toddid i jump the press rele when i mentioned your book? >> yeah, he is real up set. >> thank you all, that does it for us. hello, nicole. >> if this is what a show news day is, we're slow today. >> if it is thursday, with great power comes great responsibility. good evening, i'm chuck todd here in washington. we have a jam packed show today. we have an exclusive here onset and a lot to talk about tonight with her and others on this

show. we're also tracking a wild day of developments. and also the president, his administration, and his tax returns. he is lashing out and we have fire works involving a areaing and he is refusing to testify. and they are refusing to answer questions on an array of questions. also i will be joined later in the hour by the only latino running for president right now julian castro. jam packed show. let's start with the democratic party. they are trying to harness a shift in politics.

the 2020 debate about electability, they may seem like different fights in the democratic party, but they arguably all come back to the same struggle. hitting the old guard against their young rising scars. joining me now today is alexandria ocasio-cortez. some of these tensions, what is happening in virginia, what i we're seeing with the back and forth frankly with what you're trying to do with climate change, how much of this, do you think is generational or si

or idoelogical. >> i don't think the emergency around climate change, economic justice, is just a young people thing, but i believe that like all big movements, they're really accelerating the time lines to reach our goals. >> we don't have someone to say this is a fireable offense. this is such an important question. it is not just about who did what, but it is about how our leadership really deals with the things they have done. i think when we see a crisis of

confidence with some of the folks in virginia, it is the way they are handling these issues. it is are we using this as a moment to model what race looks like, and if you are squandering tha that. >> governor northam same i should stay in office. >> if that were true, he would have used this moment to do this and you might have saidly give you a chance to stay. >> with him, what i will say is that the degree of the photos, to that extent, in his specific

situation, i don't think there was a way out of it. in general if there was an elected official that was in some degree -- another person who proactively made a statement that said hey when i was 19 i had a mistaken halloween costume, here is what i learned about it. >> how you model claifr, and if you don't there is no room to lead, she lever a lied act anything, but she has not given us the fullest answer yet. what do you think she should do? >> i think there is who ways to

talk about it, and again we can use and still have an opportunity, i think here in this situation, i think there is still an opportunity to model the correct way to navigate what these waters look like. for example, i'm latina. and latino americans have an interesting identity. especially for me, my identity is the descendent of many different identities. i sam the descendent of spanish colonizers. that doesn't mean that i'm black or native. it means that i can use that, i can tell the story of my ancestors that doesn't mean that i am that. so i think in terms of how we

navigate that, i look forward to her modelling a process. >> has it shaken any concern of her being a nominee for the party? >> i think they all have time. >> what are you looking for when it comes to this? everyone that has announced running has endorsed a deal. let's be frank, you greeted a political movement, what do you look for in a presidential nominee this year. >> first, i don't think i created a political mooumt, i think i am part of one, but i think in terms of what i look

for. i think it is the understanding of this moment that we're in right now and the ability to articulate it. i don't think a 2020 nominee can afford to be bad on issues of race. i don't think they can afford to be bad on issues of economic justice either. >> when we talk about things like the role of the labor bloousmt. when it is wages or union jobs. that is what we're fighting for. >> so you said that on the issues of race, i think those you would assume that you could not get traction on that.

do you have to say you'll do it or is being aspiring to it in the future enough for you? >>. >> i think that we need commitments with teeth. i don't want to be placated. >> what is the definition. they love medicare for all, but they say it is not realistic. is that a nonstarter for you? >> for me i reject that outright. i reject the rational of saying adopting the same or similar insurance models is unrealistic. i reject that. i reject the idea that single payer is impossible. i reject the eyed that universal health care is possible.

when i talk about what i want in a 2020 candidate, i want a candidate that says we can do these things, we can be audacious. to overcome this movement we need to return to our fdr roots. >> one thing that fdr had, he said she has the great new deal, he said fdr had a massive majority when he went to push his deal through. you don't have a massive majority. you don't have majority at all on the other side of the capital. so how do you do it? >> so this is a big part of when you break down our strategy on the new deal. when you go back to our requests in the fall, we spoke about the need to draft a blue bring by 2020. it is so that by 2020 we can get

all of those chess pieces in order. we can get a majority in the house, the senate, we can capture the presidency and get things done. >> joe manchin, we used the word coal nine times on tuesday, and at the end of the day, chuck schumer he wants to find a 51 senators. >> i think when it comes to making the compromises it's about the landscape when we get there. there are some that i think are on the table if we have just 51, but i think some of those are off of the stable if we have 60. i can't speculate to what it would be for any variable makeup

in 2020, but we can start our organize nooigz and being as aggressive as possible. >> what is the best case for con servetive leaders, they see what happened in france and it seems like it impacts the lower to middle lower class more. that it will just trickle down to the working lass. >> it has in france because we allowed them to take over who bears the burden for carbon taxes. when we work as a progressive movement here, it needs to be lead by every day people, by workers, it needs to be lead by front line communities. if we don't do that that is what happens. and by the way, when you look at who is actually responsible for the majority of carbon emissi s

emissions, it is the top ten corporations in the world that are responsible for an enormous amount of our carbon output. it should not be middle class americans and every day people that bear that burden and it should not be a gas tax at the pump. it should be the corporations responsible for soiling -- rather for polluting our water and air. >> how do you envision vie fansing this. how do you invision vie fansing this? >> there is a couple thicks. one is that i think one way that the they try to mischaracterize what we're doing is like it is a massive government takeover. what we're trying to do, it's obviously not that because what we're trying to do is release the investments from the federal government to mobilize those

resources across the country. how do we get there? it can come across a wide range of things. tennessee valley authority style public programs, public private partnerships, it can work on a municipal level. it's not as though the federal government will wave and wand and say we're going to do it ourselves. secondly i think a big issue, too, is that we have to really address the fact that there has been a broken metaphor of the government as this one in and one out piggy bank that republicans like to say applies to democratic programs, but when it is their turn at the helm, they just cut whatever check they want to cut which is what they did with the tax cut bill, but the tax cut bill they lied about it. we know for every dollar you cut in taxes you get just a couple cents back. but for every dollar you invest

in infrastructure in building in jobs you get more than a dollar back. >> a little party politics question i have to ask you. you're not -- you rolled this out today with senator markie on this. you weren't on the climate change you said you were invited to be on it and you didn't. >> i do want to be on it, but -- >> then why aren't you? i'm sorry, but it makes sense to me to put you on it. >> absolutely. a lot of it frankly is timing and logistics. we announced our committee assignments, i didn't know if i would be asked or selected for the select committee at that time. so i wanted to maximize my standing committee assignments. so i was able to get on financial services which is one of a handful of exclusive committees, and i'm on the environmental sub committee of oversight, which is also a very

high profile committee. and so with that, i'm also on four sub committees, so when i got the call recently to get on the select committee, i didn't feel like i would be able to do it justice, but an amazing climate activist is on it. >> you don't feel like it is a snub at all? >> i truly do not. the speaker was gracious enough to invite me on it, i think for me it was -- >> would you have had to give up something to get on it? was that the deal? >> no. >> would you have to give up financial services to do this? >> i would have to give up doing my job well is how i feel, and i don't want to give that up. >> how committed is speaker pelosi to the green new deal. some people thought she was being dismissive, you did not take it as dismissive.

do you think that she is bought? ? >> for me what i introduced today was a resolution, not a bill. a resolution just has to pass the house and it is not a plan, it is the scope of the plan, i think in terms of the scope of the plan, i think we will get there. we launched with 60 cosponsors in the house. that is pretty crazy. we were able to launch on day one with 60 cosponsors. we have more rolling in and we may get a majority of the caucus in there. the president spent a lot of time on socialism and socialists. it was not too sure if if was a dig or enhancement. can you be a democratic

socialist and a capitalist? >> i think it depends on your interpretation. some socialists would say absolutely not, others would say you know i think it is possible. >> what are you? >> i think it is possible. >> do you think i'm a capitalist, but -- >> no, i don't say that, i would say that i believe in a democratic economy, but -- but the but is there. so if you're coming from elizabeth warren's perspective, she says i'm a capitalist, but we need hard rules for the game. if you say government should say out of x, what do they do better? >> i think there is a lot of consumer goods. and i think there is a way to delineate that just because you're in the private sector,

you can be a democratically social business. it is not about government takeover, it is about how much do workers have a say in your business. do you have workers on the board. do they enjoy the wealth they are creating? or is the ma chorty of the -- majority of the profits going somewhere else. it is not that one sector is socialists and one is not. it's a more nuanced understanding of how our economy should work. >> someone with an interesting perspective on this issue was senate senator claire mccaskill saying

it is easy to be a democratic socialist in a blue district like yours. how do you square that with the ability to find a majority? >> i square it with the direct evidence in 2016 that that is not true. no matter how you feel about senator bernie sanders he ran in 2016 as a democratic socialist, unapologet unapologetically. >> in primaries, among democrats, but those independents, right? >> and he wins indent. people have a mistaken idea that american picks is on one lynn yard line. 40% of the american public

identifies as independents, that doesn't mean we're? the middle, it means we hate that thing. some are freaking out about it but i'm coming from someone that says more competition is better not worse. >> four or five i think that is fine. i think that is -- it sounds like the two major parties you think don't everybody this well. >> i think that is totally fine to say a two party system in this time of gridlock is a difficult thing to navigate. and it is -- i think it is viable, it is a normal thing to say after years and years and decades of gridlock where they say maybe something here is frully wrong.

in terms of that as a conversation, i think that is a fine devgs to have. i think that comes down to states and city municipalitiemu. >> are you still feeling the bern? >> i love senator sanders. i think he is great. i think in terms of an endorsement, i usually say don't ask me until the day of a primary. i think the important thing that we immediate to understand is i hope we use this primary not as a horse race around personalities, but around our values. >> do you want it to be annize lod -- ideological party. >> i think that we should not solely based on what we think will be subject to scrutiny from the other party.

i don't think that is a way of doing anything. that leads to us governing from fear, casting votes from fear, and i don't think that we get anything done. i think the strongest position is to know our values and be committed to them. >> thank you for coming, i hope to see you again, soon. thank you. >> up next, a show down brewing between the acting attorney general. they are now refusing to testify unless they cooperate with his request. request. i think it will fit. want a performance car that actually fits your life? introducing the new 2019 ford edge st. capability meets power. in the first suv from the ford performance team.

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joining me is my panel now including michael steele and

maria teresa kumar. i am cost that -- do they want to strengthen here? part of the goal bringing up the issue of socialism, are the republicans going after a new york lawmaker, it's about trying to frame the 2020 election about republican conservatism. they saw what happened in 2018, it is about scaring those voters that drift into 2018 back to the right. >> it seems as if democrats want aoc's energy, they want her to influence younger voters, but

they want her to wait her turn. >> i think pelosi said today we love the enthusiasm and we want more, but that is a nice pc way of saying learn the ropes first before you get too far ahead of yourself and i think that is so interesting about this green new deal resolution. this is not policy and there is not a political path, but it is a broad scope and outline to move the pieces to get enough organizing power for sponsors behind this. i think doesn't want to be under pelosi's control, and what if they don't put everything she has in the actual bill, what is she willing to lose to be woke it? >> first of all, i felt like she was telling us the raw data

behind that. she was not hiding the fact that this was not a cut and dry decision. >> she has, from what i understand, vf weightsheavyweig. i think the beauty of the green new deal is what we're not paying attention to is she is pilding all of the coalitions to. women's choice, black lives matter, she bridging generations under this deal. >> they are not letting her go faster. >> so is she, i don't know, part of the problem they wanted to put on that committee had ties to the oil and gas, and she was like if we're going to have a serious frank conversation, how can we have people be part of

that situation. >> how familiar was that conversation that i just had, just putting instead of a democratic socialist. >> it will please neither of them, put her on weighs and means. it became a huge faux issue because people were projecting their goals on this newly elected member. >> go ahead, robert. >> you could also use a comparison to paul ryan in this sense when he came out with a blueprint for a bujd, he was trying to establish a pole on where the party should go.

trying to say i almost know this will not become law. you could see they were having that same kind of assent. >> and used by democrats to try to define republicans in a negative way. just the way they were trying to use aoc. >> and it forced republicans to get good at defending these ideas. candidates and their mothers talking about medicare. >> if we're going to get to the place she wants to get to on climate change, we're not going to do it using the current vocabulary. >> when we went through the medicare for all thing, which i think will be, at some point, we'll have this all right, who is really for medicare for all, and who isn't? and she basically said i'm not for the placaters.

and she didn't say they were placating, but she said they were placating. >> one of the things so special is that she is reminding us of where we were 100 years ago when we were trying to think awe additionly and we came up with a plan. she is like look at other developed countriecountries, wh now that we're richer as a country now, why aren't we trying to fix the system. let's not forget that middle class jobs means there is something functionally wrong with our system. if ewe for medicare for all, you better put a plan out. i think it means that they will

have to put out details and maybe they want to. we see how senator harris is getting hearing aid of this saying i would end private health insurance and everyone else is running away from that. >> and she just said i don't want people to run away from that idea. >> it is in the legislation, and they're seeing policy debates forming. you need to have something to back it up and you need to be authentic. it is not a fringe issue. they will smell it very quickly. >> there is a version of this that i would argue with abortion. some say i'm pro life, and some will dive in. >> yeah, two big problems that i

would argue is a slogan, not a policy, most people with employer provided mcnow like it and want to keep it. if you tell them they're going to lose it, they're not going to like that. the second thing, the elephant in the room, how do you pay for it. this is a massive expansion. no one would build the health care system the way it is starting for scratch, but trying to -- >> are you ready to be the party of obama care now? the republican party, i'm convinced, president trump, will he will depending obama care in 2020 against kamala harris. >> they will not defend it as a political idea, but it is law and they will talk about the popular aspects of it. even as they continue to hammer the individual mandate and

aspects that were proposed a few years ago. >> a just got a late r. how is matt whittaker going to appear before congress tomorrow,ly read you the letter again today. i heard from steven boyd that he will not issue a spn on or before february 8th. well, here is what he wrote, if you appear before the committee and you're prepared to answer questions from our members, there will be no need to issue the spn on or been the 8th. we are prepared to hear it during and after tomorrow's hearing. he is assuring him he won't --

>> an ainsurance does not mean it is written in stone, it is law. this is about a tug of war to make sure the acting attorney general will disclose different things about what he knows about the mueller investigation. other administration officials. democrats want answers and they could still have subpoena power sitting there. >> michael steele, i was confused by this, wait, i will come but if you say anything, i won't. >> he is just a really smart guy, you had him on the show talking about the potential for eventually impeaching the president. they want to look reasonable at every type step of the process. and keep the hammer in the background -- >> but you can drop it in the middle of a hearing, is that how this works? >> i think it would be ause

cased at that point. >> this will be a lot of court time. >> a lot of legal contributors. >> bob costa, i have to let you go, i'm not saying you're not deadline yourself, but i'm making you stay here for the rest of the hour. still ahead, a democratic mayor in a red state and a cabinet secretary under obama. we will ask julian castro how he will separate himself from a growing talented field. growing talented field choose glucerna, with slow release carbs to help manage blood sugar, and start making everyday progress. glucerna. got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today. and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team. the team? gooo team... order online pickup in an hour. and, now save big at the buy 2 get 1 free event.

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i am running for president because it is time for a new commitment. >> let's get right to the guy you just heard, now a democratic presidential candidate himself, julian castro. good to see you. >> thank you. good to be here. >> you were among the first people to say you believe justin fairfax's accuser. it is a mess in virginia. is the right call? >> what i can say is how i came

to my decision about calling on governor northam to resign. first of all i think that we ought to live in a country where everybody counts and everybody is respected. what i saw was a situation where you had somebody who did something when they were a medical school skutudent, not i high school. and in 1984, not '54, and he was caught. he didn't come out and say awant to apologize. i still think he should resign. i believe he wasn't be effective. with lieutenant governor fairfax, i read dr. tyson's statement, i believe her claim. he denied that. i hope there is a process to

understand. and there may not be, but what you see clearly and all of us feel in this country is that for so many years for generations, claims like this whether they happened in the workplace they were completely dismissed. just ignored a lot of times. many times the woman would be penalized for bringing it forward. thankfully we have moved completely in the other direction. >> is there a point go too far? >> i believe we should give the benefit of the doubt at least when the claim is made to have a process to understand what happened. they should not be dismissed, they should -- i asked this of congresswoman corte sfrks.

he said he would have a better search, she not wrong in this respect. every time he shows up it is the elephant in the room and you're forced to be asked about it. if reresigns he has to hide, and we sweep it under the rug and have another conversation about race. >> number one, we can accept an apolo apology, we can forgive, but it is different from someone serving in trust and authority. . secondly and this is what strikes me about dr. tyson's claim, if we sweep these under the rug we go backward. i think we are sending a message just like we are with governor northam that yeah, you know, this is often times it is

painful, but it was painful to the people that went through it, but, and here is the important part, beyond the individual case, it sets a standard that we want to live by of respect for individuals going forward. >> we are getting close to ten people in this race, officially. >> i thought we were at like a dozen. >> why you and not any of these other -- i say this, it is a talented field on paper, resumés, terrific resumes, a former vice president, you can have any array of candidate you're looking for. why do you think you're better than anyone else on this stage? >> this is a very talented field of people. i have executive experience i have a track record for getting

things done. you did have the intermediate -- you were calling me mr. mayor a second ago. >> you're running as a former mayor, i think you love that record, i assume. >> i do, and i also appreciated serving at cabinet secretary which is a federal executive position, which is what the president is. growing up in

test. test test.

welcome back, tonight i'm obsessed with all of the investigations of president trump, democrats are looking into his taxes, russian collusion, if he is under the influence of foreign powers, and the investigations by robert mueller and the southern district of new york. well, president trump is lashing out. republicans are worried about democrats are smug. my question is do democrats in congress actually have to find anything to be successful. take the example of benghazi. on one hand republicans went after hillary clinton on ben georg georgiay and raised doubts about her honest it.

on the other hand they didn't raise anything. and it lead to an investigation about her private e-mail servers. and they also rallied republicat about benghazi? success. on the other hand, clinton won the democratic nomination anyway. failure. on one hand, clinton was defeated by the republican nominee, donald trump. success. on the other hand, republicans wound up with a president who is systematically dismantling much of the old conservative movement and what it used to mean to be a republican. donald trump, failure. if you saw charlie wilson's war, you know the zen master story he tells at the end of the movie as the u.s. celebrates the victory of the freedom fighters over the soviet army. a decade later, al qaeda launched attacks.

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welcome back. more now on breaking news on the investigation into president trump and the acting attorney general's appearance on the hill tomorrow. looks like it is going to happen. panel is back. alexi, michael, maria, teresa.

a test was driven by debate in our own news meeting this morning. as the democrats gear up for all of these investigations, is there a point of overreach or could this back fire on them and what happens if they don't find anything and we went through this exercise. what about benghazi literally, went back and forth. did it work, did it not work. as a political exercise you could argue it worked, yet as an investigative exercise it was a total bust. >> yeah. i mean, i think democrats are approaching it with two minds. i think the political symbolism is a factor. they feel more embolden now that they control the house. again we were talking about this on break, they saw how the house intel committee in part because of devon nunez becoming a partisan political game, now they're using it to their advantage. they think president trump hasn't been held accountable for anything. we can work outside mueller and past that mueller investigation and do whatever we can to look into what we see fit. it does taint their image in the

president's mind, the way he is tweeting about it, calling it presidential harassment, in a way they may be overreaching, but they're going to do what they want woult going so far to impeach him. >> greatest piece of advice mitch mcconnell said that -- >> harassment for the democrats, they have to put legislative points on the board, but there's an appetite from the american people to better understand what is in the mueller investigation, and so the hearings are perfectly legitimate. however, and this is what pelosi understands, at the end of the day to get to the whoite house, they need the republican moderates, it doesn't sound like a witch hunt. >> what is the lesson. >> it is more like white water, investigation into a failed land deal in arkansas in the '70s led ultimately to the impeachment of bill clinton in the late '90s.

if you're democrats running the house, why leave any stone unturned. plus, you have a ton of new members, excited, enthus stsk who want to score points as a president, that will make them look good in their primary, what they're just as concerned about as the republicans are, so let them take their shots. let them look at whatever they want to look at. it can't hurt anything. >> what would be interesting is to do oversight hearings on cabinet members. you could see once you show how infectiously buddy buddy they were with private industry, that's not going to go down. >> if you want to be machiavelli, the more agencies you tie up with their own investigations, if you're worried about regulation cuts you don't like at epa, make their life miserable, make them come before congress every other week. >> my understanding is they're planning on doing that. i was told by hill aides, ben carson is someone they want in every couple months if not more

frequently. he is interesting, he has flown under the radar. >> those would be televised hearings. >> apparently from my understanding there's notions some of the contracts that have gone, they've gone to his family. but every single agency now is under that scrutiny and it is overwhelming how much they've been buddied up for personal interest and also to corporations. >> from the democratic point of view, they're fishing with dynamite. it is a target rich environment. why bother with a hook. >> why bother going into the water, i keep saying, there's a beached whale off the potomac they could use as foil to go into his current tax returns. >> and tax returns, cabinet members, family business, what have you, this is a good example how democrats are investigating beyond russia which makes the witch hunt argument harder for the president to keep saying. obviously it could lead back to potential ties to russia, but that's all beyond russia.

>> i want to preview the whitaker testimony. what do you think it is going to be tomorrow, i guess they're going to try to get, first of all, barr may be attorney general by end of the week. what's the point of the hearing at this point? >> i think one is basically to show the president that nancy pelosi, do you want peace and legislation or war and investigation. she's bringing on the war, and at the same time we're legislating. will the senate pass my legislation? more than likely not. let's be clear who's in charge of the house. >> i have trouble picturing what he can answer or would be willing to answer that will be that interesting. i feel as though the minute you get to something of interest to the committee members or the american people, he asserts privilege and everyone runs to the courthouse. >> maybe not.

that daily beast article that came out today that his team is worried, don't know what to expect type questions, seems like he's having trouble figuring out how he will answer things. thank you all. that's all for tonight. the beat starts now. >> i want to hold you over, we were watching the interview, i want to play it for your analysis. one part that jumped out to us. let's take a look. >> the president spent a lot of time using the s word. socialism and socialist. it was a not too subtle, i don't know whether it is a dig or enhancement, i'll let you decide. >> i was flattered. >> you said you're democratic socialist. >> uh-h