that's enough for me at this hour. see you all again at noon eastern. it's up with david gura. >> this is "up" on david gura. more pressure on virginia's lieutenant-governor to step down. two women who accused him of sexual assault now say they would testify in impeachment proceedings. today, fairfax maintains he is innocent. >> we will have our say and i am confident. >> lawrence, massachusetts, democratic senator, elizabeth warren makes it official. >> i am in this fight all the way! >> she scheduled nine campaign events in 10 days, the campaign trail getting more and more crowded. one thing the democrats are talking about is the green new deal.

>> for history, it's standing up and saying, look, humanity is in crisis, america is going to be the light and the hope. >> february 10th. the tries in the commonwealth of virginia continue, there is a lot of focus on the line of succession there. >> at this point, maybe virginia should take a cue from the oscars and just go without a governor this year. or come full circle and make it governor kevin hart. >> on this hour, attorney a. scott bolden, and kathryn ward is with me editor and chief of reason magazine and senior reporter for real vision and the host of standup on sirius. i want to start with the report on virginia. the two women who accused the wealth governor of sexual assault said they would testify in impeachment proceedings should he refuse to step down

from office in statements from their attorneys. fairfax continues to deny the allegations and he has asked for an investigation. in a new statement he asks no one rush to judgment. and that he wants the public and his accusers be respected during the process. this taking place as the governor and attorney general herring face crisis of their own. the photo in a yearbook. the governor says he wants to spend the rest of his term focusing on racial equality. in a new poll, virginia residents are split over what they think should happen to the governor. 47% of those surveyed say he schild step down and 47% say he should stay on. let me start with you. i know you were a sex crimes prosecutor in the past before you got into your current line of work. a statement from justin fairfax, i say again without reservation, i did not sexually assault or

rape meredith watson, vanessa tyson or anyone else. i knew at the time this would be the most difficult of times. he calls for an investigation even though they don't have jurisdiction in these issues. what should happen if he gets what he wants? >> the women have lawyered up and he has lawyered up. he's right to ask for investigation. and the house will take it up in impeachment proceedings interesting because i don't think you can make out an impeachment process based on these alone. these two women have not made allegations or filed complaints in either jurisdiction and are within the statute of limitations in both states. they're investigating themselves, they should have done before they ran for office. they're investigating themselves and putting their case together politically and legally.

in the end, it's her word against his word because there aren't any direct witnesses. you build out from that secondary witnesses, one young woman told, you have to assess the credibility of it and determine what the political outcome will be. we don't know that. >> on the political outcome, kathryn, i'll turn you to. we have the interview given to the post, shuttling in tunnels doesn't want to be seen. he's reading "roots" and reparations for african-americans in this country. what do you make of him, him declaring he doesn't intend to leave and said to the virginia staff as well and wants to spend the rest focusing on race. >> people use the phrase "crisis pr," something bad is what you see happening in virginia when

people don't hire crisis pr to help them out. it's not the thing to do when you're in the middle of a race scandal, i'm reading "roots." it's pretty long. the unfortunate thing is mostly people are choosing sides on this for partisan reasons. i think you see that in the poll you just showed. about half of virginia is democrat and republican and i would guess those fall out neatly on resign and not resign. there's designated survivor, if the guy at the end is a democrat, maybe they're ready to see him fall but not sure of that. because virginians are insane, they're not sure. >> on the insanity. the amount of signatories on statements asking for resignation of these three men in high power positions gets longer and longer. how surprised are you -- it's been a week but feels like -- >> always feels like a year these days.

i'm not that surprised because i feel like president donald trump has very much changed what is considered a political scandal and isn't these days. we have somebody occupying the white house who has multiple allegations of sexual assault against him and he's still there. same thing with racist statements the president is still making, if you look at this tweet he put out mentioning elizabeth warren, lightheartedly the trail of tears. >> in all caps. >> in all caps. that really sets the standard. governor northam is free to sit it out and say, i'm not going anywhere. that's the standard we have in the country. >> is that true about him, he says he's reading "roots"? >> yes. >> i would say, welcome to 2016. >> reading the book -- >> the mini series is better, right? >> long. >> might i suggest martin luther

king jr.'s, i'm a standup radio host, you can't say, i'm looking into race theory now. it's too late. inappropriate. you can't go on a redemption tour now. these are types of things you as a politician. these are distinctions that must be made by the viewers and listeners and american people. we're not talking about mechanic or airline pilot. governor. with brett kavanaugh, judge for life. that guy will be on the supreme court looking like the emperor from emperor strikes back. that's why it matters if you're fairfax for northam, governor. we need to look back at what we've done in different situation, halloween. it's different when you're a teacher or moral leader. these guys should be held by a

different standard. >> if i may, why don't you tell us how you really feel? >> it's. >> tyron: s. >> tyron it's tiresome. >> 58% say they don't want him to resign. it's interesting but disappointing. if all three go, the republicans get the seats of power. the other thing interesting, i've been talking to business leaders on the ground in richmond, another thing going on, business leaders, black-and-white think northam, they're in a better position to control northam, get more out of northam as a wounded democratic governor versus if he wasn't in the scandal. if he goes, whether it's fairfax or herring or the republicans, that's an unknown quantity. there's a lot of self-inducement

and grandicement. >> there's a big difference between wearing black face and medicare expansion. there should be a difference between the horrible things we say and do versus the actual policy. it's been rich and hypocritical watching republicans call for him to stand down with donald trump and everybody else. >> and at the same time, we're having a conversation about due process. it's amazing how being accused of something will bring to the fore, a deep and abiding desire for due process. >> the reason often these women don't come forward, they won't get due process. >> both parties, in theory, there should be a baseline condition where there is due process and ask for everyone to adhere to the standards of law.

that isn't how the discussions of me too accusations has always gone and in this case, the black face scandals obviously are -- i don't know we need to carefully litigate those, we have the photos. the difference between kevin spacey and bill cosby and a governor and a president, there needs to be a distinction. >> there's a legal layer and political layer and cultural layer as well. you looking through this poll and buried deep down there was a question about black face. i was startled perhaps unreasonably. 11% of residents in the state of virginia have either worn black face or know someone who has. 2019, that was the result of that polling. >> i haven't seen that yet. can you be startled or should you not be, is the entire point, the truth is that racism is very deep-seated in our society. we see instances all over and

shocking but not that shocking because we haven't come all that far. when the first wave of me too scandals came out, a lot of men said, who knew this was happening around us and women said -- >> obviously, this is happening around us. maybe it's time to have that same conversation about race. >> let me say this. virginia is not blue yet. virginia has a tortured history with race, racism, confederate state. and the northern part is very blue and the leadership comes from the northern part. there is a southern part in the '80s, '90s now, that poll, they may not endorse it. people that don't look like me oppose racism, right. at the same time, not that number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 on that list are what affects them on a

day-to-day basis opposed to people of color who live it and are reminded of it everyday, whether they make themselves a victim or achieve and ignore it or protest it, it's very different. the challenge is the new south virginia is still dealing with the old south virginia and its confederacy history and tortured past. >> we don't want to let anybody off the hook, at the same time, whatever that 11% statistic is, there can be a level of ignorance and there is a level of ignorance in america, you may be paying homage to a black person. maybe in november 80s you dressed up in a black leather suit and went to a halloween party because you're a huge eddie murphy fan. the important thing that is happening now, i didn't do that because i knew it was wrong. if anybody that doesn't know the horrific history of black face, you should look into it. >> read "roots." >> you should have already

known. >> if you don't look like me and you've been around that and tolerated that, you didn't protest that, you say i oppose racism, you can't have it both ways. you can't have an environment all white and do these types of things and say, that's a buddy of mine and my friends and i don't support that but you participate by being part of that audience. >> one thing we have to acknowledge, it bleeds into our political culture in ways that aren't as overt as appearing in black face, taking a picture of it. in the '90s, super predators the clintons even espoused, those are all approaches rhetorically, codes that do apply to racial elements in occupier society and still happening now within the republican party. that kind of acceptance is still happening. >> why? why? >> because we haven't acknowledged it. >> intergenerational racism

continues to exist. you're not born with a racist gene, i'm not born with one. environmentally, parents and families are teaching it and you have generations of it and that has to stop. >> obviously, we haven't acknowledged it. in america, we have not -- we have confederate statutes up. >> we have not had it. we won't get past it until we have those. >> in germany, they have the concentration camp and museums, brazil acknowledged their sin of slavery. america right now hat confederate statutes up. not walls, commemorations of our sinful pasts. that's what we need to acknowledge to have that history to start with. >> america wants to move on without reconciling the history. you can't move on until you do. >> six days until another possible government shutdown and with the border wall at the center of the debate, will anyone give in and keep the lights on? eep the lights on? ♪

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welcome back. the federal government will run out of funding on friday. an open question is will president trump accept a deal from congress? house majority leader steny hoyer says negotiators are optimistic there could be an agreement monday. there continues to be a divide between the president and democrats if you look at the public statements. democrats reportedly open to 2 billion for border security, far less than the $5 billion plus

the president has demanded. house speaker nancy pelosi has stood firm on there being no wall but open to some type of fortification. acting chief of staff, nimick mulvaney is adamant congress want back down. >> if cog won't move to it, we will move to a pot and then another. >> the president continuing to make false statements about immigration. here's what he said during the state of the union. >> i want people to come into our country in the largest numbers ever. working class americans are left to pay the price for mass illegal immigration, increased crime.

and a depleted social safety net. >> kathryn, i want to start with you. we heard from mick mulvaney there who has three or four jobs in this administration but putting on the hat of the existing budget to do this, at the president's behest. your sense of where things stand, you're based in d.c. there is optimism at one end of pennsylvania and a lot of criticism the other end of pennsylvania. >> my inclination is to talk about the policy. i think it's important to be clear what the wall could and couldn't do, if it's a see through barrier, like a phalanx of unicorrespondence, in fact, that doesn't matter at all. that is zero% relevant we saw during the state of the union. the fact set trump is offering is almost completely detached what a wall could or should actually do. i think the green eye shade stuff, ile with find $5 under

the sofa and it will pay for the wall is still unfortunately cover for partisan posturing and if the government stays open, if they do manage to find a way through, it won't have anything at all to do with whether a wall is good policy which is unfortunate because a debate how we handle influx of immigrants at the southern border is important but we're not having it. >> on monday there will be a reli in el paso and with o'rourke. notice the president is not on capitol hill much or no indication he will be to work with congress on this. how optimistic are you this will be hashed out by the end of the week or are we facing another shutdown. >> looks that way that the president hasn't learned any lessons from the first government shutdown and will not put money towards a wall. i think if nancy pelosi make s

any concessions, politically wouldn't look good but goes against the ethical policy, trying to look for facts or any type of proof as to whether or not a wall would be effective. you know who else doesn't spend a lot of time on capitol hill, secretary nielson had to nearly be subpoenaed, threatened with a subpoena before going to testify before congress. i think dhs has a lot of questions to answer especially when it comes to family separation policy and members of the administration won't acknowledge exist, says there was no policy acceof separation. i don't think dhs should get more funding until they acknowledge what they've been doing to families and children. >> does moving from the concrete wall, steel slats, maybe unicorn horns are next. does it seem less and less likely?

>> yes. i think behind the scene, stop talking about trump for a second, talk about mitch mcconnell. it's really about mitch mcconnell, if he thinks any senator is going to lose his or her seat over another government shutdown, he will override it and get all the senators to vote because he can't override a veto on this. you look at a state of the union this week and talk about immigration and read the great journalism from the "washington post" and "new york times," the man built his golf courses on undocumented people or i should say undocumented people built his golf courses. they've been profiled. we've seen them in pictures and interviews. most came here illegally and stayed illegally. he paid them gladly. when he's up there talking about any issue it's important to understand how much money they made him and he doesn't care. >> that's true. you need credibility when you go

to the negotiation table. i've settled hundreds of criminal and civil cases. donald trump doesn't have any credibility. nielsen doesn't want to go to the hill because they will ask her what the president says. you want the wall. democrats have a lot of different positions but resolute on the wall because it is an ineffective. when you're negotiating on somebody who lacks credibility, unmovable, democrats hold all the calls political-wise anthropology-wise, a day of reckoning is coming. >> you bring back up matt whittaker this week and washington asking him how well the department is able to keep track of these kids separated from the family and unable to say that. >> because they don't have a mechanism to do so. >> that's why it's super important dems are doing oversight and we saw the tough

questions with whittaker they're not able to answer these questions because they lack credibility. when we come back, nato allies are worried and is there anyone to stop the president from withdrawing from nato. next. next gotta make stuff harder. ♪ there, that's hard. ♪ there's brushing...and there's oral-b power brushing. oral-b just cleans better. even my hygienist said going electric could lead to way cleaner teeth. and unlike sonicare, oral-b is the first electric toothbrush brand accepted by the ada. oral-b. brush like a pro.

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nato allies. former secretary james mattis had hoped to be at that meeting. in his resignation letter he said he planned to step down at the end of february to make sure the department's interests are included at every event, including posture hearings and defense ministerial. the president did not agree to that and there are new commitments to the nato allies. >> ifmo montenegro is attacked, should the united states vote to defend montenegro? >> americans should work doing their fair share. >> american soldiers would go to defense montenegro? >> i won't get into hypotheticals what may happen. >> centrdefense is central to w

nato is. now a professor in ohio, let me ask you how you reacted to that from martha maccallum, the use of that article to talk about article v? >> i think when he answered that question and refused to give a clear answer it diluted the american commitment to nato. deterrence against russia and putin is predicated upon american strength. the absolute concrete assurance we would come to the defense of our allies, should russia attack our smaller allies in europe just as they came to our defense on 9/11. i was the american ambassador on 9/11, all our allies came and pledged to defend us against ag and all there fighting with us 17 years later. >> i read a little bit about that letter of resignation from secretary of defense, james

mattis and an ardent supporter of nato and what it stands for. how worried are you now that he is out of the picture? >> i'm very worried. harvard is issuing a report, former ambassador essentially saying this is a real-time of testing for the united states. the president has been unclear with our allies whether we're staying in syria or leaving, unclear about afghanistan. we've left the intermediate nuclear forces treaty. and the president has also been arguably the weakest american president in the last 70 years dealing with the russia threat, so weak standing up to president putin, allies are questioning american leadership. they're talking about could they provide their own defense? and very sour on the united states and the president has

openly been ambivalent whether he would defend our allies on attacks. i can't remember a time america has been so weak aincnd indecis on this alliance. >> obviously the world has changed since nato's inception and we are now in increasingly different world. what is the primary purpose of nato today? >> to make sure the democratic countries of north america and europe are banded together to protect ourselves and we do that through our combine military strength. putin is still an aggressor and it's in the interests of to the united states to deter putin through an alliance. we have major threats from terrorism. it was nato that banded together to help us fight the taliban and al qaeda. it was nato that helped us fight

the islamic state. nato helped stabilize kosovo and bosnia. think about it, the united states forces in europe are a continent close we are the middle east is, in the horn of africa because we have access to ramstein air force base in germany and air force base in italy and greece. if you didn't have it now in 2019, you would want to recreate it. it's the force multiplier in the united states, the difference, they don't have allies, we do. >> you saw the u.s. withdraw from the inf treaty. what does that say to you about the dynamics of the u.s. and russia at this point, you have both countries backing out of that deal? >> first, i'd like to say russia is the aggressor here and russia violated the terms of the

agreement and the united states has been right to call them on that. we've come to a point the president has been so lackluster in his leadership, congress needs to be a blocking force and pass legislation this year that says they make the decision if we alter our relationship with nato, not the president who has mused about taking us out of nato however improbable that seems. >> thank you for joining us and we look forward to your report. she is the star of house democrats and on one issue successfully moved her presidential party candidates to the left. is the new green deal what republicans call the green dream a pipe dream. next. pipe dream next e who delivers the news around here. ♪ liberty mutual has just announced that they can customize your car insurance

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climate change and our environmental challenges are one of the biggest extensional threats to our way of life. in order for us to combat that threat we must be as ambitious and innovative in our solution as possible. >> that was congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez introducing a green new deal, surrounded around lofty new goals. achieve net zero greenhouse emissions. invest in infrastructure and

industry. secure clean air and water and promote justice and equality. at least six democratic hopefuls say they support the deal but house speaker nancy pelosi reaction has been lukewarm. >> i haven't seen it but it's enthusiastic and we welcome all enthusiasts out there. >> one of president trump's favorite channels. >> this green new deal will destroy our economy as we know it. turn back the clock and take us back to another century. >> she wants to change the way you heat your home, cook your food. >> this utopian horror. >> bad news for cows, time to slaughter all of them quickly because of their propensity for gas. >> because of what they do to the environment. >> bovine flatulence. i can't believe i'm saying this. aka cows farting.

these emissions from cows are a concern to the left. >> i will raise a toast to the fox graphics department for that. >> calling the green new deal brilliant, the question is, is the green new deal a non-starter or starting point? scott, let me turn to you first. here we have it, 14 pages, flip through it. i won't test you on it. let me read a few items from that framework. upgrade all existing buildings for energy efficiency. work with farmers to eliminate pollution. high quality healthcare for americans. how lofty are these lofty goals? >> super lofty. the one thing you didn't say is all of this should happen in 10 years. you have to start somewhere and do something to reducing

emissions. the problem in the house is nancy pelosi is trying to protect her people in swing states in districts that may be 50-50, 51-49 of republicans and democrats. republicans aren't going to like this because they don't think it's realistic. it will take more time than 10 years. the beauty of this green dream or green deal, it's out there, like a non-binding resolution, like a sense of congress and the senate. i think it's a good thing. is it realistic? no. do we have to do something? yes. but it will take 30 to 40 years to do it all. >> the key thing here is i haven't had time to read it. >> maybe during the break. >> she's busy. nancy pelosi has a lot of stuff to do. i am deeply skeptical of the prospects for and advisability. >> there are no dollar signs after this.

>> there are no dollar signs but a trillion after this. this is a question when ocasio-cortez has cleaned when people asked how will you pay for it and essentially says, print more money, that's not a good answer. upgrade all the buildings or replace all the airplanes is, you know, i understand the goal here is to change the debate and open the overton window and change the way we're thinking about all these things. you do need to start with something theoretically possible. >> we have it codified, does it make a difference -- >> god knows the entire news cycle has been consumed when there are other things to talk about. i do think it is wildly unlikely that document results in change in the world in any kind of direct way. >> i disagree. i would just say, i don't think you were hyperbolic enough about

republicans not liking this. they don't believe there's a problem. let's be clear. they're in denial about the science because the president of the united states is a conspiracy theorist and so many of them are as well. there is a problem. we should be talking about this. it's far too late to be talking about this. i'm psyched we're debating this problem and talking about the solution. >> global warming isn't real and the green new deal is everything, it's all -- the whole debate. >> let's have a debate about what we can get done. in a country -- the "green new deal" is named after the "new deal." pundits saying we should not ramp up war efforts in world war ii and we shouldn't go to the moon. this country has done great things. we're very divided right now and it's very difficult. what costs more is the damage of climate change and forced migration -- >> when you say it will cost

millions, trillions of dollars, right? are you talking about it will cost the public treasury millions and trillions of dollars or private partnership -- >> je. people will make money. yes. it's a huge contrast. the private sector has to pay. >> hold on. >> those funds wouldn't have been used in some other way. >> talking about the private sector. if the congress passes laws and the president signs it, right, it will put these requirements on the private sector, right? what we're not talking about is the impact it will have and some of these moneys, some of them, will be available from the private sector who have to make these changes. >> it's wild to me again we're focusing clearly doesn't have that much detail in it, no dollar signs, just about having the conversation. any kind of attitude i see of

derision towards it or apocalyptic. what's absurd to me, what's crazier, doing nothing about climate change, what people in congress have been doing for decades or alexandria ocasio-cortez in her first month talking about it. we don't think it's crazy to be in war forever or be what that costs, or putting the entire planet at risk seems absurd to everyone. >> this is being considered in the context of economics. i think republicans are happy to have this conversation and democrats are realizing it might be useful to have that conversation as well. is the conversation advancing because of this? >> i think it's a false dichotomy to say, either we're not talking about the problems of global warming or have to talk about the "green new deal," while republicans are talking about the cost to the u.s. treasury, it costs to implement this, i'm more concerned about

costs to the economy, to meeting "green new deal" requirements or something similar. >> what about wildfire requirements in california? we live in a nation dis incentivizing clean energy. i know you think the government doesn't make choices, i do,i think government should choose renewable features. we are incentivizing fossil pumping fuel. >> your alternative, then we'll go -- >> what's your alternative? >> i will eat a donut. >> i'm not even going to get 11 pages to give my alternative. one thing you see is the u.s. carbon outputs have leveled off and in some cases declined and economic growth is a great way to innovate our way out of these

climate problems. we should support these other countries to get where we are. >> too late. not enough time. >> that does that. in part, that does that. that hr resolution does that. that part you named does that, doesn't it? >> i think we're out of time. >> with his domestic agenda on ice, the president is heading abroad, reigniting talks with kim jong-un and looking for a win. trump-kim 2.0 in han notice next. ne xt to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪

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president trump announcing on twitter friday his second summit with kim jong-un will be in hanoi at the end of the month. the president writing, i look forward to seeing chairman kim and advancing the cause of peace. the president touted what he says has been accomplished since his first summit in singapore. >> our hostages have come home. nuclear testing has stopped. and there has not been a missile launch in more than 15 months. if i had not been elected president of the united states, we would right now, in my opinion, be in a major war with north korea. >> in his opinion. the president is right that north korea has not launched a missile in 15 months. but listen to what the director of national intelligence had to say last month about the threat

from north korea. >> north korea will seek to retain its wmd capabilities, because its leaders ultimately view nuclear weapons as critical to regime survival. >> i will start with that incredible counter-factual. if he had not been elected president, we would be in a major war with north korea. >> i feel so relieved. don't you? >> many months since that summit. what has changed? what we learned from the state department after that twin is he went to seoul, he went to pyongyang and they had a conversation and agreed to meet again in advance of the second summit. there's a lack of substance that's come since that summit. >> you are very right. there's been a complete lack of substance. overall, i think it's very important that we engage with countries, with leaders all over the world. that's the only way that any

type of global diplomacy is going to work, if countries actually engage with each other. but you have to also be completely aware that you are not always going to meet good faith actors every step of the way. that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have negotiations and have some type of a deal. for example, us pulling out of the inf treaty. at the end of the day, russia might also be a bad faith actor. instead, what we are moving towards is a complete new buildup of an arms race. i don't think that's bringing the worltd anywhed anywhere clo stability. that's my take on it. >> you do something and what's the ramification? in the context of this, you've got the president tweeting out that we're going to see an economic superpower. >> they will build resorts on the north korean beaches. >> trump resorts. >> we will be building it for them. >> i would reframe -- usually the question is substance in the

negotiations. most of us look at it from the american point of view. what we want them to do is get rid of their nuclear weapons. if you look at it from a north korean point of view, there's a tremendous amount of substance. this man was able to do what his father and grandfather were unable to do, to meet the president twice on the world stage in north korea. he has been elevated beyond what he could ever have dreamt of. what he is looking for is fame. he is looking for credibility from his people. he is sitting at the table with the president of the united states. there's a reason why no american president ever did that before. they didn't want to give him -- what he wants is a meeting with the president. what we want is them to denuclearize. they got more than what they could dream of. >> i actually think you are right that the engagement piece of this actually is good. as with so much donald trump's foreign policy, he is sort of sometimes looking in the right direction, but it almost feels random. like he was glancing. >> because it is. >> in fact, i think he has taken

a lot of flak from the foreign policy establishment for his announcement we would be drawing down forces from some of our engagements abroad. he is also gone back and forth on that. it's not clear what the rationale is. there's a good case for engagement in the world, with leaders. i'm old enough to remember when barack obama got in trouble for saying he would do meetings like this. at the same time, the outcome of this particular meeting does not strike me as an actually effective way to maximize peace. >> last word to you. >> what is the u.s. getting? this borders on the nonsensical. we keep giving kim a platform. i'm not worried about what they do whether they meet. i'm worried about what they do in between meetings. have they identified the nuclear warheads? have they identified the location? have they identified how much? you can't have a denuclearization program and negotiations if you don't identify those top three or four things as a good faith commitment that i'm going to

denuclearize in exchange for being an economic superpower. until those substantive discussions take place, this is all pomp, circumstance and pageantry. we know the president likes that most. >> you are saying politics is just showmanship? >> yes. disappointing but true. >> thanks to all of you for joining me here. you can keep up with "up" on msnbc. he is making way. next hour, virginia's governor -- >> that's 10,000 calories. >> take the oranges, too. we will go back to virginia. the latest on the commonwealth. h that rocking chair would look great in our new house. ahh, new house, eh? well, you should definitely see how geico could help you save on homeowners insurance. nice tip. i'll give you two bucks for the chair. two?! that's a victorian antique! all right, how much for the recliner, then? wait wait... how did that get out here?

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welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. dueling rallies set to take place tomorrow in el paso, texas. president trump planning to hold his rally at the el paso county coliseum, just a mile away another rally features beto o'rourke. the president is coming to el paso monday. he will promise a wall and will repeat his lies about the dangers that immigrants pose

with el paso as the background. he will claim this city of immigrants was dangerous before a border fence was built here in 2008. that claim is something the president heard from texas attorney general ken paxton during a recent trip to the southern border. >> el paso used to have one of the highest crime rates in america. after that fence went up, the crime rates in el paso are now some of the lowest in the country. we know it works. >> that claim found its way into president trump's state of the union address. he used it to bolster his argument for a border wall. >> el paso, texas, used to have extremely high rates of violent crime. one of the highest in the entire country. >> el paso times says that is not true using this chart to show that from 2006 to 2011, two years before the fence was built to two years after, the violent crime rate increased by 17%. even current el paso mayor fact

checking the president. congressional negotiators are optimistic about a deal to avoid a shutdown. the big question remains, would the president agree to that deal? joining me, kristina beltrone, he wi ellie misdral and dralena maxwell. she's an msnbc political analyst. kristina, let me start with you. this is a narrative the president has seized on. as i say, i suspect we will hear it when he goes down there tomorrow. >> we know the song. it's a criminalizing account. it's going to be an attack on migrants. what struck me was if people should really read beto o's

remarks. he is doing the work of describing border issues coherently and smartly. i think the really interesting issue is that open borders for the trump administration -- he will call democrats open border democrats again. it's important to realize this, open borders means anything that isn't just about pain and punishment and peopnalization. if you have anything that relates to the rule of law, that's open borders for the republicans. that's what's going to make compromise so difficult. for them, anything that isn't simply about increasing suffering is open borders. that's what the border is supposed to be, the site of pain and penalization. >> he painted this to my eyes as a fevered dream of liberal intellect you' intellectuals where there isn't borders. >> i think it galvanizes his base. it pumps those people up. there's 60% to 70% of the

country who are appalled by it. that's what beto understands. he is willing to stand in a non-defensive solidarity with immigrants. he stands with immigrants and he is not defensive about it. he believes an argument about it. he's not doing what democrats do which is being anxious about being too pro-immigrant. that's an interesting stance to take. crime there is not a problem. you will have border politicians speaking out and saying, this is a really lovely place to live that's a really important part of america. you need to stop criminalizing not just migrants but the communities that we inhabit. >> how important is it to have that one rally and the another a mile away? >> it's important because you have to start standing up to the rhetoric and arguments from donald trump. he is wrong. he has always been wrong. there are no facts for what he is saying. it's important for democrats to stand up. you are right that what democrats normally do is pretend

there is a crisis at the border, but we're going to fix it with drones as opposed to sleet slats. it's important for democrats to say there isn't a crisis. bigger border policies don't work. this reminds me of the stop and frisk debate. stop and frisk, that stops crime. bill de blasio takes it away. it doesn't work. beto stands up right against him is important. i think other democrats standing up to say, we don't have a crisis here. if we did, the way to fix it is not with a wall is extremely important. >> it's not just politicians who are saying we don't have a crisis -- i'm the national security reporter. all the heads of the major intelligence agencies got up there. this did not come up as one of the leading threats facing the nation. there was a mention of it in the

written assessment but not as a major threat. donald trump is not addressing the threats that those guys raise which is china, iran, russia. he is focusing on this. we have never seen disinformation like this coming out of the oval office. >> that's astounding. you sat there. you watched the whole thing. that's the takeaway from the hearing. and yet his rhetoric hasn't changed and the administration's posture hasn't changed. >> when has he listened on anything? this goes to his pandering on the base. he made a political calculation that pandering to the racists in his base is the way he is going to win re-election. everything he is doing feeds that. i think that the steven millers and steve bannons, we can assume that they are probably still in touch and n some way. >> the stevens. >> basing your policy in white nationalism is something that we need to continually call out. there's actually violent ends when you are putting forth this

kind of rhetoric. this riles up a particular segment of the american population that then commits hate crimes potentially. this is a dangerous moment for national security reasons beyond the fact that donald trump doesn't read or listen to any of the intelligence experts. >> it's a toxic language. it doesn't have any aspirational idea of citizenship, what we can do together. citizenship is valuable because of what we can do to people below us. it's all about going downward on non-citizens and making their lives worse as opposed to making american lives better. it's always about looking downward and aiming at doing harsher things to them so you feel good because others are suffering more than you. >> there's the fundamental lie about who is crossing the border. he is calling them illegal immigrants. nobody is illegal. i'm sick of that word. second of all, he will say he wants legal immigration. but a lot of the people who are trying to make this crossing are trying to do it legally. they keep -- this came up a lot

in the state of the union. i want a big world of legal -- what he doesn't seem to understand is that people seeking asylum are legally doing so. that's actually how you are supposed to seek asylum. there are human rights laws that say that's how you are supposed to seek asylum. these are legal people, these are people trying to enter the country legally by trying to split and what he is doing is split the population even amongst people who are immigrants themselves between, my parents did it the right way and their parent are doing it -- it's not about that. there are so many people who are trying to do it the right way who trump is still trying to erect a steel slat mirror wall against them. >> to be clear, there are no terrorists coming up through the southern border. not happening. >> no hezbollah in venezuela. you had the president after he spoke in the rose garden giving congress the baton saying figure this out. it incumbent howasn't hours aft

lost faith in what they were doing. you have a bipartisan group hashing something out. you can't help but feel a little optimism for the way congress used to work that they're doing something and something will come of this. what's your takeaway from the fact that this group, largely veterans, has managed to seems to come to some sort of agreement and yet it's going to be this all likelihood stymie d by the white house? >> will it be -- i'm not the political reporter. it seems to me -- what options does donald trump have at this point? if he does the national emergency, it's going to be hung up in the courts. it's not going to work. maybe he throws in the towel and finds a way to save face. >> i hope so. that's only -- he will probably claim a win even if he does throw in the towel. no matter what happens, he is going to claim a win. i hope that he sees the light just because of the pain and perhaps the polling he received post first shutdown.

i hope republicans in the congress -- really, mitch mcconnell is the key. he has always been the key. donald trump can have temper tantrums -- you know, he needs to come out and do hig js job a make sure donald trump's irrational behavior is not leading the country down a path where shutdown after shutdown and complete dysfunction. >> come saturday morning, lights on? >> we will build a human -- it will not be a wall. he will call it a wall. >> think about -- >> put a red ribbon. >> they put up razor wire. that is a literal embodiment of this is what they imagine the wall to be. the site of death and suffering. he will emphasize things like that. it will be interesting. the center of gravity shifted in the republican party. even if he wants to make a deal, i'm not sure if the steve kings

of the party and the ann coulter will tweet. i wonder if he feels like he has the mobility. the party is divided on this. >> we will come back in a moment. virginia's governor breaks his silence, speaking out for the first time since that incredible press conference a week ago. calls grow for the resignation of the lieutenant governor. new developments from the women accusing him of assault. more on that when we come back. accusing him of assault. more on that when we ce omback tremfya® can help adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis get clearer. and stay clearer. most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. before starting tremfya® tell your doctor if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. tremfya®. stay clearer. janssen can help you explore cost support options. (clapping) every day, visionaries are creating the future. ( ♪ )

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welcome back to "up." political turmoil and chaos continues to engulf the top three leaders in virginia. in the latest twist, two women who accused the lieutenant governor of sexual assault said they would testify in impeachment proceedings should he refuse to step down from office. that's according to statements from their attorneys. justice fairfax continues to deny the allegations. he asked for an investigation. the state's governor and virginia's attorney general, both democrats, who are facing scandals of their own. with calls for all three men to step down, it's a situation that looks likely to rock the democratic party at its very core. take a look at where things stand now. we are familiar with this line of succession when you look who could take over. what did we learn from this new interview in "the washington

post" about ralph north tham. he has been within the executive mansion and complex in richmond. he wants to stay in power. >> i'm sorry. he has been read iing -- >> he is reading what i read when i was 12. >> he says he will stay. he says he wants to focus on issues of race. when you look at these three now -- is his position the most secure? >> yes. that's really surprising given what happened last saturday when he volunteered to moon walk in front of everyone. i think virginia is in a crisis, obviously. there are a couple of way flz which ths they can move forward. i don't know if that starts with him staying in office and appointing -- fairfax resigns and northam appointing a woman who probably didn't wear blackface and didn't assault everyone, because women are less likely to do these kinds of

things. potentially, that's one solution that gets virginia democrats out of this current crisis and allows them to move forward in a way that's serious. i don't know. i can't believe that any of this is happening, frankly. i think the most serious situation right now is justin fairfax. he is -- >> criminal. >> it's an alleged crime. it's not something that is perhaps racist or insensitive to his constituency. it's something that we should go to an investigation and we should have these women testify under oath. i think they are volunteering to testify shows that these claims should be taken absolutely dead seriously. you don't volunteer if you are making it up on the fly. i think in the me too era, we are taking these claims seriously. racism is something we are dealing with.

me too and racism, the trump era is wonderful. >> we look at this and we look at it in the context of what we went through with the last supreme court nomination. it looms large. >> yeah. >> how do you see it affecting how things will happen here? there's the voluntary testimony before if there's an impeachment proceeding. how does it color that? >> it's really interesting. what a week. i think that one thing that i have been glad to see is that i think there's been a history where women of color were told to be silent because they were told to be -- what was good for the movement or the community, the people. that has not happened this time. i happen to nova necessaknow va. she's a serious, strong, principled woman. her bravery in doing this and -- this isn't the time, right? realizing -- it's never not time to talk about sexual assault.

i think that's -- we have to wreck on with all find a way to have these conversations in ways that we can address all of them and not be afraid to not talk -- i think the democratic party doesn't want to look hypocritical. that's the stance that makes sense to take. >> the democratic party is principles d on this issue. we need to send grant back down. there's more to do. i think this is -- picking up on your point. this is important. just because -- i refuse, refuse to live in a world where we can't find one person who hasn't worn blackface and didn't rape anybody. i don't think that's hard. i think it's ridiculous to -- as much as i agree, there are various mitch mcconnell ways to -- i don't care which party is in power at this point.

what i care about is having basically decent humans running the show. if that means we have to start electing women all the way down the ticket and 20 years until men can get their act together, i would be down for that. >> shut it all down until we can figure out what is going on? to quote the president. >> you are not a political reporter, but you are an observer from washington, d.c. i'm just struck by this dynamic between things at the state level and national level. you have the national democratic party calling for the resignations. they haven't happened. there's a constant deafness on the part -- sg >> the entire congressional delegation of virginia wants these guys out. for these individual politicians, they are benefitting from the environment that donald trump has created. donald trump has shown you can survive these things. he admitted to assaulting women during the campaign. he was elected president. he emerged from charlottesville, no one is talking about that. >> i talk about it all the time. all the time. >> it's not dogging him.

all these guys are thinking about that in their calculations as they decide whether they need to resign. >> lying and -- >> going back to ralph northam hunkered down. talk about your sense of the cynical calculus he made here. it seems crazy, i think we can say, saturday that he said what he said and now so much has changed. do you think he was making a calculus at the time? all of this has made it possible for him to stay on? >> it seems like he knew something we didn't know. his behavior seemed so bizarre. maybe that makes him quote unquote smart in this scenario. there's not a lot of smart people to talk about. i think that as we go forward in the justin fairfax story -- ralph northam may see how it unfolds with his lieutenant governor because he decides ultimately what he wants to do. i think in terms of justice fairfax, reporters need to ask follow-up questions.

when he says it was consensual, they need to ask, how did he know that? did he ask for consent? did she say yes? those are the appropriate questions to follow up someone who just defends and says, it was consensual. you need to actually be able to explain how you knew that. >> when he says it was orchestrated smear campaign, show us the evidence. >> two women who don't know each other that we're aware of did not come up with similar stories about the same person. that's not a conspiracy. >> when republicans say anything, they need to shut up. they need to get off my lawn with their stuff. we have gone through some of the republicans. one was editing a yearbook that was like blackface. ed gillespie ran one of the most openly racist campaigns. the republicans have no credibility to be -- to say anything about this. if they want to giddy in private, who can stop them?

they have no credibility on this. another senator expected to announce her bid for the white house later today. another is off and running. senator elizabeth warren on how she would take the fight to president donald trump. >> we are in this fight for our lives, for our children, for our planet, for our future. and we will not turn back. with fidelity wealth management you get straightforward advice,

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welcome back to "up." we expect the field of democrats vying to take on president trump is going to get more crowded. amy klobuchar is holding a rally on boom island in minneapolis today in 19-degree weather where she promises to make a major announcement. she assures everyone there will be cookies and hot coco. she she's prone to what they call bursts of cruelty that make senator klobuchar difficult to work with. we have beth phooey with us here in new york. i want to start alli

vitalli. should you go to senator klobuchar's announcement? why you shouldn't go, just a political speech. there's so many candidates. does slhe have a chance? why you should go, football season is over. nothing better to do. if klobuchar does become the first woman president -- what do we know of what we are going to hear today? >> i want to say you were generous saying it's 19. we actually just hit 10. i'm hoping later when she takes the stage, we get to the high teens. for right now, we're at 10. there are promises of hot clo chocolate. we did get early excerpts. i want to read you a piece of that. she's doing something that a lot of other 2020 candidates have done, invoking the problems they see as trump as president but not naming him.

the sense of community is fracturing across our nation right now, worn down by the petty and vicious nature of our politics. we are tired of the shutdowns and gridlock. that's one of the pieces of an excerpt from her speech that we got earlier this morning. that's something we have seen from other 2020 candidates who want to take on trump but don't want to make him the centerpiece of their campaign. that's interesting as the watch the candidates begin entering the field. they are gunning to run against the president. it's going to be interesting to see how they do it. someone like amy klobuchar is interesting. if you talk about the geographical battle for 2020, she's from one of the midwest states that democrats seem to struggle with. in her 2018 re-election, she did well in counties trump won. donors and strategists are

interested in what she could bring to the field. tonight might be the first step in that move towards presidency. >> look for one of those warming houses. i saw those billed as well. >> i will. >> benth, i want to turn to massachusetts. senator warren making her announcement there. i was struck by her nod to history. you have kamala harris and cory booker looking forward. as i listened to senator warren, she's looking to the past and to elements of the history of the country as well, talking about, yes, that history of immigration. i was struck as joe kennedy, the young congressman introduced her, he talked about all that elizabeth warren knew. she knew the crisis was going to happen. talk about that.

>> that's a great point. in this day and age when there's so many younger candidates and younger voters are the heartbeat of the democratic party right now in many ways and since trump they have become more activated, do you want to talk about what's in a candidate's past? in the case of warren, it makes sense. she lived the life she's describing of people she's trying to help. she came from a family -- she talked about being on the ragged edge of the middle class. she was a single mother for a period of time. she knows what she's talking about in terms of how people on lower rung of the economic spectrum suffer. she's got credibility there. she was invoking history that informs what the democratic party has been and perhaps can be again. she was talking about labor unions which have become less fashionable and have dropped in power over the past many decades. they used to be the heart and soul of the democratic party. we see union members voting overwhelmingly for donald trump in 2016. she's trying to say, the history

of labor, the history of working people belongs to the democratic party. that needs to come back and be part of our coalition. she's talking about pulling together sort of her own personal history, the history of where the party has been and how that can inform going forward for a presidential candidate to go up against president trump. >> therein is the difficulty. the personal history. there have been traps she set and fallen into over the course of the last few years, the most recent of which was this piece that she on her bar application in oklahoma wrote american indian down. she needs to stop talking about this, talking about the foreigner clinton spokesman said was the e-mails all over again if she continues down this path. what's your prescription for her as she has to face these articles and these allegations, this part of her history, as she wants to talk about other facets, what is she to do? >> she has an opportunity. i don't think she should shy away from this. this is a moment in which she

can take advantage of experts and educate all of us on the history of oklahoma and native tribes in oklahoma specifically. the fact that she heard growing up that she perhaps had this in her background is not in and of itself controversial. i need to say that. somehow we gloss over that. she's a liar, no. she heard this growing up. it's not something that's completely implausible if you know about the history of oklahoma, which not enough people who are covering the story do. i would just encourage people to educate themselves. but i think she has an opportunity to educate others. another point i would add is her speech not only touched on economic issues, but it intersected with race and gender. that's where i feel like the democratic party message has legs. i think -- she can use the controversy over her native heritage and her message and it intersects. it's about race and about economics. she can talk about the issues on native land in this country and

also just all of the issues that they are dealing with in particular. she it use it as an opportunity to educate all of us. i hope that she does that. >> did you see signs of that, beth? talk the way the rally was conducted. she has a lot planned here, nine stops in ten days. >> i know from talking to folks around her that she had considered bringing up the issue of the con trtroversy about her claim of native american in the speech. this is the day to talk about her vision and her economic policies. she would be available to talk about it with reporters on some of the campaign stops that she's making. she's in iowa today. we will see if it cop comes up there. i talked to people in the crowd. they are fans. that's why they are standing in freezing cold weather. what they talked about is -- it was almost as if they hadn't thought about what we are talking about. they were talking about how she

inspires them and they feel like she has been somebody for who many years now has stood up for people who have been marginalized economically. that was clearly the message of her speech. she has a clear message, which in this crowded field i believe can be an advantage. you know what elizabeth warren stands for. amy klobuchar who will get into the race today, she's from iowa -- excuse me, minnesota, that's near iowa which might be helpful. it's hard to think about what amy klobuchar stood out for. some of the others as well. there is not as clear of a vision as what they stand for. elizabeth warren, she became a national figure before she was in the senate for standing up and talking about how banks and companies have marginalized people. >> did you havel leher as a professor? >> i did not. >> the level of constant --

>> the attacks against her are against every woman in this race. it's all but her e-mails. with warren it's native american, with kamala harris, she hates black people. amy klobuchar, she's a mean boss. it's all bsh there's a reason -- what's the consistency? that's all women. do you see what you are doing? i feel like if you have a policy issue with one of these women, please bring them. if you don't have a policy issue, please shut up. i'm unwilling to do the hillary clinton thing again. >> me too. >> warren has been -- warren has been consistent on her economic issue. if you have an issue, there are issues to have, let's talk about her economic program. >> a shameless twitter plug in.

thanks to beth for being here. appreciate it. the richest man in the world goes to war with the "national enquirer." the latest on that fight. first, some media criticism courtesy of snl. >> obviously the mainstream media has a responsibility to handle the story in a mature, adult manner. as you can see, bezos exposes pecker. what do you think of that? >> it's insane. you call yourself a respectable publication? i would have gone with your amazon package is on its way. to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else...

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it's absolutely not extortion and not blackmail. what happened was the story was giben e given to the "national enquirer" by a reliable source that had given information to them for

seven years prior to this story. it was a source that was well-known to both mr. bezos and miss sanchez. i can't discuss who the source was. >> that was the attorney for american media ceo david pecker defending his client. this after amazon's ceo jeff bezos accused of publisher of extortion and trying to blackmail him in an effort to stop the investigation into how they obtained private pictures of him and the woman he is dating. jeff bezos writing, if in my position i can't stand up to this, how many people can? terry cruz accused ami of making up a false story to silence him. he said in no uncertain terms there, absolutely not extortion,

not blackmail. >> kind of extortion and blackmail. there's a reason why jeff bezos put this on medium at not in a lawsuit. it's actually very difficult to prove a case of criminal extortion or criminal blackmail. as the lawyer was kind of saying, you can kind of pass this off as settlement negotiations. if you are a lawyer, this doesn't -- for lay people, it doesn't make a lot of sense. if you are a lawyer, you can say, give me a million dollars or i will ruin your life. that's lawyer foreplay. what you can't say is give me a million dollars or i will kill your dog. that would be extortion. what's the difference between lawyer foreplay and extortion? you would be surprised, the law is not very clear. you would think we would want it to be. it's not very clear. one distinction is whether you are threatening something that you are legitimately allowed to do. what ami is arguing that they

are allowed to public pictures of jeff bezos' thing. that's a legitimate news item. the problem with that is, i'm old enough to remember a site called gawker. one thing we learned is that sometimes revenge porn is not subject, is not available to these kind of normal first amendment news protections. if bezos can argue that the thing that they were trying to make him do had nothing to do with the claims that ami wanted to release and was more of the revenge porn as opposed to legitimate news, bezos might have a case. i wouldn't advied advise him t that case except he is jeff bezos. if peter thiel can destroy gawker, maybe bezos can destroy ami with this one. >> we have this, this medium post, e-mails. nbc hasn't verified the

authenticity. we have seen one side of them. where does it leave us? we're wondering about political motivation, about foreign governments as a specter raised by jeff bezos. we knew about the tactics of ami and the "national enquirer" for some time. as all of the legal whisperings happen, where do things stand? >> we knew about them. we have never seen them in this fashion. i'm fascinated by how they got these texts and the hints that saudi arabia may have been involved, which bezos' team is dropping. you heard a reference to michael sanchez. that's the brother of the woman he is dating who is a trump supporter and could have handed over the text. that's a simple story. jeff bezos is a billionaire. it's unlikely his phone was hacked. he has terrific security. >> he is in this business. >> i imagine he has two sell verification. >> can i say that one thing that's interesting is, when you think about what legitimate

media is, it's trying to hold power to account. you punish your enemies and you reward your friends and you are able to sort of basically -- if the statement for "the washington post" is democracy dies if darkness, ami's is pay me. i think that tells us something about, this is the image of what the media ought to be in the trump world. this is what they dream journalism should be. >> to that note, lastly, we are talking about the effect of this. i thought one of the most powerful parts of that medium post is jeff bezos talking about his investment in the "washington post" and his investment in this kind of journalism. >> he said when he is the 90 and looking back, this is the thing he would be most proud of. i should point out the reason they are suggesting saudi arabia could be involved is that saudi arabia is very unhappy with the "post" coverage of the death of their blogged writer jamal khashoggi ordered, according to the cia, by the saudi crown prince. >> huge mistake. >> coming up in a moment, was now former secretary of state rex tillerson right all along?

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welcome back to "up." an update on the talks that are taking place on capitol hill ahead of the deadline to get government i should say the senate appropriations chairman republican richard shelby was on fox news saying talks are stalled. sources say while dollar amounts for border security barriers and walls are at issue other talks like the number of detention beds are thorny. we were expecting to maybe see something tomorrow. the deadline being friday of

this week. meanwhile, president trump openly questions intelligence estimates telling spy chiefs to go back to school. from the president's leaked schedules he attended just 17 intelligence briefings in 85 days. president trump also skips the daily written briefing known as the pdv. this from a piece reported from nbc news. when trump believes something to be true, u.s. officials tell nbc news, it is difficult for them to dissuade him even if they have a mountain of evidence he is wrong. >> my intelligence people, if they said in fact iran is a wonderful kindergarten, i would disagree with them 100%. >> mentioned the number of briefings he's had. that's not out of sorts here. is it his interest of them, absorption? >> the fact that he's receiving very few briefings and not reading the daily intelligence

briefs which is the crown jewel of our $80 billion a year intelligence apparatus. >> we spend a lot of money on this. >> in the pentagon budget it's a rounding error, but it is people risking their lives. the nsa eaves dropping on communications around the world. all so the president can have the best information. past presidents have not always taken an in-person briefing. nixon never did. obama didn't even do it every day, but obama had a national security meeting to discuss classified intelligence after having read every day the daily intelligence brief. it is an honor to get a piece in that. it's like a daily up in of intelligence. if you get a piece in front of the president it's a career maker and trump is ignoring it. then he goes into the briefings when he has one and challenges the premise of the things that intelligence officials are telling him. when they try to convince him, yes, the cia has assessed the

crown prince ordered the murder of jamal khashoggi he demands a level of proof you don't see in intelligence. >> explain it more. that's key. we saw the reporting about the jamal khashoggi killing you mentioned in the last block. the conclusion the cia had come to. it cannot be without a doubt, is that right? >> former cia director mike hayden said if it was a fact it wouldn't be intelligence. you don't see perry mason proof in intelligence. but they are scrubbing for intercepts and more is emerging. they may get there. as of a few months ago they didn't have it. they had an assessment with medium to high confidence that this could not have happened without the crown prince ordering it. they had phone calls, meta data and trump didn't want to hear it. he called it a feeling that the cia had which is an insult to the considered work of the intelligence professionals. >> feeling. this gut instinct he has. >> we have never had anybody so

unsuited to be president. he simultaneously is so arrogant and so ignorant. that combination is toxic. you have a lot of public officials who have to appeal to -- everybody has a drunk uncle who's like, well, i think it's true. there's always that guy in the family that's like, i think this is true and facts don't penetrate. we have never had the president be that guy. the president is our drunk uncle who's like, well, i think it's true because i saw a show. and he likes it to be true. that's dangerous to have somebody so arrogant and ignorant who's like, i like it to be true. i think it is interesting that he gets enraged when people try to talk to him about law. when the people he's become most angry at are his homeland security. when people say that's illegal, mr. president, he's enraged. how dare anybody tell him that's illegal? just the combination of how manifestly unfit is another

example of what we are dealing with. >> what should we take away of the image of the president on twitter with gina haspill, some of the intelligence chiefs in the oval office after the miscommunication, misunderstanding. what message did it send to an intelligence community. >> there are a couple of ways to look at it. that was a way to get out of a treacherous situation. he insulted the intelligence chiefs and blamed them. in the meeting he blamed the media and said they were misquoted which for anyone who watched the hearing -- >> they were on tv. >> none of the agencies pushed back to say, hey, you're misquoting us. that was a way for them to move forward. >> so this comes down to the schedules that were leaked to axios. the white house is enraged at the leak, but what can we learn from this? >> it's a relief on one hand

that the president isn't doing more work because he's not prepared to do the work he's been elected to do given that he doesn't read anything. it's concerning because the president should be doing work, reading his intel briefings, getting the information because that's going to allow the country to be safe. if he's not doing the work, who is? he's the one who is ultimately going to make the decisions. i think it is an ongoing national security crisis. we must never lose sight of that. >> thank you very much for being here on this sunday. appreciate it. ahead on "a.m. joy" an interview with one of howard schultz's key advisers. we'll be right back. advisers we'll be right back.

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well, that does it for me. "a.m. joy" starts now. >> the building of trump tower was the true art of the deal. saving money was key. chapter one, hire the cheapest demolition contractor you can find though he has little experience. trump hired william casiggi whose principle business was window washing. william hired the polish brigade, more than 200 immigrants with no working papers who were paid one-third the union rate and worked under difficult conditions. >> good morning.