[ sighing ] ♪ oh my momma she gave me ♪ these feathered breaths ♪ ♪ oh my momma check in from afar with remote access. and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store, call, or go online today. that's a wrap for this hour. i'll see you all again at noon eastern. stay where you are. it's time kwrfor "up" with davi gura. >> this is "up." jon fortt sentenced to just 47

months in prison, a fifth of what prosecutors wanted. as he prepares to face another judge in washington, president trump's former campaign chairman may be holding out hope this could be moot. >> i feel very padly for paul manafort. >> are you ruling out a pardon for him? >> i don't even discuss it. >> the schedule on capitol hill is filling up, and a leading lawmaker says there is evidence is the president obstructed justice. that's left some democrats wondering what's the holdup? >> you can't impeach somebody that's doing a great job. that's the way i view it. >> presidential candidate elizabeth warren was taking on billionaires and the big banks and is now targeting big tech. >> google. >> too big. >> facebook. >> too big. >> mark zuckerberg. >> powerful. >> donald trump's fifth communications director has

called it quits. life in washington was reportedly too isolating. >> so bill shiny is going to be moving over to trump's campaign re-election headquarters, so he's moving to moscow. >> up first this morning, another court appearance for paul p manafort, president trump's former campaign chairman back in court wednesday in washington, d.c. judge amy berman jackson could add as many as ten years to his sentence for lying to spuecial counsel robert mueller and his team. another case for tax evasion and bank fraud. the last two years have been the most difficult years for my family and i he said to judge. to say that i feel humiliated and ashamed would be a gross understatement. i ask for your compassion. i know it's my conduct that has brought me here. that judge sentenced paul manafort to 47 months in prison even though prosecutors had asked for the federal sentencing

guidelines, 19 to 24 years. according to "the new york times," judge ellis hat predicted some pushback but he may have expected how his decision reraesh vverberate aro nation. what's fueling the conflagration, the huge disparities in the u.s. criminal justice system. >> the american people would be justified in peeling that there has been some miscarriage of justice here. >> we have a criminal justice system that treats you better if you're rich and guilty than if you're poor and innocent. >> it's an extraordinarily lenient sentence in light of the extent and scope of mr mr. manafort's criminality. it just shows there's a lot of power vested in the hands of judgments. the sentence says more about judge ellis than paul manafort. >> this tweet from scott, my client yesterday was offered 36 to 72 months in prison for stealing $100 worth of quarters

from a residential laundry room. up with me this morning, an assistant professor at public policy at the kennedy school, former federal prosecutor, now an msnbc legal analyst, a regular contributor of opinion pieces to the new york times and the future of warfel low at new america, and a former deputy assistant secretary of state. dple glen, let me start with you. what happened? we're hearing a lot of people saying this was a miscarriage of justice. >> it was. i was on set when they announced the sentence. >> you were in the eight box. >> and it figuratively knocked the wind out of me. this is not about the mueller team asking for a draconian sentence. we have to take a step back and look at the guidelines commission. the guidelines commission is made up of former prosecutors, former defense attorneys, retired judges, a lot of deep thinkers. i was never invited to join the

commission. but these are people who spend a lot of time trying to come up with uniform fair, just guidelines for sentencing criminal offenders. what those people came up with was that taking paul manafort's background, taking the crimes he committed, and taking other relevant conduct, he should get between 19 and 24 years. that's why that sentencing range is not a product of mueller overreaching, it's a product of this independent committee coming up with what they have found is an appropriate sentence. and then for ellis to say no, 47 months, after ellis said, sir, i find that you're not remorseful, that you never really took responsibility for your crimes, and i find that you didn't really help the mueller team the way you contractually promised you would for ellis to throw all that out and give this kind of an extraordinarily lenient sentence is plain and simple a

miscarriage of justice. octoberively, it's a miscarriage of justice. >> jill, i want to get your reaction to this. there's been so much focus on this judge, reagan appointee, doesn't like special counsels as a whole so he's not especially keen about this investigation as well. do you see this as an outlier or when you look at prosecutionings for white collar crime, is it something that's in line with what we see? >> this case is certainly an outlier. 4 out of 5 cases like this, criminal cases, the sentences the judge hands down are in line with the sentencing guidelines. that said, i think there are a couple of things going on here. i think it's really crucial to point to those disparitiedispar the answer is not to bring all of our sentences up to be incredibly harsh, i think incredibly kind of overreaching sentences that are handed down to people of color, to poor people. i think the answer instead is can we make all of our sentencing a little bit more lenient? i think it would be a good thing if people of color, the foopoor

people convicted of stealing $100 worth of quarters saw lenient sentences. the issue is less should we have thrown the book at manafort and really why are we throwing the back at other people and can we look at these guidelines and say they're overwhelmingly too harsh. the manafort case is good in that it illustrates this disparity, but i'm not sure we should be saying let's be more harsh to white collar criminals but instead focusing on the poor, the vulnerable, people of color who really do bear the overwhelming burden of our expansive and overreaching criminal justice system. >> leah, all of this ended the way i thought it might in that from the beginning this has been a situation focused on disparity. from the moment they opened paul manafort's closet and took out the tens of thousands of dollars

worth of suits, we were operating in rarefied space and seemed beyond the normal outside what we considered to be the norm. in that sense, what does it say about the way this country is stratified today? >> one of the things we've seen historically and even with the president and paul manafort, he's understood the way the system has worked and has taken advantage of this. >> expertly. >> kind of in an extraordinary way. i mean, there's that line that hits on it from the judge, right, you've led a relatively blameless life, which is -- >> my new memoir. >> which is outrageous, but it captures exactly the way in which, i mean, manafort has exploited these systems, looked for loopholes, has gotten around these things where he's been engaged in all kinds of criminal enterprise, bad behavior, unethical behavior, illegal behavior, and has not paid the price. sentencing disparities aren't necessarily just in terms of,

you know, white collar crime versus all kind of other crime, but we see racial disparities within white collar crime as well. so there have been a couple great points about how is kwame kilpatrick's sentence, how are they on average, people of color receive 10% harsher sentences in terms of white collar crime, so we're talking about a broken criminal justice system, but we're talking about one within white collar crime in which people to color are being disproportionately punished at a higher rate. this is something that paul manafort has taken advantage of his entire life and one he seems to be benefitting from now. >> i want your sense of what happens on wednesday when he moves to another courtroom, has an opportunity to say his piece yet again. this is not a ray again appointed judge. this is something different and you have to look at these two in complement. what does what happened this past week say about what might happen this coming week? >> interesting as a layman, a

nonlawyer -- >> man leading an otherwise blameless life. >> relatively. to see how big of a difference it makes with judges. the downside of the risk that donald trump has, he stands on the lawn and he's beating his chest about he only got four years, these judges have had very different approaches. mike flynn's judge said why wasn't treason on the table. you have the federal judge who was hearing the case on whether the special counsel was -- whether his bounds or just the legality of it and they said absolutely. so while this might be a win for the white house, it might only be for 72 hours like you were saying until he gets another ten years. just one thing a little different than jill. i think you can have both in that the quarter, $100 quarter person should have a lower but manafort should also have a higher. i think it's a little strange also to look at the totality of what he's done and not think it's higher 10, 15 years, but it

might turn out to be that whenever individual judge adds on to it. >> so he goes into judge jackson's courtroom this week. she could give him ten years' time if she goes by the sentencing guidelines. the judge in virginia declined to say whether these could be served concurrently. what's the calculus she'll be walking through when she decides to sentence him? >> i'm sure we like to thigh v think of these judges as neutral arbiters of the law. that is not how this works. i would imagine she's also been watching this backlash, that she understands that there is a sense that judges who are also, you know, relative to the rest of the population wealthy, educated, fairly privileged, tend to kind of look out for their own in the courtroom. i would guess that she would add some time to his sentence, just give b that kind of broad understanding that she will face a similar backlash if not, but it's quite hard to say. you know, look, i think the sort of independence that american

judges have is quite important. i think it's crucial that judges are able to hand down sentences that are below the sentencing guidelines. i think we saw this sort of terrible effects that mandatory minimums vld across the country, so what i'm hoping doesn't come out of this conversation is a demand for across-the-board regulation, the same way that mandatory minimums came out of not conversations like this but similar conversations around crime and its negative impacts more generally. so i think, you know, sort of the judge aside, in terms of how we're discussing this question, in terms of what we're demanding going forward, i think, you know, felipe makes a good point that a focus on perhaps higher penalties for white collar criminals, great, we can do that, but i think much more urgent, much more important is looking at how, yeah, expansive and damaging our current penalties are in trying to make those more lenient, more forgiving, and offer a bit more grace for the many folks who are incars rated for long periods of

time for having done little wrong. >> also might come down to how much time judge berman spends on twitter. >> coming up, the high price of loyalty. the president's ailds working the phone, threatening any gop lawmaker who may vote against him and getting one outspoken campaign strategist fired off a state campaign. that strategist joins us next. e that we have been getting. being a usaa member, because of my service in the military, you pass that on to my kids. something that makes me happy. being able to pass down usaa to my girls means a lot to both of us. he's passing part of his heritage of being in the military. we're the edsons. my name is roger zapata. we're the tinch family, and we are usaa members for life. to begin your legacy, get an insurance quote today. britbox would like to say...sh style, "i'm so sorry" "please allow me to apologize" "sorry dear" "oh, i'm so sorry" for being irresistibly bingeable.

"sorry about that darling" "sorry" and being the biggest streaming collection of british tv ever... now home to the uk's most watched detective. "dci vera stanhope" streaming same day as the uk. "well, well, well" escape to britbox. start your free trial today at britbox.com guys do whatever it takes to deal with shave irritation. so, we re-imagined the razor with the new gillette skinguard.

it has a unique guard between the blades. that's designed to reduce irritation during the shave. because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. the best a man can get. gillette. why are all these business owners so excited? we're going to comcast. it's ahead of the game, ahead of the curve. comcast business is for me. it's switch and save days at comcast business.

right now, get fast, reliable internet for $49.95 a month and save $600 a year. just one more way we take your business beyond. but hurry, switch and save days ends april 7th. i can't wait to go home and tell everyone about it. i just wanna get it right now. guess what i'm gonna do. (laughing) call today. comcast business. beyond fast. i need loyalty and i said,

you will always get honesty from me, and he paused, and then he said, honest loyalty, as if he was proposing some compromise or a deal. >> this is classic kind of criminal enterprise behavior, right. you have a strong leader who rules by force of will and personality, who demands unquestioned loyalty from those people around him. >> which do you think is more important, loyalty or the truth? >> i don't think it's a binary choice. >> this week senators vote on a resolution to nullify president trump's emergency declaration. once again, president trump is demanding loyalty from republicans. undecided senators have received calls from the white house and the message according to one of the senators is clear, "the washington post" reports, trump is taking names and noticing who opposes him, particularly if he were running for reelection next we year. senator bernie sanders pledging

allegiance this week, signing a pledge that reads in for the e part, "i am a member of the democratic party." back in 2016, there was some concern senator sanders might run as a third-party candidate for president. you might recall the republican party had similar concerns do g during that election cycle. >> i will be totally pledging my allegiance to the republican party and the conservative principles for which it stands. >> we have seen over the course of this administration men and women blackballed publicly for signaling their opposition to president trump's policies. it was hard if not impossible for them to get jobs in government, but it also happened out of the spotlight. one incident described in the daily beast shows how much this white house prizes petty vengeance over thoughtful political strategy. rick tyler hasn't been shy about criticizing the president after he signed onto a campaign in mississippi, the candidate for

which he was working got a phone call from the white house and the thrust was this -- drop rick tyler or the president is going to back your opponent. well, rick tyler and the candidate parted ways, and president trump ended up backing the other candidate anyway. so much for loyalty. rick tyler joining us now from washd. rick, a lot stands out in this piece in "the daily beast." one line in it is a quote from you. "there is no guiding philosophy except loyalty to trump. he has destroyed the republican party. it's never coming back." let's used what happened to you to talk a bit about the way the notion of loyalty in politics has changed in this trump's washington. >> i think it's ironic coming from donald trump because donald trump is demanding loyalty from republicans when he's never shown loyalty to the republican party. for most of his life he wasn't a republican. back to the first debate, one of the first questions asked was will you pledge loyalty to the republican nominee, donald trump, was the only person that raised his hand to say he would

not swa irto that. so this man has no loyalty. loyalty, we like to think, hopefully, but it should work both ways. you're loyal to a person and they are loyal to you. it's very difficult to have loyalty to someone who is not loyal to you. you see this repeatedly with trump. michael cohen is a good example of that, but there are many more. i've always been loyal to all the candidates that i've worked for. i don't write tell-all books about people that i've worked for and i will continue to be loyal, but i would expect the same from donald trump to the republican party, which is absent. >> felipe, i think people would say you've been loyal to the clintons. worked with them for a very long time. is there a sense that the notion of political loyalty has changed in these last two years? >> i don't think so, unless it's someone you shouldn't be loyal to. i have been loyal and i'm proud of that, but it's been based on seeing how senator clinton does

her job. if you have to ask someone to be loyal to you, there's something wrong there. hillary clinton has never said, you know, i want you to cut your finger and shed some blood for me. >> breaking news here. >> she hasn't had to because i've wanted -- i believe in what she has stood for and what she's been trying to do. i've been honored to be part of it. that and it's been loyalty is also when things are bad. it's easy to be loyal when things are good. if president trump's got to walk around asking the fbi director and republican senators and rick tyler and never trumpers on and on to be loyal, i think he ought to take a look in the mirror and realize it's not just republicans. he's not loyal to anyone. he's going to dial out one of his kids when it comes to his sentencing. >> lee, you watched that campaign back in 2015 and 2016, and many bizarre moments but one of them was at these rallies where donald trump would ask members of the audience to raise their hands and swear an oath to supporting him in the election.

it is something that seems like he fixates on in particular. >> that's o >> that's because that's how he's run his entire career and his life, like he's a mafia dog. so, you know, we talk about maybe there's not a blood oath you have to take, but there is, you know, a question of will you be loyal to me and are you willing to go to the lengths that are necessary to be loyal to me, to be loyal to my enterprise, to be loyal to, you know, this -- the power dynamic that's going on here. so we saw that very clearly with michael cohen and with his testimony in front of congress. we've seen that in terms of, you know, his former employees who are now, who have gone to the dark side, who have turned on him, somebody like omarosa, who explicitly says loyalty is the driver of everything in his universe. so, you know, we've had presidents before who have been petty. we have had presidents who have asked for loyalty and different

circumstances. but we haven't had a level of this that is rapidly approaching cult-like status in terms of, you know, demands for loyalty and how you run the entire enterprise. >> rick tyler, what explains the female ti -- fealty in this cas? threatening those cominging up for re-election here in the next cycle. what explains their willingness to pledge loyalty to a person versus the party? >> weakness. look, people think of any politicians or members of congress and there are a few, but there are very few, we call them leaders. they're not leaders. they're followers. they will move wherever their districts tell them to move, and that's the way the founders designed it. what they're afraid of is that donald trump will pick a fight with them, particularly in districts that have a high approval of donald trump, and donald trump will turn against

them and he will make it very difficult for them to win, and that has been the case in a lot of congressional districts and some senate seats around the country where donald trump's endorsement means, you know, win or lose for the candidate. >> i'll ask you lastly, rick, where this leaves you as somebody who is loyal to a party as a party goes through all these undulations, becomes closely associated with a person, how do you see yourself vis-a-vis the party now and looking ahead? i'm struck by so many republicans who have criticized the president, criticized the way things are, yet i wonder what happens next, what your hope is for what happens next. >> well, look, first of all, david, i was honored to be black balled by the trump white house. you'd think they have better things to do. look, leaders emerge in crisis, and donald trump is not a leader. he has to demand loyalty because he's a leader and doesn't know how to engender loyalty. leaders emerge as well.

we don't always predict who we are. you could see that with barack obama. they'll be an opposition party to the democratic party and it won't be the republican party because the republican party sold its soul to a personality and not a set of principles. >> another aspect to this is that while trump is threatening republicans, the republican leadership, both in the form of house minority leader mccarthy and senate majority leader mcconnell, are releasing their members to vote against donald trump for political purposes. so he's threatening them. mcconnell is giving them the high sign to do what you need to do because what's the difference? it's going to go down and pass. and someone's not talking to someone there, but they all know that donald trump can steal their seat. >> rick tyler, thank you very much. appreciate you joining us this morning. >> thank you. this too shall pass. >> on that note, up ahead, when is the right time for nancy

pelosi to sit todown with her t have an uncomfortable conversation with her caucus? the impeachment talk. and there's always home for parole. >> but maybe he can convince a pa road board to let him out early if he's a smooth talker. >> so to be clear, mr. trump has no financial relationships with any russian oligarchs. >> that's what he said. that's what our position is. >> he's going tock in there a long time.

more than half of our community have discovered their irish roots. which means your smiling eyes, might be irish too. order ancestrydna, and find the surprises in you. just $59 through march 18th. get your kit today.

well, you can't impeach somebody that's doing a great job. that's the way i view it. we talked about that today. i said why don't you use this for impeachment, and nancy said we're not looking to impeach you. i said that's good, nancy. that's good. >> one side of the story. since the earliest days of this administration, democrats have been sounding the alarm about assaults on the rule of law. this week the chairman of the house judiciary committee upped the ante. >> do you think the president obstructed justice? >> yes, i do. it's very clear that the president obstructed justice.

>> that's led to impeachment in the past, so given that, what's the holdup? 64% of respondents to a recent quinnipiac poll said donald trump committed crimes before he became the president. 45% think he committed crimes while he has been in the white house. and some are tired of waiting. >> if we don't hold impeachment proceedings today, start them today and hold him accountable to following the united states constitution, think about that. this is not going to be the last person that tries to get away with this. >> congresswoman promises to introduce a resolution calling for impeachment, but time may be running out as "the new york times" points out the window to open an impeachment inquiry may be closing fast. the 2020 election year, even democrats would most likely say the american people should decide mr. trump's fate at the polls and it doesn't seem like there's much unanimity in the caucus. >> to bring impeachment proceedings already presupposes you've reached a threshold of

evidence that justifies that very grave action by the congress. >> impeachment is premature at this moment. >> impeachment is a divisive issue in our country. >> glen kershaw, i want to start with you and get your perspective on this. we've talked a lot about the legal going-ones here, when you move that to the capitol and it turns to obstruction of justice, tunds the calculus the democrats are wrestling with at this point? >> it's let's wait for the mueller report because that will give us everything we need and then some, many believe. i think we should be going on a dual track. i think the president has committed high crimes and misdemeanors at an alarming rate. i mean, there are too many to catalog, but, you know, when you talk about we've got now him inviting the russians into the oval office and celebrating the firing of comey because the pressure is off, we don't have to worry about the nutjob

anymore. you've got him we' in recent days granting security clearances to the unsecure, his own kids. >> it's not binary to steal a phrase from sean spicer. >> it goes on and on and on. one of the most alarming that's gotten buried and i'm not sure how is that andy mccabe said on one occasion during an oval office briefing when they were discussing the threat that north korea posed to us by way of their ballistic missiles program, trump said i spoke to putin about it, all is good, we're safe, no threat from north korea. how is that not sort of siding with an adversary over your own intelligence community? i mean, it's a high crimes and misdemeanors jamboree at this point. there's so much, and i think we're doing a disservice to the american people by not saying we will not tolerate it, we're not going to wait for somebody else to announce the results of their findings in order to help do our dirty work. this is dirty work that must be done because the house needs to be cleaned. >> jill, i saw you nodding a bit. i have a question about the degree to which nancy pelosi can patiently stand by as these

conversations continue on the periphery. i think there is a lot of agreement that investigations-wise, there's coordination, those proceeding apace. how long can it continue with these conversations on the sidelines before it begins to distract from that? >> i think not much longer. i think the way that pelosi is playing this, it makes sense. i think she's trying to wait out the mueller report. i think she's trying to get a sense of what the american people are pushing for, what congress people are pushing for. but at some point she's going to have to lean on this, and i think we're rapidly approaching that point. i think most even sort of casual observers of the trump administration can see from his tweets alone that he's actively trying to obstruct justice. i think it's very difficult to not look at the totality of what this administration has done, what he has done, and not conclude that there is at least potentially some very serious wrongdoing. and i think assuming that mueller is kind of, you know, the great white savior that's going to come and tell us the entire story of donald trump, i think is putting sort of not too

much faith in him but is really a much more expansive view of what his investigation is actually about than the kind of constraints within which he's operating, which is why the house really needs to lean on this and use their fact-finding and investigative power to tell the full story of what this president has done, what this administration has done, and figure out whether he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors and whether he's really compromised this office and the american people. >> felipe, somebody who's led on this is maxine waters, the chairman of the house financial services committee. her recent tweet, obstruction of justice reality show, firing comey, sending coded messages to manafort and others that he has power to pardon, lying about trump tower meeting, threatening cohen's in-laws. she's been in congress a long while, in a position of power, leading the financial services committee, could you see this moving to a vote? are democrats averse to having that vote? how risky is that at this point?

>> that's the fear. i think thomas jefferson and alexander hamilton are looking down at us saying what the hell are you people waiting for? what do you think we put it in the constitution for? and there's an issue -- it's taken at least to this point because the republicans held both sides of congress and they've been complicit in covering up for donald trump, at this point, you know, i think somewhere between i agree with glen about the dual track. i think the reality is, six months ago, was this right, no, is this right for tomorrow, maybe, but the truth of the matter is we're having this conversation in six months because the democratic leadership not only in the form of speaker pelosi but probably chuck sheemer eschumer on the e is going to say we don't have the votes. look what happened in '98. it went bad for the republicans. first of all, you don't know you don't have the votes. that sounds naive but donald trump occasionally really antagonizes the republicans in the senate. and second of all, i just don't agree with the notion that 98

backfired on the republicans. how did that happen? they held congress in 1998 on both sides. george bush went on to win for two terms. they held congress until 2006, and then fast forward 20 years, we're having a conversation about you can't use impeachment because it's politicized. so they've really i think done a great job of neutering the one thing we have, and now you're looking at donald trump saying he might not respect a defeat in 2020, might not accept it, impeachment might be the only thing we have to deal with this situation, and it shouldn't be such a four-letter word. >> coming up here, clearance insecurity. according to a new report, sbun inside the white house linked documents to a house committee related to jared kushner's security clearance, documents the administration did not want lawmakers to see. ther around the corner? or could it turn out differently? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis.

eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot... almost 98 percent of patients on eliquis didn't experience another. ...and eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis is fda approved and has both. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily... and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. what's around the corner could be surprising. ask your doctor about eliquis. reach her health goals! i'm in! but first... shelfie! the great-tasting nutrition of ensure. with up to 30 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals!

ensure. for strength and energy. ensure. raquen... rakutahn... rakooten... ♪ rakuten oh! is this my money? whoaaah! haha! rakuten ♪ ahhh! rakuten! if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, every day can begin with flakes. it's a reminder of your struggles with psoriasis.

but what if your psoriasis symptoms didn't follow you around? that's why there's ilumya. with just 2 doses, a majority of people were clear or almost clear. and over time, even more people were clear or almost clear. all with dosing 4 times a year... after 2 initial doses. plus, ilumya was shown to have similar risks of infections compared to placebo. don't use if you are allergic to ilumya or any of its ingredients. before starting treatment, your doctor should check for tuberculosis and infections. after checking there is no need for routine lab monitoring unless your doctor advises it. ilumya may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms, or if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. this could be your chance to leave your psoriasis symptoms behind. ask your doctor for ilumya today, for a clearer tomorrow.

real quickly, i just want to thank you for bringing contribution to our buffet this morning. >> i thought we would up our game and we've had six months of doughnut holes piling up. >> yeah, right. >> the problem is there are 50 and we each have to eat ten. we're behind our pace. >> we'll get there before the end of the show. all right. the first fam hi has a problem security clearances. it's dogged jared kushner from day one, and there is new scrutiny on his wife and ivanka

trump. the president called in the national intelligence director to provide them with more information, after a troubling report last week that president trump overruled advisers and career officials who recommended against a high level clearance for kushner. someone inside the white house has leaked a detailed time line of how the clearances were approved and who made the final call to congress. the white house insists the president has the authority to make the final call on clearance, but there are two big issues here. one being the lies and contradictions about what the president did or didn't do, and, two, jared kushner's troubling track record. the daily beast reports the president's son-in-law left embassy staffers in the dark when he met with the saudi crown prince in riyadh last week. he famously omitted more than 100 foreign contacts in applying for his clearance, russia's then ambassador and the head of a state-run russian bank. that latter meeting is emerging as a key moment in what democrats allege was a much larger russian effort to exert

influence over trump's ineshg rer circle as the president-ele president-elect's team prepared to take office in late 2016. let's start with this piece here. we've seen all the leaks to journalists. this is a leak to congress. the house oversight committee saying we asked for these officially, the white house came back and said we're not giving you these documents and they've had the documents for at a month's time. >> so this is a leaking white house. we've seen this pretty steady stream of leaks. we've seen a pretty steady stream of people who are willing not to go on record but to anonymously kind of give insight into what's going on. i think part of this comes out of a real concern for the way that the white house is being run. so on the one hand, you have somebody who is coming into office, who has absolutely no understanding of how government works and who has spent his entire life in the private realm, but also who has no care, who's a complete disregard for how government works or how public service works.

so we're dealing with that. on the other hand, we're also dealing with someone who has run his entire business and his entire private kind of goals as a criminal enterprise. so with a complete disregard for democracy, for rule of law, for ethics. and so this is what's coming out. this is what these reports are exposing. and i think in part, you know, what we're seeing is that, you know, this is an organization that essentially is saying the rules don't apply to us and that there are people within the white house who are deeply concerned about that and who are ready to blow the whistle. >> flen, yglen, you talked aboua moment ago, as you look at all of this we've seen over the last two year, why is it so important, why is it such a pivotal point knowing what happened regard to these security clearances? >> security clearances really matter and they shouldn't be given out like party gifts once somebody takes a position at the white house, particularly

somebody that the intelligence community has decided are unworthy of security clearances. when i was in the army, the department of defense did my background check, the fbi did it. they went back as far as my second grade school teacher to find out -- there are two important principles at work when we conduct security clearance investigations. one, they want to make sure, the government wants to make sure you are who you say you are. you didn't create a fictitious back story. that's why they go, did you have glen as a student in second grade? yes, i did. check that box. the other is not that we believe all these people are evil or are going to sell out our country, but we need to know what the pressure points are on these people. for example, did somebody take a multimillion-dollar loan from an overseas bank that is of dubious, you know, legality or -- we need to know who out in the real world can put pressure on people who are now inside the government doing the public's

work, because they might not intend to be compromised, they might not intend to set up the government, but you know what, if somebody can pressure you, you may start to think, is it really going to matter that much if i give this confidential federal report out to a foreign bank, a foreign agency, a foreign entity? so, i mean, these things really matter with respect to who we entrust to do the public's work. >> talking about pressure points, acupuncturist would have his or her hands full when you hook at ivanka and jared kushner in particular. i mean, the list of things that are worrisome, again, we don't know the specifics about what held up the clearance or what gave people pause, but that list can lead one to infer that there was a lot at play here. >> yeah. we can make some educated guesses about what held up their clearances. the president does have the power to sort of go above the heads of the folks whose job it is to make these determinations, but if the president actually believes this was a fair decision, he needs to be

transparent about it. if there's nothing to be ashamed of or worried about, why not tell the american people here's why this was the decision that was made around jared's clearance and ivanka's clearance. what's obvious with trump, we discussed earlier, he prizes loyalty above all this and in kind of this mafia don well that isn't about telling the truth, it isn't about positioning him to even do a good job, it's certainly not about comp tebbs, not about protecting the american people or the american public, it is solely about consolidating power in one man, which is why he surrounds himself with family members, with these kind of lackeys that are just going to do his bidding. what we're seeing now is the terrible and broad downsides of that is that he puts people not only unqualified into positions of power but also potentially deeply compromise american security. i am hoping like glen ta that is a story that is a major linchpin in really shifting perhaps

preesmt proceedings, but what happens with this administration. >> when we come back here, first it was big banks. now elizabeth warren is taking aim at big tech, unveiling a controversial plan to break up companies like amazon, google, and face book. how would it work and what would it mean for you, the consumer? everyone's got to listen to mom. when it comes to reducing the sugar in your family's diet, coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all.

smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. balanceus.org

guys do whatever it takes to deal with shave irritation. so, we re-imagined the razor with the new gillette skinguard. it has a unique guard between the blades. that's designed to reduce irritation during the shave.

because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. the best a man can get. gillette.

amazon -- >> too big. google. >> too big. >> facebook. >> too big. >> mark zuckerberg. >> too -- powerful. and that's really the point of the too bigs. they've got too much power. >> senator elizabeth warren detailing her new plan to take of some of the world's largest companies. they dominate markets, chew up competitors and drive the consumer experience. she told ari, we've got to change that. senator warren wants new restriction owes some of the biggest platforms. glenn, let me turn to you first. there has been a focus on technology. it's going be an issue as this

goes on from a privacy perfect speculative. what can be done at this point? elizabeth warren talking about facebook's acquisition of instagram. is that stuff pie in the sky? can she do anything about how these companies have gotten so big? >> probably not. i watched that interview last night and frankly, i know part of us wants to cheer along with that because there really is no mom and pop marketplace any more. and i think that is to the detriment for the people of our country. some of what we hear coming out of -- i don't want to single out facebook. it's scary about what they collect but say and then how they can exploit it, even if they're not trying to exploded it in a me ferrous way.

it's still ex employ tail. i applauds elizabeth warren for what she's trying to take on. >> sth a lengthy policy proposal based on a yale article proposal. and of all of them thus far, it seems like senator warren has been ahead in doing that. >> sure. and i think the points is not necessarily whether she can do this, but is she putting out big ideas? and the idea of at least regulating or at least having some oversight on to these tech giants, it's an idea that is incredibly popular among the american people, right? we saw this in terms of the hearings around facebook, we saw this in terms of the reports that have been released about russian hacking or russian influence across organizations.

we know this about daes collection and we see that it's popular not just on the left, but also on the right. so i think part of what she's trying to do is to put these big ideas out here and say, look, i want to take this on. granted, this might not actually work, but i am addressing an issue that i see out there in the public and i'm going to do it in concrete ways. i'm going to give you an agenda. i'm going to give you a plan. >> the gap between silicon valley and washington is large geographical and has been in understanding, as well. are we seeing that narrow somewhat? in light of the fact that you have people out there who profess to know a thing or two about democracy and as we've seen, that is far from the case. >> silicone valley has been trying their patience for the last several years. you have amazon.

i'm not sure why senator warren doesn't like that they bought whole foods. i like amazon the way it is. facebook is its own problem. facebook has abused the power that she is pointing out, that mark zuckerberg has vested in himself. and the problem is, they don't know what they are. they try to live up to being a media company, but then they screw that up. sometimes they try just being a social connection and they screw that up. now he's saying privacy, people just giving their -- ting problem with facebook is they've lost control of their own platform and they need to be regulated no difference than, say, a table carrier or telecommunications company. >> we're going to leave it there. thank you all for joining me. reset your clocks, get up with us tomorrow morning at 8:00. elie will join me along with

others tomorrow on "up" at 8:00 eastern time. the pardon dangle between the president's lawyers and witnesses and robert mueller's investigation. the president now saying michael cohen asked him for one directly. that's next. cohen asked him for one directly that's next. they're made in freezing cold... ...blazing heat, and knee-deep mud. it takes hours... ...days, years of hard work to make a legend. and this is the one we make. built to go anywhere, do anything and bring you home. legends aren't born, ...they're made.

and our shirts from custom ink help bring us together. we just upload our logo, and if we have any questions, customer service is there to help. - [male] custom ink has hundreds of products to help you look and feel like a team. get started today at customink.com. crimes and lies, the ugly

break-up between president trump and his soon to be imprisoned former fixer, michael cohen. at issue now is the president's power to pardon. michael cohen told lawmakers it was something he never discussed. >> michael cohen lied about the pardon. that was a stone-cold lie. he's lied about a lot of things, but when he lied about the pardon, that was really a lie. and he knew all about pardons. his lawyer said that they went to my lawyers and asked for pardons. and i can go a step above that, but i won't go do it now. >> the president did go a step above that, lob ago bomb on twitter, his first public admission a pardon was discussed. the president claim that cohen directly asked for one of them. that prompted michael cohen to respond, also on twitter, calling the president's claims just another set of lies and suggesting the president apologize for his dirty deeds to karen mcdougall and stephanie

clifford. the president's power to pardon is central in the saga surrounding paul manafort who was sentenced to 47 months in prison. this week, that sentence could be extended. another judge in washington could send manafort to prison for the remainder of his live. on his way to mar-a-lago friday, the president left his options open. i feel very badly for paul manafort. i think it's been a very, very tough time for him. i don't even discuss it. i have -- the only one discussing it is you. i haven't discussed it. >> the game of he said/he said prompted the ap to pose this question in the piece, in a production filled with unreliability narraters, who, if anyone, can be trusted? up with me this hour is william cohen, sofia nelson, mara gay and eugene scott.

sofia, help us parse what we heard there. how big a deal of in whether this was asked for directly spp. >> as you know, michael cohen decided to sue donald trump for unpaid legal fees. this was clearly a bad break-up between these two men. they were tight as can be for ten years. when somebody is in your corner and your court and they know everything about you, you should try to treat them well and trump did not. we all knew trump was going the flip at some point. i thought his testimony was compelling before the congressional oversight committee. i don't think he has a reason to lie at this point. so as lawyers, we try to figure out who is inherently believable and you kind of look at the factors. the president has a lot of reason to be untruthful because he wants to keep his office. michael cohen is going to jail,

however you parse this out. he's not going to get his sentenced y sentenced reduced, as i understand, so i think they're both unrufl men if we're going to be honest. but if you look at what cohen said before the congressional oversight committee, i thought it was pretty interesting stuff. >> if you can't believe anybody, who do you believe? >> you can't believe any one of them. i agree completely that michael cohen at this point -- i mean, he was a big, fat liar for a long time. i don't think he has any reason to lie at this point. donald trump has every reason to lie. we know often he lies. so i mean, he seems like he was just lying right there on the south lawn there. you know, i don't talk about pardons. i do talk about pardons. i mean, you're not supposed to

pardon your friends, david, and donald trump has been very good about pardoning your friends. it's supposed to come generally speaking at the end of somebody's term. hopefully that would be, say, october, november of 2020. but, unfortunately, he's been doing it along the way to help his friends. >> mara, on that point, we are seeing things that we haven't seen before. if you look at the end of the clinton administration, a lot of pardons then, obama administration, hundreds of pardons related to offense. it tends to happen that way. >> this is a different president. >> yes, it is. >> one thing to look out for is local offices like the southern district of new york who have an ability to charge the president and the characters around him and who may be able to actually bring charges that are not pardonable by the president, especially if they're on state

crimes. so that's something to look for, especially in new york where most of this cast of characters comes from. at the end of the day, michael cohen has no incentive to lie at this point. his story that he was now telling the american people, and while not hiding anything about his own conduct and apologizing for it, his narrative lines up with the facts of the larger narrative of what is going on which is that we have a major investigation that has yielded multiple convictions. close to the president of the united states. so only one of these men's stories is backed up by the facts. >> we see the notion of a pardon charging, as well. it's been this sort of coin of the realm. it's become this thing that you might seek out through the get out of jail free card.

he's introducing legislation to curb what a president may do. talk about that, fuld, the way this president sees a pardon and the way that he's charged our sense of what a presidential pardon can and should be. >> in terms of the larger conversations people on both sides of the i'll are having about criminal justice reform. there are a lot of americans who feel like there are people in this country who are getting away with things that they certainly should not be that are not in the best interest of citizens and they're very harmful to many americans and to people even beyond our country. and i think we're seeing that in this situation some of these characters really close to the president may be some of those individuals. we're seeing lots of other individuals having to save time, much harsher time than they probably should have to for crimes in situations that prams perhaps were not as harmful to the public good and it's really putting these 2020 candidates in a position to have conversations about how request we change this, how can we make this

country more justice for more individuals so we can prevent things like this from happening in the future where people who have so much power allow others to get away with things they should not. >> the optimist in me and the optimist in you looks at what happened to paul manafort this week and thinks maybe that will kick start this sentence. let's talk a bit about the manafort case. you have his lawyer coming out of that courtroom saying there was no collusion, parroting what the president has said. i guess implicitly, saying maybe the president might consider a pardon for his time. what did you make of that short sentence that the lawyer for paul manafort delivered? >> we could spend the whole show talking about privilege versus the people. and the reality is there's an african-american woman who served her time as a felon. she got out. she thought she could vote. she went to vote. she got sentenced to five years in jail. and i just saw that she lost her

appeal, correct? so five years because you thought you had paid your debt to society and you wanted to exercise your right as a citizen. manafort does everything he did and the judge says he's lived an otherwise great life and gives him four years. if you don't see a problem with that, mr. and mrs. america, we have a problem. that's number one. number two, i wanted to pick up on something else you said. michael cohen, another thing he said, david, that i thought was profound, he begged people, do not do what i did. do not be a sycophant]. >> directed that to republicans on the committee. >> absolutely did. and i think, again, he's in this place where when you're about to go to jail, you want redemption from your kids, from your family. they took away his legal

license. it's everything to us as attorneys. to your point, i think that the manafort sentencing puts a spotlight on who we are as america. we could get into the whole history of racial justice, injustice, sentencing in this country and we would take the whole show to talk about the difference in white collar crime versus other crimes and mostly white men are committing those white collar crimes. if you look at who is being convicted, etcetera, and they get these country club sentences and they go back to their lives and they do well. >> bill, you've spent your life in business. talk about that. i'm wording how much of what we saw in that was an anomaly. >> i don't think it's an anomaly. i think it's a corruption of the system. we'll see for the second sentence instead of 10 years, he'll get 20 years and there

will be a sense of balancing out. one of the things i've written a lot about, david, is what happened during the financial crisis and why nobody on wall street was held accountable. and that is the job of the u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york, you know, the supposedly great -- lion eyes, a wound -- >> he has a very good podcast. >> number one podcast in new york state, but didn't do his job as a u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york when it came to prosecuting the crime that's occurred on wall street that are easily documented and that have been coming out in droves ever since and it never happened. and i think this is all part of, unfortunately, a very bad continuum of where, literally, white collar criminals, most of whom are white, get away with quote/unquote metaphorical murder and other people, you know, who have a bag of marijuana go to jail for 20 years. >> there is a tension between

the system and institutions and individuals. we're seeing that for pardons, the pardon dangles. what can this president do for me and in the context of these two cases, let's look at paul manafort. one judge decided the sentence this week. next wednesday it will be a different judge. how do we reckon with that, just that one person can make such a difference here when it comes to the ramifications for these crimes? >> i mean, sure, there's luck in that sense, but i actually was angrier about the manafort sentencing than i've been about much in a very long time. because i just think it laid bare that the really painful history of criminal justice and how the criminal justice system has been used historically. and i think it really kind of exposed the injustice at the heart of the issue which is that it's not so much about the crime, it's about who we see as a criminal. and who we see as not a criminal, no matter what he or she does. and i thought a lot about the

16-year-old child who was accused of stealing a backpack, never actually convicted and spent three years on ryker's island in new york city and then went on to later take his own life because he was so trauma advertised and was found to not have stolen that backpack. so to see someone like manafort who went about undermining democracy to make his fortune and then later defrauded the american people of $30 million in taxes, be held as blameless was not only outrageous and a miscarriage of justice, but i think it was painful for a lot of us. >> when we come back here, conservative media has taken a term from pumping up the president's agenda to becoming a full blown propaganda machine. and it was a typo that caught the attention of stephen colbert this week. >> see if you notice the small typo. we tell people will now be subjected to the biggest display

of modern day mccathyism. yes. mccathy. very true. immortalized in the famous comic where she says, ack, socialists redistributed by chocolate. soc redistributed by chocolate i've always been amazed by what's next.

and still going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin... i want that too. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. what's next? reeling in a nice one. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden sign of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk

if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis, the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor if eliquis is what's next for you. i found a companyeans to who believes in me.rt. they look out for me. and they help me grow my career. at comcast it's my job to constantly monitor our network, prevent problems, and to help provide the most reliable service possible.

my name is tanya, i work at the network operations center for comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. welcome back. bill shine is leaving his role for staff communications to work

for president trump's 2020 campaign as a senior adviser. the "new york times" reporting as time wore on, it became clearer that mr. shine had not developed a close rip with mr. trump. the president frequently complained to other advisers that his news coverage had not improved. a departure puts president trump's relationship with fox news back in the spotlight following the publication of this article, is fox news now a propaganda machine for the president? rupert murdoch's embrace of trump may be a benefit business strategy, but as jane mayer notes in that piece, set by scandals, congressional hearings and talk of impeachment, fox has been both his shield and his sword. the white house and fox interact so seamlessly that it can be hard to determine which one is following the other's lead. when fox news hosts start defending the president, they lavish him praise. and he likes to return the

favor. >> laura has been great, laura ingram. >> america is back. it is shameful and bias that these presidential issues get such coverage. >> sean hannity has been a terrific supporter of what i do. >> president trump in less than two years has given power back to you and he as opened up freedom and liberty. >> sean handy, they've even gone on the campaign trail with president trump. >> and the one thing that has made and defined your presidency more than anything else, promises made, promises kept. >> this man is the tip of the spear who goes out there every day and fights for us. >> then there's that resolving door going round and round, a fox news employee as they've

landed jobs in the trump administration. they've now landed jobs with fox. there's hope hicks and there was until recently sebastian gorka, kimberly who left the network to chair a pro trump super pac. >> bill shine brought in eight months ago. yes, it's the fifth communications director, but he had the longest tenure at eight months time. what is your sense of what the president hoped to get by bringing him on board and why didn't it work out? >> obviously, he wanted somebody who had good tv production skills and somebody who is close to rupert. i think bill shine delivered on that. he did kind of reinvent how the president was seen in some unique ways. i don't think it's a consequence coincidence that bill shine is departing after the story in the new yorker. perhaps more to do with what is

happening at fox and the fact that it's getting pretty hot in the kitchen right now. you have the four senators who where he a letter about ethics concerns, about the fact that bill shine is getting paid by fox and drawing a white house salary and they're asking, hey, does this break some laws? is this something we should be looking into? you have congressional democrats also saying what happened with at&t and time warner in this merger, where are the communications between the white house and the justice department? that and the "new yorker" story had an anecdote from gary cohen who he was told by the president, block the deal and he says he didn't. we've confirmed that reporting. so that raises concerns about whether the president is doing things that help fox news and hinder at&t/time warner which owns krn, owns cnn, so a rival of fox. and then i'm hearing there are discussions about what happened with the southern district of new york's investigation into

fox news into intimidation of journalists, into the sexual harassment issues, that all happened under roger ales, but somehow mysteriously came to no conclusion. so did it go away? and if it did, is that something that should be looked at? i think bill shine's departure from the communications role at the white house perhaps has just as much to do with things going on at fox. >> i think sycophantic is a much better word of what's going on now. frankly, i feel really badly for the people at fox news who are trying to do their job as journalists. and there are some over there who are. but it's clear to get ahead there, you have to go along with being a trump sycophant. we've seen it with some of our forms colleagues at bloomberg news. we've seen it, i wrote a piece

about maria bartaromo. she went all in for trump and, frankly, ice disgusting and it's unprofessional. i would feel badly if i were having to be forced to do that. but, you know, if you have a mortgage, if you have kids, you do what you're supposed to do, unfortunately, to continue to keep your job. >> claire, there was this remarkable exchange at the deal book conference at the "new york times," andrew ross sorkin sat down and asked him how happy he is about all of this. and he seemed happy fo that fox news was offering something different. >> was he being forthright about that? >> that's not to say rupert isn't completely in charge, as well. but he did point out one thing that was interesting, i thought, that the majority of the ad revenue comes from what they do in the daytime, it comes from perhaps the real reporting

versus the opinion journalist which is a complete turn off for lots of advertisers. they don't want to be around very controversial opinion hosts. i thought that was kind of interesting. obviously, fox is not the only right wing news organization out there. there's chris roddy's news max and there's sinclair, all trying to get a piece of the president, trying to have him on air and gain ratings from that. >> martin, i want to ask you if there was a piece by susan glasser at the new yorker, she writes a letter and she focused this week on the lack of there being daily press briefings right now at the white house. not just at the white house, but we don't gate them from the state department to the same degree we get them in the past. that i gather is something bill shine wanted. your perspective on that, how this has altered our coverage. >> i think that the country is suffering in general from a lack of understanding about civics and government and how government works and how journalist works.

and i think that fox news is exhibit a. it's a constant frustration, to me, not just as a journalist, but also who has been -- by the way, i've been an opinion writer and i've been a news reporter. and so, you know, going about my day-to-day life when i talk to people who aren't in our industry, people will ask me, well, what's the difference between an editorial and an open he had? th op-ed? they don't know. the trump administration and fox news have taken advantage of that. i think it's one thing to have an opinion or to be conservative leaning or liberal leaning. that's all well and good. i think what's disturbing about fox news and bill shine and they long ago crossed the line between conservative journalist into propaganda. when you're no longer interested in the facts but you're interested in getting out your

pr propaganda message, you're not considered a journalist any more. >> let's talk about this fallout piece in "the new yorker." is it a good thing or the right thing for the dnc to do? >> that's not a good thing, but i get where they arrived at that conclusion based on everybody. fox has good journalists, brett bear, chris wallace, absolutely. but you're right, there's a difference between daytime and nighttime for some reason. it changes. number two, i think that what really bothers me, however, is what you said is right. we as americans don't have a fundamental understanding of democracy and how it really works. what our responsibilities are, what the first amendment is about, what a free press really does, why it matters. and we need to reeducate, i think, our young people, certainly, but the rest of us, you're right, even intelligent people don't understand basic, what a journalist really does

and what is the difference between a reporter, an editorialal and an opinion writer and they're different. but i think a line has been crossed. but fox has a very certain audience that's very pro trump. let's just be honest about it and the ratings gold is laura and tucker and those guys, again, people i know and like a personal level, but they've done completely off the chain on being -- they've crossed that line where the president is almost like his press people. and that's dangerous. when we come back, paul manafort get ago lenient sentence after what the judge said was a blameless live. that's next. was a blameless li.

that's next. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. you can barely feel. shouldn't mean going back to the doctoro just for a shot. with neulasta onpro patients get their day back...

to be with family, or just to sleep in. strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. in a key study neulasta reduced the risk of infection from 17% to 1%, a 94% decrease. neulasta onpro is designed to deliver neulasta the day after chemo and is used by most patients today. neulasta is for certain cancer patients receiving strong chemotherapy. do not take neulasta if you're allergic to it or neupogen (filgrastim). an incomplete dose could increase infection risk. ruptured spleen, sometimes fatal as well as serious lung problems, allergic reactions, kidney injuries and capillary leak syndrome have occurred. report abdominal or shoulder tip pain, trouble breathing or allergic reactions to your doctor right away. in patients with sickle cell disorders, serious, sometimes fatal crises can occur. the most common side effect is bone and muscle ache. ask your doctor about neulasta onpro. pay no more than $5 per dose with copay card.

i feel very badly for paul manafort. rink it's been a very, very tough time for him. president trump expressing some sympathy for paul manafort who got a lenient sentence this

week. 47 months in prison is way under the federal guidelines of 19 to 24 years. this week, judge ellis told the court, i think the sentencing range is excessive. manafort has been a good friend to others, a generous person. and he said paul manafort has lived an otherwise blameless life. that last sentence caught the eye of a reporter who has done extensive reporting on paul manafort. he tweeted the frayed otherwise blameless life has me hopping mad for an event and associations that might suggest paul manafort's life is not otherwise blameless. he made millions lobbying for brutal and kruptd dictators, he had the nickname the torturer's lobby because it took in such large sums of money from

dictators who hired paul mant na fo -- manafort to do their l lobbying on capitol hill. it reflects a man intent on enriching himself. prosecutors raided his homes and they used what was in his closet, ostrich skin jackets can to demonstrate the lifestyle he tried to maintain. by the time he was caught, his extraordinary avaris had become so commonplace that not even a federal judge could blame him for it. that certainly is one way to drain the swamp. coming up, we'll have much more on paul manafort, michael cohen and jumping into the 2020 race this week.

social security alert? it's a free alert if we find your social security number on the dark web. good, cuz i'm a little worried about my information getting out. why's that? [bird speaking] my social is 8- 7- 5 dash okay, i see. [bird laughing] somebody thinks it's hilarious. free social security alerts from discover. to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪

not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. ♪

welcome back. we've had an addition here to the table in honor of the unc duke game taking place this evening. bill cohen, duke loyalist. tar heel fan, as well.

>> i was going to go blue in faith, but without him, i'm not feeling it. >> 6:00 p.m. tonight, which is good for me. as the days ticked by, a historically diverse and crowded field of democrats battling it out to become the party's champion. we started with two dozen candidates, then the field started to shrink. as we wait for decisions from some heavy hitters like joe biden and beto o'rourke, there is still a packed field of official candidates struggling to set themselves apart from each other. some of them say they reject labels, but that can get awkward. >> when you call yourself a proud capitalist? >> you know, the labels, i'm not

sure any of them fit. >> do you consider yourself a capitalist? >> well, again, the labels -- i am a small business person. >> do you consider yourself a capitalist and does capitalism work? >> well, i think i don't look at myself with a label. >> shouldn't have been difficult. let me tell you about john hickenlooper. he was a geologist, then he became a brewpublic founder. john's comments stand in stark contrast to what we've heard from another democrat we are continuing to watch. that is former congressman beto o'rourke. he told reporters, quote, i'm a capitalist. i don't see how we're able to meet any of the fundamental challenges that we have as a country without, in part, harnessing the power of the markets. you were there yesterday. i was struck by brett stevens's column picking up on what was happening on "morning joe." he said john hickenlooper ought

to be a poster child for american capitalism. >> we were in awe like, dude, spit it out, say it. it's a good thing. it will separate you from the left of the crowd, if you will, others who don't probably consider themselves capitalists. but i think the bigger issue is i don't get this whole beto thing. he lost this election in texas. i'm old fashioned. i look at the electoral college. i want to know what he can bring and what you bring to the ticket and i don't see how beto -- i know he can raise money, but you didn't win in texas. so i don't get why we're talking about him. i consider him a nonstarter. that's just my opinion. but i think joe biden, this is his if he wants it and i think he needs to make a decision sooner rather than later because he keeps dragging it out and people are getting nationwide by that. >> how do you react to that, the unease c unease with which he is. how surprised are you by that? what does it say about labels? he says he's a no labels guy.

can you be a no labels guys in a democratic primary? >> we know as recently as i believe 2012 he prided himself on being a moderate. and there are quite a few democrats, quite frankly, who are moderates who are more anxious about the democratic party and are looking for a democrat who can proudly say they're a capitalist and make a message and articulate a message that capitalism works for everybody and can work for everybody. i don't think he's going to win people further on the west by not commit thalg he's a capitalist. he puts himself in a position to lose the people that are most likely to vote for him, anyway. >> do you agree with that? >> i do agree with that. i think you don't have to swift yourself into a pretzel to speak to the moment. and i will give o'rourke credit for that. what he said actually is i think exactly where democrats who

wants to get votes believe, yes, i'm a capitalist. i'm interested in helping address the market address time and equality. you have to speak to the income and ee equality that is creating anxiety in this country in all parts from new york city to rural areas within trump's base. and i think that is what the left of the party is really trying to speak to. whether or not they get that right or their approach is the best way, i'm not sure. but i think someone like hickenlooper might want to sit down and kind of understand what the heart of the issue is here. >> bill cohen, what does it say about centerism, that and what we've seen this week. howard schultz who continues to wait in the wings. >> howard schultz blew it for billionaires everywhere who wanted to run for president. that is probably why mike is not

running. joe biden has more or less an open lait lane in the centrist lane. hickenlooper is a capitalist, obviously. he's made a lot of money. and the whole world, it's not just here. it's sort of the victorious system of our era and maybe one day it will fall apart and we'll try something else. but i mean, to pretend that you're not, now on the margin webs you're vut lit right. we have to fix income and equality. we have to make sure people have health care if they need it. we have to fix the problems of capitalism. just like when i wrote in my book why wall street matters, we have to fix the problems of wall street, but we wouldn't want to live in a world if wall street wasn't doing what it's doing. let's not just denigrate it to denigrate it to try to score political points. >> i think one of the things president trump has started to do that he's going to do is talk about socialism. he's going to throw that on the democrats pretty hard. when he talked about that, every

democrat should have been up and agreed with that because capitalism is what we run on now. beto was right with what he said. my issue is i don't think he's a viable candidate, so i agree with you. but i think this whole notion of my sorority sister kamala harris has talked about medicare for all and then she backed off that a little bit. but there's a left ward lurch, and i'm a big fan of hers, i think that i like bennett from -- was it colorado? i think he could be intriguing. i'm sorry brown didn't get in. i'm a moderate republican who is definitely not voting for trump. i would rather eat dirt. so i would vote for a democrat if they are a cetrist. biten, i can do. i'll hold my nose a little, but i'll do it. when we come back, congresswoman omar is taking

heat for an apparent swipe at president trump. heat for an apparent swipe at president trump.

minnesota congresswoman omar finds herself at the center of another controversy this morning. this time over comments that take a swipe at former president

barack obama. she takes politico, quote, we can't be only upset with trump. many of the people who came before him also had really bad policies. omar is now disputing the exacter of those remarks. on thursday, the house of representatives passed a resolution that condemned hate speech. omar suggested supporters of israel might have dual loyalties. here is what president trump had to say about that. >> i thought yesterday's vote by the house was disgraceful. because it's become the democrats have become an anti-israel party. they've been an anti-jewish party. there's a stinging new op-ed in the post today calling out the president for his hypocrisy. it reads in part, president trump tweeted that omar's comments are a dark day for israel, which is rich coming from the man who falsely blamed george soros, a jewish billionaire for funding a cara van across the border and praised white supremacists.

bill cohen, we've had this resolution, i've seen it referred to as a kitchen sink resolution. let me ask you first to focus on this highlighting divides within the democratic party. the need to do it and the way it came about. >> so here is my view, david. we have first amendment in this country, lou her say whatever she wants, but don't give he oxygen for what she's saying. i'm not saying if people yell fire in a theater, we should ignore it. if she hases to views, the last thing we should do is try to block them and give them more oxygen and publicity. ignore this woman at this point. if she wants to isolate herself in a corner with these things, go for it. >> who bears the blame for dealing with it in the way it was dealt.

is it leadership giving it no oxygen? why do you do you think -- >> the democratic party is a big-tent group. one thing that people aren't talking about is her world view, the idea that there's something that needs to be said and done about the u.s. government and israel regarding our foreign policy is not a world view shed she holds by herself. she's perhaps inarticulate in the way she communicates her ideas, but the fact is there was a poll that came out this past fall that said significant groups of the democratic party's base actually have issue with israel policy related to the u.s. government right now, including women, millennial, black and latino voters, working-class voters, sore there are constituents of hers and people voting in 2020 who wants the u.s. government, congress in

particular to reexamine how they go about policy with israel. >> you say that, and he see the resolution and i wonder are we any closer to having this conversation? do you think we're any closer? >> unfortunately we're not. as long as this conversation is taking place against the back drop of the country dealing with the tumult created by a president who is a white supremacist and a party who enables him, we won't have any conversations about bigotry and language, and that's important. i think you're absolutely right, eugene, there is nothing wrong with having a policy-driven debate about the relationship between the united states and any other state. israel as a state, you can criticize a state, you can criticize a government. there's no problem with that. the issue i think is representative omar went into

anti-semitic territory with her language. the language she used to make those criticisms, whether she knew it or not, did engage in anti-semitism and understanding why language matters, i mean, anti-semitic tropes that jewish people will mesmerize others or they're money grubbing, horrible, ugly notions, are very old. i think they go way back. i think that's what people heard when they heard her language. there's language that matters, and then it's perfect acceptable to have a debate about the u.s. and its relationship with another country. are republicans ready to have a conversation about this? are they content to sit back and watch nancy pelosi wrestle with it? >> two things, another issue

that the president will use in 2020, is democrats are anti-israel. he's the first democrat to declare that jerusalem is the capital. evangelicals love this. they believe this is god's man in the white house. we can debate that another time. >> come back next week. >> but the issue of representative omar is complicated, because elections have consequences. you have the most diverse congress in the history of this country. women of color in the largest numbers ever. they have a different lens. i'm not defending her. i agree with everything you want about her use of language, inartful as it may be, but i get her world view, the lens from which he comes. epluribus, unum. we all to have a constructive

debate about our policies relative to any countries. israel is a sacred cow, period. that's been our foreign policy, and i think the republicans will seize on this. i'm very pro-israel, too, but i think we have to look at the relationships, vis-a-vis how we dewith other countries, regions and conflicts. we're america. we should never be seen to be just in one camp. although our relationship with israel matters a lot. bill, you talked about not giving it oxygen. this shows how that is difficult. leadership doesn't have the power of leadership that it had before in the congress. >> well, a lot of oxygen is -- too much oxygen is giving to trump's tweets, to the stupid things he says on a regular

base. he's the president, okay, what can you do? we're sort of obliged to cover him. idiotic comments by members of congress who are new, i mean, why focus on that? let her say what she wants, everybody can say what they want. why give it oxygen? i just don't buy it. >> william cohen, sophia nelson, mara gay and -- up next, individual crimes. s

if you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture now might not be the best time to ask yourself are my bones strong? life is full of make-or-break moments. that's why it's so important to help reduce your risk of fracture with prolia®.

only prolia® is proven to help strengthen and protect bones from fracture with 1 shot every 6 months. do not take prolia® if you have low blood calcium, are pregnant, are allergic to it, or take xgeva®. serious allergic reactions, like low blood pressure; trouble breathing; throat tightness; face, lip, or tongue swelling; rash; itching; or hives have happened. tell your doctor about dental problems as severe jaw bone problems may happen or new or unusual pain in your hip groin, or thigh, as unusual thigh bone fractures have occurred. speak to your doctor before stopping prolia® as spine and other bone fractures have occurred. prolia® can cause serious side effects, like low blood calcium, serious infections, which could need hospitalization, skin problems, and severe bone, joint, or muscle pain. are you ready? ask your doctor how prolia® can help strengthen your bones.

i can customize each line for soeach family member?e yup. and since it comes with your internet, you can switch wireless carriers, and save hundreds of dollars a year. are you pullin' my leg? nope. you sure you're not pullin' my leg? i think it's your dog. oh it's him. good call. get the data options you need, and still save hundreds of dollars. do you guys sell other dogs? now that's simple, easy, awesome. customize each line by paying for data by the gig or get unlimited. and now get $250 back when you buy a new samsung galaxy. click, call, or visit a store today.

that does it for me today. "a.m. joy" with joy reid starts right now. today a limousine brought former attorney general john mitchell to court. they used to call him the big enchilada at the white house. he came to be sentenced as a convicted felon. for 64 days these men sat in the judge's courtroom. when a time came for a final statement, mitchell and his lawyer had nothing to say. all eyes were on the man who was nose an max mustn't john. the judge wasted no time on the speech. each must serve as long as 2 1/2 years in prison. john mitchell left, growling it could have been worse, he could have sentenced some he to live thet