. good morning, i'm phillip mena at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it's 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west. here's what's happening. a new denial and a new promise. 2020 heating up. elizabeth warren throws her hat in the ring. amy cloe bu schaar not very far behind. funding the government. we're following three major stories developing this hour. virginia's political crisis deepens with increasing talks of a potential impeachment of

lieutenant governor justin fairfax. the two women who accused him said they're willing to testify at impeachment proceedings. the woman who accuses him in 2000 says she'll provide evidence. fairfax denies the allegations saying the encounters were consensual. he's refusing to step down and is calling for an investigation including from the fbi. another major story today. democratic members of congress visiting the border ahead of president trump's rally in el paso, texas, tomorrow. they're trying to counter the president's narrative that there's a national security crisis at the border. >> it's frustrating to know that we are being painted as a dangerous place meant to be controlled. >> we also know that we need an agency that will continuously adapt to changing threats and circumstances and that's why you have to look at the border on a

mile-by-mile base zblis it is a mix of policies that will make our communities safe, our border secure. >> also developing today, the crowded field of 2020 democratic presidential hopefuls will have another addition. this afternoon senator amy klobuchar is expected to formally announce she is running. yesterday senator elizabeth warren launched her bid calling for big structural change and underlying her trademark message against economic inequality. >> when i talk about this some rich guy screamed, class warfare. these same rich guys have been wagging class warfare against hard working people for decades. i say it's time to fight back. >> now let's delve more into the scandals that have engulfed virginia's top three leaders. the governor of virginia is now pledging to fight racial

inequality after admitting he wore black face in 1984. >> embattled governor ralph northam telling the washington post he plans to spend the rest of his term facing racial inequity. virginians divided on his future. >> the governor needs to resign. >> he should be given a chance. >> but the pressure is mounting on lieutenant governor justin fairfax as he confronts another sexual assault allegation. meredith watson said fairfax raped her when they were both students at duke university in 2000. in a statement watson describes the attack as premeditated and aggressive. that charge comes after dr. vanessa tyson accused fairfax of sexually assaulting her in 2004. fairfax fighting back saying it is demonstrably false. i have never forced myself on anyone ever. fairfax defiant hours before

watson's allegation became known. >> do you support investigation into the allegation against you, sir. >> we will have our say and i am confident in the truth. >> prominent democrats now lining up to insist he step down. as a virginia state delegate piles on. >> on monday i intend to introduce articles of impea impeachment on lieutenant governor justin fairfax. >> still hanging on, virginia attorney general mark harry who like northam admitted to wearing black face in the 1980s but has won some support for his admission and apology. virginia's top three official afls swept up by separate scandals but still on the job. joining me now, msnbc contributor matt opuzo with the "new york times" and dave leventhal. thank you both, gentlemen, for joining us this morning. let's begin with virginia governor ralph northam who told the washington post that an

african-american lawmaker made a post about a privilege. matt, isn't he reflecting the ee p epitome of white privilege? >> this can't be good for anyone. this whole issue both with the black face scandal and then obviously with the rape allegations against the lieutenant governor, it's just sort of crisis among crisis. the lieutenant governor issue is particularly interesting for somebody like me because the fbi, this call for an fbi investigation, the fbi is not going to be thrilled about being pulled into this political fray because, frankly, these investigations, even if the fbi comes in and does an investigation, let's say hypothetically they can't bring criminal charges, that doesn't

mean necessarily it didn't happen and the fbi isn't going to want to be in a position where they're putting their stamp of approval on a political candidate. it's just fraught on so many different levels. a new poll by the washington post and george mason university in virginia found that virginians are split on whether governor northam should step down but 58% of african-american virginians said he should not resign. how do you interpret this poll given that 87% of black voters support governor northam? >> a lot of democrats don't want a republican governor. the top three officials in virginia right now all democrats are all embroiled in their own scand scandal. if they go, you could have a republican serving as governor. that's what they want to avoid. the question is, where do we go from this point? if governor northam is dug in

and the lieutenant governor is dug in, where do they go? there's an odd recall process? it's not a recall election per se like we saw for example in wisconsin a few years ago. it could prompt a trial that would happen if the people of virginia want to go and 10% of them say, no, we want the governor out, we want the lieutenant governor out. that's a big question. nobody is calling for that in earnest but it is an option on the table. >> chaos there in virginia. let's talk about the border now. president trump is going to be holding a rally in el paso, texas now. let's hear what the president had to say during the state of the union. >> the border city of el paso, texas, used to have extremely high rates of violent crime. now immediately upon its building with a powerful barrier in place el paso is one of the

safest cities. >> democratic representative veronica escobar sent a letter to the president asking him to apologize. she said el paso has been one of the safest cities way before there was a border barrier. matt, are democrats breaking through this barrier? >> yeah. i mean, i think the issue about border security and el paso is said best from my colleagues who fact checked his state of the union address who say his claims against el paso are false, demonstrably about the crime rate. el paso was never one of the sort of most violent crime ridden cities pre-wall, pre-border issue or since. i think, look, the president obviously got into office in large part because of his hard

line stance on immigration. i couldn't see any reason why that kind of rhetoric is going to stop. he obviously thinks this is going to be a winner. he's boxed hem self in in washington. he doesn't want to have another shutdown. this is not a winner of an issue among democrats obviously and i think we're going to find out how far can he move on this still claim victory and still not lose the middle that he's going to need if he's going to be re-elected. >> beyond the empirical evidence we've seen anecdotally and i can tell you i was born and raised in el paso. it's always been one of the safest cities before that wall got built in -- started construction 2006, completed in 2008. but tomorrow that discussion will continue. now let's talk about another el pasoan.

beto o'rourke. let's listen to beto making that announcement sitting alongside his daughter. >> we will meet lies and hate with the truth and a vision for the future from the u.s./mexico border. molly, do we have some information on this? here we go. march for truth. >> we know what beto and molly think, dave. which side seems to be driving the discussion? >> both of them are doing their best but really what it's going to come down this week, who's going to have the upper hand when it comes to whether the government is going to shut down so we can talk about the existential issue of security on the southern border, but we have a major face-off that's going on between congress and the president. congress is angling towards a deal that's not going to give donald trump everything that he wants. the question now then becomes is donald trump going to shut down the government again? is he willing to do so or is he going to take another option,

which is the let's declare a national emergency option? which many republicans in his own party would be aghast at. they feel that would be presidential over reach and would be setting a precedent for a democrat the next time a democrat is president to do something similar with a different issue. so we've got a lot of drama happening yet again. happy ground hog day here in washington, d.c. >> later today, senator amy klobuchar is going to be joining the 2020 field of candidates. >> there was a great story in the times about how the democrats don't agree on anything except they're very, very sorry. everybody's in the race so far ends up being apologized or accused of something. it's going to be a crowded field. it's going to be a long election

campaign. they get longer and longer. you said it best at the top when you said how is anybody going to stand out here? i don't know the answer. i don't know the route that klobuchar is going to need to take to stand out from a crowded field. i think frankly you don't want to come right out of the gates with allegations like this. that's no good. but it's a long -- it's a long road before the primaries. it's a long road before the general election and i think a lot can change. >> dave, what do you think? how do you think amy klobuchar will stand out from the rest of the pack? >> you're going to have to figure out some three tiered debate staining that all the 15, 20 candidates are going to be on when all is said and done. she's somebody who has on the one handmade her reputation on being minnesota nice. somebody who's a very engaging personality. very popular in her home state of minnesota.

we've had some articles that come out that say, well, there's another side to this. in fact, with her staff she's quite mean. but the fact of the matter is that she among many, many other candidates are going to have to find some way to differentiate themselves, which is going to be something that's very difficult to do in this early going. before they can introduce themselves to all of america save for bernie sanders, joe biden, beto o'rourke, people that have name i.d., it is going to be a slog. this is the longest democratic campaign you'll have for president of the united states. >> what about senator elizabeth warren? she had this to say about president trump? how do you think warren stacks up against all the rest that have announced their candidacy as well as how do you think she's going to stack up against president trump? >> she's obviously trying to seize the mantle of being the progressive candidate and is trying to take all the oxygen

out of that part of the conversation, right? when you think of the kind of progressive, you know, the left left part of the left wing, you know, she wants you to be thinking of her. you know, talking about, as she did, class warfare. she seems to be saying, bring it on. let's have that debate. i'll deal with that being accused of class warfare. if she can make that conversation about economics and fairness, i think that plays to her strength. i think democrats obviously are going to have to figure out whether they want to be a progressive party going into 2020 or whether they want to go the big ten strategy and nominate somebody who's more of a centrist. >> a lot to shake out. matt apuzzo. david leventhal, thank you for joining us. coming up, taking on the king of tabloids. does the richest man in the world have a case against the national inquirer?

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new developments this morning as federal prosecutors look into whether ami and the national inquirer committed a federal crime by violating its nonprosecution deal in the michael cohen investigation. it comes after jeff bezos published threats by the tabloid accusing them of extorsion and black mail. joining me is former federal prosecutor doug burns. ami said they believe it acted

lawfully. it was a good faith negotiations to resolve all matters with him. do you think this conduct, from what we know, fits into the category of federal extorsion? >> let's talk about what extorsion is real quick. it's threatening either physical harm or harm to reputation in return be for most often money or a thing of value. it doesn't have to be money. the normal iteration is if you don't pay me $10,000, i'm going to publish these pictures. here it's if you don't step forward and not investigate this or step forward and say it's not political, you know, we're going to publish these photos. so you have the elements. in other words, the threat to harm jeff bezos's reputation and then you have the quit pro -- quid pro quo. in the case of money, law enforcement will come in, you

slo shore it up. you have the preliminary outlines of it but i'm not so sure law enforcement is going to find that at this stage with nothing more. you know, they're going to engage in a prosecutorial decision to prosecute the case. there are other aspects, public relations and so on. >> it's important to remember that ami is already under a nonprosecution agreement with the southern district of new york. isn't that a breach of contract? >> that's a great point and i'm glad you raised it. let me get into that. normally when somebody enters into one of these non-pros agreements, i've seen them, they have to go nonlegal, keep it simple, on their best behavior for lack of a better description. here it's surprising indeed, working off your point, that they would turn around and engage in what i started by describing as, you know, debatable legal extorsion conduct. why in the world would they do that? and i think the answer lurks in

the fact that they were extremely concerned perhaps as to what was going to come out about sort of another really important issue in this fact pattern, which is how did they obtain these photos in the first place? because, by the way, that may be criminal conduct even more serious than this skeleton extorsion stuff. i mean, that's a serious matter, how they obtained those in the first place. >> do you think the deal is now completely off the snabl could they be prosecuted here? >> again, that's the second part of it. in other words, if you enter a non-pros agreement that says you're not going to engage in any criminal conduct, the prosecutors deem that they have, they could void that agreement. i don't think you're there yet necessarily. at the same time, i'm hearing law enforcement is looking into the matter. the u.s. attorney's office is going to take a look and say, well, wait a minute. did they breach this. crystal ball, i don't think they'll necessarily be prosecuted on the election for that matter. >> then there's the other fascinating angle here.

what do you make of bezos's claim that there could be a saudi connection here? >> that's extremely interesting. i was looking at that and looking at the way people were approaching it. most of the quotes that i saw were, you know, somewhat guarded, not wanting to commit too much to it but at the same time i definitely think you're on to something, phillip. i think that's another reason why, you know, again, we lawyers, it's like sherlock who will ms. we look at something and say, why did this happen? the reality is they must be worried about something. i think your last question sort of highlights that. i'm in no position to comment blornt i think there is a saudi angle or connection. >> still a lot to be shakd out here. we have an affair involving the richest man in the world, saudi connection, the whole political angle. do you go burns, thank you so much for joining us early on sunday morning. >> my pleasure.

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26 minutes past the hour.

a quick programming note. msnbc is live every saturday and sunday at 6:00 a.m. eastern. we hope you can join us. deal or no deal. president trump appears to be bracing for disappointment in the fight over border wall funding. he tweeted, the democrats just don't seem to want border security. if you believe news reports, they are not offering much for the wall. they look to be making this a campaign issue. the wall will get built one way or the other. let's go to nbc's kelly o'donnell at the white house. kelly, what's the latest? >> reporter: good morning, phillip. start the countdown. as efforts to prevent another government shutdown are running out of time. negotiators on capitol hill really need to reach an agreement on funding for border security by tomorrow in order for any deal to become legislation that could pass and reach the president's desk by friday when the current stopgap funding runs out. the president is not backing off his demand for a border wall or barrier. some democrats have said fencing

may be acceptable but not a wall. the president and speaker pelosi are still at odds over a potential solution. tomorrow the president takes his pitch for a wall directly to the u.s./mexico border visiting el paso, texas, for his first campaign rally of 2019. he also made inaccurate claims about el paso's crime statistics during his state of the union address. but president trump will have competition there. former democratic congressman and progressive campaign star batd tow o'rourke and local leaders plan to hold what they call a march for truth as a counter message to the trump visit. phillip? >> that was nbc's kelly o'donnell. kelly, thank you. joining me now, democratic strategist howard franklin and ned ryan ceo of american majority and former writer for president george w. bush. thank you for joining us. howard, we are less than a week away from the shutdown deadline. what kind of deal do we expect the negotiators to strike here?

>> i don't expect a deal that includes the funding for a border wall, at least not in the terms that president trump had described it or imagined it. but i do believe that they will come to some negotiated deal that lets both sides walk away looking like winners and i imagine, you know, especially into the presidential election cycle, it's what the president obviously wants going into 2020. >> ned, if president trump is given a compromise deal here, it seems likely, should he accept it? is he going to try to sell it as a win or is he going to make it an issue for 2020? >> it all depends, phillip, on how much there is for a physical barrier, fencing, whatever you want to call it. i think if there is an acceptable level trump will accept it, move on, democrats will have an opportunity to declare victory. i don't think republican senators have any stomach for a shutdown. on that front of whether there's enough funding for a physical barrier, if there's not, we've

heard talk of a national emergency. i hope trump doesn't do that. i hope he goes for the section 284 authorization for the d.o.d. i think it will be a huge issue in 2020. i don't think there will be a successful conclusion any time soon. it will play a huge role in the 2020 election. >> howard, what do you make of beto o'rourke's rally tomorrow night? >> i definitely think the president has given beto o'rourke more ammunition to fuel his presidential ambitions. it's hard to imagine him leading this march and the attention he's going to get as the counter point to the president and not taking that momentum and translating it into a nascent political presidential realm. if you look at the stakes where the country is heading and the interest from democratic leaders from across the spectrum, this is the best time to jump in. in 2016 we saw 17 fielded

republicans still yielded the white house to the republican party. we saw 10 or 11 in 2008 and still democrats were able to succeed. i think the only thing we're putting to bed here is the idea that a contested primary means that the same party won't win the white house. >> beto does have the ability to raise a lot of money as we've seen. ned, speaking of 2020, senator elizabeth warren, she made her bid official yesterday morning. the trump campaign came out with a statement casting her as dishonest. president trump went after her in another tweet. does this signal he sees her as a serious threat or is he just trolling her? >> i think he's just trolling her. i honestly don't see elizabeth warren getting the traction people thought she would. i think she'll have a lot of problems explaining her past behavior. claiming to be native american, the whole texas bar. i don't think trump sees her as a serious threat. i think he's more trolling her. others will pull off the nomination, not elizabeth

warren. i'm not sure how long her campaign will last. >> senator amy klobuchar is expected to join the already crowded field that we've been talking about. what does she need to do to stand out from the pack? >> that's a great question. you know, the more candidates that decide to jump into this race, the harder it will be both to stand out but also the lower the threshold comes in terms of winning primaries and caucuses. you need fewer and fewer votes to be the majority vote getter. the one thing i will say from where the party is headed is certainly lurching leftward. this is a formative time for the party. we're getting away from more stock in trade. i don't want to call them more conservative but more moderated positions than we've seen in the past several years. we'll see the party reforming itself. it's definitely time having not had a real titular leader for

the last several years. >> let's talk about another tweet. the dems are trying to win an election in 2020 that they know they cannot legitimately win. the idea that they can't legitimately win is false. why would he be claim that go? >> i think there's going to be some of this talk from trump between now and 2020 about issues where he's going to talk about illegal immigration. illegal immigrants, all of that stuff. i would rather he just focus on the issues. i don't think they can legitimately win. i honestly think, phillip, i don't think they can legitimately win if they're going to run on medicare for all. free education. i would agree with howard. i think you're going to see this left ward lurch continue. i am convinced that the nominee of the democratic party will have to have sworn allegiance to all of those issues to be able

to win the issues. i would rather trump focus on those issues because i think that's going to be a great debate for the american people to have on a national level. do they agree with these issues or not? if they don't like them, i think donald trump will get re-elected. we'll see. >> howard, what do you think of that? >> again, too early to say, but i do think this is actually a really healthy process for the party. i do think elevating a new set of leaders, especially a new generation. you see a lot of candidates younger than folks that were standard bearers in the past. i think that's healthy for the party. i thi wenk we'll see the most potent ideas rise to the top. talk about ivanka trump but first it is tax season. kicks off with some unhappy filers and smaller refunds. just how much smaller? we've got some answers next. nsw.

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xarelto. >> starting next month, xarelto will be the first tv ad to include prices. johns johnson&johnson will do the same in all of its tv ads. president trump said all ads should include list prices. a new gallup poll says americans are divided in their outlook on the economy. 41% say it is growing. on the negative side, 39% say it's slowing down. worse yet, 17% say it's in recession or depression. on this valentine's day coming up thursday, it's the thought that counts. a new study finds a great disparity in valentine's spending. on average, men plan to shell out roughly $340 on their partner or spouse. women on the other hand say they'll spend about 64 bucks. like we said, it's the thought that counts. now from matters of the heart to matters of the wallet. millions of taxpayers are submitting their returns for the first time since the new gop tax plan went into effect last year and they're learning they will

either receive a smaller than expected refund or they mayo money to the government. according to the government accountability office 30 million people are expected to owe the irs this tax season, 3 million more than if the law hadn't been changed. ron, thank you for joining us this morning. >> thanks, phillip. >> during the president's state of the union address he taughted this. why are people getting back less money? >> some of us who analyzed this way back when when it was in the proposal stages pointed out it was likely that individuals would foot the bill for a large corporate tax cut, and that appears to be what has happened. the deductions that disappeared, state and local taxes, property tax deductions being reduced may have resulted in more individuals paying more in taxes and also because of the complex changes in the code we've seen withholding by u.s. corporations maybe missed the mark, which is why refunds are down and why some bills may be up. >> the new tax bill also

eliminated a number of popular tax deductions, right? some people are going to end up paying more. >> yeah. you know, going back, it really focuses on the state and local income taxes and property taxes combined. you can now only deduct $10,000 in a given year. used to be that you could deduct the entire expense. if you are in a high tax state whether it's new york, new jersey, california, massachusetts, illinois, you're losing really valuable deductions. it's true that the standard deduction was doubled for each partner and married couple but that may not make up the difference. your tax bill could be bigger. for those who have so-called pass through entities, limited liability companies and the like, they may find themselves paying more this year than the past. >> help us out here, what can we do to avoid the same trouble next year? >> nothing. >> really? >> really. you can't just make up deductions that aren't allowed by the internal revenue service. what's interesting here is because of the budget law that

required the deficit not increase by more than $1.5 trillion over a ten year period, in 2025 the individual component of this tax law reverts to 2016 levels. all those deductions come back. so we're going to have to wait six years, but in the meantime effectively you don't have those deductio deductions. hopefully your company will have figured out the withholding schedules a little better this year than next year. you're paid in appropriately. not much is going to change in the next couple of years. individual tax sz in states are going to be up. >> many of us are about to find that out. i want to ask you about senator elizabeth warren. she kicked off her presidential campaign. her financial platform, it includes a wealth tax on those with assets over $50 million. college campuses and breaking up know nop polys. non-starter as far as wall street is concerned. i think those would argue that the planks of the progressive

platform would be turned down. part of it for i think reasonable assessment that there could be economic damage done. you know, we didn't get comprehensive tax reform under the trump administration. what we got was individuals footing the bill for a corporate tax cut. that's what we just talked about in terms of paying higher taxes. wealth taxes and some of the other proposal of the progressives are putting forth could be damaging to the economy. there needs to be a middle ground that takes a look at the economy where it is, how to make major adjustments to entitlement programs and the like. i don't mean that in a negative sense. really, some of the wealth taxes, higher marginal tax rates probably won't promote growth. they may help fund other programs that progressives are talking about, but they may not be the type of thing that would kick the economy into a higher ge gear. >> thank you, sir.

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the biggest controversies surrounding her and her family. take a look at some of her responses to questions sparked by the mueller investigation. >> the moscow project in russia. >> the trump tower. i've learned a lot more about it watching the news. >> but you did have a role on this. what was it? >> literally almost nothing. >> are you concerned about anyone in your life that you love being involved? >> i'm not. i'm really not. you mentioned the moss cue example. that's a perfect example. there's nothing there. >> look who's back with us. howard franklin, ned ryan. thanks for sticking around. do you buy that she's not concerned about the mueller probe? >> not at all, but i also don't expect her to say, of course, anything other than i'm not concerned. you look at this white house, right? investigations around collusion with foreign powers potentially, obviously now we're looking at -- now we're talking about

the inauguration committee and this is all before we actually gave or seated a democratically elected congress that has the power of subpoena and can open other investigations. the buzz word for the next two years will be investigation and this will be non-stop, a drip that will keep journalists continually working but also democrats giddy at the prospect of trump being stymied. >> ned, i heard you chuckle. is this ivanka putting on a positive face? >> well, first of all, no, i don't. i've never thought -- i told stephanie wool almost two years ago i thought the russian collusion was a whole fairy tale. did russia attempt to medal? of course they did. but i was chuckling because i totally agreed with howard. the next two years are going to be nothing but investigation, nonstop. i think the trump white house needs to gear up a little bit more with its legal team because

i think it is going to be nonstop for the next two years. investigation, not legislation will be nonstop. i think it will make their lives pretty problematic leading into the 2020 election. i hope they have geared up correctly geared up correctly, because strap it on. if you thought the previous two years were crazy, phillip, wait for the next two. >> can't wrap my head around that will be like. she also spoke about security clearances. >> there were some issues early on, and there are a lot of people that question whether you were given special treatment by the president, overriding other -- >> absolutely not. >> -- officials. can you speak to that? >> there were anonymous leaks about there being issues, but the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance, zero. >> what were the problems early on? >> there weren't any, other than a back log that exists of close to a million clearances across government. >> this does not line up with nbc news reporting which found that officials rejected jared

kushner for top-secret security clearance but were overruled by a supervisor. howard, how do you make sense of that? >> it's hard to make sense of it. i'm not sure that the trump white house has gotten its story straight just yet, and maybe it won't. i think the issue here is obviously mixing the business of politics with the familio, and i think it's going to be a difficult thing to explain. i think hopefully, both for the american people and for the trump white house and his family, hopefully see the trump children maybe recede from the spotlight. i think we've already seen jared step down from a couple of the roles he was initially given when the white house first got going. it would be great to see some professionals who spent time in these roles taking on some of these jobs and maybe righting the ship to some degree. >> matt, what do you think about that clearance issue? >> i've always had an issue on the lines of nepotism. republicans would have had a problem if chelsea clinton was in there, if there had been a

clinton white house with a senior white house adviser, and i think a lot of us on this side have an issue with family members being in there as senior advisers. this has always been one of my sticking points with the trump white house. love donald trump, love his issues and policies. i think this has always been an achilles' heel. i don't think jared and ivanka are simpatico with a lot of the trump issues, so this is one i agree with and think they may recede to the point of going back to manhattan. i don't think a lot of the trump base would have a problem with that at all. >> let's shift issues for a moment. there is growing scrutiny of the inaugural committee. this past week, federal prosecutors issued a subpoena for documents from the committee on donors and spending. "vanity fair" reported on conversations between cohen and melanie walk-off, where she detailed how money was spent, the general chaos of the process as well as involvement of

trump's adult children as well as two men in charge of the committee, rick gates and tom b barrack. >> we'll have to see if this is another continuation of people being upset about the 2016 election results. i'm done with that. however, i'm all about transparency and accountability. if there were some people that were doing things that were wrong, of course i want to see them brought to justice. i think the bigger issue, when i saw some of those reports, again, it's this continuing issue in washington, d.c., for both republicans and democrats, this foreign money that comes into washington, d.c. and again, people are not transparent about it. so this is one of my big issues. again, if you're seeing saudi arabia or qatar or all of these other foreign influencers spending a lot of money in d.c. but nobody's claiming credit for it and there's not transparency, either republican or democrat, we have to stop that. this is one of my biggest frustrations. i've been in d.c. for 20 years. nobody wants to claim responsibility for the foreign influence, and yet, they're more than willing to accept millions

and millions of dollars. so again, it's across the board for me, republican and democrat. let's bring it all to the forefront. let's have transparency. >> there's no shortage of issues there, but howard, i want to go back to the inaugural committee. is this something the trump administration should be worried about? >> i think absolutely there is a worry there. $40 million disappeared. that's a significant sum of money. i think we're right to be worried and concerned about foreign influence, and i think really the bigger question here is how do all these investigations, how are they going to derail or support what trump tries to do for the next two years as he gears up for re-election and also tries to run a white house that is clearly run off the rails? i don't want to dismiss it out of hand and say the president won't have any culpability, and obviously, we'll find out more, but $40 million just disappearing certainly would not be an issue that republicans would let go of if there was a democrat in the white house. >> howard, let's turn to the turmoil in virginia. a poll by the "washington post"

and george mason university in virginia found virginians are split over whether governor northam should step down, but 58% of african-americans say he should not resign. how do you interpret the poll, given that 87% of black voters supported governor northam? >> i think some of this is political expediency, realizing that a number of the constitutional officers who have been elected to lead the state are in peril. and if you see one step down, maybe the others. and we do see the state transition back to republican leadership. but i also think that northam has been smart, especially on the issue of using the remaining part of his term to focus on racial equity as an issue. i don't think we've ever seen a democratic or a white, male governor, you know, so boldly take on this set of issues and i think maybe this is smart politics on his part and maybe it will actually end up saving the remainder of his term. as you guys know, the term limits in virginia only allow

for a single four-year term, so maybe this may actually work in his favor. >> ned, how do you think things shake out there in virginia? >> well, i've got to tell you, i kind of hope none of them resign. i hope all of them, northam, herring, and fairfax, stay in. because again, we have off-year elections here in virginia, and i believe all of the state senators are up for re-election this fall. and the most important thing about that, phillip, is those state senators will be in charge of redistricting when it happens post 2020. so in some ways, i'm sitting here going, i hope they don't resign, i hope they pay for these consequences in the fall elections here in virginia. but i've got to tell you, great irony to me in all of this, you've got northam and herring, again, who admitted -- again with northam, we don't know if it was blackface or ku klux klan. they've admitted to this. and now justin fairfax i think is most at risk of stepping down. it could be totally ironic. >> a week ago, we could not have expected something like this. maybe next week will offer some

clues as to what's going to shake out in virginia. howard franklin, ned ryan, thank you both for joining us this morning. >> thanks, phillip. >> all right. it's been called the most inexplicable moment from matthew whitaker's testimony on capitol hill. alex witt will talk to the congresswoman who asked whitaker the question that is raising more questions this morning. the question that is raising more questions this morning.

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that will do it for me this hour. i'm phillip mena. thank you for