devoted friends outwardly happy, inwardly who really knew? that's all for this edition of "dateline". i'm craig melvin. thanks for watching. ching. good morning. i'm philip mena, msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west and here's what's happening. on the defense, the white house under fire over jared kushner's security clearance. democrats threatening to take action if they don't get answers. >> he has the absolute authority to do that and he trusts jared as members of his senior team. >> if there's somebody out there that has leverage over him, and that could be a very, very seriously compromising thing. >> ripple effects of michael cohen's testimony. what this could mean for the president's children and why it could haunt the president even after he leaves office. new this morning president

trump is expected to speak in a few hours at the nation's top gathering of conservatives. he's likely to double down on the prevailing line of attack emerging from the political conservative action, decrying democrats socialists and extremists. while she wasn't there the star on and off stage was representative alexandria occasio-cortez. >> democrats have gone bat crap crazy. >> that system is socialism. >> that is why alexandria occasio-cortez has introduced the green new deal. this is what stalin dreamt about but never achieved. meanwhile the political and legal stakes for the president and his inner circle are now much higher after the bomb shell testimony of his former lawyer and so-called fixer michael cohen. he detailed allegations giving democrats a road map of how to shape their investigations, who to question next and where to fine some answers about trump's

business practices. the last time i appeared before congress i came to protect mr. trump. today, i am here to tell the truth. >> he lied a lot. >> he's a racist. he's a con man. he's a cheat. >> he didn't lie about one thing. he said no collusion. >> questions have been raised about whether i know of direct evidence that mr. trump or his campaign colluded with russia. i do not. >> this is so bad for our country. >> after three days of hearings cohen will return on wednesday to resume testimony behind closed doors before the house intelligence committee and the week after that trump's long time business associate, felix sadder will testify in an open hearing. he's a russian born convicted felon at the center of the trump tower in moscow.

and they want allen weisselberg to testify. he was mentioned repeatedly by michael cohen as the person who knows the most. compounding this "new york times" reporting that the chief of staff was ordered to give jared kushner security clearance. the chair of the house oversight committee, elijah cummings now giving the white house an ultimatum to provide security clearances and documents as well as witnesses. mike, good morning. we're going to see the president for the first time since the north korean summit. will we hear anything do you think? >> reporter: good morning. as far as that appearance at the cpac conference is concerned we can expect a lot of red meat to s salivating republican base. you outlined the prelims they

are giving and saying from the podium about some top figures in the democratic party and rising stars as well. stars this investigation is concerned if you listen to elijah cummings, he says the white house is stonewalling in his request for documents about this investigation that he's under taken way back on january 23rd when he first wrote the white house asking for some documents around the security clearance process here at the white house. as you report since then that bomb shell "new york times" report that the president actually stepped in and overruled top advisers in both the intelligence community and his chief of staff and white house counsel recently departed don macbegan who did not want to go forward giving jared kushner that security clearance. a lot of controversy over the last couple of days about that process. that was on the minds of nbc news when kellyanne conway was

asked at the cpac conference why the president went ahead and did that. >> why would he tell the "new york times" and these other organizations he has not meddled in that process if it appears de. >> you have to go back to what the president said.ior team to negotiate peace in the middle east. >> all right. looks like we lost that. joining me now i want to bring in daniel litman. as well as our white house correspondent. thank you both for joining us this morning. i want to start with jared kushner top security clearance. the "new york times" reporting how the president had ordered kushner's clearance and it cites four sources but the president and ivanka trump said this recently. >> did you tell general kelly or anyone else in the white house to overrule security officials the career varts?

>> i wouldn't do it. jared is a good -- i was never involved with the security. >> there were anonymous leaks about there being issues but the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> clear denials from both of them. fallout been so far from this? >> i think we can expect john kelly to be called to testify on this matter. and, you know, he would be one oath and he wrote a memo at the time saying he was against this. he wanted to stop, you know, trump from doing this. i think you'll get jared and ivanka called to testify. it will be interest field goal they stick to the same line or all terrify their story. because they know lying to congress can put you in jail and i don't think they are willing to do that just to protect their

father on something that he actually has the authority to do. but it's embarrassing to the president when he's getting security clearance for his son-in-law. >> to underscore your time, john kelly and former white house counsel don mcgahn were so aplarmd they wrote separate people months detailing the president's order. how rare is this for a presidential order top secret security clearance despite objections? it's extremely rare. you have president trump who likes to, obviously, zig when others zag. trump does not do things like other presidents have done, other politicians have done. it's of great concern to democrats but a lot of other people as well. it was obviously a concern of chief of staff general kelly as well as don mcgahn. can you just imagine the possibility of john kelly coming to congress to testify about

this? under oath? i think that would be pretty amazing and pretty explosive just on the face of that. president trump has said these kinds of things before to the media. they've been contradicted later from others. so this thing is not going away. >> that would be something else. the other major story this week was that bomb shell testimony from trump's former lawyer and fixer michael cohen. i want to ask your major takeaways from those allegations. >> it was buried at the end of his testimony and closing remarks. he said if trump loses power in 2020 he may not go willingly. so, you know, he might get dragged out of the white house because he, cohen thinks he has an authoritarian mindset. it was interesting he was very matter of fact in his testimony. there was a good op-ed on this by john dean who kind of

compared himself to michael cohen, john dean was, of course, of the nixon era and had to testify against president nixon and he thought there was a lot of parallels with -- you know when you're working for a guy you get wrapped up in the mentality of protecting him and taking a bullet for him. now republicans on the committee they were not willing to defend trump's behavior in terms of writing checks to, you know, cover up mistresses but they wanted to attack the credibility of cohen. >> what was your main takeaway from that testimony? how big of a game changer was that? >> it could be a very big game changer especially in the back and forth with certain members of congress and the doors that were opened to possibly future investigations about potential tax evasion, about potential obstruction of justice. there's a lot of new avenues or bigger avenues to now to be

investigated, to be looked at by congress. more opportunities for elijah cummings to seek more subpoenas, bring more people into congress, people who are close to the trump organization. i would like to note also that you played the tape of cohen saying that he did not know of any collusion. i think that's pretty significant considering how close cohen was. so there's going to be some drilling down in that area as well. >> something that president trump repeatedly reminded us this week. also i want to take a look at a crucial piece of evidence. this copy here is a check signed by president. cohen said it was the to reimburse him to cover up hush money payments. are members considering this as evidence, that the sitting president of the united states committed a crime and would that rise to the level of impeachment? >> i think they do want to talk about impeachment much after this hearing because they

thought it was premature. but they definitely think of that check as, you know, part of the evidence to use typical peach him. i think everyone is waiting for and for the democratic investigations to continue. they only heard from michael cohen. they want to hear from more people before they decide if, you know, whether they should impeach trump because that would be a process that would probably tear up the country a little bit in terms of very divisive -- we're still talking about the nixon era in terms of, you know, he had to resign. so this is not an easy process and democrats want to think through their 2020 implications. maybe it would be better to run against a weakened trump in 2020 than someone who is off the table. >> those democrats in the house there hoping to use that testimony we saw from michael

cohen as a road map for investigations going forward. from the people that cohen mentioned in his testimony which one can offer the greatest insight into the missing pieces of these investigations? >> i'm very fascinated by the people at the top of the trump organization that he listed. when i talked to my source at the white house they always told me that one of their biggest fears, not from -- was not from the campaign, not from his early years in the administration. but when cohen's office was raided by agents and they went in and kind of pulled all the shadows and all the, you know, all the dust off the books that was in his office, because there's so much going back years and gathers in the trump organization that they did not have any control of. so for those people to be brought in at the top of that organization who had been working with trump for years if not decades, i think there can be a lot more skeletons that can

be pulled out. >> a lot more to come. thank you both for joining us so early on this @morning. two people who could become household names as a result of michael cohen's testimony coming up. ng up -ah, the old crew! remember when we all used to go to the cafeteria and just chow down midday? -you mean, like, lunch? -come on. voted "most likely to help people save $668 when they switch." -at this school? -didn't you get caught in the laminating machine? -ha. [ sighs ] -"box, have a great summer. danielle." ooh. danielle, control yourself. i'd like to slow it down here with a special discount for a special girl. danielle, this one's for you.

you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. you can barely feel. guys do whatever it takes to deal with shave irritation. so, we re-imagined the razor with the new gillette skinguard. it has a unique guard between the blades. that's designed to reduce irritation during the shave.

because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. the best a man can get. gillette. a business owner always goes beyond what people expect. that's why we built the nation's largest gig-speed network along with complete reliability. then went beyond. beyond clumsy dials-in's and pins. to one-touch conference calls. beyond traditional tv. to tv on any device.

beyond low-res surveillance video. to crystal clear hd video monitoring from anywhere. gig-fueled apps that exceed expectations. comcast business. beyond fast. new this morning three appearances on capitol hill by the president's former attorney michael cohen may spark more hearings from several officials

at the trump organization after cohen claimed they could be aware of potential crimes. cohen is expected to testify again before the intel committee on wednesday something his attorney said was not planned. here he is after cohen's testimony. >> in a way michael was more effective today than he even was yesterday. today new information was developed that really could be game changing. the development of this new information is the reason that he's coming back next wednesday. i think that the trump white house and mr. trump himself doesn't seem to have read the definition of obstruction of justice, or of perjury and that's about the best i can tell you. but it's pretty explosive. >> joining me now msnbc legal analyst danny cevalos.

>> michael cohen gave so much information. main is coming back so congress can delve more into that information and lanny's comments suggest that objection of justice should be a concern for the president, whether that has to do with james comey firing. it might be like ordering people like michael cohen to give false testimony to congress. i think that might be what cohen may be talking about to congress. which is ironic because it's a crime he was convicted of already which is lying to congress. so while cohen has credibility issues, he obviously is giving information at this point that congress finds so interesting that he's coming back for an encore. >> cohen name dropped a lot of people in this hearing. the intel committee says they intend to call allen weisselberg before their committee. do they have to show up and

testify? >> it's not a surprise they are calling allen weisselberg. but allen weisselberg is also someone that we've all long known may have even more information about the trump organization than michael cohen simply by virtue of having been at the trump organization so much longer than michael cohen. what we know at this point is that allen weisselberg has immunity, but we don't really know if it's partial immunity or complete immunity and the government isn't really volunteering that information. that may affect a lot of what allen weisselberg says or doesn't say if he comes to testify before congress. >> could they make him show up, could they subpoena him? >> congressional subpoenas must be obeyed. congress historically has honored in a sense privilege, attorney/client privilege, common law privileges. congress is not required to honor those. on the other hand, a witness can

assert the fifth amendment if he's subjected to possible criminal liability for his statements and that's why the immunity, the degree of immunity given allen weisselberg here becomes key. since we don't know exactly the contours of that immunity we can't be sure yet what allen weisselberg will say before congress. >> you just mentioned the option of pleading the fifth. the president has said previously only the mob takes the fifth. and if you're innocent why are you taking the fifth. will this move by the president's allies end up hurting the president? >> if taking the fifth involves not testifying about a crime that involves the president, then, yes. the president's statement is partially true because the amendment is about potential be against yourself. the reality of the fifth amendment is it protects us from being forced to testify about

possible crimes. so the president is partially correct when he says that's what criminals take the fifth amendment and they often do. but if the criminality leads to you, mr. president, then you should still be concerned because the government and congress have other ways of finding out that information. >> i want to talk about one of trump's allies well, sean hannity. he's finding himself a potential witness after an interview with the president where hannity claimed the president told him a dozen times he made those hush money payment decisions without telling the president. do you think hannity just made himself a witness here? >> yes. anybody who cohen named or talked to becomes a potential witness. just by way of example, another very, very targeted witness after the cohen could be not just allen weisselberg but trump's secretary, for example. this is the ideal low level employee and i mean that

respectfully but lower level employee who really doesn't want to take the burden for his or her boss and is much more likely to volunteer information. so in that sense similarly sean hannity if he had a few conversations with michael cohen is not going to like the possibility of being hailed before congress as a witness, and he's going to tell the truth because he has no direct loyalty to the president. >> seems everyone within the orbit of the president is getting drawn in these days. our thanks to msnbc legal analyst danny. thanks. president trump's re-election bid why it may have more to do with keeping prosecutors at bay. next.

we humans are strange creatures. other species avoid pain and struggle. we actually... seek it out. other species do difficult things because they have to. we do difficult things. because we like to. we think it's... fun. introducing the all-new 2019 ford ranger built for the strangest of all creatures. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. i get to select my room from the floor plan... free wi-fi... ...and the price match guarantee. so with hilton there is no catch. yeah the only catch is i'm never leaving. no i'm serious, i live here now. book at hilton.com and get the hilton price match guarantee.

oh! oh! oh! ♪ ozempic®! ♪ book at hilton.com (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. oh! under seven? and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. oh! up to 12 pounds? a two-year study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death. oh! no increased risk? ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes, or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not share needles or pens. don't reuse needles. do not take ozempic® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to ozempic®. stop taking ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, itching, rash, or trouble breathing.

including pancreatitis. tell your doctor if you have diabetic retinopathy or vision changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase the risk for low blood sugar. common side effects are nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, and constipation. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. i discovered the potential with ozempic®. ♪ oh! oh! oh! ozempic®! ♪ ask your healthcare provider if ozempic® is right for you.

new questions about the political and legal peril facing president trump. former new jersey governor chris christie who worked on trump as transition team is raising this warning. >> bob mueller is not should concern the president or white house it's the southern district of new york. what they are doing is building a case for two things. one to go after those around the

president who may have committed crimes and two, to build a case, if they have one, i don't think they have one at the moment, but they are trying to build one against the president for when he leaves office. >> joining me now democratic strategist zach friend, he worked on obama's presidential campaign and nationally syndicated columnist a "boston herald" radio host. how remarkable is this idea that prosecutors could be building a case to bring against the president after he leaves office? >> in some respects it's totally unprecedented. i'll say this too. governor christie tried to clarify those remarks the next day which is common among the administration, the president itself and their surrogates within 24 hours they try to walk it back. the first 24 hours that's when you get the truth. governor christie was telling you what's coming down the pike. mr. cohen has provided a blueprint for the prosecution that one of the real concerns of the president is what happens

post-presidency and he's exposed himself and a lot of his surrogates and family to some serious legal issues. >> adrianna, the "new york times" tweeted about christie's remarks saying this is something several trump advisors believe and see it parts a personal rational for seeking a second term. does this line up with what you're hearing? >> no, i don't think so because president trump has always wanted a second term. he's never said otherwise. he's also actively fundraised, raising $130 million in his first two years for re-election term. seeking a second term was something he wished to do. i don't think it's because he's trying to avoid prosecution after he leaves office. although i think his family members will have to be concerned about them being targeted, unfortunately. and i agree with zach. this is unprecedented we would have a system of justice that would be pursuing a president

and his family members and his associates. we didn't see this with hillary clinton. she wasn't president. but with bill clinton. we didn't see this with barack obama or any prior president. it feels like an inquisition and i think it could potentially turn off a lot of voters. >> we are in unchartered waters. zach, former trump attorney michael cohen gave investigators a lot of new material this week. here's just a few of the noteworthy moments we had to see. take a watch. >> the president of the united states thus wrote a personal check for the payment of hush money as part of a criminal scheme to violate campaign finance laws. a lot of people have asked me about whether mr. trump knew about the release of the hacked documents, democratic national committee e-mail ahead of time. and the answer is yes. i lied to congress when mr. trump stopped negotiating the

moscow tower project in russia. i stated that we stopped negotiating in january of 2016. that was false. our negotiations continued for months later during the campaign. >> zach, what were your biggest takeaways from that? >> well, i mean my biggest takeaway is he's just provided blueprint for prosecution moving forward. i got to say one of the reasons why the previous administrations didn't have this kind of cloud over them is because they weren't caught up in a web of lies. one thing i don't know whether this will have any impact on the re-elect. a lot of people's opinions on president trump is baked and what i don't know is how this will play across some of the states that will determine this election through the industrial midwest. i got to say, it's remarkable to sit here and watch somebody this close to the president of the united states to provide this kind of testimony and to have so

many people this close to the president of the united states turning against him to provide this kind of information. this is just something that i think will be part of the history books. >> during that testimony we saw republicans take aim at michael cohen's character. during that hearing he admitted to lying in previous testimony. do you have any doubts about the reliability of what he said this week, zach? >> i don't. i used to work in law enforcement and i got to say the entire justice department is based upon people who are con men and criminals turning against each other. it's not normally people who are clean that are involved in this activity. just because he has plead guilty to lying to congress doesn't necessarily mean he's not a witness that can provide this kind of information. that's what the justice system is built upon and he's provide testimony that's damaging. >> adrianna, what were your thoughts? >> i disagree because he's a totally discredited witness. michael cohen was convicted on eight counts in a federal

courtroom for lying, tax evasion. it goes on and on. he's a convicted felon. it shows how desperate democrats are to roll out the star witness who is a incriminate nashlgs a federal inmate in a couple of months as someone we can trust to tell the truth. he's a known perjurer. i don't think many voters watching this national spectacle will take any credence in what he says. he's trying reduce his sentence so he's kissing up to people who want to go after donald trump. he's basically their patsy. i agree with jim jordan. he's just being used to lower his sentence. so i don't think many voters are going to trust a convicted felon to tell them the truth. >> an article in the "washington post" looked at the republicans focus on going after michael cohen instead of trying to defend president trump. i writes, truthfully it is tough to ignore some of the gross

immoral behavior by the president. the reason there's no defense is because there's no defense. is there any reason to doubt this widespread sentiment given how this hearing played out? >> well, you know, i just think americans want a basic sense of fairness in our country. and we didn't see democrats going after, you know, hillary clinton for campaign violations. i mean, for example, the clinton campaign and the dnc funded the dirty dossier. that wasn't accurately reported to the sec. they laundered that donation through perkins so why aren't people in the justice system going after them. but they want to target president trump for the stormy daniels allegation or karen mcdougal. ultimately voters want fair play. if you're going to hold one party accountable to the rules, then you have to do it to the

other members of the party. that's the big disconnect we're seeing. >> zach, i want to play another clip for from you that cohen hearing. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> how many times did mr. trump ask you to threaten an individual or entity on his behalf? >> quite a few times. >> 50 times? >> more. >> 100 times. >> more. >> 200 times. >> more. >> 500 times. >> probably over the ten years. >> over the ten years he asked you -- >> when you say threaten i say litigation or an argument. >> zach, you worked for the obama campaign, the dnc, the house and the senate. it's fair to say you have a pretty solid frame of reference for how striking that exchange was. what was your reaction? >> almost pathetic somebody who is as powerful as the president of the united states, before he was the president of the united states using his attorney to be

basically his intimidator because he couldn't do it himself. this is someone who was contacting schools he attended so they wouldn't release s.a.t. information. i agree with adrianna this is something in the voters component, i don't know it will have an impact on the vote. but this is bigger than this. is this the kind of democracy we're seeking? do we really want a president of the united states that's caught up in this amount of web of lies and surrounds himself. if you meef mr. cohen is not a credible witness then why did the president surround himself with him so long. why is every single person associated with the president of the united states, indictment, guilty charges, on and on. you didn't see this in the previous administration. the reason there weren't investigations in the previous administration they weren't corrupt. this is crazy what's going on in the country and we should at least take a step back and

realize we need some sense about sanity moving forward. >> really quickly i want to get adrianna's reaction. >> i can tell you that, again, michael cohen is a liar. someone he says president trump directed him to intimidate people. prove it. michael cohen has admitted to taking private recordings of the president's conversations he's had with the president. prove it. show us an e-mail. show us real hard evidence. otherwise we should discount it as more lies from a convicted perjurer. >> all right. thank you both for joining us. thank you. >> breaking barriers. why it has a double meaning for a new member from congress. what she's doing to oppose the president's border wall. msnbc is live every saturday and sunday at 6:00 eastern. back in a moment. ck in a moment i switched. we switched. i switched to chevy.

i switched to chevy. we switched to chevy. we switched for value. for family. for power. it was time to upgrade. i switched from ram to chevy. see why people are switching to chevy. we love our chevy. i love my malibu. my colorado. my camaro. my traverse. why did we switch? just look at it. ♪ when heartburn hits, fight back fast with tums smoothies. it neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪tum tum tum tum smoothies. also available tums sugar-free. when it comes to reducing the evsugar in your family's diet,m. coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you.

we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. balanceus.org i love my babies, love my boys. since i'm a truck driver, you know there's times that i'm gone for, like, three weeks at a time. even if i'm 3,000 miles away, i'm connected with my boys. every day i can video chat with them. i could be in the middle of wyoming. even if i'm like waaay... out here, i can still reach my kids. baby, you-- you see me? (sons) hey, daddy!

(vo) there for you when it matters most. unlimited on the best network now comes with apple music on us and a free samsung galaxy when you switch. only on verizon. what do all these people have in common, limu? [ guttural grunt ] exactly. nothing! they're completely different people. that's why they make customized car insurance from liberty mutual. they'll only pay for what they need. yes, and they could save a ton. you've done it again, limu. [ limu grunts ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

in power, politics and paychecks the first drop in personal income in this country in over three years. due in part to a decline in profits from investments overall individual income sfel -- fell 0.1%. wages increased 0.3%. a "wall street journal" story about an oil boom town in west texas where even a barber can make $180,000 a year.

yeah a barber. the journal says fracking has created the overnight fortunes. many necessities still cost a fortune. in recognition of women's history month we are spotlighting a mother of texas. this woman just got elected to congress. i went back to my home town of el paso, texas to talk to the congresswoman about her historic journey and what lies ahead. escobar became one of the first latinos elected to congress. we met at ellen j's cafe to discuss her journey. >> i grew up very close to my family's dairy. my family has been here for over 100 years. i feel very connected to el paso's history. >> there's no place more

connected than its sister city in mexico. >> the border is a complex place. it's a place where two worlds are juxtaposed. there's pride and hard work and perseverance and that's who we are as one community. >> a community that would find itself in the spotlight on the night of the state of the union. >> el paso, texas, used to have extremely high rates of violent crime. now with a powerful barrier in place, el paso is one of the safest cities in our country. >> my heart was full. i was feeling so privileged to be there. then the speech began and immigrant bashing, constant attack on border communities that is demoralizing but also i have to tell nue you invigorati.

>> she's toured the border several times. she hosted a town hall at her alma mater. >> what do you remember from that time? >> what do i remember? >> your predecessor bcessor bet o'rourke said he would take down the wall. do you agree? >> i do. some kind of fencing i'm not adverse. we need to educate the public. the american public needs to decide this status quo, this kind of governance, this kind of rejection of the constitution is something that they will tolerate again in 2020. >> and just this week congresswoman escobar voted to terminate president trump as national emergency declaration to pay for the border wall.

the president says he'll veto. president trump back tracks from comments that he believes jeong had nothing to do with otto warmbier's death. in a moment i'll speak with a former u.s. diplomat who worked with negotiators for otto's release. with my bladder leakage, the products i've tried just didn't fit right. they were too loose. it's getting in the way of our camping trips. but with a range of sizes, depend® fit-flex is made for me. with a range of sizes for all body types, depend® fit-flex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit.

for all body types, if old sphow will theyense helps know i worked hard?, i've gotta make stuff harder. ♪ there, that's hard. ♪

now to the fallout over president trump's summit with north korean leader kim jong-un. the parents of otto warmbier publicly releasing a statement yesterday disagreeing with president trump who said he believed dictator kim jong-un had nothing to do with his death. the 22-year-old college student died in 2017 a short time after being returned to the u.s. after being imprisoned in north korea. they wrote we have been respectful during this summit process. now we must speak out. kim and his evil regime are responsible for the death of our son otto. kim and his evil regime are responsible for unimaginable cruelty and inhumanity. no excuses or lavish praise can change that. this is what the president said. >> he felt very badly. he knew the case very well but knew it later. he tells me he didn't know about it and i'll take him at his word. >> joining me now senior fellow

at the federation of american scientist and senior adviser at the stone bridge group. evans, you negotiated for the otto warmbier family when he was detained by the north koreans. it is really truly possible kim jong-un didn't know about otto's condition? >> it's good to be with you. in response to your question, it's really hard for me to believe that the leader of north korea did not know about this situation as it was unfolding in the prisons and interrogation rooms of north korea. this is a man who has, who exercises total authoritarian control in north korea, who has minute by minute reports of the state of u.s.-north korea relations and everything that relates to that. he certainly did know about this. >> what was it like negotiating for the family on that >> my role with the family was basically an advisory one.

i was not negotiating with anyone although i did need with a the north koreans discuss it. my role was to do for this family what i've done with a number of other american families who have been arrested and incarcerated in north korea, to help walk them through this process, understand the process, understand how to engage the u.s. government, since i had done this on the other side, working for the government in the past. and just sort of be an adviser, hold hands, give them courage and help steer them through the process. >> when and how did you learn that otto wasn't doing well there? >> the first indication was roughly about the same time that the united states government found out about it. and it was really troubling to me because it was without precedent, to my knowledge, that an american incarcerated under these sorts of circumstances had

been mistreated in some fashion. and so i was really perturbed to find out about that. i had a long chat with a north korean senior diplomat about it and shared with him my concern that this was going to be a major, major -- would have a major, major impact on u.s./north korean relations if he had been mistreated. >> just last year, the president invited the warmbier's to the state of the union and he blamed otto's death on the dictator. we've seen him do this about-face, with vladimir putin and mohammed bin salman. what makes him change his tune? >> i wesh i knew. to take a dictator's word about mistreatment of an american citizen over that of common sense and his own state department. you know, there's a real concern

here that as he tryies to builda new relationship with the regime, he's doing so at the neglect -- at the cost of neglecting human rights concerns. not just for these high-profile cases like american citizens or north korean officials, but also the repression and the harm that is done to every day north korean citizens, day after day, week after week, month after month. state sponsored systems of repression, sexual violence, discrimination that harm north koreans. that can't be the price of u.s. engagement with north korea. we need proposals here and a better way forward. >> evan, finally we heard the president walk back those comments he made among others,

got otto out. and of course i hold north korea responsible for otto's mistreatment and death. >> they did a fairly good job of reaching out to the north koreans and making it clear that otto needed to come home and made all the arrangements for it. quite frank ly, the reason that otto warmbier came home, the north koreans -- and i'm being very blunt here -- did not want him to die on north korean territory and they knew he was nearing the end of his home. >> it was just an optics decision at that point? >> i think so. the u.s. is planning to announce the end to large-scale military drills with south korea in order to ease tensions with north koreans. do you think that's going to work? is that a smart move? >> the drills have been off for about a year. i would say it's being done -- it's the right idea but it's being done for the wrong reasons. the president's instance that these drills are extremely expensive, that they're

unaffordable is just factually inaccurate. they're not that expensive. it's clear that they could have gotten something more out of this suspension of exercises. could we have walked back the north korean exercises that take place somewhere earlier in the year? this was a step down voluntarily by the president. it was apparently a donation to the north koreans. i do not believe we should be holding large-scale exercises for the purposes of threatening the regime. those are potentially destabilizing. it's the right move to walk them back, scale them down, distribute these activities further throughout the country and to maintain readiness in other ways, but it's clear it wasn't being done in the right ways, which means that we got less benefits from it. it's less stabilizing and, quite frankly, you know, in effect not as efficient as it could have been. >> evan, i want to ask you about an op-ed written by a scholar

for npr who wrotes trump just walked away from the best deal he will ever get. do you think that's the case? >> i don't think so and i hope not. i think the president did the right thing by walking away from this deal. we've learned a lot. the president learned a lot from this meeting. i've been dealing with north decr korea for many years and even in a bad meeting you learn a lot. and to keep the core elements of its nuclear program intact and away from america's prying eyes to the extent that they can and carve off pieces of the program and try to sell these pieces to us for the highest price, but the north koreans taught the president an important lesson. as he learned that lesson, he walked away, which is exactly what he should have done. >> at least they are still having talks. like the president said, there's warmth there. in the end wasn't the goal that imminent nuclear conflict?

we're away from that, sfliright? >> we've been away from that for a while, quite frankly. it wasn't in our interest to have tensions that high, and it wasn't in north korea's interest. >> thank you for joining me. all the president as tax returns. why democrats are saying they're taking all the necessary steps to get them. necessary steps to get them. . so, we re-imagined the razor with the new gillette skinguard. it has a unique guard between the blades. that's designed to reduce irritation during the shave. because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. the best a man can get. gillette. has been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good,

we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today.

♪ with the most lobster dishes lobsterfesof the yearred lobster like lobster lover's dream and new ultimate lobsterfest surf and turf. so come lobsterfest today! and now for a limited time, get ten percent off red lobster to go.

that wraps up this hour of

msnbc live. i'm philip mehta. now it's time for "weekends with alex witt." there she is. >> 7:00 a.m. on the east, 4:00 a.m. on the west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." all documents related to jared kushner's security clearance and they want it by monday. there's new fallout. >> who else knows that the president did this? >> alan weisselberg. >> one little-known figure came up and shocked long-time trump insiders. we'll take a look at who he is. democrats poised to call for the president's tax returns and what democrats are expecting to find especially after the