by the gig or get unlimited. get $250 back when you pre-order a new samsung galaxy. click, call, or visit a store today. we'll see you at noon eastern. it's time for "up with david gura." >> this issup. a new memo from the special counsel. maybe as important this morning is what is not in that 800-page document. >> it also doesn't tell us one way or the other what evidence bob mueller might have put together. >> plus michael cohen gets ready to spend three days on capitol hill. his testimony could determine the future of donald trump's

presidency. >> he knows a lot of secrets and he's prepared to go public and talk about them. >> i'm talking about bernie, beto and biden for months now, so why has only one of them jumped into the race? >> i'm bernie sanders. i'm running for president. >> sunday, february 24th, president trump continues his attacks on the russia investigation and he's reviewing books he hasn't read again. >> where is the oprah winfrey show when you need to tell everybody about this book. i need the book club. >> with me this morning, former chairman of the d.c. democratic party, a teacher of public policy at the harvard kennedy school, correspondent at business insider, and former spokesperson for the house oversight committee. we expected it by midnight friday, a sentencing memo from the special counsel suggesting how long prosecutors think paul

manafort, the president's former campaign chairman should spend in prison. manafort's misdeeds are spelled out in black and white in over 800 pages. he's accused of violating the law in the case. prosecutors highlight criminal actions under a spotlight of a campaign and a garden variety of crimes including tax fraud, money-laundering and obstruction of justice. robert mueller also suggests that paul manafort presents a risk of recidivism. so we wait for the response. robert mueller's memo does not mention any kind of conspiracy with russia. and this is something we're almost certain to see the president seize on in the coming days. >> it's very sad what's happened to paul, the way he's being treated. i've never seen anybody treated so poorly. >> how about with manafort? they raid his home at 5 this morning on a weekend and his wife is in bed and they go in with guns.

>> paul manafort's a nice guy, but he worked for me for a very short period of time, what, a couple of months? a little period of time. >> scott, let me start with you. just to get the import of this document, i said 800 pages. but you saw prosecutors go to great length to compliment that with all kinds of evidence going to the 1980s to show the kind of consultant that paul manafort was in d.c. what does it tell you about the shape of the investigation? >> as a former prosecutor, that's a very powerful document, one, two, mueller went to great pains to stay focused on manafort and not get into some of the other tangents that you raised. three, there are two sentencing memorandums. one judge practiced with or

against before she went to the bench. what you want to look for is whether or not they divert up or divert down. i doubt they're going to go down from the sentencing guideline. if they go up, because the memorandums talk about crimes while he was in prison, crimes well into 2018, witness tampering and most tral judges aren't going to stand for that. and so look for him to go to jail for a very long time regardless of what his defense counsel is saying. >> how do you read the document itself, how do you see the picture it paints of washington, d.c. you have a president who says this is he wanted to drain the swamp. >> this is the swamp. >> this is the lock ness monster. >> he was involved in what our putin's nightmares, right, the color revolutions in ukraine, he

was helping the russian government and fixing things for them. and then he came into fix donald trump. it's another client of his in another swamplike creature. how are we supposed to believe this guy is not anyone who should not be in prison. this is the worst kind of operator that the united states has seen and i think americans have lost a little bit of their innocence in reading this memo. now they know how things work and how two faced our own lobbyists can be. so this is a scary thing. >> i got a message on twitter, the professor of law at harvard university sent me a tweet. this is the substance of his most recent tweet. the very fact that mueller has said michael cohen cannot talk about the trump campaign's collusion with russia when testifying to three congressional committees next week means that mueller's findings will address that collusion. watch this. dove tailing with this, is this

highly anticipated testimony on capitol hill. we've seen the joet of what is acceptable to be asked about and what is not. what do you make of what he's saying there, that by saying there's restrictions on what he can and cannot say because of what bob mueller is investigating, it indicates there's some collusion here? >> i think with oversight committees and these type of hearings and investigations, when they're doing a public hearing, they will go out of their way to avoid at all costs doing anything that could compromise that investigation, put information out there that may not be ready to be in public light and of course they're assuming those things will be addressed by the mueller report and so they don't want to touch it until that report is public. all the committees, the intelligence committee, homeland security, oversight, judiciary, they're going to wait to do anything that touches on robert mueller's stuff until the report is now because they know that report is going to be their

blueprint for oversight. it's going to give them so many different threads, they're going to do a forensic accounting of everything that's been done by the donald trump administration based on the reports, the underlying information, all of that material is going to be key for oversight going forward. >> there's another avenue for this to come out of. cohen is going to testify privately between two different committees later on this month and where he will be discussing all hands -- there will be no bars with regard to what he knows about collusion. what you're looking for from cohen publicly and privately is what did donald trump know and when did he know it. even if it's third party hearsay, cohen is the link between those two and that's what the republicans have been holding onto. he didn't collude, but the campaign may have colluded. that will be really powerful. >> the other thing about the

cohen hearing that's going to be important, they're going to talk about trump's conflicts of interest, that's the groundwork for what they're going to use to get the tax returns. >> have a light breakfast. >> there was so much frenzy surrounding the potential release of bob mueller's report this week and then we got the cold water poured on that at the end of the week. let me play a bit of tape here. the president asked about what conversations he's had with bill barr about bob mueller's investigation and that report. >> have you spoken with him -- >> no, i have not. >> do you expect to? >> at some point, i guess i'll be talking about it. so i look forward to seeing the report. if it's an honest report, it will say that. if it's not an honest report, it won't. >> what do you make of that? there was excitement about what

we might see, concern of what parts we will see, what does it tell you about the investigation? just the way that it captured the public's imagination? >> it's been capturing the public's imagination for quite some time. i think there's an eagerness, one, to figure out how all of these pieces go together. and to bring it back to manafort and cohen, one of the things we've seen of these separate entities or moments that have come together is that mueller, these other parts, are building this case that's historical and this huge body of knowledge to tell us something important about the way the man in the white house runs and his historically run his organization, his business, his enterprise. there's been a lot of secrecy. there's not been a lot of transparency in donald trump in the way that he runs his businesses, even though we can make some assumptions, and one of the things i think that the

public is really, really interested in and what all of us are interested in is to really see what is in those documents. so what has mueller been up to for the past couple of years. but what has donald trump been up to for a long time? what has his campaign been up to for a long time. there really hasn't been any access except for these little bits and pieces that we get here and now. we know there's something there. what is the there that's there. >> as you look at the constellation that's emerging here, each of these filings give us some sense, what did yesterday's filing do to -- we're waiting to see if we get the thing that ties all the stories together. >> now we know what type of operation manafort runs, what kind of clients he has. i kept thinking, you know, what kind of people does manafort represent? what kind of person is trump?

and it reminded me of all the reporting that was done about trump hotel pan in a ma and the ways that they were able to funnel money through that -- >> funny money too. >> funny customers, funny money, they had to fill the occupancy of that property to get a loan for the trump organization. so they were forging documents. the source said i knew ivanka, don jr. and when don jr. were presented with this information, they said, we've never heard of this guy, they've produced photos of them together, this is the kind of person we're dealing with. mueller is building a case that you cannot believe a word that's come out of donald trump's mouth. >> we don't need a report to tell us that, now.

>> but some americans do and we're working on that narrative and you can't trust manafort, you can't trust trump. the republicans are going to try to say you can't trust cohen -- >> here's the thing, though. why was paul manafort chosen as the chairman of the campaign? no one had heard of manafort in 10 or 20 years. he was very popular in the 80s and 90s, made a lot of money, but why? manafort was the link between russia, crimea, and the trump campaign. and you had 101 contacts that you know before, during and after, between russia and the campaign, someone running for political office. why was he chosen? i'm looking for mueller to tell us why he was chosen. >> was it not -- roger stone, a long time -- >> we had developments with the same judge in washington, d.c. with this gag order. give him a stern talking to

about what he's been posting on instagram. give me your perspective on this man. >> modern day lobbying laws come as a result of paul manafort and roger stone. and so we saw -- one of the things that came out in this report this week is tracing it back to the 1980s, to this moment where they are engaged in all kinds of illegal, unethical, kind of immoral activities on behalf of -- acting as foreign agents for foreign governments and not disclosing that information. at one point the da issues a report saying this amounts to the unethical selling of american secrets to foreign governments. this is all in public record, donald trump is one of their clients. roger stone is very open about this and there are degrees to which we can trust roger stone, but paul manafort is also open about this in saying this is

somebody who's been our client for close to 40 years. why would we pick somebody like this for the campaign? one, these are people who have been in very much contested in republican circles but have had high profile roles but also who have had high profile rolls with donald trump. >> these people lie like breathing. >> did you ask for corroboration? >> i was like, you know what, i don't know how you know that. you have to be -- >> lastly to you. >> the other link is, all three, manafort, trump and stone all have interests and connections, business and political connections to russia. i got to tell you, you don't

lie -- you don't have contacts a hundred times and lie repeatedly and risk going to jail if there's not some type of connection. we know there's collusion in the campaign. they haven't given us the link yet. >> we're going to talk about that testimony taking place in washington this week. what exactly will michael cohen say to congress? one aide professes to know. >> that big, red line for donald trump is his children, and once michael cohen starts sharing details which may implicate him, you will see him truly become unhinged. him truly become unhinged doubts behind. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. even hanging with friends i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure

for all common types of hep c. before starting mavyret your doctor will test if you've had hepatitis b which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b, a liver or kidney transplant, other liver problems, hiv-1, or other medical conditions, and all medicines you take including herbal supplements. don't take mavyret with atazanavir or rifampin, or if you've had certain liver problems. common side effects include headache and tiredness. with hep c behind me, commoni feel free...include ...fearless... ...and there's no looking back, because i am cured. talk to your doctor about mavyret.

check in from afar with remote access, ♪ and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store. call, or go online today.

♪ welcome back to up. the count down is on as michael cohen prepares to testify before congressional committees this week. on tuesday he sits down with members of the senate intelligence committee, he's going to answer questions deposition style. on thursday he's testify before the house intelligence committee. the main event is on wednesday, michael cohen answering questions from the members of house oversight committee. several reports indicate he has new information to offer reportedly related to fund-raising for the inauguration. here's what president trump had to say about this on friday,

about his former confidant's latest trip to washington. >> do you have any concerns about michael cohen's testimony? >> no, no. lawyer/client. >> you worked on this committee in your past life. i've got this memo here that was sent out, background on it, where it's going to take place, et cetera, et cetera, and then item two, scope and purpose of the hearing and there are ten bullet points here saying these are the things that michael cohen can address, the president's debts and payments related to efforts to influence the 2016 election, compliance with campaign finance laws, the president's business practices, the trump international hotel. what do you make of that list, of the scope that's been set out here in conversation about what is and not acceptable. >> when a hearing like this is being conducted the chairman of the committee has had conversations with michael cohen and his attorney. and these bullet points were

created based on what cohen can deliver to the committee. there's no way they would have michael cohen come before the committee and testify if he didn't have anything new or interesting that isn't already in the public domain to offer to the committee and the american people. they have made this list on the determination that there's new information that cohen is going to explain things about the nexus between the trump organization and the government operations inside the white house and how they're conducted together. >> michael cohen's attorney -- >> he's an adviser know. >> we cannot comment on any matters that are still under investigation by the special counsel or the prosecutors in the southern district of new york. i can say that mr. cohen is interested in cooperating and assisting the southern district of new york. michael cohen has been back in new york meeting with federal prosecutors from the southern district. take that, what more does he have to offer? he's got two months more after

some shoulder surgery to be a free man before he goes to prison. is there more the government can get out of him either in congress or with lawyers. >> we need a crystal ball to be able to answer that question. but he's met with the mueller team and the southern district prosecutors numerous, numerous times. it's really up to them what else they need if anything. but secondly, they're looking down the line and looking around the corner to see if they let him go, if they sentence him, is there something that they may have missed or is there some manifestation. you have lawyers looking at that piece alone. but look for the hearing, though. if he goes outside those on purpose or accident, that could have an affect on his sentencing. but with that new information, all of those directly or indirectly could be connected to the russia investigation, the link to collusion. so whenever you prep a witness like this and say you've got to

stay within these areas, under the cameras or under a one on one deposition, it's hard to stay there because you want to tell the truth and at the same time you've now got this other thought, i've got to stay within these areas. look for some new information on those ten but look for some new information that may link or more connection to collusion whether he does it accidentally or to answer the question means he's got -- >> he's got to do this three days in row. a deposition, a public hearing and another deposition. if anything changes in his story from tuesday to wednesday to thursday, he's going to have a real problem there. he's perjured himself. >> in three hearings if he makes a mistake or if he does x, y or z, they're going to make him out to be the biggest liar. before he's flipped.

he was the most honorable man the republicans have ever seen. honest and honorable cohen. >> on that point, there was another member from the ranking members centering on that. how are you going to process what michael cohen says at this point having heard him in interviews, having read filings related to michael cohen, what's your sense of how trustworthy he is as a narrator as the way donald trump approached his business? >> we know donald trump only hires the finest and best people including michael cohen. so on the one hand, we know that michael cohen wants to save his own tail and that is the tack that republicans are going to take. they're going to take it in media, they're going to take it in the hearings, they're going to take it in any way possible. it's going to be about -- this is not somebody that we can trust. democrats are going to take the opposite tact in part because this has become a polarized

issue. with that said. i think it's really important that this is somebody who is trying to -- this is -- michael cohen is somebody who in trying to save his own tail is going to be -- has become the most forthcoming person and is willing to say, i will give you any information and i have a lot of information that you need to hear. these are the moments where i was clearly lying, these are the other moments when i was lying. and his ability to do that and for -- actually the public to cross check it, which is part of why we've -- they called for these hearings, this idea about transparency, exposure to new information, that's going to be really important. again, if there are these moments where he does perjure himself, heath himself -- >> he's got the most to lose. >> this is a moment where there will be fireworks. there is going to be a lot of political theater. how important is that versus what substance might come out of it, using this as an opportunity to set the groundwork for these

other investigations, but intelligence, financial services, all these other committees -- >> so far the democrats have done an excellent job with their theater. the women all in white, nancy pelosi with her jabs and she's winning the we are competent, we look good war. the republicans had center stage for the last two years. this is the democrats first chance to really put their energy into questioning about the russia investigation. i will be very interested in seeing anything that has to do with the trump hotel in washington because even if we can't talk about collusion with the russians, there's some interesting stuff going on with the saudi government at that hotel buying huge room blocks. you're going to see everything that was going on between the trump campaign and during the inauguration at the trump hotel. i think those are all questions that cohen will be a little privy to or be able to say, this is how the trump organization

does business and this is how we would treat it at a certain event or issue. this isn't russia but it's the swamp. it's nasty. it is something that would give americans a lot of pause. so i'm very interested -- and it's current. >> one thing to keep an eye on, this is going to be the biggest stage that we're going to see alexandria ocasio-cortez on. it will be interesting to see how they conduct their questioning. >> counter programming, michael cohen making headlines in washington while president trump is trying to distract from that halfway around the world. what could go wrong? president trump leaves for his second summit with kim jong-un tomorrow. >> it's amazing because i got to go to plains and have lunch. >> there are a number of issues at play here. one is -- >> the majority of states in

this country -- this country -

♪ ♪ 'cos i know what it means ♪ to walk along the lonely street of dreams ♪ ♪ here i go again on my--- you realize your vows are a whitesnake song? i do. if you ride, you get it. geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more.

>> this is up. from singapore to hanoi, president trump is scheduled to hold his second summit with kim jong-un in vietnam. the administration's stated goal is the same as it was last time,

to persuade north korea to give up its nuclear weapons. here's what dan coats told lawmakers last month. >> we currently north korea will seek to retain its capabilities and is unlikely to completely give up its nuclear weapons because its leaders view nuclear weapons as critical to regime sur survival. >> president trump has massaged expectations for what will constitute a successful second summit. >> there's been no testing, rockets, missiles or nuclear. so we're in no rush. a lot of the media would like to say, what's going on? speed, speed, speed. no rush. we're going to have our meeting. we'll see what happens. >> "politico" reporting secretary of state mike pompeo has expressed frustration about the lack of diplomatic progress.

gordon chang joins us now. great to see you. i'm looking at some of the president's most recent tweets about this trip. he's scheduled to leave tomorrow. one ends with denuclearization, question mark. another centers on the -- chairman kim realizes that without nuclear weapons his country could become one of the great economic powers anywhere in the world because of its location and people and him. it has more potential for rapid growth than any other nation. if you're starting at the bottom, there's a long way that you can go. your reaction to that? as he goes and meets one on one, we don't know the circumstances, the timing, is it your sense that that's going to be high up on the president's agenda? >> he certainly will. he did that in singapore. he had that video about what north korea could be like. but this is really changing the goalpost. trump started talking about how

the north korea poised a danger to the american homeland, now it looks like he's changing his policy. it's not so much denuclearization, whatever that means, really what it looks like he's doing is trying to pry north korea away from china and that has all sorts of different priorities, all sorts of different tactics. if you look at what the president is doing, you can't say this is an attempt to disarm north korea, but this does look like an attempt to go against china. >> there was an op-ed in the "new york times" this week -- in blum berg, talking about human rights. the point he was making, needs to talk about this. trump will never realize his dream of seeing north korea trade its missile launch pads for beech front condominiums and coo coops -- unless he addresses the issue. >> do you expect that at the end of all this, there will be some

mention of human rights in the way there wasn't? >> no. i don't expect there is. it was interesting, you go back two state of the unions, you had the north korean escaper. you also had president trump's statement -- speech to the national assembly in south korea before that, that was good on human rights as well. it's disappeared from the u.s. dialogue. that's a mistake. north korea is so vulnerable and they realize it's vulnerable. by the way, david, this is the same thing on china. china puts his best diplomats on human rights. we put our worst. this is just a really misallocation of our resources. >> we don't have that point person on human rights for the koreans in place yet. i was asking you about the politics surrounding what we were talking about before, the mueller investigation, let me ask about the politics

surrounding this, ignor. there isn't the same sense of fervor of the summit. you had president trump saying that in conversations with president obama, president obama told him we were on the brink of a massive war with north korea. what do you make of what's leading to the summit? >> so part of i think what we can look at with donald trump and something like this is how does donald trump view this through the lens of which his base would perceive it. one of the things, if you look right now and you kind of look at what the base is saying and saying about these issues, it's clear they're saying that donald trump has brokered peace with north korea for the first time ever. and so i think this is one of the ways that we have to look at it and this is one of the ways you have to imagine how donald trump is operating in this moment. a lot of it is symbolism. a lot of it is what is the larger argument that i can make to my base that they can pick up and suggest this is a victory, this is a win. and so i think in one way, in

some respects, what we've seen in these interactions with trump have always been through the lens of symbolic victories, can i claim victories with north korea, can i claim symbolic victories in saying that i've brokered peace with north korea or can i claim that we are going to turn north korea into an economic engine of prosperity. this becomes an argument in a way of suggesting i have won, i have done more than any president before us, even as we're not actually seeing that much on the actual ground. >> last question, you said denuclearization, whatever that, i can picture steve with an index card defining that, trying to get some unified definition that he can pass off to the president, this is what it is, this is what we think it is and what it needs to be. how huge is that, just establishing what denuclearization is at the summit?

do you have a sense that this time around, that is being etched out in stone more than it was? >> they're trying to define it. because denuclearization is a really vague term. for the north koreans it means the u.s. giving up its nuclear weapons, the chinese doing the same and the russians doing the same. we don't view it in those terms. what the president should have done was talk about disarming north korea. that's very clear. when you talk about denuclearization of -- a complete denuclearization of the korean peninsula, that brings in all sorts of things, u.s. troops, u.s. weapons, et cetera. >> the president saying it's all on the table. thank you very much as always and up next one of the things the president uses twitter for is hocking books. a peek inside his book club and what they all have in common. what's the commander in chief of staff's favorite read? >> that's my second favorite book of all time. do you know what my first is?

the bible. nothing beats the bible. nothing beats the bible. not even the art of the deal. not even close. of the deal not even close mobile experience awards, number one in video streaming according to nielsen, and number one in network quality according to j.d. power. we're proud to be the only network to win in all four major awards-- not because of what it says about us, but what it means for every one of our customers. choose america's most reliable network, and get apple music, on us, when you do. why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. we're the tenney's and we're usaa members for life. call usaa to start saving on insurance today. and we're usaa members for life. guys do whatever it takes to deal with shave irritation. so, we re-imagined the razor with the new gillette skinguard.

it has a unique guard between the blades. that's designed to reduce irritation during the shave. because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. the best a man can get. gillette. run with us on a john deere 1 series tractor. because changing your attachments, whether it's for this job, this job or even this job, should be as easy as... what about this? changing your plans. nothing runs like a deere. yeah. run with us. search "john deere 1 series" for more. get your 1 series for just $99 a month at your john deere dealer.

♪ i'm david gura. on twitter this weekend, president trump added another title to the unofficial donald trump book club. it is the case for trump. the latest book by the

historian. he's devoting some of it to literary criticism. that's something he said he didn't have time for when he was campaigning for the presidency. here's then candidate trump describing his reading habits. >> who was the last book you read? >> it's so long. now i read passages. i read areas, i'll read chapters. i don't have the time. when was the last time i watched a baseball game. i'm watching you all the time. >> and speaking of fox news, all the time he spends watching the channel gives us an indication of what book is going to get his stamp of approval. most of the books he picks get promoted on fox news or they're books written by his fox news friends or commentators. and then there are the classics

like t the a"the art of the dea" the reviews are pithy. lots of insight, terrific and all endorsements are capped up with the word enjoy. and then there are books the president hates. >> the book is a work of fiction. if you look at the past, he had the same problem with other presidents. he likes to sell some books. >> this woodward book is a total fraud. these people, libel laws, libel laws. >> and then there's michael wolff's fire and fury. total loser, made up, boring, fiction. but despite all of president trump's literary fire and fury, his associates and aides all acknowledge it's a rare occurrence the president

actually reads a book himself, president trump has made the art of political nonfiction great again even if he does not have the time to read it. >> you know, i love to read. actually i'm looking at a book -- i'm reading a book. i'm trying to get started. every time i do a half a page there's some emergency. i love to read. i don't get to read very much. >> coming up, they're the most diverse set of presidential hopeful and that's launched some think pieces including how does a straight white male run for president in 2020. who's still on the fence in 2020. that's coming up. in 2020 that's coming up (vo) we're carvana,

the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a few years old or dinosaur old, we want to buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate, answer a few questions, and our techno-wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds.

when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot, and pick up your car. that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car and say hello to the new way... at carvana. ♪ this is up and this is going to be good. the field of candidates vying for the opportunity to unseat donald trump in 2020 is crowded. there's wide variation in age, a historic number of female candidates, black candidates d and. only two nominees are straight white men, senator bernie sanders and congressional john delaney. the only field more packed than the presidential contenders is the group of straight white men who are still sitting on the sidelines or decided not to run.

i'm going to start with you, lynn, we were talking about it. i'll read a bit from this piece. democratic voters can choose among different ideologies, geographic backgrounds. shouldn't is male candidates just get out of the different i agree jask and demographic backgrounds, and types of experience. with so many qualified choices, shouldn't the male candidates just get out of the way? >> i hope nobody's feelings were hurt because of this, i hope no one was harmed in the production of that article. think of all the white men who have lost the presidency of the united states. i'm really concerned for them. so i think that, you know, when will a white man succeed in this country and make it to the presidency? i'm concerned. i'm really concerned. maybe no white man will ever run again if these men are not included. >> oh, my.

>> what would happen? i think they'll be okay. everyone, you know what, i think white men in this country will find some positions of power somewhere. somewhere. >> lee, let me ask you about this polling, biden, 28%, bernie sanders 20%, kamala harris, 14%, warren, 9%. what are americans waitithe pre come up with? >> honestly, one, it's really, really early. they're throwing these polls out there, they're trying to figure out, do i have what it takes to cut through the primaries? just a reminder, donald trump, our example of a white man who

never wins, didn't jump into the race until, what is it, july 2015. but part of what we're seeing here, i think bernie very early on was like, i'm going to be in this race. we knew for months, actually years before, that he was going to jump into this. right now we know that, say, somebody like joe biden is really testing the grounds. committee make through the primaries? we know beto is doing the same thing. can he make through the primaries? but i've got to say, the thing that is going to drive this and what's going to ultimately drive who ends up getting the nomination is the democratic base. that is going to be it. we know that the democratic base is predominantly made up of black women. so we should really be looking at what are black women looking at, what are they looking for? black women are based on policy, on the issues. so, really, any candidate should really be tailoring themselves to the issues and what are the

progressive causes and agendas. >> scott, before we get to you, i want to play senator sanders. let's take a listen. >> we have got to look at candidates, you know, not by the color of their skin, not by their sexual orientation or their gender, and not by their age. >> bernie sanders hitting every criticism he anticipates getting there, i think. the 77-year-old straight white male candidate from vermont. >> that's pretty insulting to people of color. if you run that graphic again of the democratic candidates right now, that's america. that's the result of the browning of america. that article about white men perhaps sitting out is race politics and race identity politics at its worst, if you ask me, because that graphic is america. and white america very often is afraid of that graphic because we may have a multitude of

cultures and colors in this country, and maybe for once we can face and reconcile the race question that america struggles for. i don't think it's going to matter. democrats love to win the argument but they don't want to win the vote or they hardly ever win the vote when they want to win the argument, right? so i want someone to be qualified. i don't care what color or gender they are, because america is at risk. the trump white house threatens all of us in very meaningful, personal ways beyond immigration, beyond the race question. we've got international and foreign policy issues. so democrats have to formulate the white ticket to beat donald trump and what it represents for the worst of america. i don't think that's a fair article. >> kurt, you were a republican. you're a new democrat. you just got your card, so as you look at this -- >> welcome aboard, man. hey! >> the pastries are a part of it. >> you would have joined earlier. >> what's your reaction to this, the field of candidates that

you're seeing as you look ahead to 2020? >> i think it's a good thing when you have a broad, diverse group of people competing for winning the ideas. i think that's something that the democrats are going to do better than the republicans did in the last free-for-all that they had, because you have candidates of actual substance. you have candidates of experience. you have candidates that actually care about what's happening in this country. what i want as a new democrat, i want the ticket that can be donald trump. this is not an election we can afford to play with. this is not an election we can lose because we're only at the halfway point. >> if he wins again, shame on us. >> can i talk about the avocado toast in the room, though, guys? we've got millennials who are voting, they're coming in a huge block in a way they never have in the existence of their generation. they like diversity, they like women, they like -- they like

not feeling like expensive toast and they're kind of sick of old people. bernie sanders did make that argument. bernie has a lot of young people that love him, but i think joe biden might have a problem because young people are sick of the olds. >> democrats have a choice here, and they're at a crossroads. do you want the party of the past or do you want the party of diversity in the future and the election and primary will figure that out for us. >> to be continued here. scott bowlen joining me in new york, annette lopez and kurt cardero. kamala harris sits down for a special interview with joy reid in ohio. president trump faces a critical week ahead as he heads to hanoi for a meeting with kim jong-un. stay with us.

stay with us man 3: proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... woman 4: ...with humira. woman 5: humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. (avo): humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. woman 6: ask your rheumatologist about humira. woman 7: go to mypsaproof.com to see proof in action.

(clapping) every day, visionaries are creating the future.

( ♪ ) so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. ( ♪ ) the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and on-time. (ringing) ( ♪ ) the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it.

welcome back to "up." i'm david gura and we start this hour with president trump facing two trips this week, one in the states and one abroad. wednesday will be especially challenging for tv producers managing the split screens. on one side of your screen the focus will be on washington,

d.c. where trump's former lawyer is scheduled to testify before the congressional oversight committee, allowing democrats the chance to grill him about what he knows about a range of topics, including fundraising for the inauguration and donald trump's business practices. on the other side of the screen the focus will be on 286 milevi where trump has meetings scheduled with kim jong-un. split screen implies a screen cut in half, but we're going to see it fractured further this week. jared kushner is on a trip abroad to roll out his middle east peace plan. that six-country tour will include a meeting with mohammad bin salam in arabia. back in d.c., house dems set to vote on the emergency

declaration. that's on tuesday. and with robert mueller, we're keeping a close watch on the russia investigation. ellen mustall, editor for abovethelaw.com and critic at large for the "new york times." elliott, let me start with you. i laid out what the waterfront looks like this week. let's talk about that binary, what the president is facing as he goes on this trip. we saw this play out when he was in singapore before. how is this going to play out in terms of week through the course of the week? >> there's lot for news producers to talk about, for the country to process. i think that's part of what is unique to the trump era, there is almost too much going on at any one point in time for mer americans to step back and really download the information and think about it before we move on to something that's crazy.

this weekend you have both trump and pence out of the country. that is unique. it's something that doesn't happen very often. while pence is in venezuela, you'll have nancy pelosi, the top-ranked person in the country, basically, for maybe 24 hours. that is unique. but i think in terms of donald trump going to hanoi, i'm on air force one tomorrow. we still don't know what time the plane is leaving. they know what time the plane is leaving. so it's pretty -- it's moving pretty quickly here, but i think in terms of thinking about how trump is approaching the summit, yes, there is a lot going on back in d.c. the cohen hearing, he may want to give people something else to look at, a distraction. but i think what's really motivating him and the reason -- he didn't decide, hey, i want to do another summit knowing that michael cohen would be in the news the same day. he wants to do this because he wants the nobel prize. we talk about reverse engineering in this administration all the time. he wants something achievable

that he can celebrate that he might be celebrated for. that's why we're doing this. and in terms of what the deliverables are, that's anyone's guess because you talk to people within the administration, even the people who are leading and negotiating with north korea, and they're not sure where kim is at. i think -- the way i look at it is the president is going over there to try and persuade him, to try and tell kim jong-un, look, you've got a valuable parcel of real estate. that's what donald trump has been saying for weeks now. look where north korea is on the map. look what you could do with that. he's talking like a developer, but if something comes out of it, it may be because donald trump has convinced him or thinks he's convinced him that the economic incentive to denuclearization is worth it. >> wes, i want to ask you about this moment. >> by all means. >> how do you process what's happening here? you know, you're not following the minutia of politics day in

and day out, but this is a spectacle moment. you'll turn on the tv, there will be some tension between these two friends, and we see a congressional hearing where not everyone, but a lot of people, will be curious about what donald trump's former lawyer has to say. >> i think everyone wants to know what michael cohen has to say. first of all, the drama is interesting, right? you have this person that's very close to trump, now turned on trump, now saying he's going to spill all the beans or some of the beans -- i don't know what beans he's allowed to actually spill, right? >> refried beans. >> but we like refried beans, because refried beans are the best beans. yeah, i think everybody is interested in what cohen is going to have to say. i also think it's interesting that begging for the nobel prize is just, wow. nobody puts anything past this person, but, i mean, in the history of that award being

presented, has anybody ever sought it in this way. >> he made fun of the fact that obama got it and hadn't accomplished anything. it brings the question of why he's doing this. you look at politics right now, our interest in north korea right now. the president is saying that having the nuclear test is minimized. >> the thing that scares me most about this president since he's been elected is he views every single policy issue through the present of how it helps me. so north korea is in line with all of the domestic issues that he pushes forward to help himself or his own poll numbers and the supporters in his own base. north korea is a national security crisis. the fact that you have somebody going in so they can be personally awarded with a prize

for seeking foreign policy, it that's terrifying. when you go into a meeting of this type, you have no preparation pr and you have the multiple split screens stand it means that president trump is not going to get a lot of sleep, he'll go into these meetings, and it's terrifying to me. he could agree to something that could set america back. we don't know what goes on in these meetings because of the lack of transparency, particularly with the meetings of putin, not necessarily with him. >> it w >> it's going to be another one-on-one meeting with trump and -- >> right. we don't know about these one-on-one meetings with trump that's terrifying. >> let's go back to the refried beans. what are you going to be watching for? we now know based on the "new york times" that michael cohen has been back in new york meeting with prosecutors talking

about the trump organization, talking about the inauguration. as wes said a moment ago, there are limitations with what can be discussed during that hearing. how will this advance the story? >> i'm always watching robert mueller. to take it from 35,000 feet, this is the i stopped for a minute to stop sniffing glue. i think anybody who has had an alcoholic or abusive parent or spouse will really understand what's going to happen this week. first thing that's going to happen is he's going to go out of the skmous he'll embarrass us. then he's going to come home, he's going to be super angry and start screaming at somebody, probably cohen. then by friday, he's going to be crying. i can't believe this, it's so unfair, it never should have been allowed to happen. he's going to wake up on saturday and he'll go, what, what did i say? and he's going to go golf. this is the triggering kmok dad that is running the entire

country, and what do you do in that situation? you try desperately to hang on to something that is real. . and for me, that reality is the mueller report. cohen, as much as i'm interested in him kind of spilling beans and what have you, he's unlikely to say anything that i have not heard before. but bh you look at the fact that mueller just dropped 800 pages on paul manafo. it's going to be a deep substantive report and then we move to the question of whether barr releases that report. that mueller report is real. all this other stuff is show. >> frhow does he process what's

going on here 88,000 miles away? how does he keep track? >> i don't know what they've got over there, but i would expect they've thought about that, given that that is one of the president's needs when he travels. we know he went to paris in november and spent a lot of time in the hotel room watching american cable. so there you go. but i think in terms of vietnam and the summit and meeting with kim again as a show, i mean, certainly we saw the thee a the when he went with kim last year. donald trump was literally -- it was just for the shots, the imagery. here's the president of the united states with the leader of north korea, and that was impactful. the second time around, i don't know that those images will mean as much, so it's a matter of

what comes out of this. yes, a lot it have is theatrical and personal, especially in the moments when they're tnt having expanded talks with staff. does he agree to declare that the korean war is over? that is something that really helps kim. so what does the u.s. get out of it? you talk to people around the administration. you hear them on official background calls when they're talking, you can hear the concern in their voice. it's expressed even more explicitly when you talk to them sort of again off the record, and they're telling you, look, we don't know what he's going to do, we know what he prepared for, but when he gets in that room and he's going with his gut, you just don't know what the president may agree to. >> wesley morris, the images matter here. as eli is saying at that first summit we had those pictures. this is a departure from the family photos we've seen from the other international summits. last hour we were talking about

the video the white house prepared for that summit the first time around, what north korea could be. what do you make of just the veneer that's been placed around this, how the president shellacs himself when he goes abroad. >> he understands that we're watching him, but what does that invoke for an image that redeems him or dignifies him or makes this man a little calmer? he's not capable of -- i mean, he understands what he's doing, but i also think that he doesn't -- for as much as we've ascribed a kind of genius to him as a media figure, there is also kind of like -- he's not a media genius to me, he's a media savante. what you're talking about with

the fox news, the cable needing to be in the hotel rooms, i think he understands how the optics for these things are supposed to work to his benefit, but i think, first of all, we're talking about kim jong-un, who also as a better understanding. he is a showman in a totally different -- i don't know, much more camera ready way, i think, than trump. >> he's not a savante, he's a fraud. what we're about to get is the fire festival of vietnam. that's what this video is going to be continue. he understands what the camera does better than previous presidents, but we have to remember that it's all a rile. . reality tv is produced just like fictional television and

scripted television. it is not real. that's where donald trump has an illusion at that moment. >> you can call him an illusionist. this is a guy who the longer his presidency goes on, the harder it is to maintain some of these illusions. we saw it with the shutdown of the wall. there isn't a wall yet. he hasn't built a mile of new wall. maybe they're starting on a small stretch of it, but convincing his voters that it's been happening or is almost finished, that gets harder and hard harder. look at all these things he's achieved. but if there is nothing toward denuclearization which is the ultimate goal, it's hard to say he's making progress. why the latest filing

against the trump campaign chairman leaves us with more questions than answers. >> we don't know what mueller knows, but we do know he didn't put what he knows in this document. knows in this document on the best device, iphone. now get $300 off the latest iphone. ♪ with venus, you're in charge of how your skin feels. so, when the world expects you to follow the rules, write your own. ♪ because no one gets an opinion on how you live your life, why you shave, or how you show your skin. my skin. my way. ♪ when heartburn hits, fight back fast with tums smoothies. it neutralizes stomach acid at the source.

♪tum tum tum tum smoothies. also available tums sugar-free. into our subaru forester. we fit a lot of life (dad) it's good to be back. (mom) it sure is. (mom vo) over the years, we trusted it to carry and protect the things that were most important to us. we always knew we had a lot of life ahead of us. (mom) remember this? (mom vo) that's why we chose a car that we knew would be there for us through it all. (male vo) welcome to the all-new 2019 subaru forester. the longest-lasting, most trusted forester ever. but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients

come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. does your customers connecting to the wifi ever slow down your business? yes, it does slow things down. aggravating. it's a nightmare. so our gig-speed network is fast. and we go beyond fast by making it easy to create separate networks for your business and your customers and even control how much bandwidth each of those gets. so your business won't miss a beat. this is a big game changer. this is the new wave, and whoever doesn't get on, i think they would be left behind. just one more way we go beyond at&t.

right now get fast, reliable internet and add wifi pro for a low price. comcast business. beyond fast. welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. it is here, the 25-page sentencing memo with a document hundreds of pages in length charging the chairman of the

president with a variety of crimes. he was sentenced in virginia as well in two cases. manafort could spend the rest of his life in prison. but nothing in the unredacted portion we can see. in a brand new piece, the franklin ford describes manafort's silence saying manafort dealt regularly with senators and members of congress who welcomed him into their office, many knew what he was doing for a period of time. but it indicts the culture and business of washington. >> i have no other clients except donald trump to start with. >> what about your past clients? >> i don't have any more clients. >> do you have any conflicts, do you think, because of the people you represented in the past? >> no, i don't represent them anymore. >> joined by emily sussman at

the center for american independence. i assume you didn't read all 800 pages of this thing. i don't think anyone at the table did. but broadly speaking here, what's your reaction to the picture it paints of washington, d.c., this side of washington, d.c. and paul manafort's place in it. >> it seems like corruption is more the rule of the culture of the trump administration starting with the campaign rather than the exception. they've seen a countless number of officials from cabinet level. manafort was the chairman of the campaign. these are not just rumors, they are actually being indicted. they're going to jail. you have to wonder if there are people in the administration who feel like, still to this day, if they're not making money, they're not playing it right. it actually feels like this is largely the culture of it. and the american people are actually getting that more and more even in the last couple of months. it's not just people in the camps although that does still exist on either side. recent polling shows that 66% of

americans believes the mueller report has uncovered crimes, like actual crimes, and that's up 15 points from june when the question was first asked. a majority of americans have come to believe there are actual crimes here. that's clear, they are getting sentenced. >> another line from this piece by franklin ford, it's good. when i first started reporting on paul manafort three years ago, i kept looking for a redeeming flicker of humanity. reader, let me tell you, i searched hard to find that sliver of goodness and it eluded me. >> i don't know how he was a campaign chairman for free. that means there's more to the story that we need to learn. i remember being in the opposition meetings during the campaign when he hired paul manafort and us being like, is he really going to hire this guy who has all these really seemingly suspicious ties to russia? if we recall back to that

moment, when he joined the campaign, there was some reporting about his ties to russia, and when he left the campaign, it was because of reporting about his ties to russia linked ukranian oligarchs, right? all of this has been in the public domain, and for some reason we haven't been able to make that connection between the larger russia investigation and the fact that paul manafort was a bright, shiny object in our faces connected directly to russia that we didn't ask enough questions about. so i think it's both on us as citizens and as voters, but also on the media to properly vet these folks. because there is no reason why he should have been the campaign chairman of a presidential campaign without many of these questions being answered, because clearly he was committing crimes for decades. it's not like he just started committing crimes when he first joined donald trump -- >> and had no clients. >> correct. he's also a really, really bad liar. every single interview we watch from the moment he joined the

campaign, in the norah o'donnell interview, for example, he was stuttering. it is so obvious there was more to the story and finally we're getting to that. >> ellie, people are wondering why weren't cases brought sooner? help us understand that. why isn't this something the justice department wouldn't have warned him about, take interest in but not action on? >> this is one of his defenses, right? one of his defenses is that people do this all the time, they don't get caught for it, they don't get prosecuted for it, they don't end up in jail for it. they get a fine, a slap on the wrist -- >> and that's kind of an achievement. >> and he's not wrong, right? this is the problem with the culture he's been a part of. he's bakely nick cage from "mortimer." he's had an international career

of helping prop up dictatorships, right? you don't remember the movie. if you remember the movie -- >> i remember. >> at the end of that movie, ethanhawkeis like, you're going to jail. nick cage says, no, i'm not. nick walks out scot-free. manafort thinks he's going to walk out of jail scot-free, because the system he's been ramping up all these years, including donald trump, will let him go free, right? that's still one possibility. i think the other possibility is he's willing to take on the wait. he's just going to take all the weight for all the stuff he's did and he's never going to implement trump. when i read that 125-page memo and not the 175-page attachments, there are so many opportunities for manafort to have flipped and made himself a good deal, and he has refused to

do so. he seems to be willing to take all this weight or he's hoping for that pardon. >> i'm going to go with the pardon. that's where i'm going to put my money. >> we saw in "the times" yesterday about these meetings michael cohen has been having and paul manafort, they keep charging him in new york as well. the secretary of state is threatening direct action as. this could all be a pretext for military intervention, something the president has not ruled out for how to end the crisis in venezuela. >> i have a, b, c, d and f. i have great flexibility. i probably have more flexibility than any man who has been in this office. this office.

welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. the crisis with venezuela is growing. they're trying to get food and medical supplies into the

country. yesterday that effort turned deadly. a democrat on the foreign affairs committee has suggested what we've seen may be a pretext for war. christ murphy writing this on twitter. democrats need to be careful about a potential trap being set by trump et al in venezuela. cheering humanitarian convoys sounds like the right thing to do, but what if it's not about the aid? what if the real agenda is laying a pretext for war? we have not seen a large number of maduro backers shift their support. eli, let me start with you. you've been following all of this. help us understand how this has percolated because we're at a point where there is more tension on this. you look at the scene there. it's bad. you see the crisis in those images, you hear about the death and the injuries as well. at the same time, one is left to wonder what happens next? what's that plan? before the break we saw trump

say he's got plans a, b, c, d, and e. does he have a plan? >> i think in totality you can say the trump administration is pursuing regime change in venezuela. the question is how do they go about it, and why? why this country, why this dictator? in the conversations i've had with people around the national security council, they say, we don't want armed conflict, we don't want to have to send in troops. we are trying to put increasing pressure on maduro, trying to rally the international community. this is one of those issues, a rare issue on foreign policy where the administration believes it has a broad global consensus behind it. they think the countries in europe are supportive -- >> or any plus countries. >> -- and they believe in the u.s. there is broad popular support against maduro. they think it plays well in

miami and florida looking towards 2020. but he does not show to people at a press conference, 500 troops to venezuela on accident. i think they want that threat to be out there, and i think it's reasonable at this point for people in congress to be asking, how likely is that and is that something we really want to do? because if you start applauding the administration's first and second steps, how do you explain it? >> secretary of state mike pompeo was just interviewed at fox news on sunday. let's hear what he has to say. >> the venezuelan people are speaking loudly and clearly. they understand that juan guaido is the leader of their country. this sick maduro is denying food to hungry venezuelans, denying

medicine to sick venezuelans. >> i can't deny the reference we've heard about the border wall, about that emergency. things have been bad in venezuela for a long time as well. >> if they happen to try to cross the rio grande -- no, no. i applaud christ murphy because he is doing something no democrat had the stones to do leading up to iraq. obviously denying aid is a war crime, like how dare he? when maduro says he is denying aid because it might be a plot or ploy by the u.s., who doesn't believe him? this is the problem of losing our credibility around the world. donald trump treats our credibility like it's bitcoin, all right? when he loses the trust, how can i possibly trust that anything we're doing outside our open borders is on the up and up when anything we do inside our own country is not on the up and up. this is the danger of having a president you can't trust, and

christ murphy is absolutely right in pumping the brakes here and trying to assess the situation in a rightful manner. we can't trust our government is doing the right thing. >> to bring up the point eli brought up a moment ago, the trump administration thinks it will have american support. do we see that domestically? yes. miami is one thing, florida is another thing. does this have broad-based appeal, us getting more and more and more involved in venezuela? >> i'm with you, like, why this one? first of all, trump hasn't met a foreign dictator he doesn't like, so why this one? it feels like the bad pr they've been getting, rightfully so, the way they've treated the border, the conversation around asylum seekers coming in. it feels like this is the war he's been wanting. we've been saying this from day one of his election. it's a way that he thinks makes

him a more popular president. it's like the wag of the dog. he's trying to become that president, the war president. he thinks it gives him more power going into an election. let's not forget the fact we can't even keep a stable military or leadership in national security council. we don't currently have a secretary of defense. he resigned because of the chaos and support of authoritarian regimes. doesn't feel like a great setup. >> i want to get your perspective on where things go from here, and it's like old home week. you bring up john bolton who scratched the stuff on his yellow legal pad as well. it's not hard to look at the tea leaves when you look at the personnel engineering all of this. >> it's terrifying. especially when you know recent and current history in terms of the iran contra affair and john bolton getting us into iraq. for people who live on either of those things, you're on high alert right now. you have a president who doesn't understand or care to learn any

of the underlying policy questions or details, right, so he's making a decision about this without even understanding the underlying details. that's terrifying. but on the other hand, you have a public who is not necessarily immersed in all of these details, either, because this is a newer story in the public consciousness, this is a newer story that is making headlines, and so we're just like, what? troops in venezuela? if you were to ask somebody on the street if this is a question the president is considering, they would be like, wait, what? we're going to war with -- what? i think the american public needs to be educated on exactly what's going on there. but also the history of the american involvement and interference in latin america to really get a full understanding of the dangers and the precarious position we're in right now. because the president doesn't care about the details, and when we're talking about military conflict, you have to understand those things. we'll come back in just a moment. we're less than a year away from the democratic caucuses and

they're hitting the pavement today. kamala harris had an interview today. coming up with that next. that t and boom - your money's on the way so you can get back on the road fast. well, not that fast. the editor had to make it fit in 30 seconds. it's pretty tricky actually trying to ... and ... tagline. when insurance is simple, it's surprisingly painless.

when insurance is simple, ♪ ♪ your grace. your majesty. your king. a legacy of leaders, speeders and serpent feeders. the alfa romeo giulia, stelvio and c37. (nat♪re sounds)

corey is living with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of her body. she's also taking prescription ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women with hormone receptor-positive her2- metastatic breast cancer as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole was significantly more effective at delaying disease progression versus letrozole. patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection, liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. common side effects include low red blood cell and low platelet counts, infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, abnormalities in liver blood tests, diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite. corey calls it her new normal because a lot has changed, but a lot hasn't. ask your doctor about ibrance. the #1 prescribed fda-approved

oral combination treatment for hr+/her2- mbc. it's kind of awkward to say on president's day we're going to be suing the president of the united states, but sometimes that's what you have to do. >> that was pointing out the irony of suing the president on

president's day. california leads 16 states in a lawsuit over the president's national declaration is the latest. the state has filed 45 lawsuits in a wide range. trump has threatened to cancel california's $929 million project. kamala harris writes, the state has the fifth largest economy so prerogative policies are working. harris' strategy to win the nomination relies on her state. she will hold a rally on super tuesday. if senator harris comes out on top there, it could mount a fatal blow to her rivals. let me start with eli first. native son of california. what do you make of this dynamic that's shaping up here?

california as the thing the president likes to hate, the 93rd court of appeals. >> it's water policy, thrown out a bunch of erroneous information about that. he likes this sort of contrast. and i think you'll see more of it, especially if kamala harris does well going through the primaries. you'll see the president try to set this up as, do we want the whole country to become california? kamala harris, as you saw in the tweet, she'll say, well, our uninsured rate is down, minimum wage is up, unemployment is down, the state budget is healthy again. she'll make that argument but the president thinks to voters in key swing states, that might sound a little scary. he likes the contrast. he also, in terms of why he picks on california, why he doesn't travel to california, he knows california is never going to vote for him. he goes to the places where he's popular and he writes off the places where he has no shot politically.

during the shutdown, he said, these federal workers, most of them are democrats. why do i care if we shut down the government? it's sort of the approach to the golden state as to why he's going to pick these fights. >> you talk about kamala harris as the defender of the united states. let's watch a clip of that where she talks about her identity in this race as a candidate for the democratic nomination. >> how does a black woman win the presidency in a country where the trend is toward more racial polarization? >> how does one deal with it and how specifically do i deal with it? head on. head on. and as far as i'm concerned, in my heart, in my soul, in my mind, in my brain, no, that anybody who loves our country rejects any form of hate. >> i want you to react to that, that distinction that she draws.

how does one react to it, how do i react to it? what do you make of the response she had to that question? >> i can't speak for her, but if i were going to react to it personally, i think it's terrifying for black women to see a black woman running for president knowing the realities about how america feels about black people and women. so if you combine those two things together, you can, you know, guess just how much america does not like black women. but i think that, you know, for her specifically, she is running on her record. she is also running on the fact that she has a sister who has policy chops who can give her the specifics, maya harris, from the northern area of california has her background. so she has the policy chops to fill out the details in the plane from which she's running on. on the one hand, i'm terrified as a black woman because i think that we don't want to be

reminded just how much mysogeny and racism are part of everyday life, but on the other hand, kamala harris is tough enough to deal with it. i'm terrified but i'm also excited that she came straight out of the gate. she's clearly not afraid of donald trump. at this point none of us should be afraid of donald trump specifically. i'm afraid of what he will do. but i think he's shown himself to be a fraud in a lot of different ways and he puts on a persona that is easily pierced. so i think kamala harris coming out the gate demanding that he told the truth, right, and saying that she's going to run a campaign on facts and the truth, i think that's a clear contrast with donald trump. but the reason he doesn't like california is because that was the popular rote margin for hillary clinton. he doesn't like california because it's a reminder he didn't win much votes in 2016. for us to say she didn't go to chicago and that's why she didn't win votes.

every single reason why you can guess hillary clinton did not win the electoral college is correct. i think donald trump is reminded he didn't win the popular vote every time you mention california. that's why he doesn't like it. >> i want to ask you about the way we're seeing identity used regarded in this campaign so far. there was the answer to that question there. how is it different this time versus the last elections, as you see it? >> you have more women that are going to be running for president. kamala harris is a black woman, a biracial black woman, to be clear. her mother is indian. and i just feel like it will be interesting to see -- i mean, the exact thing you're afraid of being revealed about how we will treat a black woman running for office, like for president. but i don't know, i feel like we

also had eight years of michelle obama sort of taking a lot of umbrage from people in actual racism and sexism. it's obviously different because the thing that made michelle obama so popular is she never had to really run for anything, right? this is going to be different because kamala harris is also a person who has to do more than represent, she has to argue on behalf of positions he's already taken, things he's already done as attorney general. i don't know, i feel like -- it's kind of up to her how she chooses to frachl -- i also think there are a lot of things that won't be up to her and she'll have to do a lot of reacting to, same thing obama did in 2008. and that's going to be really interesting because you have this intersection of her race and her gender. and her record. >> how true is that of her and

other candidates? >> absolutely. i think the way we've evolved in understanding candidates even in the last two years is the biggest knock. the most repeated knock we heard about hillary clinton was, oh, she expects votes because she's a woman, and there was no way we could interpret how that affected the policy. i think we've seen that in every one of our rollouts. look at the cory book errer rol. he says this is how it's formed my life and how it's formed my policy. black candidates will come in particularly in the united states and south carolina. people don't want to be spoken to every four years just to get

votes. they're going to have to see something like it. but the way their message will spread through the community is what kind of track record they have already and how their identity has informed their decisions. >> i feel like the most interesting things she's done so far as a candidate -- it's been about 10 minutes -- but her weed answer seemed real t. seems to be the truth, obviously, and they are gender tests for what opposition means to voters. hillary clinton was sort of in the unfortunate position of not being able to pass any of what i would say were gender tests about relateability. she kept flunking them and the only time she seemed to be able

to pass one is when she had that stress breakdown in 2008. that would be the first time as a presidential candidate she demonstrated that relateability factor. i don't know, i think kamala harris is going to figure out -- i think she's -- this is a good time for her how she can talk to the most different kinds of people without seeming fake to one group and authentic to everybody. >> keep in mind the accusation that she's pandering will be there no matter what she does. we saw it with hillary clinton. >> because she's a woman? or just as a politician? >> as a politician, but i think particularly right now the narrative is easy to fall into. people are looking for it. oh, you're pandering to black people. how do you pander to black people if you are a black person? one of the most frustrating things for me as somebody who was on hillary's staff is the fact that some of the moments i thought were authentic and her being herself were seen as pandering. for example, when she was on the

breakfast club where kamala talked about smoking weed in the past hillary clinton was asked what she has in her purse all the time. she said hot sauce which was a true answer. i know for a fact when she was asked she actually had a physical bottle of hot sauce in her bag. it was a true and authentic answer. but it was seen as pandering not just because charlemagne said in the moment people will think you're pandering. she said, well, is it working? that's her sense of humor similar to mine. i thought it was funny, but america didn't see it as a hillary moment. they saw it as pandering when, in fact, it was the opposite. this stuff can be tricky. it's up to us as voters to see the candidates for who they are. hillary was telling the truth. she likes hot sauce. >> i have been frustrated by the knock on elizabeth warren. >> let's get back to it in a moment. t in a moment

when heartburn hits, fight back fast with tums smoothies. it neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪tum tum tum tum smoothies. also available tums sugar-free. minimums and fees seem to your typical bank.n of capital one is anything but typical. that's why we designed savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums. this is banking reimagined. what's in your wallet? but how do i know if i'm i'm getting a good deal? i tell truecar my zip and which car i want and truecar shows the range of prices people in my area actually paid for the same car so i know if i'm getting a great price. this is how car buying was always meant to be. this is truecar.

so, i started with the stats regarding my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. like how humira has been prescribed to over 300,000 patients. and how many patients saw clear or almost clear skin in just 4 months - the kind of clearance that can last. humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. numbers are great. and seeing clearer skin is pretty awesome, too. that's what i call a body of proof. humira can lower your ability to fight infections.

serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. want more proof? ask your dermatologist about humira. this is my body of proof. welcome back. you wanted to talk about elizabeth warren as well. >> a lot has been made of how awkward her instagram live with her husband and the beer. the th that goes to gender bias. what if she is just sort of an

awkward nerd. >> what if? >> exactly. >> that's kind of a repeal, right? >> she's kind of running in that lane and leaning in to it. when we talk about it in the context of candidates' use of social media it's like, oh, well, it feels awkward. she's too old. she can't do it. so candidates need to find the thing that leans in to what feels authentic for him. it's on their staff to set it up correctly. she's a weird, awkward nerd and that's her lane. >> thank you for joining me. coming up, as i said, joy reid with an exclusive interview with senator kamala harris on msnbc. c so, we re-imagined the razor with the new gillette skinguard. it has a unique guard between the blades. that's designed to reduce irritation during the shave.

because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. the best a man can get. gillette. p3 it's meat, cheese and nuts. i keep my protein interesting. oh yea, me too. i have cheese and uh these herbs. p3 snacks. the more interesting way to get your protein.

check in from afar with remote access, ♪ and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store. call, or go online today. that does it for me today. thank you very much for watching. "a.m. joy" with joy reid starts now. >> paul manafort was with me for a short period of time. he did a good job. i was happy with the job he did. >> paul manafort is a nice guy. he worked for me for a very short period of time. literally. like, what, a couple of months? a little period of time. >> are you considering pardoning paul manafort? >> i have great respect for what he's done in terms of what he's gone through. >> i have not offered any pardons. i think they asked or whatever, would you. i said, i'm not