is an american war hero but he is who he is. that got his goat. for 364 days he's divisive and he gives a speech and talks about unity, he has to keep doing it.

he answered mine with an epithet. answer on the merits. i don't mind that. >> good to see you. based on what you heard last night from the president on border security, how confident are you that we are not going to have another government shutdown at the end of next week? >> the president's in a bubble. he doesn't get what's going on. he plays to about 30% of america and thinks that's sufficient. you heard his speech, you said, uh-oh. if the president stays out of it, i am confident the democrats and republicans, house and senate, can come up with an agreement, agreement each side can live with and we can pass it. we have done that on two previous budgets. >> i don't disagree with you based on my reporting. how confident are you the president can stay out of it? >> i don't know. he can't help himself. he's in a hole. he had a great opportunity in that speech to dig himself out of the hole.

everyone is yearning for unity, everyone is yearning for coming together. on the potential unifying pieces, brushed over them. didn't talk about real infrastructure bill, mentions in one line he's for paid family leave and talked about that before. he gets excited about the most divisive parts of the speech, immigration, abortion, things like that. this president can't help himself out of his hole. that's a real problem here. >> david ignatius. >> mr. leader, one of the signature lines in the speech i thought was when president trump denounced the ridiculous partisan investigations. at another point he said he wanted peace and legislation, not war and investigation. >> yeah. >> can i ask you, as directly as i can, whether the congress, the senate are going to give him that relief from investigation or whether you think the congress will push ahead as fast

as it can? >> i think that, look, the article -- one of the article i functions of the legislative branch, congress, is oversight of the executive branch. the founding fathers were worried, with justification, we see more than ever today, of an overreaching executive. oversight, if it's done in a careful thoughtful way and all indications are it is, even republicans in the house are praising how the democrats are beginning to proceed in the house, that's our function. i'd ask this question. what is the president afraid of? if he had nothing to hide, he'd shrug his shoulders at these investigations. once again, this seems to be his new mo, holds the american people hostage, if you investigate me we will not make any progress. what kind of president is that? stacey abrams showed such leadership and strength. here is the president talking that the economy is great. it is a great if you're into stock buybacks.

it's great if you're the wealthiest in america. the average american doesn't feel they have a great future. stacey talked about that. the president acted like everything is great. means he is only talking to people who are doing well. >> leader shuman, great to see you. a lot of americans watched that last night and when they said americans will never be a socialist country, a lot of people were sitting on their hands and not applauding that. schumer. what's your drift on socialism? >> we all believe strongly in democracy. there are people in the democratic party who want more government intervention, i wouldn't quite call it socialism. >> democratic socialists. >> yeah. the bottom line is all of us believe that when you look at the state of the union on the economy, it's not good for middle class families. they're worried, even more

worried about their children, look at the state of the union on healthcare, failing middle class families. this is the first year we have fewer people covered than a year before. so, you know, you have to focus on what's really happening here. the president is just not doing that. one of the things really that galled me, he says, we have to protect, we have to keep protecting pre-existing conditions. at the very same time his administration is engaged in a lawsuit to eliminate protections for pre-existing conditions. the hypocrisy is mon you -- monumental. i have never seen it in another president, not even harding. >> can you state or undermine what donald trump said last night, said that basically suggesting that democrats want to turn america into a socialist country. as leader of the democrats and

the senate, do you support that? hold on. do you support american capitalism and do you think american capitalism is worth defending and fighting for? >> okay. the answer is we are a capitalist country, yes, you have to work with capitalism. that doesn't mean you shouldn't make it better. >> agreed. >> i put out an op-ed, you would be sympathetic to this, joe, i heard you talk about these buybacks, where we said, listen to this number. from 2007 to 2016, the top 500 companies, 83% of their profits went to buybacks and dividends. none of that money goes to helping their workers other communities. that's why senator sanders and i said we should not allow buybacks. they didn't used to exist before 1980 unless they will help their workers. that's not socialism. that's putting guard rails on capitalism, what we need.

>> didn't you and other democrats warn republicans if they voted for this trump tax cut, that they would mainly be helping huge multinational corporations have stock buybacks? >> that's just what happened. remember what donald trump said, this tax bill will give every american a $4,000 tax increase. if your income is over a million dollars a year, you probably got more than that. if you're an average middle class family you didn't see close to that. he's listening to some of these hard right people. they are saying the only type of capitalism that should exist is without guard rails, back in the 1890s. we believe we need to improve capitalism and have it -- in the '60s, joe, corporations had much more of an obligation not just to their shareholders but communities and america. it's evolved to they're slave initially devoted to their

shareholders. that's not socialism, that's improving capitalism. big business doesn't like it and americans call it socialism but it's not. >> thanks very much. red sox. >> stop. one of the things that sets presidential candidate tulsi z-babard apart from donald trump ahead of 2020 unlike the president she wasted no time denouncing david duke and rejecting his endorsement. the democratic congresswoman joins us ahead on "morning joe." i've got to tell you

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we fought jim crow with the civil rights act and the voting rights act. yet we continue to fight racism in our past and our present. we must hold everyone from the highest offices to our own families accountable for racist words and deeds and call racism what it is, wrong.

>> exactly. now, stacey abrams i thought was really strong. she was deeply personal a lot of times. i wonder, you know, what the reaction is, what you're hearing in terms of -- these responses are difficult. they often don't go well, but i'm hearing really good things. >> i'm hearing from some source who's say the responses are usually terrible and this one wasn't terrible. >> exactly. >> she also mixed the personal with the professional and this idea that she was in some ways talking about her own race and saying, i understand i didn't win but i also think the democratic party should be forward thinking. just the optics of stacey abrams delivering this, the idea that the democratic party and candidates after candidates have been talking about diversity but haven't reflected it in their own staff, having her deliver this sends a message not just

talking about racism but including people. it goes back to the idea that she was delivering a pretty stern rebuke of the president with a smile. she said, tell the truth. basically, you're using people at pawns and using federal workers as pawns. that's a really important message that democrats wanted out there. >> for sure. >> i think stacey abrams also, beyond the race issue, has shown how a personal story can be a powerful tool in talking about her debt that was something her opponents could use against her. yeah, i've had a hard time just like all of you. i've picked myself up and people didn't punish her for it. >> we want to continue to mark black history month. you wanted to highlight katherine johnson, johnson was born in west virginia in 1918. she was one of three black students hand picked to attend west virginia university graduate schools where she

enrolled in the math program in 1939. she would go on to work for nasa and was recently honored in the oscar nominated movie "hidden figures," tell us more about this remarkable woman. >> what i love about her is she's someone that can get her flowers while she's still alive. she was in "hidden figures." she's someone who was critical in nasa developing ways for people to go and explore space and this is an african-american woman who i'm sure faced all sorts of challenges in office in climbing up and learning about science and being -- being somewhat at the forefront of nasa. she's really important and someone i think is incredible. >> i love her story. still ahead from immigration to the economy, we'll fact check the president's state of the union. what, if anything, did he achieve last night? and a quick look of this photo of nancy pelosi that went viral. this morning "the washington post" is calling her the, quote,

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the other investigations of this matter to an end. >> if there is going to be peace in legislation, there cannot be war and investigation. it just doesn't work that way. >> one year of watergate is enough. >> so would you call that trump's nixon moment? >> i would call it very nixonian. i would say trump goes to nixon, yes. >> full nixon. welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, february 6th. we have david ignatius, white house correspondent for pbs news hour yamiche alcindor is with us and political contributor rick tyler and author and nbc news presidential historian michael beshla. >> michael, let's start with you. it ring a richard nixon, didn't it?

we've played that clip before many mike pence said one year of these investigations enough, but last night it was donald trump who was channeling the ghost of richard millhouse nixon. >> maybe not for the first time. the difference is, joe and mika, in mixon's case at least he had the self-restraint to wait until the end of the speech. in trump's case it came very early on and also in trump's case it was tied to a threat. i have never -- for all of the state of the union addresses, i have never heard a president deliver a threat like that unless you relieve me of these so-called ridiculous partisan investigations, there's not going to be any legislation. that's a new one. >> yes. >> that is in a state of the union address but it's what he said before democrats were sworn in at the beginning of the year. >> right, right. >> this is a threat repeated, but willie yesterday how he

talked about how i had written three books and i went back to look and see if it was still the consistent conservative i was and unfortunately, i discovered that i was but unfortunately i was also embarrassed that i had written the same exact book three times. >> copy and paste. >> come on. >> the same happens with donald trump's speeches. we hear the same thing every year and has bob costa tweeted in the middle of the speech last night, despite all the protests that we're going to hear something different or that this is -- he's channeling stephen miller or he's channeling bannon, this is donald trump because this is the same speech donald trump always gives. >> yeah. if you look at that speech that he made -- i actually went back and watched the top of it again when he came down the escalator. it's not that different in pieces when he talks about

immigration than what he said right at the top of this speech. this is who he is. yes, stephen miller has found a vessel in donald trump to promote his world view and ideas on immigration, but the president we heard standing in that room last night as president of the united states was not a lot different than the guy we heard come down the escalator in june of 2015. >> when someone tells you who they are believe them the first time. >> and the president's been telling us who he is over and over again even before he started running for president in some ways. the president is really wedded to this idea that immigrants are criminalizing america and the wall is the only way to stop it. the president said i will build that wall and what i heard as a reporter who's waiting for the shutdown to see if we'll end up with another one, yeah, i want to have a little bit of unity but i don't want to compromise on anything especially the wall which is the reason we got a 35 day shutdown in the first place. >> we can compromise except for the wall which is the one thing

we can't compromise on. >> everything he said there, the speech was just packed with lies. he talked about an economic miracle. there's no economic miracle. we're in the middle of eight year recovery that may be slowing down a bit. he talks about crime and showcases a family who suffered a horrific tragedy to try to highlight a trend that's not a trend at all. in fact, we know that native born american are far more likely to commit violent crimes and be incarcerated than illegal immigrants and then, of course, border crossings, the lowest since 1971. the lowest since 1971. the year that david ignatius was born. that's a long time. >> fact checker. >> let me start by saying, as

speeches go it was a good speech. i don't know that it was a great state of the union speech. it had a lot of applause lines. there was a lot of people for -- there was a lot for people to like if you were a republican. maybe not for a democrat. i thought the worse part of it was the immigration because of the way he painted immigrants and that -- to me as a conservative -- >> by the way, not because he's being insensitive, which he is and racist which i believe he is, but because he's just flat out lying to the american people. >> wrong. >> they're just wrong about the numbers. the way they characterize and paint immigration -- legal immigration has always been a net positive in the country. it remains in that positive, but the whole crisis is phony

because immigration numbers are probably close to a 50 year low and so what crisis are we trying to solve? what is the problem we're having? worse for his political party is when you begin to alienate minorities and hispanics, what is the future of the republican party? those are voters that the republican party will need -- >> right. they're standing and clapping. i don't get. >> what's remark shall to me is that is a lecture that carl rove -- i remember him coming and talking to the republican class 1998, '99 lecturing us, saying you guys got to get right with hispanics in '98 and '99. that was george w. bush's message. he got 43% of the hispanic vote in 2004. so david, by the way, is it a sin for me to love george conway as much as i do and it's not because he shows --

>> who's asking you this? >> do you see his tweets yesterday? these are the lowest border crossings since 1971, '72, he put every year down, two tweets just to show how fantastical the lie was. interesting. you said it was a good political speech. if you're a republican peggy noonan, actually, who was no fan of donald trump's presidency said the same thing. it was an effective speech on issues. but, david, there's so many things i saw republicans standing for that depressed me last night, but one i did not expect them to stand up and applaud, donald trump, bragging about destroying the inf treaty and launching a new nuclear arms race, but they did. >> the republicans were a jack-in-the-box all night. they were -- they'd sit down and

boing right back up again. they were determined to do the standing ovation thing. the state of the union speeches are particular form of theater and i thought that trump this year got that form of theater better than he had. i thought he used the room effectively. i thought reagan pioneered this technique of having people in the galleries and these were well chosen. i thought there was a narrative we begin with d day, we closed with the people who liberated the holocaust camps. i think that was moving and powerful. and i thought the most amazing thing was that this president accused of being a massage in any event, perhaps guilty of other sexual -- >> you can actually say, caught on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women because he was famous. >> so that person, you know, caught on tape with the famous

"hollywood access" tape in this room using the tools of this address ended up leading the cheers for women's rights and even the women in white celebrating the suffragettes and all their achievements were clapping along with him -- >> i feel like they were celebrating themselves and laughing at him. i got a weird double message from them where they were like exactly, we are here. >> thank you. >> i will see you soon. >> i'm not sure the country as a whole -- i thought that in all those ways he used the room effectively. >> i agree with david that there were some from a theatrical point perform view. i thought the guests were incredible. but the president's message and yes, his nod to the women, the democrats we see here is nice but it was discordant from the other 364 days of the year. you can say these things and talk about comedy which is the word he used, but that has to be

backed up by your actions and policies. nothing he's done as president preceding last night shows he means what he said last night. >> the speech sets the stage for. >> the state of the union speeches are usually meaningless. in donald trump's case, they're especially meaningless because even if he were to get any lift from last night's speech he would be sure to step on it this morning. it'll be tweets or it'll be insults or it'll be one self-inflicted mistake after another. that's what he does. i thought it was very interesting, though, and following up on the women applauding, say, yes, thank you, because you are responsible for the greatest revolution in the electing of women in the united states, i also thought it was interesting when he said we will never be socialist. i thought mike murphy really had great incite when he said, the only reason extreme candidates are being elected right now, the

only reason that we are more open to socialist candidates in the country now is because of you, because of you -- >> exactly. >> you are requiring american to look for extreme answers for the crisis that you donald trump had created. >> he mentioned the life issue last night, like abortion. it was a strong 60 seconds even though it came later in the speech. if you're pro-life, but what is not said is, is he's responsible for that legislation in virginia and new york because he got those people elected who would pass proabortion legislation and so in a sense he's responsible for it. >> right. >> i thought the rep partake between the women -- it was fun for him they sort of jumped the gun. they took the fact that 58% of the new jobs were created by women and they said, yeah, that's us and they got up and he

had the line and it was -- i thought that was -- >> it was worth watching again. still ahead on "morning joe," plenty of news organizations fact checked the president last night and so did the sheriff of a major american city. we'll explain why next on "morning joe." to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪

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hospitals that are so crowded you can't get in, increased crime and a depleted social safety net. tolerance for illegal immigration is not compassionate, it is actually very cruel. >> a legal border crossings have been declining for decades. in 2017, the number was at a near 50 year low. >> let's, let's, let's again -- let's just stop right there again, mika. they are at a 50 year low. you have to go back to richard nixon as president to find a time when border crossings were lower than they are right now. >> it's only increased in recent months as families try and come here, families with children and the president was also fact checked by the sheriff of el paso, texas.

>> i don't know who the sheriff is, i don't want to cross him. whatever he says, i'm with him or her. >> so this is what he was upset about. this claim. take a look. >> the border city of el paso, texas, used to have extremely high rates of violent crime. one of the highest in the entire country and considered one of our nation's most dangerous cities. now, immediately upon its building with a powerful barrier in place, el paso is one of the safest cities -- >> yeah. el paso sheriff richard wiles responded with this statement. it is sad to hear president trump state falsehoods about el paso, texas, in an attempt to justify the building of a 2,000 mile wall.

the facts are clear. while it is true that el paso is one of the safest cities in the nation, it has never been considered one of our nation's most dangerous cities and el paso was a safe city long before any wall was built. president trump continues to give a false narrative about a great city that truly represents what this great nation is all about and i think that's, you know -- i was saying it off the air but i'll say it on the air, how can anyone see this as a good speech? how can anyone see this as unifying when he is swuing out lies to the american people? lying. his data is wrong. his concepts are based on incorrect facts. this is an angry, racist platform that has been surrounded by sweet stories and world war ii veterans and, of course, you know, we all hate childhood cancer, of course, he can smatter is it with great stories that his staff helped put in there, but the bottom

line is his platform is based on hate and lies. bottom line. >> let's make it specific to illegal immigration, that there were parts of the speech that the american will agree with and support and some may actually support what he's saying about illegal immigration, but that part when he gets to that part he starts making these facts up. it's just built on lies and false assumptions. >> a lot of presidents have gone and done political speeches in state of the union addresses particularly on economic issues, so it ss it true that minority >> the sun has shined most of the days in my president -- it's meaningless. all presidents do that. politically speaking, i think people will watch this speech and i haven't seen any polls about it, i think most people will have a fairly positive reaction to the speech and a lot of applause lines but it was not

very deep on substance, right? they did what ronald reagan did and we all love those stories. >> sure. coming up on "morning joe," claire mccaskill has seen plenty of speeches in her time in office, what did she make of the president's address? and stacey abrams democratic response, she joins us next. you should be mad at tech that's unnecessarily complicated.

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did? >> i thought she was terrific. i loved the tone. she was tough but she was optimistic. i thought she was inspirational. i thought she really kind of -- the most important line i thought she delivered was when she really took him to task for not telling the truth. this is the problem this president has. he is now lied so often, he lies like other people brush their teeth, that it's very hard for people who are not big trump loyalists to take him seriously about almost anything and i thought she was very effective at the way she kind of framed the issue of the president being the liar in chief. >> if i could correct claire for a second -- >> you're not correcting claire. >> i don't think people brush their teeth that often. >> eww. >> even as i am very disappointed by the president's approach to our problems, i still don't want him to fail,

but we need him to tell the truth and to respect his duties and respect the extraordinary diversity that defines america. >> claire, you're somebody that knew first hand that we're sitting around here talking about all the lies, all the lies about all the numbers, about an immigrant invasion which is actually at a lower point at any time since 1971, about crime which actually native born american are almost twice as much -- twice as likely to commit violent crimes and also be incarcerated than illegal immigrants, talking about all these caravans coming. i remember talking to you about the campaign and you actually saying, you know what, joe, you can say what you want about that but out here on the campaign trail it's working and it's sticking with voters. >> yeah. he uses opt ticks, he used optics and the visual of the poor people trying to get to this country in a really

effective way during the campaign. the biggest lie which you have said over and over again, joe, and i hope people realize is about the drugs. this is an administration who is not filled the paid positions they have to actually hire port entry officers. we are not staffed at the ports of entry even at a fraction of their own staffing guidelines within the department of homeland security and that's where the drugs are coming in. they're not coming in between the ports. we have a record bust last week of opioids. that was at one of the points of entry and they haven't even prioritized hiring more officers for ports of entry. that's not even on their agenda. the thing about the speech i thought was really interesting is the train wreck that's coming because he signaled very clearly i will not compromise on the wall, so the house is not going to give him a wall, so here's what's going to happen. we'll be there again and the

reason mitch mcconnell -- he understands the resolution of disapproval. nancy pelosi can pass in the house a resolution of disapproval for the president declaring an emergency in order to get around the fact that he can't get the votes in congress. that then comes to the senate, mitch mcconnell can't block that resolution. it is a privileged resolution which means within 15 days everybody has to vote on it and then all of a sudden the republicans, who loved to wave their constitutions around, are going to be faced with a vote, are we really going to go on the record and go down in history as the senate that said it's okay for a president when he doesn't get his way on a matter of appropriations in congress, that he gets to do it any way. >> coming up, congresswoman tulsi gabbard is standing by. the hawaii democrat is running for president. she's next on "morning joe."

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our hostages have come home. nuclear testing has stopped and there has not been a missile launch in more than 15 months. if i had not been elected president of the united states, we would right now, in my opinion, be in a major war with north korea. much work remains to be done, but my relationship with kim jong-un is a good one. chairman kim and i will meet again on february 27th and 28th in vietnam. >> okay. david ignatius and casey hunt are back with joe, willie and me. joining the table democratic candidate tulsi gabbard of hawaii. welcome back to the show.

good to have you. we'll start on that. what was he talking about in terms of his relationship with the leader of north korea? >> well, first, let me say that i think there is no one in the country more than the people in hawaii who understand the seriousness of the threat coming from north korea. it was just over a year ago that we had a missile alert that came across the phones of everyone in hawaii saying a ballistic missile is headed your way take shelter. and we had families piling their kids into the car driving to a cave to try to find shelter. a father who was lowering his daughter down a manhole cover to try to keep her safe knowing that there were just minutes to live. so the seriousness of this threat from north korea, the seriousness of the reality that we are at a greater risk of a nuclear catastrophe today than ever before is very real. president trump i think should continue to pursue negotiations with north korea to denuclearize

the korean peninsula, however, he's also got to recognize that things like pulling out of the iran nuclear deal make it less likely that kim jong-un or north korea will take him at his word when he says that our deal will matter and that we will keep our word. >> the president says we don't have to worry about nuclear weapons in north korea any more, do you? >> not for a moment. not for a moment. this threat still exists and, in fact, the increasing tensions make it the reality that this threat is not just coming from north korea but the increasing tensions with russia and china, other nuclear armed countries in the world are also increasing this threat to a point where it is greater today than ever before. >> let's talk about syria. david? >> i wanted to ask the congresswoman, you brought a very interesting guest last night to the state of the union. >> yes. >> a prominent syrian politician who's part of the group we've

been aligning with in syria that's been keeping the peace there, i'm wondering what you told the syrian politician about what's ahead for them as the american troops begin to pull out? are they at risk of being slaughtered in those areas and what should we do about it? >> i heard from her their concerns about turkey's threats, knowing that if there is a pullout of u.s. troops overnight and it's too heavieasty then th kurds will be left to turkey's slaughter. she referred to what has already happened in places in syria to know what would lie ahead if there is not an opportunity for the kurds in the northern part of syria to broker some form of security agreement that will allow them to, frankly, protect their homes and protect their families going forward. she also said we never expected the united states to keep soldiers there forever. they always knew it would be a

temporary situation focused on fighting against isis. all she's saying is, give us the space to be able to make sure that we are able to secure ourselves before the united states pulls out all of our troops. >> did she ask you why you met with assad? >> no, she didn't, but we had a discussion about that and she recognized why i met with him and agreed with that meeting because she knows how important it is that we be willing to meet with adversaries or potential adversaries not only our friends. >> do you think assad is our enemy? >> assad is not the enemy of the united states because syria does not pose a direct threat to the united states. >> what do you say to democratic voters who watched you go over there and what do you say to military members who have been deployed repeatedly in syria pushing back against assad? >> people who have been deployed to syria have been there focused on their mission, which has been

to defeat isis. our troops have not gone to syria to wage yet another costly destructive regime change war and many troops i hear from express frustration at the fact that our country continues to wage senseless, costly regime change wars followed by nation building missions leading to situations like we see in afghanistan. so many examples of our troops being deployed, their lives put on the line without understanding what the clear mission or objective is and how that mission actually serves the security of the american people in the united states. >> i think a lot of american would agree with you there, but again going back to assad, assad is not an enemy, is he an adversary of the united states? >> we have to look to who poses a threat to the united states -- >> i understand that. there are a lot of people that don't pose a threat to the united states that consider

themselves an adversary. we consider russia to be an adversary. do you consider assad to be an adversary of the united states? >> when i look at whether it's syria or turkey or russia or china or other countries in the world, i look at what are their interests and are their interests counter to our interests? >> so what would you say he is to the united states? if you cannot say he's an adversary or an enemy, what is assad to the u.s.? what is the word? >> you can describe it however you want to describe it. >> i want to know how you describe it. >> whether it is syria or any of these other countries, we need to look at how their interests are counter to or aligned with ours. >> our assad's interests aligned with ours? >> what are his interests? >> he seems interested in the slaughter of his own people -- >> survival, exactly. >> he seems to be willing to go to great ends to do that. >> he uses weapons of mass destruction. >> we can talk about all these

things. my point here is -- >> is it important to talk about all these things? that he uses chemical weapons on his own people? >> of course, of course. it's important to talk about how our military is being used, what it is costing them, what is costing the american people and whether or not those missions, those objectives serve the security of the united states and the american people. >> i want to ask you just a final question, congresswoman. your comments sound to me very much like aligned with the president's speech, great powers do not fight endless wars and i'm wondering whether in your mind on the left of the democratic party, on the right of the republican party there is this shared feeling basically enough. time to get it over with. is that something where there's some alignment between you and the president? >> i think we have to be careful about making broad statements like that. nobody likes war.

nobody wants to be at war. there are threats that exist to the american people and we have a strong and capable and ready military that stands ready to keep our people safe. what needs to stop are these wars, whether it is the regime change wars or this new cold war, this escalation in this nuclear arms race that has now been exacerbated by trump pulling out of the inf treaty, these are where the american people have frustrations with what is this all for and to what end and how does this serve the american people's interests? the trillions of dollars we spend on these wars are coming out of the pockets of american taxpayers who have very real needs that need to be addressed here at home. >> do you think there should be any united states troops stationed in syria? >> i don't believe there should be. >> none at all? >> again, this goes back to how are we making these decisions? the many leaders in congress and

even leaders in the administration are saying, we should keep troops in syria to counter iran. there has been no war declared by congress against iran. there is no authorization legally for the united states to maintain troops in syria, so whether it is in syria or in other parts of the world we have to determine, are these missions worthy of our service members' sacrifice and do those missions serve the interest of the american people? >> you've skresed scepticism in the past that assad, in fact, used chemical weapons on his own people. do you believe he has used chemical weapons on his own people? >> i think it's possible. my scepticism in the past has been solely on saying, show us the evidence before you deploy u.s. troops into military action because i served in iraq and i understood what that cost came when the american people were lied to and presented false evidence where we started off a new war. >> do you think chemical weapons were used at all in syria?

>> absolutely. >> if it was not assad, who used them? >> chemical weapons were used not only by syria but other bad actors. >> people will watch this and wonder what's going on here, why you met with assad -- >> i'm interested in the truth. >> why it looks like you were very cozy with assad and why you've taken his side in this argument? >> that is a line -- that is a line that comes from political opponents or people who are not interested in actually confronting the truth about u.s. foreign policy, what it should be and the problems and the costs that have come to us because of this flawed and destructive policy. >> do you think assad is a good person? >> no, i don't. >> we're just trying to understand the context of the relationship. >> the context -- >> you can't put a word on it and most of us here at the table i think it's safe to say can. >> the focus and the context is, how are our troops being used to

serve the interests of the united states. >> uh-hum. >> let's move from assad as much as we would like to be the assad variety hour and talk about this for an hour or two. let's expand beyond that. let's ask you the question we ask all democrats. why are you running for president? >> because washington and this president is filled with self-serving interests and corporate greed and the american people are suffering. as a soldier i took an oath to serve our country and like all service members those values and those principles of putting service before self is what is motivating me, is what is driving me to run for president and to bring those values of service before self, of respect and integrity and honor back to the white house. >> as a former congressman, i always flinch when someone says,

your hometown paper -- >> oh, boy. >> i always hate that had line. when the sentence start that had way it never ended well. your hometown paper said you should focus on your job and talked about your campaign -- presidential campaign being in disarray. how would you respond to your hometown paper? >> i'm grateful to the people of hawaii who have elected me now over four elections in hawaii with nearly 80% of the vote and so their trust and their confidence in me and what i'm doing to serve them is something that i very much appreciate. >> who do you consider to be the front-runners in the democratic party right now? who are you going to have to beat? who are the candidates to beat if you're going to win? >> there's a lot of people offering to serve. i'm focused on my own campaign and delivering my own message to the american people and my offering to serve them. >> any idea why david duke came

out and supported you? >> no. i think -- what he stands for and his actions are despicable. i have rejected whatever claims he is making of so-called support and i don't believe that anyone should give him a moment of attention. >> vladimir putin, is he an adversary of the united states of america? >> yes. >> do you agree with the intel chiefs assessment that vladimir putin and russia interfered with american democracy in 2016 and will try to do it again in 2020? >> we have seen from those intel chiefs exactly how russia used certain tact ticks, but i think it's also important for us to look at some of the underlying problems here, one of which is the lack of security within our own elections infrastructure. we've seen other countries like north korea and china and others try to meddle within our systems. i've introduced a bill called the securing the american's elections act that would require

paper ballots or paper back-ups -- if you're using an electronic system to make it so that no one can try to manipulate those votes that are being cast and so people can have faith in our election systems. >> again, just to confirm, you agree with the intel chiefs that russia is trying to actively interfere in american democracy? >> yes. >> there have been reports that russian apparatus that interfered in 2016 is potentially trying to help your campaign. why do you -- >> cite those reports and their credibility. >> the russian propaganda machine. we did an analysis, actually -- >> i just want to point out -- i want to point out that that nbc news article has been debunked and disproven. >> by whom? >> because -- look, i would ask you to look at the credibility of the sources and the so-called experts -- >> i'm certainly not going to say that my colleagues did not do their due diligence, because i do know what our standards are

here. >> other journalists have debunked and proven the so-called experts cited in that article. it's actually very dangerous for articles like that and outlets like nbc to put out this information that seeks to bully people into saying, you can't come out and take the positions that i've taken of calling for an end to the cold war, calling for an end to this nuclear crisis that we're facing, otherwise you're going to be smeared as someone who is subject of russian propaganda. >> so you're essentially saying that you do not think that russians are helping you at all and that, in fact, any reporting to that effect is bullying american into not supporting you? >> what i'm saying is, the article that was put out has proven to be discredited. the experts have been proven to be discredited, the american people deserve the truth and they deserve to know exactly what's happening and to make sure that whether it's me or other candidates who are running for president are not

immediately attempted to be discredit simply because of the message we're delivering. >> since we're on the topic of russia and since it's 2019, i have to ask you, have you met with any russians over the past several years and over the past years. >> no. >> are you currently trying to build a building in moscow. >> no and no. >> very good. weekend. >> tulsi tower right in the middle of moscow. >> thank you so much. good luck out there. >> thank you. >> the word compassion factored into both the president's address last night and the democrats' response. >> tolerance for illegal immigration is not compassionate. it is actually very cruel. >> compassionate treatment at the border is not the same as open borders. >> we'll talk about those very different perspectives on immigration next on "morning joe." n immigration next on "morning joe. do count on... do count on... is boost®

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conservative things and highlighting things in which the democrats can be radical whether it be on abortion or the increasing rise of socialism. i don't expect a lot from the state of the union addresses. i don't expect a lot from trump. but he did good job on those scores. >> a couple here have suggested the same. peggy noonan said themecally. she has been a trump critic but she said as far as rolling out conservative things, he did a very good job last night. >> i thought again, he tried to talk about immigration in a way that isn't his normal old way of they're all rapists coming across but saying look, there are walls and the border patrol think these sections need more wall. we're going to put in more there to stop illegal immigration and want legal immigration. he ad libbed we want even more legal immigration than we've had. >> steven miller passed out at the white house. >> i thought that was a good way

to talk about immigration when stacey abrams would pick on the way he normally talks about it when he's reading from a teleprompter mostly, it was a pretty conservative message. >> maria, i'm suspecting you heard something different. >> a lot of us have discussed this had idea we can't have peace and legislation without war, if we have war and investigation. >> what was that? >> he was turning the fighting inwardly into congress. that was an unveiled threat to what happens if you actually want a functioning government. you better not look into my business. >> tim, i totally can see your view of the speech but did that not stand out to you? >> i mean. >> very honestly? >> it's the sort of thing that a president is supposed to leave to his attack dogs to say. he shouldn't say it especially because congress' job is to investigate the president. we put out editorial at the examiner after mitt romney's

op-ed and said do some actual investigations. there are some that we support. for instance, the businesses, the hotels both overseas and domestically, some of the stuff he's doing might be perfectly legal will you corrupt. that's a perfect place for congress to investigate. actually their job. i agree with you fully. >> i'll put aside that he actually chose to say that and the fact that he said that, put that aside. people in the white house helping him with his speech aren't they going to say hello, that looks exactly like richard nixon? it matches. >> no. >> tomorrow "morning joe" will put the two the bites together because you sound like nixon before he went down. >> maria, let me ask you a question. i've always thought and i know that you agree that when people look at hispanic voters, latina voters they try to paint them all with a broad brush. >> that's right. >> there are actually a lot of very conservative, socially

conservative catholic latina voters. and evangelical latina voters deeply offended by third trimester abortions. trump brought that issue up. that's one of the issues i've been quietly hearing from a lot of conservative friends who haven't raised the issue about trump around me because it doesn't well. they've been talking about what happened in new york and virginia. and they're not talking about like the photos. they're talking about northam's press conference. i've got to believe there's some residents there too with latina voters across america. would you warn the democratic party not to get too far out front on third trimester abortions and not to applaud like they did in the new york assembly after passing it? >> the challenge right now is most folks don't recognize the majority of latina voters including the catholic voters. i haven't seen the latest on

late term abortion, 68% of latina voters believe that the choice is between them and their god. when you start digging deeper, it's also even deeper among generational lines. i think the challenge right now is for us to have a healthy debate. this idea of repealing a woman's right to choose is a challenge. >> i'm talking about third trimester. >> we're talking about the states expanding permissive laws on abortion in the third trimester. horrific and 12%, 13%. >> from what i understand it's if the health of the mother is involved or if the fetus has some sort of disability. >> those are two very different things and a disability or deforty is the different from nonviable. a child born with no fingers is a severe deformity. >> i think that the challenge. >> virginia doesn't -- >> this is a great topic to launch in the morning.

i do think that the challenge of the trump conversation yesterday is when he was trying to sound a veil add attempt, whether it was abortion or when he was talking about immigration, you go down the list, there was tons of fact checking that was not true. >> exactly. >> we can all agree. >> we can all agree on that. that's a great way to end. alex coursen says some of the best lines on "morning joe" says to me 45 seconds and then i bring up late term abortion and he goes sure, let's debate late term abortion in 30 seconds. come back because we're late. we got to toss there. >> stephanie rhule picks up coverage right now. >> hi there, i'm stephanie rhule with a lot to cover this morning. starting with the state of dysunion. president trump's second address to congress was billed as one of unity. after quick mentions on infrastructure and criminal justice reform, the speech took a darker turn on immigration, abortion and condemnation of socialism. >> bor