signup.axios.com. >> i'm yasmin vossoughian alongside annyman mohyeldin and louis burgdorf. "morning joe" starts right now. >> marty baron will tell you this is a super important point. when he meets with the journalists, i say it myself when i meet with journalists at the "washington post." marty says we are -- the administration may be at war with us; we are not at war with the administration. just do the work. just do the work. that's marty's saying. >> that is jeff bezos speaking last year. today, this morning, he is at war against the publisher of "the national enquirer," whom he

accuses of trying to blackmail hmm into shutting down an investigation of the tabloid's political motivations. good morning and welcome to "morning joe ou," it is friday, february 8th. we have mike barnicle, donny deuts deutsch, susan del percio and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. we have a lot to get to this morning, including the mueller probe. new court transcripts suggests paul manafort had a pardon on his mind. plus the acting a.g., matthew whitaker, will testify today after a public showdown with democrats, the newly empowered house majority. and the latest from virginia as a top republican official is now also involved in the controversy involving blackface. and the supreme court has ruled

that louisiana cannot enforce a lot that women's groups say would leave the state with only one doctor allowed to perform aworses. chief justice john roberts broke with the court's conservatives to place the law on hold while a louer court decision in favor of the measure is appealed. the 2014 law requires any doctor offering abortion services in louisiana to have admitting privileges at a hospital within 30 miles. a lot to get to. but we begin, joe, with amazon's ceo accusing the parent company of the "national enquirer" with extortion and blackmail. it feels, joe, like they messed with the wrong guy. >> it did but it also seems very familiar, not only to us but i think people ran against the

public primary. there was a connection between donald trump and the national enquirer. >> jeff bezos released e-mails yesterday claiming to show the company, a.m.i., threaten to release the information if he did not stop the inquiry that included explicit photos, exposing his extra marital affair. to from getting out, bezos says that a. >> i. demanded he stopped the waug which ho, behind the inquirer's initial reports ged wrots in part this: if in my

position i cannot stand up to this type of extortion, how many people can? of course i don't want personal photos published, but i also won't participate in their well-known practice of blackmale, political favors, political attacks and corruption. bezos adds, "i prefer to stand up, roll this log over and see what crawls out." an amazon spokesman confirmed the as you then 'tisity of the block post, they are the latest twist of a long simmering feud with president trump. the ceo is friends with the president. a spokesperson declined to comment to nbc news. >> let's bring in the senior reporter.

it was one of the most extraordinary reads, not only on the medium but on any web site this year. set it up for us. tell us exactly what's been going on. >> and what pieces fit together. >> first of all, you're right, it's an incredibly personal, long, detailed account from the jeff bezos, the founder of amazon, the wealthiest man in the world. it's a message to david pecker to, the entire tabloid industry me, doesn't mess with me. i won't be exploited, i wouldn't be blackmailed. for a long time in the week of his dip vors that sort of cast him not as the great innovative ceo that we usually think of him as but rather as sort of the subject of scandal and of of a

particularly sorted kind of extortion. now he's going to come forward for so many who do not feel they can stand up against the jeff bezoses that there's a political motivation here that is driven largely by president trump, who has a longstanding relationship with president trump and i think that is the thread that's going to be pulled out over the next few days and weeks. >> well, that is why it's so

fascinating, willie geist, you read again, the national inquirer doing fred's krut ig that a nationalin choirer story would run if we didn't chang our coverage. but so many other people were threatened as well. but this moves beyond donald trump. now suddenly. and so now suddenly it is the coverage of kshz, the continued cover of that murder that now obviously is getting under the saudi' skin and their ally now david pecker. >> jeff bezos wrote, quote, unavoidable that certain

powerful people will wrongly conclude i'm their enemy. prum is one of those people. also the post essentially about undoubted by unpopular in certain done at the. a guy who we've seen now, he put in his memo the list of what the photographs were and the texts said and of else. but the question dylan raised to me is the most interesting one. why has the national enquirer been so executive about a tech inventive? >> there's only one place to look, it comes down to donald trump. $137 million buys you a lot of bravery.

just, you the interesting thing about bezos that's nation nating here is is you kind of say, wow, what does he this image to-on-so kind of and he's playing this brilliant who has been called by mueller and has been called by investigators, that he's still playing this game. the or interesting thing to unpack here is that bezos has hired a security brown and it seems like the leading candidate behind this is sanchez he's, specifically roger stone. so you can't write this stuff. >> no, you can't.

the thing that surprised me, mike, when the first bezos story came out, was the arrogance. here's a guy that struck a deal with robert mueller. and then they spent what, $400,000 people on one them it looks it look like they're going after jeff bezos that 99% of americans that red the "american enchoirers" that didn't jump cover, that it accused general flynn of being a russian spite of spied. trump discovers russian spy inside white house and it but the arrogance of them to tn it do donald trump's bidding and

then to do the saudis' letter, i would think a lot of people in the southern district of new york might think it's exportion. the arrogance is really staggering. david pecker had cut a deal with the special prosecutor, and he's back in the patter's box basically on the fringe exin the paper that jeff bezos owns, runs. this is a staggering story and as donnie point out balance in your checking account, there's not much to fear. he's not going to get fired, he's not go i think we may soon

refer to a.m.i. as the former a.m.i. if they want to get into this sort of a match with jeff bezos. it's very clear to me who's going to win there. it's skrord that he got fwr a.m.i. at the and here are the picture we had and have thoo and that w why. as you said, jeff bezos is not around "the washington post" every day. by he lives in seattle and he does his day job and he leaves the journalism to the yournists. there was one time he came to an all-staff meeting and he was uking about the post around "new

york times" and other papers. he said there's a certain amount of bad ass necessary is and there is a certain amount of bad asses that makes us proud to work forria bro and while we're talking about, as you said, bad asses, i read it from kara swisher. >> she the bess but i love jeff wes and john done frrchl you are you fight bullies and jeff bezos, at least last night on twit are and social media and

everything that i read, to a lot of people, even though actually he did some humiliating things, he put it out there and said here i am, i screwed up and i'm not going to let you bully me over this. the guy is a hero to a lot of people and many pop like caria swisher said i don't love him in general and they go okay, yeah, i respect that guy. what a lesson for people dealing with crisis management. >> to make it even more pump and thises could directly donald trump's former attorney general. donald trump was obsessed with jeff bessos well before that. as bezos got richer and rich are, it would drive clump crazy. so the ultimate bully is really,

veal feeling this one. long before this matter started, he had a lot of bess i don't doing so what happened next? what -- what part of the story are you going to be following today? >> sure. well, in the media there's does he ami weight in? but the bigger picture, joe, is i want to go back with if you have already topped to catch and kill stories, to silence acuresers of donald trump. why are you still out there pursuing, like you said, a guy whose name made be a household game for us as the national enchoir are have on jeff about bezos. i wonder what does he jeff bezos maybe have on the national

enenchoirers. he's inviting all of us to sur sue that line of could the other things is you're right. bezos in the eyes of so many terrible people, he's all of a sudden, he's a hero. he's earned his journalism wing. so he has tuld off a master image. son of this is going to have a negative effect on amazon, on the wole star. the anything. >> i don't think anybody watching the show is surprised that the national enquirer is sleepy and that comes through n

in -- what's stunning is they were in a agreement with federal prosecutors and still carrying out this intent. >> when that happened, everyone kept talking about what is in pecker's safe. and i think the ongoing pattern of behavior will struck bon. >> a go but a good are the tore call question is who else? who else as the national enquirer blackmailed for benefit of donald trump? any house members? any stat members? any political have had, any editors?

we know we tried it with talk show hosts. that didn't work. who else at the national enquirer became of the who actually didn't have the means to. you back in the same way. >> that's a legitimate question. >> and it seems that no one would be -- if you're willing to go after jeffs about who else along the chain has he gone after? >> i'll add month more thing, and that is that you really get the sense of this sort of key stone top nature of doing business from trump to his friends, his stooges. to send jeff bezos an e-mail extorting him and blackmale mailing him in left to right, you've got to be incredibly stupid and air grant "the new

york times" reports on the most direct evidence to day connecting the prince to the keling of yamz sheerg. back in september of 2017, mbs cold a he should be returned by force. if neither of those methods worked, mbs said, quote, he would go africa showingy with a bullet. it's the same month that kashoggi began writing puts, it with treasury secretary knowledge of the television reports produced in early december. the fact is he haven't mentally denies it while sitting a well,

where do we keep going is what we do sfwrchl "the new york times" and other media outlets are going to continue to dig into the story and to exposemurder, this murder that was committed at the behest of mbs, apparently pecker was seeking saudi envestment nachblt who knows if they fle of i didn't want to point out one thing, just to people who are

watching. this is not how journalists operate. no yourn house and it is not a journalist being enterprise. it is historically a he is ta it is historically a he is tn e market. >> so this supposedly involves the kingdom of saudi arabia. doesn't it a.m.i. story bring us down to stormy daniels and all these other problems that trump brings to the table that have ended up in the legal field? >> that's actually a really good point. there's a sort of-low tenor to the various vonding you and joe

were say teg top of the show that ami and david pecker went after the wrong guy when this went after bezos. i think history will show and it "the washington post" should be credited with keeping this story front and center and jeff bezos and marty baron should be kret itted with pchblt is playing an even larger role in this sort of complex weng. >> joe, with this new piece of reporting of mbs saying he wanted to use a bull on --

bullet on ami, and intelligence communities concluded he did direct it. >> right. i seriously doubt he will. the question is will republican senators speak up? you had i'm wondering will lindsey graham change his tune again or will he continue to be opposed to the united states dealing with saudi arabia in any meaningful way as long as the crown principles is in the position he's often now they have to look at this u.s. intelligence that says khashoggi

said we're either going to kidnap him and drag him back, he's going to come back voluntarily or i'm going to put a bullet in heim. that's luring him in and then killing him. dil lan buyers thank you so much for request with us. i do want to follow up on something said, the entire "washington post" community has really stepped forward. i know gene can talk about this, but the publisher, fred ryan, he has kept it on the foregron foregront-fred hyatt, the editorial page, they've been drive this story nonstop. and for good reason. a "washington post" journalist was assassinated by an and and

there's no way we can continue operating by a saudi arabian government that can be run by this guy -- >> and the post can keep. >> still ahead on "morning joe," we will set the stage for today's expected clash between democrats on the house judiciary committee and acting torng matthew whitaker. a mmm of that committee democrat aaron swal will go including the role that michael cohen's secret audio recordings played. we'll talk to emily jane fox about her reporting on that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be right back. r bank starts with looking at something old,

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he's an outstanding person. i would say if he did testify, he'd do very well. he's an outstanding person, a very, very fine man. >> that was president trump yesterday, ahead of acting attorney general matthew whitaker's testimony before the house jackudiciary committee th morning. it will come after a day-long standoff over a subpoena due to concerns that whitaker would follow a pattern of invoking executive privilege. yesterday they issued a subpoena to compel whitaker's testimony if necessary. but nadler said if you appear before the committee tomorrow and you're prepared to answer question, i assure you there will be no need to issue a

subpoena. in light of that comment, it was responded that whitaker would be available without reporting. he said if you behave, if you answer questions, we won't subpoena you. he didn't say we won't subpoena you. am i right? >> that's right. nadler has certainly left a little bit of wiggle room in the ultimate written commitment he made to the justice department. d.o.j. officials are satisfied. it appears just from reading that statement that nadler may be leaving the door open. this committee hearing has the potential to go off the rails. it going to be the first blockbuster showdown between a top trump administration cabinet

official and the newly empowered house democrats. whitaker's ascent in the during. it has enraged the democratic base. mueller has a con of questions for him and inside the tennis headquarters headquarters said they may worry not only about question so they're blazing for it to potentially be a really unusual hearing. >> bets see, what happens if and when matthew whitaker trying to evoke before the commit this morning in about? would nadler could potentially respond by serving if he sti

still -- they could get a judge. my understanding is that part of the reason that nadler gave whitaker a heads up on the questions he wanted to ask whitaker, many of which involve whitaker's direct conversations with president trump, conversations that are often covered by executive privilege is so that if a court battle ense ensu ensues, nadler's lawyer said, we'll gave, we gave him time to preemptively invoke trif largely and told now po. and of course the way the white house fires back i've heard

complaints that the president is and emily jane fox into president trump's inauguration. emily, it's always good to see you. >> nice to see you. >> we learned that records were subpoenaed as they look into how the money was raised and spent, $107 million for that inauguration. what's the conversation? >> we knew when they seized information from cohen's apartment and hotel room that there were recordings seized. we knew some of those recordings were conversations between stephanie owens and she head of planning 18 events and doing so and esix-wab and work yoo, i

understand that it was walkoff detailing all of the concerns and some of her concerns included how the trump organization was profiting off the inauguration, the role of the adult children in that planning and potential mismanagement by the chairman of the inaugural committee and rick coats who is corroborating. >> so he surreptitiously records conversations and they're listening to these and now that raises the question what was going on at the maug rals. >> and now we know there are,

why all the investigations in the southern district to be so damaging to the president for years to come. but in this investigation in particular, it involves the trump family, it involves the trump organization profiting off of his new position and it involves the recall stages of t the. >> to emily's point which is is -- -- which someone said if somebody ends up getting killed, we can pin it on you. you can bring back cases that have even been settled civilly to money laundering and you will see, i believe, and what you can also do in rico is you is see assets. i think until those children are

wherever they go, they will be picking apark who showed up and try to undo 50 years of what our grandfathers fought for. this entire department will be rico'd and take the entire thing down. >> he knows where all the bodies were buried for the last 30 years. this could just ub. >> undoubtedly. it's also something that chairman nadler wanted to ask him about his conversations with

and the notes revealed damaging evidence about the president himself that came in filings last late. i product exact question, how is trump responding to southern did is he whitaker himself, to hobble it. it's possible that's one of issues with he may consider invoking executive privilege. >> so michael cohen's testimony has been delayed and postponed. if he hits in that room, will he ever tay anything i think that there is so much this.

-- there are a number of committees who are very interested in having hem appear, including one at least in public. but the dates are all up in the air. i think we are eagerly awaiting this and he is waiting to hear from us as well. >> he really wants to speak in front of coming dock. >> emily jane fox, good reporting. still ahead of lumies and now for at least within republican, it keeps getting worse in virginia, too. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming right back

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as we mentioned at the top of the hour, chief justice john roberts broke on a law that would have limited power in louisiana. the decision can be summed up this way -- i'm not going to do for you in a court decision what

you can do for yourself in the ballot box. at the time people were saying roberts was trying to defend the integrity of the supreme court and reputation of the supreme court. here it seems at least for now you have john roberts saying i understand there are a lot of people that want roe v. wade overturned now, light breath cavanaugh, but i'm not going to so quickly jump into that afraid. for at 50-wreer precedent that according to a kaiser foundation poll last year, 67% of americans don't want overturned. that would severely undermine, i'm sure many would believe, the credibility of the supreme court. >> that's absolutely right, joe. this is about the integrity. this particular case was a law written to prevent women from having abortions. it was written in such a way that it on allows i think one

doctor in the entire state to meet all the qualifications, which is absurd. it's working ielt way through the courts so this is just a stay. judge roberts suspect there's going to be a lot of legal challenges coming through, and i think he's trying to show this can be a balanced, independent institution, which is so important now ambassador we have a president who is looking to just defile all of our basic pillars of democracy. >> and it looks like at least again, at least for this stay, john roberts is filling the position that anthony kennedy did before and sandra day o'connor did before where, yes, they were looking at the law but they were also looking at where two-thirds of american were and also trying to fill fig out

exa -- figure out how far they can move the supreme court in one direction or another with severely damaging the reputation of that court. >> sandra day oconors, she was obviously political. john roberts is an institutionalist. he is the closest thing on a swing vote on the court right now. he doesn't just understand precedent, he values it. so the prj so with that precedent, there was no way that roberts was going to allow the conservative majority to just reverse it a couple of years later and say have at it, andy

abortion forces. so it's going to be very interested going forward but he is the closest thing to a swing vote now. >> frnl. how the president is using this issue to reand van jel call. >> how would you approach donald trump? how would you get in his face, if you believe that's the right floor in. >> how do you thing this to the. >> they go roy if it's a lie, you call out the lie. a lie, you call out the lie verage cons.

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. former president obama al tweeted yesterday "we lost two great americans today -- frank robinson and john dingell -- citizens who inspired me and so many others by leading and opening doors to others and leaving it all on the field. >> robinson's 586 career home

runs puts him at number ten on the alltime to-he was made the first african-american manager of a major league baseball club where robinson did double duty as a player. >> i don't see any real catches stars i'm concerned being the first black manager. i don't see any goals i have to achieve as being for the the press and i don't feel black people are going to put an awful lot of pressure on me because of that. they can do that but the pressure throughout me is i'm there. goi going, from zbrrnl john dingell,

who we're going to talk about in a minute, he was the longest self-ing member of congress who passed away also yesterday. charlie pierce twiced last ni t nightquote, felt the nazis want and after charlottesville he said if i have to fight them again, i will. and here's the response, "bad ass." >> a tough guy. up could be both john dingell and john robertson shared one trait, this were frrj they have to with major league baseball

patsing abo p. john dingell, a family seat in michigan that he held, his father held the seat before hmm. and ring sim that must have been some -- >> state champs. >> state champions in california. and a guy who fought through all sorts of discrimination. jackie robinson may be one of the ten best peoples but certainly wasn't easy being the first ball player. john dingell fought for every good cause you could so you knew him as a tough guy who was committed to the best things that you can do for america.

>> frank robinson and john dingell also instilled something. and, gene robinson, i was always amazed when i first got to congress in early 1995 republicans were in power and there was will the on one side the house chamber in the corner you had john dingell and you had the old wide ps, if and this were all still fanneding away permanent, two giants that, again, even in the minority, they didn't need a chairmanship to be powerful forc-- they didn

of famers. >> one thing about john dingell in recent years, he had a wickedly wicked twit ater feed. and whenever something happened, particularly in the trump era, he always had just a perfect acid comment. so that's how he -- one way he contributed to the political deba debate. >> and, joe, he was tweeting up until a couple of days saying, as a matter of fact, one way to look at his life is think of the span of it. he was on the floor as a page when -- he was with us to see an

african-american president elected all the way through dpt's first term. >> one more note on congressman dengel, he was undefeated in 30 elections just. coming up, the other investigation just started. they're winding up. former justice department official matthew mill are joins us with his new and alison. police, erik today, quote, a damage atent the congressman joins us ahead on "morning joe." " sometimes, the pressures of today's world can make it tough

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the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and on-time. (ringing) ( ♪ ) the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it. ♪ ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." it's friday, february 8th. along with joe, willie and me, we have donny deutsch still with us, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio, jonathan lemire, founding and director of the group former assistant united states attorney to the southern district of pork, mimi about, a paid school of law and msnbc

real analyst. now an msnbc justice and security analyst, mall u miller with with us as well. >> mike barnicle, talking about frank robinson. we'll get to mcic a level mrt. >> he's not on cross brrk -- but what meeking's, if know, he didn't. for people psh prrnl so can leave it places on the back of the chair ands did peer, leaving with the pressure on the jacket opinion $ sfwrchlt is people we understand to and it's like

we'll be back in the success sflushlg all right. i'm going to get to the big story of the morning. amazon's ceo accusing of parent company of the national enquirer off extortion and black male for claiming to show a.m.i. threatened to release the information if he did not stop an investigation into how the inquirer got exed lauren sanchez. bezos says that ami demanding he for reporting about the about the frrnl in a letter posted on

"mo number o f to this kind of extortion how many people can? of course i don't want personal photos published, but i also won't participate in their well-known practice of black male, political a ak zwrnks and roll this log over and see what crawls out. an and zahn spoks person con sird they're the listest twice frb and david pecker and president trump are friends. pecker has been accused of buying personal story about trum sfwrrjs -- a spokesperson

declined to comment and one of the most fascinating noshlgs that it's unavoidable that certain people will wrongly conclude that i am rr ennrchl, if the sense and unrelenting coverage of jamal khashoggi is undoubtedly unpopular in certain circles. >> that's why this story is so big. >> business and it what i was -- what i thisbe, if he suspects what he seems to success sflrks

and has he already the exposure of the saudi collusion may turn out to be as threatening to trump as that of russian collusion. we're just at the beginning stages of this but my good, it's marred looking for adults nar lf ut there trim helping to getbacker together with the saudis opinion frnks of course, pecker attacking and you're wondering, is it high it can pb or has it moved beyond that and is it about this saudi connection? >> what's striking is the degree of panic at ami. they're use to be having sfrrk

so he was desperately saying you've got to agree that there was no bris call prk they need that e-mail. so foolish in a sense legally for that to write. i think the panic at ami were sfrnchs and then to actually acquire his business. they might have been on to a saudi and/or a trump connection, both of which bezos goes out of his way to point to in his mmm and he had people help and vus. >> a lot of articles upgrade their ability to do. trump is a big fan of using hacked e-mails, right?

we know that. woo know that. >> and i would be der when we. >> in terms of a plan to discredit and destroy bezos, since he's been a big dwrrnl ephs fascinated by the arrogance of ami when they first released the first bezos story because. >> people that are inquiring the national markets don't give a damn about how j jshld he's not the usual that, from, from but

this is taking it a step further and i'm just wondering, what are federal sfrm who have done a deal with a.m.i., who have done a letter with pecker and so i think it looks like eggs portion, it smells like eximportance and, if is it a crime under the federal extortion statute? maybe. it's actually a very specific statute, you need to sort of get someone o to give up something of value is the key fry but i think there are some legal

a.m.i. has this distribution agreement with the southern district of new york. if it's even arguably a crime, then the southern district of new york is going to want to figure out exactly what a.m.i. did and more. they may already be looking at all of that. the southern district and oo am. rn -- why would they come to line when they're already under the microscope of so i think this is the beginning of the story, as always, not the end. >> last night "washington post" reporter manuel shared his discussions with jeff bess po

crash neated in on takening the personal kwrk. >> gavin debecker told us that he does he not believe that jeff bezos' phone was hacked. he thinks it possible that i might have gotten hold of be, we have to be extraordinary recall sfwshl that would obviouslyin pop frrjs zpnch. i think we all need to be tearful this. looking to the recklessness of a. as sfrks and strike a deal that

will keep them out of a criminal trial and possibly prison nnks and they don't go after and launch an attack, vicious attack doul as and chase fj frrnl they don't usually do that to tab down. one of the gate use and i completely agree we don't have lk for psh, from. i think the thats with stwrnks i don't know why they published

the original story on bezos, it doesn't make any sense. but once they're already in on the story, to give up the pictures that would be sensational, you don't do that for nothing. they had some reason, "the washington post" finding out but they thought, i assume incorrectly, that bezos would kill in exchange for them sitting on these pictures. the problem now for the southern district of new york, there are a lot of things that if you and i went out and did you can do it in a pay, but do it in a way that you won't prosecute. and the problem now is under their agreement with the southern district of new york for the pee gal so if the

southern dkt what were their motivations? they can't just stiff arm purities. they're resquierd to go in and every question. they have completely cooperate and pyeongchang and, mimi, it's not some great conspiracy per d period, they said they participated in the catch and kill of $150 from miss mcdougal, we know that they have worked in the past on behalf of donald trump. you as a prosecutor, what are the questions running through your mind now as you breed jeff bessos' memo on memo yesterday? >> absolutely. it a established back to cha new

england in to stop bezos from, posing something, from dp frshl the two key questions. republican, prshlgs judge policy over the investigation of the campaign fraud where sfrnl the southern district is looking at other subjects, other people who might have been involved in that. so a.m.i. is like an online going witness so they need to

really be truth but is there a whole separate ongoing conspiracy going on right in front of our face? >> and jonathan lemeyer. >> i think there's no question these sort of shadowy officials between on his radar. it can't be underscored enough the deep, deep ties between pb and we've beens can grrks tr -- >> i also think they did like glowing story on the crown

prince. >> no question. >> and there was this connection between trump and ksh i don't know what the word is, but they were in consort in some way. >> the mbs sort of goodwill tour of a year or so ago, the good will was part of that. >> interesting. >> even as this is all going down, the trump administration put down a statement promising deep tins the the crown prince we node is very tight with scared kushner. they're not prks it the be lunch frchl sfrnl even though that is

certainly what the government says. i think again as we've always said if you want to understand what donald trump does he, look to himself on, if. >> shane: that the sauce snrchls, 016, bagging about all the money the saudis had made for him and his company, just about how his son talked about most of the money they get, the get from the russians. i mean, the russians and the saudis have been funding the trump organization for years now to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars if you believe donald trump and his sons. >> joe, you and i have talked so much on the air and off the air. it's always follow the money with donald trump. "the washington post" story that just came out, about $400 million worth of all cash payments that donald trump made for real estate -- you have to understand real estate, nobody

pays cash. even donald trump used to call himself the king of debt. so you're going to see these moneyla money laundering stories and it's going to be saudi and russian money because donald trump could not borrow money from banks anymore. >> when he was running for president of the united states nobody in new york city would let him borrow money. you know, so this is -- >> donald trump also knows going forward, the only place he will ever be able to get money is outside this country in places like saudi arabia and from the russian oligarchs and you will also see deutsche bank coming forward. this is the could nduit. it's not hard to figure out. it was always about the bucks. it's russian bucks and saudi bucks. >> and he can say, susan, after this is over and he left the white house, hey, i stood with you when nobody else would stand

with you. again, you can't help but -- if the past is truly prologue for most presidents, can see see why he's doing this. my question to you is how do republicans react not only to this but how do they react to the news from the "new york times" that khashoggi was intercepted a year ago saying we're either going to get him back voluntarily, we're going to kidnap him and bring him back against his will or i'll put a bullet in his head, i'll kill him. >> the first question, they are pretty much divided and you see that. but when it comes from khashoggi and that bit of information from

the "new york times" now, i think we have seen the senate standing up to the president, especially on foreign policy. and i expect that we will continue to see that. by the way, just going back for a minute about donald trump and a.m.i. is i can't help but think that ted cruz, that expose they did on him, it kind of comes together again. is this just a campaign contribution? is this what the southern district could also be looking for? there are just so many different threads to pull apart here that i think donald trump's world and what he played in in that sleaze tabloid journalism is really going to show a lot more than we even know at this time. >> i want to come back to the saudis. how do they get the techs and the photos. >> i get personally a photo -- he doesn't have classified

information to anything, saying look at i think the saudis will turn out to be key. it's not clear that extortion is a crime. stealing the texts and photos is a climb. if saudi intelligence perpetrated a criminal act against bezos on behalf in which a.m.i. was involved in which trump or kushner had some knowledge or somehow it was on behalf of them that, is a genuine intelligence conspiracy with ties to conceivably the white house. >> mimi, before you go, an update on a story you wrote about recently. justice department officials confirm that it has launched an investigation into how federal government lawyers handle the case of a wealthy man having sex with underage girls. alex acosta now serves as

president trump's sakd live. he that jeffrey ep stone be ebb seed and he served almost 13 months? jail but was allowed to leave every day. one condition of the deal was that a much larger federal investigation into epstein and anyone who helped him would be dropped. the d.o.j. notified senator ben sass that its office of professional responsibility has now opened an investigation into allegations that department attorneys may have committed professional misconduct in the manner -- >> that seems like an understatement. >> an a criminal matter was resolved. the letter does he not mention acosta by name.

a labor department spokesperson said he remembered the case is closed, it's done, epstein has done his time and let's move on. >> first of all, thank you, mika, for continuing to focus on this important story. i think it's come to where it is because of the focus of different journalists on this story. you know, look, it's a good first at the where we. it's important. it's a good first step. i can't be as far as i know, opr doesn't really have any authority over him if there is wrong doing found. he can get reported to the bar. people want justice here. as i said in an article i wrote for nbc, so many red flags about

this. it was a slap on the wrist, was dropped as part of the plea is stunning to me. they need to get to the bottom of it. if reason is no so need to be able to make at least to congress and then conditioning can make them public and action needs to be taken in the courts, if anything. be been. >> there are or men here obviously involved. he shunting. th thisbut you have heard for years and people in new york in manhattan have heard for years about very powerful men and jeff

riff epstein committing statuary rape. and i know in 2014, early 2015, you know, there's a top reporter saying why doesn't this information come out? what's going on? so i understand, jeffrey, epstein has already pled and has done his time, if that's what you want to call it. but weren't, without mentioning any names, isn't it common knowledge in manhattan that he connected a lot of very powerful, rich men and just politically powerfully connected men with young women, some of them possibly underage. >> i'll tell you a personal story. i met jeffrey epstein at a business meeting once, a group of us were trying to buy new

york magazine. i never met the man before in my life. during the break he said what kind of girls do you like? i go wa do you and what i understood, nothing ever came of it, is that he would engage with powerful men, get the women unbeknownst to the men, and he would own them. i remember very personally be very particular apaq fromming even though jeffrey epstein can't be tried again i guess because of double jeopardy, what about other men who have reportedly, possibly committed statua

statuary. >> reporter: well, that's part of what so puzzling and shocking about the plea agreement with epstein is it seemed to agree they were going to sop investigating other people. i think if there was misconduct found, though, that's why this is a first step, not the end, then there is a possibility to say that play game we, the department of justice are going to go ahead -- within the realm of this or they wouldn't have agreed to specify that in the plea agreement. >> all right, mimi, thank you. and eric swalwell is standing boy and joins the conversation next. i just got my cashback match,

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acting attorney general matthew whitaker slated to testify before the house judiciary committee. this morning the democratic chairman of four committees released documents which they say show whitaker failed to return thousands of dollars meant to be distributed to the victims of an alleged scam for a company where whitaker was a board member. in a statement, the chairman, including judiciaries blast whitaker for not complying for their request for documents related to his work. joining us, democratic congressman eric swalwell of california. good to see you this morning. >> good morning. >> after some back and forth with the justice department where the acting attorney general threatened not to show up at your hearing today, the judiciary did come out yesterday, the justice department, saying he will be there. so what do you want to know from the acting attorney general this morning? >> this is about more than just one person testifying. this is a damage assessment of the rule of law in our country. it's just had a wrecking ball

taken to it for the last two years. we want to know if it's still standing. we want to see if the mueller investigation has had a freedom of movement to follow the evidence. we want to know why he has not recused himself, what he's passing back to donald trump about the investigation and as he alluded to earlier, with all of this sketchy stuff in his background, how did he end up in this job? because it doesn't really seem like if a proper vetting had occurred, that is the person that would be most qualified for the job. but it does seem the one thing that did qualify him was that he had opinions about the mueller investigation that aligned with his boss, donald trump. >> some wondered it, looks like william barr will be appointed

next week. why put whitaker through this now? >> he's a potential obstruction witness. again, it's so fishy how he got the job. it's fishy as to why he has not recused himself and that bizarre press conference two weeks ago where he just in an unsolicited way it seems just put out all this information about the mueller investigation, implying that it's about to wrap up. we want to know is that the wish of donald trump or is that the true direction of the mueller team? >> so, congressman, if you asked the acting attorney general this morning if the president of the united states has ever spoken to him and asked him about the contents of the -- what is going on in the mueller investigation, would you expect him to answer or invoke executive privilege?

if it's executive privilege, what do you do? >> he may invoke executive privilege but it does not cover potential crimes. i believe the president is asking him about the mueller investigation that that constitutes obstruction of justice and that's not covered by executive privilege. so he can expect we would press on that. if he refused to answer, there's other means through the court that we can seek an answer . >> the top line has been the idea of russian collusion and conspiracy but you said you want to folks on the financial dealings of the president before and after he took office. walk me through what that means and what role michael cohen will play in that as he looks like he's finally set to appear before the house at the end of the month. >> we want to know who did the russians work with during the last campaign. we're not sure if bob mueller is following the potential financial crimes with the trump

organization. the president has said that's a red line. the mandate appears fairly narrow. we feel we do have a responsibility knowing that the trump children have said trump money is coming in, trump made a lot of money while the real estate market was tanking and the president's deutsche bank was fined in 2017 $300 million for a multi-billion dollar russian laundering scheme. so we have reason to look. and i think the american people should know if the president is financially compromised. also, let's not assume that the president is faithful to russia. there are probably other countries where financial influence may be going on, saudi arabia for example, same issue. they have build him out in the past, they've bought his yachts, hotels, dozens of rooms in trump hotel during the inaugural weeks and the weeks after that. and of course we've looked the other way on the kashoggi

killing. as to michael cohen, this guy lived in donald trump's personal, political and professional world. he's willing to come clean now. that's going to give us real insight into the shadowy operations going on. >> we'll be watching that hearing? just a couple of congressman eric swalwell of company. thanks for your time. appreciate it. >> matt miller, you co-wrote a piece with joyce vance "the mueller investigation has sprouted, therein lies the jeopardy for trump." flesh that out for a, matt. >> there's obviously debate on whether the mueller probe will end. whatever happens to the mueller probe, one of the things that's become obvious over the past few months is bob mueller has spawn a number of other investigations. this new sdny investigation into the inaugural sprung then from the cohen case.

the cohen investigation was oo with new one is a grandchild. we've seen other cases referred to d.c. you've seen the roger stonement. if you're the president and you're looking at this, whatever his personal liability and i think it's gray, it's now clear there were actual admitted criminals surrounding him in all the organizations in which he's been involved. so while the mueller investigation may be coming to an end soon, these other investigations are probably going to be going on until the end of his term in office. that poses grave liability for him because these investigations have a way of spawning new investigations and because they cross poll enate. so i think the president for the

president is whether you're facing exposure on so many front, legal and political, how is it that you get out of that without any liability. and i think it very, very hard to see. >> do we saw the intel committee sharing transcripting. the and stay tuned for matthew whitaker's public todestimony today. that's right here on msnbc on "morning joe." we'll be right back. joe." we'll be right back. i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying [indistinct conversation]

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show was not your first time in "tonight show" studio. >> it was not the first time. as a matter of fact, it was a couple years ago i was in the studio standing on your mark right there where you do your monologue. it was bring your child to work day at nbc, and i'm pretty sure all the kids who came to work with their parents thought they got to meet jimmy fallon at the tonight show studio. so out came will liie geist who

they assume is the warmup act. i thought here's the story of my career. what a great story, right? i'm looking up, a lot of blank looks from the kids. i thought it was going pretty well and a kid raises his hand hand and said "when do we get to meet jimmy?" >> oh! >> the story of my life. when do we get to meet jimmy? >> how slick was it on a busy week for you, willie. you had your appearance on the "tonight show." the kids wanted to meet the host of "sunday today." they got their chance. and of course donnie and i can't wait to hear what's coming up on sunday today. >> a guy we all know and love on this show, the congratulate

bradley cooper is my guest this sunday. his movie "a star is born", which he directed and obviously stars in is nominated for eight oscars. the grammys are this sunday and he and lady gaga are nominated for four grammys for that movie "shall "shallow", it's the number one sou song on the sound track. we got to dig a little deeper than most interviews. we had a great conversation with just an all-time great the guy. >> do you have a cultive personality here? >> me? >> yeah. >> no, because you are always here to pop that balloon. >> it's hard to think of a guy who is nicer -- >> totally. >> and more giving of his time and more grounded and more real

than bradley cooper has been through the years. >> i think we met him about ten years ago when he came on this show for the first "hangover" mo movie and he's same guy as he was. he rolls in, he didn't comb his hair, didn't wear any make-up. >> he's the real deal. he walks around by himself, walks around the lowest west village. the same guy, just a good guy. >> and incredibly talented. >> willie, we'll see you on the "tonight show" tonight, on sunday and of course on "morning joe" on monday. >> every, single solitary morning. >> every morning. >> are we emoting a little too

much? >> it's friday, come on! >> one of facebook's early investors, author of the new book entitled "zucked," waking up to the facebook catastrophe. is that what it is, a catastrophe? >> it really is. you've never seen companies in the history of our lifetime that have built so much economic power and joined it to political power where they control the public square in every country in which they operate. they're not elected, there's no accountability. there's a lot of damage. we're at this point now where because of products like alexa with smart speakers and smart tvs and smart cars, because of artificial intelligence, it's about to get a lot worse. >> yup. >> and think about it this way, the tech companies are like chemical companies. they're causing toxic waste dumps on people's brains all

over and they're not paying the cost of cleaning them up. we have to make them pay that cost. >> is there -- hold on. a lot of companies base -- there's a lot of companies that are dependent on facebook. should they be looking at alternatives? where is this going? >> mika, that is exactly the problem. facebook is the greatest advertising platform ever created and they've used that essentially to harm the journalism industry, they've used it to harm music, and lots of content businesses and we're stuck. it's a really hard situation. that's why my goal is to change the incentives, to force their business model to change by making them liable for the consequences because we want to keep the good while making them pay the cost of the bad. it's not just facebook. this applies to google, this applies to all the companies that are big data companies. so we have to be really smart about this and really careful. in my book, it's a journey.

i'm basically jimmy stewart in "rear window." i've done tech 34 years. i didn't see it at first. like the jimmy stewart character in "rear window," i"rear windowe scene, pull on the thread and use that story to teach you everything you know and finish that story by telling you what i think everybody could do. believe it or not, we have a lot more power to fix this than we realize. >> facebook issued this statement in response to the book. we take criticism seriously. over the past two years we fundamentally changed how we operate to bitter protect the safety and security of people using facebook. the reality is roger mcnamee hasn't been involved with facebook for a decade. so they are not happy here. >> roger, the fact, you can read reporting from "new york times," "washington post," "wall street journal," other publications, and you see one example after another. >> exactly. >> of how people have tried,

tried, to bring to the attention of zuckerberg, sheryl sandberg, tried to bring to the attention the problem, and instead of sitting there and listening and trying to fix the problems, in some, some which caused threats to just the core of american democracy, in sheryl sandberg's case they got screamed at, got shouted down, and she said they, she didn't want to know the extent of russian involvement. it's been a shameful response from the leaders of facebook. >> and, joe, just last week we had, the examples, right? facebook and google trying to bypass apple's app store to put these products in that spy on people, including minors. right? no protection of children. the prior week we had facebook getting sued, because they actively encouraged little kids to buy more credit inside games. they ran up $1,000 bills on their parents' credit cards.

expelled propublica. one of the companiiecompanies, essentially the political publications, won't let them do the research. these guys are unrepentant. when you have that much power, the people have to step in and stop it. that's our job. i feel terrible i was involved in the early days and participated in it. i don't want to harm face, but i want them and google and instagram and everybody else to recognize you can't do things just because you think you're smarter than everybody else. >> to that point, roger, these industries, all of these big data companies were unregulated for so long and for the most part seem to still be unregulated because no one know what's to actually do with them. so they're coming up with their

own fixes in response to public outcry, but how do we hold them accountable and what if anything can be done on the legislative side to fix it? >> susan, here's the thing that really is important to think about. for 50 years, tech created nothing but great stuff. product that empowered us, made us better. right? no need to regulate them. all of the people who used the products loved them. these guys took advantage of that and snuck up on us. here's the beautiful thing. in the united states, there are two ways to solve this problem. the first one is to recognize that there are all of these external costs that they create. some related to the public health of children and adults, right? you see the bullying on instagram and all of that. then you've also got the issue of democracy. the impact there. issues of privacy and issues of competition. so you can use antitrust relative to the competitive things. you can use all kinds of protections of children. you can limit the ability to use certain kinds of data. i would ban the sale of

geographic location data by cell phone companies, but most importantly, we can let the courts take care of this issue of liability. make them liable, same way chemical companies are liable for spills, this is america. we're fig ter out. this is the part i like so much. congress is getting up to speed in a hurry, on both sides of the aisle. i'm super proud of our elected representatives, because like all of us, we were just caught off guard by this thing, but they're getting on top of it. >> roger, you're the jimmy stewart character in "rear window." wheel that chair to the window, look out and see raymond burr. >> i do. >> so is zuckerberg the raymond burr character but the basic question is, in your opinion, is facebook now presently, currently, today, a fundamentally dishonest and dangerous institution? >> super good question. what i would tell you here is

that the business model, raymond burr in this particular story, is the business model of all of these big companies. so google, facebook, all of their subsidiaries. it's this notion you'll use surveillance to spy on everybody and not doing it to make the products better, doing it to manipulate that to create profits. in this particular situation the thing so difficult and we have to keep our eye on they're not evil people. they're not bad people. but they believe in the mission that they're on as though it's the only thing that matters in the world, and it justifies literally anything. i don't know what the problem is with the board of directors. i don't know what the problem is with the parents of these people, but the reality is they're not getting people to take them aside and say, hang on, guys. you're the richest people on earth. you've achieved all your goals. it's time to sit there and remember that you're citizens of the world. you cannot go around hurting people and not have any price to pay. that's just wrong. >> so just curious.

do you have a facebook page or should i have a facebook page? >> hang on a sec. mika, i do. i want to sell a book to people who read facebook and instagram. i have to do advertisements on there to reach those people that's what's so weird about this thing. you cannot avoid it. right? there's so much good about facebook. i understand why people like it. i say, look, don't do your politic there's. don't get your news there. right? let's try to do the part with family and friends, right? but let's also look for other products we can use. i play a game of "frogger" against google. i try to avoid it. by the other products i can use instead. it's tricky. every once in a while i fall in the river and have to try again. my point is the book teaches you all the things you can do. >> roger, thank you so much. >> a pleasure to be on. >> and the book is "zucked." out now. mika, reminds me so much, how do you regulate people that are the

smartest people in the world? preem reminds me what we asked after 2008. the credit swaps, nobody new, impossible for the s.e.c. and the government to regulate what was going on on wall street until it blew up. i'm afraid that's what we're facing afacebook. and joe bezos, he says it was an attempt to blackmail and extort him. plus real oversight of the trump administration kicks into gear this morning as acting attorney general matthew whitaker becomes the first high-profile member of the trump administration to face the democratic-controlled house. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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it's really dangerous to demonize the media. it's dangerous to call the media low lives. it's dangerous to say they're the enemy of the people and marty barron would tell you, a super important point, he will always say, he meets with the newsroom, i say it myself when i meet with journalists at the "washington post," we -- marty says, we -- the administration may be at war with us. we are not at war with the administration. just do the work. just do the work. that's marty's phrase. [ applause ] >> all right. that is jeff bezos, amazon's ceo and owner of the "washington post" speaking last year. today, this morning, he is at war against the publisher of the "national enquirer" a close ally of the president he accuses of

trying to blackmail of the tabloid's political motivations. good morning. it is "morning joe" along with joe, willie and me we have mike barnic barnicle. donny deutsch is with us and susan del percio and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson and we have a lot to get to this morning, including the mueller probe. new court transcripts that paul manafort had a pardon on his mind, plus, the acting a.g., matthew whitaker testifies today after a public showdown with democrats. the newly empowered house majority, and the latest on the political turmoil in virginia as a top republican official is now also embroiled in the controversy involving blackface. also breaking last night, the supreme court has ruled that louisiana cannot enforce a law that women's groups say would leave the state with only one

doctor allowed to perform abortions. chief justice john roberts broke with the courts' conservatives to place the law on hold while a lower court decision in favor of the measure is appealed. the 2014 law requires any doctor offering abortion services in louisiana to have admitting privileges at a hospital within 30 miles. a lot to get to. we begin, joe, with amazon's ceo, accusing the parent company of the "national enquirer" of extortion and blackmail for allegedly threatening to pub lishg scandal oous photos and texts from him. feels they messed with the wrong guy. >> it did and feels very familiar to us and people that ran against donald trump. >> yeah. >> and in the republican primary. a connection between donald trump and the "national enkwishor enkwish

-- enquirer" from the start. and the arrogance that they continued this. after striking a deal with robert mueller is extraordinary. >> jeff bezos released documents yesterday with threatening to release the information if he did not stop the messages that included explicit photos, exposing his extramarital affair. nbc news has not independently reviewed the e-mails. to keep the information from getting out, bezos says ami demanded he stop the "washington post," which he owns, from reporting on the political motivations behind the "enquirer" initial reports about his relationship with lauren sanchez. in a letter posted on the blogging site medium, bezos writes in part, this if in my position i cannot stand up to this type of extortion, how many people can? of course, i don't want personal photos published, but i also

won't participate in their well-known practice of blackmail, political favors, political attacks and corruption. bezos adds, i prefer to stand up, roll this log over and see what crawls out. and amazon spokesman confirms the authenticity of the blog post. the the amazon ceos allegations are the latest twist in a long simmering feud with president trump. the ceo of ami david picker and president trump are friends and picker has. accused of buys personal stories about trump to keep them private. a spokesperson for ami declined to comment to nbc news. >> bring in now the senior media reporter forenbc news and msnbc dylan byers. dylan, wow. extraordinary post. i forget who it was, but somebody says suddenly my chances of getting a lot of traction from my five favorite "star trek" films on medium,

those chances went down. what a read on any website this year. set it up for us. tell us exactly what's been going on. >> and what pieces fit together. >> sure. well, first of all, you're right. it's an absolutely, incredibly personal, long, detailed account from jeff bezos, founder of amazon, the wealthiest man in the world and effectivity it is a message to david pecker, to the entire american tabloid industry, don't mess with me. i won't be exploited, i won't be blackmailed. i think for a long time in the wake of jeff bezos' divorce and the "national enquirer" report that sort of cast him not as the great innovative ceo that we usually think of him as, but rather as sort of the subject of scandal and a particularly sordid kind of scandal, now all of a sudden he's flipped the scrip and become hero

journalism, someone who will stand up against the blackmail and extortion that happened to so many people who do not feel they can come forward and stand up against the david peckers of the world. for me, the most interesting aspect of what jeff bezos wrote in that post is the insinuation, not the directation, just the insinuation that there's a political motivation here that is driven either by president trump, who has a long-standing relationship with david pecker, or by saudi arabia, which also has ties to david pecker. there's an insinuation from bezos of a political motivation. i they is the threat that's going to be pulled out over the course of the next few days and weebs. >> that's what's so fascinating, willie geist, that, you know, during the campaign you had, again, the "national enquirer" doing donald trump's bidding clearly. whether it was ted cruz or had

to do with other front-runners. mika and i, of course were threatened by the staff. the staff, the white house staff that a story would run if we didn't change our coverage. and so many others threatened as well, but this moves beyond donald trump. now suddenly that donald trump relationship has helped ami in their relationship with the saudis. so now suddenly it is a coverage of -- khashoggi, that they continued cover of that murder that now obviously is -- is getting under the saudis skin and their new ally david pecker. >> yeah. read that piece of the "post" so people get the context. in the media post jeff bezos wrote unavoidable people who experience "washington post" news coverage will wrongly conclude i'm their enemy. president trump is one of those

people obvious by his tweets. and unrelenting coverage of the murder of its columnist khashoggi is undoubtedly unpopular in certain circles. donny, take a step back and look at big picture. they came as a guy with unlimited resources to defend himself. give him credit for exposing himself. he put in his memo the list what the photographs were, what the texts said everything else, but the question dylan raised to me is the most interesting one. why has the "national enquirer" been so aggressive about a tech executive? yes, richest guy in the world, what's their incentive or motivation to go so hard against bezos? >> only one place to look. the relationship with donald trump. no other way to slice this. this buys you a lot of bravery, the money. joe, you touched on it. came after you and you did a judo move exposing it, that's what he's doing. >> right. >> the interesting thing about bezos that's fastcinating here,

you kind of say, wow. what does this do to his image? in a bizarre way this kind of, like, faceless monolithic amazon and jeff bezos, this kinds of, like, mysterious guy, makes it almost human. hey, he's just like you and me and playing this brilliantly, and it is stunning that even after pecker has been called by mueller and has been called by investigators, that he's still playing this game. the other interesting thing to unpack here is that bezos hire add security group to go after this and seems the leading candidate behind this is sanchez' brother, who, guess what? surprise, surprise, has relationships with a lot of trump allies, specifically roger stone. so you can't write this stuff. >> no. you really can't. the thing that surprised me, mike, when the first bezos story came out. it was the arrogance. here's a guy that struck a deal with robert mueller.

and then they spent, what? $400,000 on this one piece. they spent -- it looked like they spent more money than any piece, going after a guy, jeff bezos? that 99% of americans that read the "national enquirer" didn't care to read about. this reminded me of the "national enquirer" cover that accused donald trump's first national security adviser, general flynn, of being a russian spy. trump discovers russian spy inside white house, and it's general flynn. and we said at the time, oh! well, guess who's about to get fired? and, of course, flynn got fired. i think later that week. but the arrogance of them to continue to do donald trump's bidding, and now to do the saudis bidding, and this in the letter, i would guess a lot of lawyers around jeff bezos would think is extortion, and i think maybe some people in the

southern district of new york might think is extortion, the arrogance is really staggering. >> well, you know, you reference what, to me is one of the most amazing aspects of this story, in that david pecker had cut a deal with the special prosecutor and is back in the batter's box basically on the fringes of extortion, joe, as you just pointed out. gene, you are housed in the paper that jeff bezos owns, runs. he doesn't operate it every day. we all know that, but this is a staggering story, and as donny pointed out, when you have $800 billion in your checking account, there's not much to fear. because he's not going to get fired. he's not getting shamed. he is jeff bezos. >> yeah. he is jeff bezos, and i think we may soon refer to ami as the former ami, because i you know -- if they want to get into, well, they did want to get

into this sort of match with jeff bezos, it's very clear to me who's going to win this. it's extraordinary the way he published the e-mails that he got from ami, and they are, they certainly look extortionate to me. either you stop looking into us and our political motivations or we be pubbish the following things and he has this and has that, and he published all of that. there was, as you said, jeff bezos is not around the "washington post" every day. been there -- a bunch of times, but he lives in seattle, does his day job and leaves the journalism to the journalists. there was time he came to an all-staff meeting and he was talking about the "post." actually versus the "new york times" and other papers. he said, there's a certain amount of badassness about the "washington post" he really liked and he wanted to keep.

there is a certain amount of badassness about jeff bezos that makes us proud to work for him, because they did, as mika said, in the intro, i think they messed with the wrong guy, and they have found that out. >> still ahead on "morning joe," more on the saudi connection to all of this. new reporting shows just how badly the crown prince wanted jamal khashoggi gone. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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2017, mbs told a top aide if khashoggi could not be enticed back to saudi arabia, he should be returned by force and if neither of those methods worked, mbs said he would go after khashoggi "with a bullet." september 20717, same month that khashoggi began writing opinion columns critical of the kingdom in the "washington post." that's all according to current and former american and foreign officials with direct knowledge of the intelligence reports which were produced in early december. around the same time president trump told reuters "the fact is, you know, he vehemently denies it." and saying they're a very good ally. gene, where do we begin? >> well, we keep going is what we do. you know, and i think it is just -- it is so good that the "new york times" and the "washington post" and other media outlets will continue to

dig into the story and to expose this, you know, this murder. this murder that was committed at the behest of mbs, that the administration refuses to acknowledge, much less act on. and potential motivation for this attempted blackmail of jeff bezos, because apparently pecker was seeking saudi investment and had relationships there. who knows if they fell through, trump or around trump? who knows, but i think we'll find out. i did want to point out one thing just to people who are watching. this is not how journalists operate. no journalist, no journalist operates this way through blackmail. the nor"national enquirer" is

not -- it is an extortion racket and one that seems to be coming down. >> and this is up at the level of pertaining to, related to, part of the big circle involving the murder of a "washington post" journalist, and the kingdom of saudi arabia, but isn't this ami story, doesn't it bring us back, bring us down to stormy daniels and to all of these other problems that trump brings to the table that have ended up in the legal field? >> you know, that's actually a really good point. there's a sort of high level tenure to the various scandals surrounding the trump administration. you know, i think one point from the me about khashoggi specifically, you and joe said top of the show that ami and david pecker went after the wrong guy when they went after jeff bezos. i think what history will show after time, i think it's already shown it in many ways is that

saudi arabia went after the wrong guy when they went after jamal khashoggi, because he that relationship with the "washington post." and because the "washington post" did not back down, and the "washington post" should be credited with keeping this story front and center, and jeff bezos himself and marty barron credited with keeping the story front and center. day after day, like the report you just read, it's becoming a larger role in this complex web that ropes in ami, saudi arabia, and the trump administration. >> coming up on "morning joe," house democrats have been itching to start wielding their power in the house. we'll see that at play in about an hour from now when the acting attorney general testifies on capitol hill. we'll get a preview of the serious implications next on "morning joe."

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mr. president --. he's an outstanding person. i would say if he did testify he'd do very well. he's an outstanding person. a very, very fine man. >> that was president trump

yesterday, ahead of acting attorney general matthew whitaker's testimony before the house committee. this over a subpoena due to concerns from house democrats that whitaker would follow a pattern of trump administration officials invoking executive privilege. yesterday the judiciary committee authorize add subpoena to compel wilt kerr's testimony in necessary but chairman jerry nadler said in a public statement to whitaker, if you appear before the committee tomorrow and are prepared to respond to questions from our meshes, i assure you that there will be no need for the committee to issue a subpoena on or before february 8th. in light of that comment the just it department responded whitaker looks forward to his voluntary appearance. joining us nous, local reporter for the "daily beast" betsy woodruff with more preparation before whitaker's testimony. i want to make sure we clearly

understand what nadler said. he said, if you behave, if you answer questions, we won't subpoena you. he didn't say, we won't subpoena you. am i right? >> that's right. nadler certainly left wiggle room in the ultimate written commitment that he made to the justice department. now, doj officials say they are satisfied that nadler has made them confident that he won't serve a subpoena to whitaker while testifying later this morning, but it appears just from reading that statement that nadler may potentially leave the door open. this committee heari ining truls potential to go off the rails. the first blockbuster showdown between a top trump administration cabinet official and the newly empowered house congressional democrats. whitaker's ascent in the doj especially given his minimal recent experience in federal law enforcement is something that has enraged the democratic base. nad lehr a tler has a ton of qu

for him related to the probe and officials i spoke with with direct knowledge of whitaker's preparation said they've been worried not just about the questions whitaker may get about the mueller investigation but also the legal strategies that nadler might use to try to extract that information from him. so they're bracing for it to potentially be a really unusual hearing. >> so. >> betsy, what happens if and when matthew whitaker tries to invoke executive privilege before the committee this morning? >> what could happen is, if whitaker tries to invoke executive privilege, nadler could potentially respond by serving him this subpoena. if whitaker denies the subpoena and still refuses to answer his questions nadler could try to get a federal judge to enforce the subpoena that would involve potentially lengthy litigation and my understanding is that part of the reason that nadler gave whitaker heads up on the questions he wanted to ask whitaker, many of which involve whitaker's direct conversations

with president trump, conversations that are often covered by executive privilege, is so that if a court battle ensues, nadler's lawyers will be able to tell a federal judge, look, we gave whitaker plenty of heads up. told him exactly what we would be doing. we gave him time to preemptively invoke executive privilege and he chose not to. of course, the way the justice department fires back and folks have talked about this for days now, they say that's not the typical process. they say the typical process is supposed to take more time. what i expect to hear from democrats is that vociferous complaints that the justice department is slow walking and stonewalling them on this. coming up on "morning joe," peter jackson has directed some of the most visually captivating films in recent memory, and now he's done it again with his new film on world war i. how he makes us look at this 20th century conflict through a 21st century lens. "morning joe" is coming right back. after months of wearing only a tiger costume,

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welcome back. more now on the jeff bezos story we've been discussing. the amazon ceo accuses the publisher of the "national enquirer" of trying to blackmail him into spiking an investigation. we've got jonathan la mir, bill kristol, mimi roca and matthew miller joining in the conversation. bill kristol, your thoughts on this. >> the degree of panic at ami. they're used to being investigated and in legal squabbles. why that e-mail that bezos produces from ami, that was desperately saying you've got to agree there was no political motivation. not just, let's drop it all, agree to have non-disclosure agreement. that e-mail, foolish in a sense legally i think for that counsel to write. i think the panic at ami suggesting they were worried that bezos' investigators are

really on to something. not just the normal sleaze, if i can put it that way, of the "national enquirer" business. what that might have been on to a saudi and/or trump connection, bezos goes out of his way to point to in his post, carefully crafted. knows what he's doing, and had peopledvising him on that. a lot of articles upgraded there, their ability to do that and in the khashoggi case and other cases done it as a tool of their own intelligence services. trump is a big fan of using hacked e-mails, we know that. put all of these things together, and i really wonder whether we have a genuine scandal here with some connection of trump to saudis and pecker at ami in terms of conspiracy to get, to discredit bezos, to damage him, since he has been a big critic of trump and the saudis.

>> trump and, of course, the saudis. mimi, one of the most -- i was fascinated by the arrogance of ami and the "national enquirer" in david pecker when they first released the first bezos story, because it was so transparently a hit job for political reasons. i mean, people that are buying the "national enquirer" in supermarkets don't give a damn who jeff bezos is. he's nots beyonce and he's not the people that usually are on the front pages of that. they don't have stories about tech giants. so i thought that was arrogant, but this is taking it a step further, and i'm wondering, what are federal prosecutors thinking who have done a deal with ami, have done a deal with pecker, and here you have a letter that sure looks like extortion or blackmail to a lot of people. >> sure.

so, joe, i think, you know, it looks like extortion. it smells like extortion, and it is in the common sense that many people use and think of that word extortion, blackmail. is it a crime under the federal extortion statute? maybe. it's actually a very specific statute. you need to sort of get someone to give up something of value, is the key phrase. so is bezos giving up something of value in this agreement by being forced to by extortion? there's a good argument for it but there are legal hurdles, but we almost don't need to reach that question here with ami because of what you talked about. ami has a non-prosecution agreement with the southern district of new york. if it's even arguably a crime, then the southern district of new york is going to want to figure out what exactly ami did and why. so this isn't going to end here. they are now going to look at all of the questions that you're talking about. they may already be looking at

all of them. the southern district and fbi. they'll want to know what was it that panicked ami so much that even if they didn't commit a crime, why did they come so close to the line when they're already under the microscope of federal prosecutors? and saudi arabia link could be one. a trump link. i mean, there are a lot of reasons that are not innocuous and would be even bigger crime. this is the beginning of the story as always not the end. >> last night "washington post" reporter manuel rowig franzia shared discussions with jeff bezos security team, suspected the "national enquirer" might not only have been politically motivated but assisted by the government in obtaining the personal information on the billionaire ceo. describing a conversation with bezos lead investigators. >> gavin de becker told us he does not believe that jeff bezos' phone was hacked. he thinks it's possible that a

government entity might have gotten hold of his text messages. >> i think, though, at this point, matt miller, we have to be extraordinarily careful with allegations such as that. that would obviously be jumping a shark this early unless de becker and bezos have specific information. we all need to be careful there. i think we have enough information as it is. again, just looking to the recklessness of ami's activities. most people after they escape the colleges of the southern district of new york and strike a deal that will keep them out of a criminal trial and possibly prison, most keep their heads down. they don't go after and launch an attack and a vicious attack, spending hundreds and thousand

of dollars chasing people across the plains, they don't usually do that to take come to one's donald trump and one of the saudi government's greatest enemies. it's just staggering to me. >> yeah. i think that's right. and i completely agree that we don't have to look for unconfirmed information that would blow this into a scandal of titanic proportions and we already have a fairly massive scandal staring us right in the face. the question bill raised is the right one. ami is sitting on extremely explosive texts. i don't know why they published the original story, doesn't make sense. once already in the story to give up these pictures which would be obviously much more sensational, you don't do that for nothing. they obviously had a reason, the "washington post" finding out, they thought i assume incorrectly, thought bezos would kill in exchange for them sitting on these pictures. the problem now for the southern

district of new york, you know i agree with mimi's analysis. one of the things, a lot of things if you and i went out, commit a crime do it through attorneys and dress it up with veneer of legality you can accomplish the same objective, blackmail and extortion but in a way legally defensive enough you're not prosecuted. obviously that's what they thought here. under the cooperation with the southern district of new york for the previous case, for the cohen case, they have to go in and answer every question the southern district has. if the southern district wants to get into all of these questions that mimi raised, why were they doing this? were they talking with saudis? talking with the white house? what were their motivations? they can't stiff arm prosecutors the way they might in another case. they are required to go in and answer every question. not just having their previous agreement torn up. they have to completely cooperate and answer every question and explain exactly why they were doing this.

>> and it's not a great conspiracy theory to think american media works on behalf of president trump. they've admitted at much saying in the 2016 campaign they participated in the catch and kill of $150,000 from ms. mcdougal. we know it from michael cohen. they've worked in the past on behalf of donald trump. you as a prosecutor, what are the questions running through your mind as you read jeff bezos memo yesterday? >> absolutely. it's established fact at this point. close as we can get to that in this world, that they work on behalf, have worked on behalf of donald trump to achieve ends that are beneficial to trump. not just that they worked on his behalf but to help him, and so the question here, the main question is, why were you trying so hard to stop bezos from exposing something, from digging in more? and how did you get those texts? those are really the two key

questions. and, remember, as sort of continuing on matt's point about their obligations to cooperate with the southern district, judge pauley, who's the judge residing in this case over the investigation of the campaign finance fraud that, where cohen pled guilty, he essentially said in an order yesterday, this investigation is ongoing. the southern district is looking at other subjects, other people who might have been involved in that. so ami is, like, an ongoing witness. so they need to really be truthful, and the question now is, not just what they're going to do or help with respect to the campaign finance crimes, but is there a whole separate ongoing, some kind of conspiracy going on right in front of our face? >> well, and jonathan la mir, the questions that come to mind, like to know the questions that come to yours, whether or not robert mueller will care about this story? how will he look at it

especially with the saudi angle and sort of working with the saudis in some way? >> i think no question these sort of shadowing connections between foreign officials, foreign powers and the united states government will be on his radar. it can't be underscored enough the deep, deep ties between ami and donald trump both as a celebrity, then a candidate, now president. they made story after story go away with the catch and kill practice we've discussed. there are times almost like they were part of the campaign in terms of trying to keep things quiet including stormy daniels. >> i don't think they did like -- i think they did glowing stories on the crown prince. >> no question. >> there was a connection between trump and -- i don't know. i don't know what the word is, but they were in consort in some way. >> a year or so ago and i was part of that with glowing coverage. it should be noted even yesterday as this is going down the trump administration put out

a statement promising deep ties to the saudi kingdom. and to mbs themselves. a relationship the president is not willing to server. they bet big, much of their entire middle east strategy is about this close relationship we riyadh, in particular the crown prince, tight with jared kushner and they're not willing to give that away. the transactional relationship, making a lot of money off arms sales feel it's the kingpin in that region and they're not willing to threat go. >> donny deutsch, not arm sales and linchpin against iran although that's center what the government says. if you want to understand what donald trump does, look to his own pocketbook and the fact he bragged during the campaign that the saudis had given him hundreds of millions of dollars, that the saudis had bought hundreds of millions of dollars of his "toys," that he makes all of this money off of saudi arabia. this is 2016 while he was running for president.

bragging about all of the money the saudi hs made for him and his dcompany, just like the son talked about the money the russians made, most of the money they get they get from the russians. the russians and saudis have been funding the trump organization for years now, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, if you believe donald trump and his sons. >> joe, you and i talked so much on and off the air. it's always following donald trump. "washington post" came out, about $400 million worth of all cash payments donald trump made for real estate, you have to understand real estate, nobody pays cash. >> nobody. >> donald trump used to call himself the king of debt. so you're going to see these money laundering stories and it's gawk to be saudi money and russian money. up next, oscar winning director peter jackson with his stunning new documentary on world war i. that is next on "morning joe."

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documentary world war i, they shall not grow old. it applies new technology to century's old world war i footage in order to capture the day to take experience of its soldiers and reveals the reality of war for those on the front line. the results, as you see here, are astonishing. joining us now are the film's director and producer peter jackson. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> so everyone who's seen this movie has said it was extraordinary. anyone who has studied the horrors of world war i have only seen footage that's black and white and goes too quickly -- >> and removed. >> it removes you a few degrees. when did you get the idea to bring this -- this horrible chapter of the 20th century to life? >> the imperial war museum in the uk who have a huge archive

of original film, they asked me if i was interested in doing a documentary and their brief was basically it could be any -- it could be covering any angle it shows, but they wanted me to use the original footage in a new and original way, so i didn't quite know how i could use their footage in a way that i hadn't seen before because it's film that we've seen for decades in all sorts of dockus that have been on. with our computer technology, how it could actually do if we really tried to restore it to pristine condition and i didn't know the result, so but it was a question that i was thinking so we did and i was amazed and stunned at just how you can -- you can restore this film. a lot of what we see now is not

really -- it's damage that the film has suffered for 100 years. a lot of the work we did in restoring it is really just repairing 100 years' worth of damage. >> talk about the emotional impact that it had on you the first time you ran the tests. you slowed down the tape. you fixed the damage and added color to it and saw the faces and understood these were real men, these were real boys, they weren't just images racing across black and white film. >> each men prepared his own breakfast. bread and jam. 16 men to a loaf of bread. >> we were thinking about the technical stuff about sharpening it and getting rid of the grain and speed and we were consumed by that and i didn't really know what to expect, but when the results came through, i forgot that straightaway because what hits you is the humanity that you're seeing, that suddenly

these people that had been these spun up charlie chapman figures, suddenly they become real, real humans, their faces come alive. >> mr. jackson, i loved the voices that you used of people who had fought during the great war as well and one of the things that struck me is, while we're seeing these scenes of complete horror, so often they talk about the camaraderie they had with each other and the down time they had with each. >> the men appeared cheerful under the circumstances, happy as they could be, making the best of everything, you know, in true british fashion. >> and the intense bonds they formed with each other during that fight. there was an almost -- it's not joyful but there was a quality in their relationships with each other that was -- that was uplifting in some way. >> yes. i agree. we got hold of some incredible

archived audio recordings and we ended up with 200 interviews and some of the interviews are seven hours long, really in-depth. i guess -- to answer your question, it's interesting because we obviously from 100 years into the future, 100 years since this war, all we can view it now is as an incredible waste and the violence and misery and the suffering that we associate with the war, but it's interesting to listen to the people that were actually there because they can't -- they can't dwell on that. it's completely true. it was a miserable, violent, horrible time, but they're human beings and like any human beings that's not where they can go. they go to places of humor, of friendship and supporting each other. that was a surprise because you suddenly realize that you're

hearing the way that they were coping with it, not the way we see it now. it's pretty interesting. >> for our viewers, catty's talking about 250 interviews that were conducted by the bbc in the 1960s and you actually hear their voices throughout the film. mike barnicles in new york, peter, and has a question for you. >> peter, this is remarkable, remarkable work taking us back to over 100 years, to a war that's somewhat been overshadowed by world war ii and current events, vietnam and things like that. i had been reading the book about the battle of the some and on july 1st at that battle, 20,000 were killed in the first hour of that battle. people were dying, men were dying at an average of one every 4.4 seconds on that day. there were over 500,000

casualties and i'm wondering, as you progressed through this film, through rebuilding this war in effect on film, an instrument of pure emotion at one level, what happened to you as you immersed yourself in the enormous deaths that were involved in the battles that were involved? >> i have a very strange relationship with the first day of the some because my grandfather was there. he went over at zero hour at 7:30 and he was hit by german machine gunfire almost immediately and he was badly wounded. he goes back to the uk to be patched up and my grandmother's there and they haven't met, but he meets my grandmother in 1917. they get married which results in the birth of my father in 1920, which results in the birth of me. if that machine gun hadn't hit

my grandfather, i possibly wouldn't be here now having this conversation with you, so i have -- from a personal perspective, i've got a very strange association with the first day of the somm. >> what is it about adding color that does that transformation for us? why is it -- why do they become human when they get color? i still don't -- i know that it happens because i'm watching the movie and seeing it happen, you still don't understand why? >> it's just another thing that removes the history or the old -- it makes it feel far more contemporary. if you look at something that's black and white, your brain immediately tells you it's old, and it allows you to -- it's a buffer, i guess, like a filter between you and the events and once you do the restoration and you add the color, that filter goes and it suddenly becomes very, very immediate. >> all right. the new documentary, "they shall

not grow old" is in theaters now. peter jackson, thank you very much for being on and sharing how it all came together. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi, there. we have a lot to cover this morning. primed for battle. jeff bezos accuses the "national enquirer" of extortion and blackmail after he says they threaten to publicly release intimate photos unless he ended a private investigation of the enquirer. >> this is a racket, complete racket to either hold information or use information for other purposes. he's not easily pushed around in his regular life and he's not going to be pushed arb here. party of one, one week away from a deadline to avoid another government shut down and support for president trump's wall appears to be eroding even within his own party. this as