have access. that's all i'm going to say. i don't get these people. >> stalin wants to take away your hamburgers. i guess hitler wanted to take away your pastrami. that's actually what world war ii was about. i mean, killing 30 million of his own people, that was secondary, keeping tasty burgers out of the hands of the gulags. >> and good morning and welcome. it is friday. welcome to "morning joe." long week, march 1st. with us we have associate editor of commentary magazine, author of "unjust" noah rothman. republican strategy and political analyst susan del percio is with us. former treasury official and morning joe economic nsd and anchor for bbc news america

katty kay and national security reporter ken dilanian. >> we got ken? >> yeah. >> how did we fare so well? >> okay, you're punchy. it's friday. >> no, i'm still focused on seth good morni gorkin. i was a right wing cold warrior for a very long time. that's why dr. brzezinski and i got along very well. i know it would be a shock to dr. brzezinski, though, were he still with us, god rest his soul, to find out he spent hissin tihis entire life trying to defeat stalinist russia when he thought it was about tierney when in fact we learned that it was about hamburgers. when is your speaking lot at

cpac? >> mine i think got lost in the mail sadly. but i would attend if i was offered. i would probably explain that the quota system in the old soviet union was about production and less about destroying your capacity to intake protein. >> the stupidity, though, that's being exhibited right now is breathtaking. it's just breathtaking. >> well, he is playing off a foil that is a very convenient one for republicans in the form of alexandria ocasio-cortez, who is voicing opinions that agricultural production, particularly in the form of beef and milk and cattle -- >> noah, noah, noah, it's a stretch. >> it's not a stretch. it was in the fact that they said was doctored and leaked and accidentally handed to npr.

>> they're not taking our hamburgers. >> they're telling you to reduce the amount of beef that you eat. >> well, there is nothing wrong with that. >> i actually think that sounds like good advice, noah. >> we were just talking about that last night, that i need to stop eating four steaks a night and i think she may be right. >> it's a little unhealthy. >> let's get to trying to sum up this week and what happened at home and abroad and some of the things that happened in between that are just staggering at this point. so there are some disagreements between the trump administration and north korea's kim regime for why the hanoi summit ended in failure. >> basically they wanted the sanctions lifted in their entirety and we couldn't do that. they were willing to denuke a large portion of the areas that we wanted but we couldn't give up all of the sanctions for that. but it was about sanctions.

i mean they wanted singanctions lifted but they weren't willing to give us the areas we wanted. >> while president trump was aboard air force i heading home, north korean officials called a rare news conference where they offered their own view of what went wrong. according to north korea's foreign minister, they proposed a, quote, partial removal of sanctions, not in full, in exchange for the permanent and complete dismantlement of the yongbyon nuclear facility and long range rocket tests. the foreign minister adds that, quote, the u.s. insisted we should take one more step and was not ready to accept our proposal, adding it is difficult to say whether there might be a better agreement than this one, end quote, our professional posal will never be changed even though u.s. proposes

negotiations given in the future. white house press secretary sarah sanders says that president trump, quote, is aware of north korea's disagreements and would not comment further. so there was that discrepancy. but stateside, the big issue was one of the more controversial statements that president trump made during his post-summit news conference regarding the death of college student otto warmbier, who died days after returning to the u.s. in a knorr vegetative state after being imprisoned by north korea. yesterday's news conference occurred on the third anniversary of otto warmbier's blackplea while in north korean custody. >> i entirely beg you people in government of north korea for your forgiveness. please! i have made the worst mistake of my life but, please, act to save

me. please. think of my family. >> i did speak about it and i don't believe that he would have allowed that to happen. it just wasn't to his advantage to allow that to happen. those prisons are rough. they're rough places and bad things happened, but i really don't believe that he was -- i don't believe he knew about it. he knew the case very well, but he knew it later. but he tells me -- he tells me that he didn't know about it and i will take him at his word. >> it's an example of the ruthless nature of this regime. we shouldn't be naive about this regime and about the way they mistreat their own people and certainly the way they mistreated otto warmbier. the mistreatment of otto warmbier is unforgivable. >> otto warmbier, they made a spectacle out of him before the

world, accusing him of being a spy. the blood of otto warmbier is in the hands of kim jong un. he knew about, it he directed it and the responsibility lies directly with kim jong un. >> that poor boy begging for himself life and being brutalized and beaten and killed by kim jong un. kim jong un was a murderer. nothing happens in that country that he doesn't order. he is a tyrant of the first order. and there is no way anybody would lay a hand on an american -- on an american in north korea unless kim jong un wasn't delivering the direct orders. and kim jong un had him beaten to death, beaten to death, put in a vegetative state to come home and die in front of his parents and this week donald trump once again embraced

tyranny and once again basically it was -- it's always every day is donald trump's own personal munich. i mean, he appeased yet another dictator, this time for the brutalizing death of an american college boy. >> he cozied up to north korea's dictator while his son-in-law cozied up to saudi arabia and mbs. america's former ambassador to the u.n. naikki haley also weighed in, "americans know the cruelty that was placed on otto warmbier by the north korean regime -- >> hold on, also known as kim jong un. >> exactly. >> she says our hearts are with the warmbier family, we will never forget otto.

>> it's hardly the first time he's put his faith in tyrants. >> and some really bad thanksgiving happened to otto, some really, really bad things but he tells me that he didn't know about it and i will take him at his word. i have great confidence in my intelligence people, but i will tell you that president putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. >> i spoke with the king, i spoke with the crown prince yesterday and he strongly said that he had nothing to do with this, this was at a lower level. >> just this week jared kushner sat down with mbs in their first known meeting since the saudi government's murder of journalist jamal khashoggi. they talked about how the saudis wooed kushner with mohammed bin

salman. they said given his experience, which is zero, could make him susceptible to manipulation. and they discussed the possibility of setting up a secret and secure communication channel between trump's tra transition team and the cremkre. and the "new york times" reported they were working overseas to solicit money for projects in the united states by highlighting their ties to kushner. >> enough of that. . we know about kushner and what he's done. he got his money, of course, from qatar, so they ended up getting what they wanted. he was just shopping around,

like his father-in-law just shopping around for money after they're out of the white house. katty kay, it seems that again donald trump has not -- just hasn't met a tyrant he doesn't love, he doesn't respect, he doesn't believe over american intel officials. i mean, again we showed the clips of individuvladimir putine believes his kgb guy over the intel community. stupid me, i grew up a republican and conservative and i found this ronald reagan quote. to this day america is still the abiding alternative to tyranny. this is our purpose in the world, nothing more and nothing less. for reagan, for conservatives during the cold war. certainly for us republicans

while i was growing up. our organizes principle was small government and standing up to tyrannical religigimes acrose globe. donald trump has completely turned that on its head. >> yeah, and supporting democracy and supporting human rights. this is a very far cry from even president bush's second inaugural address where he promised to help the down trod i don't know -- trodden around the world and there was no question of horrific acts during that sum the and it was symbolized by the otto warmbier comment the p president made. if the president is prepared to take kim jong un on his word on this when there is so much intel that kim jong un must have known about it, must have ordered it, how could kim jong un not know about that? it not possible he didn't know

about it. if he's prepared, the president, to give kim jong un the benefit of the doubt on something like that, what else is he prepared to give these people the benefit of the doubt on? what else is he prepared to give away of america's interest in this quest of what he calls his fantastic relationship diplomacy. i've spoken to jared kushner about this. they believe in this notion that president trump can change the facts of the world just by his personality, just by who he is, just by these relationships he has with people. i think what happened in hanoi particularly symbolized by those otto warmbier comments is an awareness that just doesn't work. there are real limits to relationship diplomacy. donald trump is not able just because of who he is to fix the intractable problems of the world. >> and susan del percio, you, too, another republican. certainly the past, i don't know about now, but we grew up

believing that the united states as reagan said was a city shining brightly on the hill for all the world to see, that we were the example to the world when it came it freedom, or organizing principle was freedom, we stood up against tyrants, we learned our lesson at munich. yet if you'rer loved one the ben to death in north korea, this president will not stand up to a tyrant. if you no someone assassinated in russia, a political opponent or someone that crossed vladimir putin's path, you know president trump will take the word of vladimir putin offer hver his o intel community. a "washington post" journalist is killed, carved up with a bone saw while he is still alive, donald trump says he believes the murderer and then his

son-in-law goes over there to continue their dear, close relationship. this is not the republican party of our youth. hell, it's not the america that we grew up in where you have a president, a commander in chief that embraces tyrants and has utter contempt for our nato allies and people who were elected democratically. >> that's right, joe. and the president is -- one thing he does is he acts out of his own self-interests. he did not go to hanoi representing the united states of america. he went there representing himself. he thinks that he can do these deals one on one. the one thing that has just been nagging at me since we heard his comments about otto warmbier is did he ever think for a moment about his parents? he took his parents and showed them around and he used it to his own self-interest and he was out there basically telling his -- otto's parents saying

your suffering, it wasn't at the hands of north korea's leader. we put faith -- i trust him. i just can't imagine how they must feel this morning and yesterday hearing those comments because this is a president with no humanity, with no empathy and no decency. that's how he crafts his policies, that's how he can go and send jared on his mission to saudi arabia, that's how he can continue to look people in the eye and say he's out there trying to help make america great again. he is not trying to do anything of the sort. he is trying to make himself matter and relevant and he does it and makes this country suffer, unfortunately not just for the days to come, for the weeks to come but for the years to come. >> again, they're oldies but goldies, meekia but for republicans who no longer support freedom and actually

support a president who embraces tyrants, the united states remains the last best hope for m mankind plagued by tyranny. the united states will leave other tyrannies that stifle freedom and muzzle the voice of the people. that's kim jong un, the mbs, that's everybody that donald trump embraces worldwide. >> you have to wonder why. i think we can make a simple assumption that people in the white house are trying their best and that they're telling him these things, they're informing him, they're educating him and yet he still does it. you have to wonder why. so keep in mind the background issues surrounding jared kushner and i think this is related that we just reported when listening

to this next story. "the washington post" has confirmed a "new york times" report that some of the highest ranking trump white house appointees put their concerns in writing after president trump ordered his chief of staff to grant son-in-law and senior adviser jared kushner a top secret security clearance, overruling intelligence officials and white house counsel. after domestic abuse allegations against then staff secretary rob porter revealed that scores of officials lacked permanent security clearances, then chief of staff john kelly ordered a review in february of 2018 downgrading kushner's clearance and limiting his access to information. and it was recommended to trump that kushner not be given a clearance at top secret level. but the next day trump ordered .

four people briefed on the matter told this to the "new york times." "trump's decision so troubled senior administration officials that kelly wrote an internal memo about how he had been ordered to give kushner the clearance, mcgahn also wrote an internal memo outlining the concerns that had been raised about kushner, including by the c.i.a. be c.i.a." >> i don't think i have the authority to do that. i'm not sure i do. but i wouldn't do it.

jared's a good -- i was never involved with his security. i know that he -- just from reading, i know that there was issues back and forth about security for numerous people actually, but i don't want to get involved in that stuff. >> the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> so no special treatment? >> no. >> i mean, ken dilanian, it's so funny watching the republicans on capitol hill act so shocked and stunned and so deeply saddened that michael cohen told a couple of lies. again, the president lies every day, lies repeatedly every day, lies about north korean dictators killing an american college student. he's reckless abroad and he's reckless at home. this is a really serious process

and the recklessness and the lying by ivanka and donald trump show once given they are just extraordinarily reckless people in charge of some of the most sensitive secrets in the united states government. >> about a month abe nbc news reported that two security officials inside the white house took a look at his clearance and recommended denying it. "the washington post" reported that u.s. intelligence picked up information that four countries thought that they could influence jared kushner through financial or other considerations. those were intelligence reports. so all this information was in the hands of these people and they said, no, he can't have a top secret clearance. they were overruled by their supervisor. what the post and "times" are reporting today is that the reason he overruled these people

and but they memorialized it because they were deeply concerned about it. president trump had the slul absolute legal right to do this. but instead of just onning it and announcing he was going to overdue the testimony, he lied about it and his daughter lied about it. and there is a real public policy concern here. even though he had a right to do it, career people have decided that jared kushner did not merit the trust to see the nation's secrets and donald trump decided otherwise and now he's got them. here's an important qualifier, though. the cia never granted jared kushner, our reporting shows and the "post" says this as well, never granded him that s.c.i.

designation, which is the richest and best intelligence that top officials review. he doesn't have that, unless the president is handing it to him despite his lack of a clearance. >> which of course, steve rattner, as reckless as these people have been in the white house the past two, two and a half years, who knows if he's doing that again. i'm stub again by hearing republicans acting so shocked that somebody in front of them had told some lies that while they worship at the feet of a man who lies repeatedly and gets caught in these lies every day. "i was never involved in jared's security." "i don't like to get involved in things like that." and ivanka lying saying he was never involved in jared's security clearance or mine. again, just flat out lies. >> usually if you want to tell a

lie, you find a way to slightly nuance it. when you listen to the interview with maggie haberman, it was flat out -- i'd like to come back to something you mentioned. i've been watching in and i have my doubts as a businessman as to exactly what jared's agenda here is. jared seems to be spending a lot of time in countries and people that is a lot of money. in saudi arabia, in qatar and and i sometimes wonder if jared is thinking as much as jared and the kushner familiar think and their next life and how they're going to finance their next life and using this in a way as a form of crony capitalism, a florm with which he'll build a bunch of relaugsships with wealthy sovereigns all over the world that he's going to take advantage of in his next life.

>> that's a great point because mika and i had grave concerns during the transition and we expressed those concerns. actually, i expressed them to skra jared and to others that he needed to decide whether he was going to work inside the white house or he was going to raise money for 666. you couldn't do both, i told him, stupid me, little diknow he was going to do both. his father's doing both. and we've talked about this a lot over the past two and a half years. if you don't understand donald trump's foreign policy, then follow the money. >> yup. >> and, no, not the political money. follow the personal money. russia, that's all about donald trump and the bottom line. his sons, eric and fredo said --

i think it was fredo said -- >> you mean don jr. >> okay, don jr., same thing, got the majority of their money from the russians. and donald trump bragged himself about how the saudis love to throw millions and millions of dollars. he thought this might have spent $150 million on trump toys. mika, americans, people who support trump, people who do not support trump need to understand america's foreign policy used to be based on the ideas that just i found after three seconds of searching on the google machine today, it's really extraordinary and that was again promoting freedom across the globe and standing up to tyrannies. >> right. >> now it is all about donald trump's bottom line. and mark the date, circle the

date, save this tape, you will see tr see, trump supporters, that he was playing you for a fool all along. it's all about his money. it's not about your freedom. >> this is an important conversation we need to note, jared's obsession about giuliani and michael flynn and where they stand. and kim jong un isn't the only area where republicans are breaking with the president. at least some of them are siding with the constitution over his contrived border wall declaration. first let's go to bill karins with check onle the forecast. the old saying, coming in like a lion. >> a lot of mini storms jove night. you can see the picture down

here, snow on top the building. lows havibility. careful driving from washington, d.c. up to southern new england today. we have three storms in four days, especially in areas connecticut to rhode island and providence. this is just from tonight into tomorrow morning. when you wake up, this purple is four inches of snow, six is the pink and eight is the totals. one of the biggest storms of the season for rhode island and massachusetts. and then on saturday, the storm starts in california, coast to coast. california does not need this. they're going to get another huge storm. by sunday morning it, races across the plains, heavy rain throughout the south, you don't need that. you still have many rivers flooding and snow in the afternoon, the ohio valley, arrives in the northeast on sunday night. still some questions how much snow, if any, new york city,

d.c. and baltimore on if you have travel plans and be prepared for wind, snow and rain. it will all depend on the exact storm track just three days away. march has arrived, more like a lion than anything else, about an inch of snow on the ground. you're watching "morning joe." we be right back. ♪ domino, sing it g it ♪

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them in. >> people in the family, ivanka trump, donald trump jr. >> he filled elijah cummings dance card for the coming months. >> and the house committee announced allen weisselberg will come before their committee. he was given limited immunity to come in and testify about this hush money scandal, but he is not cooperating. at least he doesn't have a cooperation agreement. he may be resisting and he may take the fifth amendment when he comes to congress. >> so what does that man? do you kn -- mean? do you know the outlines of that

limited agreement and could he still be charged by the southern district of new york? >> absolutely. our understanding is it was limited immunity only for testifying about his role in those payments. otherwise he could have taken the fifth amendment and refused to talk. but this doesn't appear everything that he said could be fraud law enforcement and the charity fraud and the potential tax fraud. there is so much that cohen has raised. i think the theme of that hearing was that the southern district of new york, at least two investigations that we know of, presents potentially a greater threat to donald trump and his family than the robert mueller investigation. don't take my word for it,s that what trump supporters chris christie has been saying. i heard him say on television last night, and this floored me, that he believes the southern district is preparing a case to

indict donald trump after he leaves office. he said he knows some of these fbi people and they are killers. he said it would give them chills to hear someone like someone like trump. >> noah, it reminds me of what jonathan turley told us, my gosh, six months ago, nine months ago, whenever it was first roared that the southern district of new york was involved. he said you know what, if i were donald trump and the lawyers right now, i wouldn't worry about robert mueller, i wouldn't worry about russian collusion, i would worry about the southern district of new york and here we are in 2019 and it certainly does look like the mueller report could be released almost

as a formality and we'll learn what we learn from that but regardless of that, the southern district of new york has money trails to follow for a very long time to come. >> and democrats on congress are going to have to balance the extent to which they're going to watch to do oversight hearings, which is very damaging. donald trump wanted a split screen moment on wednesday. he didn't get it. prosecutors can intervene and complicate that prosecution. they might want to balance that. going back to jared kushner and ivanka trump, it would be malpractice not to haul these people before an oversight committee and ask what exactly do you do in this respiration with your sprawling opaque portfolios and did you lie here? and he can also and that would

do serious political damage but it might interfere with has to pruces. if elijah couple many of these people before his kmmt, he would be committing malpractice over an organization that supposed to have primary oversight over the president. >> and this is always push and pull. in iran-contra, when they give immunity to people like oliver north, it back fired. my information says in the closed door hearing yesterday, which is continuing, there were some issues that were off the table because they're of interest to the southern district of new york. >> ken dilanian, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead, we'll talk to one

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joining us now, a member of the house armed services and budget committees, democratic congressman seth moulton of massachusetts. it's great to have you on. >> thank you so much for being with us. why don't we start with news of the day. north korea, the president and his new best friend, his best buddy, kim jong un, are right now at loggerheads but still

trying to work towards a deal. what's your take on the north korea summit? >> first of all, what we should be doing in north korea is putting enough pressure on them to legitimately give up their nuclear weapons program and doing that by strengthening our allies in the region. we should be talking about a specific nato, to contain china and put pressure on north korea. but the president is doing the exact opposite. he's just cozying up to martin luther king in the first point. i served at first untd general james mattis. that's the policy we should have. trump is doing the opposite. he's becoming best friends with our enemies and leaving our allies out to dry. >> we're going to get news this morning about more democrats possibly jumping into the race to run for president. your name has been mentioned. are you considering running in

2020? >> i am. i'm seriously looking at it. the first time that i really felt betrayed, abandoned by washington, really saw the consequences is when i was in iraq. as i've trfd the country, helpings they mazing people people, our economy is changing faster than it ever changed before. people are losing their jobs, not to immigrants but to robots. they're being automated out of existence and washington isn't doing anything to help. i don't think washington even understand these challenges. so we can do this, we wee can federal government this but it going to take someone who cannot own beat donald trump but with can and i thought the best way could i serve the country in

2002 was to join the marines. the best way i could serve in 2014 was to run for congress and i'll make the decision whether this is the best way i can serve the country in do do. and you were concerned about in eye three months in, what grade would you give her as speaker? >> i think she's doing a great job in standing up to trump. i think she's been fantastic about we really won the shutdown fight and we're holding the administration accountable as you saw this week on saint. but i'm going to continue fighting to make sure this in generation of leaders, including the freshman class with term limits for the top three positions in who and it a good

thing for our caucus and ultimately a good thing for our country. >> steve rattner, obviously you have concerns about the future of the democratic party and what direction it is going in now. >> yeah. i think that's a fair question, seth. it feels like this primary season is as much a referendum for what the democratic stands for as much ambassador who we want to have be our nominee. you have people spread across the ideological spectator trum. i'd be curious how you seal we've been working at for a so how do you get air time, how would you break through and what would your message be? where would you fit in on the spectrum? >> i've always looked up to senator booker, senatand mayor

b boo booudjeg. we need to get donald trump out of the white house. we need to have and ultimately healthy in choosing one who is i think it going to be a test can democrat moot. i spent time on the ground with candidates like connor lamm; amy

mcgrath, who lost a close bid for the house. she on invited two attorneys to come down, it gives you an eye doo what we need to see in leadership for a new generation. >> congressman, it's katty kay in washington. i think you're right. beyond the issue, the overriding issue for democrats is can they beat donald trump. you're up on a debate stage with president trump, what's your tactic? how do you take him on in that forum that proved so difficult for so many other republicans in order to persuade american voters you're the one that can beat donald trump. >> i don't think you wrestle with donald trump in the mud. i don't think that you try to outtrump trump. you try to take trumpism to a

new extreme. you've got to rise above. you've got to put the president in his place and then talk about what you're going to do for the country. i remember back when trump talked about how this mueller investigation is the greatest witch hadn't in american political history. my response to that is i just tweeted as the representative of salem, massachusetts, i can assert that is false, this is not the greatest witch hunt in the country. a lot of people would fly off the handle and say look at this. you can't do that. >> thank you very much.

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the u.s. house toughened background checks for gun purchases, continuing an historic week for begun safety perform. the bill approved on a largely party line vote would increase the number of days a seller has to wait for a background check to be completed before continuing a firearm transaction, from three days to ten. the vote was held on the 25th anniversary of when federal background checks went into effect. on wednesday a bipartisan effort passed legislation requiring background checks on all commercial gun sales and prohibiting firearm sales from unlicensed dealers. it also closed a loophole that allows the sale of a firearm to

continue if a background:is i c is incomplete. it's unclear whether mitch mcconnell will bring either up for a vote. president trump has promised to veto if either comes kroo his d -- across his desk. >> donald trump used to be in full support of gun control. now he's changed. katty kay, 80, 90% of americans support these background checks and i would guess also most gun shop owners also support this legislation. >> yeah, that was the real shift that took place in terms of polling that we saw particularly after newtown. we came out of that thinking, well, that means that's going to happen. the sum blng blackhas always been although the public is

behind them, it's been impossible to shift this in congress. even amongst the democrats voting on this, there are some moderate democrats who didn't feel they could support the actual amendment when it came through. it going to it's going to be tough even with a democratic house. >> still ahead, the summit with kim jong un was cut short after talks collapsed. now both sides have a different story why no agreement could be reached. plus congressman mark meadows defended himself against suggestions of racism during michael cohen's testimony this week. but comments me made about barack obama in 2012 are coming up new scrutiny. up new scrutiny. ♪ listen to the murmur of the tall concrete, ♪ ♪ send me off forever, but i ask you please ♪ ♪ don't fence me in.

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so, give that just saw a puppy look and whatever that look is. look like you with fewer lines. own your look with the one and only botox® cosmetic. i've been saying for months now it's the more dangerous one for the president and his team because they have no restrictions. now the southern district has two tour guides, through the inaugural and rick gates and his personal life and michael cohen. you don't want prosecutors having your lawyer and former deputy campaign manager and former director of your inaugural as tour guides looking for criminality. >> what they're doing, i'm confident, is building a case for two things -- one, to go after those around the president who may have committed crimes, and, two, to build a case, if they have one, i don't think

they have one at the moment but they're trying to build one, against the president for when he leaves office. welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, march 1. we have associate editor of commentary magazine noah rothman, republican strategist susan del percio. former treasury official steve rattner. washington anchor for bbc "world news america," catty k-- katty kay and senior news correspondent at wbur boston and msnbc corrector kimberly atkins is with us. mike allen, and jim sherman, you live and breathe too much time on capitol hill.

we'll start with north korea and see what the reaction is on the hill. mike, let's start with you. obviously north korea and cohen, i thought it was so fascinating that during the cohen hearings, there were slash and burn tactics used by republicans attacking michael cohen yet not one single republican defended donald trump on the substantial of the allegations against him, made against him, not one. can you tell me right now what is -- what is the temperature feel like those republicans, the relationship between republicans on the hill and donald trump? is there growing skepticism or are they still shoulder to shoulder with their man? >> well, there is and it's mainly on the north korea side. again and again we've seen it here on the show, seen republicans more willing to differ with him on foreign relations issues. and there was so much unhappiness about the sort of

nothing burger that he wound up with in north korea. i can tell you the democrats hope that these tour guides, hope that all this new evidence, this new checklist of witnesses is going to cause some republicans, as they did with nixon, to start to have second thoughts. >> and jake sherman, same question to you. how is that relationship? do you think trump noticed that know republicans defended him on the substance of the matter? do they believe, as chris christie said, a close viez adv of him for several years that storm clouds are actually starting to really brew around the southern district of new york and those investigations? >> well, this is a president and an administration that tried to convince reporters and successfully in some cases did, that this prz would be more successful than divided public. it goes beyond logic.

the president lands in vietnam and face as growing investigation over why he gave his sornl a security clearance over the advice of advisers. he has elijah cummings who is methodically putting together an investigation with his membership that really goes deep into the heart of the trump organization and i really do not believe -- i don't know what the president thinks, i don't know what he was watching but i can tell you that universally on capitol hill there was consternation, there was frustration about how they handled the michael cohen hearing. he did have some defenders. but there was nobody who said so what he paid off these people, that's not a campaign violation. they just sought to make michael cohen a criminal, which by the way, michael cohen said, yes i am, i'm going to prison. he conceded the point. it was all together for republicans. it was not me saying it, it was

a massive let me ask you, mike. i'm curious because i was actually watching the hearings with a group of republicans and soon to be former republicans after they saw that hearing and i'm we had a close friend who said after watching, i'm leaving the party and i'm never returning. the gross incompetence on that committee, i'm wondering have you heard the same thing that jake has heard in leadership and the republican caucus? real disappointment on how the committee handled itself. >> absolutely, with the committee and with the president. you know the president's strength with republicans, the reason that no republican who is not leaving office is willing to talk against this president is he's been strong in the country, strong in their states and strong in their districts. this president thinks so much about how things look, right, the stage craft, not the state

craft. this president looked weak. you saw his body language even at that summit and then he comes back and this is the the big change as the moves from the -- except for a new picture, we aren't seen a new peacekeeper of him for years. it going to put this man on the defensive in a way he's never seen in his public life. >> by the way, kimberly atkins, the weakness that mike is talking about, we've seen donald trump in the gallup polls, i saw a poll yesterday out of texas, the "dallas morning news," out of texas that tull will about

died with donald trump in the lone star state. it suggests there are deeper problems with donald trump's support across the country. >> i think that is. it's a problem for drpt and for president trump more broadly. and what you're talking in the the plan was to talk cohen's credibility. it took before he even took the stand with republicans doing that, with you it also contrasted the republicans in a way, which is really problematic for republicans. there was a lot of fear that republicans would be. you imachely they gave a master

class on how overside should be done. they were asking for backup information and building this transcript, as chairman cummings pointed out of where this committee is going to go next. it's clear it going to go to everybody involved. and i think the prn who be concerned about that. they' they'lland throwing it out there, the contention that the mueller report may lead to some things but not come tleetly empower so the base that he's appealing to, it's what he's got and he knows it, which leads us

to this next story. two lawmakers who took part in a heated exchange over allegations of racism this week appeared to put their differences aside yesterday. congressman mark meadows and congresswoman rasheda tlaib were seen hugging. he just wanted her to know there was no animosity or hard feelings. it was a notable contrast when congresswoman tlaib called out mark med o's who work to the monies aing and congressman meadows is showing renewed

scrutiny over comments online he made then about president obama. >> 2012 is whether we're going to seasoned president obama home from kenya or wherever he is. we're going to do. >> if we do our job from a grass roots perspective, we don't have to worry about it. we'll send hp back to to kenya or. >> kimberly, i will tell you, you and i've met mark meadows and consider him to be a friend. but i saw the tapes from 2012, i was shocked and horrified not just by what he said but what his opponent said. and the questions from the

audience and the laughter from the audience, don't you think mark meadows owes barack obama an apology, owes his constituents an apology? he needs to set this straight. >> look, that particular trope that black people should go back to africa is one of the oldest and most well known racist tropes in the history of this nation in that somebody who is in elected doesn't know that. that's hard to believe. we could see from these tapes that this was something he said repeatedly. this was not an off-the-cuff comment. was in a part of his repertoire during that time. i think it would be a great idea for the congressman to understand how wrong that comment is and how divisives in and it has no place in our

discourse. as the and they need to work with these folks going forward and they have to have a cordial relationship. but i don't think this puts this issue to bed at all. . i mean, the fact that -- the day before, o also, if somebody is defending themselves that way, i think that's time to take a look at how much they really do understand the issue of race imto their country and discussion that to their constituents in the public. >> if people are upset with about hugging mark meadows. >> on judiciary committee basically calling all republicans racist. i chase her from the judiciary

it means, you're crazy, you're crazy. and maxine and i have been best of friends over the years and it actually did start a dialogue. isn't the most important dialogue, mark meadows cleaning up the mess he made in 2012 and say what we all need to say from time to time. i'm sorry. >> that's true. i doubt you're going to see that. if someone calls you a racist, call or said what she did was racist and i think that's got to be it and i don't think

republicans have shown any interest in doing that. >> well, you've got to be up to those discussions. rasheda tlaib had a huge gaffe when she used a terrible word to describe president trump and she didn't apologize in time when that needed to be apologized for right away. then in front of a national audience, she was trying to express what clearly appeared to be a racist side show, put on by mark meadows, who has a rit she ended up apologizing, which was very painful. and then hulging him the next day, i stand she's navigating this. but you've got to find the word, right here in this moment. she had a hard time finding the word. and i am deeply and deeply

troubled and deeply offended by what just happened here in middle of the theory. was and as far as women of considerson can and i'm waiting for it and i would have stood there and and the equivocating on the part of these women, they need to find their voices quickly. that apology should never have happened. i'm waiting for the apology by mark meadows. i'm waiting for him to be and, say, president -- that is the lamest excuse to cover up racism. if he can't figure that out and apologize, i'd be still waiting for his apology.

susan del percio, this is a problem while we're trying to confront trump's racism. i saw mark meadows really tracing trump's race im, paking for because. >> it's crazy. >> it was certainly disturb what mark meadows did in bringing out black women somehow trying to support donald trump, if you didn't gngt leave public office bus there is no place for you because you don't stand where or furmt and like mark meadows who found it acceptable or even a good idea politically somehow, stop.

you're not doctor and we need to move on and have a civil discourse. i actually think the hug moment was a good thing because it moving forward. i think some of the younger members -- >> it really was. >> and it was important. and as elijah cummings said, we are better than this and they showed that they are better than this and that's important, too. >> hold on one second. she can hug him and she can put this behind her, but she can also look at him straight in the eye and say i'm still waiting for your apology and move on. joe? >> you know, it is important, again, jake sherman. it is important to accept people's apologies. it's also very important to figure out how to work with one another. i'm sure that the congresswoman is catching a lot of grief. just like i saw actually elijah cummings have some negative comments saying how can you be friends with this person?

sometimes it's very hard to be friends with people that saying youly things about you, but you got to work through it. and i certainly absolute her for that. at the same time, i'm wondering was there a republican response in was there any concern about mark meadows bringing up a black woom to stand behind him as a prop during that hearing? >> a few things. number one, this what to have been cleared by jim jordan, who is mark morgan's best friend. so from the top of the committee and number two, cummings racecued i'm your best friend. you no he played peacemaker to the chagrin of many democrats but really rest tuesday a large

part is like mark meadows and many people like him on capitol hill. i've spent dozens and dozens of hours with mark meadows. he's is torn between being a decent guy. he's not a mean spirited -- he has been mean spirited to me. he has his flaws like every public official does. donald trump likes that kind of stuff. he likes brash, in your face but meddous, by the way, if had w o wroo, he's from a district that loves him. he has a president who loves and consulting him on. this is a guy who is kofrt and i

founded my district in 75, 80% approval rating through most of my run there. guess what that allows to you do? >> apologize. >> it allows to you say i'm sorry, to say, boy, i screwed up. man, i really got that one wrong. allows you to take some tough votes actually. it allows you to do what the 80% don't expect you to do and then you hold town hall meetings and explain why. i certainly hope he does that. i'm wondering noah rothman, on your take on this. you've written a book and you talk a good bit about identity politics. like you, i'm very concerned about the extreme, the extreme elements of identity politics. i'm curious, your thoughts on whether you think mark meadows should plane absolutely.

i believe with books one of the problems is it's an insult to his voters to suggestion that's something they would believe and respond to. and it sp i saw on the reb side of the aisle but she has invoked the actual loyalty standard, an anti-semitic trope you should beful aware of if you've had the requisite education and clearly she has not. but to suggest there should be no sort of dialogue here that is legislat

legislators in the extremes in the fringes that are engaging with this sufficient in the grass roots. you have this it's so aggressive, it recent this kind of action when it occurred. we can assume that had wasn't aand sm lar will and saying americans have a true relationship with israel. israel is the offensive. unless we have talkative about that, it's just going to continue. >> i have a considerate ledder and write who had suggested when

these anti- tautaupe to use it n opportunity to educate ou it use it as an opportunity to have a positive dialogue and let's hope that's what was happening on the floor yesterday and as i said before and i'll say it again, i like him, mark meadows, let'ses hope he apologizes. it doesn't cost him anything to apologize for what he said in 2012. >> thank you all thofr. mook congressman jim himes joins us next to talk about that. plus another democrat just jump in to the presidential fray. ump in to the presidential fray.

two-term washington g jay inslee who spent two decades in congress has just launched his 2020 bid, whose campaign's primary message is stopping climate change. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪

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help stop cuts to part d drug coverage [ sighing ] ♪ oh my momma she gave me ♪ these feathered breaths ♪ ♪ oh my momma check in from afar with remote access. and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store, call, or go online today. welcome back to "morning joe." steve rattner, let's button up the mark meadows comments from yesterday. i toss it to you.

>> yeah, look, i'm obviously not best buddies with mark meadows, but as i was listening to the conferring, i was using your famous google machine, joe and discovered what he said was a little longer that what i showed. what he also said yesterday and candidly it was not the way i should have answered the questio questions. it's not anything i support from a standpoint any racial overtones everybody -- >> well, that's -- >> come on. >> i think you need to drop that anybody who knows me knows because he did say that in 2012. read the part again where he said that's not what i i should have spaen.

>> cannedily certainly is not something that i support from a standpoint of any race am and then went on to tell you that anyone who knows me tells me there's not a race bone in my body. so mika, what do you think of that? >> sflurnl and can appeared and felt and sounded like racism, for the president. >> right now the president is undecided. >> hopefully he's doing his best. i can only assume mark meadows is doing his best. >> let's just hope he apologizes and bring and a senior national security analyst for nbc who.

what did you learn yesterday that can you tell us? >> yeah, good morning, joe. we did a solid day and it was michael cohen's third day in front of the congress. whatever you think of moden being i can't get into the details of what happened but an so you can draw a couple of conclusions from that. because the cameras weren't running, because it was, not interrupted by people playing to the cameras and we've got another day scheduled next week. we learn rn and there were issues and things that came up that are going to i think be pursued not just by us but by others over time. again, what you saw publicly is what happens in the congress

when the cameras are running. yesterday ynks. >> let me ask you, congressman, are you going to be calling jared and prnt prn, the only to democrats but it was such a concern to general kelly when he was the president's chief of staff that he voiced it in his loudest concerns and then said he was forced to sign off on it. >> yeah, you know, joe, i can't tell you if it's the intelligence committee or you probably heard that elijah cummings, chairman of the oversight committee, indicated some interest in doing that. look, at the end of date if the fbi and the cia and others said we have qualms about giving this individual access to the most sense tough information that we

hp it just that they understand that it might vietnam sirking be that could give foreign powers leverage over somebody in a very sensitive position. rather, jared kushner is apparently negotiating supposedly this grand middle eastern peace plan. if there's somebody out there that's got leverage over him and that could be a now, going back to co i don't know's testimony a o twm and all the investigations moving forward in the southern district of work, be twrks. >> and how do you think, out of office and in office, how much more likely do you think it makes possible impeachment proceedings moving forward? >> that's a really interesting

question, joe. as you know, the democrats got elected on a bunch of promises about reducing health care costs and helping the economy and reduke and the fa-- there are a least four or five areas where there is credible evidence that the president committed very serious crimes. >> can you name -- just name one or two of those that would be grounds, if not in this congress, let's just say generically, grounds for another congress, another time, in a galaxy long ago and far, far away. >> look, you don't even need to put it this way. you got quickly. michael cohen showed checks that the paying hush money for a porn star apparently wild he was in

president in the white house. we impeached one in the 1990s for having an affair. i'm saying allegedly because we haven't had a fire number two, apparently and this is alleged, the president had a conference call if michael cohen is to be believed in which roger ston toll him wk invites russia to do what happens that he has been told that they are doing. that is hp and there are questions about whether the white house worked with michael cohen to alter his testimony and -- around moscow's trump tower, that raise all -- yeah. >> i just want to say, as far as

number two goes, as far as a smoking gun goes, the same day that donald trump asked russia to get involved as these communications were going back and forth is whether the gru, according to the mueller report or one of the mueller indictments, pfs when the gr -- it was when the mueller report went after the investigation. >> there is a huge amount of evidence that would implicate the president, impeachment is a trial. it is a consideration of behavior and whether that behavior is consistent with being president. so if the d.o.j. says we've got a whole bench of evidence that the president misbehaved but we can't indict the president, what is the accountability mechanism? so again, on the one hand, democrats have got to focus on what got us elected; but if

there is compelling evidence that the president committed crimes, and it sure looks look there is an awful lot of that ed out there, we're in a little bit of a box because the d.o.j. is telling us you are the only mechanism in the count of evidence and wrong doing. >> one thing that has concerned me has too do with the fact that we keep hearing people say that a sitting president cannot be indicted. and yet the federal crime, the felony that we are speaking of, the underlying crime of actually committing a campaign violation to hide campaign payments in the final days of a campaign, to hide an affair with a porn star, which helped him get elected by acting illegally, alleged lily committing this felony, that actually would be the cause of him get being elected president.

so can you really not indict a president for a crime that effectively made him the president? >> well, it's not people are saying, joe, it is apparently official justice department policy that the president cannot be indicted. so let just sort of -- >> what i'm saying, though, is there how does the supreme court not allow an indictment against a sitting president if he would came for the president but for the whatever you think of the policy that the sitting president cannot be indicted and there's all sorts of legal, aments about that, here's what that means for the next couple of weeks. if that in fact is the justice department policy and there is meaningful evidence that the president committed a crime and it already looks like there are and, by the way, there's more to come, then the attorney general needs to understand that if it is his policy not to indict a

president, he cannot step on congress's prerogative to consider whether the body of evidence would warrant the consideration of impeachment. and that has implications for what he tells congress and what he tells the public about what the mueller investigation shows. that would suggest that the attorney general, and remember, we're having this dae bait about how many get told to congress. the attorney general. >> all right, congressman jim himes from the great state of connecticut. thank you for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. let's turn to the security cleanss are and of course breaking news this morning in the the "new york times" that despite the president's lies, despite ivanka's lies, the president did weigh in over the objections of his staff.

what can congress do. >> i any first of all it's odd because as ken dilanian said earlier in your show, the president has the authority to grant these clearances regardless of the opinions of law enforcement and the nnlts community. whether or not these prudent politically wiseto ask questions as o what decision was made with respect to thos refers yrks the recommendation was made not to allow the clearance to be had. and frankly, what is it on behalf of nos just the president, he has what appears to be a very important,

especially role in prks, he's had an important role and dialogue with mexico in the nafta discussions. all of that involves looking at being exposed to very sensitive information. and so the congress would have a legitimate right to ask questions about not just what decision was made but what's happening now in the context of what made be sensitivities around what jared kushner can or cannot see. the other part of this is in the bureaucracy, if there's a sense that somebody maybe shouldn't see things, there is almost a self-muting function within the community. so is jared kushner not seeing things that are not be produced by the fbi in part because they're worried about what he may see or may do with that information. >> the new york city is reporting that there was concern from people inside the white house about the president

pushing for these security clearances for jared especially and ivanka, that john kelly, chief of staff, even wrote if down, wrote a memo about it, that trump was ordering this. ivanka trum of appeared on television, i think it was about ten disand that it was business as usual. what's your reaction to that sp. >> i can't speak to what ivanka know there is a question legally as to who grants and how clearances can be granted. the president can do this. so there's a reason to document that and memorialize it. but there's also the question of, look, i have objections, there are objects within the white house, understanding what the concerns are from the

intelligence community and understanding the role that jared kushner or ivanka trump will play, number and that raises the question of what was potentially compromised, what the concerns were in terms of leverage that foreign actors could have over both ivanka and jared, individually, as a couple. i think they're fair game for all us to ask that is a question for all of us to be asking. >> beyond jared's own dealing with foreign countries, i wonder how the act of lying about this whole process could be compromising vis-a-vis foreign intelligence services. the fact that the president said in the interview with "the new york times," if that turns out

not to r, if she knew but said e didn't know, does that grl witness and that senior members of the white house are not telling the truth . it does add to the problems, of course. any pop and it's not that its inly opens. . and the morning important a lie, the more gravity attached to, it the more resources that may be implicated. obviously then the more that they can leverage. there's a perception of lying or that there and it goes back to the intelligence community and

that becomes grist for foreign intelligence services to begin to dig and try to create influence and left raj. >> juan, thank you very much. as we take a break, we wanted to take a moment to look back at black history month and look at those who helped shape the american story. >> shirley chism told us to know our story. >> activist ida b. wells. >> she had a career where she chose to use her voice and the power of her pen to bring to light injustices. >> ella baker. >> she grew up understanding the power of young people.

>> harriet jacobs. >> she was the first black woman to write an autobiography fee. >> congressman elijah cummings. >> i don't know of a man who has a command of work in congress and a connection to his community. >> catherine johnson. >> sleeves critical in nasa, developing ways for people to go and explore space. >> my grandfather, when he was a child, the ku klux klan forced our familiar lich oy out becaus too vocal. >> and the only player to be named mvp in the national league and american leagues. >> i read a really wonderful poem to my class. we can celebrate the authors and artists. >> chuck stone was one. founders of the national association of black

journalists. >> george edwin taylor worked as a journalist in iowa while becoming a prominent voice. >> william walter davis jr. >> he was the only child of sonny and bubba davis. >> and ron stalwart in the mid 70s infiltrated the klan. >> where white people and brown people understand if you're poor and you can't pay your light bill, we're all black in the dark. >> and locke graduated from harvard in 1918. >> he was a fascinating, complicated man. he was the godfather, a very important figure. >> harriet tubman freed

thousands of slaves. she did so much for african-americans but also for people around her she didn't have to help. >> journali iis iistet iist eth. >> byron dealt with the fact in a you have to deal with lgbq rights. >> he offered us a future in love, love, love and grace will be our blessings. >> henry louis gates changed the wave we think about ancestry and african-american experience in america. black history month, i want to salute my friend skip gates.

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for women in my community and across the country. plemika, this is exciting. the kids a all dancing in the streets. >>. it's like christmas morning. >> so steve, you have charts on that new government data reveals the effects of donald trump's economic policies so far.

that's at least what the script says, but i'm not -- i don't know. i think steven, you tell me after you show me the shacharts think a downturn was coming. i think the big lesson is that donald trump and the republicans wasted a trillion dollars in debt and it's not going to end up having any effect on where the economy goes. >> so now i don't have to do my charts. >> put meat on the bones. >> before i do my charts i do -- because i know you like to do this. i want to show you two headlines. the wall street journal today, solid growth caps, a robust year. the "new york times" headline, economy loses after a surge. >> so if barack obama was the president and the gdp was going

down, do you think the wall street your street journal would call that robust? >> i would leave to the headline writers. >> i've never heard that. the new side is far different that tennessee editorial site and a great new side. i'm not so sure about that headline writer. i'm down to three minutes. let's start with what was announced yesterday which was this 2.6 growth number that you can see here and 2.6 is a better number than we've had many other quarters but the issue is we are decelerating rather quickly and that's the point the "new york times" was making. this is fuelled by the trump tax cuts of course. when you look ahead you can see the outlook in these private forecasts, not the administration's forecast which remain very robust. the expectation is for growth to

continue to decelerate as we move into the quarters. you saw it right there in the second quarter and you can now see a very steady deceleration. >> so steve, about 50% of economists are saying that we're going to be in a recession. is that number going on? again, possibly not even because of donald trump, but just because of cycles and we have been growing as an economy for a very long time. the obama recovery is now in its what, eighth year? >> yeah, in june this recovery will be the longest peacetime recovery in history. recoveries generally don't die of old age except sometimes they do. there are some thing to worry about, particularly in things like housing which is starting to get quite weak but you look at the outlook and on the next chart you can see that the convention tall wisdom among economists is not for recession

but for this continued deceleration so what it really points to is the dotted red line across the top is the 3% growth line and what it points to is that we are not going to hit 3% growth again. we are going to decelerate back to the 1, 1 and a half percent growth. at least 25% of economists think we're going to have a secessire before it's over. >> what's investment look like right now? because that always tells me where the economy is going. is investment accelerating? >> you peeked ahead to the last chart. the last chart shows a picture that's fairly similar to what we saw before, which was that investment did accelerate a bit as a result of the trump tax cuts in early 2018 when they took effect and you can see in the latest numbers it was starting to decelerate. housing investment has been down for four quarters in a row. so investment is still reasonably strong by historic

standards but the future looks a little less robust than what we experienced last year. >> we've got to go to break, but ten second, how does the u.s. stack up? >> the one eyed man is king. europe is a mess. europe is a complete mess. japan has not figured out how to grow and so within the developed world, we are still the strongest -- as you like to say, joe, the last best hope of man on earth. >> we remain the tallest building. >> coming up, president trump claims he wants to crack down on illegal immigration, but new data shows more undocumented immigrants are trying to cross the border illegally because of his administration's policies. former homeland security secretary johnson joins us for that discussion. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. ♪

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with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store, call, or go online today. we have big maces, everything that you and i like. >> they want to take away your hamburgers. this is what stallen dreamed about but never achieved. >> i don't get it. >> i don't get these people. stali wants to take away your hamburgers? i guess hitler wants to take away your pastrami. that's what world war ii was about. and killing 30 million of his own people, that was secondary,

keeping tasty burgers out of the hands. >> a lot of these folks just speaking to an audience of one. good morning and welcome. it is friday. welcome to "morning joe." long week. march 1st. with us we have associate editor of commentary magazine, author of the new book "unjust." republican strategist and msnbc political analyst is with us. former treasury official "morning joe" economic analyst, and washington anchor for bbc, and nbc news and national security reporter. >> we've got ken? >> yeah. >> how did we fair so well? >> okay. you're punchy. it's friday. >> no, i'm just -- i'm still focus focused on this and i've spent a little time studying soviet history. college, spent a good bit of my

life reading about it. i was one of those right wing cold warriors for a very long time. that's why dr. brzezinski got along so well. i know it would be a shock to brzezinski though were he still with us, that he spent his entire life trying to defeat stalinist russia and we learned at cpac this year that it was about hamburgers. when's your speaking slot at cpac? >> i think mine got lost in the mail sadly. but i would attend if i was offered and i would probably explain that the quota system in the old soviet union was about prur

production and less about your capacity to intake protein. >> the stupidity that's being exhibited right now is breathtaking. >> well, he's -- >> it's breathtaking. >> he is playing off a foil which is a convenient one for republicans in the form of cortez who is voicing opinions on the environmentalist left that agriculture production particular in the form of beef and milk and cattle is -- results in a lot of co 2 production. >> this is a stretch. >> it's not a stretch. this was in the fact that they said was doctored and leaked. >> you're not taking our hamburge hamburgers. >> they're not taking our hamburgers. they're telling you to reduce the amount of beef that you eat. >> i actually think that sounds like good advice, noah. >> we were talking about that last night that i need to stop eating four steaks a night. i think she may be right. >> a little unhealthy. all right. let's get to trying to sum up

this week and what happened at home and abroad and some of the things that happened in between that are just staggering at this point. so there are some disagreements between the trump administration and north korea's kim regime for why the hanoi summit ended in failure. >> basically they wanted the sanctions lifted in spatheir entirety and we couldn't do that. we were ready to denuclearize a large portion of what we wanted. they wanted sanctions lifted but they weren't willing to do the areas we wanted. >> however, while president trump was aboard air force one heading home at around midnight local time, officials called a rare news conference where they offered their own view of what went wrong. according to north korea's foreign minister, they proposed

the quote, partial removal of sanctions, not in full, in exchange for the permanent and complete dismantlement of the nuclear facility and a quote, permanent halt of the nuclear testing and long range rocket launch tests. their foreign minister adds that quote, the u.s. insisted that we should take one more step and was not ready to accept our proposal. adding quote, it is difficult to say whether there might be a better agreement than this one, end quote. our proposal will never be changed even though the u.s. proposes negotiations again in the future. sarah sanders says that president trump quote, is aware of north korea's disagreements, and would not comment further. so there was that discrepancy, but state side, the big issue was one of the more controversial statements that president trump made during his post summit news conference regarding the death of america

college student otto warmbier who died days after returning to the u.s. in a near vegetative state after being imprisoned by north korea. yesterday's news conference occurred on the third anniversary of warmbier's public plea while in north korean custody. >> i entirely beg you the foreign government for your forgiveness. please, i have made the worst mistake of my life. but please act to save me. please. think of my family. >> i did speak about it and i don't believe that he would have allowed that to happen. just wasn't to his advantage to allow that to happen. those prisons are rough. they're rough places. and bad things happened. but i really don't believe that

he was -- he -- he -- i don't believe he knew about it. >> knew the case very well but he knew it later. >> but he tells me he didn't know about it and i will take him at his word. >> an example of the ruthless nature of this regime. we shouldn't be naive about this regime and the way they mistreat their own people and certainly the way they treated otto warmbier. it is something that is unforgivable. >> it was -- they made a spectacle out of him to the world accusing him of being a traitor, a spy, and they executed him. the blood of otto warmbier is on the hands of kim jong un. he knew about it. he allowed it to happen and the responsibility lies direct we the kim jong un. >> you know, mika, it is, again, that poor boy begging for his life and being brutalized and beaten and killed by kim jong un. kim jong un was a murderer.

nothing happens in that country that he doesn't order, that he -- he is a tyrant of the first order. and there is no way anybody would lay a hand on an american -- on an american in north korea unless kim jong un wasn't delivering the direct orders and kim jong un had him beaten to death. beaten to death, put in a vegetative state to come home and die in front of his parents and -- and this week donald trump once again embraced tyranny and once again basically it was his -- it's always -- every day is donald trump's own personal mmunich. he appeased another dictator, this time for the brutalizing death of an american college boy. >> he coe sizzied up to a dicta.

america's former ambassador also weighed in tweeting quote, americans know the cruelty that was placed on otto warmbier by the north korean regime. our hearts with the if family. >> north korean regime also known as kim jong un. >> exactly. >> she says our heart are with the warmbier family. we can never forget otto. >> even though the president is quick to forget. >> trump's defense of kim jong un is hardly the first time he's put his faith in tyrants. >> and some really bad things happened to otto. some really bad things. but he tells me -- he tells me that he didn't know about it and i will take him at his word. >> i have great confidence in my intelligence people, but i will tell you that president putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today.

>> i spoke with the king, i spoke with the crown prince yesterday and he strongly said he had nothing to do with this. this was at a lower level. >> jared kushner sat down with nbs in their first known meeting since the saudi government's murder of journalist kashoggi. given kushner's inexperience like zero it would make him sus settable to saudi manipulation. jared kushner and russia's ambassador to washington discussed the possibility of setting up a secret and secure

channel between trump's transition team and the kremlin. the idea was to use russian diplomatic facilities to shield their discussions from monitoring. also that year, the new york times reported that jared kushner's relatives were working feverishly overseas including in china to solicit money for projects in the united states by lighting their ties to kushner -- >> okay. enough of that t. we know about kushner and what he's done. he got his money of course from cutter, so he -- you know, they ended up getting what they wanted. he was just shopping around and like his father-in-law, just shopping around for money after they're out of the white house and it seems that again, donald trump has not -- just hasn't met a tyrant he doesn't love, he doesn't respect, he doesn't believe over american intel officials. i mean, again, we showed the clips, vladimir putin where he

believes this ex- kgb guy over an intel community. of course we know same thing with north korea. it just -- you know, stupid me, i'm -- grew up republican and a conservative and i found this ronald reagan quote. to this day, this morning, to this day america is still the abiding alternative to tyranny. this is our purpose in the world, nothing more and nothing less. for reagan, for conservatives during the cold war. certainly for us republicans while i was growing up. our organizing principle was small government and standing up to tyrannical regimes across the globe. donald trump is completely turned that on its head. >> yeah, and supporting democracy and supporting human rights. this is a very far cry from

president bush's inaugural cry where he said he'd help those around the world and there was no question of human rights horrific acts during that vietnam summit and was symbolized by the otto warmbier comments the president made. if the president is prepared to take kim jong un on his word at this when there is so much evidence that kim jong un must have known about it, must have ordered it. we just saw the clip of at those standing up in a fake courtroom. how could kim jong un not know about that? it's not possible that he didn't know about it. if he's prepared to give kim jong un the benefit of the doubt, what is else is he prepared to give away of america's interests in this quest of what he calls his fantastic relationship diplomacy. you speak to people at the white house. i've spoken to jared kushner about this. they believe in this notion that

president trump can change the facts of the world just by his personality. just by who he is. just by these relationships he has with people and i think what happened in hanoi particularly symbolized by those otto warmbier comments is an awareness that doesn't work. there are real limits to diplomacy. donald trump is not able just because of who he is to fix the problems of the world. still ahead on "morning joe." >> jared is truly outstanding. he's -- he was very successful when he was in the private sector. he's working on peace in the middle east and some other small and very easy deals. >> donald trump had big plans for jared kushner. security clearances be damned. new reporting says the president personally intervened to get his son-in-law top secret access. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. last years' ad campaign

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the washington post has confirmed that some of the highest ranking white house appointees put their concern in writing after president trump ordered his chief of staff to order jared kushner a top security clearance overruling white house officials and counsel. rob porter revealed that scores of officials lacked permanent security clearances. then chief of staff john kelly ordered a review in february of 2018 downgrading kushner's clearance and limiting his access to classified information. in may of 2018, the white house counsel's office which at the time was led by don mcgahn recommended to trump that kushner not be given a clearance at top level but the next day

trump ordered kelly to grant it to kushner, to grant it to him anyway. four people briefed on the matter told this to the "new york times." trump's decision so troubled that kelly wrote an internal memo about how he had been ordered to give kushner the clearance. mcgahn also road an internal memo outlining the concerns that had been raised about kushner including by the cia and how mcgahn had recommended that he not be given a top clearance. the white house said they don't comment on security clearances but the president's reported intervention in the process contradicts both what he and his oughter who is also a senior white house advisor have said in the last four weeks. >> i don't i have the authority to do that. i'm not sure i do.

but i wouldn't do it. jared is a good -- i was -- i was never involved with his security. i know that he, you know, just from reading i know that there was issues back and forth about security for -- for numerous people actually but i don't want to get involved in that stuff. >> the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> so no special treatment? >> no. >> i mean, it's so funny watching the republicans on capitol hill act so shocked and stunned and so deeply saddened that michael cohen told a couple of lies here. again, the president lies every day, lies repeatedly every day. lies about north korean dictators brutalizing and killing an american college student so he's reckless abroad and reckless at home.

i've been through this process. this is a really serious process, and the recklessness and the lying by ivanka, the lying by donald trump show once again they are just extraordinarily reckless people in charge of some of the most sensitive secrets in the united states government. >> so joe, about a month ago nbc news reported that two took a look at the application for a top secret clearance and recommended denying it because of some of those foreign inconcerns that you showed urlier. and the "washington post" reported that four countries thought that they could influence jared kushner through financial or other considerations. those were intelligence reports so all this information was in the hands of these people and they said no, he can't have a top secret clearance and they were overruled by their supervisor. what the post and the times is

reporting today the reason that it was overruled because the president ordered it. they memorialized it because they were deeply concerned about it it's important to note here, joe, that president trump had the absolute right to -- legal right to do this. this is a reminder of the awesome power that the american public have entrusted in donald trump. but instead of just owning it and announcing that he was going to do this and override the system he lied about it. and his daughter lied about it. and there is a real public policy concern here because even though he had a right to do it, career people have decided that jared kushner did not merit the trust to see the nation's secrets. and donald trump decided otherwise and now he's got them. here's an important qualifier though. the cia never granted jared kushner and the post said this as well. it never designated the

designation. you need that to see cia source reporting and intercepts which is the richest and best intelligence that top officials review. so he doesn't have that as far as we know unless the president is handing it to him despite his lack of a clearance. coming up on "morning joe," new reporting says that ever since president trump restricted the flow at the border, more migrants are trying to sneak through undetected. can't imagine who that might benefit politically. that conversation is straight ahead on "morning joe." traight ahead on "morning joe. welcome to fowler, indiana. one of the windiest places in america. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here...

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pg&e wants you to plan ahead by mapping out escape routes and preparing a go kit, in case you need to get out quickly. for more information on how to be prepared and keep your family safe, visit pge.com/safety. coming up on "morning joe," the form ter secretary of homeland security, jeh johnson is standing by. he joins the conversation straight ahead but first let's go to bill karins with a check on the messy weekend forecast. >> a fast moving coast to coast storm and a surprise snowstorm for southern new england. overnight we had about an inch or so in areas of the northeast. we'll be done with that shortly. much of the country is pretty good today for travel. just fine in california today but that changes tomorrow and they could use a break. right? i mean, you've seen the pictures

out of california, the snow and all the heavy rain. this comes in saturday morning and this storm races by sunday morning all the way through the middle of the country so we'll be watching this storm going from california saturday morning to the northeast by sunday night. sunday morning you wake up, the snow, st. louis, kansas city, southern portions of the ohio valley and then by sunday afternoon the snow is through cincinnati. we have to watch out as this cold front goes to the south, could trigger some cold weather through mississippi, alabama, maybe an isolated tornado or two with wind damage and this storm goes up to the northeast. so we're going to see a snow event saturday morning in areas of southern new england and then another batch of heavy snow and here's some of that snow for you saturday night into sunday morning. so it is a messy weekend and march is definitely coming in like a lion and it's going to be plenty cold after that.

washington, d.c. saw about a half inch to an inch of snow overnight. looks like this next storm will be primarily rain for you. probably getting ready for spring if you're like me. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ feeling unsure? what if you had some help?

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it's a very dangerous thing for people to be voting against border security for anybody including republicans. i really think that republicans that vote against border security and the wall, i think, you know, i've been okay at predicting things, i think they put themselves at great jeopardy. >> president trump warning republicans who might vote against his emergency declaration. >> and for the constitution of the united states. >> alexander could be one of those senatorsenators. while he supports what the president wants to do in regard to border security he calls on him to find a different way to

get the money for his wall. meanwhile nbc news has new reporting this morning on why there's been a surge in undocumented border crossings under the trump administration. let's bring in national security reporter for nbc news julia -- >> conservators have always believed that the federal government gets in its way by setting upper verse incentives. the problem with just an unfetterred welfare state is that it says if you don't work, we're going to pay you more money. if you have kids while not working, just -- so they always talk about a perverse set of incentives, the federal government sets out. here the trump administration, your reporting shows, has set up a perverse set of incentives when it comes to immigration where if you want to come to the country legally and seek asylum, you're kicked out. >> that's right, joe.

>> and you're discouraged from doing that. so then if those same people cross illegally seeking asylum, they're allowed to stay in the united states. i must say even in the age of trump, that makes no sense. explain more. >> yeah, you're right. so you're seeing this correctly. no matter what side of the immigration -- no matter what side of the immigration issue you're on, this data should be troubling because what's happening is that people who are waiting to come into the u.s. legally, this is where you turn yourself in, you say who you are and you claim asylum and we're able to track who you are, whether or not you have a criminal record, those people are getting frustrated because they have to wait months, some years, some who were able to come in have to be pushed back by the other side while they wait for their case to be adjudicated in the u.s. they're giving up. we've seen people leave places where they're backlogged and they're going to try to sneak in illegally. these are people who would have otherwise been able to be

detected. they would be sneaking in illegally or sometimes they're going right up to border protection and claiming asylum. they're not even running. but they enter illegally, they aren't pushed back across the border because mexico hasn't agreed to house them there. mexico will house them in other places and other border crossings, but at this point it makes more sense if you're trying to claim asylum and stay in the u.s. to go in illegally rather than legally. if you're concerned about the human rights part too, you have to stay in a dangerous place and we've seen deaths in the desert because of those journeys. >> so if you want to keep yourself safe or keep your family safe, then the trump administration's incentive is come here illegally instead of seeking legal asylum and that impact obviously is being felt right now. julia, how many asylum seekers are allowed to come to the

united states every day? >> so we don't put a cap on asylum seekers but what they are doing is metering. it was a policy used sometime for temporary effect during the obama administration. they couldn't rush the resources down there. this is intentional. it's been going on for several months now under the trump administration in places where they only let in about 40 to 100 a day . you've got thousands of immigrants waiting to get in. they're keeping these lists. they are only letting in certain ones. often times children can't even have access to these lists so they're giving up and these places become very dangerous. two boys were lured away from a shelter in december and murdered. they just shut down two shelters because they were unsafe and unsanitary. these are not border towns where you would want to wait. these are not safe places to be. >> all right. thank you so much. >> thank you very much.

>> thank you. >> certainly not what we've always seen the united states as being. >> no. >> we're statue of liberty says for -- for people to come to this country, seek asylum. it's just -- again, these incentives are actually encouraging illegal immigration. let's bring in now the former secretary of homeland security under president obama. jeh johnson also former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama joyce vance. so jeh, thank you for being back with us. i want to ask you a question that we didn't ask you a lot during the obama administration, but obviously illegal immigration fell sharply under barack obama. it spiked under george w. bush. it fell sharply under barack obama and because of that we moved to the lowest illegal border crossings in half a century. what did you all do to drive

illegal immigration down while also -- well, while also embracing the best of what american immigration is supposed to be? >> so joe and mika, thanks for having me. barack obama once said this stuff would be really interesting if i wasn't caught in the middle of it. and i owned this problem for three years, and with a little perspective of two years out of office, the answers -- there are answers to this problem and we made -- the u.s. government made a multiyear investment going back to the year 2000. illegal migration is a fraction of what it used to be. the high was fy 2000 and of late in the obama years and in the first trump year it is a fraction of what it used to be. 3, 400,000 a year because first and foremost, an improved economy in mexico. the push factors to illegal

migration always overwhelm whatever border security you can throw at the problem. so an improved economy in mexico has led to a downturn in addition to smart investments in the bush and obama years in border security. more surveillance, more roads, more planes, more boats, more border patrol agents and more barrier in places where it makes sense to do that. and so my second year in office was the second lowest number of illegal apprehensions on our southern border since 1972. >> so you used -- it sounds like you used 21st century solutions for the 21st century instead of going back to what the chinese did in 300 b.c. we have so many drugs flowing in at legal points of entry and there's so much that -- that we need to invest there, and we have the technology now, don't

we? and it's not just building steel slats or a wall. right? >> we have the technology to detect contraband, narcotics, those individuals being smuggled across ports of entry. it's a question of investing in it and what i find very significant which gets lost in the current debate, the republican controlled senate late last year wanted to come up with a really smart border security plan that included 1.6 billion for various forms of fence, but not a wall. that's the republican controlled senate. and of course the conferees did pretty much the same thing recently. but we've got to make an investment in the underlying causes of immigration. the poverty, the violence, this is the most violent place on earth and i know from talking to hundreds of these kids myself on the border and border patrol holding stations when i'd ask them, why did you come here?

and it's because their families are making the very basic simple human equation to flee a burning building. and there's no amount of border security you can throw to deter that, to throw at that problem and so we've got to make an investment. our congress has started down that road. i'm worried that the dollar amounts are going in the wrong direction, but that's -- that's how we have to address this problem. it's not a quick, easy fix. it's a long-term investment. >> so let's move from the border wall to michael cohen. your latest op ed is so yes, michael cohen is a liar and a criminal. so how come you believed him? tell us about it. >> i thought that the cohen testimony was very interesting and maybe instructive to people in an era where the president has been commenting on rats and saying that we should no locker have flipping. cohen is a lesson in how someone who is engaged in criminality,

someone who we wouldn't hold up to our kids as an example can become a credible witness. it doesn't mean that we take him at his word or believe him without corroboration, but when a witness who's been involved in criminal conduct by a group and that's who prosecutors have to use as witnesses. you don't typically have choir boys as your witnesses as a prosecutor. you have someone like michael cohen. so when he brings his -- >> and joyce, isn't it shocking -- well, i guess shocking is the wrong words when you talk about this republican congress. let's just say didn't the republicans on that committee look stupid when they said they couldn't trust him because he had told lies in the past to protect donald trump. what criminal enterprise -- what mob organization doesn't have somebody like this that prosecutors pray come forward so they can figure out what the interworkings of a mob organization or a criminal

enterprise is? these republicans unless they have been living like with their heads under a rock for 50 years have to understand this is how prosecutors break through criminal organizations. >> that's exactly right. and they seem to be johnny come latelies to the discovery of how the criminal justice system works. look, cohen had already conceded that he was a liar. he had pleaded guilty to those charges in federal court and so he comes into congress with nothing to lose and only gain from telling the truth. the fatality for him if he continues to lie and it's clear at this point that bob mueller and the southern district of new york are very good at determines who's lying to them. that's where he loses. so that in many ways helps his credibility. >> so just to sort of cap off what has been a bomb shell week with just, you know, a fire hose

of news and information and drama coming at us all, what out of michael cohen's testimony was backed up by evidence that really could impact this presidency or catch the president breaking a law? what evidence did he put on the table, drama aside because a lot of what he said really backs up what we know about president trump, but it's -- it's just what he said. what's the evidence that's most compelling? >> the important thing to understand about michael cohen is that he doesn't in and of himself make a case. he is a piece in making i would suspect a number of cases that are in play, so there's no one feature that cohen's testimony that ends the trump presidency. what he does though is he provides context, he provides narrative that prosecutors can now go back and corroborate and that's ultimately where the case has come from. >> we saw in the hearing with michael cohen a lot of

aggressive language, let's say and i just want to go back to something that you wrote recently that words matter. and that even when we're talking about border security and the meaning of a wall versus a barrier, can you just go a little bit more on what we need to learn about how we choose our words? >> well, first, like joyce, i used to be a federal prosecutor and i can't tell you the number of times i told a jury in the summation, the government takes its witnesses as it finds them. right? so i've been talking about this now for several years including when i was in office. a basic pis words matter and people do listen to their leaders and therefore, we all have a responsibility to raise a level of our dialog because there are -- if -- if the level of civility goes down, it makes it acceptable for all of us what

was intolerable becomes tollable and it makes violence inevitable and veleaders have to be held accountable. >> all right. mr. secretary and joyce vance, please stay with us. still to come it's per happen assign of the times when a book about equality and free speech becomes an important read. that's next on "morning joe." mp. that's next on "morning joe. has been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today.

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well, there is no shortage of inequalities in our country right now, whether it's the income gap, voting rights, our prison sentencing. our next guest sploeexplores whs so prevalent and what can be done about it. joining us now, professor of law at american university, robert psai. he's the author of the new book, "practical equality:forging justice in a divided nation." so we should start by asking, what is practical equality. >> good morning, mika. good morning, joe. thanks for having me on your show. >> good morning. >> practical equality begins with the idea that most people accept equality as a deep and moral value, but the moment we start talking about concrete disputes, that agreement starts to fall apart. and what the book argues is that we have to be practical about it in the sense that we have to be

flexible about the kind of arguments we use to deal with deep inequality, as well as the different sort of audiences that we are trying to address. and that's the basic argument. that equality is a really important form of law and it's a very important way of trying to talk about problems. but it's sort of like a sledgehamm sledgehammer, right? and sometimes we need that sledgehammer when the dispossessed group hasn't had access to a particular institution like perhaps education or marriage. but that at other times, the sledgehammer isn't going to be the tool that we need. instead, we might need a screwdriver or a chisel, and that's really what the book is about, trying to talk about all of those different ways in which we can reduce some of the burdens that fall disproportionately on other groups, but in different ways. >> but you know, robert, especially in these divided times, it is so important that we persuade those who others may look at as being unpersuadable, and just listening to you talk about this, the greatest -- i

think the starkest example was abraham lincoln, who at the beginning of the civil war said, we are not fighting this civil war for slavery. i am fighting this civil war to preserve the union. and there was this letter that lincoln wrote. even though he knew where he was going to go, that it was, for lincoln, about slavery, he said, if keeping the country half slave, half free gets us to preserving the union, i will do that. and he went through all of these other steps, because he was dealing in 1861, at the beginning of 1862, with a country, who had riots in new york city, that didn't want to talk about slavery. but lincoln started there and then moved forward and got to the emancipation proclamation. and he persuaded, over time, the unsper wa unpersuadables to get to where he was going all along, right? >> i think that's absolutely right, joe. i think sometimes pragmatism

gets a bum rap. i think people think that all of that pragmatism entails is settling for half a low, making compromises where we shouldn't be making those compromises. but i think that if we think about practical equality in the sense that i talk about in the book, it's more about being flexible, understanding your audience, and realizing that sometimes the way we normally talk about equality, nah that discourse itself can create road blocks. so, you know, sometimes we can get too wrapped up with wanting to label somebody a bigot or we're not noticing that somebody is hesitant to embrace our claim of equality, because they're worried, sometimes legitimately, that a particular institution will be changed beyond all recognition. and i think we need to be able to, at least those of us that care about equality, sense when those kinds of moments are happening. and if we're meeting that roadblock, we've got to find another way like lincoln, as you described, to at least address those concerns and sometimes the argument is something about

fairness, as opposed to equality. sometimes the argument might be about reducing, say, cruelty. there are a lot of people in society today, let's talk about migrants, you've been talking about that this morning, where a lot of people have trouble treating undocumented migrants exactly the same as u.s. citizens. and we have to understand that that's part of the discourse. but there could be other ways of talking about some of the problems that the administration, for example, are creating through their policies. and reducing excessive cruelty at the border through some of their policies. fairness, because they want to change a number of their policies in terms of how some asylees are treated as opposed to people coming from other parts of the country. i think sometimes these kinds of arguments can do some good. it's not exactly the same as equality, but it will lift some of the burdens that they face. >> and jeh johnson, of course,

in the civil rights movement, americans that had opposed advances in civil rights, saw the emmitt till tragedy, saw the birmingham church bombing. and again, these very values that roberts talking about actually moved the country, remarkably. i mean, remarkably towards the advancement of civil rights, supporting the advancement of civil rights. >> martin luther king used to say that change can be messy. it requires people to give up something they occupy in a comfort zone. and i saw this myself, when we were assessing in the defense department, in 2010, whether we could repeal the don't ask, don't tell law such that gay and lesbian service members could serve openly. and when service members had a chance to personalize it and image what it would be like to

have to conceal facts about your family and so forth, it began to resonate with them, such that we were able to repeal that law and there weren't so many bumps in the road after all. >> joyce, i'm sure you saw this all the time as a prosecutor. you've got to know your jury. and i think sometimes in this trump administration, i mean, we bang our heads against the wall and are more interested in talking about why we're shocked than persuading the persuadables. >> you know, robert makes a wonderful point in the book, talking about felon voters, restoring the right to vote. this is an issue, as part of criminal justice reform, that's found traction on both the right and the left in american politics. we need to use this sort of area where people who don't agree about very much can find agreement and see if we can use that sort of rhetoric to move forward.

>> all right. the book is "practical equality: forging justice in a divided nation." available now and what a time for it. robert tsai, thank you so much. jeh johnson, joyce vance, and susan del percio, thank you as well. it's been quite a week, skrjoe. >> quite a week. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. thanks, joe. hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, declassified! "the new york times" reports that president trump demanded a top security clearance for his son-in-law, despite objections from his own intelligence officials. a direct contradiction to what the president said, what the white house said, and what his daughter, ivanka trump said about that very security clearance. >> the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> hmm. >> and just the