and even movie tickets. just say get "dragon tickets". that's a wrap for me on this hour of weekend with alex witt. stay where you are. it is time for up with david. >> this morning's all the president's men and women withdrawn from consideration. >> heather once upon a time did the headlines, now she's in the headlines. >> state department's spokesperson heather nauert. >> multiple reports this morning she had an issue with a nanny. plus a story on jussie smollett

continues to change on suggestions he may have staged that assault. >> i want them to stop being able to say alleged attack. you do such a disservice when you lie about things like this. the lawsuits against president trump and his administration are piling up. >> look, i expect to be sued. i shouldn't be shoed. very rarely do you get sued -- >> if you're looking for all of this to end, you are not the only one. >> will be released accompanied by the house of cards and do a few months in a postal factory and my personal hell of playing president will finally be over. >> we're going to begin this

morning with some personnel news. there is tumultiin turtle bay. overnight state department spokesperson heather nauert issuing a statement saying the intense scrutiny has been extremely difficult. the past two months have been grueling for my family, she writes, and therefore it is the best interest of my family i withdraw my name from consideration. serving in the administration for the past two years has been one of the highest honors of my life. it seems there's another reason she called it quits. several news outlets reported this morning there was an issue with a nauert family nanny who was in the united states illegally but did not have authorization to work here.

we had this national announcement earlier this week, doesn't jive well with advancing a position like this. >> i think her challenge is she promoted conspiracies with sh sharia law. >> i mentioned she was a fox news anchor before this story broke about this nanny and a lot of people said is this woman qualified for this position. >> there's a real interesting problem that president trump has and i think some democratic presidential nominees of one who's less interventionist might have as well, which is this, the foreign policy establishment in

washington, d.c. is compared to the american people much more hawkish, right? nikki haley is not -- so, yes, she was woefully underqualified for this post, so is kind of a lot of people in the trump administration. you look around for someone who shares his beliefs or stated intentions that we should be withdrawing from afghanistan and syria and elsewhere, there's just not a lot of people democrat or republican thabelieve in that. that's an interesting conundrum going forward. i wish there was more of a bench to support some of those goals, but there just isn't and so that's part of this thing. on th on that point, you have nikki haley, and one of the nicest good-byes we've seen in this

administration, but she disagreed from the secretary of state from time to time, she disagreed with the president from time to time. how much is that missed at this point? >> i don't think anyone thinks she would have filled those shoes. one of the reasons that people on the international stage thought of nikki haley as so effective she did carry some gravitas, did come from the position of being governor. heather nauert didn't have these qualifications. they didn't come up with an excuse here. they said, well, there's a nanny issue so she can't do this job. listen, in terms of what role she will play or whatever the u.n. ambassador will play, there's still a lot of disagreement about foreign policy. it's not clear we have someone who can stand up to president trump and say this is terrible idea.

and you need someone who's going to be able to not just stand up internally but stand up to the ambassador from china, from russia and all over the world. and it's not clear there's any clarity who that's going to be. >> i think this is something every administration had to deal with. >> this goes way back. >> reporting this morning there was confidence she would be able to right this. how big of an issue was this? >> this is an issue that reads she's not going to be working in the administration at all anymore. it's not just you're being withdrawn from consideration as ambassador to united nations, but she's not going to be working for this administration anymore. i think that's a very telling thing. importantly she's out of the running, but who's up next? who's now going to be the face and voice of the collective us to be able to go to an organization that trump himself has said is worthless, pompeo

has said is worthless. so i'm thinking kimberley gilfoy is next. it's got to be somebody from fox. who's teed up next? and that is somebody definitely the echo chamber surrogate for trump i think who could serve in the international role. >> it probably serves trump to keep understaffing our government in these key positions. he's not urgently needing to fill the slot according to his world view. so in a twisted way he's winning by further undermining our norms. >> you have to look at this with what happened on friday in the rose garden. the president declaring this national emergency. here we are talking about immigration i guess in a different perspective. how does that color all this for you? if it's residence or a different

prism in which you're looking at. >> no, there has been from the beginning, there's been so much turnover personnel in this administration it's unprecedented. like 2, 3x times everything. and there's a lot of incoherence. i think there's more coherence to the trump foreign policy idea than critics give him credit for, but there's critical centers within his power structures and from all reports she didn't want this job. she was doing actually from what i understand she was doing a pretty decent job as a spokesperson. >> i want to put up this tweet. he says the cruel irany of this is that while nauert was unqualified to be ambassador she

was one -- >> i will pluck that person over here even though that person hadn't gone through a background check or any kind of serious vetting here. so you're going to -- >> exactly. but just as telling are the excuses here to pull her from nomination. obviously this has hurt the nanny issue or, you know, employing undumed immigrants has hurt people throughout history when they're up for administration posts. not in this administration. as you pointed out the president has a history of this. wilbur ross has a history of this and other people in the administration. >> and that scale. >> and we're supposed to just say oh, must be a nanny problem, let's move on and talk about personnel. there's a bigger issue here. >> but would it have been polled pre-november mid-terms? do you feel this is reaction to

there's a shift of better power structure in congress or just doing some voodoo -- >> i don't think there's any real humility in facing the democratic congress. >> and we haven't seen a resistance reflected in confirmation votes. we had a confirmation vote last week. one republican voted against, three democrats voted for. >> something caught my eye this week. secretary of state mike pompeo was traveling overseas and he spoke about the trump doctrine. we know there was an obama doctrine and jeff goldberg now former editor of the atlantic wrote about it. something he addressed in that piece is how long it took to get to that point, for a sitting president to have a cohesive foreign doctrine. so in light of what we're

talking about here, all these different pillars of foreign policy we talked about america first being a foreign policy. >> the answer is sometimes. listen clearly america first is his idea, and we do know another big part of the idea is we're meant to believe he's a noninterventionist president. obviously that's not been the case, but sometimes that is the case. what he thinks of america first obviously it means trump first. and that means having all sorts of distinct things he can point to. we're taking troops out of syria or making a deal with north korea. and a lot of this is checking things off a checklist and basically saying obama didn't do this. getting rid of the iran deal, obviously these are some things some very serious foreign policy thinks want to see happen. but when you see trump going through his checklist it's

things obama did i want to undo. >> and this is something heather or whoever replaces her now is going to have to deal with. >> for somebody like me who lives in south florida it is a serious legitimate issue. this is not something you would read about on the daily paper or internet. so the influx or actual flight of people from a country has to be addressed. and yet this administration has kind of just played lip service, but now they're saying okay now we're going to go send some help, we're going to participate in that. well, why exactly is that? this administration is turnover on steroids and we're always looking for somebody to trumpet exactly what the trump line is. but what's problematic is no one's really taken the time to peel back the layer on the onion and i feel like venezuela is an unavoidable burr in the shoe for donald trump. >> he's mentioned this in his

speeches in 217 he talked about how america's not going to be getting involved in regime change wars abroad. as part of that the sphere of influence closer to home is much more monroe doctrine. he talks about venezuela, he talks about cuba in a much more aggressive stance than obama did. and george w. bush kind of reintroduced cracking down on cuba. i think he's less interventionist when it comes to afghanistan and the middle east, but much more interventionist locally. i'll give you the last question sticking with history here. it's a burr in the shoe. it's going to be there for a long time, what's happening in venezuela. erosion has happened around nicali

nicolas maduro. >> i wish the idea of intervention -- so let me break it down, we have an alleged crisis at the border and he is proud of turning away caravans of women and children seeking shelter from criminally run nations. not willing to look at the root cause of why those people are fleeing with their entire families. so he's willing to do whatever it takes in venezuela but has no analysis stated about going to guatemala and other central american countries, which is leading to the crisis he alleges he has named. so there is something broken here. obviously his logic isn't pure, but venezuela i think is also a good contrast to other parts of latin america that he claims is sending us a crisis. >> back here in just a second with a story that's captivated the country. more of the overnight developments in that steory nex. developments in that steory next . ♪ ♪

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welcome back to up. i'm david gura. new developments this morning in the investigation in the attack against empire jussie smollett who initially described it as racist and homophobic. tells nbc news there's a new focus today on whether the actor staged that assault. in january jussie smollett filed a report with the department saying two masked men who recognized him from empire ambushed him and beat him up for being black and gay. this is from a recent interview

with abc news. this is what he had to say. >> it felt like minutes, but it probably was like 30 seconds. honestly. i can't tell you, honestly. i noticed the rope around my neck and i started screaming, and i said there's a [ bleep ] rope around my neck. >> she's an nbc news correspondent who's been following this story. get us up to speed here. a lawyer for the actor saying he stands by this story in light of all of this. >> a lot has transpired in just the last two days. the big breaking news overnight are police are looking into whether smollett paid the two men to stage his own attack. and chicago police issued a statement overnight and it reads we can confirm that the information received from the individuals questioned by police earlier in the "empire" case has in fact shifted the trajectory of the investigation. and the individuals or the two men that police took into

custody on friday, but they after further questioning they were later released overnight. police went as far as searching the home of these two men. brothers who apparently had connections to the show empire. one of them was even an extra on the show. but police had mentionedthrust no evidence that surfaced and that's why they were released. they didn't clarify exactly what that evidence was. so here we are this morning, as you mentioned the attorney for smollett is now denying these latest suggestions. and also he issued a statement as well. and it says as a victim of a hate crime who has cooperated with the police investigation, jussie smollett is angered and devastated by recent reports that the perpetrators are individuals he is familiar with. and the statement goes onto say that one of the men actually was a personal trainer of smolletts and was helping him get ready for an upcoming music video.

but, you know, when the story broke on january 29th, smollett, his story was that these two men attacked him at 2:00 a.m. while he was heading to the subway. they were masked men and they were hurling racist and homo homophobic slurs. he caught one of the men saying maga country. but after further investigation with police, police had combed through hundreds of hours of surveillance video, and they weren't actually able to pinpoint where the attack happened. so there was a lot of speculation this was perhaps a hoax. really it remain tuesday be seen. still a lot of questions out there, and one speculation by local media that perhaps the motive was that he was being written off the show. but producers were dismissing that claim. >> thank you very much. cathy park giving us that update. let me start with you and the cauldron in which all of this happened and the actor kind of

pushed it into the that very early on and in that abc news interview he was asked why he thought he was targeted. and he said i came really against the president's administration. i guess my first question is what you make of all of this. it's just been a couple of weeks since this happened but very quickly you saw other politicians, other actors jumping onto this story. certainly buying what we knew from the report he filed. >> and i sent a supportive tweet myself sending love and light. i was literally on my way to montgomery, alabama, when the news of this broke. i was going to the museum, the national memorial for peace and justice also known as the lynching museum, real victims of real hate crimes whose stories have not been told fully are finally being told. and everyone should visit that museum. if jussy smollett is being dishonest of what happened to him, he's dishonoring the memory

of those lost souls who are still living under that terror. gay people living under terror, black people and all kinds of folks who are really suffering. so i still hope he's being honest and not wasting taxpayer resources, not wasting empathy, not aiding and abetting the friends of the president who he says he opposes. and it's really mostly harmful to people who are actually suffering because he's taken the light off of them and but doubt into the minds of anyone else who hears stories of suffering like this in the future. >> you have questions like i do, but i'll mention how this is providing fuel for the president and his allies, and his son as well. tweeting this. it appears that jussie smollett tried to manufacture a hate crime to make trump supporters look bad. there was a lot of push back the media got for saying this was an alength

alleged attack, how could you be doing that. there's certainly i think a robust discussion. >> especially if you look at the reporting on it, a lot of folks have been following what's happening. but this has turned into a national political football as perhaps it always was going to. as to the question it was a media story, perhaps if it's going to be in this trump sphere. but for as you say allies of the president and friends of the president to turn it into a story of fake news media not only moves it away from the questions of the very real rise in hate crimes and very real divisions that are out and turns it into a cynical story, and it may indeed be a cynical tale we're telling here. but the idea there is some sort of disingenuous reporting around this as a way to attack the president is simply not how this has been playing out. >> cathy allude today the fact that there was no video footage of this. in the early days after it took

place, that part of chicago was sort of scrubbed to find footage. there were a lot of camera tlz. when did you start asking questions about what happened yourself? >> and that's a good point. because the ark of the story initially has been when he made this report is there was no video of it. people were like where's this corroborating evidence? well, by all accounts now the attack occurred what the question is did he pay the nigerian brothers $4,000 to do it because the reports do confirm that the brothers have said the following, and remember this is the source of the brothers. they went, bought the rope at a local nearby hardware store, they brought bleach, they did these things. they put a rope around his neck, bought red hats, i don't know if they said maga or not and then they threw slurs at him. so the question is whether they were paid to do it. i'm a form prosecutor and i

wantificates and evidence, and this is what i have so far. i don't have police charging him with a crime. it is a class four felony him being jussie smollett, they've not charged him with a class four felony of making a false claim to police. it's a serious offense. but i would say on the other side he's black and he's gay, and if this is not true he's undermined the credibility of blacks, gays, it's a combination effect with a horrible, horrible consequence not only for him criminally and i know he actually lawyered up. he got a criminal defense attorney which i thought was a bad seen. as a lawyer you obviously don't want to have a client that's being questioned. but he doubled down today. his statement was it happened and i'm sorry to learn it was people i actually knew. >> matt welsh, you're reaction to all of this. the big question then would be why would he do this?

>> but i think there's a cautionary tale for all us in this here, which is the details of the story were fantastical from the beginning. 2:00 a.m., polar vortex, subway sandwich being open at 2:00 a.m., that's already crazy but it's true. all of it. i couldn't believe it's all true. in moments like this when you have a very lurid fantastical sounding crime of any part of the political spectrum it might refer to, if authorize no corroborating evidence for that story, witnesses to come in and say x, y, z video or whatever, it's okay to sit on your hands for 16 hours and not tweet. i'm not casting aspirations especially with the way you handled all this eloquently in our comments here today. but i mean half of the presidential field on the democratic side came in and

talked about this. how many think pieces were written about this is reflective of trump's america and so on and so forth. just sit on your hands, wait for some corroborating detail. we need more evidence in this light. we don't all need to think like prosecutors or lawyers but a little bit, especially among my fellow journalists on twitter, not the journalists themselves who were covering this in chicago who have been great. but a lot of people commenting on this were not great. sit on your hands. >> points to the miss cleo here. >> it's not what wii signed up for. and i hope we can get through this, and if he's not telling the truth, i hope that's found out. coming up here how sarah sanders, paul manafort and roger stone greeted the new attorney general on his first day on the job. here is how president trump welcomed him on "snl." >> attorney general william barr, please stand up will you?

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william barr was sworn in as the 85th attorney general of the united states on friday. uneventful it wasn't. he had a front row seat for president trump's discursive

hour long comments on national policy, and there was as there often is on fridays a russia investigation news dump. >> breaking news, a judge has issued a partial gag order in the roger stone case. >> this is the first time we've ever reported this. white house press secretary sarah huckabee-sanders was interviewed by mueller's prosecutors. >> breaking news in the ongoing cases, prosecutors are asking the jung for a jail sentence of approximately 19 to 24 years. >> mueller's prosecutors today telling a federal judge in washington, d.c. that they've got the communications between roger stone and russian military intelligence. >> busy afternoon and evening. we're visiting the final three comments the president made in that rose garden ceremony on friday. >> i want to wish our new attorney general great luck and speed and enjoy your life. real good luck. >> katey, what a day it was. talk a bit about what that says about the challenges bill barr

is going to face. we had a preview of this. >> barr has been dropped to his knees in the rose guard to commit harikari. typical trump fashion, he punted -- he punted responsibility for everything to bill barr. now bill barr takes over that litany of things we talked about in the mueller investigation on friday. manafort, sanders, roger stone, fill in the blank, maybe donald trump, jr.'s next. but this issue involving no real national emergency is dumped on the doorstep of bill barr. bill barr constant professional that he is allege today be i'm sure he's already been vetted for how he's going to deal with something like this. i'm sure he had a confrgz before he was even nominated on if i were to, you know, hypothetical like in law school, david high

thetically should i declare a national emergency, what would your reaction be as the head of the department of just sns i think it's a great idea, it's completely legally sound. we know barr is ready for this and he's up for the job. >> one of the most telling things to me in that whole clip, and that whole statement and rose garden experience -- >> i want my ticket back. >> he said enjoy your life, which was such to me, and just flash to an image of jeff sessions sitting somewhere in alabama like oh, good luck. >> not it. been there, done that. >> and bill barr has the weight on the world on him now. is he respected in washington as a professional, yeah sure and he was indeed confirmed with a little bit of democratic support. but at the end of the day here he's going to get so much pressure from everyone on these things. you already have some conservative commentators saying

now that barr is here get ready mueller is going soon. >> kimmerby from "the wall street journal", she wrote in her piece is the overriding challenging isn challenging is to reboot -- i thought this is guy who has roamed the halls of the rfk building before. what do you make of this, the challenge he faces and what kimberly strauss is bringing out, there's work to be done here outside of these investigations? >> this is the kind of pro-trump view of the justice department

or trump sympathetic view it needed to be from the top and ripped up and there's an obama culture. i think most of that is pretty well exaggerated. but talking all kinds of trash about the fbi and cia, just about the deep state, the legal state around him. and so that is probably going to be the single biggest balancing act. and this has bedevilled people and you show up and what happens you talk to the people who work in this department who are generally career people, have been there a long time and sin themselves as patriotic. i have a hard time thinking he's going to go in there with a big reformist agenda to make kimberley straussal proud of changing the culture at the justice department. >> the president recognizes government lawyers are going to

spend a lot more time in court defending his national emergency. citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington, a crew board member richard painter will join us next to talk about that case. painter will join us next to talk about that case. meet o, that's good! frozen pizza one third of our classic crust is made with cauliflower but that's not stopping anyone o, that's good!

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♪ hey. applebee's to go. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. look, i expect to be sued. i shouldn't be sued. very rarely do you get sued when you do national emergency. >> president trump is being suedch el paso, texas, laid out its plans before the president

even made that announcement. it's one of the many places challenging or more likely to challenge the president's declaration. there are also student organizatio organizations as well. crew is arguing we have not seen the justification for the national emergency. quote, the department of justice's office of legal counsel failed to provide documents concerning the legal authority of the president to invoke emergency powers to declare a national emergency to build a wall along america's southern border. richard painter is a crew board member. he was the chief ethics lawyer for president george w. bush. great to see you after a long while. and i'm holding here the four pang complaint from crew. talk about the strategy here crew has decided to pursue. >> well, i'm not going to speak on behalf of crew in its entirety. but i will say there are two serious problems with the

epresident's position. first, this is not a national emergency as set forth in the statute, the national emergencies act. this is not an emergency. this is an immigration problem, illegal immigration problem has been with us for decades and indeed is on a much lower scale today than it has been in some past years. it is not a national emergency within the meaning of the statute. second, if it were deemed to be a national emergency in that statute, if the statute were that broad to allow this it would probably be unconstitutional because what the president is doing here is raiding funds that had been appropriated for congress and for the defense budget and using them for something that has absolutely nothing to do with the national defense to address illegal immigration, whichson a economic problem for the united states, not a national defense problem. the constitution gives congress the power to levy taxes, and

congress through statutes that are signed by the president or vetoed by the president, those statutes allocates the funds to the various departments of the united states government. the president here is seizing poweller th power that belongs to the president and congress. and congress should sue as well here, and it's amazing that republicans will go along with this. republicans, and i've been with the republican party for 30 years until i quit last year just fed up with trump and his attitude. but that republicans would go along with this, the type of spending and allow the president to just raid the budget aproechted aproech appropriated by congress for whatever he wants to build, and it doesn't matter if it's a wall ear anything else, this is going to come back to haunt the republicans. >> you've got eminent domain as well. survey the landscape for us. you've got places doing this,

organizations doing this. there are going to be a lot of lawsuits filed as a result of what the president declared on friday. how's it all going to play out? >> fun ayou should use the word sla landscape. two, more importantly the eminent domain question, fifth amendment of the united states constitution has the takings clause. can't take away your private property for public use without just compensation. it will literally take years on these lawsuits for just compensation alone. if you're a private landowner, arizona, texas, you can negotiate what you think is a fair and just price from the land that is being stolen from you from this nonemergency, and maybe you're a trump supporter and you're happy to do it, but if not you could tie this for up years. it seeks inclaratory and

injunkatiinjun injunctive relief. you have all these federal judges that enter these temporary injunctions and it shuts everything down. what is donald trump going to do when you show up on private land, knock on the door and say i'm ready with my bulldozer to bulldoze your land, and a private landowner says get the heck out of here. and a lot of his trump base is in that area, and these are people that have held this land for decades generationally in their family, you think they're going to support this, and they don't. >> these dozen or so words the president uttered to my colleague is going to resonate in courtroom after courtroom. i i didn't need to do this, but i needed to do this much faster.

>> he knows this is going to be stuck in lawsuits for years to come, and he said i'm going to be sued on this, i look forward to the fight. this is fight he like tuesday have politically speaking. and i'm saying it's going to work for him but he certainly thinks. they command the attention over 68 million twitter and facebook users between them, so how can the 2020 hopefuls make sure they stand out from the crowd. we'll dig into that next. woman 1: i had no symptoms of hepatitis c.

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that's kamala harris trying on what i would i say is a garish colorful jacket yesterday and it got a lot of replay and criticism with social media playing an outsized role in this campaign. beto roark's dentist appointment, elizabeth warren beer night. it's followed closely by senator warren and sanders as well. i will start with you and put up some of the stats in that oex oes pie axios piece. looking at instagram -- 14.4 million, axios speak we know the big picture, the size of social media platforms makes for a useful barometer in public opinion and interest and level

of enthusiasm they say is difficult to capture with traditional polling. >> i think they should emphasize a little picture. they only write 400-word stories and it's a bullet point. >> part of this is kamala harris had the best rollout. certainly elizabeth warren has not had the best reflections out there. bet bowio o'roureto roark domine did for senate and he announces this month he will run, i think you will see him go way up in the fields. i'm not sure the grant meeting of it all. the good part about all of is is there are so many different ways for candidates to call him him or her attention. you don't have to do it the single one way we're and that

leads to creativity. good for me, totally embarrassing moments from people who shouldn't do things like that. >> you've got people who want to match kamala harris i suppose. i mentioned the beer moment. some people are good and some -- i say this as a social media practitioner. some people are good, some people are not. >> the bigger point here is we shouldn't look at this as a leaderboard right now. but it is a recognition a lot of those folks will fight each other for attention the next few months. as we discussed for the last 45 minutes, donald trump kind of dominates things. so what they're going do and try to do is find different ways to break through. the reason we shouldn't look at it as a leaderboard, this isn't a full field yet and one person is bernie sanders, who has enormous spoeshl following. >> but his numbers are great. >> and he's own facebook. >> trying to create their own cerebral networks, put their

videos online and tark to voters that way. it's simple because they can control the message that way. it's not all gimmicks. people talk about beto o'rourke going to the dentist, he wasn't trying to live stream his teeth cleaning there but that's just not something we have seen before. and beto will show the video to announce his candidacy or ex-moretory. you look at core write booker, someone slipped up on the show and called it nad, video content. that's sort of how one presents themselves now. >> gave you the word attention and that's the kucurrency and that's what we're playing with. the president is good at manipulating it and riding it to certain heights and whoever can do that will have a big advantage. numbers on the wall, irpt actio interactions are positive and negative. if you look at the mentions in

the comments, there are a flood of right wing activity against some of these candidates as well in that noise. and my last request for all of us who are commenting on the election right now, now picking winners and losers, let's ask voters what they want. let's go out and talk to people about what they're looking for in the next president. >> like more teeth cleaning? >> rather than prescribing based on social media followings or interactions or some vague sense of electability or likability. let's define elect ability bin the actual meaning of it, who do people want to elect, what issues and what matters to them? >> i will ask you about the jacket, let's go full circle. >> the fashion lady at the table. >> no. >> you talk about how social media allows them to cultivate or craft their own image. this was an example of them not working. there were many surrounding this. >> i will puft jut the gender card out there. she as in kamala harris was going to small business owners.

that was the purpose of what happened. it wasn't let me go try on questionably for me, i don't think the colors would have worked for my skin tone. but it wasn't let's go try on that jacket. it's let me see you interface -- by the way, somebody said she did buy the jacket, so she's contributing. supporting small businesses. and that's what they're talking about. what do the people want? they may not be looking for -- by the way, there's going to be a red line on what people really want to ski you doing on the privacy of your home but my concern in this as well, are we alienating or missing a vote population of people who don't have access to social media. my 75-year-old mother who's amazing, she's is not on twitter. she's not! >> she is now. >> we have to leave it there. i'm so sorry. joining us in new york katie phang and matt held. next hour, the controversial story that has jussie smollett

being eyes as making up his attack. and the gop strategy to de-feis the 20-point democrat when we come back. come back. to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪

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i'm david gura. according to fbi data, hate crimes are on the rise in the united states, up by 17% just

last year. a searing moment in recent history was, of course, the white supremacist rally in charlottesville, virginia. that's searing moment followed several days later by this unforgettable comment from president trump -- >> i think there's blame on both sides. you look at both sides, i think there's blame on both sides. >> trump administration has dismantled lawsuit law protecting lgbtq americans, new prohibitions who can serve in the military and who cannot. and late last month this hand -- >> i see the attacker. he said this maga country [ bleep ] punches me right in the face. >> jussie smollett, who is black and day, claimed he was asaumted in chicago because of who he is and because of the criticism he's levied against the trump administration. this morning there was new reporting, the chauicago police

department is focusing whether or not jussie smollett staged that attack. up next a columnist for "the los angeles times," host of trumpcasts as well, michelle goldberg is a columnist for "the new york times" and it's it's contributor and philip bump to my right, national reporter for "the national post." we have been watching this unfold the last two weeks. this is our latest twin and turn. but your reaction to it, the police department is changing the focus of the investigation. >> so jussie's story has been consistent from the beginning. it's the police have shifting accounts. >> maintains it is. >> on friday they said they had probable cause to believe these two men committed the crime and now apparently they don't. as a former law enforcement officer, i think we're probably never going to know exactly what happened, which makes this more like other cases. there's some myth that police solve crimes, they don't solve most crimes. david, if you call the cops and say that someone stole your iphone, the police are not going

to find your iphone, hate to break that to you. and the clearance rate for murder in chicago 25%, which means three out of four people who commit murder get away with it. there's a lot we don't know. focus on what we do know. what is is victims should be respected and trusted and honored. the other is as you say, hate crimes have gone up according to the fbi 20% increase in the first year of the trump administration. and the final thing is something that jussie said a couple days after this, he said if anybody's getting attacked for being black and day, he's going to be blacker and day gayer. what that says is controversy to what trump says, our diversity is not what makes us weak. our diversity makes us strong. >> lolla is here, she's the host of "entertainment weekly."

and it's great to have you here again. it didn't take more than hours before we saw a lot of people weighing in on what allegedly hand in chicago at 2:00 a.m. according to jussie smollett. help us understand that phenomenon. yes, the legal sides of things paul butler is talking about, law enforcement sides of things but this is a culture thing as well. >> interestingly enough, jussie smollett wasn't quite a household name but he was beloved by "empire" fans, and i think the outpouring of support he received from a number of people from ellen degeneres to kamala harris spoke to how much of a mentor and person he's been and active member of the lgbtq community. this is an uh-nfortunate event. there have been conversations since day one. there were private conversations on twitter about the voracity of this story. people publicly supported him but quietly questioned whether or not the story was true,

questioned the plausibility of the story. i think if it is unfortunate, and a hoax, i think it will be deeply problematic for his career and trajectory of his career. >> this caught fire, it's fair to say. yes, there were questions raised about voracity as lolla said but this attracted a lot of question, in large part, i contextualized at the top of the show. >> we're is used -- obviously, msnbc is devoted to seeing things in a political context. jussie smollett said it forward in a political context and that's how it's been interpreted. we do leave a side with our president, so wrapped up in the rose garden, we leave aside other explanations, namely mental illness. this is a very difficult time for a lot of people, even personally and emotionally. in the climate of hate crimes, there are going to be certain kinds of delusions and i don't think we need to instantly say that this one in particular is a political issue.

if he indeed hired people to beat him up, that's a psychological issue and not political one. >> michelle, weigh in on that if you would. i think it's a political issue only because it, unfortunately, needs into -- it feeds into this narrative of the victimization by the right, by the sort of maga world that they constantly feel that tear being blamed for creating a climate of hate that they don't feel responsible for. i would dispute that. i think in broad strokes they are, but this is going to give them more ammunition both to talk about -- both to kind of dispute that and to, you know, complain about the media, even though the media coverage of this has actually pretty closely tracked what the information that we were getting from the please. so, right? and then kinds of changed the story as new reporting came from but i don't think that message, you already see -- i think donald trump tweeting about this. i also think one thing that can

be really unfortunate about this is that i think it's important that the rule coming out of this is we don't sort of adopt a suspicion when it comes to hate crimes. i still feel like after this, after the rolling stone uva hoax, you still want to i think default to not believing victims credibly, not accepting everything they say, but treating their accounts with respect. and sort of assuming by and large people don't make this sort of stuff up, even if in like occasional high pressure cas, high-profile cases they do. >> i will turn back to you. at the new yorker, they were talking about this point in time and how you cover stories like this. jamie sort of urging ash as i read the exchange -- to pause. we jump on to these stories

quickly. king saying this is odd. we don't jump on things or have that luxury anymore. i will play the highlight. do we move too fast? we all moved too quickly. >> michelle currently works at "the new york times." virginia and i are alums. we all paused and waited for information about this story because there's a need to be right instead of fist. now we live in an era where we need to be first necessarily than being right because there's a feeling you can update the story. people in a rush to get the story out first sometimes are not waiting for the right story to unfold. not that this is happen here. michelle makes a point journalists have been good to update the story as it progressed but ten years ago this story would not have run day one. i couldn't have taken this story to the new york editor ten years ago and have it run ten is as day one. my editor would have asked me to

go out and do more digging. >> the man from national post here, "the new york times" and the presence of staff here. >> thank you. >> we look at this and what hand with buzzfeed story, the hit buzzfeed and media at large took as a result of this. the media will be cast in this light, doubts will be raised about this. you're having that happen here as well. let's put it in the political cal drone. we mentioned the tweet from donald trump jr. he calls out the media explicitly in that tweet. we uncritically accepted his lies for facts as weeks according to donald trump jr. >> obviously is the case donald trump jr. is not a reliable narrator in the united states of america. he's the person with the most obvious bias in american politics. that's reflected there. one thing we're quick to do here also is take small populations and extrapolate outwards. what donald trump jr. is doing

there taking one or two things in the smollett story on the outside and saying this is the liberal media at large. i think there's a different issue here with democratic elected officials. democratic elected officials also quickly ran with the initial version of the story because there's a value in doing so. we've seen a lot of democratic public officials rise to national prominence because of their strength on social media. this is -- of course, alexandra cocaine cocaine, massive twit r oscasio-cortez, she's very effective on social media. there is value in politicians to doing that but value as noted and i think matt welsh made a great point in the prior segment, there is value to all of us sitting on that for a second on our hands as matt put it and case for elected officials for whom i think there's a much bigger risk of failure. >> at this moment again it's not resolved. it's not been proven smollett

made anything up. oftentimes we have a hard time understanding people of color as victims. but actually african-american men much more likely to be victims of crimes, survivors of trauma than most other people. and so to the except of what we learned from me too is that when people report assaults that they should be respected, that their testimony should be honored, that remains true in this case. >> you and i have talked so many times the political pressure law enforcement he has been under the last couple of years. talk about the context if you would, a heated political issue from the very beginning, how much do you think that's weighing on those in chicago trying to do the policing? what's your counsel for those outside of the culture here just looking at the case itself? >> it's huge. i'm a native son in chicago, born and raised there. police and african-american community, mad issues. part of this was an opportunity for the chicago police to prove after cases like mcdonald, where

one of their own shot a young black man 16 times, was convicted of murder thanks to brave african-american prosecutor who brought the case after another prosecutor sat on it for a year. so there's a lot of baggage and whether communities of color can trust the police. i'm not sure where this story fits into the narrative. on the one hand they did take victimization of an african-american man seriously but at the same time a lot of leaks have come from them as well. so i think when people don't trust the police, you're not sure what to believe. and so when i think of all of this stuff adds separate, laquan mcdonald, what does that have to do with jussie smollett? but when folks don't have confidence in the people who are supposed to protect them, even when you need folks, even when you want to call 911 because there's an emergency, you can't rely on the kind of service you're going to get from the

government, if you're a person of color. >> let's come back in a moment. lolla, thank you so much for joining us from washington, d.c. this morning. up ahead -- questions over why the president's pick for u.n. envoy dropped out of the running. separate reports asking does heather gnaw e heather have a nanny problem heather have a nanny pro . blemelse? are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today. you might or joints.hing for your heart... ♪ but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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i'm david gurio. heather nauert is withdrawing her name from consideration. they said she had a nanny who was in the country legally but did not have a work permit. a source by "the washington post" claimed the woman worked for nauert about a decade and was played in cash. in a statement nauert does not mention the issue. she says the past few months have been grueling for my family and, therefore, it's in the best interest i withdraw my name from conversation. the nanny issue is not a good look after a declaration of a imagination nj tied to immigration and document in "the washington post" and "the new york times" about trump businesses filled with undocumented immigrants. let met start with you. secretary of state mike pompeo brought nauert into the inner circle and there was a period of time about who might replace

sarah huckabee sanders should she leave. she hasn't left. no news to break on that front this morning. and she gets this nod, not even a nomination. it wasn't efficiently tendered. what do you make about all of this? >> nauert is a remarkable person in the trump administration because of how much she encompasses about the administration itself. she's a person trump first became familiar with when she was working on "fox & friends" and she gets this potential nomination to the u.n. which is apparently derailed by these questions about the person that worked for her at the same time the president is totally skates on the same issue. "the post" has done a lot of reporting about the people who worked for his properties, worked for his property up in westchester county, for example, where they were called in, the facilities were closed for the season. they had to come in and told by

their bosses they were fired because they lacked proper documentation. it is amazing to me nauert is in a position where because she has a comparatively less problematic issue with someone who's working in the country, who is now native american, she's unable to have this particular position when there were questions about whether or not she should be in the position anyway. there's a weird encapsulation of everything that is trump and weirdly she is saying for something he doesn't seem to have a problem with. >> this bazaizarre thing, i ass there's something else going on and this is the pretext. if this is the reason and this is a bizarre thing she's being derailed for sexist reasons from a position she's absolutely unqualified to hold. so she should have -- it was obscene that she was given this job in the first place for which she has no qualifications. >> samantha power, she's not. >> and yet it's sort of bizarre hiring -- which normal administrations we know hiring a

nanny off the books has been problematic for a whole bunch of people. in this administration where you have a president who hires countless people off the books, i believe wilbur ross had somebody with a problem immigration status, first lady herself worked in the united states we believe with kind of dubious -- i'm not sure exactly if it was a problem with her immigration status but she didn't have the correct visa until she got the einstein visa. so the idea this would derail this particular person, on the one hand it's kind of a throwback to when we had a normal administration who took the rule of law seriously but because this administration has serious contempt for normal rules, it's hard to believe this is the real reason. >> we still have a position of power that we just can't find people to fill the jobs? you look at all of the vacancies in the administration. the president tweeting there are vacancies to be filled yet.

is that the issue, he can't get qualified people to do the jobs? >> not just get people, americans to do the job undocumented folks do, best line in "hamilton" immigrants, they get the job done. when we look at people like the trump organization and nauert hiring people who don't have the proper documentation, it's not because they want to higher people who are in the country without the documents, it's because they are the people who can do the work and do it well. in reality, without undocumented workers, our economy would grind to a halt. and so we need to recognize that. yes, we need responsible immigration laws. there's nothing wrong with wanting to know who's coming in and out of the country. but we can't have this war against people without documents. >> virginia, we had ee vafrpgia trump helping pick the new head of the world bank. reportedly she will be back to help pick the man or woman to replace dina powell who left the administration.

the ambassador to canada, wealthy women as well. richard crennel are some of the names to be rumored in the running this morning. the president began discussing this last night. >> when trump was first elected, republican operatives i knew said they had been offered the greatest jobs of their lives, an ambassadorship or even a high-level position in the cabinet. and then declined. unprincipled but we already knew trump turned on everyone. it was just a fool's game. these are people that like would have killed for that under george w. bush, and now suddenly they didn't want it. so we went to the c list, we went to the d list, we went back past every kind of person who had been vetted and could pass this. lawyers, i had friends of mine who were lawyers who a simple working lawyers had to vet their nannies, pay them on the books. it's an elaborate process.

there's all kinds of software for doing this. it was simply to keep their bar affiliation. we have people who do reality tv or they are news readers and do "fox & friends" carney kind of stuff and of course they aren't able to pass any of this. that's how we end up with jared kushner, who can't pass his sf-86 to save his life. >> ivanka trump i don't think can be on a board of a charity in new york. >> exactly. >> but she can represent the united states in munich. >> the last point, to michelle's point, another reason she doesn't want it is these positions that ivanka's actually been stuck in, being on the world stage, showing up at the pence speech in front of europeans who would not applaud for the president's names, wouldn't applaud for the president's policies, you're a little bit of a chump if you sit in that seat. >> just a little. >> who wants to be at the u.n. with representatives and world

leaders who loathe the president and certainly don't think a realtive carney has a place among them. >> we'll will come back in a moment. he may be out of the administration but back in the headlines. andrew mccabe and leashing a torrent of allegations against the president and his inner circle. ma shelled goldberg has at the table what he's now saying it the commander in chief and former attorney general jeff sessions. orney general jeff sessions (vo) we're carvana,

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welcome back to "up." former deputy director adviser andrew mccabe back in sight. his new book hits store shelves this week. in an excerpt mccahe calls mcca. the panel is back with me. when you look the aall of this, there's a focus what we know outside the book and excerpt we have seen on "60 minutes" on these days in may 2017, all that hand around and this is certainly something he writes about, the anecdotes we have about jeff sessions alleged he's racist, not infrequently. what stands out to you as you

look at this moment with another trump tell-all? >> i think we have sort of lost the ability to see how shocking it is that everybody from the intelligence agencies who interacted with trump left those interactions like extraordinarily alarmed. every single person. we have somehow i think been bought into a false ee kwquival, rosenstein couldn't invoke the 25th amendment. >> straws to draw them, yes. >> i think that trump and his sort of lackeys had sun that as evidence of a destaep state conspiracy when wa it should show is everyone there thought he was a national security threat. >> we heard about this deep state for a very long time. the people who will read this

and treatments we've seen thus far, clear as day, institutionalists, whom who had been in the government a long time, saying what the president doing is not right. what's your response to that? >> really scary. that's what i think when i see trump on the news. at least the people working with him, i don't see him every day, but the people who see him every day have the same kinds of concerns. with mccabe we have two kind of conflicting versions of trump. one is the 25th amendment that he has -- he lacks the mental and intellectual capacity to be president. he's unfit to serve, especially to be the most powerfulp pers p the world. the other is he's a russian asset, a double agent, he's trying to carry out the agenda of vladimir putin and that's the mccabe who suggests we need to open up a counterintelligence investigation of the president

of the united states. >> i think he more seems like a hapless stooge. he has an attenuated sense of reality and more likely to trust his friend vladimir putin than to trust the combined, you know, opinion of all of the american intelligence agencies, one of the more striking moments -- and this was i believe in the excerpt, was when he's talking about how there was a briefing for the president about north korean miss many tests aile tes a hoax. vch vladimir putin told me that and this is what i i believe. >> and the stuff he has to say about jeff sessions. let me read a little bit from the book on the atlantic's website. the fbi was better off when you only hire irishmen about the bureau's workforce. they were drunks but they could be trusted. not like all of those new people with nose rings and tattoos, who knows what they're doing. >> very "no country for old men" scene. >> yes. >> that said, when sessions was

first nominated to run the department of justice, people raised the point that back in the 1980s he had been pushed forward as a federal judge but with his past could not fill that seat. >> 30 years ago. >> yes. and while this was mccabe's administration that fired him punitively, we should add that with a great of salt, this matched with concerns that had been spread about jeff sessions. it is i think not surprising with people broadly which in itself is cause for a lot with a lot of folks. i think the broader question of what andrew mccabe is bringing in the question of the fitness of the president, doesn't have to be about mental investment but is he constituting correctly, for example, how many people coming out of this administration is gone on to write books saying donald trump is doing a great job. we're seeing a guy close to the

president, and if you leave the president, the expectation you're going to write the fantastic things behind the scenes. but he didn't touch on this. >> you brought up mental illness on top of the show. there are intermagss and more than that in a number of anecdotes. this is something people in polite company don't talk about all the time. is this starting to change? as we look at another of the trump library tell-alls, is this starting to change more and more people intermating that alleging that, talking about they question someone's power and fitness to do the most important job in the world? >> in some ways you're right. this will be tabled as a question. 25th amendment fever piqued right before ronnie jackson, the doctor that -- >> recently renominated for north job in the white house. >> naturally, right. as low down as they get. it's like i think in the '80s,

michael eisner at disney had an idea you should always hire out of the betty ford center because the people were basically uninsurable and barely stumbling their way back and that feels like where trump goes now, he tries to hire out of some kind of personal crisis. ronnie jackson, known as the candyman distributing ambien and so forth to everyone, is the person who told us he scored 40 out of 30 or something on the cognitive test. we, of course, have never seen this cognitive tests and cognitive test do not measure psychological stability. right before trump was elected and everyone arm chair speculates about the nars assist thing. but a group of psychiatrists warned against having him as president. i think the ronnie jackson thing did little to really put to rest the idea he's mentally ill. seeing him in the rose garden national emergency speech and

app applebaum said today any grade schooler could not submit that as an essay without sending up red flags for in-patient treatment is required. >> wall, i will get back to you and the rose garden, to that point, this is a speech that required discipline. he's now in great jeopardy. this national emergency is in great jeopardy because of offhanded comment he made to a reporter. we didn't know there would be questions at the rose garden. but it was off the cuff and he dug himself into a deep hole because of that. what do you make of the lack of discipline you saw on display in those remarks on friday? >> as a lawyer, he's a nightmare client. i'm sure for political advisers he's also a nightmare client because in some ways he goes off script and does what a lot of politicians don't do, which is to say what he thinks. but what he thinks is really scary. and to your point, depend, sometimes i don't know if it's, again, mental or intellectual

capacity issue or just a will from ignorance. so at that press conference, he was presented with facts. so it's a fact that undocumented people commit fewer crimes than native-born americans. it's a fact that the number of people who are entering the country without documents is going way down. and he said, i don't believe it. he said that's a lie. it's like, again, the age of enlittelment hasn't hand for him. he's not a rational actor. >> we will come back as i moment, philip has written a great piece about that, about the way the president responded to questions about the facts. the president declaring a national emergency and then heading to mar-a-lago for the long weekend. how is he acting after water was thrown on his latest political move. political move - a potentially serious bacterial lung disease that can disrupt your life for weeks. in severe cases, pneumococcal pneumonia can put you in the hospital.

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at this point you have not determined that specifically a wall is required to meet that national emergency? >> there's been no determinations by me. we're following the law. we're using the rules. and we're not bending the rules. ladies and gentlemen, the acting secretary of defense patrick shanahan saying last night on an airplane he's still mulling over how much money he would redirect to trump's national emergency to build a wall on the u.s./mexico border. it is an issue he said he plans to tackle today. let's go to the history books this morning of the 58 national emergency declarations since the

law allowing such actions was passed in 1976 by president gerald sfaurd ford, this is the first one 0 designed to launch a construction project. first on a national issue or specific crisis like swine flu outbreak 2009, terror attacks of september 11, 2001. in fact 31 national emergencies are still active to this day in the united states as you can see on the wall behind me. philip, let me turn to you first on this issue of being used in this way. we're talking earlier about the legal issues at play here, how this will overflow the courts around this country. help us with the history. how out of the norm is what the president did pri? >> it's far out of the norm. this is a situation where most of these national emergencies are sanctions against people and that's why they're still in play. and it points out congress has

to review these things with regularity. that doesn't happen. this may lead to a reform that would be useful. all of this said, there's a study done by the congressional research service that was published earlier this month, they found there were cases in the past in which the national emergencies act, not through a national emergency declaration but the act itself, there had been times it was used to construction and that was following two things, invasion of kuwait in the early 1990s september 11 attacks. those were the times the department of defense was allowed to do construction work obviously related to the crises not because donald trump didn't get something passed in congress. >> i want to put up a couple of charts here. you look at polling around this and the attitude if there is or isn't an emergency, quinnipiac poll, what did you find? >> it's not popular. two-thirds of the country said you should not declare this national emergency to build the wall. post poll fan in january, building the wall itself is not popular, most americans pose that. it's actually less popular to do

it by declaring a national emergency. now, the question is people are against things all the time then they don't really care about. the except people are going to say hey, this is not something that should happen, the point of tension that beyond all of the lawsuits that have been filed is going to be all of the evident domain filings. i went back and looked at the 2006 law, which built a bunk of barriers on the wall, there are people still having exna-eminen domain fights now. it's not like six months there will be a wall on the border setting aside time to construct the wall because people will fight for their land. >> let's go back and dig into it a little more here. paul karine pressed the president on stats, where do you indeed get the numbers he's citing from cesar juarez friday were radically inflated from a

few weeks ago. i remember all of the fury michael schmidt gave with the president of the united states in mar-a-lago more than a year ago with the random thing michael is submit cachmidt camed said i'll talk to you and he didn't believe it. there's so much pushback, or he should have pushed back on facts and figures we will save that for another time. but what did you make when you talk from brian karen from playboy, he didn't back out. there was a back and forth about the figures. >> he was presented with facts and said that's not true or i don't believe that. when someone for example says the law of gravity, if you drop something and it will go down, and the response is i don't believe that, what do you do with that? the problem is it's not just trump. he's got this base. he's got these 30%, 35% who if trump says, you know, water is not wet, they'll go yes, sir,

mr. president, water is not yet. >> virginia, is it worth doing? i guess that's the broader question i have. do you think it's worth doing to press back in that way? when you look at what came out of that unexpected availability with the president, again, these 12, 13 words he said about his need or lack thereof to do this, that was from not a leading question, just him con temporously speaking about this issue, what do we get from the back and forth on facts? we know he's making this stuff up. is it worth pressing him? >> oh, my god, of course. the pressing him should take a dramatic form. >> prime minister question style? >> yes, exactly. little wilder in the speech of journalists because we need -- it's like how to confront a gas lighter. it isn't more conscientious fact checking. it's more like you're wrong. nope. and it has to be like -- it has to be brusque and it has to catch his attention and turn his

mind. he hears anything that sounds like an orderly essay or an argument, a logical argument, as tiresom, as distracting and also as deceptive and it breaks his stride. i mean, it doesn't break his stride enough. he can easily say that's deep state thinking or that's fake news. and needs to be confronted with simple no, no, no, no over and over and over again. >> we have to go michelle, i want to get your take on this. is it fruitful, worth doing? >> you can understand why print journalists wouldn't do it when you watch how fruitless it is in terms of soliciting information or any acknowledgment his facts are wrong so you understand why some print journalists have given up own it. i think it's really useful in broadcasts so you can actually see it. you can see in realtime how he responds to being contradicted,

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welcome back. some trolling from mitch mcconnell who says the senate will vote on the green new deal, the goal is to put democrats on the record. chuck schumer calls it a cynical stunt but emblematic of a new strategy for progressive proposals publicly. let me start with you, michelle. i started noticing this, certainly came up in the state of the union. you had a line between the socialism we have seen in other countries to socialist views espoused by those in congress today. the green new deal seems an easy thing for republicans to throw out there as an example of this. >> i honestly am completely

agnostic on whether this is going to work. in the past these were the sorts of attacks that sent democrats running scared. >> to the senator. >> exactly. i believe there is a lot of evidence that the political ground shifted significantly. both because trump has done so much to discredit conservativism. there is an opening more a broad new vision. bill clinton was known for it. there is not a lot of appetite for it. the individual elements of the green new deal are popular. most people, i think, rightly believe climate change is a crisis. most people also believe in big new infrastructure projects that will provide good solid middle class jobs. >> justice inequality i will take. you and i could quibble with the details of the green new deal resolution. even more than that with the frequently asked questions

document that i think alexandria ocasio-cortez's staff put out that they shouldn't have. that doesn't represent what's actually in the document. but at the same time, i don't know if after accusing democrats of socialism for everything from, you know, obamacare to way back when, social security, medicare and medicaid. >> michelle is agnostiagnostic. jerry, as democrats face this question could they scare off the center just as it's become so available. are you agnostic about this as well? >> i said to michelle before we started, i would love to see the center relocated and it is being relocated with the trumpists falling off a ledge. the old max boots falling off a ledge and him falling center. conservative intellectuals are in the center. conservative firebrands moved to

the certainty. then michelle who is left of me on one side and me on the other side. then there is none of this. we could have interesting conversations about whether alexandria ocasio-cortez tax is 70%, 75%. msnbc, this panel, four years from now, having a discussion about the fine points of, you know, whether work fair was successful or whether to bring back full-on welfare. where there is a good argument for it. in other words alexandria ocasio-cortez and even bernie sande sanders, there is a robust voice there. you claim socialism if you espouse it with the assaults on other people, elizabeth warren, for her native american jam -- >> issue.

>> are legitimately stinging. there is something you have to cover for. if you share socialist views, for any of us who grew up with real socialism, preberlin wall falling socialism, the idea it would create, first of all, green at all was seen as an elitist as opposed to a labor issue. creating more middle class jobs for the bourgeoisie doesn't sound like that. >> the agnostic attitude toward it, how is it playing? you have trump tweeting about it all the time. is it working? do you see signs it's swaying the electorate? >> three things. first, the democrats have grown increasingly liberal over the last 10, 20 years. they are not as liberal as republicans are conservative but more so the case. twice as much as 20 years ago. second is mcconnell's strategy of putting forward the green new deal. it's a nonstarter.

they tried it with medicare. they are using political tactics i don't think will be effective. the green new deal resolution document itself isn't really about the environment. it's about presenting a vision of an economy that will need to change to address environmental issues and what it should look like. if we look at it, aside from the nonsense and the facts misrepresented about cows and airplanes, if you look at the doms it is a presentation that america has to change. this is what it should change into. >> great to have you here. coming up on a.m. joy, donna brazil with an early forecast on the bid to make donald trump a one-term president. that's next. e-term president that's next. why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. we're the tenney's and we're usaa members for life. call usaa to start saving on insurance today.

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check in from afar with remote access, ♪ and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store. call, or go online today. that does it for me. thank you very much for watching. "a.m. joy" with joy reed starts now. >> hasn't he opened himself up to even more legal challenges? >> i really don't think so. i think the president has been making a persuasive case that the border is broken. i support his desire to get it done sooner rather than later. i'm disappointed that my democratic colleagues would not give the president the money to secure the border. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." republican senator lindsey graham voiced predictable support for donald trump's move to declare a national emergency in order to bypass congress -- where lindsey graham works -- and unlock billions inpa