post" -- we, marty says, the administration may be at war with us, we are not at war with the administration. just do the work. just do the, that. >> good morning, and welcome to "a.m. joy." well, american media, inc., the company that publishes the "national enquirer" is back on federal prosecutors' radar after an extraordinary medium post by amazon founder and "washington post" owner jeff bezos. bezos is accusing the company of trying to extort him into giving a public statement about the tabloid's coverage of his extramarital affair in exchange for not publishing sexually explicit photos of him to back up his claims. bezos published emails that he says were from one of ami's lawyers suggesting that the text and pictures would not be published so long as bezos and his investigator released a statement, quote, affirming that they have no knowledge or basis for suggesting that ami's

coverage was politically motivated or influenced by political forces. it's raising questions about whether ami violated the terms. a non-prosecution agreement reached with federal prosecutors last year over a hush-money payment to help donald trump's prospects in the 2016 election. the agreement requires ami to commit to crimes -- to commit no crimes whatsoever for three years. if ami breaks the terms of the deal, it could be charged with campaign finance violations. federal prosecutors are now reviewing whether the company violated the agreement according to a person familiar with the investigation. ami's chief executive, david pecker, is a longtime friend. donald trump. adding -- aiding his campaign by burying stories during the 2016 campaign and publishing articles adverse to trump's opponents. trump himself has berated bezos on twitter, going after amazon and criticizing the "washington

post" coverage for months. he said this after bezos' divorce was announced last month -- >> how do you react to this -- >> jeff bezos's divorce and affairs? >> i wish him luck. i wish him luck. it's going to be a beauty. >> joining me is maya wiley, senior vp for social justice. george butler, professor at georgetown bar school. kurt bardella, "usa today" skribtor and former spokesperson for the house oversight committee. author of "it's even wars than you think. ""and author of "the plot to destroy democracy." i'm going to start with what was in the extraordinary post. anyone who read through it, basically, first of all, trying to blackmail the richest man in the world, like what is he -- what does he have to lose? he was like, publish the photos. let me tell you everything that's in japanethese photos or everything that you said. they describe what the photos are say and if you don't comply

and continue to be obedient basically forever and keep telling the story that our coverage of you was not political motivated, these details that i'm going to describe in detail, are going to come out. he publishes them in detail. could this what you saw be a crime, could it be ex-portion, and could that -- extortion, and could that violate the agreement ami has with the special prosecutor? >> absolutely. breaking this down, right, if there's -- if the federal crime is that you essentially threaten someone in exchange for a thing of value. >> right. >> the thing of value -- some lawyers will debate whether or not this crosses the line. >> yep. >> because we're so used to thing of value being property or money. >> yep. >> but reputation is a thing of value. >> right. >> and that's the issue here. and yes, and bezos i think was also clear -- if i don't draw the line, who can. >> that's right. >> because i am in a position to protect myself in ways that so

many others can't. i think going back to your point about the agreement is so significant because it is absolutely making the company vulnerable because they had three years, as long as they kept their nose clean. >> right. >> and they -- apparently this is such an embedded business practice. it is such an embedded business practice that they were unable to do it, and that's why we have people like ronan faro and others saying they did it to us, too. >> i was just going to go there. let me read the response from am mi, "american media believes it acted fervently in reporting on mr. bezos at the time of the allegations made, it was in good faith negotiations to resolve all matters with him. nonetheless, in light of the nature of the allegations published by mr. bezos, the board has determined it should promptly and thoroughly investigate the claims." paul butler, they're going to thoroughly investigate, but they apparently did this in writing. i mean, they -- they committed

their demands in writing, e-mailed them, hit send, to the richest man in the world. he's going to get fired -- hoe owns the company. now you -- he owns the company. now you have journalists, ronan farrow, who said, i and at least one other prominent journalist involved in breaking stories about the "national enquirer's" arrangement with trump, meaning the catch-and-kill arrangement, fielded similar "stop digging or we'll ruin you" emails from ami. did not engage as i do not cut deals with subjects of ongoing reportin repo reporting. he got a reply from the former a.p. editor who says, "we were warned explicitly by insiders," his name is ted beardis, ami hired investigators to dig into the backgrounds of a.p. journalists looking into the tabloid's efforts on behalf of trump. never saw evidence of this either way, and it didn't stopt our reporting.

this is a common business practice. if this is something they do on a regular basis, does this establish a pattern that could be deemed extortion? >> extortion, blackmail, threats, in the case of bezos giving what they were threatening to reveal, even revenge porn. if a school yard bully says to a kid, if you don't do my homework, i'm going to beat you up, or a mob boss says to a storeowner, i'm going to collect $1,000 a week or there's going to be trouble, that's extortion. at least the bully and the mob boss have the good sense not to do it in e-mail and text messages. and so yes, this is a violation of the non-prosecution agreement because ami was supposed to stay out of trouble for three years. apparently that was too much for them to do. they've tried in the past to hide behind the first amendment saying that they're a media organization. but the southern district probe has already exposed them as a criminal enterprise and as a

partisan organization. they've admitted in open court that they tried to help donald trump get elected by using campaign financing and violating that law. >> it's pretty amazing, kurt. this is a new normal in terms of politics being completely off the rails. almost like a dystopian novel or like a marvel comic version of -- of politics right now. jeff bezos in this medium piece which is called "no, thank you, mr. pecker," very in your face, he wrote, "it's unavoidable that powerful people experience "washington post" news coverage will wrongly concludes that i'm their enemy. president trump is one of these people. obviously for his -- by his many tweets. also the "post's" essential and unrelenting coverage of the murders of jamal khashoggi is undoubtedly unpopular in certain circl circles." that was a red flag, too. we know that ami, that david pecker, may have been in pursuit of some deals with the saudis

and money from saudi arabia. that was sort of a tell. this type of, you know, don't report x or we'll expose these photos that we got from the cloud from you or whatever, this is a new normal it seems in our politics. >> oh, blackmail, extortion -- and it shows that any of these like ami, they're not media or news outlets. that's not journalism. they're political action committees with a specific political agenda. they should be treated as such. the first amendment protections that we see traditional outlets have, they should not be privy to those. no journalistic entity would do that, they're not going to blackmail somebody, put it in writing, and go after the world's richest human being. this is something congress needs to look at, was there a nexus, communication between the trump administration, the trump white house, and ami as this bezos story unfolded. trump has tweeted repeatedly many, many attacks against bezos.

and he's revelled in any type of controversy he's come under like the clip where he says it's going to be beautiful. did he have any inside information? was he asking his good buddy, his good friend to go after one of his political enemies? and if so, the american people deserve to know that, and congress should investigate it. >> let's go to david kidd johnson on that. we know about the relationship, we know where the catch-and-kill agreements to either put out -- to bury stories about potential sexual affairs by donald trump and also that there were negative stories, nasty stories about his political enemies published in the "national enquirer." what is this relationship about? >> well, donald has long had other people investigated to try and so how get them to back off. he did it to me. and the whole model here is one of, as we've been discussing, extortion. of suppressing news. a lot of things -- i've written about donald trump in my biography, "the making of donald trump," they're not in the news for reasons that in some cases

have to do with his threatening news organizations, if they touched those stories, even though they're in the public record. and in the past, journalists who have committed extortion like this go to jail. harry fairington at the "national enquirer," the annenburg media centers today, he went to prison for extortion saying i'll keep this story out of the news if you pay me. and he died in prison. >> wow. it's -- almost sounds like a mob story. very weird. i want to go to malcolm on a little bit more about the how this sort of came about. we had jeff bezos says in his media post that he was sparing no expense having hired gavin debecker try to figure out where did the texts come from, and how the photos ended up in the hands of the "national enquirer." there are all sorts of strange stories about it. i interviewed manuel roy francia of the "washington post" on -- i

don't know if this was my interview or on "last word," but he was talking about that. take a listen. >> i would add one other thing. you mentioned hacking at the top of the show. gavin de becker told us he does not believe that jeff bezos' phone was hacked. he thinks it's possible that a government entity might have gotten hold of his text messages. >> that was intriguing because you -- over the course of this story unfolding, there have been names of other countries sort of thrown on the table, people have talked about maybe even, you know, the israeli mass ad getting them or a foreign entity or mi6 or something getting these -- the contents of jeff bezos' phone and handing it over somehow to the "national enquirer." what do you make of that? >> i'll tell you right off the bat, it is not the national security agency. it is not a u.s. government agency that would do this. we just don't have the -- we

have the capacity. we can do anything if it's electronic. but this story -- i've given this quite a bit of thought. there is a possibility that there was a foreign government who had foreign intelligence subcontractors like you recently heard about the project raven group that was in abu dhabi where i lived who used ex-nsa personnel, you have companies that operate out of israel who could come into the united states and do a special collection so to speak using the right software, the right techniques. but you know, the easiest way is to do, you know, what we used to call a black bag job, get a relative of the target, not jeff bezos, perhaps, you know, the young woman in question who was in the relationship and her brother, just to get near her and can social engineer her to turn on her airdrop function on her iphone or look at her phone for a minute and allow another group to gain access to that phone using sophisticated software. then that phone is essentially

theirs. whatever she receives from jeff bezos, they have. it is much more likely that it's a foreign group who have operated illicitly in the united states, but could it be subcontractors of the governor of saudi arabia or israel or another country? absolutely. >> what's intriguing is that you have this other thing happening, this weird, glossy tabloid, that was put out by ami that was praising the government of saudi arabia and praising the crown prince. there's that data point, and then there's the reported pro-trump leanings of the woman who woman who jeff bezos was in the affair with of her brother. does that tell you we should be looking in saudi arabia's direction? >> i think at this point with ami, you can rely on that it's going to have multiple data points of people who have animosity toward jeff bezos. they all came together like kismet.

and this operation was carried out in order to get that blackmail information to extort them. could it be saudi arabia? it's possible. the saudis put out an adverti advertisement where nay said literally they have drawn a red line in criticism of the leadership of saudi arabia with the murder of jamal khashoggi. putting a warning out to all media worldwide that they will take this seriously. if that's the way they're doing operations -- look, they're trilli trillionaires, they would spare no expense to damage somebody looking into their affairs. >> sorry we're out of time, maya, kurt, paul will be back. david, malcolm, thank you very much. really an intriguing story. coming up, if you were trump's acting attorney general and you're feeling super mighty proud about how you tried to bully congressional democrats, where might you go to celebrate? we'll tell you next. you next.

in your capacity as acting attorney general, have you ever been asked to approve any request or action to be taken by the special counsel? >> mr. chairman, i seeia your five minutes is up, and so -- [ laughter ] we -- i'm here voluntarily.

we have agreed to five-minute rounds. and -- >> that's a fine place to end the five-minute rule. >> wow. if you're trump's guy at the justice department, how do you celebrate owning the libs on the house judiciary committee? you go to trump hotel, of course. hours after acting attorney general matt whitaker's heated, combative, often dismissive testimony, he was spotted at trump's d.c. hotel. the one trump leases from the federal government that he also runs. whitaker's choice of dining venue won't do much, the more that his testimony did, to ease democratic concerns that he's little more than a hack sent in to protect donald trump from the mueller investigation. on friday whitaker spent hours repeatedly clashing with democrats who were probing his actions as attorney general. and while he did deny ever interfering in mueller's investigation or speaking with donald trump about his feelings about the probe, wlirk did not address -- whitaker did not address the skepticism that he voiced on cnn, twitter, and

op-eds which seems like an addition for team trump. he refused to answer whether he currently believes as trump does that the mueller probe is, quote, a witch hunt. >> there have been guilty police from flynn, gates, papadopoulos and roger stone and three companies. would you say the special counsel's investigation is a witch hunt? are you interfere seeing a witch hunt? >> congressman, as i've mentioned previously, the special counsel's investigation is ongoing. i think it would be inappropriate for me to -- >> you wouldn't oversee a witch hunt. you would stop a witch hunt, wouldn't you? >> congressman it would be inappropriate for me to talk about an ongoing investigation. >> maya and kurt are back with me. go anywhere you want, but the disrespect shown to the committee was one piece. people were saying unprecedented

the way he behaved. then going for a secelebratory dinner at the trump hotel which an emoluments question. the hotel even existed. >> the connection between the -- i want to make a link, please. >> please do. it's very important. put your five minutes are up -- i mean, what was this? >> rude, inappropriate, and demonstrating why you need a confirmation hearing from someone who's going to be an acting attorney general. you should not never able to behave like that in a group that -- >> we did have a supreme court scream and cry at the committee and get confirmed. >> unfortunately there's a pattern here. >> yeah. >> but the connection between these two things is remember that whitaker has the ability to interfere with the southern district of new york's investigation of bezos. we haven't -- these stories

haven't come together quite the same way because they were breaking around the same time. remember that he is, whitaker is asked the question about whether he has interfewer efeared in -- interfered in the sdny's investigation into michael cohen. he refuses to answer the question. we know the investigation exists. you can't say i can't confirm or deny the existence of an investigation which is true -- which is true. but fli case it's public records, there are public court filings. there's flow question there's investigations. you can answer that question. sectly, secondly, he has the ability, he's not out of the job yet. we know that sdny is going to not just reopen -- not just the issue of whether or not to prosecute ami for the campaign finance crimes. >> right. >> now the question is what is ami doing in its business

practices around extortion, and whose benefit, whose benefit? right now everything we know about ami is everything they've done is to benefit donald trump. >> donald trump. >> whitaker, who literally thanks to sam clovis, becomes a cnn legal analyst in order to get the attention of the trump administration for a job, and in august, 2017, calls the mueller probe the mueller lynch mob. and refuses to do even what william barr was willing to do which is to say this is not a witch hunt, there are real questions now. >> he -- even if he doesn't interfere with the mueller probe, he could interfere with the sdny probe of ami? goodness. >> now do i think he will? it would be very stupid. and i think the way to hear that his testimony and going over to the hotel after is he was -- it was a job interview.

it was an interview for his next job. >> yeah. >> i just say that to see this is the depth of concern we should have as a country about how our institutions of government are -- >> are being twisted. paul butler, there is okay, it gets even scarier it turns out. that's the point, right? they're acting as if they're just in a movie, a tv show, that none of the rule of law or the patterns of behavior or the morets that normally, you know, comport or government matter. but there are substantive questions like maya raised of whether they could do real interference. this guy is on record. he wrote an op-ed saying essentially that the mueller probe is illegitimate. auditioned for the job with all these different data points, got himself on cnn to maya's point, so he could show himself to donald trump and say, look at me, i -- i will own the libs for you. goes on tv, does a performance. and then goes to trump -- trump's hotel to celebrate. this is a lot. >> it's a lot. and again, the question was,

matt whitaker, you called the russian investigation a lynch mob. you said it could reach the level of a witch hunt. now that you're attorney general, has anything happened that made you change your mind about it being a witch hunt. and he refused to answer that question. he wasn't only insulting the committee, he was insulting the thousands of justice department employees who would not be involved in a witch hunt -- especially one that led to more than 30 prosecutions. but then with regard to whether he's talked to donald trump about the russian investigation, he said no. joy, sometimes the american people have to call out a liar. we should not believe whitaker because, one, his answers were shifty and evasive. two, even as acting attorney general, he's the subject of an fbi investigation reportedly about lies he told about a company that he was involved in that's been fined millions of dollars.

and as maya indicated, the only reason he's a.g. now is because of his critique of the mueller investigation. so the question is, can we imagine a conversation between whitaker and trump that goes like, yo, man, this is just between you and i. we want to talk about the russian investigation and mueller. but on the down low. if anybody asks, this never happened. given what we know about the character and the records of both trump and whitaker, that kind of conversation is not only possible, it's probably happened many times. >> yeah, of course, i don't know if this is the company you were talking about, paul, but the -- there's a nonprofit. it's weird, obscure, obscure nonprofit that whitaker was associated with that was funded by undisclosed funders. all the questions about him. kurt, you worked on the staff of the house oversight committee on the republican side. give us sort of the -- the take on what staff must be thinking right now about what to do about matthew whitaker.

he was unresponsive in questioning. you did have the chairman of the judiciary committee say we want to bring you back. but to what end? like what could -- what could staff be thinking could be done by members of congress now? >> you know, i've always found, joy, that you learn almost as much from what witnesses are willing to tell you and not tell you. and what they don't tell you really serves as a guidance missile for investigators to go, oh, there's something there. if you have nothing to hide, you're willing to talk. if you're being so shifty and you're obfuscating and avoiding direct yes and no questions as whitaker did all afternoon yesterday, that tells investigators this is where we need to focus our attention. this is where we need to look at documents and emails and talk to other people because now they have whitaker on record saying yes or no certain things. they are going to cross reference that. they're going to examine that. they're going to go -- every time they have an investigation, every time they talk to a new witness, get a new document, e-mail, they're good to cross check that with what whitaker said under oath or didn't say under oath, and bring him back and say, you know, it's

interesting, maybe we'll ask you why did you say this on this day, and this document says something completely different. he's going to be held accountable. >> i bet he won't be celebrating at trump hotel after that if he gets called with that kind of thing. thank you guys very much. appreciate it. wow. coming up, the latest out of virginia. virginia shaquem get in here. take your razor, yup. alright, up and down, never side to side, shaquem. you got it? come on, get back. quem, you a second behind your brother, stay focused. can't nobody beat you, can't nobody beat you. hard work baby, it gonna pay off. you got this. with the one hundred and forty-first pick, the seattle seahawks select.

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during business hours. the central tenet of donald trump's candidacy and his presidency has been this -- undocumented immigrants are bad, and i, donald trump, will stop them. but a new piece in the "washington post" highlights the undocumented workers who spent years, literally, building the trump empire as we know it. the "post" interviewed 16 men and women from a town in costa rica where scores of residents worked at trump's golf club in bet manipulate -- in bedminster, new jersey. they said they were undocumented and their managers knew it. we'll have more on that story tomorrow. coming up, the grammy-nominated hip-hop artist detained by ice right after he criticized trump's immigration policies. stay with us. icized trump's immn policies stay with us i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying

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i cannot stand by silently while the lieutenant governor is facing multiple credible allegations of sexual assault. i believe these women. he needs to resign immediately. should the lieutenant governor fail to do so, on monday i plan to introduce articles of impeachment on lieutenant governor justin fairfax. >> it has been a chaotic week in

virginia politics to say the least. last night a second woman came forward to accuse lieutenant governor justin fairfax of sexual assault. the woman alleged that fairfax raped her when they were both students at duke university in 2002. fairfax denied the allegations and rejected call from his fellow virginia democrats and 2020 candidates that he resign. fairfax said, quote, it is obvious that a vicious and coordinated smear campaign is being orchestrated against me. i will not resign. this morning, a source close to fairfax says that he's meeting with his family and team today and will have a response very soon. fairfax's accusers said they decided to come forward because fairfax as lieutenant governor would succeed governor ralph northam if northam were to resign over the revelation that he wore blackface in the 1980s. northam has also refused to step down. as has the third in the state's line of succession, attorney general mark herring who said on wednesday that he had also dressed in blackface in college. joining me from richmond is nbc

news reporter mike viqueira. and in d.c., jason johnson, politics editor for theroot.com. to you first, mike. what is the lay of the land now in virginia? you have three democrats at the top of the line of succession there. >> reporter: yeah. >> and now it is the lieutenant governor who is the focus of calls to resign. what is going on down there? >> reporter: i mean, you're absolutely right, joy. it's been a tumultuous week to say the least. i was here last weekend less than 24 hours after this story broke. everybody thought that ralph northam -- not just days were numbered but hours were numbered. he has obviously survived. we understand from our reporting that he had a staff meeting yesterday. top staff gathered, and he said he will not resign. obviously the situation has changed dramatically. now the person who serves under him as lieutenant governor, justin fairfax, under the microscope now again. late breaking on a friday night.

the state house is deserted. it is saturday. it's been a week of reporters jamming the hallway. a week of being besieged by protesters, media, had and not insignificantly a call by democrats, justin fairfax, escalating calls for him to step down. quiet in richmond awaiting his next move. you reported that yesterday in the wake of the recent allegations he said he wants an investigation. he says these are smear tactics. and he vowed to conclude his statement, he will not resign. i went by a home listed as his address near richmond, the sprawling campus of richmond university. shades drawn, no activity there on the street, all quiet. unclear exactly what's happening, as you report, huddled with his family today. everybody awaiting what the next step in this ongoing drama in richmond is going to be. joy? >> you know, it is pretty extraordinary. i think a week ago few people would have suspected that the person who seems most in jeopardy of being forced out

would be the lieutenant governor rather than the governor. now in terms of those calling on the lieutenant governor to resign, justin fairfax to resign, presidential candidates cory booker, elizabeth warren, kamala harris, kerstin gillibrand, senator tim kaine, current senator of virginia, the virginia house democrats, virginia senate democrats, legislative black caucus and former governor terry mcauliffe. you also had mark warner and bobby scott saying he should resign if the allegations are true. i want to look at the line of succession again with you. if all three of these men were to resign, the next person in line would be a republican. it would essentially turn virginia over to the republican party. something donald trump seems to think would be a great idea. he's tweeting about that. that virginia's going to come home to republicans in 2020. are democrats thinking about that aspect, the fact that they would turn the state over to the

republicans if all three of these men were to go? >> yeah. there's two parts. there's the ethical, serious concerns that i have about the allegations of miss watson and vanessa tyson, then there's the political. let's deal with the ethical first. the reality is the best thing for everyone involved is for there to be a legal investigation. that is the best way to validate dr. tyson's allegations, watson's allegations, and the sort of denials on the part of justin fairfax. we cannot have our politics, we cannot have the validity of sexual assault be determined by who can get access to the "washington post" or who has a better lawyer. that's not going to help the next woman or man who comes forward who can't get access to that kind of media when they have concerns. oil spilly speaking, i'm going to say -- politically speaking, i'm going to say this, i'm not a democrat but i'm going to play one on tv right now. what we're not about to have happen if you're a smart democrat, you are not about to let the republican party weaponize your own values against you in order to do a power grab in virginia.

we've got 2020 coming up, there are legislative elections happening in virginia now. the republican party doesn't care about blackface. they don't care about institutional racism. they don't care about rape culture or protecting black women. they'll use opportunities to do a power grab they couldn't do in elections. democrats need to back off from any discussions of resignation, any decision discussions of articles of impeachment until there's an actual investigation. then you make a decision. >> let me ask you about the question of investigation. a lot of republicans are bringing up the brett kavanaugh situation to compare it to the justin fairfax situation. of course, justin fairfax has the lawyer, a lawyer, that was associated with the defense of kavanaugh. is there any talk now in virginia about actually bringing in the fbi or bringing in the state arm of the fbi to investigate these claims? >> i don't think it's gotten that far. we've heard calls for the north carolina state police to get involved. obviously duke university, located in north carolina. you know, i think it's fascinating the way this has

accrued unintentionally i would assume to ralph northam's benefit. he has conducted a series of meetings yesterday with, for example, the national association of black farmers which is located, headquarters here close to richmond. i was driving down here, down 95. i got a call from john boyd who leads the organization at the behest of a public relations agency. mr. johnson was referring to this. to try to sort of spin the media, talk about the fact that he, in fact, was in the governor's mansion yesterday about 1:00, having a meeting with ralph northam and was given a list of -- this call list to call people like me and you to tell them that ralph northam was a good guy after all, and he should stick around. you know, events have sort of conspired to give northam new life. this after renewed calls for even for his resignation. so an incredibly complex series, complex dynamic going on here.

>> yeah. to say the least. you've had -- buzzfeed has the piece about northam saying that parts of what he wants to do is completely change his agendas to focus on race. saying that he's ad -- his advisers have assigned him to read "roots" and "the case for reparations," the "atlantic" article. and that he's doing this reinvention of himself. is there a scenario in which it is northam who winds up being in the soundest political position of the three because of the threat to turn the state over to the republicans? >> only if democrats in the state are foolish. i'm sorry, but we still don't know if he was wearing blackface or dressed as a klan member, a modern-day terrorist organization. i'm not sure if taking a history class absolves you or the fact that ralph northam lied about it. if democrats in the state are smart, if voters in virginia are smart, you look at the men individually and say, look, northam did something bad, lied about it, we'll determine. her doing something bad, lied

about it, we'll determine. justin fairfax is accused of something he says he hasn't done it. we need to do an investigation. at the end of the day, the fact that all three of the men are weakened politically might mean that you can extract the kinds of policies from them that you've always wanted. look, if ralph northam thinks he has to listen to black people now that he's governor, maybe that ends up being a good thing. if justin fairfax decides, look, whether i did something or not, obviously i have lessons to learn, maybe we can get more protections for birth rights and natal rights and things like that for women. i don't think this idea of getting rid of everybody when every single one of these people to a certain extent has denied their behavior without an investigation, is the smartest way for anyone to go politically. >> we will see. of course, this is a very, very, very important swing state, virginia. that's part of the reason that this is taking up so much space. it's also just because it's so strange. mike viquiera, thank you very much. jason's going to be back later in the hour. coming up, grammy-nominated hip-hop artist gets detained by i.c.e.

and lots of people are wondering why. the attorney for 21 savage will be here to discuss the attempt to deport his client. my experience with usaa has been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today.

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♪ i cooperate imagine my kids stuck at the border still need water ♪ just days after delivering that stinging critique of trump's immigration policies, not to mention the flint water crisis, on the "tonight show," tonight show" rapper 21 savage was arrested by immigration and customs enforcement authorities on super bowl sunday in atlanta. according to ice whose real name is sha yaa bin abraham joseph is a uk citizen who overstayed his visa and has a felony drug conviction but his lawyers dispute that and say savage's family overstayed their work visa and he was left without legal status like 200 migrants that came as children. he now faces possible deportation. joining me now is his attorney, charles cot. thank you for being here. >> thank you.

we certainly appreciate it. >> we've been wanting to talk with you about this. a headline in "the new yorker" on february 6th read as -- read the shameful arrest of 21 savage. i'll read a bit of it. the sudden imprisonment of 21 savage is a big deal, precisely because no one saw it coming. if we can act on our shock, isis may have just put a celebrity face on a cause that was already worthy of everyone's attention and concern. reminding us the issues at the border are also unfolding around us. can you talk about this arrest, how did it unfold, where was he and did -- was there any sort of preview that -- did he see this coming at all? >> he did not see this coming at all in his life. it's really remarkable how this arrest occurred. i.c.e. apparently from what we've been able to piece together was part of a larger team that included atf agents and a couple of local police, in dekalb county in georgia. they were leaving a club in the evening, they were turning into a gas station. it was too full, they were

backing out and the police cars surrounded both sha yaa, that's how you pronounce his name. >> sorry. >> 21 yuz in a car. another car was a quarter mile ahead of him. they stopped that car first and had a warrant to serve on the guy driving that car. they had no police warrant to stop sha yaa bin and he was stopped by the atf agent and got out of the car when they asked him to comply with the requests of the atf agent and the first thing he said was, we got your man, and then i.c.e. picked him -- i.c.e. was there and said great, let's go and i.c.e. took him directly. sha yaa bin was never in the custody of ever else other than i.c.e. at the time. i.c.e. said several things to him that allowed us and allows us to believe they had been looking for him or looking at him since last august. but they clearly had incorrect information. they thought he had a conviction for what they termed to be an aggravated felony, and he does not. that conviction was vacated late

last year. they clearly had not done their homework beforehand. it's clear they didn't understand what they were starting when they arrested 21 savage and what that really is going to mean to the immigrant and to the black communities. >> yeah. we know now that jay-z has hired his -- added to your legal team alex spiro part of the defense team with you guys and he has said that the goal is now to get him out of detention. what's the status of that effort? >> that's why we've been relatively quiet this week. we released a couple statements to clarify some of the facts that have been misreported in the press because of i.c.e. statements to the press when he was detained. but this week we've been working behind the scenes with i.c.e. providing them with information about the fact that he has no conviction, information that he has remarkable ties to the community, he works with the police, he works with local prosecutors to get rid of gun violence, get joint -- encourage kids not to get into gangs. we have letters from congressmen that have come forward. we thought we had an opportunity to get him out on i.c.e. letting

him go. the only reason i.c.e. can detain somebody is if they're a flight risk, which he's clearly not, or if he's a danger to the community, which he's clearly not. but i.c.e. at its highest level i'm talking about headquarters i.c.e., they were not going to release him. that is consistent with what they told sha yaa our other team of lawyers on monday that they had made a decision in august not to release him. >> wow. >> and so we will now go to immigration court. immigration court is not like real courts. we have to go through a process to get in front of an immigration judge and ask that immigration judge for a bond in his case. unlike real courts which you have 24 to 48 hours later it will take a week or so to get in front of those judges to get him a bond. >> wow. >> until then he is fighting strong and he is simply not going to let i.c.e. destroy his life. >> and we know that there is a petition, a black lives matter,

petition patrice is a part of that demanding his release. about 200,000 virtual signatures and counting. in the bigger picture, there's a group called the black alliance for just immigration that puts out these numbers that show that, you know, in terms of black immigrants, black immigrants are about 5.4% of the unauthorized migrant population in the united states but made up 10.6% of all the removal proceedings between 2003 and 2015, you know, clearly he didn't want to become a face of this issue, but he kind of has. >> he absolutely has. it's shocking the disparity among black immigrants at their higher rates of incarceration and deportation. it's simply not justified. but it shows you the inherent race that's in the system that most people thought was latino issue, but simply broader than that. >> can i ask you, given the fact that he was only 7 years old when he came here wouldn't he be daca eligible or shouldn't he be? >> he would have been but he was bullied a great deal in and did

not finish high school and had simply did not get his get in time to qualify for daca. if daca came back today he would be eligible for it. >> yeah. >> he has other forms of relief that we'll be fighting for and we remain convinced not only will we get him out but secure his permanent residence in the united states. this is going to be a fight and we need everybody to convince i.c.e., simply not a good idea to detain a young man like this, much like they shouldn't detain many of the people that are currently incarcerated. >> you shouldn't have to be a grammy nominee to be eligible to be treated fairly, but the fact that he is may help a lot of people and hopefully will do -- you guys are doing a great job. keep us up to date on what's going on with this case. thank you very much. more "am joy" after the break. more "am joy" after the break. too little too late ♪ ♪ a sock-a-bam-boom ♪ who's in the room? ♪ love is dangerous ♪ but driving safe means you pay less ♪

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on february 9th i will be be announcing my plans in lawrence, massachusetts. lawrence has a history of working people coming together to make change, where the fight was hard, the battle was uphill and where a group of women led the charge for all of us. back then and still today lawrence is a diverse community working hard and boldly pursuing the american dream. it holds a special place in my heart and i'm excited to share that story on february 9th. >> welcome back to "am joy." a few minutes from now senator

elizabeth warren of massachusetts is expected to officially announce her 2020 presidential campaign from lawrence, massachusetts. a textile mill city with a rich labor history and where latinos make up more than three quarters of the city's population. warren who is proposing a wealth tax on ultramillionaires will join kamala harris, cory booker, julian castro, kirsten gillibrand and others and a field that may include amy klobuchar who will unveil her 2020 decision tomorrow. joining me is leah wright, assistant professor of public policy at harvard kennedy school and author "loneliness of the black republican" and joyson johns, careen jean-pierre and jossy ross and contributing editor of indian country today, consultant jimmy williams and msnbc senior politics editor

beth fewy. this should be an interesting speech. i'm going to go around the table and sort of talk about some of the significance of it. i'll start with you at the table, leah. lot of women running. the frontrunners if you just go by the buzz and the excitement around their candidacies appear to be the two women, kamala harris and now obviously elizabeth warren is going to come in big because she has big ideas about taxing, et cetera. what does she need to do today to get herself beyond the one thing people want to talk about her dna? >> so, elizabeth warren has to do the thing that she's best at doing, which is show has to talk about the little people. she has to talk about the people on the ground, the talk about main street and talk about americans. i mean one of their signatures in the areas in which she's excelled and distinguished herself has been railing against big banks, talking about the people on the ground, talking about unions, talking about workers. so we're going to have to see a lot of that, a lot of new ideas,

see a lot of policy, we're going to have to see her bringing ideas like unions back in and then also, too, finding a place for women, findplati a place fo immigrants and people of color and making that into a of those >> yeah. and let me go to beth, because you're out there for this speech today. the choice of where this is taking place was very significant, obviously, for elizabeth warren. talk about that. >> yeah. it's here at her home state in massachusetts, but as you said in your intro this city has a very significant history in terms of the labor movement and someone like elizabeth warren who has made her career about economic inequality and rich people and banks and big business have taken advantage of the little people, this is a smart spot for her to start and the site of the 1912 bread and rose es strike, a textile strike that was significant in the history of the labor movement. women by the thousands walked

off their textile jobs in 1912 after textile owners decided to cut their pay in response to a state law cutting women's working hours. this was an amazing strike. it brought together women of 40 different nationalities, 20,000 some women over two months walking off the job and that forced those textile unions to allow the women to organize, bring up their pay, make some adjustments in terms of their workforce. so it's a significant history in the labor movement. smart place for elizabeth warren to kick off the campaign. he's been consistent throughout her career talking about workers and talking about economic inequality. we'll hear more of that from her and her speech in a few minutes. >> i want to go to you, because the thing that the media has been fixated on is the dna question. elizabeth warren brought it up to try to get it off the table but put it back on the table and new revelations about her putting on a state bar of texas application herself as american

indian, which she says is from her family, causing consternation. i want to play for you elizabeth warren's apology on that on wednesday and her talk in which she talked about speaking with a representative, a member of the indigenous community. take a listen. >> i had a good conversation last week with chief baker, who is chief of the cherokee tribes, and i told chief baker that i am sorry, that i extended confusion about tribal citizenship and tribal sovereignty and for harm caused. i am also sorry for not being more mindful of this decades ago. >> is that enough to get this -- get her past this the your mind? >> well, joy, first of all, good morning. >> good morning. >> and you know, there's no wrong time to do the right

thing. i've been critical and there's been a group of writers and native people who have been absolutely rightfully indignant and outraged by her dishonesty and her muddying the waters regarding native identity to people who have no business at all opining about native identity, notable amongst those are rebecca nagle, and dr. kim tallber, who have had an amazingly prolific and rightful critique of elizabeth warren. that said, i think that at some point it's important to recognize that first of all she did apologize and sounded like a sin veer apology. i'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist but she addressed it head on. regarding whether or not that is sufficient i can't say. that is between her and the cherokee nation. that is between her and the voters of america at large. and also, you know, we see in

virginia where we have a man who right now is fighting for his political life regarding playing with identity in a very ugly and racist way. we have to consider whether or not she will be able to survive this. i don't know the answer to that. the question about whether or not that apology was good, i thought it was a good apology and i thought it was something that hopefully we can get to a place where native people are not used as a campaign prop by either elizabeth warren or donald trump or anybody else non-native. this has got to be something where we talk about issues that pertain to the native community of what can you do to the native community. with that, joy, i just want to mention that elizabeth warren just like northam in virginia cannot be the bar. that cannot be the standard. it's dangerous when we put her out as sort of a caricature and say she is something that's wrong with the native community,

when almost every other presidential candidate hasn't had a relationship with native communities. i don't want to get past that point of saying we have to focus on her my yopically and let the other folks off the hook who haven't proffered forth a good idea regarding how they're going to work with the sovereign nations that exist within the united states. >> especially since we saw the suppression of native american votes in north dakota in the last lelection that has not bee addressed and donald trump's continuing disparnling of the community even calling her pocahontas is actually, i don't know if he -- i don't know why he doesn't see that as disparaging. i want to before i move on get your comment, because now we know that kevin mccarthy, the highest ranking republican in the house of representatives, the minority leader of the house, had an inlaw who benefited to the tune of millions of dollars by also claiming native ancestry that

doesn't seem to have validity. what do you make of that? >> once again, i think it's important to show that elizabeth warren and this muddying of the waters regarding native identity, is just a symptom of hundreds of years of anti-native racism, of yap pathy toward native nations and toward just the general disdain for native people specifically that has gone unchecked for hundreds of years. so for us to just focus on elizabeth warren, i think we absolutely have to. she did something really, really not smart. she muddied that water further by continuing to backup and double down on her lie. however, she's not the only one. to the degree that other presidential and political candidates don't address some affirmative vision of how they see working within these sovereign nations, these native nations, we're letting them off the hook. that's something we simply

cannot afford to do. i'm anxious to get past the point where we're talking about her dna and we're talking about issues and let the voters decide whether or not this is something this dishonesty is something that disqualifies her from being a presidential candidate. >> a let's talk about the issues. that's a fair point. i want to go into one that is the other thing that is roiling the right when it comes to the right, the idea of a wealth tax. the centerpiece plank of her at least her first big idea that she's put out there. there have been people who have been representing it as a mistake to lead with something that is essentially a tax hike. what do you make of it? >> i think it's ridiculous what the right is saying. if they want to go ahead and support a people who make $50 million or more, they can go ahead and do that. it seems like a really bad play. we have to understand elizabeth warren is a bankruptcy lawyer expert. she's been doing it all of her

life. also, the far right who goes after her and calls her a socialist and left wing person, she was also a life-long republican. it's not that place that she comes from. she comes from a place of expertise, of experience. she's been really consistent in that way. look, the wealth tax is incredibly popular and popular with the majority of republicans too if you look at polling. i think it's about time where you have people who make more than $50 million, if you have more than $50 million in assets you should probably pay a little bit more. you people who make $50,000 a year who cannot, you know, afford just to put food on their table many of them, and they -- they're carrying a lot of the burden. i think that if you're able to do this and invest because it's supposed to also put in $2.75 billion why not use that money to put it back into the middle class into middle-class families. it's a smart policy and like i

said it's incredibly popular. >> let me go, i'm a bit obsessed with the calendar and think the map is important when getting the nomination, you have to win states early on and now that california is early and super tuesday doesn't just include california but elizabeth warren's home state of massachusetts, interestingly for her, right, but before that, they got to come through south carolina which has been the candidacy killer in the past, where is elizabeth warren situated to do well enough in south carolina to be able to move on with some strength literally a week later, a little over a week later, to super tuesday? >> well, i think she's got to do well in iowa and/or new hampshire before she gets to south carolina. if she places first, second or third in either of those states both of those states then that put hers into a strong position coming down here to south carolina. let me -- can i go back and address the issue of her native americanism or lack thereof or

whatever it is. the first part is, are native american indigenous tribes willing to give her -- accept her apology and come out publicly so? if so that's good for her. if not it doesn't matter. because the republicans no matter what are going to beat the hell out of her for this gaffe, for this mistake. i don't know that it's not recoverable. i don't know that it is. in the end, if anyone thinks that donald trump and his -- are going to stop talking about this, they're wrong. they will. the question does that play down here? does that put doubt into the minds of middle-class voters, suburban voters, in south carolina as to whether or not she has credibility? remember what they did to hillary clinton for 30 plus years. they made her an incredible person, that means without credibility, that made her a crook. the boogie man. it worked. it worked really, really well. and if they're doing exactly the same template to elizabeth

warren, which is, hound on her, talk about her credibility, say she's a liar, she's, you know, et cetera, radical socialist ideas and that will stick with moderate voters down here which you need to win. the question to answer your question about coming to south carolina, yes, they better all start getting down here, all these people who think that they can be president of the united states, spend time down here, but nothing will stop them -- nothing will hurt them worse than not being here and not knocking on doors. south carolina voters demand one thing, you have to ask for their vote, not assume you're going to get it. that applies to every person coming down here. >> it's a primary where you have to get, you know, african-american voters are decisive, obviously, everywhere in the democratic party -- >> that's right. >> 60% of the democratic base. let me go to jason on this. it isn't just the republicans that created a meme out of things about hillary clinton that were easy catch phrases, right, about her e-mails and it isn't just, you know -- it wasn't just the republicans, it

was the media as well and elizabeth warren's other issue is that vortex she's in isn't just a republican or a trump vortex, it's a media vortex too. you know, what do you -- what are people -- what is sort of the guys out there in the political world where you are constantly on the road about whether or not she is too hobbled by the media vortex that she finds herself in to get out of it and start talking about things like her wealth tax? >> so, virginia, georgia, north carolina, places that i have been in recent months, i can tell you that the native american thing really doesn't matter, right. most people who i've spoken to that doesn't seem to matter. i mean on the scale of using identity for your own purposes, you've got anywhere from rachel to ralph northam and i don't think she falls into either of those categories so i don't get the impression that regular people care about it. most people just want to know what does elizabeth warren stand for? she gave a speech at the december graduation of morgan

state university where she consistently talked about how the system is unfair and how changes need to be made. she constantly says things like look, it's not about playing the game better but rewriting the rules. that's the only thing that's going to matter to regular people. what i think elizabeth warren has done well thus far, because this is what she's going to have to do, she's not going to get the big town halls that schultz will get or the big town halls that kamala harris will get or the attention that corey booker will get, but she's in iowa, in iowa more than thaeb else. you can't win this game in the first quarter. i think as long as she establishes she can talk to people on a regular basis about what her policy is, i suspect that she'll be fine. do i think she will be the nominee? probably not. do i think she can beat donald trump? we don't know. but do i think she can be a viable candidate and she has had probably one of the most substantive rollouts most definitely. what i'm hearing from regular people is they're willing to hear what she has to say where a lot of these people are trapped in a brand good or bad they

can't change. >> i'm going to take a quick break because we're waiting for this thing to get started and watching the elizabeth warren launch out in massachusetts. but when i come back i want to talk about this. she has a pcomplicated background, she's from oklahoma, a lifelong republican as careen said, and want to find out from our panel, go around the table, whether or not those oklahoma republican roots, sort of middle american roots that are unlike her brand, help her if she can make that case to a general election audience? elizabeth warren's presidential campaign announcement and then that will join that live when we come back.

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we are awaiting senator elizabeth warren's official announcement she's running for president in 2020 making that announcement in lawrence, massachusetts, a few speakers away. i will bring the panel back. elizabeth warren's background is a complicated matter, but all not least the which she's associated with massachusetts where you live, associated with being a massachusetts liberal when most of her life was an oklahoma republican. is there some way that is useful to her, that background? >> so i think she's going to try to use that particularly as

she's making her way through pounding the ground, i'm like you, grew up like you, common experiences like you. >> like mother jones. >> she can also say i understand where you're coming from like we're not that far apart. >> yeah. >> and also, speaking of language that i think is directly relatable to the issues which constantly talking about including identity working class bread and butter the things that we say that republican and democrats have to hit on in the -- in the lead up to the 2020 election. >> yeah. >> all of that plays to her favor, provided she can, you know, stay away from the provocations of donald trump. >> yeah. >> she is -- she is at her best when she finds a way to really straddle these worlds and hit at the economic inequality policies that speak to people across class lines and racial lines and ethnic and gender lines. >> gyasi, obviously the big sort of, you know, cloud overhanging

the entire process is donald trump. donald trump who singularly unpopular in the world, i'm looking at polling here, not your state, but virginia, pennsylvania, nevada, iowa, michigan, wisconsin, colorado, minnesota, deeply under water. you can see on the side that little last column, that's how far under water he is in terms of approval and disapproval. i wonder how much donald trump figures into the choices that people are making about what they want? is it an -- is it give me the opposite of this or do people need to be making an affirmative case for themselves? >> unfortunately, the truth is this is going to be an anti-donald trump election and we saw to the degree that that worked in 2016 or it didn't work. i mean that's the truth. the numbers say that it didn't work. and ultimately it seems like there might even be more splintering in 2020 amongst democratic lines which could yield a similar result.

to the degree that these folks and specifically we're talking about elizabeth warren do not offer up their own vision and instead are playing defense to some childish, racist, horrible remarks that donald trump might make, and so that was sort of the point of the first segment was, can we start getting to the vision? can we start getting to what actually you're offering instead of a maury povich moment where you say, i have dna of whatever, thereby emboldening a whole bunch of non-native people to speculate on what native identity means. just in itself shows she at least at that moment was playing the same game that donald trump has played and that's not a good game. that's not going to lead to democratic victory. >> yeah. it's difficult. karin, that is true along the lines gyasi was saying, the issue of just being a woman running, right? >> yeah. >> a lot of what you will run up

against is the difference between the way women are treated and men are treated. i raise the kevin mccarthy issue, about substantively benefitting to the claim of native identity and that story actually came out over a month ago and did nothing. elizabeth warren without any proof she financially benefited this is what we're talking about. i wonder how much she's a democrat and a woman? >> i think a lot of that is she's a woman. let's not forget 2016 sexism played a huge role in that election and we saw that in focus groups and polling, we saw that when people were coming out of the exit polling and talking about why they voted for donald trump and how they felt about hillary clinton or a woman being president. so that was really clear. you see it now, the likability. let's not forget when elizabeth warren first came out with her exploratory committee in december, there was this whole

conversation about likability when, guys, don't have to go through that. when a woman runs for office is she likable enough. >> yeah. >> that's all very, very ridiculous. here's the thing, joy, if when she announces today, clearly elizabeth warren is going to announce today, and klobuchar tomorrow, that's six women in a democratic primary. that is incredibly historic, very diverse. we're going to see how being a woman plays out in this primary and in this election depending on who becomes the nominee clearly for 2020. we have to remember this is the first quarter. jason was saying the first quarter of many quarters. things are going to be different three months from now, six months for now, we're going to see how people feel about these candidates once they get out there, once they're able to put out their platform, once they're able to show if they can, you know, be president and beat donald trump. look, the only data point that i can go back to when we're talking about what are voters

looking for, is 2018 in november. there we saw that issues were really important, health care was number one, people really cared about that, but also folks wanted to be -- wanted to make sure that if -- by electing folks into congress and changing the house blue they were accountable for donald trump. we're seeing a little bit of that as well. people want to make sure that whoever is the nominee can beat donald trump, but we're talking about iowa, talking about new hampshire and south carolina, people are going to want to hear what these candidates are going to do to move this country forward as well. >> you mean, they don't want to hear if they're nice? if they're nice. jimmy is nice. you're nice. let's talk to you, we're going to talk about -- >> sometimes. >> even though you're a man. we're still talking about whether you're nice. the thing is i hear this all the time and, you know, karene is better in doing politics and campaign than i am, way higher up level on the obama campaign. >> thanks, joy.

on this intangible quality that says you're going to help me. donald trump had no policy except for locking brown immigrants out. i guess that's a policy. what is it on the ground that actually moves the people to the polls? >> people care a lot of things but they care about themselves. we're mostly selfish voters. if you're anti--lbgt you're not getting my vote because i happen to be -- if you're anti-black and anti-voting rights you're not going to get my vote. this is not complicated. karene said something interesting, women have been held and we saw this in 2016 to

a different standard and likability than men are. i agree with that, that was the case in 2016. i will be interested in watching how people compare elizabeth warren versus donald trump and likability. the man has literally physically profoundly and meta physically sullied the presidency of the united states. the white house itself. the very core of our government. he has sullied that in every action that he has taken. i'm not saying that as a partisan but as a human being. the question then is, what is his likesibility compared to elizabeth warren or kamala's or sherrod brown or whomever, doesn't matter. his likability is now on the chopping block. >> yep. >> it's up for judgment. so i think people care about that. the other thing they care about is the issue of electability. can -- so if i'm a voter in south carolina and say, can elizabeth warren beat donald trump? can michael bloomberg beat donald trump? who's got the better shot? and that's when they have to make a judgment call and it's

still personal. the issue of likability is on the table this time for men. i think it absolutely is. and i think people are going to sit back and say, do i like the person, i don't have to like all their policies, i want to beat the hell out of donald trump and get him out of the white house and never hear from that guy again and are they electable. that is the key here. that's what people want to know. that's it. that's all they want. >> are they electable in terms of being able to carry african-american voters? an interesting dynamic that elizabeth warren and you and i both know she's been kind of living in black churches and talking to black leaders when you get to that super tuesday primary, it's a lot of southern states and she has to play in the south and that means african-american voters. where does she stand vis-a-vis having to compete with kamala harris and cory booker for that vote? >> until we see what biden does, what bernie does or beto, the three bs, the three white guys,

white men running right now, elizabeth warren is in the best position to be the candidate, the democratic candidate, that says i'm the white person good with black people because i've said all along cory booker or kamala harris have to get over 40% of the black vote in south carolina or they're done. that is how they demonstrate i'm not just a general population candidate but i can bring -- i can move the african-american vote. so they have a much higher threshold. elizabeth warren if she can establish herself and look she's been hanging out at black churches, doing the wakanda salute, showing up at black colleges, doing everything she can to hang around with as many black people as possible. i suspect at one point she'll have a paparazzi photo of meeting with stacy abram, the virtue signal they're down with black people, the issue is can she be the 15 to 20% of the black vote white person in the election? if she is, she puts herself in a very good position if not win the nomination, then possibly be a vp pick. i think that's something that everybody out there really needs

to understand going forward in this election. you have multiple primaries. the electable primary. can you win your nomination. and the general, can you beat donald trump? you have the other african-american primary, black folk are not going to sit around and wait anymore to be pandered to. african-american voters are not like white democrats this year. they're not like lbgt democrats this year or like latino democrats this year. they are empowered in a way they have never been before. if you don't have policy for black people you won't get ahead. you can't get by with smiling and being friendly and having a nice partner. you have to give something to black voters. >> the wakanda salute is not enough? >> i'm going to beth. we will try to get another break. power issues delaying the start of the elizabeth warren event and we will come back in a second. i want to go to beth. the other blessing that democrats tend to want is the kennedy blessing. the hillary clinton and barack obama fought over it in 2008.

barack obama won that. and was able to sort of get that mantle of the kennedy magic on him which really upset the clintons clearly. this time around, elizabeth warren is getting an early jump on at least a piece of that. tell us a little bit about that? >> yeah. so congressman joe kennedy iii is going to be introducing elizabeth warren today and endorsing her candidacy. we actually heard from joe kennedy a couple days ago he wasn't going to be a candidate for president himself this year, that he had too many other things on his plate. you'll recall that last year after the state of the union address joe kennedy delivered the democratic response, which shows that the democratic party definitely thinks he's an up and comer on his own and the fact that he has the famous last name doesn't hurt. the kennedy mantle doesn't have quite the same magic perhaps it did 30, 50 years ago back in the days of jfk, but it's still -- it's something. they're the most famous and, you know, probably nationally

well-known historic democratic family in this country. for joe kennedy, who is an up and comer, to throw his support clearly to elizabeth warren, it's helpful. it's not the biggest thing in the world, but it is something that she can point to that this is a show of confidence from the most prominent democratic family in the country that she could carry on that family's legacy as president of the united states, joy. >> all right. we're going to take another break because we know they're a little delayed. when we come back i want to talk about the other family whose mantle a lot will want, the name starts with "o" and ends with bama. the obama primary. because everybody i'm sure wants that blessing who is going to get it, who is in line for it, and is elizabeth warren who has a relationship going back to harvard university with one barack obama, former president of the united states, we will talk about that when we come back. elizabeth warren will make it official and we'll bring it to you live after the break. >> introducing another champion for working people. windchill windchil (mom vo) it's easy to shrink

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fighting, fighting for our brothers and sisters in puerto rico to make sure they get the housing and support they deserve as american citizens. and she is fighting for the

people in lawrence andover so they are made whole after the natural gas explosions and fires last year and that that gas company is held accountable. i've been in congress for a while now and no one knows how to fight for what is right better than elizabeth warren and these days, these days fighting for what is right means fighting the dangerous, the divisive, hateful agenda of donald trump, but the gogood news, no one kno to get under donald trump's skin better than elizabeth warren. >> that's senator ed markey from massachusetts showing support for senator warren as she prepares to officially announce

that she is running for president in 2020 making her announcement in lawrence, massachusetts, that will be at any moment now. my panel back with me. i want to go around quick lightning round before we get the senator on board, and one of the issues that senator markey is very much involved in, he is a cosponsor of the green new deal, that's going to be a big deal, elizabeth warren is one of the members of congress that's really focusing on climate change as an important issue, leah. do you think that issue can be something -- does the environment move votes is the question? it hasn't in the past. >> right. so the environment moves votes when you connect it to actual practical people's lived experiences and every day lives. if we think about something like flint, michigan, that is an environmental issue, a policy issue, it is a racial issue, that has implications far reaching that, of course, people care about. when we think about something like the dakota access pipeline and things like that, that is connected to environmental

issues that has a measurable impact on people's day-to-day lives. there is absolutely a way in which we can expand that, right. there are elements of the green new deal that talk about transportation and travel that has implications for economics and implications for jobs, it has implications for the suburbs and the cities and the people that live in these cities. when we talk about, you know, climate and policy and, you know, people saying well maybe that's not the sexiest thing we should be using, actually, it has wide reaching, you know, sprawling implications for all of these populations and groups. so one of the things that we've seen that for the people who have, you know, come out in support of the green new deal has been the way in which they have connected it to both kind of these other historical issues that are really important to people on the ground. >> yeah. and gyasi, it's also being connected, the reason it's called green new deal and not just a green program is they're connecting it to jobs and this is all kind of interrelated talking about economics and, of

course, taxes and there's a big debate right now about whether or not the super rich should be paying more in order to make possible things like a green new deal, things like expanded health care. do you think that this issue winds up -- is this the era where democrats can actually talk affirmatively about things like taxes and not just be, you know, destroyed for it? >> i think that absolutely, we need to talk, we need to have audacious conversations regarding taxation of the ultrawealthy, and this is the time do that. there are, obviously, certain constitutionality issues regarding this particular wealth tax and anything that has a quote/unquote direct taxation where those founding -- white people's founding fathers said you can't directly tax and this was a compromise related to slavery so it makes sense that wealthy white people don't want to tax what they see as unfairly

other wealthy largely white people. there are certain constitutionality issues. it's a conversation that has to happen. i'm not sure in a congress that can't even pass a budget that we're going to, if it has -- requires a constitutional amendment we will get two-thirds of congress and three fourths of state to approve this when facing another shutdown. joy, just really briefly regarding the green new deal, that's something that has largely been offered by native indigenous activists because indigenous people were the first environmentalists here. >> right. >> and that's something where elizabeth warren may able to make some hay. but she has one hangup she was not somebody who was an outspoken opponent or opponent at all publicly of the dakota access pipeline and that's something she has to answer for in this green new deal conversation. >> absolutely.

the dakota pipeline will come back as an issue. joe kennedy iii, and he, of course, the grandson of rfk, robert kennedy line of the kennedy family, speaking now on behalf of senator elizabeth warren. we will listen to that in a moment. [ speaking foreign language ] >> folks, i want to tell you for a second why i am here on the very first day of this historic campaign. i'm here because i represent places like fall river and taunton and adabarl. proud, massachusetts hometowns like lawrence. >> lawrence! lawrence! >> like lawrence. where there is a legacy of work. of hard work. where folks don't ask for much

in return. just the ability to take care of the ones that they love. to do right by themselves and their families. i'm here because their story is your story. it's a story that i've seen in mcallen, texas, and tampa, florida, and in charleston, west virginia. in cities like detroit and phoenix and in south bend. communities that are full of grit and fight and a country whose broken economy takes every single ounce of it for granted. a system -- >> i want to really quickly thank my panel because we're going to listen to joe kennedy iii because he is introducing elizabeth warren but i wanted to

make sure i got a chance to thank you guys very much. we're going to listen in and then after joe kennedy iii, you will be listening to elizabeth warren. let's go back to that. >> poor and female. poor and gay. poor and old or sick or addicted. folks today we are a country of soaring stock prices and global profits and global force. we are also a country of working poor, of hunger, and rich places and of deep worry for what

tomorrow brings. and this has been our fight. the painful disconnect that we have seen for decades. and another young senator named robert kennedy discussed some 50 years ago. and said, our gross national product, if we judge the united states of america by that, does to the allow for the health of our job children, the quality of their education, the joy of hair play. it measures neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country. it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. and it tells us everything about america except for why we are

proud to be americans. half a century later, economic injustice remains the challenge of our time. tangled with every other cause we carry. racial discrimination, immigration, climate change, health care. so friends, i am here with you all today because there's one candidate in this race, there is one u.s. senator, one proud daughter of oklahoma and adopted daughter of our commonwealth who has dedicated her entire life to this battle, to our cause, for decades before anyone in power noticed something was wrong, there was elizabeth.

before most democrats stood up and said yes, we pass the civil rights act and fair labor standards act and fair housing act and dodd/frank, but it's not enough. every day lamenting about economic inequality, elizabeth warren knew that stock prices don't offer a full accounting of our country's economic story. medical bankruptcies, foreclosures and paychecks are part of that story too. and the most powerful nation on earth with the most powerful economy in human history, doesn't have to sacrifice people for progress.

that is the truth that echos through these rafters at everette mills. where workers fought not just for their livelihood, but their hearts starve as well as bodies. give us bread but give us roses. small art and love and beauty, their drudging spirits knew. yes, it is bread we fight for. but give us roses, too. and ladies and gentlemen, that will truth is the truth that has anchored elizabeth warren's career. i remember asking her years ago why of all things on earth, why bankruptcy? of all of the things you could have chosen.

why bankruptcy? as a young student might say, why the incredibly complicated arcane bankruptcy? and her response, because bankruptcy is about how our system treats people after they lose everything. when rock bottom comes, and the deeper meaning she tooking from that that ours is a country of second chances, of redemption, of horizons that don't disappear when fate gives you a tough hand. that a national character is not measured by how high those soar, by how we do when folks are broken. when they are on their knees, when they are empty and they are wont to rise again and elizabeth warren's america, we pull them

up. we fight by their side. we refuse to leave anyone behind. we will not splinter and we will not segregate. we refuse to accept the status quo that tells us that big things are impossible, that progressive dreams unreachable. and we refuse, we reject a president who tells us that we are each other's enemy. who forces america to fight over the scraps in a system instead of uniting against the system who deems them only worthy of scraps to begin with. and so i'm here with you today because this country, our country, needs a leader who will

restore the solidarity that donald trump stole. who not cower from the big, tough battles, from the ugly injustice and oppression that still finds its way to american soil. a leader who will bring this country together to take on our greatest threat. a system that protects the powerful and the privileged while the rest struggle to get by. that leader, ladies and gentlemen, is a colleague, a mentor, and a friend. that leader is the next president of the united states. that leader is elizabeth warren. please join me in welcoming the next president of the united states of america, senator

elizabeth warren! >> senator elizabeth warren heading up to the podium after being introduced by joe kennedy iii grandson of robert f. kennedy. here she is coming up to the song "9 to 5." remember that movie? elizabeth warren coming up. elizabeth warren running on a platform that is very familiar to anyone who has followed her life as either a tax lawyer, who fought to the create the consumer financial protection bureau which was then gutted by the current administration and somebody who definitely triggers donald trump whenever she speaks, donald trump tweets. a lot of people think that is a selling point for her to be the nominee that she's somebody who would get under donald trump's skin because she's a woman, because she has some really strong issues, because she scares wall street, because she has definitive plans like a wealth tax. donald trump probably doesn't like that idea earring. she is going to make her case

right now in lawrence, mass. here she is. >> good morning, lawrence! [ chants of usa ] >> so in the 12 years that i've known joe kennedy it, i've watched him up close as he fights every day for what he believes in. joe is a good man and a good friend. thank you for being here today, joe. thank you. and thank you to all of our dynamic speakers who have been keeping everybody fired up and everybody warmed up this morning. and thank you to the best partner ever in the united states senate. he's been fighting for climate change and now he's fighting for a green new deal, ed markey.

let's re-elect him to the senate next year. and thank you to a woman who is now making her own way in the halls of congress, lawyer trahan. and thank you to counselor michelle wu, to sheriff steve tompkins, to mayor danny riviera, great leaders and long-time friends. and thank to you karen and to colleagues in the state house and other local leaders all of whom are with us here today. thank you. and most of us, thank you, thank to you everyone. i love you, too. thank to you everyones who

traveled here to lawrence. i am deeply grateful that you came here on a cold and blustery day to be part of this announcement. thank you. thank you. so i want to tell you a story. a little over 100 years ago, textile mills in lawrence, like the ones behind us today, employed tens of thousands of people. immigrant immigrants came from more than 50 countries for a chance to work in these looms. lawrence was one of the centers of american industry. yeah. business was booming, the guys at the top were doing great. but workers made so little money than families were forced to crowd together in dangerous tenements and many lived on beans and scraps of bread. inside the mills, working

conditions were horrible. children were forced to operate dangerous equipment. workers lost hands and arms and legs in the gears of machines. one out of every three adult millworkers died by the time they were 25. and then on january 11th, 1912, a group of women who worked right here at the everett mill discovered that their bosses had cut their pay. and that was it. the women said enough is enough. they shut down those looms and they walked out. and soon workers walked out at another mill in town and then another and then another. until 20,000 textile workers across lawrence were on strike.

now, these workers, led by women, didn't have much. they didn't even have a common language. nevertheless, they persisted. they organized, they embraced common goals. they translated the minutes of their meetings into 25 different languages. so that the english and irish workers who had been here for years around the slavic and the syrian workers who were new to america could all stand together. now, they hammered out their demands, fair wages, overtime pay, and the right to join a union. big businesses at that time called those demands a threat to

the very survival of america. and the bosses were determined to shut it down. they spread rumors and fear about the strikers. one factory owner even paid a guy to plant sticks of dynamite around town so that he could frame the workers as a violent mob. the mill owners also owned city government. and city government declared martial law and called in the militia. some strikers died in violent clashes with the police. understand, it was a hard fight. families that were already going to bed hungry had to make do with even less. they were cold. they were under attack. but they stuck together and they won. higher wages,