that i would say. last year president trump noted the ratings potential in dealing with north korea. he summit next week, however, has so counterprogramming to contend with, and that would be michael cohen testifying to congress at the very same time. hmm. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it thursd it's thursday, february 21. we have along with joe and jilly with willie and i, mike barnicle, michael steele. a lieutenant in the coast guard is facing domestic terrorism charges for alleged lily planni

to carry out a mass killing spree. in a detention memo filed this week, prosecutors say he had been cultivating a stockpile of weapons and ammo since 2017 with plans to launch a widespread attack on prominent democratic lawmakers and several high-profile journalists. the search of his silver spring, maryland home found 15 guns and 1,000 rounds of ammunition according to court documents. prosecutors say he embraced extremist views for year and, again, following the manifesto of a white norwegian terrorist to shot and killed 11 people, the same day that he made a list of people to target, he compiled

lists of best place in washington to see people and civil war in trump impeached. those searches on his work computer threw up a red flag for the coast guard. this comes just four months after the arrest of a florida man charged with sending more than a dozen pipe bomb packages to prominent critics of donald trump. the next day a man opened fire at a synagogue killing 11. president trump has repeatedly called for stopping the caravan and claimed without providing any evidence at all that middle easterners and criminal were among the migrants. and all of this comes as the publisher of the "new york times" is reacting to the

president's latest attack following the paper's reporting that raised new questions about obstruction of justice. the president tweeted, quote, the "new york times" reporting is false. they are a true enemy of the people. to which "times" publisher responded in part the phrase "enemy of the people" is not just false, it's dangerous. it has an ugly history of being wielded by dictators and tyrants who sought to control public information. and it is particularly reckless coming from someone whose off gives him broad power to fit. there are mounting signing this incendiary rhetoric is encouraging violence against journalists at home and abroad. and jroger stone going to firin

range is with extremist freaks . >> have a rising call for the klan again. willie, it's not like you had the "new york times" publisher issue this warning. donald trump has been warned repeatedly that talking about enemies of the people is a stalinist phrase, that it will encourage some of his more unhinged followers. you of course had donald trump during the rallies that we talked about when he would tell people if he beat somebody up that's against him, he'd pay for their legal bills. he championed a republican candidate who beat up a journalist for simply asking a question about health care. and so i guess it's just really the timing. we've all known, we've all known that donald trump and his words and his attacks about enemies of the people would lead to this type of behavior.

this is now the second time that we know about, from the pipe bombs to yesterday, but yesterday was obviously far more specific, far more dangerous. and you noknow that it exactly what donald trump is encouraging. >> words are very cheat p to donald trump. he says what he says in the mom to win the day. he loves the new york city and has craved the "new york times"'s attention for 40 years. when he was doing an interview recently, he had to be told by his staff, it's time to go, and he said nobody kicks the great "new york times" out of the office. words are cheap to him but they've cost elsewhere. he's hearing that the media is the enemy of the people, he's talking about politics in terms of war. he takes that to heart. if it takes one person,s th tha

enough. if president trump wants to lead to this rhetoric, it goi's goin lead to certainly bad. it hasn't yet but it's going to lead to something terrible happening with the press. >> words are potentially lethal weapons. at this time, this climate with the ocean of guns that are out there and people's access to weapons, this is a lot more than just playing with fire. >> i would argue, mike, extraordinarily bad things have happened. you had the synagogue shooting in pittsburgh, a guy talking about donald trump's imagery caravans of migrants entering this country -- >> stirring you such hate. >> you've had journalists beaten

up. i don't give donald trump any free passes on this. i think he know what is actions his words will lead to and what will be encouraged. you were times when you talked to him and he seemed weirdly pleased that his supporters would beat up other people in the audience. he'd never vocalize it but he would react in a way that was deeply disturbing and. we saw it. he would encourage people in rallies to cause physical harm, to cause physical violence to people who did not support him because it -- at the end of the day, the only thing that has held him back has been the united states constitution. >> joe, we all know what has happened. we all know the recent history of violence propelled in some part by the president's red rhec

and we have all attended these rallies. you can see at these rallies, he uses these words, these phrases, with intent. >> consider the contrast the way that donald trump talks about the press. he talks about the press in worse terms than he talks about other dictators around the world who are causing mass starvation and have gulags, kim jong un. how george w. bush talked about al qaeda, that's how donald trump talks about the press on a consistent basis. i'm so much tired of hearing that, oh, donald trump he just says -- don't take him -- take him seriously, not literally. he's the president of the united states and we treat him like he is just a child unable to control any of his basic thoughts and that he's not in a

leadership position and that he's not driving this tenor of anti- prepress rhetoric in the country. >> he's proven he knows exactly what he's doing. knowing him for 11 years, as i have, i'm fairly confident that he is not disturbed by the news report. in fact, i know he's not disturbed by the news reports. he sees that as a sign of strength and a sign of passionate support that he tries to churn up every day in his twitter feed, he tries to churn up every time he calls the media the enemy of the people. >> just to help explain why you're saying that unequivocally, we knew him quite well. the whole birther controversy,

we told him it's so stupid and he said i know it's bad, i know it's bad but then he turned to joe and he said "but it works." i mentioned roger stone and another zealot whose name we won't mention here, but a person behind some of the most vile rhetoric we've ever heard, they were to the at a gun range and they were say they were preparing for in case trum was -- trump was removed from office. and a newspaper covered an editorial published a store say the ku klux klan needed to ride again. seems like the klan would be welcomed to raid the gated

communities up there. truly they are the ruling class. >> goodlow sutton, confirmed to the montgomery advertiser that he authorized the editorial. quote, if we could get the klan to go up there and clean out d.c., we'd all be better off. >> of course, michael, still racism has always been with us, but this is the type of language, these are the type of edit editorials, these are the type of threats, he's are the type of wha whackos that donald trump encourages. we've all seen it over the past several years, you've seen it your entire life. >> this idea that the klan should rise again, well, you know, hey, let's try that because -- and see how it turns out, right? not good. that's the point. there are people that want to

push the nation into this type of civil war or conflict. and trump, as we've expected of other presidents, has a very unique opportunity to either, you know, bolster that kind of thinking or to kill it in its infancy. most presidents have made every effort to do the latter. trump, there's a reason why, joe, donald trump says i could shoot someone on fifth avenue and no one would do anything about it. there's a reason why he says go out there into his audience and knock the sucker out. just knock someone out. because he's tapped into this vein and when you have the klan and david duke and these guys elevating his rhetoric, elevating his words to the points that were made before about using words as a weapon, that gives you a better sense of

exactly the type of environment the president's stoking. and he sits back -- i think mika is exactly right. he sits back and says, yeah, this works, see how people will follow everything i say. that is what makes it so dangerous at this time, i think. >> joe, i didn't mean to suggest the president isn't dangerous and doesn't know what he's doing. i meant to say he's so cheap with his words and just throw it is out. if you look at twitter where he's especially cheap with his words, not one tweet about the arrest of this guy who was killing a mass killing spree of some of the most prominent people in this country. >> it defies -- >> again, these are all of the enemies that he's laid out, the enemies of the people. these are all the people he's attacked.

we saw it with the pipe bomber, he sent them to people who donald trump consider to be his enemies and how unbelievably reckless and how stupid of him to not immediately call this what it is, domestic terrorism. >> what could be easier than -- >> imagine if it were a muslim or a jew who was attacking republicans. he would be tweeting about it nonstop. >> so, danny, first of all, let's give praise to the fbi and to the investigative service of the coast guard who thwarted this, found out about it and stopped and arrested this person. he was planning in his own words he said a wide-scale attack. why was he arrested just on drug charges? is that the beginning of something here? >> this is apparently the tip of the iceberg. just looking at the simple possession charges and the

possession of firearm charges, there are prohibitive persons who cannot possess firearms. commonly we think of felons but also drug addicts cannot possess firearms. the government makes a case for this defendant's addiction to tra tramadol in the grand skecheme things. this probably just the beginning. it may have been the government felt they needed to move, get him off the street, get him detained, get him into court and then we may see superseding indictments when and down the road. >> they may have seen something imminent and they had to get to him. >> exactly. you can see there was surveillance going on for white a while, including surveillance of him at his desk. the government must have known something for a while. they must have seen something that said it's time to move.

>> it's pretty extraordinary what this found but it also astouis astounding they found it. >> this is conspiracy, attempt. situations where a crime is planned, even attempted but not completed. when you take a look at the evidence in this case, the internet searches. internet searches from his window -- >> at his work computer. >> that's galactically stupid to not just from your computer -- >> government computer. >> that's right. the search on google gives us a look into the mind of somebody

planning this activity. this evidence can be used to demonstrate to a judge, oh, he was definitely thinking going to d.c. to look for people because he was searching for it. of course, in another situation these searches could be totally innocent. it's taken together with the cache of firearms, the drugs and the reading of manifestos online. >> mika, unfortunately we've soon time and given people that are unhinged that aren't working on government computers, people that listen to and believe conspiracy theories supported by the president and his supporters, we talk about pizza gate. and then we have the president of the united states who instead of tamping up these theories is

stirring them up. using phrases that the soviet union stopped using because of stalinist theories. he sits there and, again, something like this happens, not a word. not a single word on twitter. not a response to yesterday morning's warning from the "new york times." again, the timing of this all this is so obvious. we should be shocked that we are not more shocked that the publisher of the "new york times" tells the president of the united states you keep calling the press enemies of the

people and you're going to get somebody hurt, you're going to get somebody killed. he writes that in the morning and in the afternoon we have this conspiracy to actually kill top democratic lawmakers who oppose donald trump and journalists who dare to report the truth about donald trump. >> and nothing from the president. >> this is pretty simple. it's all on the president's shoulders. it's all the president's fault. he sits there with his mouth shut, for once didn't say anything or tweet anything, which makes it even more on him. >> still to come on "morning joe", as bob mueller winds down, will president trump ramp up? the latest reporting that says the special counsel probe is almost over. plus the actor who claimed to be a victim of hate crimes, cried about it on television --

>> did you see that? >> the worst acting i thought i'd ever seen. but maybe it is. now facing charges himself. >> did you see the two people he allegedly hired buying masks, to the on surveillance for about 30 minutes? seriously, a clown show. >> we will talk about those new developments. first bill karins with a check on the weather. >> good morning. >> good morning, everyone. we're getting rid of our northeast storm. we only ended up with about one or two inches of snow but there's a glaze of ice in a lot of areas in new england. pennsylvania got hit with a lot of ice, too. the best news of all, this afternoon we're into the 50s as far north as hartford. anybody who has icing conditions this morning, it will be greatly improved by the lunch hour.

birmingham is in the middle of heavy rain. we have 16 million people still in flash flood watches here. that's going to tun for a while. we have a big storm in the west. it snowing again in las vegas this weekend. especially on saturday blizzard conditions from iowa to minnesota and severe storms, maybe even tornadoes in areas to the south. a lot of active weather ahead. new york city, visibility is poor this morning, will improve this morning. a lot of people that had flights cancelled or delayed yesterday, you should be able to get out today. no problem in the east coast. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back ♪ ♪ fight cancer.

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which would be insane. but you have to admit, there's a certain part of the story that was always a little weird. like who are the mega supporters who hate gay people, who hate black people but also happen to watch "empire"? like i've heard of hate watching but that would be [ bleep ] next level. it's like a member of the klan buying tickets to "fiddler on the roof," they can play a mean fiddle. >> that was trevor, who my daughter loves, that was him pointing out the absurdity to the initial story of actor just

jus -- jussie smollett. felony criminal charges have been approved by the cook county district attorney's office and his torns a-- attorneys are working on his arrest. they say they put a rope around his neck and poured a white substance on him. surveillance associates appear to show his associates purchasing ski masks, clubs and baseball caps right in front of the camera there. nbc 5 chicago spoke with the security guard who identified the brothers. nbc 5 reports they testified to a grand jury yesterday. a spokeswoman for the cook county state attorney's office tells nbc chicago that smollett

could face up to three years of prison if convicted. he is due in court for a bond hearing this afternoon. smollett's attorneys have responded with a attorney reading in part, like any other citizen, smollett enjoys the presumption of innocence and his team plans to mount an aggre aggressive offense. >> please. that due process applies to him. let's wait until the facts come out. >> let's talk about what did happen. >> it's something you have been talking about for a year and a half, that while celebrating the emergence of the me-too movement, you've always talked about the importance of due process, instead of mob rule,

you talked about it nonstop during the ka during the kavanaugh hearings, you warned many journalists to stop not only accusing kavanaugh but convicting him on tv. everybody saying, well, he did it, he had to do it, he had to do all of it, the gang rapes, the spiking ponunch, the orgy rooms, all of the outrageous stored that followed the initial accusation and here we are again, a tv star comes forward and throws all of these charges out there and everybody wants to believe them and they jump on them and they don't start and actually wait for all the facts to come out. >> yeah. and i think that this is a problem that i worry democrats will overreach on a case or on a situation. i think they did with kavanaugh. i do. you know, i can give my opinions

about the case but my opinions as to whether or not something happened to the victim in that case is not important to the entire process. our feelings are not due process. sense that we get, i don't know, a sense of say about how women have been treated throughout the years through a case is not due process. and it's the same here. is it possible that an african-american man would claim falsely that he was attacked because of his -- the color of his skin, that he would make up that trump people came after him and beat him up? is it possible a man can do that? of course it is. it may be in this case. it may not. in other cases as well that have come to the fore, that is come out, there are allegations and allegations are exactly that. that's all i'll say.

and i worry democrats will give trump exactly what he wants if they play this game and they don't stand by the law, by due process and also move society forward and take parting movements. i've been worried about me too and about the ramifications of this case. >> you were saying with everybody case, whether it something like this or with me too, whoever is coming forward may be telling the truth. they're also capable of lying are men and women are capable of lying and you have to sit back and wait for all the facts to come in. again, as we always quote barry weis, not allow mob rule to overtake due process because if we do, then what happened in kavanaugh, where claire mccaskill and several other

democratic senators who were running for reelection will tell you, will they not, mika, as she did that that spectacle cost her reelection. >> absolutely. and, willie, it complicatkpliit obviously. when a woman steps up to the plate or the table and explains something that's happened to her, my instinct of course is to believe her, who would do that. but in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of the truth, playing with believing versus due process, well, we're in an age where the truth is at stake. the truth is in jeopardy because of president trump. and i feel that democrats, they've got to be even better and it's hard. >> yeah, i think you're right and i think that goes for the press, too. i think there are a lot of

people rooting for an outcome in this story, immediately when they heard his account only jumped on that. i think i just checked with our executive producer alex, we mentioned it twice. we did the story once on our sunday "today" show and that mr. smollett claimed it was an attack and i was attacked for suggests it was just a claim. but that's our responsibility. what do the legal prospects look like for jussie smollett? it doesn't look good here. >> it doesn't look good. he's charged with disorderly conduct. in illinois, there is a felony for false reports to police officers contained within that statute. it is a class four felony, up to three years in prison. it's a very serious crime. and the idea being that when you make false reports, you not on waste the resources of law

enforcement, you also create a panic around the neighborhood, that this is the kind of thing going on, that there are roving bands of folks beating people up, if that was a false report. the other concern here is that for smollett, there's so much damaging video evidence against him. you have that video of them buying ski masks and whatever they needed. this is the kind of circumstantial evidence that is going to be a very difficult case to overcome. >> and these two brothers are cooperating with police. >> it appears they are in full cooperation. and probably, not surprisessu - sprie surprisingly, they may not have been in fully on what was going

on. >> in would be bad in any city but, my god, in chicago it is especially bad because the crime there, the murder there, the number of children shotdown by gun violence, the number of chicago residents shot down. i mean, to be a police officer in chicago is taxing enough without having their time weightswasted like this. >> especially in chicago there is a mayoral election. of course the police department under siege in chicago. many residents unhappy with the police department, living under the threat of the gun in certain neighborhoods every single day, 24 hours a day. and at the root of this story, joe, we all know this, this combustible story is the compulsion, the cultural compulsion of the media, many

members of the media and many citizens to race in on twitter with their opinions, their view. it helps further divide the situation. pick a team, whose side are you on? everybody has an opinion and it just add to the combustibility -- the original combustibility of the store. >> you know what i would say finally for people who did jump on and root for an outcome from day one, a good thing to do to rebuild trust would just be be to say i got it wrong. don't rationalize. just say i was wrong and i lrpd from this and let's have due process in all cases. >> we all get it wrong. i get it wrong all the time. and when it happens, you need to say i got to wrong. that's exactly what happened here. there's been given this compulsion to jump and become part of a twit ater mob.

>> and to get the interview, just to get the interview. >> i talked about how this was a drain on police resources. i'll tell you the other. again, this is also a crime with larger ramifications. you look at since trump has been president of the united states, hey crimes have spiked. and now you know, i know, we all know that there will be certain pro-trump people on radio and on tv that will use this story as a way to discount all the hate crimes that actually are occurring out there. mika, that's what really makes this so reckless and so irresponsible, if in fact at the end of this process after this actor is given due process, that will be one of the most

irresponsible things of all the irresponsible acts he's committed. >> danny cevallos, thank you for being on. >> and teeing up a big fight oaf border wall funding. we'll talk to a member of the homeland committee next on "morning joe." ♪ till i reach the highest ground ♪ ♪ ♪ this simple banana peel represents a bold idea: a way to create energy from household trash. it not only saves about 80% in carbon emissions...

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why do we have to keep fighting? >> it shouldn't be a fight at all. every person who is sick today as a consequence of those attacks on 9/11, they a particular tim of the taare a victim of the attack. we have people thanking people for their service and then they're fighting this type of legislation. this is not just a new york city built. this is not a new york city issue. we first responders and folks down at ground zero and the immediate aftermath of 9/11 living in every state of america. this is something every single representative should be concerned with. i'm confident we're going to get the funding, the resources that

it needs so we don't have to go back to this fight again. >> you and others are going to have a rally on capitol hill about this issue. how do we fund this for the long term so we're not back here in a couple of years. >> the key is to make that commitment that we are going to fund this basically for the duration of this century. the truth is that we right now cannot perfectly analyze the exact number of people that will come forth and say that i have complications due to what i did at ground zero. but what we can guerin teep ara are going to be committed to being there for them. we are still in afghanistan, a war precipitated by 9/11, and we're there to prevent another 9/11 for all intents and purposes. we have to address the victims compensation fund with that same degree of resolute, patriotic commitment to those who were there for us. now we got throb for them. >> a war in witch you fought, we

should point out for our viewers. you and i both now first responders and family who died and who continue to be sick from what they inhaled down there. >> they live in staten island, queens, oklahoma, maryland, whatever. you have been active in various veterans services. a state of the emergency declared by the united states, he's going to build hits vaunted wall, among the money he's going to go after for existing army, marine core, navy personnel in places all over this country and in europe. what can be done, if anything, to make sure that those monies are allotted for what they are -- the purpose that they were appropriated for? >> you don't get to declare a state of emergency when you don't get your way. this cannot become a press didn't in this country.

and to put this into perspective and i do think that the president and even members of the republican party aren't ak n -- acknowledging the very difficult decisions they're going to come to face with. do you support the wall or homeless veterans. the resiliency project or the monument that this president is trying to push against national security experts in we are focused on building a sea wall on the east shore of staten island to prevent flooding like we saw in superstorm sandy. there was concern that to the djt o.d. and this to emergency declaration. pull being from one wall to build another. this is crazy. >> right.

but it is what it is. and the question is most of the money that he's trying to reallocate isn't really subject to the state of emergency thing. it money that he is legally allowed to move from one account to another. so the congress does have an ability to override that if they choose to. it would seem unlikely with the republicans still in charge of the senate. it looks like most of that. >> well, i do see it differently. obviously i think in the house very quickly we're going to push for legislation to ounter act this but certainly the rubber meets the road in the senate. is mitch mcconnell a fully owned subsidiary of the white house or not. >> we saw. and i think they'll look at their polls and they'll realize as barnicle just said it's over

homeless veterans. it's completely suicidal. if you set a precedents for declaring a state of emergency about your issue, well, a democratic president is going to do the same and then we're going to go down this road we do not want to go down in the country. so i think when it comes to it, they're going to. >> michael, how's it going? >> good, breaux, good. there are not too many members of your party running for president but i want to ask a more philosophical question. you have the rise of progressive politics on the left. and you have those who cast themselves as democratic socialists. where do you see the democratic

party right now and would you consider yourself as one of your colleagues in the house from new york considers herself to be a democratic so longist? >> what's your name tack as a. >> there's obviously a ton of people throwing their hat in the ring. i'm surprised you found time to include me on the show there's so many presidential candidate. one of the biggest problems we face in d.c. is not necessarily these emerging ideologies, but the fact that we are already talking about a presidential race. that already, in february of the off year are making decisions not based off the interests of the american people, they're making decisions based on of does this improve our party's chances of winning in 2020? >> that's a huge crisis. but to go to the core of your

question, i see the krakic party to be the out in illinois, laura atwood. skyrocketing drug prices, crumbling infrastructure, the fact that poll signatureses on both side of the aisle get bought ou by and tease what michael, your friends on the republican side are always going to try to paint it as something else. that's their job. they don't necessarily have an agenda of their own to run on. so they have to make people afraid of the other side. we're going to go back and forth with this shtick for god knows how long.

suffice it to say and it is the democratic party's responsibility to give bold and declarative plans about how we're going to pro actively solve people's problems papd we have to do that. >> before i let you go, your core campaign issue, how's traffic on the bridge coming over from staten island? >> man, this is the core problem. thank you for bringing that up. >> you ran on it. >> and not something else. when we look at commuting time because everyone said, max you are you're going so pedestrian talking about something like this. the truth is is as an consequence of increased urban station, there's a commuting, so we have invest in infrastructure, transportation alternatives. i'd love to see you guys do a special show just on commuting time. >> can't get over there in time. >> ron starr, purple heart and the rest of it, thank you so much. good to see up.

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after nearly two years, the justice department is reportedly preparing for the end of special counsel robert mueller's investigation into russian interference in the 2016 election. people familiar with the discussions tell "the washington post" that d.o.j. officials believe mueller's confidential report could be issued in the coming days. several officials have also told nbc news that mueller is winding up his work and preparing to submit a final report to the attorney general. the newly sworn in a.g., william barr, will then decide what will be made available to congress and the public. at this point it's impossible to say how long that process could

take. we'll discuss this just ahead with a former fbi agent. plus federal officials arrest a coast guard officer who they say wanted to kill the president's political opponents and journalists. we'll talk about the charges ahead on "morning joe." mobile experience awards, number one in video streaming according to nielsen, and number one in network quality according to j.d. power. we're proud to be the only network to win in all four major awards-- not because of what it says about us, but what it means for every one of our customers. choose america's most reliable network, and get apple music, on us, when you do. neighbors... loved ones.

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or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. want more proof? ask your dermatologist about humira. this is my body of proof. we're finally going on the trip i've been promising. because with expedia, i saved when i added a hotel to our flight. ♪ so even when she outgrows her costume, we'll never outgrow the memory of our adventure together. unlock savings when you add select hotels to your existing trip. only when you book with expedia. welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, february 21st. still with joe, willie and me, we have msnbc contributor mike

barnicle, former aide to the state department, elise jordan, former treasury official steve ratner, michael steele and staff writer "the atlantic" and christian anderson. the president tweeted, quote, the "new york times" reporting is false. they are a true enemy of the people, to which "times" publisher responded in part, the phrase "enemy of the people" is not just false, it's dangerous. it has an ugly history of being wielded by dictators and tyrants who sought to control public information and it is

particularly rickless coming from someone whose off gives him broad powers to fight -- >> and we learned 49-year-old christopher paul hassan was arrested on friday drug and gun charges but in a detention memo filed this week, prosecutors say he had been cultivating a stockpile of weapons and ammo since 2017 with plans to launch a widespread attack on prominent democratic lawmakers and self high-profile journalists. a search of his silver spring, maryland home found 15 guns and a thousand rounds of ammunition according to court documents.

hassan has espoused -- the same day he compiled a list of those who target, he compiled a google list, civil war if trump impeached. >> and he got much more specific than that actually on other targets. >> a federal law enforcement officers say those searches threw up a red flag for the coast guard. this after a florida man was charged with sending pipe bombs packages to critics of president trump. and a man opened fire on the

tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh. president trump had repeatedly called for stopping the migrant caravan and proclaimed without providing any evidence at all that middle easterners and criminals were among the migrants. >> willie, it's no coincidence donald trump fans the flames of hatred and many that are out there that support him are responding to it. i think it's not even remarkable. it should be remarkable but it's predictable what's happened when you have the publisher of the "new york times" saying that his attacks on journalists and enemy of the people is, quote, not just false but dangerous, your

incendiary rhetoric could lead to violence against journalists at home and across the nation. well, that's happened and we saw yesterday an example where it could have happened if the fbi hadn't moved quickly. >> the term "enemy" means something very specific to people. it's someone across from you who has to be defeated, who has to be stopped. and some people, like this gentleman apparently, will take that to mean going after the press, nen opposed to your agenda. the president not even reacting to this massive story of what prosecutors say would have been a swewidespread mass killing. it doesn't say a lot of his strength of his arguments that he has to keep going back to enemy of the people. he has to build up a boogeyman,

a straw man, someone to go after. we had the tree of life significa synagogue. you would think if people are taking my words to mean violence, maybe i better step back and the president has ramped up it again and again. >> we can talk about the synagogue shooting, 11 people gunned done and killed in this caravan hoax that donald trump was pushing before the election. this mass murderer picked up. we could talk about the pipe bombs that were sent to all of donald trump's critics. we could talk about this manifesto yesterday and talk about all the people that were targeted. it's not a coincidence that in all of these cases you actually

have political opponents of donald trump and journalists who report on donald trump, who donald trump attacks and has attacked who is on this list, this list that this man wanted to go out, gun down and kill. >> well, joe, when you talk to trump supporters, one of the things that you heard during the 2016 election was that they -- they said things that you just weren't supposed to say. i think that's kind of the point. it's not about political correctness. it's about there being language that is simply inappropriate and wrong and doesn't have a place in public discourse. and i would put categorizing journalists as enemy of the people within that sphere. and you look at what donald trump has done and he's desensitized all of us to these

constant tirades against his enemies. and he's made people discounted as mere language, but we see that words do have consequences, and especially the commander in chief's words from the most important office in our land, it has consequences. so donald trump is never going to change, he's not going to stop his attacks against the media, but i think that we should continue to be outraged by the president of the united states using his office, the highest office in the land and his twitter account, quite frankly, to target individuals, businesses and the media. >> well, and i think the deafening silence on his twitter account this morning says quite frankly just as loud as other

things. >> he's guilty. he knows it's his responsibility. that's the silence. >> he should condemn what has happened. >> why would he condemn something that he supports? why would he con determine something that he has encouraged throughout his entire campaign? he has said during rallies as we've all talked about before, go out and beat up as many people as you want to, i will pay for your lawyer bills. he said that a member of congress who was running for congress, who sucker punched a report reporter, knocked him down, was arrested for assault and battery, i believe, said that was his kind of guy because the reporter actually got punched for simply asking a question about health care. and donald trump celebrated that. donald trump celebrated the good ol' days when people would just get laid out and carried out on a stretcher, as donald trump

said. no, listen, he's always, as we've said, he's always encouraged this, he's always celebrated this. he is not shocked by this. apparently his silence shows this is exactly what he wants. >> yeah. and kristin, i think it used to be easier to poll people's beliefs, what they support and don't support, but this president has put the truth on the line. and i wonder at this point what we would see if we took a look at exactly what people believed to be when it comes to the press or this presidency. >> well, we know that voters and not just conservative voters do have serious reservations about whether they think they can trust the media, that those numbers have been declining over the course of the last decade, but there's a really big difference between saying, you know, i don't know that i can trust everything i see in the news and i'm going to go google

search to try to figure out how i can cause physical harm to reporters. there's a huge leap there. there are always crazy individuals out there. we had the newsroom shooting that tragically took the lives of some journalists in annapolis not too long ago. that was inspired by local issues. the shooting of gabby gifford was inspired by a man with severe mental issues who thought the money was being manipulated. but the -- >> hold on. what do you think this is being inspired for? >> 100% inspired by rhetoric from the president. >> what about the pipe bomber? what was he inspired by? >> inspired by the president. my point is even in the absence of president trump, you have individual who are unstable and they're adding existing comments to that existing recipes is a recipe for bad. >> who is the synagogue shooting

inspired by as well, talking about caravans? >> joe, you are putting words in my mouth. i'm not saying this is not because of the president. i'm saying you already have crazy but when you add more to the exist rhetoric -- i 100% think president trump views this like pro wrestling and nobody is going to get hurt. these are already dangerous professio professions, the media, politics and viewing it like pro wrestling like it doesn't matter is a dangerous thing for the president to be doing and i wish he would stop. >> van? what do you think? >> i don't know if he doesn't know what's going to happen here, especially when he's being boosted by people for telling it like it is, for lifting the veil on political correctness.

everybody knows behind that veil is the threat of real violence. and i'm a southerner. if i have talk to old journalists who were around during jim crow and talk to people alive during that era, one of the biggest components of that rej regime was threats aga journalists for coming down and covering those things. we don't like political correctness, we want you to tell it like it is. this what candidates in the jim crow south built their stories on. this is what everybody in power knows. the reason for political correctness, the reason for being a strong proponent of the first amendment is not just to protect the right to go out and say things in public, it's to protect the real safety of

journalists and people who are asking questions. and people going against that, who are calling journalists enemies of the people, i think they know what they're doing. >> yeah, i do, too. >> you know, joe, in every crime, potential crime, crime committed, cripple me on the vef being committed, bob mueller, they're looking at motive. in chicago, they're looking at moti motive. in crimes of hate, there are always motives. and the motive of the guy who they grabbed yesterday with a list of people who he wanted to kill, where do they live, who has secret service protection, who doesn't, there's a motive. the truth and the root of the hatred is often found in the

intent of the president of the united states to daily use his twitter account to divide the country. to divide the country among races, among everything. he's intent of dividing the country. it's the first time in our country we've had it, hopefully we will all survive it. it exists on a daily basis, the president of the united states is a divider. >> you had said the president sees this all as pro wrestling. i think that may have been the case during the campaign. don't you think at 72 years of age, after generating rhetoric that you and i and i think almost every rational american knows inspired the pipe bomber to send pipe bombers after his political targets of a president trump's words on his caravan

conspiracy theories about middle easterners and all the other crazy conspiracy theories, inspired a man to go into a pittsburgh synagogue and gun down 11 jewish worshippers, after this coast guard arrest where a guy had a stockpile of weapon and a plan to, again, gun down all of donald trump's opponents in congress and all the people that are journalists who donald trump perceives as opponents, don't you think at this point he should -- any rational human being that had his mental fact umts about hult should they not know this is no pro wrestling. >>something happened at his rally recent will. there was a bbc cameraman hurt at a rally. you're right. he should know there are real consequences here.

i'm suggesting he does not think that. i don't know why. i believe that is part of why he has not publicly come out and instructed his supporters, hey, let's not take this too far. i think he does not believe he is personally responsible. that's very different to what extent his words are responsible for motivating. you had a gentleman whose van was covered with things that included pictures that suggested he was very supportive of the president but even given evidence like that, i don't think president trump views himself as doing anything more than, eh, it's just words. until he realizes these words do have serious consequences, it's unlikely to see you and others on the show see him tweet will see him tweet. >> michael steele, what else does he need to see other than 11 people gunned down -- >> i guess he's mentally

unstable. he would have to be absolutely impaired -- >> he would have to be impaired to see 11 people gunned down in a synagogue, to see pipe bombs around to try to threaten or hurt or kill, again, people that donald trump has attacked as his political opponents, his political enemies and now this coast guard situation where this guy had stockpiled weapons for some time and had a plan to go out and gun down people that donald trump identified as his enemies on capitol hill and in the press. how could donald trump not be aware that his words have actually led to violence and are inspiring others unhinged to

commit further acts of violence? >> my take on all of this is he's either an absolute idiot or a man ef lent manipulatomanipul. at 72 years of age, donald trump is more than aware of what hot rhetoric can do and how it has been used in the past, as has already been referenced, to incite against the media. to, you know, push back on those who are exposing the underbelly of racism in this country. what donald trump takes comfort in and it goes back to what we talked about in the last hour when i made the reference to him saying i could shoot somebody on 5th avenue, he takes comfort in knowing there are people out there that will give him the

space to say and do what he's doing, who take comfort themselves in now feeling there's someone who is giving license to them to express openly what they've harbored internally. so donald trump is more than aware, i believe, in how he's manipulating this process. and while he may sit back and pretend that he's not, the truth of the matter is he is and the fact that he has not like in this situation with this individual come out and condemn it or speak to it i think speaks to that self-awareness of how effective he is at manipulating. because the moment he does, joe, and mika, the moment he does, he undercuts the very thing that he knows that he can control. >> steve rattner, to take up kristin's point a little bit, it was less than two years ago that a bernie sanders supporters,

worked on his campaign, went out to kill as many republicans as he could. if not for security and capital police officers and a congressman, a former field med medic, congressman scalese might have died. >> i've listened to this conversation with interest. we're all trying to look inside the mind of a guy whose mind is at best unbalanced and at the worst unhinged. at the least can you say he doesn't care if people are going to go off and kill people and at

the worst is he encourages it. i think on some level he just doesn't get it. i read the transcript of a.g. salzberger's interview of him about a wook aeek ago, when a.gt making the point that you're putting people's lives in danger, he kind of just shrugged, i don't know what you're talking about. to be so oblivious, when something happens like what occurred yesterday, to not even put o out a tweet or something to bring the nation back together is -- >> he's a bully. that's what he does, whether it's to journalists, whether it's to the wife of a fallen soldier, whether it's to congressional opponents, he is simply a bully. and the content is not going to change because his fundamental

character is so wrapped up in being a bully. >> and he is not oblivious, mike barnicle. >> you're mika, we cannot collectively here as a group, we cannot underline enough the phrase he does not care what he hears. and his silence every morning is further proof that he does not care. >> i think he knows what he's doing. he's always open to a good deflebs from the investigation into him and into what has happened during his campaign. he's always open to a deflection. van, you have a new piece out this morning for "the atlantic" entitled "the racial divide is the political divide" and you write white, black and hispanic people hold distinctly different

views of american identities and values. what did you find? >> so,number one, i think what we found in that poll is something that's really relevant to this conversation we're having. we see that people of all races have really different perspectives on just what it means to be american, what it means fundamentally for america to exist and what the central values of the country are. you see -- we saw black respondents saying they don't view capitalism as a very important piece of americanness and white people do and seem to be more of a time viewing capitalism and speaking english as core parts of an american identity. as my colleague emma green reports, we see somewhere just south of a quarter of all americans seldom or never have interactions with people of other races. this doesn't seem like a really high number, but it's really

remarkable that about a quarter of all americans don't ever see people of other races. i think that's an important piece of this conversation as we look at the rise of hate, as we look at sort of how people reacting to racist rhetoric, i think it probably a lot easier to view people, to demonize them if you never see them, if you never see them in the media or in your neighborhoods. and that filters through the politics, as more and more the democratic party becomes a party of people of color, as a pluralist party, courts white voters and white grievance, the polls show that the parties are reflecting the attitudes and the policy preferences of people of different races. >> vann, that certainly seems to be the case more dramatically in the trump area. i'm wondering did you find anything in the polling that

might serve as a black americans and hispanic americans are automatically going to vote for them. his panic voters of course traditionally conservative with a small "c," especially on -- well, more conservative on social issues than some people would expect. and also the fact that donald trump -- i would have expected donald trump to get like 3% of the hispanic vote, the 3% that voted for him. that's not the case. even after accusing hispanics of being breeders and attacking hispanic judge and after all of the -- what i consider to be racist attacks, still got 25, 30% of the vote from hispanics,

about the same as mitt romney. so are there some cross currents there that democrats need to be aware of? >> well, the first thing i think and we all know that hispanic voters aren't really monolithic. they run the gamut, especially by age from conservative to really progressive. and polling kind of has a limitation inherently dealing with hispanic voters because of that. what the research and this poll tells us is that more and more latino voters are gravitating towards progressive issues. they are very likely to support sort of the $1 major. and i think i also cite in the piece, a the lee tino decisions poll saying the number one issue is becoming, stopping the agenda

of president trump. now what happens after that is a turnout function. if those people who want to stop an agenda actually come out to vote. but in 2018 i think we saw with the candidacy of people like beto o'rourke, hispanic voters were a core part of that constituency. i believe that democrats are going to be courting him in the future. for black voters, actually i think sort of the hard core of black conservatives who traditionally vote raepublican, that's becoming smaller all the time. you see black people support a $15 minimum wage. that's a huge sign for progressives within the democratic party. >> absolutely. and as we continue to celebrate black history month, i wanted to highlight journalist ethel payne, who was known as the first lady of the black press.

tell us about her lasting legacy. >> soe ethel payne is one of th main reasons we have any clarity on the interiority of the black movement, he profiled reverend king several times. with different pieces of this movement, they come fromme e fr payne's reporting. they inspire my work and other journalists who think about race. >> thank you very much for being on this morning and coming up, when it comes to his

administration's own initiative, president trump either doesn't know about it, forgot about about 2 or simply doesn't want to talk about it. n't want to talk about it >> . >> wow. what it says about his well-oiled machine ahead on "morning joe." i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying

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joining me frank figluzzi. we've heard the mueller probe might be coming to an end. >> journalists are telling us there's multiple journalistic evidence tull word telling us the same thing. when officially word kept coming out he's going to wrap soon, he's going to wrap soon, i thought it was a strategy by the white house to pressure him. now it's left for pundits to figure out. what does that mean? does he have the end in sight? has he talked to barr what that looks like? one theory postulated by some is that he started with the answer, meaning the core intelligence case at the bureau already had enough about the president's involvement with russia that he

started with that information and then worked to get people around the president and discover what they had. so we're left to wonder where this is going but i think it's more likely that the end is near. my strongest heretheory, he's g to farm out the balance to other attorney general offices. >> and then there's the question whenever it end how it's presented to the america public, if it's presented to the american public. the report is given to the attorney general, william barr, and then it's up to him to determine how he disseminates that was in to congress and then to the public. what's your best guest of what the public gets to know about it? will it be a heavily redacted

document? will it be a brief summary? >> mueller submits a report to the a.g. it's likely the public will never see that report. the a.g. then submits a summary to congress. so, too, does congress have discretion of whether or not to receive the information received from barr. the barr portion will be much more truncated than the original mueller itself. there are cracks that mahay ly for release of some of the information. they have to be aware of not releasing federal grand jury testimony, which is forbidden. it may be that mueller has been releasing his report all along through indictments with tremendous detail of what was

going on. indictments are a bare bones recitation of what will be proven at trial. it could be said that mueller has been speaking all along. and just finally, mueller, to build on what frank said, mueller is also farming out these cases to places like the southern district of new york because it helps to immunize them from any act by the executive or by the aj.g. if these independent u.s. attorneys offices have these cases now. >> so my wreck lirecollection, hazing after watergate, the piece of news was naming nicxon as an unindicted co-conspirator.

it seems like this report will come after he's done indicting people but there will be some information on what the president has or hasn't done. is that right? >> i think our system of justice is under attack and i think mueller may take a different approach. i think he's going to say i'm going to tell what you i know but prosecutions remain and these folks are going to handle it, not me. >> if not robert mueller, who would handle it? >> i think we've already seen, as danny said, the southern district of new york will play very prominently in this, the district of columbia will play very prominently in this. we've seen manafort in eastern district of virginia. i think mueller might send a message saying our system survives, our system will do this, i have my findings and i've passed on to career professionals and even trump

political appoint yesees at the attorney general level what they need to do. >> thank you both for being here this morning. we continue to read the biden tea leaves for 2020. plus they're all democrats, they're all senators and they're all women. a key look at this moment in the presidency. that's next on "morning joe." th.

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joe biden and his family at the railway station in his hometown of wilmington, de delaware. biden was selected to the senate at age 29, the second youngest ever. just three weeks later, his first wife and infant daughter were killed. his two sons badly hurt. >> and all i did the first two to three years in the united states senate was tread water. >> reporter: after that experience, bide i don't know sa -- biden says, now family comes first. >> that was a june 1987 nbc news report on then-senator joe

biden, the month he launched his first presidential campaign. joining us now, nbc news national political reporter mike mully. he says joe biden is getting closer to a white house bid but serious concerns about president trump's attacks on his family remain. also with us, editor in chief of "marc "marie claire" is spotlighting five women run are for president. and alex altman is here with this week's cover showing the myriad of challenges knocking on the president's door and what the magazine predicts will be the wildest democratic primary in a generation. anne, let's start with you. here's a quick look of "marie claire" list of contenders of the democratic women running for

president. >> i wish i were asked about how we're going to make the big changes we need to make. >> i wish i was asked so how do you get so many amazing bills passed? >> my number one issue is making america work for working families. >> ending the counterproductive regime change wars. >> what we need to remember is there's so much more that unites us than tears us apart. >> we all know washington's broken and if you want to fix it, you need to change the players list. >> wow. so you took a look at this i guess from the perspective of all the questions they get because they are women instead of the questions they would like to receive. >> yes, we did. >> so tell us what you found. who stood out and what perhaps surprised you at this look of all the women who are running for president? >> we were so inspired by this historic moment when five women are running for president. i any right now unless i missed

something this morning there are more women running for the democratic nomination than men, which we couldn't be more excited about. the questions that we asked them that struck me the most sort of crazy is what you do you get asked that you don't think male politicians get asked. one was how do you balance family and this job, which we have been being asked and answering since the beginning of time. and i loved kamala harris' question that she gets asked, let's talk about women's issues. her answer is i'm so glad you want to talk about women's issues, let's talk about the economy. >> that's a good way of handling that question. >> looming over this field is joe biden and whether or not he'll get into this race. you've got new reporting about his thought process for that run. you say he's got some concern, especially about the nature of donald trump east campaign tactics. we played that clip coming in where it was about family in

1987, it was about family four years ago just after the death of his son beau. you talk about the process being a slow boil here for bide i don't know -- biden as he gets a little warmer on that every day. >> it's amazing how much has changed in 30 years and how little has changed. joe biden is a senior statesman in the party, one of the most popular figures in it. he thinks he's probably the best one to win over donald trump. but he's also a father and a grandfather of a family that has had to endure a lot of heart ache and to do so in the public eye. we also talk about the decision of the family is so important as they think about it. with biden, that's especially so. his aides are drilling down and getting ready for a final decision from the vice president. those discussions are as much about the politics, of whether he can win a primary as it is of whether his family is ready.

specifically the concern is about donald trump. they saw in 2016 and have spoken to other democrats that he's shown that there's nothing sacred to him, that he's willing to attack a candidate's family based on the truth and based on lies. so one of the major factors in the coming weeks, biden will be doing one final round of gut check conversations with his children and grandchildren, making sure everyone is ready for the fact that a lot of the family's laundry will be aired in the public and they want to make sure they're comfortable with it. aides insist this is not 2015. he is much closer to saying yes than he was back then. >> have you seen anything from your reporting that joe is willing to lengthen the field, he doesn't feel compelled to announceneck week. he could wait until the middle of march or maybe even the end of march. >> we heard that from the vice president just weekend.

he said the presidential campaigns start earlier and earlier. he doesn't think it's necessary. another aide told me we are just a couple weeks away from the super bowl, perhaps a little bit more time to make a decision, but mid march has been the informal date they set for him. so realistically we're looking at early april. those decisions can sometimes stretch even further down the road. >> and "time" magazine is reporting on this long road to 2020. we've been talking a lot about what wins for democrats. who will be the nominee. who has the best chance to defeat donald trump and democrats say by and large it's not strictly about ideology for them. they want to nominate somebody that can beat donald trump. >> i think this race is going to be about electability and i think to a lot of people joe

biden represents that because he's been around for a very long time. polls do say that if he jumps into the race he's more likely than not to do that he would be the front runner if he gets in. on the other hand he wouldn't be a prohibitive front runner. this could be the largest field in either party's primary history. there's a lot of very sbrersing in some cases untested new candidates coming on stage. and you know, this is going to be a robust and very real debate for a democratic party that's being shaped by a lot of new forces about who it is, what it wants to be many the future and who they want to lead it. >> there have been some articles where democratic operatives have suggested that joe biden's time may have passed him by. in your reporting did you hear that? are -- do people still believe he is the democrats best shot at winning back the white house? >> i think if you talk to both

voters on the ground in early primary states and strategists and campaign operatives around the party, they're of two minds here. to a lot of people biden has the track record, he is a senior statesman of the democratic party now. he's the closest thing that barack obama has in a political heir. on the other hand if you look at what's animating the democratic base right now, the push for gender equality, the push for racial justice, economic populism, i think a lot of the opponents are looking at his record from the grilling of anita hill and they think his support is soft. >> i want to get you to the chart when you studied the ideology involving the senate candidates before we do that, i'd be remiss to not bring up

the fact that where you always go to figure out who's going to win the presidency, which is the betting lines, the bookies still have donald trump as a 3-2 favorite over this entire field. >> i stopped looking at the betting markets when they let me down the cycle so i think there are other ways to figure out who we're going to win. >> let's go straight to the chart. >> so we have two charts today. it is a crowded field as we've been talking about. nine announced candidates and more to come. but happy with the candidates from the senate we can do some work and try to figure out where they stand to help the voters. this was done by ucla which basically puts all the votes and it's every member of congress, six of whom are in the race, six of whom are thinking about being in the race and where they stack up.

you see elizabeth warren over on the left. then kamala harris. cory booker, and then further to the right, amy klobuchar and michael bennett. how do you get to one place or the other? if you take the confirmation of jay powell, one of trump's really good appointments frankly. bennett and klobuchar voted for it and all the rest of them voted against it. if you look for example at authorizing military -- the military budget for this year, gillibrand, kamala harris, elizabeth warren all voted against it. the voters are going to have some choices. if you look at the second chart you'll see another way of doing this which was done by taking a look at what bills these senators sponsored or cosponsored and how these bills

looked an a sprek trum and you look to a similar con -- constellation. we have in this case, jill grand all the way to the left. sanders proposed a bill and gillibrand cosponsored it to have an inheritance tax above $5,348. it certainly put them on the left side of the equation. and then on the right side of the equation, you have again, michael bennett and amy klobuchar and then who's toward the top on leadership. and looking at the graphic of the nine candidates, of course five out of the nine are women which is what you all are focusing on for your april issue. why do you think so many women have stepped up? i mean, we've gone from the once

in a while female candidate to five. >> i think it's incredible. i think there are a number of factors. obviously the last election. we saw women march in droves for that. hillary clinton opened the door for us and i think the most is we have many different ways with five choices right now. >> thank you so much. we'll be looking for the new issue of marie clair. the new issue of time previews the road to 2020 and mike, your reporting is online at nbc news.com. thank you all. still ahead, the major questions surrounding the mueller report as signs suggest it could be finished next week. plus, a mass murder plot with lots of weapons, drugs and a hit list. we'll talk about the white nationalist coast guard officer who officials say targeted the president's political opponents and high profile journalists.

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so i want to thank you all. it's very early in the morning. i think you probably broke the all-time in history television rating for 3:00 in the morning. that i would say. >> last year, president trump noted the ratings potential in dealing with north korea. his summit next week however has some counter programming to contend with and that would be michael cohen testifying to congress at the very same time. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's thursday, february 21st. along with joe, willie and me we have msnbc contributor mike barnic barnicle. former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst, steve rat ner and danny and former chairman of the

republican national committee, michael steele. so let's get to our top story. a lieutenant in the coast guard is facing domestic terrorism charges for allegedly planning to carry out a mass killing spree. the 49-year-old christopher paul was arrested on friday on drug and gun charges but in a detention memo filed this week, prosecutors say he had been cultivating a stock pile of weapons since 2017 with plans to launch a widespread attack on prominent democratic lawmakers and several high profile journalists. a search of his silver spring, maryland home found 15 guns and 1,000 rounds of ammunition according to court documents. prosecutors say he embraced extremist views for years and began following the manifesto of a white norwegian terrorist who shot and killed 27 people in

2011. prosecutors claim that on january 17th, the same people he compiled a list of prominent targets, he searched what if president trump impeached and civil war if trump impeached. a federal law enforcement officer tells nbc news those serges on his work computer threw up a red flag for the coast guard. this comes just four months after the arrest of a florida man charged with sending more than a dozen pipe bomb packages to critics of president trump. he opened fire in sitzburg killing is 1. the accused killer frequently posed anti sematic threats including conspiracy theories about the caravan of migrants traveling north from the honduras to the u.s. border. president trump has called for

stop the caravan and claimed without providing any evidence at all that middle easterners and criminals were among the migrants and all of this comes as the publisher of the "new york times" -- the president tweeted quote, the new york times reporting is false. they are true enemy of the people. to which times publisher responded in part, the phrase enemy of the people is not just false, it's dangerous. it has an ugly history of being wielded by dictators and tyrants who sought to control public information and it is particularly reckless coming from someone whose office gives him broad powers to fight or imprison the nation's enemies. as i have repeatedly told president trump face to face, there are mountsing signs that this rhetoric is encouraging threats and violence against

journalists at home and abroad and there's more, joe, roger stone in news. we'll get to that with him going to firing ranges with -- >> yeah, talking about civil wars. >> extremist freaks. >> you've got people calling for the rise of the clan again, but willie, it's not like -- i mean, youg had the "new york times" publisher issue this warning. donald trump has been warned repeatedly that talking about enemies of the people is a stalin phrase. you had donald trump during the rallies when he would tell people if they'd beat somebody up he'd pay for their legal bills. he championed republican candidate who beat up a journalist for simply asking a

question about health care and so i guess it's just really the timing. we've all known. we've all known that donald trump and his words and his attacks about enemies of the people would lead to this type of behavior. this is now the second time that we know about from the pipe bombs to yesterday, but yesterday was obviously far more specific. far more dangerous and you know that it's exactly what donald trump is encouraging. >> you know, words are very cheap to donald trump. he says what he has to say in the moment to win the political moment. to win the political day. he doesn't believe the "new york times" is the enemy of the people. he loves the "new york times" and has craved their attention for 40 years. he had to be told by his staff it's time to go and he says nobody kicks the "new york times" out of the office. words are cheap to him but they have cost elsewhere.

you look at this man and he's hearing that the media is the enemy of the people. he's hearing about politics talked about in terms of war. he takes that to heart and if it takes one person that's enough p and if president trump wants to continue this rhetoric it's going to lead to something bad as we've said many times before. we're lucky it hasn't yet, but it's going to lead to something very terrible happening with somebody in the press. >> you're right. words are also weapons and especially when framed by the president of the united states, they are potentially lethal weapons. in this climate at this country at the time with the ocean of guns that are out there and people's access to weapons, this is a lot more than just playing with fire. this -- this is at the edge of being -- >> yeah, i would argue, mike, that bad things, extraordinarily bad things have happened. you had the synagogue shooting in pittsburgh, a guy talking

about donald trump's imaginary caravans of migrants invading this country. >> stirring up such hate. >> you have journalists beaten up and i actually -- i don't give donald trump any free passes on this and i don't think it's him throwing words out. i think he knows what actions his words are lead to and what we encourage. you know, there were times when you talked to him and he seemed weirdly pleased that his supporters would beat up other people in the audience. he never vocalized it but he would -- he would react in a way that was deeply disturbing and -- and we saw it. he would encourage people in rallies to cause physical harm. >> yeah. >> to cause violence to people who did not support him because at the end of the day, only tyrants use terms like enemies of the people and donald trump has proven as i've said from the

beginning, he's an autocrat in training. the only thing that has held him back has been the united states constitution. >> owe, we all know what has happened. we all know the reason of violence propelled in some parts by the president's rhett tick and we have all attended these rallies and you can see at these rallies that he uses these words, these from phrases with intent. >> consider the contrast the way that donald trump talks about the press. he talks about the press in worse terms that he talks about other dictators around the world who are causing mass starvation, kim jong un and you know, the way -- it reminds me of how george w. bush talked about al qaeda. that's how he talked about the press on a consistent basis. i'm so tired of hearing donald trump says -- don't take him seriously, not literally. he's the president of the united states and we treat him like he

is just a child unable to control any of his basic thoughts and that he doesn't -- that he's not in a leadership position and that''s not driving this tenor of anti free press in the country. >> you know, yeah, take his words literally. he knows exactly what he's doing and he's proven that he knows exactly what he's doing. and knowing him for 11 years as i have, i'm fairly confident. >> yeah. >> that he is not disturbed by the news report. in fact, i know he's not disturbed by the news reports. he sees that as a sign of strength and a sign of passionate support that he tries to churn up every day in his twitter feed. he tries to churn up every time he calls the media the enemy of the people. >> so just to sort of help

explain why you're saying that so unequivocally is that we knew him quite well and i remember our conversation with him about the whole controversy and we told him to cut it out. that it was so stupid, that he should stop and he knows, i know it's bad, and he turned to joe, said, but it works. so winning more important than humanity and goodness. there are i charges filed in the jussie smollett case. the actor himself is facing prosecutors for allegedly staging the entire thing. we'll talk about the fallout from that next on "morning joe." t from that next on "morning joe." as a fitness junkie, i customize everything -

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check in from afar with remote access, ♪ and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store. call, or go online today. >> the police now believe smollett staged his own attack which would be insane, but you have to admit there's a certain part of the story that was always a little weird. like who are the megasupporters

who hate gay people, who hate gl black people but also happen to watch "empire." like i've heard of hate watching but that would be next level. it's like a member of the clan buying tickets to fiddler on the roof. i'm no fan of the jews but they can play a mean fiddle. >> they all love him. that was him the other day. pointing out the absurdity of the initial story from the actor jussie smollett and there morning there are other facts in that case. he's facing charges for filing a false report. according to the chief communications officer for the chicago police, felony criminal charges have been approved by the cook county state attorney's office. smollett filed a police report

in chicago on january 29th claiming he had been assaulted by two masked men who shouted racist and home phobic slurs. he also said they put a rope around his neck and poured a white substance on him. surveillance footage appears to show smollett's associates purchasing ski masks, clubs and baseball caps right in front of the camera there. nbc 5 chicago spoke with the security guard who identified the brothers. nbc 5 reports that they testified to a grand jury yesterday. a spokeswoman for the cook county state attorney's office tells nbc chicago that smollett would face probation. he could face up to 3 years in prison in con fikt vi-- convict. smollett's attorneys have responded with a statement reading in part, like any other

citizen, smollett enjoys the presumption of innocence and that his team plans to mount an aggressive defense. >> so listen, that due process that we talk about applies to him. so let's wait till all the facts are out and -- and wait before convicting him on tv. >> right, but let's talk about what didn't happen upon the initial report. >> but let's talk about what did happen after the initial reporting u. it's something that you have been talking about for a year naphtha while celebrating the emergence of the me too movement you've always talked about the importance of due process instead of mob rule. you talked about it nonstop during the kavanaugh hearings. you warned democrats, you warned many people on the left on twitter. you warned many journalists to stop not only accusing kavanaugh but convicting him on tv.

everybody saying he had to do it. he had to do all of it. the gang rapes, you know, the spiking punch, the orgy rooms all the outrageous stories that followed an initial accusation and here we are again, a tv star comes forward and -- and throws all of these charges out there and everybody wants to believe them and they jump on them and they don't stop and actually wait for all the facts to come out. >> yeah. and i think that this is a problem that i -- i worry democrats will overreach on a case or on a situation i think they did with kavanaugh. i do. you know, i can give my opinions about the case, but my opinions as to whether or not something happened to the victim in that case is not important to the entire process. our feelings are not due

process. our sense that we get, i don't know, a sense of say about how women have been treated over the years through a case is not due process. and it's the same here. is it possible that an african american man would claim falsely that he was attacked because of his -- the color of his skin, that he would make up that trump people came after him and beat him up? is it possible a man can do that? of course it is. it may be in this case. it may not. and it -- in other cases as well that have come to the fore, that have come out, that you know, there are allegations and allegations are exactly that. that's all i'll say and i worry democrats will give trump exactly what he wants if they play this game and they don't stand by the law, by due process and also move society forward and take part in movements. i hope that makes sense, but i've been worried about me too

and i've been worried about the ramifications of this case. >> and you were saying before also that again, with every case, whether it's something like this or with me too, whoever is coming forward may be telling the truth. they're also capable of lying, men and women are capable of lying and you have to sit back and wait for all the facts to come in and again, as we always quote, not allow mob rule to overtake due process because if we do, then what happened in kavanaugh where several democratic senators who were running for re-election will tell you, will they not, mika, as she did that that spectacle cost her re-election. >> absolutely. and willie, it -- it's complicated obviously, because i

think when a woman steps up to the -- to the plate and -- or to the table and explains something that has happened to her, i think my instinctive course is to believe her. who would do that? but in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of the truth, playing with believing versus due process, well, we're in an age where the truth is at stake. the truth is in -- is in jeopardy because of president trump and i feel that democrats, they've got to be even better and it's hard. >> yeah, i think you're right and i think that goes for the press too. i think there are a lot of people rooting for an outcome in the story, in is smollett story when they heard his account. i think i just checked with our executive producer. i think we mentioned it twiet. we did the story once on my sunday today show and i said that mr. smollett had claimed he

was attacked and i was attacked for suggesting that it was just a claim. but that's our responsible as journalists and we'll do that to the end of this. what do the legal prospects look like for smollett? it doesn't look good for him here. >> it doesn't look good. he's charged with disorderly conduct which we all normally think of as a low level crime but in illinois there is a felony for false reports to police officers contained within that statute. it is a class 4 felony up to 3 years in prison. it's a very serious crime and the idea being that when you make false reports you not only waste the resources of law enforcement, you also create a panic around the neighborhood that this is the kind of thing that's going on, that will are roving bands of folks beating people up. if in fact that was a false report. the other concern here is that for smollett there's so much digital evidence apparently

against him. you have that video of his supposed confederates buying apparently ski masks or whatever else they may have needed. this is the kind of circumstantial evidence that even if smollett denies, it's going to be a very difficult case. coming up on "morning joe," donald trump predicted pushback to his border wall emergency and that's exactly what he's getting. we'll talk to a house democrat who's trying to block the order. "morning joe" will be right back. r. "morning joe" will be right back she's a light fury. he's not the only one. toothless, go introduce yourself. [ gasps ] ugh! [ groaning ]

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joining us now member of the house homeland securities, democrat you can congressman max rose of new york. >> thanks for having me back. >> i'll pass it around the table but i want to start with something that hits here in new york which is the 9/11 victims compensation fund. again, here we are having to fight to get the funds. they're going to slash the

benefits that go out to people affected by the toxins that they inhaled while they cleaning up near ground zero. why do we have to fight to get these basic compensation for those people? >> when you think about this, every person who is sick today as a consequence of those attacks on 9/11, every person who passes they're a victim just like someone who died that day. this should not be a fight but that's washington, d.c. for you. we have people in d.c. who on one hand are saying we will never forget. on one hand are going to new york city and thanking people for their service. and then that he ear fighting this type of piece of legislation. it's unbelievable hypocrisy. but this is not just a new york city bill. this is not just a new york city issue. we have first responders an folks who are down at ground zero in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 now virtually living in

every state of america. so this is something that every representative should be concerned with and i'm confident we'll get the resources that it needs so we don't have to go back to this fight yet again. >> you and others are going to have a reallily on capitol hill. how do we find this issue for the long-term? >> the key is is to make that commitment, that we are going to fund this for the duration of this -- of this century, because the truth is that we right now cannot perfectly analyze the exact number of people that will come forth and say that i have complications due to what i did at ground zero, but what we can guarantee is that we are going to be committed to being there for them. you know, we are still in afghanistan right now, a war that was precipitated by 9/11. directly connected. the longest war in our nation's history and we're there to

prevent another 9/11. we have to address the fund with that same resolution for them. >> you and i both know firefighters, first responders families who have died or who are sick now, who continue to get sick almost 20 years after 9/11 from what they inhaled there. >> they don't just live on staten island or in queens. they live in oklahoma, california, maryland or whatever. and you believe in veteran causes and a state of emergency by the president trump of the united states. he's going to grab monies to build the wall. among the monies are allotted already for housing, for existing army, marine corps, navy peronnel in places all over this country and in europe. what can be done, if anything, to make sure those monies are

allotted for the purpose that they were appropriateuated for. >> you dent get to declare a state of emergency when you dent get your way. this cannot become a precedent in this country. and to put this into perspective and i do think that the president and even members of the republican party aren't acknowledging the very difficult decisions that they're going to face with. do you support with wall or do you support homeless veterans? do you sup report resiliency projects or do you support some type of plits cal monument that this president is continually trying to push against the council of national security experts. to put this down to a local perspecti perspective, we are focused on building a sea wall on the east shore of sald to prevent flooding like we had in superstorm sandy. there was concern that potentially funds could be drawn from the army corps of engineers

to the dod and to this emergency declaration. pulling from one wall to build another. this is crazy. >> coming up on "morning joe," the president is now fund raising off of bernie sanders. the trump campaign blasted this e-mail to supporters. the president saying he thought bernie's new white house run was a quote, joke, until he raised $6 million in 24 hours but our next guest says there's another reason why sanders should not be underest matsed. we'll discuss that next on "morning joe." "morning joe."

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in 2016 many of the ideas that i talked about medicare for all, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, making public colleges and universities tuition free, all of those ideas people say oh, bernie, they're

so radical, they are extremely. american people just won't accept those ideas. all of those ideas and many more are now part of the political main stream. >> so you're saying the party came your way. >> well, i don't want to say that. i think most people would say that. >> love it. senator bernie sanders speaking about the direction of the democratic party after announcing another run for the presidency on tuesday. sanders raised $6 million from nearly a quarter million donors in just over 24 hours after declaring his candidacy. but our next guest says it's not progressive policy driving support for sanders, but rather his appeal to americans who feel alienated. joining us now, commentary editor for the washington examiner and a visiting fellow at the american enterprise institute, he's the author of the new book entitled "alienated

america." why some places tlooihrive whil others collapse. >> one of the things that surprised many people who do the job that we do, many people that politicians do on capitol hill was that news item here or there, or the news piece that showed people saying well, you know, i -- my -- my candidates in 2016 are down to donald trump or bernie sanders. these are the people who voted for barack obama twice and then voted for donald trump. but it's not about the fact that he's progress ifr. it's the fact that he's offering empowerment. explain. >> empowerment is a great word for this. i call the book alienated america because it's the idea that you're not connected to other people. you're not connected to the society. that really is -- it's not just a feeling. it's a fact in so much of

america. it's behind why we have so many debts of despair. it's behind poverty. it's why donald trump became president because people lack the community institutions and the ability to shape the world around them and so when bernie comes in, you noticed so many people would say he empowers us. he's about revitalizing democracy. that was one side. trump came in with the other side saying i'm going to be the strong man who alone can solve your problems even though the problems are rooted in a collapse at the local level of strong institutions of civil society. >> well, you know, and of course the cover of your book shows a decaying church and you've said from the beginning, this is not about decaying factories, this is about decaying churches and civic organizations that would usually bind people together which explains a central mystery to me as somebody that grew up

in the southern baptist church, somebody that ran and got the overwhelming number of evangelical voters in all four of my elections. it was hard for me to line on these numbers when i was seeing how all these evangelicals were blocking to donald trump. >> yes, especially in the republican primary, trump's core base was evangelicals who do not go to church. in the book i talk about places that are very robust church communities. i look at iowa where they're just an intense strong communities built around their church. that was the worst county in the republican primary and the places in western michigan that were like that saw a downturn from romney to trump.

the places with the strongest churches where people attended, those places dbts have the interest in trump. the evangelicals who said religion mattered to him, but didn't belong to a church, that was his core base. it's a lack of belonging so they seek their sense of purpose in trump. they can look like religious rallies. >> congratulations on the book. this is timely and an angle i don't think a lot of people have looked at for the rise of donald trump. but i'm curious. how we got to this place, i'm thinking about the book, "bowling alone "that sort of happened. we don't have bowling leagues anymore and that puts a tear in the fabric of our culture. how did we get here? >> well, a lot of it is modern technology recently is a part of it. facebook, our iphones, they can

drag us away, our nice air conditioned houses, roger putnam points that out. also the shape of the modern economy can be alienating. it creates more big businesses and fewer mom and pop shops where you might bump into your neighbor. the sad problem is that there's this vicious sicycle. when they turn to donald trump, that further can centralize their attention taking it away from what's close at hand and then everybody focuses their political attention on washington, d.c. rather than focusing it on their local pta, their town, their county. >> tim, i have enjoyed going through your book because you have so much incredible data in here and it's very data driven and one number that you put out

there, it surprised me and i'd like for you to help me make sense of it a little bit. you write about how you could predict the counties that would flip from president obama to voting for donald trump in 2016 based on the rate of overdose death and their mortality rate. what do you make of the decline in health care in these areas that did shift from obama to trump at the same time that you're -- you're arguing that it wasn't about economics necessarily that got donald trump elected. >> it's often the first domino that falls but you are not telling the whole story about these problems, these depths of despair if you leave out the crucial step of important community institutions and we take these things for granted but what's going to make you go to a doctor when you're sick or

even be able to find a dock door? >> what's going to cause you to have healthier lifestyles for you rorks for most of the the viewers here they've got a great network of friends whether it's at the work place or their church or their alumni situation and these ins institutions help us build better habits and they connect to us people who o when we need them. those safety nets are missing in so many parts of the country. you've got medicaid there, those things are available in the abstract but the actual human connection that people need, that's what's missing. that's what i chalk it up to. >> so tim, quick question on that last piece there and broadening it out. which came first? what's the chicken and the egg here because it is the disintegration of this connectiveness that we had, this

1950s world view of america where we've made et through a great war and we've dealt with the depression and now the community is tighter and stronger than ever and now we look at where we are today and those bonds, those civic organizations, religious institutions that cover the back is a profound and i think a prophetic image in that regard about how things broke down. so what started it? was it our attitude, the politics, was there cultural changes of the 60 and the uplevel in the churches and the community, what drove this sense of alienation among americans who at one point seemed to be so connected and relied so much on each other? >> i think almost all of the things you listed there are some of these causes. i'm a catholic. my own church bears so much of the blame for losing worshippers and one of my arguments in my

book is you're not just losing these worshippers, they are really suffering by leaving a core organization of society. it brought with it an an increasing ietization and at the same time there's a central going on. one ge i ask -- one question i ask is why is pittsburgh doing so well right now? my argument is pittsburgh has those really strong neighborhoods, tight knit neighborhoods around churches and synagogues so when things are bad that's there to keep it from bottoming out. these thinner rural communities, they don't have as many institutions so when the steel mill shuts down there's nothing there to catch people when they fall. that's why you see a place like

fayette county a tie in 2008 and heavily trump 2016. >> hope you will come back and talk about your book "alienated more." why some places thrive while others collapse. >> it's out now. >> so now to what's going on in north carolina. on day three of that state's hearing on alleged election fraud, the republican candidate's son claimed that he tried to warn his father about illegal voting tactics used in the past by a political operative on the campaign. john harris, an assistant u.s. attorney in north carolina and the son of candidate mark harris testified yesterday that he became suspicious of mccray dallas after studying the 2016 primaries in the same rural county now under question. john harris noticed that ballots were being turned in in batches

for the candidate dallas. harris said that he encouraged his father not to hire dallas for the 2018 midterms which he still did. >> i prexed my concerns based on everything that i did know up to that point. namely, my belief that mccray had engaged in collecting bat lots in 2016. i told him that collecting ballots was a felony. >> as your father or your parents said anything that make you believe that they knew mr. dallas was collecting -- >> absolutely not. >> i love my dad and i love my mom. okay? i certainly have no vendetta against them, no family scores to settle.

okay? i think they made mistakes in this process and they certainly did things differently than i would have done them. >> wow. >> mike barnicle, just a shocking shocking turn of events in north carolina yesterday. painful watching that testimony from a son, talking about his mom and dad who he loves. >> yeah. but in its own way, joe, a positive story. an assistant u.s. attorney. took a lot of courage for him to take the stand and tell the truth to his parents and about his parents in a public setting like that. it's something to draw a positive note from. >> all right. up next, president trump once hammered north korea's leader for threatening the u.s. with missiles. will he do the same now that it's vladimir putin, who is doing the threatening? that conversation is next on "morning joe." "morning joe."

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joining us now, eurasia group foundation mike hannah, which paints a clear picture of the disconnect between american policy experts and american people on foreign policy. that disconnect concerns me a great deal, joe. >> it really does. mark, putin's words come straight out of the cold war. and a lot of warnings that ronald reagan heard in the 1980s, that if he deployed the persian two missiles to western europe it was going to start, obviously, a new arms race. we're seeing very quickly the effects of dismantling the inf treaty and some other treaties. what are the dangers? >> largely i think the american people are disinterested in getting an arms race back on track. the 1980s called and they want their foreign policy back. we have to be careful when we

listen to putin's speech. because he is -- you know, he's basically responding to a decision by the trump administration to pull out of this treaty. but as a brookings scholar said he's paying mostly lip service to war mongering. there was more about sewage treatment and his economy imploding. i don't think he has a stomach, let alone the wallet to get involved in an arms race with the u.s. we need to make sure we're not inflating the threat of that actually re-emerging. >> what about the threat to atta attacks to nato allies? obviously it's concerning 95% of experts who say that the u.s. should respond militarily but only 54% of the public say the same. what should we take from that disconnect? >> the arguments as to why we want to enforce our nato treaties, and the rationale for

response. that case isn't necessarily being made, at least not successfully, to the american people. in our survey, if estonia were invaded by russia, even though they're reminded of the treaty's obligations and told that the only way to expel russia is military intervention, the american public is split down the middle on whether they want to respond. and the number one reason they cite is that the inviability of our treaty response. >> we made a deal with ukraine. we said give up your nuclear weapons, we will defend your borders. we didn't do it. now if we walk away from our nato treaty and obligations we agreed to, what good are these treaties? people will stop entering treaties with us. >> the difficulty of the treaty now, joe, we have a president of the united states that doesn't

understand the intricacies of the very treaty that has governed us for over 70 years. mark, in your study the public reaction to this foreign policy, how much does 18 years of being at war tilt those numbers? >> i think tremendously. in fact, we saw the younger generation responding less enthusiastically about military intervention in the case of humanitarian assistance. younger people are often stereotyped as more empathetic toward vulnerable populations but it's not surprising when you consider their only experience with american military has been with these wars in afghanistan, iraq, largely unsuccessful military ventures that were not necessarily tied acutely to a national interest. they didn't live through the victories of the cold war let alone world war ii so a case where american interventionism hasn't been made to that

generation very well. >> and we don't have much time left but quickly, what did your survey reveal about attitudes toward military spending and increasing defense spending? >> largely, across party lines, people are uninterested in increasing the budget for the military. the majority of the people, whether you're democrat, republican, wanted to maintain it or decrease it. among the whole population, about 45% of the population is interested in maintaining the current military spending. but of the others, twice as many people want to decrease military spending as increase it. i think it's important to mention foreign policy establishment isn't necessarily wrong and the american people aren't necessarily right. but in a democracy it's extremely important that the will of the people be regarded and respected and while we're promoting democracy around the world that we're not disregarding the popular will at home. we need to make the case and engage the public more intimately. >> do their job and authorize the wars that we're involved in.

>> absolutely. >> mark hannah, thank you so much. quick moment now for final thought. >> michael steele, final thoughts? >> that last point is an important one on the heels of the upcoming north korea summit. how the president now engages on foreign policy, given all the domestic issues, will be something to watch. >> it really will. there's also responsibility for candidates running in 2020 to understand foreign policy, explain foreign policy and explain why it's important for america to remain engaged in the world. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika. hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle. on the clock. in a few hours, roger stone will be in front of a judge that he showed in an instagram post next ss