tter le.if vladimir putin's goal is to get rid of face of impock democracy. thank you all, that does it for us, thank you for watching "mtp daily" starts right now with my friend chuck todd. my usual 5:00.18. i think i gain three seconds by coming from the west. is that how the time zone works, is that how it works? if it is thursday we're just waiting and waiting and waiting.

good evening and welcome to "mtp daily." as nbc news and others have been reporting all week there is word that robert mueller may wrap up his report in the next couple weeks. roger stone left the courthouse with a gag order and a tern warning from the judge that another misstep will land him in jail. there is no third strike for him. michael cohen was on capitol hill has lawmakers will question him again over multiple days next week. but if mooul sere wrapping up next week boy is he in for a long weekend. to p to borrow the phrase there is a

lot of known unknowns. here is just a sample of the bomb shells that we could get answers to sooner or later from mueller. first off, we know the russians interfered in the election. but what we don't know and what mueller is investigating is did members of the trump campaign knowingly work with russia to do that? if so did mr. trump know about it? that is the big one. there are many more. who else will be charged. don junior, brad parscale. we don't believe any one of them have been questioned by mueller. tomorrow is friday, a typical indictment day. who helped wikileaks cur rate and release the hacked he mails to make maximum damage to hillary clinton. it must have been someone with

deep knowledge of u.s. politics and it's hard to imagine it was not an american. what did mr. trump know about the trump tower meeting and when did he know it? do the russians have something on president trump, how much of the steele dossier was true? here is another one, could president trump still be subpoenaed? if you recall yesterday, harry litman told me last night that it would make sense if you planned to subpoena the president that you might wait for the last minute to do it. why has he misdirected on all things in the campaign, why does he act like he has something to hide? why isn't he curious to find out if any americans hurt him?

joining me for this conversation, former federal prosecutor, sal weisenberg. howard fineman, and daniel pletka. i say it this way, all of the reporting has been based on the justice didn't preparing. based on everything that we don't know and have not heard from mueller, would it surprise you if he could wrap this and have a report early next week? >> no no, it would not surprise

me at all. he did a lot of work and he has whatever else you can say about his team, he has a highly qualified team with him. >> how many of those unknown unanswered questions has he at times hinted that there is more information. how many of those do you think will get complete answers to? the question is how much of that comes to the american people. barr is the -- mueller is the special council. special council's like independent councils have a special role in the system, but then barr has to worry about how

much of that can be released. a lot of it will be 6e material. some of it will be national security information. i suspect that mueller while his report will be fulsome, he will write it in a way so that it ke be released by barr. for example, if you have a person who is testifying at the grand jury, you can't release that information unless you get a court order. if they same person was interviewed you first, that is not covered by the rule. there is more things that he can do if he wants to release most of that report publicly. >> what is the question that you

think matters the most here? >> i talked to a member of congress that said they expect a fight in terms of william bar. they said the democratic stander will be that every redakotction justified. there will not be a leader that says hey, vlad, let's collude. did russia know something about him? is there a financial connection? a loan there? is there something if they knew that would hurt the president directly. >> you know, danny, i want to get to what you're curious about. but one observation i have about bill barr is that he is bullet proof for a small period of time by donald trump.

he can't immediately fire another attorney general. i'm curious to see if he will use his political capital that he has in this moment. >> one has to ask what he would think the best use of that political capital is, and i think that is a mystery to all of us. it was a miystery to many why bill barr took the job. >> i think on monday you're like what is he doing? >> i still don't get it, frankly. but i think the problem for all of us is there is such a swirl of innuendo. there is such an unbelievable mass of story telling that if this doesn't come out that the president was colluding with the russians, and that he was sitting in the kremlin making plans, that will be disappointing and everything will be a procedural fight rather than substantive fight. >> i think the answer to your

question what do we want to know? it is more complex and more simple at the same time. i think the american people, any fair minded person, they want to know what happened. we used to say in the news mississippi, what is the tick tok? what is the sequence of events here, who knew what when? who had what motivation. that's where things like finances, blackmail, and bribery come in. i have a sense from talking to my hill sources that you're not going to get that immediately. the reporting out of this thing through the mechanics of the law, through journalism and congressional meetings, are halfway through it. >> sal, given your experience with the star report, what

lessons do you take away from that that you would advice bvis mueller to do or not to do. >> the first thing that he is going to do, or barr will have him do if they want to publicize any of this, you have to get a court order. all of it is from the grand jury, it covers matters occurring before the grand jury. we got a court order before we send it under seal. same thing with leon. he got an order to release this stuff under seal to congress. first you have to get past that. but the broader answer is that the american people do want answers and i think mueller wants to give them those answers consistent with his duty.

if all barr does is issue a summary, a very brief summary that says the president and all of his assistants and family members are exonerated, no one will be satisfied with that. so i think not only will barr issue -- try to issue public side it as much of the report as possible in his summary, i think he should release the bar report as much as he can. he could have mueller go to a court and get an order releasing it. i think that is in the national interest. and one other thing, sorry, the other thi other thing is there is a lot of people that work for or with the president that might want to be

publicly exonerated. you may want to -- if you feel you're innocent, you may want to have that reflected in a report. >> so i want to deep dive into one specific question at the beginning of this whole thing that has to do with the mike flynn guilty plea and what he lied about. this jumped out at us in the mccabe book. he describes his conversation with michael flynn about the meeting and he says when i told him people were curious about his conversations with kslyak. to flynn's point i have no comment, but i have to wonder as events played out if you thought we were listening why would you lie. it is interesting there was a tweet that was deleted from mike philip flynn's son saying he didn't do anything wrong. then you say wait what if mike

flynn was just taking a direct order from the commander in chief. >> this goes toward if there was something dangble thtangible th trying to hide, or that if he just wanted to be lifted. and hopefully the mueller report will help us answer. one set of people this puts on the spot to take a position is the congressional republicans. they say we don't have the full picture yet. they view the mueller report as putting together the pieces of the puzzle that are on the table. >> but i go back to this thing because flynn has to know we were listening to kslyak. so there is a blank spot that we don't know here.

why would he plead guilty to lying. there is a missing piece here that we don't know about this flynn situation. >> this is a suspicion that we all have that he copped a plea on lying because there was going to be something else. erg that we know about flynn is that there was so much else. he was an agent for turkey while in office. all of these other things that were criminal statutes. >> while the president's instincts is always to try to stifle any questions about him that he went to really direct, forceful, and extreme lengths early on. it was almost uncharacteristic of donald trump in a sense that he was so insistent about the phil flynn point that what else might

there be there. this wasn't awfully far awfully early. >> it looks weirder when you look back at it. there is about assumption that donald trump and brad pascale are not out of the woods because they have not been interviewed you are probably a target. should -- is that how we should be reading thist don junior situation. >> i don't know the full story on whether or not he has been interviewed or why he has not, but i find it hard to believe that since what we know about donald trump junior goes to the heart of what mooul sere investigating, i find it hard to believe that mueller would issue a report and not made a prdecisn

about donald trump junior. you would have to think it would come before the report is sent over and it looks like there is a very short window on that. i think i have to say a lot of people are overthinking the mike flynn lie. >> i have been worried about that myself, but when you go back after not looking at it for two years you think wow, there are some holes here. sol, always great to have you as a quarterback for us. the rest of you have to stay. coming up, a member of the military and a self identified white nationalist accused of attacking journalist. the president is completely silent. we're digging into hate and extremism in this trump era, next. extremism in this trump era, next and vast expertise to work.

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the sheer number and force and the weapons recovered in this case, coupled with the disturbing nature of his wrig writings appear to be a threat to our community. >> welcome back that was the u.s. attorney this afternoon talking about christopher hassin. a coast guard lieutenant and self described white nationalist. nbc asked the white house repeatedly today when and if the president was briefed on this arrest that happened on friday, mind you. there is a simple reason we want to know if he was aware of the arrest and target list when he said the "new york times" was the enmy of the people. the white house has yet to get

back to us. the president has not said a thing publicly about this arrest, but he tweeted today about jussie smollett, the actor that staged a racist and homophobic attack on himself. i want to bring in brian levin, thank you for coming on, much appreciated. >> thank you, chuck. >> oh, great, let me start with this. that is that when you look at -- how is it that that he was stockpiling a pile of weapons and held a position why the coast guard, how uncome is that to happen. >> it is unfortunately a little too common for comfort.

20 some odd years ago i was in the washington post talking about skin heads in the army. so unfortunately the military is a home for hate mongers. i'm not saying most people in the military or veterans are someone that would do these kinds of things, but in this movement they target lone wolfs and they want something with military expertise and training. >> does the coast guard have in place, what are the background checks. this is a terrorist inside the federal government.

it is one thing for eric robert rudolf to be in the woods, he was drawing atax taxpayer fund paycheck. >> and timothy mcveiay had a bronze star. this glorifies getting military people involved. the person that killed juish people in kansas, in the 80s, he was trafficking in stolen milita military equipment. this is something that the federal government should look at. we want to make sure that people in sensitive positions are not having access to heavy weaponry and be part of these extremist movements, we saw another example here in southern california where they exposed

another individual that had a social security laerns. >> what is the line on being thought police? >> the federal courts said active membership in hate and extremist groups is something that can result in people being dismessed from sensitive positions. the problem is this came out when hate groups had membership cards and they met in cabins and other stuff. now people are getting radicalized on the internet. that became their peer group. it is harder to enforce these kind of rules because folks today are more stealth in how they operate and they go into places they're not as exposed as

much. in charlottes vville, these gros imploded and now they have leaper meaner loaners or individuals that had smaller local groups. >> i want to ask you about the fact -- should we is it important to notice this pattern when you look at the guy that shot conceive scalise, the sin g -- synagogue chute shooter, th bomb guy that was living in a van, they all seem to fit a certain pro file of older, middle aged white males, loners of sorts, struggling with fair job, politics, extreme on the lef left or the right, giving them a sense of purpose, and it warps

them. i know you to be careful, but that does look like a pattern over a two-year period, does it not? >> yes, and this is the interesting thing, first we see a rise in white nationalist extremists in a crowded threat may trix, and what we're seeing structurally are those folks pointing more towards leaner independent actors that we may not even know who they are. they have learned from being docked they will be fired from jobs and things like that. but we're seeing this across the ideological spectrum, but white nationalist are the most ascendant when the threat is coming from a smaller group or indeed, loners getting radicalized on social media. >> i want to ask you about, though, what does the jussie

smollett situation, that turns out to be a hoax, and you have some activist on the right saying that was a hoax, this is proof that the hate crime business is sort of over cooked and over done, or over used. whatever you want to do. what does this moment do to your work and trying to have people take this issue seriously? >> it is devastating. we're living in an era where tweets and emotions take over. thank you for the opportunity to tell the audience what the facts are. we have an estimated 21,000 hate crimes. the fbi counted about 13,000. our most recent study that will be out soon shows that hate crimes in 30 of the largest american cities have reached a record high.

hate homicides increased last year. and we compare that to false reports, less than 50. we saw eight last year when we estimated there was over 7700. let's be real and have policy responses to this. indeed many cities like miami, miami didn't report one hate crime this decade until 10 in 2018. we have a bigger problem with under reporting. 54% of hate crime victims don't report. they introduced legislation so police will be able to better collect data on this. we need a national response, we need model policies, better data collection, training, and victim outreach and this one story has eclipsed all of these things when we're seeing people who are victim siized and their reports

don't get taken. mississippi only counted one hate crime last year. >> that is why he has to realize all of the hurt and pane in he caused thousands of people. >> can i say one quick thing about that? >> very quick, sir. >> briefly we're seeing a increase in hate violence but also with political violence. those places that counted say it is going up and what we saw with 2016, the worst month for a hate crime since the first anniversary of 9/11 in 2002 according to our research and our computuniversity partners, there was a bomb plot and more hate crimes than we have seen going back to 2003 and we saw a lit of a repeat election time 2018 in major cities like philly, new york, chicago, and los angeles. >> brian levin, obviously at cal

state in san bernardino, thank you very much, appreciate your expertise on this. jo joe biden is biding his time. we'll talk to a journalist that knows him better than anybody. a knows him better than anybody. ng my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis. but i realized something was missing... me. the thought of my symptoms returning was keeping me from being there for the people and things i love most. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira can help get, and keep, uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts so you could experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b,

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jumps in and one jumps out. it is a senate 2020 vision. >> no interest in being a senator from kansas? >> i love doing what i'm doing. >> sounds like you're not ruling it out. >> it is ruled out. >> after a couple months of uncertainty, secretary of state mike pompeo today said no to a 2020 senate bid. republican leaders were hoping for a high profile recruit to help avoid a divisive primary. meanwhile republicans have their first candidate for the senate race at the top of their target list. >> look at washington and tell me you don't see a disconnect between your values and the values they have there. jones will have quite a challenge running in a

presidential year. >> bradley burns has to get through a primary, it is something that he ran into a problem with last time he ran statewide. can he have a clear primary field? if he does, doeg jones has a tough vote. up next, the likely heard of a joe biden 2020 run. e biden 2020n to help manage blood sugar, and start making everyday progress. glucerna. with retirement planning and advice for what you need today and tomorrow. because when you're with fidelity, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. because when you're with fidelity, at a comfort inn with a glow taround them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com." who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom.

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some people here have their eyes set already on the 2020 election. and -- >> i don't know who that is. the presidential democratic field has ten announced candidates, but a decision from the former vp could be coming soon. my colleague reports that biden told democratic figures he is 90% likely to run and he speaks

regularly with former president obama about it. but the sore spot for him is the attack on family. joining me now is mike, biden wants to run for president. >> he wants to be president. >> hunter biden, that seems to be, i want to put up a statement he gave to vanity fair a few weeks ago. it seems like this is the 10%. the priority has always been clear if i more dad as it is now for me. never run from a struggle. he loves me. and he loves the american people far too much to let adversity stand in the way of service. i have to think it cuts every way for the vice president. >> the thing that has been interesting is i have been having the 2020 conversation

with him for two years now if not longer than that, and the people closest to to the family are the most bearish. he had a difficult divorce. there was a lot of issues with substance abuse raised, how he spent his family's money, and that is one of the things that keeps coming up. he is worried about the affect on hunter and donald trump, what did he said about ted cruz? what did he say about jeb bush and their families? nothing is sacred to him. biden's family will be an issue. he has a book comes out in two months, biden was still doing himself book events about the death of his son, beau. it will be an issue no matter what. is it better for hunter biden if it joe biden runs or doesn't

run. as you saw there he doesn't want to be the reason his dad doesn't run. >> it seems -- i just emphasize with the vice president as a father. it seems he can now figure that he might hurt his son no matter what he does. >> what i have been told by people close to the family and they rally around each other in a fight. i quote chris koocoo koons is d involved in that, let us fight the fight for you. >> it is astounding that it is a given that the assumption is of course president trump will make this an issue. and of course it won't backlash on him. why do we think it won't backlash on the president if he goes really low blow.

>> one thing i will be curious to see is we're all just desensitized to everything he does. we have seen it already. i looked up every trump tweet that mentioned biden. it talks about him being physically and mentally week. my strategy for the family is they might target joe, suggesting his own emotional state a fragile. that is a charge that could be seen as a projection of course, and he talked to -- i think you were there for the anchors. he sees, perhaps, joe biden as the biggest target. >> very quickly, president obama at times looks like he is sending a message to the vice president it is time for a new generation. what is this, does he want him to run or not. >> i think one thing that was clear in joe biden's book is the president wasn't more for him

running in 2016 what i'm hearing is the president wants to be supportive. what is curious is that there will not be an ask on biden's part. clearly i think there is a vision for how they can both maintain their stature as elder statesmen in biden's space especially. >> anyone scare him in the field? >> he is close with kamala harris. bernie is not my brand of democrat it was put this week, but there is no debate he has changed the conversation in the party. i hope you have been this because you have been on this beat for quite some time. we'll be back with a different way to look at the democratic divide. as a fitness junkie, i customize everything -

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it is time for "the lid." the president has tweeted on jussie smollett, bwhat about th tens of millions you have offended. i'm not surprised he has not jumped on the white nationalist thing and he does want to jump on the jussie smollett. the fact that he is not acknowledging one and talking about the other, did that surprising? >> unfortunately it is not a

surprise. he has given every hatt ehater these attacks are made up. the president has too often a part of that. >> that is why it was such a bone headed move by jussie smollett, in reality a staged hate crime doesn't under cut it more than a murder under cuts homicide laws. someone will say, a faction of people will say another jussie smollett? >> howard, it feels like at times we're in a tinderbox, and i don't know,ly get off of social media and i say the rest of america will be just fine, but boy our politicians i wish they would get off of social

media, they're helping give us anxiety. aside from the racial fault lines he as well. in other words -- >> sure, this is total fox agenda, sure. >> every aspect of his agenda and i look at it from the political context but on a personal basis, too, it's not only a tragedy, it's an outrage, what he did. because he hurt the lives of millions of people by what he did. >> let me do the awkward transition to joe biden and sometimes you just say it. you say it's awkward and you can name transition. he's 90% there, howard and yet we've been here when biden's been 90%. and he has held off. my gut has been no but he

clearly wants to run. >> i've probably covered joe biden as long as anybody in town. and you have a clip of him speaking at the university of pennsylvania where i last year had him to my class. >> very nice. >> and i will say in a classroom of about 20 kids, off the record, no cameras, no nothing, he just blew the doors off and the kids loved him and he said all kinds of inspiring and wonderful things and you saw the best of joe biden and i think after walking out of that classroom he probably said to himself i got it, i've got to do it. and i know how upset he is and mike talked about this about the fact that barack obama didn't come out for him in 2016. >> and did seem at times of t trying to send a message she's the heir apparent. >> and one of his moat vagtss s

is -- motivations for doing this is joe feels like he's always underestimated, like he's not quite there and he has to get there this way and the fact that obama went there the other way eats at him. i think he wants to run but the family thing is very, very difficult. it's a messy situation. he believes the age thing is not an issue. having seen him with those kids if he could run the campaign that way everybody would be fine but a big national campaign is a vast undertaking and i have to say in the past he hasn't successfully managed them so i don't know where he is. he could go either way. >> democrats don't usually go back in time to find a candidate. democrats usually go back in time, the republicans usually grab a former vice president or runner-up. >> everything is up in the air for the democrats. i don't know who isn't running for democratic nomination but i think you said it wrong when you said it at the outset.

you said joe biden really wants to run. and i think the reality is joe biden wants to be president. >> that's fair. how he gets there is another story. >> he's run two not very good campaigns and he could, is he could destroy his family and he could lose. >> the ideology questions, many he took in the senate, does he want to spend the year talking about the '94 crime bill, explaining those things that seem fine in the moment but the democratic party is in a different place. his poll numbers are lie because of universal rain recognition. but once he's judged on his own, how will that look? he could occupy the centrist moderate lane in the democratic primary. i think it's more of a like lane now, hard to drive the debate when the party has moved in such a progressive direction but if there are other progressives on

the highway crashing into each other, that could be a viable path. >> you can't see him as i saw him last year with those kids and not admire and appreciate his gifts. whether he's ever going to actually be able to translate those in the way he would like isn't clear. >> who should be wishing he doesn't run in that democratic side? it is amy klobuchar and sherrod blown and beto? is that the thing? >> starting with klobuchar i would say and probably sherrod brown to a point although he's more progressive populist as well. >> i think the left lane center lane thing is a little bit overstated and it's a bike lane. everybody is going to be debating the byrernie agenda to 2016 and how you can apply in the a way to beat donald trump. that will be everybody's conference. >> i am convinced the state of iowa will produce somebody in that bike lane.

danny, howard -- come on, that was good, that is a good iowa reference. up next, if the shoe fits, let's hope it stays on. hope it stays n

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the future only happens the latest inisn't just a store.ty it's a save more with a new kind of wireless network store. it's a look what your wifi can do now store. a get your questions answered by awesome experts store. it's a now there's one store that connects your life like never before store. the xfinity store is here. and it's simple, easy, awesome. well, in case you missed it, the biggest rivalry in regular season college basketball took center stage last night. north carolina versus duke and you don't even have to be a college basketball fan to appreciate that this was one hell of a game. for starters, it's not everyday

you see a former president sitting courtside, but yes that's barack obama and he was probably there to see the same guy that a bunch of us have wanted to see for the first time, a guy named zion. it's not everyday a star player goes down in just the first 33 seconds. but in one of the more bizarre sports injuries, the phenom that everybody wants to see, including barack obama, zion williams, his leg buckled as his other foot somehow tore straight through his nike sneaker. holy schnikes. of which nike is promising a full investigation. nike, you let duke shoes do this? by the way, nike shares have dropped. this is serious, we're not making that up. that's not the only only unusual thing that happened. a number of nba stars tweeted well wishers, including carlos boozer. at least he tried. he tweeted well wishes to zion national park. for the record, zion williamsson and zion national park are not the same.

here are a few key differences. one spans 300 miles, the other has a wingspan of 6'10". while one is partially closed. the other is somehow always open. anyway, having a little fun with you, carlos. that's all for tonight. this is as nice i'll before to duke alums. back with more "mpt daily." "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. breaking news in the mueller probe. trump adviser roger stone took the stand for the first time. he was grilled by a mueller prosecutor and he was rebuked and silenced by a federal judge. we are reporting on a truly wild day in federal court where judge amy berman jackson took trump aide roger stone to task. there's no other way to put it. pressing him in public court proceedings on whether he was today lying to the court and then she shut him down. supersizing a partial gag order into a full gag order against donald trump's