>> that does it for us. my thanks to heidi and betsy and matt miller. we have to thank your friends for hosting us when they make the trip. we are grateful for your hospitality. >> my only concern is we get so many comments about the green room. people get excited about it. they would like to find out who did the decorating. anyway, keep those coming. >> i'll bring the snacks. >> nice to show off a different part of the studio. if it's tuesday, are we bordering on make believe? good evening. i'm chuck todd in washington. we begin with an unprecedented level of presidential

deexceptideception. the president seems to be pretending to fulfill his promise by pretending to build his wall. this is the scene in el paso, texas. when the crowds chanted build the wall, he attempted to correct them. finish the wall. as the giant banners told them to say. as negotiators reached a deal to prevent another shut down this friday, a deal that funds just 55 miles of new fencing, whatever you want to call it. the president responded with a long and winding rant suggesting the deal is irrelevant because the wall is all but built or being built. here's a quick fact check. there is no wall and a number of journalists reported no new miles of wall or barrier has been built under this president. none. they are considering other options to build a more substandial barrier because they do not authorize it.

the other options including an emergency declaration may be unconstitutional. the president seems to be conditioning supporters to believe the wall is inevitable even though there is a more appropriate word if he runs congress. that would be illegal. handle capitol hill reporter michael steel and former adviser to jeb bush and speaker john boehner. former adviser to the d, this c and managing director. he too spent time in the leadership wars on the democratic side. in many cases having dug in, you live and breathe on capitol hill here today. what happened? do we have a deal? and the president is ignoring it. what is it and what do republicans think of the presidential reaction. >> this is not a good deal. we are in the same spot where

negotiators agreed to something similar months ago. so the president did not get anywhere close to his $5.7 billion for the wall. what that translates to is members cautiously optimistic that they will be able to pass this. the wild card is the president. you see senate republicans giving themselves room, some distance saying we are going to wait until we see the text of the legislation before we can come out. you don't know what the president is going to say. >> let's attempt to read presidential tea leaves. here he is after getting a question from peter alexander about the deal. >> will you sign the border deal. >> i have to study it. i'm not happy about it. it's not doing the trick. i'm adding things. when you add whatever i have to add, it's all going to happen where we are going to build a beautiful, big, strong wall. it's very simple.

we are building a wall. am i happy at first glance? i just got to see it. the answer is no, i'm not. i'm not happy. but am i happy with where we are going? i'm thrilled. we are supplementing things and moving things around and we are doing things that are fantastic and taking from far less important areas. the bottom line is we are building a lot of wall right now. >> the bottom line is on the wall, we are building the wall and using other methods other than this and in addition this. we have a lot of things going. >> all right. unpacking the president here is never easy. you know what i did not hear? >> republicans are listening for them and tuned in. exactly. the president backed himself into such a corn or this. this is the only thing he has

going on. he set up a situation where this is on the issue on which he will be judged on, period. whey heard in his comments is setting out the potential for an either or. does he accept this deal or declare a national emergency? he sounds like we will say okay, fine. we will take this and i will finish the job doing this. at the same time as is often the case, his rhetoric doesn't match what he is saying he wants to do. we have seen him switch from finish the wall and build the wall and he is using them interchangeably. it could be headed in a direction where he take this is and said i will try to supplement it. he gets to continue the political fight into the courts. >> what are do democrats get out of it? >> look, they got a lot out of this deal. $1.4 billion which was less. >> who is they?

>> democrats. $1.4 billion for a barrier that was considerably less than what the president asked for. there was humanitarian assistance and restrictions on fencing in general. it's not a perfect bill. >> democrats gave -- my point is, the democrats got closer to the president. the president didn't get closer to democrats. >> no. this was a good offer. >> he is saying thank you and i'm going around you. why did democrats even bother? >> they did get something out of this. the president was asking for $5 billion for a border wall. he didn't get that. it's not going to be a wall. it's going to be fencing. democrats, house democrats will support this. what i hear is concern among house republicans and mike know this is better than i do, but they want a vote as quickly as

possible. so trump doesn't have a chance to screw it up and the far right and others don't try to disrupt it. >> don't tell the president there is no wall so we don't have to shut down the government again. the president has no wall, but look, obviously -- >> if you don't put that information in his face, you get away with it. >> he will accept this deal, blast congressional republicans for not getting the job done and blast democrats for failing to secure the border and try to reprogram money to build something resembling a wall that he can stand in front of for reelection and he will karail against the courts. that's fine. >> i want to play and yes, that's true. i want to play something he said. when you hear this, at what

point will it ever matter if he is not telling the truth to his base. take a listen to what he said about the wall. >> they said that progress is being bhemade with this committ. just so you know, we are building the wall anyway. now, you really mean finish the wall. we built a lot of it. it's finish the wall. >> it's not -- >> he's a conman. his reality distortion field has not broken yet. >> people listen to him and love him. the field is fully in place. black is white, up is down. >> this is what he ran on. this is all he has. >> i roll my eyes when people play the or well card. i think people are overreacting

sometimes. this is up is down. >> it works for the president and his base. >> how do we know it's work something. >> because his base is still with him. >> that's the measure? >> yeah, for the president. it is. >> he has a 43% at best. the president. that's a disaster. >> that's going to be difficult for reelection, but it's a chase between the two. as you know. there are two things going on. the president is still going to be able to make this a campaign issue in 2020. he wants this to be the one issue, one of the main issues he runs on. also for the democrats, i have been talking to democrats about this. why do you care what's in the legislation. the president is going to say whatever he wants to say anyway. >> it's true. >> this is also for the democrats's base, too. they are still talking in terms of reality and truth about what is in legislation and what's going to happen.

we know this president. >> this is the reason he is taking a flame thrower to democrats and all of this stuff. it's because he intend says to try to win as a 43% president and in order to do that, he has to make the alternative unpalatable. >> he needs something else to campaign on. he didn't get it with a divided congress. he needs to be able to convince his borders. look at the line. they applaud it as if he was right. not checking him on it. people to a large extent hear what they want to hear. >> beto o'rourke. did donald trump do him a favor? let me play a little bit from beto.

crowd size-wise, i'm sure it irritated the president. >> we can show the rest of the country as we make our stand here together, tonight, that walls do not make us safer. the president describes mexican immigrants as rapists and criminals. we have the chance to tell him and the country, immigrants commit crimes, including violent crimes at a lower rate than do americans who were born in this country. it's disorienting how different they are. i can picture a lot of the debates and i know everything is a symmetrical, but it's amazing at how different those two rallies were. is he helped by this because he's a texas border guy and he can take on the president or is

he hurt because democrats don't want it to be an immigration issue? >> he is helped by it because you get a big sflit screen. you have him on one side and trump on the other. he was bringing in a good sized crowd. trump lied about his own crowd and beto's crowd. >> that tells you how much beto is under his skin. >> he's president. what do you care? >> beto came out of hiding and got his mojo back. he was on this journey, soul searching journey for the last month. this might be the thing that propels him to make the decision to run. overall it's a big win for beto. >> to donald trump, for what it's worth, beto got about 6500 and trump had about 7,000 or 8 to 10 outside. in donald trump's math, there was 35,000 to 300. >> 69,000 signed up. >> yeah. anyway. president or well had his

counters. >> bernie, biden, and beto. beto is not necessarily the most appealing, but we know what they look like. beto is in some senses an untested new thing. >> i have to say, you have covered beto a little bit. he versus trump is a symmetrical. they are not only talking to two different groups of voters, but in dramatically different styles. one will be touch feely and one brute force. >> democrats may not want immigration to be the central theme of the 2020 election, trump is going to make it that. last night the two rallies, it was emblematic of what peach person, beto and the president were saying. they were talking to paces and it was a contrast of what we

heart and a preview of the next 18 months. >> the senate dem is democrats are afraid of immigration. brahm brahm barack obama took positions that were defensive. is this party more comfortable on offense? >> not yet. we are not there yet. >> a little fear? >> the party has always talked about border security. we believe that. trump can say whatever he wants to say, but we believe in that. i think we are having a hard time articulating our vigds of border security. >> without looking like you are alienating latinos. it's a balance that is hard to strike. >> we have some do it well, but we are not there as a party yet. >> we will pick this up. i promise. i saw your eyebrow. we will be back in a minute.

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i'm disappointed in congress. once again, we failed to do what we promise said the american people we would do. appropriate an amount of money to secure the southern border and kicked the can down the road. >> that was the house freedom caucus chair expressing unhappiness in an effort to avoid another shut down. president trump shopped short of saying he wouldn't sign it. joining me now is john yarmouth, chairman of the house budget committee. we invited you here, congressman. great to see you. just sort of curious where democrats go from here when trying to deal with the president. on one hand, if mark is

complaining and joaquin castro who went on "morning joe" this morning said he doesn't want to support the bill because he thinks it gives the president too many n particularly when it comes and he doesn't want new fencing, is that a success or a failure? >> this is a great success. from two standpoints. one for the american people. government is going to stay open. the second one is that i think it restores a little bit of the stature of congress. it is a message that we can negotiate and compromise and we can get something done. >> does it do the job? you gave two good things. we are not shutting down the government and congress is showing you can't roll over. what about the substance? is it a good bill or not? >> it wouldn't be the bill we would write as democrats, but as part of the bill, we got

humanitarian aid at the border and more judges working. we are going to have enhanced protection at the border crossings. a lot of things we have been pushing for that again will treat people as human beings on the border, we got. that's a plus. >> if the president said i'm going to sign it and don't care, some die-hard democrats will say why did you bother? >> that's a good question. democrats believe that government serves an important purpose in this country and i have in my district, we all have tsa workers and i have a census bureau office and 1700 employees in my market, they were furloughed for five weeks. these are very, very important things. we have irs people in tax season who were furloughed. this is important to us.

we want to make sure the government runs effectively. if we are the party of government and i seap that moniker, we should want it to work right. this is part of that. >> do you feel as if congressional republicans want to make deals? if the president was not involved. >> on certain things. >> let's say the president said i'm taking a six-month sabbatic sabbatical. could a democratic house and senate get done without his involvement? >> we can use the involvement and both sides want to do that. >> do you trust him? >> i don't think you can trust him, no. >> that's what i'm trying to figure out. he may be with the democratic point of view on infrastructure. look at the various ways that he has been deceptive about if there is even a wall. do you trust it? >> you have to go about your business.

we have two veteran legislators in charge of the house and the senate. nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell who understand the way the institutions work and they can work together get things done. >> i have to pause there. if mcconnell and pelosi were running things, would we have a functional congress? >> much more functional, yeah. they understand the need to compromise. she said not a dollar for the wall. i said the same thing. nothing for the wall. those are starting positions in the bargaining. you never know where president trump is and you don't know even when he said where he is. we met and i was one of a group of bipartisan members of the house who went to camp david with mick mulvaney and think we could have solved every problem including the mideast. even with mick mulvaney, if he

had been president -- >> he seems to want to cut deals. no doubt. >> it's strange. >> everybody around the president seems to want to do this. that's why i wonder, is there a way if the president vetoes this, i assume you guys are not doing anything together. if this is the way this ends, why will anything happen? tell me i'm wrong. >> i'm not going to because it's with no expectations that we will get anything done. >> you made a promise to take over the house. i take health care. i feel like if there is one promise you have to be caught keeping, it's that one. >> we will passe lot of important legislation starting with universal background checks and deal with an infrastructure bill and work on health care and do something with prescription drug prices. i don't know if we will expand medicare, but we will talk about

that. what our goal is to show over the next two years, what a democratic-controlled government would look like. display our vision. >> you feel that's one of your jobs in the 2019 year is to show the country if you elect a democratic president, this is what they look like. >> exactly. to show we can govern. we have six or eight months to demonstrate that and pass things through the house and pass things that are reasonable and clearly represent our values and also what we think are mainstream american values. >> i watched your career for sometime. there was a time when you were thought of as a liberal member of congress. i don't think that's the case today. as somebody who tries to sell progressive politics, although louisville is a swing area of that state. this debate about medicare for all, give advice to the presidential candidates. how would you sell medicare for all nationally.

is it aspirational or something you built? >> this is a very delicate topic because medicare for all means different things to different people. >> thank you for saying that. that title being hijacked messed up with the definition. >> they have the most expansive bill and hers is bernie sanders plus. she adds long-term care and vision and dental. it's universal health care for everyone on demand with no contribution. >> good luck with that. >> she wants medicare for all and that's a good brand, but there is a proposal to make medicare a public option. everybody would have the opportunity to buy into it and ex-papanned it to 50 or 55 years old. we will have it on the budgetary implications of all of them. the widesome range of possibilities so the public will have a sense of what's in it for

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>> per welcome back. in 2020 vision, it's not always the presidential race. they land a key senate recruit and the lift off to take control of the chamber in 2020. >> i care about the state of arizona. i care about this nation. because of that, i decided i am launching a campaign for the united states senate. >> retired astronaut and gun control advocate, mark kelly, launched a bid for john mccain's arizona senate seat today. he first got involved in politics after his wife, former congresswoman gabby giffords was shot. >> you nearly lost your life serving your country. what do you do when bad things happen? >> move ahead. >> his announcement is just days after grand woods ruled out a run as a democrat, independent, or anything else. that doesn't mean chuck schumer

has cleared the field for kelly. ruben ga lego said he is looking at a run. democrats need to net at least three seats to gain control of the senate. this appears to be the top targets and defending doug jones in deep red alabama. they have to add georgia, north carolina to their list of target states if they have a legit shot at control. more "mtp daily" after this. more "mtp daily" after this. to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪

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>> we have a lot of interesting developments on the big questions between experience between the trump campaign and russia. they are approaching the end of the investigation and if both democrats and republicans say they uncovered no direct evidence between the trump campaign and russia. the question is, what does that

mean? democratic investigators say they are not ready to write off the significants of trump associate contacts with russia and they are a focus of mueller's probe. according to the "new york times," comments from one of the lead prosecutors in a closed door hearing where the transcript was made public later, that transcript suggests that the special counsel continues to pursue at least one central theory. starting while russia was taking steps to bolster the candidacy, they were ending deals over incursions into the ukraine and give moscow relief from sanctions impose by the united states and allies. in trying to explain why it mattered that paul manafort lied about communications with the russian associate, the prosecutor told the judge this goes to the larger view of what we think is going on and what we think is the motive here.

this goes i think very much to the heart of what the special counsel's office is investigating. pretty intriguing. with me is mimi rocah, former assistant district attorney in the district of new york. a side bar in a hearing about paul manafort that is supposedly not connected to mueller and not part of the investigation ends up revealing what we think is the central thesis of bob mueller which is sanctions, ukraine, all of that was the quid pro quo. is that how to read this? >> what was strike being this transcript and why people are talking about it, it was someone from mueller's team. one of the top prosecutors putting into word what is all of us on cable news in news reports have been hypothesizing and surmising on public evidence what we think happened here.

could have happened here. russia helped get trump elected and perhaps promised him some kind of trump tower down the road. in exchange, they were explicitly or implicitly promised sanctions relief. i think that the report today thaw mentioned, senator burr saying there was no direct evidence of that kind of conspiracy, that also really struck me. first of all, without getting too much into a law school course, prosecutors almost never have direct evidence of criminal conspiracies. >> at the level you have prosecuted people at the southern district of new york, i assume if you have direct evidence, you usually don't need a u.s. attorney. it's over. it's just done. usually there is no trial. they have been caught red

handed. if you are prosecuting t it means you don't have the direct evidence. no? >> if they go to trial, it usually means that. you're right. where people take early guilty pleas or a bug in a room and you have people talking and they are on recordings talking and even then, it's not like criminals sit around a table and especially when we are talking about these kinds of crimes and not robbing a bank ordealing drug drugs. we are talking about upon crimes that you don't sit around and lay out the plan. there are subtle discussions and implicit understood things and many different players communicating different parts of the agreement. you don't have it laid out for you. so direct evidence would be like a recording or a hooptor or

someone in the inside discussions when they happened. usually you have a series of events and things that you can point to from which you would draw inferences. that's circumstantial evidence and that's just as valuable in the eyes of our judicial system. they are explicit instructions to juries that you should consider circumstantial evidence as much value and weight as direct evidence. that may not be so clear to the american public without a judge explaining to them why that is. i think it's easy for people to say yeah, we see all these things, but there is no smoking gun is what people are looking for. >> let me get to this definition of collusion. there is no direct evidence. let me ask you this, if one part of the campaign is being -- is meeting with russian officials to talk about boy, how do we get

rid of the sanctions. it would be nice to get rid of them. we should have better relations. over here you are getting help from outside russian agitators to sort of sow the field. is that collusion? maybe the campaign didn't know one was relate to the other, but the russians knew what they were doing. is that how we look at this? the way i would look at this and we are basing this on the public facing evidence and the evidence that we have cleaned from mueller and there is probably more. for this not to be a criminal experience of some sort between people in the trump campaign and i'm not necessarily saying trump, but people in his orbit and the russians, you would have to believe that it was a coincidence that all of these things were happening at once and the russians were working in

many different ways to get trump elect and the people on the trump side were meeting with them and discussing sanctions which they, we know the russians wanted. trump was calling out to the russians to ask for them to find the e-mails. that paul manafort was handing over the data to one of the rugs that were part of the movement to get trump elected and stone was working behind the scenes and to -- >> you would have to believe all of those things were some random coincidence. >> and i didn't even list all of them. they are so many more. that belies common sense. that's something we have to come back to. often what seems to make the most sense is what happened. whether or not they will be able to prove it and whether or not the senate will have the actual evidence that will convince the

american public, i don't know. from this perspective, it looks like a conspiracy to me. >> that's what we are looking at here. mimi rocah, as always, thank you for trying to explain what is sometimes very difficult for those of us not familiar with law school to do. much appreciated. before we take a break, today, michigan paid tribute to the life of the legendary congressman, john dingle. crowds gathered for his funeral and after 59 years in congress, dingle leaves behind one powerful legacy. >> dignity was how john walked. dignity was how john talked. dignity was how john carried himself. more than that, it was how he treated everyone. and i mean everyone. >> severe weather kept the funeral from starting on time. nancy pelosi was on the way to

attend, but their plane couldn't land and they were forced to turn back. they held a tribute to the congressman 30,000 feed up. a short time ago his casket arrived in washington and they drove by the capitol one last time. he will be buried in arlington national cemetery. he died thursday at age 92. we'll be right back. we'll be ri. ( ♪ ) dealing with psoriatic arthritis pain was so frustrating. my skin... it was embarrassing. my joints... they hurt. the pain and swelling. the tenderness. the psoriasis. tina: i had to find something that worked on all of this. i found cosentyx. now, watch me. real people with active psoriatic arthritis are getting real relief with cosentyx. it's a different kind of targeted biologic. cosentyx treats more than just the joint pain of psoriatic arthritis. it even helps stop further joint damage. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis.

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>> welcome back. tonight i'm obsessed with how you can cut tacks and make people angry. the republican congress in 2017 reformed the tax codes and waited for the applause. >> this is going to be one of the great christmas gifts to middle income people. >> in february, they are going to see withholdings go down to see bigger paychecks. >> these provisions help the average american family see almost a 60% cut in their taxes. >> 60%! hardly, but still, convincing voters to accept lower taxes is like having more cherry ice cream because your doctor told you that you needed to eat more fruit. it's easy. a funny thing happened on the way to so-called tax reform. they didn't really reform anything. the code is more complicated than ever and benefitted corporations primarily. that was the initial intent. and the wealthy thanks to

capital gains. it wasn't very popular with the rank and file american. tax reform reformed people's tax refunds as in they're getting less refunded. so far the average refund is down about 8%. it gets worse. millions more won't get refunds or will end up writing a check. so what happened? and what happened to all of you that did your with holding correctly? let's rewind and i want to go back to the videotape. let's listen. >> in february, they are going to see withholdings go down. >> stop right there. paul ryan, withholding. filers did see withholding go down because the government did it for them. do you know what happens when your withholding goes down? your refund goes down too and they have. here's hoping we enjoyed that cherry ice cream because now the tax bill just came due.

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time for the latest after being rebuked for as youing anti-semitic language, she apologized yesterday. president trump suggested she should resign. >> anti-semative has noplace in the congress. congressman omar is terrible, what she said. i think she should either resign from congress or she should resign from the house foreign affairs committee. what she said is so deep seeded in her heart that her lame apology, that's what it was, it was lame and she didn't mean a word of it. >> carol, leanne, michael and

doug. carol, it has been interesting to watch democrats deal with republicans that was steve king. omar accepting the punishment and steve king not accepting the punishment and petitioning to get his committees back. it's interesting because he's the only republican calling on her to resign. e's the only republican calling on her to resign. i'm mildly obsessed with numbers.

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we have a lot for tonight's show. we're tracking reports that "the national enquirer is now a billion dollars in debt. we have a fact check on what really happened in the roger stone raid and but our top story, congress has a message tonight. they say they're doing their part to assure there's not a shutdown. instead you have both parties reaching art big new budget dea. the new