that's going to do it for me on "weekends with alex witt." stay tuned, it's time for "up" with david gura. well, this is "up." i'm david gura. 2:20:26. president trump setting a record for his longest speech ever. unscripted, uninterrupted and uncensored. >> and all of a sudden they're trying to take you out with [ bleep ], okay? with [ bleep ]. >> makes you wonder if this was the real state of the union. plus, a new report says michael cohen may have been involved in pardon talks. he's back on capitol hill this week to deliver more testimony. >> new information that mr.

cohen will bring corroborating evidence to the committee on wednesday of next week and there's just a lot more to learn. bernie is back. senator bernie sanders this morning sharing the stage with his former rif jeer rival. he officially launched his 2020 campaign and this time it's personal. >> i did not have a father who gave me millions of dollars to build luxury skyscrapers. >> it is sunday, march 3rd. the administration is still reeling this morning over the revelations in michael cohen's hearing on wednesday. >> mr. cohen has pled guilty to a smorgasbord of fraudulent activity. >> right after that it says at the direction of president trump. >> it does? oh, dammit! >> up with me this morning, lisa green, an attorney and legal analyst. don calloway, founder of the national voter protection strategist. l. joy williams is the host of sunday civics on sirius xm and pete dominic, the host of

standup on sirius xm. after an explosive turn, president trump ended a terrible, awful, no good week by going to a safe place, that is the conservative political action conference south of d.c. dr. sebastian gorka and judge janine pirro fired up their base. laura ingraham revealed to sean hannity, there is a winning formula of how to land a great speech at cpac. >> i heard you gave a great speech at cpac. is that true? >> yeah, it was a lot of fun. we had a good time. you have to tell some jokes and get out. that's my view, tell a few jokes, get a few digs in, talk about how much you love america and get off the spaj. if i can do that, that's always a great speech, hannity. you did a great job with the president. >> how did president trump do? >> tell some jokes. >> when the wind stops blowing,

that's the end of your electric. let's hurry in. darling. darling, is the wind blowing today? i'd like to watch television. >> get a few digs in. >> i saw a little shifty shift yesterday. they fight so hard on this witch hunt, this phony deal. they're trying to take you out with [ bleep ]. >> talk about how much you love america. ♪ and i gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today ♪ >> and get off the staining. if i can do that, then that's always a good speech. >> now let's get back into what i'm here for. and don't fall asleep. don't fall asleep, right? don't fall asleep. >> president trump clearly did not want to get off the stage. he held the podium there at guylord national harbored resort delivering a rambling speech that leveled attacks to his political opponents and an expletive laidened attack on

robert mueller. he finally addressed the news of the week, his failed summit with kim jong-un and the controversy he ignited by not holding the dictator accountable for the death of american student otto wa warmbier. >> i'm in such a horrible position because in one way i have to negotiate, in the other way i love mr. and mrs. warmbier and i love otto and it's a very, very delicate balance. >> the one thing president trump avoided talking about, former lawyer's congressional testimony. let me start with you. just get your reaction to what we saw yesterday. cpac, this phenomenon. a lot of reporting going into it that its crowd size had diminished. here the president goes. >> i live in dc so you kind of see people come and go for cpac. >> brooks brothers suits. there's a cpac look. >> no comment. >> there is a look. >> there is a look. you know, it has evolved or

devolved if you will. it's such a bizarre carnival. these mixture of people that come. clearly laura ingraham gave you the formula. it is not a substantive policy discussion conference. it is people who go and in a very jingleistic way wave the flag. i found it fascinating was the breakout star was someone who was not there. aoc. she was mentioned more than any sitting member of the republican congress. this is classic trump republicanism. aoc gives them a person to perfect sonny phi, a brown person, a woman, somebody to otherize. if we don't back ourselves in this jingleistic way, this is the people that will take over. the green new deal is ed markey's legislation as much as it is aocs. it's not good to get people ginned up over white dudes. >> come to me please, speaking of white dudes. >> and people getting ginned up.

this was a safe space for the president to go to. he went off script as soon as he started speaking. what do you make of using this? >> he loves it. he loves to be up giving speeches at rallies in front of his supporters, but, i mean, i used to go to cpac. i broadcasted from there for three years. >> radio row. >> radio row. i'll tell you who was there, white people. that's what it is. and it wasn't this place where they were always talking about policy. it was always up making a show and getting attention and selling your merchandise. that's what it's about. and it's really -- watching trump up there and speaking for 2 1/2 hours and hugging that flag and cursing and making those jokes, it resonates with the same people those speeches always resonate with, and it's not very presidential. that's what i would say more than anything else. he doesn't act like a president, not ever, and certainly not there. for 2 1/2 hours he at any time say anything of importance.

>> l. joy made this parallel, this was like the real state of the union speech. it was remarkably stayed. seeing this one wonders how long it will take before this crepes in -- >> oh, you actually remember the state of the union. >> i know it happened. it was rescheduled and it happened. >> don foust did. >> great. the reality is that because so many things happened like in the two-week time, you forget what has happened and what outrageous thing has happened the last couple of months or the last couple of weeks. to everyone's point, this is just a pep rally. what he does well is speaking at pep rallies. it's standing up and repeating over and over again what the values are of trumpism, the value of trumpism is to divide america. the values is to dangle the american flag or patriotism. >> or hug it if you like. >> or hug it which i didn't think was real, actually. my husband told me about it. i was like, that didn't happen. >> he's done that before, too.

nothing is original. >> to dangle patriotism and people who are against america and against the flag. anyone who's against it. and continue to stoke the fears of if we empower or make sure that other people have a full rights of citizenship in this country, that's going to take something away from you, white man. >> before i get to you, lisa, i want to play one clip here. the president talking about chip sessions. getting into the legal views that came up during that speech. >> and as you know, the attorney general says, i'm going to recuse myself. i'm going to recuse. and i said, why the hell didn't he tell me that before i put him in? >> donald trump getting into impressions, something laura ingraham did not mention in her guide to cpac speech. he talked about jeff sessions, he talked about the mueller report, and the expletive bleeped out there. are you anticipating we're going see more attacks like this. >> while the president was auditioning for a post

presidency snl spot because that's what that sounded like to me, some history was useful. cpac was started in 1974. what was going on in 1974, watergate. conservatives were up in arms. some supported the president and some wanted him to resign. here we are now. we can look in an amused way at the president and wowing his crowds. guess what, mueller is coming for you. be careful. john tester was quoted in the washington post, the montana democrat who had to suffer through four presidential visits in order to keep a senate seat. what tester said i'm not sure watergate would be prosecuted today. think about that. there are comic elements to a president clutching the flag like a meteorologist waiting for a category 1 to come through. his hold on the flag may transcend prosecutor's ability, senators, congress people's ability to dump him from that perch. >> where do we go from here? is this just an aberration, a

comical speech that we're going to talk about for a couple of days or will this have long standing ramifications? >> it won't. unfortunately cpac happenings every year. >> as sure as the sun will rise. >> it does. it always does. where you go from here is an energized democratic field that will get into the springtime and do some cool stuff when the weather warms up. folks are going to have to have a vetting process and come out and pick the strongest candidate because this is the very clear alternative. you know, i hate getting ginned up about the election this far out but this is a great reminder that if you don't worry about that right now, this is the alternative. >> year after year. >> i want to add to that, talking about that he likes to do these pep rallies. that's something that we -- in terms of trying to unseat him have to pay attention to because continuing to do those pep rallies consistently, again, creates this sense of urgency that voters on the conservative side also must come out and protect what's there, right? so it's a reality check for all

of us that we can laugh at the pep rallies and things like that, but if they're held in strategic places, they can build up to an avalanche of voters. we're going to come up next. up next, new reporting about what lawmakers plan to ask president trump's former fixer turned felon when michael cohen returns this week. first, ben stiller returns his inner kardashian. >> for too many years i was loyal to a man who i shouldn't have been. now i know how chloe kardashian feels. now i'm all out of faith. this is how i feel. i'm cold and i'm ashamed and lying naked on the floor. i switched to liberty mutual

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it was very productive. as i said, i'm committed to telling the truth and i will be back on march 6th to finish up. there's more to discuss. >> president trump's former fixer michael cohen will be back on capitol hill wednesday after three days of testimony. the washington post reports lawmakers are now pressing him on his involvement in talks about potential pardons. that open hearing before the house oversight reform committee made one thing crystal clear to democrats, they should follow the money. later this month felix sater will appear before the house committee. he lined up the funding for

trump tower. he wrote this e-mail, our boy can become president of the u.s.a. and we can engineer it. i will get all of putin's team to buy in on this. my colleague chris hayes asked him about that message last year. >> the e-mails may sound damning but at the end of the day it was e-mails between two friends about a real estate transaction and me from my perspective, from my side, i'm trying to build a billion dollar deal. >> another name that came up dozens of times in that hearing was alan wiseleberg. he started out as an accountant for donald trump's father. he's been granted partial immunity. >> when it was ultimately determined, this was days before the election, that mr. trump was going to pay the $130,000, in the office with me was allen

weisselberg. he acknowledged to allen that he was going to pay the 130,000, and that allen and i should go back to his office and figure out how to do it. >> pete dominic, we got this list this week from michael cohen of the coming attractions. he listed name after name after name. talk about a few of the ones we just mentioned there in the intro. let's start with felix sater. what do you think that's going to lead to? somebody who's been of interest for a long time. he's been operating on the periphery of that inner circle. >> it's going to lead to everything. i think it will lead to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the truth and any other metaphors. it will lead to a plate of pastries. here's what i think we've learned from this week. when you heard michael cohen naming all those names, it was mainly as a result of democrats on the other sight committee asking questions and getting receipts. i mean, we're way behind on this investigation because republicans were in charge and we're talking about watergate during the hearing or during the break, and they weren't asking questions. they weren't asking any

questions about any of these names. this is a really important investigation and we should have had these questions being asked last year when the republicans were in charge. that's why elections have consequences. the democrats asked michael cohen, who's been with the president by his side for years, all these important questions about all these important names and now we have a real actual investigation and i'm done. i'm going to have one of these. >> have one of those. >> that's great. >> did you see this? >> i did. >> on the subject of documents, this is something that lindsey graham, the senior senator brought up because michael cohen brought copies of these two checks on wednesday, let's hear a bit of lindsey graham's reacti reaction. >> i find people don't write checks if they don't feel they were involved in a crime. good luck with that one. we'll see what the southern district of new york says, but generally people don't write checks if they think they're committing a crime. >> generally people don't write checks if they're committing a

crime. >> did not take the check writing to avoid legal consequences class in law school, but i will say this, we're really waiting for additional testimony that's as riveting as michael cohen's. i'm really team weisselberg. he was the money man. follow the money is going to be the word. the issue is immune be knit at this. there's no way congress brings weisselberg in. he'll plead the fifth, that's his right, and deprive prosecutors. >> can you explain that? >> he hasn't been cooperating, nbc news has been reported. he was likely given limited immunity to speak about this. i believe it had to do with the hush money payments but prosecutors are probably dying to don their hazmat suits and open up the books of the trump

organization because what they're going to find is likely toxic. you're going to want to follow that money. anything that weisselberg speaks about under immunity to summarize, you can't prosecute them. that was the oliver north. congress people surely do. it depends on the scope of the immunity and these days it's quite narrow. it's a longer discussion, but suffice it to say, getting allen weisselberg to speak freely about what he saw, congress would have to go through justice and justice is unlikely to ask them permission to take the first shot. >> how pie in the sky is it you're going to get him? >> i think you get him there. the question is does he sit in front of two hours of global committee hearing and take the fifth, it makes me look bad but i'd rather live free walking around the mall. i'd rather look bad walking around the mall than look

innocent sitting in prison. the best thing for allen weisselberg is be quiet. i believe michael cohen was telling the truth. if he's telling the truth, which i believe, then very clearly -- and an objective mind can tell -- shout out, i used to practice, the objective mind is that weisselber g was in the rom and he knows. he is very clearly squarely in the hot seat here. he has potential, he has very serious risk here. i'm not being as articulate as i would like. >> you said the best thing for allen wieisselberg. >> what do you think allen weisselberg cares about america? >> nothing. when you say the best thing for allen, you're right. it's important that this guy knows everything. it would be a real -- elija

cummings said at the end of the hearing, this could possibly be his destiny. >> l. joy? >> i don't trust any of these jokers. >> why, why? >> why wouldn't you have a donut. >> like they're testifying in front of congress. everybody is trying to save their -- you know, save their own hides so i don't trust any of it. the other piece about all of these hearings, i agree with you. doing the investigations provides the receipts. it provides the receipts of things we already know exist. and so it also in terms of -- it may bring everything out onto the table but these are not things -- there's not going to be, i don't think, the one thing that says aha, this is it -- >> we have that already. >> everybody in america say, yes, this is it, everybody can jump on board. like there's not going to be that because we already know what the issue is. we already -- you know, we're just providing -- the investigation is providing the

receipts. it's a slow incremental thing that doesn't result at least from the general american public, it doesn't result to this one aha thing. >> that's because we can't agree on anything anymore, that those are good or your dress is purple. nobody agrees on anything. that's a huge problem we have. >> the purple is subjective. >> purple is subjective. >> i thought it was -- >> that's purple. >> coming up here in a minute, senator -- >> i'm white. >> subjective. >> officially launching his 2020 campaign. he was in brooklyn yesterday. he is in chicago tonight. he's making a stop in selma, alabama, along the way. he's expected to share the stage with his political rifle. ha -- rival. the american people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails. >> thank you. me, too. me, too.

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this is "up." i'm david gura. many democrats will be in selma, alabama. in a few minutes senator bernie sanders is set to speak at breakfast honoring his 2016 rival, former secretary of state, hillary clinton.

>> interesting comment, but you didn't answer the question. >> i did. if that's the way -- >> no, you didn't. >> yes, i did. i did answer the question. >> i think i have the microphone. >> don't put words in my mouth and say something -- >> here is sanders this week on "the view." >> we're hearing about a lot of democratic candidates who are meeting with hillary clinton. do you think you'll do the same? >> i suspect not. >> after a long campaign in 2016, senator sanders eventually hit the trail for secretary clinton but in recent days more sour grapes. a former clinton aide made this allegation. quote, his royal majesty king bernie sanders would only deign to leave his plush d.c. office or his brand new second home on the lake if he was flown around like a master. what can we expect? how much is this going to be about politics versus remembering that event? >> reporter: yeah, a little bit

of an awkward backdrop. over the past few weeks as i've been traveling the country, voters still do feel the sting of that division from the 2016 primary. with bernie sanders now getting himself back out there for 2020, this is something he's going to have to try to bridge but there's really no better event to put campaign feuds aside than this, which is a celebration of selma, remembrance of bloody sunday which was a big moment. yes, it's become a 2020 hot spot but it is all in the name of remembering what happened here in selma. so 2020 candidates who we're going to see here today, sherry brown who has not yet announced but who is touring the country because he's thinking about it. we're going to see bernie sanders, hillary clinton who's not a candidate and cory booker who is, who's going to be speaking not just atz this thi but also nearby. for someone like bernie sanders, this fits bernie 2.0 you can call. the new person he's trying to

pitch himself as. he's trying to weave in a more personal narrative. he's been turning to talking about his roots in activism. you'll notice yesterday in brooklyn as our beth fuey pointed out, he had several people come on stage and speak about his activist roots. this is all part of bernie's attempt to not just weave that personal narrative but to broaden out and diversify, key word, diversify his coalition of support. >> ali vitali, thank you very much. i want to turn to l. joy williams. bernie sanders kicked off his campaign yesterday in brooklyn. i know you had a chance to talk to him before that took place. >> yes. >> what was your sense of how much he is looking back? how is bernie 2.0 regarding what happened in 2006. >> i attended before with a number of different activists and organizers in the room. i asked that very question, what had he learned from the 2016

campaign to do differently this time around, particularly as it pertains to the campaign and how he plans to staff it and have people that have real decision making power. >> there was turnover this week? >> yes. he did respond to that and said that he, you know, understood the criticism that the campaign last time was heavily white and male. they were looking to diversify this time around and i hope with the thought also in not just having place holders but also have people that have decision-making power within the campaign. but the second piece that i asked about was how differently he plans to weave into the platform. i wasn't satisfied and i haven't been satisfied in his subsequent interviews so far because his response is to talk to us about the disparities that exist. we know that.

we know there's disparities that exist in health care. how you plan to infuse that throughout your campaign. i'm also tired of candidates, whatever, you know, ethnicity they may be, of continuing to repeat the disparities that exist without any clear indication on how their platform or how their plans plan to address that. >> exactly. >> but also talk about the incredible opportunities that exist, right? to talk about black women, the fastest growing creating businesses in this country. how does your platform help to infuse those small business owners that more than likely will hire people within their own community. about black women in advanced degrees but also pairing that with how we're funding education across the country because of red lining. there's incredible opportunity to do that. i don't know that he's sort of got to 2.0. i think he's at 1.4. >> how's that reboot going to be? >> too difficult. there can't be a new bernie.

there can only be the old bernie and it's time for him to step aside. he seemingly doesn't understand, certainly doesn't articulate as jojo was saying, intersectionality. there's a lot of old white men running. i get called ageist all the time. i will wear that proudly in terms of running for president at the age of 77 years old. joe biden and bernie sanders. and i think that voters clearly understand that. and there's a huge -- the major difference this time around is that we have a tremendous amount of choices. it's not bernie and hillary, it's bernie and kamala harris, cory booker, castro. there are so many other choices. it's a much different campaign this time around and we know what matters in a democratic primary. it's time for people to come together and stop being bitter about the old fights of the past in my opinion. >> i don't know i agree with he shouldn't run.

even someone who's not an enthusiastic supporter. given the field and how expansive it is, as we mentioned, to still be able to bring forth those particular ideals that he has and being able to lay it out on the table. >> how do they differ -- >> i think because we have more candidates and more options, voters will be able to discern for themselves, yeah, your ideas may be great but this person has ideas and the solutions and can also deliver the intersectionality we're talking about. we're rejecting your piece and you won't be the nominee. i'm never one to say that people shouldn't -- >> the more the merrier. >> i am. >> go ahead. >> clearly. his ideas are awesome. he's led on those ideas but those ideas aren't his. >> correct. >> they come from activists, policy experts and where does his platform at this point differ from an elizabeth warren? how do they separate? who is the most inspiring

candidate. i love bernie but i don't think it's him. >> that's why i think ultimately from a primary standpoint, because there are so many options to choose. if i'm choosing between bernie and elizabeth warren, more often than not i'll choose elizabeth warren. >> the democratic field is like this plate of pastries. you have a lot of choices. >> coming up, the u.s. makes a key concession to kim jong-un as the president kept the process of a deal with pyongyang alive. north korea has an incredible, brilliant economic future if they make a deal but they don't have any economic future if they have nuclear weapons. r weapons. iginally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. my son forest, he was born while my husband was deployed. i video chatted the entire birth. i had great connectivity.

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i have to negotiate and the other way i love mr. and mrs. warmbier and i love otto and it's sa very, very delicate balance. he was a very special young man and to see what happened was so bad. >> that's president trump pointing out the difficulties in ongoing relations with north korea and its leader kim jong-un, that after a week in which the u.s. walked away from the negotiating table during a second failed summit aimed at resolving the north korean nuclear crisis. overnight they said the u.s. will end its springtime military drills in lieu of more modest activities in an effort to ease

tensions with the north. the cost of the exercises was a topic the president discussed at his post summit conference. >> so those exercises are very expensive. i was telling the jernlts. look, you know, exercising is fun, it's nice, they play the war games, but it's a very, very expensive thing. you know, we do have to think about that, too. but when they spend hundreds of millions of dollars on those exercises, we don't get reimbursed. >> it's two big pieces this morning. that nbc news piece, also a big cover onin "the new york times." in interviews with half dozen participants it's clear mr. trump's failed gambit was the culmination of threats, hubris and misjudgment on both sides. mr. trump entered offers sure that he could intimidate the man he liked to call little rocket

man. i want to come to you. diminishing them in those same comments he said he found out they were $100 million each, what a waste of money that was but it kind of encapsulates and leads one to understand it. >> bringing the real estate developer to diplomacy. this is a little too expensive and i can't put in the receipts to get a tax rebate. the closest i've ever heard the president come to discussing exercise, right? >> ew. >> ow. >> but in all seriousness. presidents have walked away from summits before without signing a deal. this president was lauded for failing to capitulate to a known foe. i feel a little bit safer than i did when he was hurling insults at the head of north korea, but i've got to feel for those parents who heard a president renege on his sympathies and then once again take the side of a dictator. by the way, cpac, conservatives

in love with dictators. i don't recall that. >> those parents were played, and i don't use that term lightly. they were invited to the last state of the union. they sat in the first lady's box. the president called them out. this is something i think that's going to haunt him over the next few weeks and months. >> i have no clear sense of how these negotiations continue. >> they were played and were used as political props in the worst sense of what we do in politics. it's unfortunate that it won't have any ramifications for the president because you don't have a republican party at large which will hold him accountable so why would they suddenly hold him accountable on this. one of the things i found most shocking about this whole thing is i'm not a foreign affairs expert, but i watched this my whole life. you saw ronald regan negotiate in the midst of a cold war. you saw barack obama and even

bush's xli and xliii and clinton. who is this guy to go over there by himself on a unilateral -- this is not john wayne. these are matters of nuclear -- >> he has no idea what he is doing. >> shouldn't this be led by the united nations? oh, by the way, you don't have an ambassador because you just appointed a fox news commentator. >> i want to pick up on this point. it's the isolation geo politically. it's the isolation within the administration. you look who sat with him. president trump appoints steven began to be his point man on north korea. you look at that bilateral. last minute he's replaced by mick mulvaney who with respect to you has no foreign policy -- >> everything is different. everything is broken. there is no strategy. you mentioned all the past presidents. they had negotiation, teams, diplomacy, preconditions before the meeting.

the only thing kim jong-un wants is a meeting with the american president, with the -- >> two of them. >> with the north korean flag next to the american flag on the same level. they didn't get anything done because they tried a strategy that hasn't been done but the north koreans won. we lost more face. when the president of the united states speaks glowingly of the most horrible man in the world and talks about him as if he is a respectful and good leader. it's terrible. it's embarrassing. of course it was always destined to fail but trump will still come back, you know what, he gave me all his missiles. they gave me them. i have them. everything is fine. all he wants to do is go back to his people and say everything is fine. when in fact it's not fine. it's not fine then or in any moment. that's why people care so much about this issue. >> lisa, how fearful are you now that we revert to what we talked about? you are worried we could be having insults flying again? as i said, i don't see a clear

path forward here. they're talking about the coming weeks, coming months, what might happen here. if this summit tells us anything, it's that the lower level negotiations amounted to anything. >> if you don't imbue your diplomats with any authority to speak on your behalf as the principle, nothing can get done. >> it under cuts him. >> we have to hope that somewhere in the bowls of the administration are foreign policy experts that can overright considerable disagreement within the administration, right, about how dovish or hawkish to be with the north koreans, right? the john boltins have more of an idea than mick mulvaney. until those disputes are solved, i don't see a way forward. >> ever the optimisoptimist, li green. vice president joe biden not officially a candidate. already apologizing. dianne feinstein responds to that viral clip with her arguing with school children about climate change.

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well, this is "up" i'm david gura. former vice president joe biden closer to cl he will run in 2020. he's continuing to deal with a comment he made about his successor. here's what he had to say about mike pence at an event in nebraska this week. >> the guy's a decent guy. our vice president. >> there was backlash from the lgbt community. there is nothing decent about being anti-lgbt rights and that includes the vice president. l.j., let me turn to you. is this the tempest in the tea pot. whether or not joe biden should run but this issue getting steam. the backlash that that comment got him? >> you know, what's interesting is in a number of different

instances people are like, oh, he's a nice guy, yet they -- you know, we can go all the way back and list all of those things. and it's used as a way to prevent people from attacking their policies or attacking the very harmful things that they may be doing to certain different aspects of the american society. and so it's used as a tool to say, don't attack them, don't go up to them in the restaurant, don't go up to them like if they're, you know, out in the street or whatever. don't disrupt their normal -- their decency even though my decency, my very life is being interrupted on a daily basis. so it's more used as a tool in that. i think in -- cynthia very -- >> cynthia nixon. >> yeah, very articulately responded saying, yeah, don't -- let's stop this before we go any further and then she followed it up by going in more detail in her op ed and saying, this is what we're talking about. we're not just saying, you know,

don't take away this. this has very real consequences. >> cynthia nixon got him to respond. >> let me speak for and to the straight white viewer, male viewer. straight white male viewer. >> i'm checking a lot of boxes right now. >> because what cynthia nixon wrote in an op ed. it's easy to say nice things about people, about mike pence in this case, when you're not personally threatened by their agenda. white straight guys like me, why is it so hard for us to try to find a sense of empathy to look at people of color and women and other minorities and say, i may not have been affected by this now or in the past, but you have and i understand this. and mike pence has a very long history of hate and discrimination and for joe biden and anybody else to not understand that shows the disconnect. with some, i would argue, older white men especially. i think that's a huge problem. >> just really quickly, i think

it's because, you know, for centuries everyone has told you everything is about you. if you're not in it, if you're not the center of it, if it's things that don't aggrieve you personally, then it's bad, what are you even talking about because i don't see it, right? that's the center of the universe. but i think to continue to challenge this assertion that, you know, you have to say that a person is decent, you have to get back -- we need to get back to the decorum in congress and sort of all of that kind of stuff when you had decorum in congress but still, you know, had the policy. >> nothing decent about gay conversion therapy. >> to my friend from don callan, a gentleman from washington, d.c. >> this is interesting. it is a tempest in a tea pot and we live in a twitter world but it has to be placed in the larger context of vice president joseph r. biden. this is par for the course with him. we all love joe biden. i'm a staunch democrat so i love

our uncle joe biden. however, joe biden if he hops into this race, he has a long history that he will have to atone for. one of the architects of bank lack of accountability. one of the architects of the criminal justice bill. >> anita hill. >> one of the reasons that clarence thomas is on the supreme court is because joseph biden did not give a second credible accuser a fair hearing in front of the justice committee which he chaired and he was a democrat by the way. joseph biden gets a lot of love to democrats because of his proximity to our lord and savior barack obama. he has a serious record that he has to atone for. i know that he has thought about it. i hope he hops in but i think he has something to add. you hop in, you have something to be accountable. >> we have this conversation about being racist. nuanced conversations happening about all of this. i said joe buy den hbiden has m

another gaffe. we joke about things he said, when he stuck his foot in the mouth in the past. are we not reckoning with what's happened in the history go we just compartment allize it that way. >> it feels like a twitter blip that in a day or so will disappear. i agree the larger issue for any candidate is to reconcile their past behavior with current behavior. i want to offer a sunday syllabus reading. ron brown wrote analyzing how democrats need to -- >> two rounds to win. >> sunbelt and rustbili belt. if you look at the rust belt, biden tees up as an excellent choice. in the sunsunbelt, not so much. young white voters might want someone more dynamic, diverse. how do you solve for that? >> pete, we need you to solve it for us. >> i can't solve for that. i can't solve for anything but pastries at this point, but when

you say it's a blip, this is the point i'm making. it is not a blip for gay people. when mike pence is recognized by joseph biden, i don't know what you're doing with that, joseph, when he's recognized as a decent man, gay people don't forget that. that stays with them the entire campaign. you just said this man, who encouraged gay conversion therapy and so many other awful things, they don't forget that. i think that's really important. i don't know what that means in the sunbelt but it means something for the lgbt community. >> we have to go. lisa, don, pete dominic. >> all of these. >> shenanigans. >> this. >> brand new nbc polling on the president standing across the country and what voters want in the 2020 challenger and plus the democrat conservatives think is poses the greatest threat in the president's re-election next. ♪

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well, this is "up" i'm david gura. brand new polling data just released. 611 days before the 2020 election. mark your calendar. there are indications that president trump and "the herd"less he will face on his path to re-election. going to tick through some of the headlines in a moment. then we're going to dig into them a little deeper. 41% of registered voters say

they will definitely or probably vote for president trump. 48% of respondents say they would vote for the democratic candidate. the new nbc wall street journal poll was conducted during a rough week, suffice to say, for president trump after he voted to reverse his emergency declaration. his former attorney called him a racist, con man and cheat under oath and his second high profile summit with north korea failed to produce any tangible results. the silver lining in all of this for president trump continues to be the economy. a majority of those surveyed say they're confident in the economy believing there will not be a recession in the next year. the new polling data tell us more about what matters to the electorate ahead of 2020. voters weighing in on what makes them enthusiastic or comfortable when it comes to candidates. the most popular, african-american, 87%. white mail, 86%. female, 84%. gay or lesbian, 68%. least popular characteristics,

muslim, 49%. over the age of 75, 37%, socialist, 25%. fred yang is a democratic pollster and he notes the contours of the democratic contest will change once there's an official democratic opponent to trump. elections are a choice between candidates and not a referendum on one candidate. "up" with me, elliott williams. he lobbies for law works, an organization advocating for the importance of the special counsel. virginia heffernan is a columnist and alexis is with axios and mike peska is the author of the book "upon further review." let's start macro, let's start big. look at the approval rating. people always seize on that as they did. approval up 3% since january. >> yeah. >> what does that tell you if anything as you look at this month by month by month? >> usually it's when there hasn't been a huge disaster he

tracks back up to the maybe mid 40s. i would say the conclusion of this poll as long as democrats don't nominate an old muslim they have a very good chance of winning the election. don't -- yeah. that's sad but that's where they are. i don't know that any old muslims are running -- an old muslim man. so far this is consistent. he's underwater in terms of approval between 9 and 12 except for that huge outlier. and the other thing is, again, this doesn't tell us too much that we don't know and that we haven't intuited and that the whole country doesn't feel which is that he is a very, very unpopular president. the democrats have a very, very strong chance, a very strong chance of beating them. it's up to them not to nominate a candidate with what america is thinking. the polling on how meshes reaam react to socialism. that's something that they should consider. the republicans because trump isn't that popular.

probably wants to turn the entire election into a referendum on socialism versus capitalism. perhaps they should forestall that possibility. >> alexi, as you look through all of this, there has been this conversation about could he be primary? could there be a republican that runs against president trump. bill crystal is trying to get larry hogan to run. this was something that came up at cpac, a place where president trump went yesterday. it might have given him the illusion that his support is greater than it is. in that famous cpac straw poll, conservatives there at least don't want to see anybody run against the president of the united states. how much steam do you think it's going to get? >> in terms of a primary challenge? >> time will tell. >> he has a 90% approval rating among republican voters and that's huge. that suggests no matter what he does they're going to stick with him. they're happy with him. the things they say they're unhappy with anecdotally that i've heard is, well, i don't like the way he does things. i don't like the way he tweets,

but i'm happy with him. i'm happy with what he's doing. i can see them sticking with him. i don't know that anyone is going to seriously run against him. if they do, i don't know how popular that would be. >> virginia, you write for the "l.a. times." this was a question in the survey as well. do you believe president trump has been honest and truthful about the russia probe. no, 58%, yes, 37%. i follow the approval ratings more closely than i follow this line in surveys. how much has this shifted? >> i mean, the fact that his approval ratings and the fact that people think he's lying in response to the russia investigation, the fact that they track is amazing. that he's a liar. it's like -- it's like the -- it's like the electorate is still michael cohen of 2 1/2 years ago. they're intoxicated by the idea of his presence. they're intoxicated by the possibility that they think he said you're doing something larger than yourself, that you

might change the world if you hang out with trump. and, you know, i just wrote this in the "l.a. times." i think michael cohen supplied us, if nothing else, a way out of that kind of -- that kind of enthrallment, that kind of slavery to trump's vision that, you know, most of us who haven't gotten close to him think i would not touch him with a 10 foot pole. he looks like, as michael bloomberg said, he looks like a con man when he's just on the deus. there are people who turn into him and turn into smithers, mike pence, lindsey graham, we all wonder what happens to them. cohen told us not only -- >> mr. smithers you mean. >> mr. smithers. mr. bernstein. >> slavery, he was getting paid for. >> he was getting paid for. >> and enjoyed doing. >> he does say ambition drove him, but there's also something that took him over that made him betray his holocaust surviving family for a racist and made him

throw in with this guy when there came to be diminishing returns. now jail is certainly a diminishing return. >> elliott, on that, having watched michael cohen testify, do you think it may help change what people perceive? seeing him there, seeing his attempt at perform ative redemption? >> it all comes down to credibility and he presented himself as a credible witness. now he was -- he wasn't saying anything that the public hadn't heard at some point before or at least many people in the public, myself included, some of us would have believed, but he -- number one, he didn't go all in on president trump. did president trump ever hit melania. oh, no, no, mr. trump would never do that. there were places where it wasn't clear that he had a vendetta against president trump to dig in on things at that couldn't be verified. but also showing up with the receipts. showing up with the $35,000 check. it's corroboration of the things

he was saying. so as a witness and even a convicted felon and even someone who has lied under oath, he did himself favors. now it all comes down to what the public thinks of this. will the public believe him over the president after two years of constantly attacking mueller. it might stick. this polling about was there collusion and was there not. it's gotten into people's heads. the question is, does it get to independent's heads or people who aren't already in the president. >> i mentioned when the poll was taken. it was a cliche with a nod to the famous children's book. how inoured are we to that? is it an aberration, with this trip to vietnam and with what happened on capitol hill. >> i think him being out of the country on a very bad week. usually he's been boosted by being on the international stage except with the helsinki trip. as far as the cohen testimony, i

thought this was really interesting why he seemed credible. what do you think as a former prosecutor. if someone is lying, don't they usually come up with the best lie that would further their case the most? he didn't say, yes, the president directed me to break the law. he said he strongly implied i should break the law. which to me he wasn't lying. if he was lying he put him in the hopper more forcefully. >> michael cohen is a lying liar convicted of lying. >> i saw the sign. >> great moments in legislation. >> in lying history, but even in spite of the fact that he was such a liar, it's corroborated testimony. again, he could have gone in much harder on the president and he didn't. >> yeah. >> but the answer is it's all been priced in. and let's -- maybe some people look at it and say, how could more people not realize this? maybe it doesn't matter. maybe priced in, to the point where he's 9% under water, that's all it takes for him to

lose the election. >> the other thing, even inspied in spite of being a lying liar, congress is a fact finding body. you can be prosecuted for perjury and all of those plea agreements that he had entered into could have been thrown away if he were found to have lied to congress. >> which is what happened to manafort. >> exactly. >> one more question on the polls, lexie. i'm no pollster. what are democratic voters looking for in their 2020 nominee. policies that could bring major change 5rks 5%. policies that might bring less change, 42%. what mike said at the top, what does that tell you about what democrats are thinking at this point? you have an event today where numerous democrats are running. >> i think it's clear that democrats are moving so far to the left. the green new deal, they're trying to weaponize that. there's an appetite for the

progressive pie in the sky ideas. whether or not they're actually going to become law or get pass through legislation, i think people are hungry for a picture of the future that is more aspirational and positive. i've seen some other interesting polling that shows that electability really matters at the end of the day. a majority of voters have said in previous polls that they want someone who will beat president donald trump. when i was in iowa last weekend, that's what people were saying to me. they appreciate the policies and ideas people are putting forward. they're like, look, the bottom line is we need to replace donald trump and we need the person who's best fit to do that. we think that's going to come through when you have a million people running for president. we're going to come back. a lot of pastries on the plate. lisa green made these scones with currants. you, elliott, lemon squares. >> and the cook's illustrated p

mp. donald trump lets loose on the cpac stage and breaks his own record while doing it. each and every topic during his two-hour monolog when we come back. ome back from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist.

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and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store, call, or go online today. welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. it was the longest speech of his presidency, a two-hour diatribe at cpac, off script, extemporaneous and a chance for president trump to weigh in on

dozens of topics from the russia pose, green new deal and crowd size. they're talking about david weigel, andrew jackson, the electoral college, we heard no collusion time and time and time again. after a whirlwind trip for a summit with kim jong-un and days of damning testimony from his former fixer, president trump seemed energized at home with his base, hugging the flag and doing away with any pretense of presidential propriety. >> we had the greatest of all time. now we have people that lost and unfortunately you put the wrong people in a couple of positions and they leave people for a long time that shouldn't be there. and all of a sudden they're trying to take you out with [ bleep ], okay? >> okay. mike prescott, you bathed in this yesterday. you watched the whole two hours plus. >> yeah. >> your reaction to it? i've been comparing it to what we heard in the state of the

union two weeks back. this was president trump unbridled. he said very early on he was doing away with his script despite what his wife had advised him, et cetera. he did. >> a lot of references to his wife and his wife -- his wife's approval and his wife saying, no, don't do that. to be focused. there are huge 30 seconds swaths where there was no subject and predicate and there was no idea anyone could follow what he was talking about. he went on a riff about the casting of the movie "full metal jacket." he couldn't recall the names brian trump. he couldn't remember whether the senator macy horono. he mischaraterized as he does repeatedly her stance on the green new deal and trains. he couldn't -- oh, god -- >> general raising canus. >> i started looking for it. i don't know if he's a three star or a two star so i'm doing a lot of research to find if there was a raising cain.

i bet there is a general whose nickname is raisin. no one ever asked this general in iraq how to beat isis but because he alone asked him which went back to a lesson his father told him about going to the job sites because they're going to put the wall in wrong. i'm going to rip you off. >> it might fall. >> right. he alone asked the general. no one ever asked this general. the general said we can beat him in a week. only because trump went and trump asked him do we know that. the biggest take away was it was so unsubstantive where he did give away the game. i'm not going to criticize. i'm not going to criticize that. this is the greatest gift we have. the audience loved that. it's clear to me they are going to run against a caricature of the democratic ideas and sometimes i think maybe an accurate description of the -- >> let's play a part of that speech of the green new deal or

whatever it's called. >> the new green deal or whatever the hell they call that. no planes. no energy. when the wind stops blowing, that's the end of your electric. let's hurry in. darling -- darling, is the wind blowing today? i'd like to watch television, darling. >> virginia, i'll turn to you. what stood out to you? i mean, that moment, as mike said, so many moments do that. from that speech, what was most alarming, the biggest take away. >> since mike watched it so we don't have to. >> supplementary podcast. >> we all trust daniel deal to brilliantly live tweet. >> it was the weirdest speech he's seen. >> he's seen all of them. >> and paid such close attention to the detail. that can be trusted. molly jongfast is another person who sacrificed herself. she went to cpac live. they had kind of harassed her. she's pretty far on the left.

she was happy to be back in new york. we were talking about back in new york we need to get abortions, pass new green deals, whatever the heck it is. i think the green new deal is weed, right? pass the green new deal sounds like a joint. don't you think? don't you think? what was that old word for pot that was a number? you know, it was like the crime you were committing? >> is this the show you wanted? >> alexey -- >> i'll venture to you. >> we're saying amali is a regular watcher. you've been to cpac before. >> i actually haven't. >> talk about the significance of the event itself and the crowd that he was speaking to. >> yeah. >> suffice to say we usually don't pay attention to what happens at cpac. >> yes, which is one of the reasons i have never been. >> fair enough. here we are. we're talking about it. >> i don't think it's common

place for the president -- sitting president to speak for over two hours in a setting like that, especially to boast about going off script for two hours. if i were any of his aides -- >> i'm going to challenge you. there was the weird moment in the rose garden where he talked about rush limbaugh. he was so seemingly envious that rush limbaugh can do that. they take calls. >> rush doesn't take a call. >> he's getting close. >> he loves doing that. and that is exactly why cpac is the perfect setting for president trump who did a number of campaign style rallies under the guise of campaigning. and the one line he said a couple of times that i find really fascinating and revealing is simple when he says, i get no credit. i get no credit. the way he performs at these things is the way to get the credit he feels he's missing out on and he so desperately wants and needs. when he's speaking off the cuff, it doesn't matter the facts to

him. he wants the crowd to go wild. he wants people to love him. he wants to feel needed and loved and respected and like people are loyal to him. so it makes sense that he did that. it makes total sense. >> at one point he said crowd size. crowd size. he spent so long on inaugural crowd size. sarah and mercedes say, why are you talking about it? it doesn't matter. he said, it came to me. >> it came on a bad week. >> it's a cap stone. >> it's a way for him to be unstrained and restrained. >> i feel like we're feeling a little too sorry for him. >> i want to ask you about this. we laugh about this. here he was going into this room with people who have been very critical of the immigration policies he has espoused. probably some serious work in this paying homage to him. these are people that are

critical about the way they've pursued the deal. >> sure. bigger picture, flight cpac if you look at the history of cpac, it is a reflection of where the conservative movement is on the day the speech is given. cpac speeches from 2004 -- >> back when it was at the omni. >> it's all about the -- we are under siege from osama bin laden and we as conservatives can keep you safe. in '98 bill clinton is -- >> but they still talked about it. >> they might still think he's lush, but bill clinton, we need to restore dignity. right now donald trump has hijacked conservatism. the values that conservatives once previously held are all what conservatives think. republicans are in the tend for donald trump because he's taken the message over. is alexandria ocasio cortez

going to be at the center of the debate in the democratic party? that's where he's done. >> i'm waiting for nick sweeney's piece. the trump administration has another possible make or break week ahead for more michael cohen revelations to the jared kushner controversy. we have it all covered for you as we look at the week ahead next. ahead next (vo) we're carvana,

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what's up this week in washington? tomorrow is a deadline for the white house to answer questions about jared kushner's security clearance. on wednesday michael cohen is back on capitol hill answering questions from lawmakers on the house intelligence committee again. homeland security secretary kirsten nielsen will be testifying. former chief of staff john kelly down at duke university for a public event on wednesday night. likely to be movement on the mueller report. paul manafort sentenced thursday. and any friday can be a mueller friday. so we'll keep an eye on that. nbc's jeff bennett joins us from the white house. let's talk about what's going to be happening on capitol hill. wednesday incredibly busy. >> reporter: yes. >> let's talk about michael cohen, the fourth installment. >> reporter: you were talking earlier about the president's

cpac speech. this is all related. my read of the president's speech based on people close to the president is that his two hour disjointed freewheeling profane cpac speech was a paranoid preempt stiff strike against the russia investigation. as you mentioned, robert mueller can submit his final report to the ag as early as tomorrow and the white house, i'm told, is bracing for -- preparing for bad news. if not an obstruction charge, then at least a special counsel report that outlines bad behavior by people who aren't charged with a crime. so you can think of the star report as a precedent. the other thing is that that damning and damaging testimony by michael cohen this week bothered the president, i'm told, because it was so personal. when cohen testified on wednesday, the president as we know was in hanoi and given the time difference and given the setting, he wasn't really able to respond in the way that he wanted. so that cpac speech was the president hitting the release valve. there's more to come. as you mentioned, there are more

political headaches on the horizon for president trump. you have house democrats pushing for more testimony for trump insiders. democrats, as we know, are pushing for the mueller report but they also want the underlying evidence. not only that, house democrats are also planning to get access to president trump's tax returns and they're threatening to use legal action to get it. the president is facing a rising tide of troubles to state the very obvious, david. >> turning to alexa. the president leaves the house, all of this is going to greet him. it's a rude awakening. picking up on what jeff outlined there. as jeff is saying, any number of things could pop up. >> yeah, i think jeff put it in a great way when he called it a political headache. i feel like these things are mounting on president trump's mind in a lot of ways and we see that again in the way that he tweets and the things that bother him that he speaks out against. i think the jared kushner

security clearance thing is actually going to be pretty bad for the president in that i think democrats are not going to give this up until they figure out not just with kushner, the other 30 folks who had security clearances granted to them despite other officials saying maybe they shouldn't have it. i originally reported on jared kushner's security clearance back in february of last year when i had seen that john kelly just days before this reporting had downgraded it. that's a question that i still have. why was he downgrading it? when was that happening fully? i know that it was on february 23rd of 2018. then how did that get past president trump? what were those conversations like in i'm pretty sure according to a source on the hill who talked to me last week the house intel committee has a copy of the different moves that happened with jared kushner's security clearance documenting when kelly downgraded it, the notes inside the document about who was telling him to do what. i think that's going to be revealing and something that will be pretty bad for the president moving forward. >> so glad you bring that up. this was a huge story that got

not lost but people did notice it. "the new york times" breaking this story about john kelly's contemporaneous memo. alexey mentioning there were a lot of democrats upset. where's the alarm for republicans? where's the bipartisan alarm that national security was treated so cavalierly? >> it's the president showing contempt for both lawyers and the national cumulative security community. >> and norms. >> well, no, but there was clear advice given, documented in a memo by kelly and so on that say why this was such a problem. personal note. my two background checks, i don't even want to get into the kind of stuff that slowed down my background checks. >> might have to do with what virginia was talking about. >> no. >> green new deal. >> onward. >> just let me put it this way, i am literally and factually an eagle scout. >> okay. >> my background checks both got slowed down. everybody's got something. everybody's got a trip over seas

when you were in college that you forgot to note, or a bank account or whatever. but the difference is for us, for normal people, that takes three months to clear up. while that's going on, the government isn't being run effectively. in the white house when this happened to donald trump's son-in-law he could waive a magic wand over the advice of lawyers and the national security community. it's the same thing. you see it with russia, pardoning sheriff joe. with jeff sessions, we'll talk about that later, but every instance which lawyers and folks who live in these issues make clear recommendations to the president and he discards them. it's a degrading public service. >> trip in college. a billion dollar mortgage at 666 fifth avenue. we've all got some things. >> who among us has not paid off a porn star? >> that time on the appalachian trail with the eagle scout. >> what happens stays on the trail. >> i do think one potentially

intriguing thing about the school narrative is how the white house has refused to define this because they don't talk about security clearance which is at odds with regards to what though hold. >> they don't until they do, until it's politically a advantageo advantageous. >> like porter. >> or john brennan. >> thank you very much. up next on "up" perhaps the big threat facing the president. here is a small hint, it is not robert mueller. >> is there any other wrongdoing or illegal act that you are aware of regarding donald trump that we haven't yet discussed today? >> yes, and, again, those are part of the investigation that's currently being looked at by the southern district of new york. why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. we're the tenney's and we're usaa members for life.

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do you think the president obstructed justice? >> yes, i do. >> it's very clear the president obstructed justice. >> that's jerry nad ler just a few moments ago saying it's clear president trump obstructed justice. nadler said tomorrow congress will give a document request. the southern district of new york can pose a bigger threat to the president. he tried to install a loyalist to oversee that inquiry. the feds are stepping over the president's red line, the family's business and finances. trump's inaugural committee has been slapped with a subpoena.

>> bob mueller is not the concern, the president or the white house, it's the southern district of new york. what they're doing is building a case. i don't think they have one, but they're trying to build one against the president for when he leaves the office. >> cuomo and christi getting at it earlier. joining us is elliott williams. your sense of this. the import of what's happening here in parallel to bob mueller. >> southern district of new york has a broader jurisdiction than mueller has. in law enforcement and prosecution what you're able to investigate dictates what you do. case in point, you hear a domestic dispute at the next door neighbor's house. the fbi can't open an investigation. it would be the child custody folks, local cops, something like that. it's the same thing here. robert mueller can look into collusion between the trump campaign, you know, and russia,

you know, dliecrimes that direc arise from that. lying, obstruction of justice. they don't have the authority to go and start investigating campaign finance crimes that are unconnected. southern district of new york being the prosecutor's office that, you know, is where trump's business organization is based can look into all of that and all of this came out of michael cohen testimony, things found and seized from michael cohen's home and so on. so it is an enormous threat to the president because what they have jurisdiction over if not russia, even though they could still investigate those things, are tax crimes, campaign finance crimes. >> insurance. >> insurance fraud, banking fraud. some of these crimes that carry a 10 year statute of limitations that could extend far into the future. they could look into all -- bribery. the payments, the hush money, all of it. we were talking about this in the break. it's the most prestigious prosecutor's office in america.

even these things that cohen was talking about, they were probably looking into them at some point before. this just provided another bit of evidence that they can rely on because it's strong testimony. >> mike, there were moments we played earlier where michael cohen said he can't talk about something because of what's happening with the southern district. it was coy and tantalizing. >> tantalizing was the word i was thinking of. now robert mueller is the special prosecutor. the question i have -- i have a lot of questions. i do have a question about how likely do you think it is that there will be no mention of certain crimes in the mueller report? the mueller report will come out. it won't include, i don't know, a foreign -- >> right. >> it won't include something about estate taxes. perhaps trump and his defenders will say he's clear on that but he's very much not clear and the southern district will be investigating it. i guess there's a lot of ifs there, a lot of contingencies. we don't know how public the mueller report will be. i'm writing everything down or

i'm just writing down what i can prove, but i do think there's a real chance that the mueller report will not list certain crimes and still the southern district will be reviewing that. >> the mueller report might be three sentences long. >> great for this twitter age. >> 240 characters. >> under the law, what mueller's obligated to do is provide a summary of the cases he has charged and decisions where they chose not to charge somebody. then the attorney general will provide a report to congress summarizing that. real quick, we have gotten into this idea that it's all about collusion versus no collusion and it's all a failure if it doesn't lay out collusion. it's conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws, conspiracy to violate tax laws. conspiracy against the united states. despite what's in this mythic call report we don't know about,

the question is the illegality that can be uncovered in the united states. there's a long list of it that cohen had identified. even the things that mueller finds that aren't quote, unquote, so bad. >> not at all. a. >> this idea we're wondering if mueller will save us is wrong. but chris christie saying sdny will save us -- >> tisch james is out there as well. >> she might save us with her state crimes. but sdny also has an animus that could animate it in a good way which is they are the ones who sat through all of these trump org crimes all of this time and have been unable to prosecute them and had to, you know, drop their criminal investigation of

ivanka and eric for puffery around some of their properties and there have been some suspicions around eric schneiderman, cy vance. i think we're not going to be fooled again. that's one potentially great thing about sdny. what mueller doesn't have the is the counter intelligence background. he changed the fbi into a counter intelligence. they are not going to be indicting the ira or the gru in russia and mueller is laying out this conspiracy to defraud the united states. i still think he's got it. >> they weren't directly given the jurisdiction but they can and they went after the blind sheik and all kinds of other serious terrorists. we should ask ourselves broad authority in sdny, they can cover anything they find. we should ask ourselves about a country what we're looking for,

right? what's the outcome? is it beating donald trump? because, look, there's a political process for that stmpt removing donald trump? there's a political process for that and a congressional process for that. is it slapping handcuffs on that? or is it finding the truth, right? any of these -- and i think people are sort of muddied in what -- >> could be a venn diagram. >> could be a venn diagram. what i'm looking for, if there are charges that are criminally prosecutable, then bring them. if they can't be brought against the president of the united states, then don't. we've seen 34 people charged as a result of mueller's direct efforts. we should stop and ask what is it we want and what is the goal? the week started off with charges of racism after his charges of hitting spike lee at the academy awards. e academy aws i'm here today to tell you that mr. trump is a racist.

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most disgusting racial slur when he called me a dog. >> former political aide to president trump joining michael cohen in publicly calling her former boss a racist after his jaw dropping testimony on capitol hill. >> mr. trump is a racist. racis. in private he's even worse. he once asked me if i could name a country run by a black person that wasn't a [ bleep ] hole. this was when barack obama was president of the united states. while we were once driving through a struggling neighborhood in chicago, he commented that only black people could live that way. >> the associated press posed this question in february of 2019. do you think trump is a racist. eugene scott writes in "the washington post" these conversations about racism on capitol hill and across the country aren't going anywhere. if anything, are expected to increase as americans move

toward the 2020 presidential election to determine at the direction they want the country to move in terms of racism and politics. there is a lot to pick apart from the hearing. let's start with what eugene was raising here. they are making light of this on "saturday night live" before break. >> yeah. >> this is a short, to the point sentence in michael cohen's opening statement. ben stiller can make fun of it, but it reverberate some. >> i don't think we saw republicans pushing back on the character picture michael cohen painted throughout the testimony. i think that says a lot. you can say a lot without saying a lot of words. that was certainly clear. the exchange with mark meadows, lynn patton who works at the trump org or used to was just an absurd exchange and showed how far gone the conversation has become because capitol hill folks and lawmakers are just unwilling to think critically about the subject and have a real conversation about it. the fact that you can tout a

black woman as congressman rashida tlaib as a prop, she called it and use it as evidence the president isn't racist. we should have a conversation about racism throughout the country in all of us and especially within lawmakers and any president for years to come including this current one. at the same time, we see how republicans love to ignore the question and they don't want to be bothered with it. that's a sense i get. a feeling of being burdened by the question that deserves to be asked and explored. like eugene wrote, this is something voters will be aware of especially with so many candidates of color, people of color running as democrats in 2020. >> there is another great piece out in the "new york times" about the exchange. the mark meadows exchange. it's hard to say what's a bigger taboo in american politics, being a racist or calling someone one. >> mark meadows got to cry,

right? he was stumbling over the idea that he was pearl clutching that he would be considered racist. elijah cummings came to his rescue and said they were friends. he wanted to move on. white man in flames, worried he's a racist. >> bringing up the relative. >> nephews of color. >> bringing up the relatives, his good heart, he couldn't believe it was said to him. rashida tlaib didn't get an apology but she walked back what she said. i do think it is fascinating cohen started with mr. trump is a racist. it's amazing to me. being a racist is not a crime. unless you are discriminating in the workplace. which we know from omarosa and others he also does do. by starting with that, i think -- and i don't want to be a broken record, but i think michael cohen was saying we, i signed on with someone who violates my personal codes.

he cited the fact, even though he wasn't talking about trump's antisemitism cited the fact that he's the son of someone who was a victim of a racist genocide. the holocaust is another trope like racism that gets thrown around. michael cohen grew up in long island surrounded by holocaust survivors. what he said back to the lynn patton stage craft with mark meadows, when he said lynn powell worked for trump and because she's from birmingham, alabama, he didn't mention her race. she would never work for a racist because she's from birmingham, alabama. i thought michael cohen won the exchange with a brilliant zinger which was something like as should i not have. it was like kind of elegant. as should i not have as the son of a holocaust survivor. that was great. >> i want to ask you about the instant pot of politics where the pressure was building.

you had this exchange, the remark. all of this taking place within the confines of a congressional hearing. >> if we are having the debate about whether someone is racist or not it's the wrong debate to be having, absolutely. because we have allowed over time this conversation to be about racists and nonracists. if you are that thing, okay, if you are racist, no other good person that pointed. started to get away from any sort of acknowledgment of racist acts and deeds. if you remember a few years ago governor powell of maine goes on a tirade. leaves a voicemail for a reporter and says you called me the worst thing you could have called me. he talked about women getting impregnated by black thugs. the mere use of the word racist was the problem. the president does and says bad things about race.

whether you call him a racist or not, not my problem. >> last word to you. >> if it's true 60% of americans think he's a racist and 46% give him approval at least 6% of americans are consciously saying aapprove of this racist. the reason it doesn't hurt him politically is a lot of people in his base feel they have unfairly been called a racist and therefore they are identifying with a person who fairly or unfairly has been called a racist. but the base isn't half of the electorate. the last thing is kudos to elijah cummings for keeping an eye on the ball. the hearing is about cohen, misdeeds and he didn't let it become a conversation on race. that must have been hard for him. again, he did a great job as chairman in that moment. >> appreciate it. my thanks to jeff bennett as well. next hour, congressman can khana talks about michael cohen's return to capitol hill next week. out michael cohen's return to capitol hill next week eartburn hits, fight back fast with tums smoothies.

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that does it for me. thank you very much for watching. "a.m. joy" starts now. there is no collusion. so now they go and morph into, let's inspect every deal he's ever done. we are going to go into his finances. we are going to check his deals. we're going to check -- these people are sick. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." after another bad week in his unprecedented presidency donald trump returned to his comfort