>> christopher peterson, former special adviser in the office of the director of the consumer fm protection bureau. we're out of time but thank you for joining me. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. there's brand-new reporting today on a meeting that's being described as a potential fulcrum of special counsel's robert mueller investigation into collusion between donald trump's campaign and the russians. there's also renewed skr scruti daytona's pro-putin statements and background gathering. all of those in the manafort case. "the washington post" paints a d vivid scene in the meeting under scrutiny by special counsel mueller. writing, the 2016 nominating conventions that recently concluded and presidential race was hitting a new level of intensity. when paul manafort, donald

trump's campaign chairman, ducked into an unusual dinner meeting at a private cigar room a few blocks away from the campaign trump's tower headquarters in manhattan. manafort and his deputy rick gates met with an overseas guest, a longtime employee of their international consulting business, who had flown to the u.s. for the gathering. a russian political operative named konstantin kilimnik. today's reporting by "the post" adding to the analysis in "the new york times" earlier this week about a transcript from a closed-door hearing that quotes top mueller prosecutor andrew weisman describing these sorts of contacts between the president's campaign chairman, that's paul manafort, and kilimnik, as one of the investigative theories at the heart of the mueller probe. and for fans of manafort court filings, there may be more where these came from. paul manafort back in court today for another closed-door hearing. in a preappearance filing, his lawyers appeared to confirm these blockbuster revelations

about contacts between the russian-linked operative and paul manafort about putin's top policy agenda items. that concession adding to questions about then-candidate donald trump suspiciously pro-putin comments during all of the days surrounding his campaign chairman's sit-down with a putin-aligned operative. testing your faith in coincidences, within two weeks the following events transpired as fill up bump writes for us in "the washington post" -- wikileaks dumped hacked e-mails from the dnc. donald trump publicly praised the hack. the campaign wish a pro-russian platform change. at the republican convention, donald trump praised and defended putin. paul manafort and konstantin kilimnik swapped e-mails and met to discuss policy, russian policy. and the fbi officially launched a counterintelligence

investigation into the trump campaign's ties to russia. so that's where we start today, with some of our favorite reporters and friends, national investigative reporter with "the washington post," carol leonnig. ken vogel, political reporter at "the new york times." former u.s. attorney harry litman. at the table, associated press white house reporter jonathan lemire and johnny deutsche. harry, we left out five of your titles. we will get to those before we start talking to you. i have to start with ken and carol, some unbelievable reporting from you and your colleagues this week. you guys have obviously pored over this transcript with all of the knowledge about the manafort case. ken, your piece mopped wnday wa described by a u.s. firm akin to a unicorn sighting. the officials at the heart of the mueller probe, the branch of that, contacts between donald trump's former campaign chairman and konstantin kilimnik.

you have been on this beat for many months. talk about what the significance this is in the broader mueller probe. >> the significance of what was laid out in the court filing you just described is that it gives some visibility into what mueller is actually pursuing, that is specific to the mission and the task he was assigned by the department of justice. that is to investigate russian meddling in the election and possible collusion with trump's campaign. we have seen a number of indictments, guilty pleas and convictions that have sort of bit around the edges of that and at times flicked at some relevance to that core mission. but this was really the first time that we had seen him directly relate one of their really central cases against paul manafort to that mission, and so it naturally raises questions, some of which i, my colleagues and folks at "the washington post," including carol, have done yeoman's work

unpacking in the months -- and in some cases years -- before this. i reported in august 2016 while manafort was still on the campaign he had this relationship with konstantin kilimnik and konstantin kilimnik had come to the united states to meet with him. would you think that would raise questions among folks who were looking into ties between the trump campaign and russia and possible collusion. now we know for certain that the key person, mueller, who is tasked with really investigating this, it is of interest to him. >> ken, what you're reporting this week, what you're analyzing this week is so important in the context of the president's pr effort around the effort to the senate intel committee. i wonder if in sort of a short description you can underscore what you just said about reporting that on your part, on your newspaper's part, goes back to when these events actually hand in realtime. in 2016, you were aware of manafort meeting with this putin aligned operative, and these

have ended up being the kinds of contacts robert mueller is still scrutinizing, so said one of his top deputies, prosecutor andrew weismann. that's very different from what the senate intel committee looked at. they didn't, as far as i know, sit with konstantin kilimnik. it's not clear the same interactions are at the heart of what they looked at, is it? ken? >> in some ways, no. the house intelligence committee are looking at some of the same stuff but they have a much broader and in some ways more freedom to weave a narrative and connect some of the dots that are not necessarily requiring the formal confines of an indictment or legal proceeding to introduce. but we know that they are also -- while they are looking at some of the this stuff, they're also looking at donald

trump's businesses and the ways in which those businesses have crossed paths with russians and have actually targeted russia for possible development. and that is thus far we have not seen any evidence that mueller is going down those paths. so in some ways these are complimentary. we've southeasternly secertainle some of the transcripts to bring charges. and obviously also the congressional investigators had the benefit of not having quite as much pressure on them to wrap up an investigation as mueller has and they can continue to do things as far as normal congressional oversight you would see of any administration. >> carol leonnig, i saw your tweet about your colleagues reporting today right after i read it and i'm going to botch it, but it was something -- the story had cigar bars and also ties together some threads you and your colleagues have been pursuing -- as ken just said --

for more than two years. talk about what you added to our understanding of why this is of interest, and some of the rich color that was in your piece today on this topic. >> you know, nicolle, i find this story so fascinating. it's almost like when you have one of those puzzles you get for a holiday gift and there are like seven really hard pieces and they're just empty on the board and you don't know where to put them. and it's like we're getting some of the really hard puzzle pieces now in in unsealed -- i'm sorry, in this sealed hearing partial transcript. and that story in terms of 2 1/2 years of gathering string about this case, ken is so right about august 2016, the stories being written about manafort's unusual connections to russians and konstantin kilimnik, former gru officer who was viewed by the u.s. government as an intelligence asset, i -- forgive

me, russian asset, operative, it's so amazing that now we are learning that this august 2 meeting comes in the middle of so much drama. you have the republican nominee for president saying a ton of things that don't really seem to speak to american voters. hey, i think most of those people in crimea want to be with russia anyway. what a bizarre thing to be saying, right, on the campaign trail. you have the platform change at the convention because always suspicious but pooh-poohed by people in the gop as having nothing to do with russians. you have the comments from various people, now we know secretly and we reported some of this last year, you have manafort saying i will give private briefings to that guy,

oleg deripaska, an ally and now we know august 2 a deripaska ally was asking to meet with manafort saying i have spoken to this guy for five hours. i have important messages to relay to you. let's meet. it seems to me there's something very bizarre about the fact all of these hand in the same amount of time, same period. >> i want to stay on that, carol. it's not just what you point out all of those things hand. and i believe at the time donald trump was saying equally bizarre things about america being just as bad as russia. he said on "morning joe," i don't know if it's in those two weeks, but said americans are killers too. he said it to my colleague joe scarborough and said something equally bizarre to bill o'reilly. this is also the one thing the campaign that really couldn't coordinate many messages all lied about. they all lied about these kinds

of conversations and those kinds of contexts. you can take what you just described seemingly at the time bizarre contacts of people alined with russian intel and add the more recent layer that manafort, gates, flynn, they all lied about their contacts and their conversations about sanctions with russia. >> absolutely. one of the things that revealed, nicolle, i'm glad you brought this up, but one of the things revealed in that transcript is that manafort's attorneys insist he wasn't lying in his last 12 sessions and interviews and two grand jury appearances, but he was just confused or forgetful. you know, flynn tried to say that he -- forgive me, michael flynn, tried to say he also had not intended to lie to fbi agents just a few days into his nomination, forgive me, his appointment as national security

adviser, that he wasn't intending to lie but ultimately he pled guilty to lying about conversations with a russian i t thing probably to say about all of those lies and all of those trump allies is all of those lies have to do with conversations they had to communicate with russians about things that putin cared the most deeply about. putin cared about first and foremost making sure sanctions were removed because it was perilous to his power network. he cared deeply about crimea and being a power on the world stage. and donald trump, the nominee for president, was echoing putin's talking points. >> so harry litman, tie this together for me the way a prosecutor and investigator would tie together the report

carol and ken are talking about, the idea all of these people -- and this is their own branding, they describe their campaign and donald trump's candidacy as the gang that couldn't have colluded because we couldn't collude with our press office. let me put this up, michael cohen pursued business deals on trump's behalf. trump tower moscow. lied about it to congress. donald trump jr. discussed sanctions with the russian agent in a roomful of russians promising dirt on hillary clinton. later lied about it and got a bunch of white house aides to lie about it as well, saying it was about adoptions. lying in august, paul manafort discussed policy with the russian operatives that we're talking about today. constanti konstantin kilimnik and others, lied about it to mueller. these meetings are all about those lies. december 2016 flynn, who had every right, every right as a national incoming security adviser to talk about sanctions policy did so and then lied about it. what does that look like to

investigators, harry? >> right, to a prosecutor what really gets their antenna buzzing out of control is, first, this point that carol and ken have teased out and really meticulous reporting, by the way. they have this manuscript and they read it so carefully for key points. and then the attempts to hide a rich, little detail that would get prosecutors totally focused, gates, kilimnik and manafort all leave by separate exits at this now-infamous august 2, 2016 meeting. something is going on, and you want to know. and what else gets them going? that the counterpoint to russia's key interest in crimea in the sanctions are the personal interest of the player, manafort's to get out of debt with deripaska, trump to build the tower, flynn that wants the sanctions released having something to do with his lobbying.

you have the sort of thing people do lie about it because they are keeping cover of their own personal financial interests if they're trading for the national interests of russia. added to that, by the way, was trump's bizarre downplaying of the importance of nato at just this time in the campaign. so all of that together but especially the lies and intents to conceal have a gang like weismann and mueller boring into the very, very core. >> here's the problem, and this is a precursor, you can see it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck, but unfortunately, and this is why the senate intelligence burns have come out and said there no direct collusion. even with all of this and more when the mueller probe comes out, unless you have trump say, okay, vlad, here's the deal i get the moscow tower. you don't release the tape and i will cover you on ukraine and

get the magnitsky act. i don't know if this gets where we need to get to. does this get you two-thirds vote in the senate? absolutely not. that's my concern. the more i hear about all of this, but i go yeah, if you don't have the smoking gun, if you don't have that one kill shot, is this all for naught? that's my question. >> is that you, harry? >> i was going to say, look, we're certainly spraying a lot of bullets around that do show the structure of a real conspiracy between the campaign and russia. the missing piece, i agree, is some sense of trump's knowledge but there are many possible avenues, including gates, by the way, who is the big source of this story from which mueller could conclude knowledge on trump's part, also stone. >> let me just offer another

event and whether you work for mueller, i do not, but one sort of other piece of information -- and you're talking about the politics and public opinion and i think the trump base seems to be a fact-free zone so i don't totally disagree with you. the conduct under scrutiny, the conduct that led them to open a counterintelligence investigation was confirmed when a counterintelligence investigations was opened into donald trump while he was president. the conduct was confirmed when he answered a question to you in helsinki about why he believes vladimir putin over his intelligence community. and he basically just looked at you and said because i do. >> where is it taking us? >> i don't know where it takes you but my only point is all of these threads, donald trump hasn't made an about-face. whether it's the tape or something else, he's still acting if he's in the throes of his affairs with putin.

>> the eyebrow raising statements and questions he would come up during the campaign are things he's still doing now. he's not changed his ret ring whatsoever. despite the obviously intense pressure from the investigations, not just on the hill but mueller, he's not backed down or trafrpged his story. he's not done a 180 in how he feels about vladimir putin. he's doubled his appreciation down his feeling for putin and willing to criticize putin against members of his own party and administration. that has not changed. you're right, this is yet another -- it is i big piece of the -- a big piece of the puzzle. we don't see the big picture yet. we also don't know if we will fully see it. will that be the moment the american public really wants? >> i think everybody's anticipating and this mueller report there are going to be 100 more things like this but if it doesn't land, it doesn't land and that's sad. >> i agree with you. one more question for you, the

withdrawals from syria, you know, served putin's foreign policy interest. this is all reporting about someone in there. it looks like they hardwired the trump team to carry out a foreign policy agenda. is there anything left on it? >> you're right. 1 it's been said more than once but if vladimir putin were to design a foreign policy, it would be many ways what we're seeing from the white house, a few exceptions here and there. syria being a great example. at this point the president has not had reactions recognizing crimea as part of russia -- >> knock on wood, jonathan. >> don't mean to jinx anything. but you're right, putin was so concerned, as outlined at the beginning of the sessionment, still having that position as world power, russia's influence fading. he was terrified of the idea of hillary clinton, someone he deeply dislikes becoming president, and further ratcheting up the pressure on russia and reducing them on the world stage. instead he's been handed a series of from victories that

elevated him and gotten that from this president, if nothing else. >> carol leonnig and ken vogel, i will make a tv confession. at the beginning of this i would hear konstantin kilimnik and was like who's that? i thank god for all of your reporting on this thread, keeping it alive and finding things in that manu psychiatrsc i didn't see. thank you all for everything. after the break, the house that would be in charge of impeachment proceedings staffed up. we will ask what's behind the hiring spree. also, democrats vowed to cast a wider net and robert mueller sesing out poem conflicts on the part of the president. and keeping track of donald trump's border lies. our favorite fact checker is here with that undertaking. at ug

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prosecutors are still just hinting at their focus in the collusion investigation, house democrats are going public with their lines of questioning for this president. axios reporting today house democrats are planning a vast probe of president trump and russia, with a heavy focus on money laundering. a democratic congress person telling them congress plans to interview new witnesses and may circle back to earlier witnesses who they say stonewalled the investigation when republicans were in power. this more aggressive chapter of the russia investigation on capitol hill appears against a backdrop of a slew of investigations already launched by the house into president trump, his policies and his

business practices. joining the conversation, msnbc political analyst alina maxwell and eddie glide, princeton professor and msnbc contributor. i want to ask you, one of the people who lied to congress is michael cohen. how helpful can he be to these lines of questioning? >> i think very helpful. >> when will he be there? >> obviously, it was canceled. it was a big brouhaha because he canceled the other day. he did have the flu. i will attest to that. i spoke to him and he told me i said can anybody else happen to you? he was on tamiflu and zithro max. i hand to speak to him saturday night and he was supposed to go to a bat mitzvah. he ended up not going. ended up meeting friends for dinner, probably a bad choice. but when you're going to the senate and traveling 12 hours a day, he's not dodging. he will be there by the 28th and let's not forget he volunteered

initially and backed off with threats coming against trump against his father-in-law. we will hear from him. all three committees will hear from hix. >> looking at money laundering, is he the guy with the evidence if that happens? >> if you look back to weisselberg, and we talked many times on the show, it's a small circle. it's his kids, cfo, his attorney. there are not a lot else there. so i know michael is looking forward continued assistance and continued help, and i think michael will be one of the key people that will in the end of the day signal the fat lady for the president. >> i think donny's being careful. it sounds like michael cohen knows where the bodies are buried and he's going to draw congress a map. >> i think absolutely. i think this is why he poses a significant threat to the trump presidency. what's really i think exciting about this current moment is we actually see the congress

exercising its constitutional oversight. engaged in oversight. we knew it was coming and now it's here. let's see what plays out. >> and maybe it underscores -- and maybe i'm the only one at the table who feels gutted by this -- the fact republicans, who shouldn't have had a dog in the fight. if the current president sf either party was laundering money or in cahoots with the russians, they should have wanted to know. i don't disagree with you but we have been talking the last half hour about donald trump's ongoing conduct being deeply suspicious. >> right. but also this goes back to the campaign because we all remember mitch mcconnell was told about what the russians were doing and he was asked to be part of a joint statement, bipartisan statement essentially telling the american public what was taking place and he declined to do that. i think this goes back to the campaign. we don't know the reason behind him not wanting to talk about it publicly. obviously, there is the nra connection that's still being investigated. i think we will learn a lot more

about that through these investigations in congress, because congress has a much better mandate. it's not regulations mueller's operating under. i'm excited about the fact congress has essentially taken the reins of this intelligence committee and oversight, oversight committee, and said we're going to do a broad investigation. because at the end of the day, what they need to do is prevent this from happening again. the only way we're bog to get to that place is if we know exactly what happened in every single action that was taken by some in our elected government to either allow this hacking to take place, allow it to continue or not allow the american people to be told exactly what was happening. i think there's a lot more we're going to find out through that line of investigation, that mueller is not even tasked with finding out. >> i guess if we get any evidence the president remains at odds can the evidence, with the facts, the blowup ten days ago at the intelligence community. it was broader than just russia but on north korea, iran and

russia, he still either refuses toing assent or his come to his connecticut collusions about russia's sort of character, about putin's leadership or whatever it is, there's an ongoing conflict that many in ways will be a lot harder to hide behind as an incumbent president should he stand for re-election. >> no question. he's someone who presents his own sense of reality. he has said timep time again he has a better sense of subject matter than his experts or generals. nonsensical claims. but he's somebody who repeatedly will do that. whether it's denial for self-preservation o pushing forward in trump's america everything is right and intelligence officers are wrong. again, he's choosing time and time depend, the best advice of our government, he's not listening to them or believing them or trusting him. he's putting his own gut instinct first and that is not just worrisome, that's bad for the nation >> nicolle, history will really

frown on the republicans. you gave one instance. how about sending troops down when there's no caravan coming. sending american troops down literally like tinker toy soldiers. we can go on and on and on and they stand by. to me, see what you get with trump. he's a slimeball, he's a liar, he's a conman. these are all of the politicians voted to serve sweptsies. history will cast him not as quite as bad as trump but weak co-conspirators and it's tragic. >> look, there's all of the cash used to buy real estate, cash. i'm just trying to think how big the suitcases were to pay for it. all cash. >> through 14 buildings, he brought all-cash when nobody buys all cash. nobody. >> we will pick this up as we talk to congressman eric swarmio

joining us now. we started with reporting this analysis, which was probably clearer to you than it was to me which we saw the transcripts in which mueller, one of his top deputies, andrew weissmann, talks about the contact between paul manafort and constantine kl kilimnik being the heart of the collusion probe. that something you're taking a fresh look at now you have the ability and more control over your committee? >> absolutely, nicolle. again, it goes to the question of why was the trump team so damn eager to work with the russians starting back in october of 2015? that's the best evidence we have with michael cohen working with russian-american felix sater, talking about the kremlin trump tower moscow deal. and then fast forward to the trump tower meeting they took and moved heaven and earth to make happen. then you have the president inviting the russians to keep hacking. now we know in this hot month of

august where there's so much activity, again, the president's chairman is sitting down with a meeting with this ukrainian-tied individual. again, they're trying to win in the united states. why are you working with so many russians? it doesn't make sense unless you believe the russians can help you. i think they were all too eager to take the russians' help. ? congressman, talk about a hot month of august. it's been a hot february. this was the first time it was described to me as a unicorn sighting, seeing andrew weiss man quoted at the heart of the probe. do you feel like the mueller probe, perhaps under the direction of a new attorney general, do you think that you got honest answers from outgoing acting attorney general matt whitaker? or was there anything he uttered in his testimony that you're taking a closer look at or poring over for possible perjury? >> i thought he was dismissive,

disrespectful and not forthcoming with us. fortunately we're in the poeks now where, one, we will bring them back and start to press on the plincrivileges he asserted. two, we will test his account by looking at other witnesses with knowledge of what he said and find out whether he's telling the truth or not. three, we will do all we can to protect the mueller investigation. i asked him, nicolle, i said would bob mueller if he were sitting here today, would he agree with your assessment the mueller investigation was close to being finished? he said no, whitaker acknowledged that would be not be mueller's assessment. we don't want to investigation finished until the investigators followed the evidence. do i want it wrapped up yesterday? all of us do. but we don't want it wrapped up because they're feeling unnecessary partisan pressure. we want it wrapped up because every rock was looked under, every tree shake anticipate. anyone who worked or wanted to work with the russians were interviewed.

zblf let play something said that caught my attention after covering so many people close to the white house that whitaker was brought in to land the mueller probe. let's play it and talk about it on the other side. >> yes or no, at any point since that briefing you have communicated any information you learned in that briefing to president trump? >> mr. chairman, i know that there is a unique -- >> yes or no -- >> i'm sorry. >> that's a yes-or-no question. have you communicated anything you learned in that briefing about the investigation to president trump, yes or no? . >> mr. chairman, as i said earlier today in my opening remarks, i do not i tend today to talk about my private conversations with the president of the united states. but to answer your question, i have not talked to the president of the united states about the special counsel's investigations. >> i have not talked to the

president of the united states about the special counsel's investigation. do you think that's true? >> again, i'm going to test his word and not take him at his word. i don't think or most of the trump team are worthy to be taken at their word. we're in a position now it test. there are so many moments where he was like the cat with the canary looking around and giving an answer that didn't seem to add up based on other free press reporting or accounts that we've heard. 0 but this isn't going away. the reason it's not going away, nicolle, this was to take a damaging assessment of our rule of law in the country and make sure it's still standing and the people leading the department of justice are standing for the rule and allowing investigations to lawfully proceed. this matter was u.s. the rus bef law is a pillar to our american didn'tsy so we're not going away. >> i want to ask you about news

reports the committee hired two lawyers with expertise in the challenges you face ahead. can you talk about the hires and what you see them dock? >> we have hired outside experts, one, of course, norm eisner, who's known to many people for the work that he's done in the area of ethics. he worked in the obama white house as well. but i think he is going to be able to help us, especially as we look at whether the president's cashing in on access to the oval office, having foreign nationals by up space at his hotel just across the street, whether the president is making foreign policy based on his financial interests as we saw. we are not condemning the khashoggi murder against the saudis but we have found evidence that the president has prior financial dealings and maybe even current financial dealings with saudis. to make sure american foreign policy alines with values, we will shine light where there's darkness the last two years.

>> doesn't it seem to be a more central mission than finding out who picked and helped donald trump become president? will this be your focus or are you considering a run for president? >> no,ky walk a i can walk and and on this committee today we're going to pass a background check bill, just one year after parkland hand, we're going to see action finally in this regard. yes, i am considering that, nicolle. i expect to make a decision very, very soon. but part of that decision is motivated by as a former prosecutor, someone who benefited from a country where if you work hard, you do better and dream bigger, and theory if you have a president that takes us close tore an oligarch system, that promise could be lost. we want to make sure that still stands here and why i'm giving it consideration. >> we hope you walk, chew gum and keep talking to us. we're grateful congressman eric

swaler. thank you for your time. >> it seems they're looking at every aspect of what we already know and deep dive. what i was about to say before he cut to the representative is for the common person, none of this passes the smell test. something is up. what we see clearly at least in this instance is that the democrats, whomever, they understand the stakes go beyond simply donald trump. it cuts to the heart of the well being of our democracy. when we talk about people turning their backs on the country, it includes not just simply donald trump or simply donald trump's men, it includes all of those congress persons who took an oath to protect the country who have in some significant way betrayed their oath in my view. >> we're happy to have you to the time we had you. thank you for being here. after the break, congress is creeping closer to a deal to avert another shutdown.

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i'm not as concerned as other conservatives if the president signs the bill but there's a couple of ifs. the president would need to declare a national emergency. this is the time. that is a necessity. >> i think he ought to feel free to use whatever tools he can legally use to enhance his effort to secure the border. >> what we have to do is have to encourage the president to take some type of executive action if congress is not going to war. >> that's the political version of what dating is called, it's not you, it's me. the final agreement isn't even written up yet and already donald trump's allies and congress in the conservative media are plotting plan b, it's not what they wanted but a start and donald trump will fix it, they say, but the truth is abundantly clear. trump got beat. the nearly $1.4 billion being

asked for walls or barriers or peaches as he once called the wall fell well short of what he asked, as well as the deal he was offered late last night. "the new yorker" writes, this is what defeat looks like for donald trump and maga guard accepting scraps and describing them as a thief. from "the washington post," all of this is taking on the quality of an increasingly breathless effort to blow air into a balloon with a leak. and while trump insists he will find funds to make up the difference elsewhere, under the couch cushions in the west wing, perhaps, he might want to take some of his own advice in "the art of the deal" -- you can't conn people, at least not for long. can you create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion to get all kinds of press and throw in a little hyperbole but if you don't deliver the goods, people will catch us. joining us now our friend and washington bureau chief daniel

dale. the lies are ridiculous. where are we now? do you think the sefrt to disorient his own base? >> it's to disorient everyone. almost nothing he says about immigration is true. we're finishing the wall, not starting the wall. the wall has not been started. el paso used to be one of the most dangerous cities in the country before its fencing. it wasn't. they come in throu-- drugs come through the desert and they don't. he wants to keep deceiving people as long as possible and to some except it works. >> your big lie last year was the center of the hush money. as the bucket of immigration lies, is that overflowing and is it tied to some sort of anxiety about his political standing? >> i think it is for sure. this was an area that was central to his election, and i think he knows as we all do that he has not fulfilled his

promises. and i think he clearly shows his anxiety when he tries to correct the chance of his own supporters, many of who know he's not building the wall. can't build the wall, he can't finish the wall. they keep chanting build the wall. so when he tries to sell these obviously untrue things, even some of the die-hard are not buying it but enough are that he feels like it's worth lying to them. >> ann coulter had a tweet, i thought of you when i saw it, she said the democrats lie, not us. he's also rebranding the republican party as the biggest, fattest liars. >> shed the democrats lie and not us? >> ann coulter said don't do this, it's the other side that lies. this was in response to him saying, finish the wall, not build the wall. he's creating really uncomfortable tensions between a pretty unholy alliance, himself and some of the big cheeses on the far right. >> absolutely. to anyone who's paying attention, and that includes ann coulter, whatever you think of her, she pays attention to

immigration, it's insulting to all of our intelligence. we know none of this is correct. but he's banking on the poorly educated and they like to jump on the media when we correct him. i feels he's helped by these fights when he's not in the race. >> here's why he never let go of the wall. the wall was about the year 2045. that will be the first time whites are minority in this country. in 2010, there were still 72% of the country white. think about that. that terrifies a core. it's not just about america or mexicans coming in or hispanics, it's blacks, asians, nonwhites. he knows, basically what he ran on, birther movement, muslim bap and mexican rapists, mark america great again, make american white ago. that was underneath. >> i agree. i said the core of this has always been racism. when we talk about quote/unquote

identity politics which i sub plant civil rights to make people understand it a little more comprehensively but he also ran on identity politics. it was just white, traditional white, majority white america as donny said correctly is changing. that is terrifying not just donald trump but also the people who are left over who haven't quit or resigned or been fired like steven miller and i'm assuming he's still talking -- reports are he stopped talking to steve bannon and those are the people who are telling him you have to keep going back to immigration because the only people he has at this point are the base and they're not leaving, but those are the only people he can really credibly quote/unquote talk to right now. >> and the lies have accelerated in part because he's so frustrated with this deal. he knows that he's backed in a corner here. yes, he's not officially committed to signing it as we've been reporting in recent days. he's angry but he feels he has no choice. under pressure from his own party, he's not getting republican backing for another

shutdown if it happens that way again. we will see it. it will be vitriol. he will blame the democrats and paint them soft on immigration, whatever phrase he wants to use. but he knows he's in a tough way. in that reporting he left that el paso rally enthused. he thought it was a boisterous crowd, we could say turned violent. >> attacked a bbc reporter. >> and got on the plane and talked about the deal. trump kept an eye on the coverage of fox news, which was playing on board. >> he started to see there was some negatives, like his kitchen cabinet, sean hannities and laura ingrahams of the world, they opposed it, although others like "fox & friends" supported it, rush limbaugh seemed to give cover for it anyway. we know last time it was those conservative voices that broke the deal, caused trump to back out. stee it seems even though they're

split on it, he has to accept it and quickly try to change the subject. >> poll numbers too. >> he told pell arouople arounde knows that. >> he's lying when he tweets out rasmussen has me at 75. >> he's correct in the rasmussen tweets. but it's misleading. after the break, when the adults are away, trump will play, something trump dreamed about when his first days as president might not be a reality because apparently there's no one left to tell him no. helps keep me feeling dry,

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who accepts medicare patients. learn more with this free decision guide. call or go online to request yours. tick, tick, tick, time for a wrap up. a medicare supplement plan helps pay some of what medicare doesn't. you know, the pizza slice. it allows you to choose any doctor, who accepts medicare patients... and these are the only plans of their kind endorsed by aarp. whew! call or go online and find out more. it has been a dream of his for years. president trump wants his own military parade like what he saw in france in 2017. a parade he called magnificent. there was a huge parade in the plans for his inauguration. they say he was focused on big

picture theatrics. he wanted to arrive in a helicopter, he also wanted a full military parade and tanks and helicopters on the ground. his idea for a parade was one of the many ideas that jim mattis had to stop or slow down. now that he is gone the parade could be back. >> we're thinking about doing on the fourth of july, or there abouts, a salute to america parade. it will be a gatoring as opposed to a parade i guess you have to say, perhaps at the lincoln memorial. we're thinking about doing something that could become a tradition. a salute to america on july 4th or july 4th weekend, somewhere in that area. >> i like to just watch people in the background -- >> if he spent as much time

thinking about syria or isis as he doesgbout his binky, the parade, we might still have mattis as a -- what? go. what is wrong with him. >> we were talking about crowd sizes of all things and his fascination with -- >> daniel odell said something amazing. nothing he says about crowds is true. sometimes he says 55,000 people stuck outside the rally, i contact the town, it's 1,000, it's every right, so don't trust him. >> i think it is a metaphor for him, a size metaphor. but beto o 'rourke he said has a few money people, and he had 8,000. he says the capacity is 8,000 but they let in 10,000 and the

fire people are not supposed to let in people above fire capacity so they say no we did not do that. they did that on the campaign all of the time. that does not stop him. this is one of his pure fixations. >> the parade though, i get beat up when i compare him to my 7-year-old and i'm only sorry to my 7-year-old. >> don't do that to him. >> but this idea that he is sitting in the roosevelt room, i guess he was supposed to do something, talking about, you know, the tanker will be after -- kim jong-un has a parade, maybe he likes that, but what is that? >> ego and narcissism. >> it is childish. >> very childish. we have his private schedules, we find out she not doing much work. he has a lot of executive time. i have two minds on this. on one hand it is horrifying, he is the president of the united states and he is not working. he is elected to serve us and he

is not doing that but do you want him doing work all of the time? he is someone that is incompetent as well. do we want him in there working and being in competent. >> let me make you feel better and stop the back and forth. he is not working, he is not going to work, he is planning a parade. we will take our last break and be right back. l take our last b be right back. ♪ in the evenin' breeze, ♪ listen to the murmur of the tall concrete, ♪ ♪ send me off forever, but i ask you please ♪ ♪ don't fence me in. special offers available at your local mini dealer. and i don't add trup the years.s. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein,

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>> they would be able to climb mount everest easier i think. >> put that through the trump converter. if it is difficult, it is not different, very difficult is maybe a little hard. mount everest pry means a little harder. "mtp daily" is starting with chuck todd right here. >> i will faction this to you, it will be mount everest is how high. >> i understand but mount everest is in or bit practically. >> and it doesn't have steel slats. >> that is over in the alps they have the steel