that's going to do it for me. i'll see you at soon eastern. it's time for "up." >> this is "up." i'm david gura. how easy is it to get access to president trump? stories converging this morning as "mother jones" and "the miami herald" report the owner of a chain of massage parlors has been selling access to mar-a-lago and looking more like joe biden and beto o'rourke will run in 2020. is the big tech conference south by southwest? >> it's a little like baseball. you can't be an impumpire and o one of the teams in the game.

>> paul manafort led an otherwise blameless life, we will see this week if another federal judge set to sentenced the former campaign chairman in washington agrees. >> how can you possibly claim manafort lived a blameless life. he's sentenced for another crime next week and a crime he committed while on house arrest for a third crime. >> a florida massage parlor owner has been selling chinese executives access to trump at mar-a-lago, where the president happens to be today. the owner did it by way of a website that sold access to the trump family. what makes it sordid and fascinating, li yang founded a chain of spas and massage parlors that included the one where bob kraft was busted for soliciting prostitution.

the sting targeted a massage parlor li yang used to own in jupiter, florida. her family contributed close to $60,000 to republican candidates and causes. "mother jones" and "the miami herald" illustrated their stories with images from li yang's social media files showing her with various members of the trump family. t a new group of people is filling the open seats. up with me christina greer, associate professor of political science at fordham university and senior aide to the ocasio-cortez campaign and danny cevallos joins me as well. what does this tell you about access and the transactional nature of this white house and

this president? >> solid reporting but what was new? we know since day one donald trump essentially when we think about the trump hotel in d.c., anyone who wanted access to the president stayed at one of his properties. he does not read briefs about policy but he reads his briefs about who is staying in hotels and how often. foreign agents have stayed to curry favor, so unfortunately for me the story as egregious as it was and insulting to the american public as it is, it's not new. this is how people have been engaging with this president and his family and the entire administration since he was sworn in. >> i want to draw in from david cornyn and his colleagues describing what happened. "the overall message seems

clear, hire yang's company and she can get you close to trump and his government at mar-a-lago and washington." what is extraordinary is how formalized does this seem to be? >> it's clear every month a new story comes out, he has no intention to do any of those things and people line elizabeth warren, bernie sanders and kamala harris running for president these are the most naked forms to lead the country. it shows that corruption is rampant amongst the political elites but this is the most naked form of it and pretty disgusting. >> let me get your reaction, what does that say about his

image and the way that his ability to be influenced is projected outside of the united states. >> the presidency is for sale, that's why businesspeople from china or any other country, if i pay a certain agency a certain amount of money i can get to mar-a-lago and get access to the president. it's not so different from a fund-raiser people charging $5,000 a plate. the reason they do it is for access but the president is personally profiting at it, because it's happening at his club. >> dan, we talked about it for well over a year now. the president is personally profiting from it. we see the wider orbit of all are profiting as well. >> in fairness, the emoluments clause is rarely litigated the there is an interpretation of it

says the president has to benefit from his official act, money in exchange for his official act. if he's getting this income stream from trump org itself, that doesn't violate the emoluments clause. reasonable minds can differ. we have to take a step back and say since political time and memorial, people have been giving contributions or paying money like you said for a rubber chicken dinner and photo op which is a tremendous risk for the poll significances. sooner or later they get a picture taken with the zodiac or distasteful person. you can give contributions as long as it's not exchange for explicit promise for some official act t is legal even though it may be odious. >> christina, "if the posted photos are authentic" there are

lots of photos accompanying it. "she's got clients into the trump circle for a quick pick, she's used her contacts to go from massaging clients to massaging influence." the weirdness of the stories converging, a few weeks back the sting operation in jupiter, florida, something weird and classically of this time you have the convergence of the stories in florida. >> it goes to the type of people donald trump surrounded himself with. the american public should be very concerned that this president has roughly 25 people in his quasi inner circle indicted, on trial or headed to prison. jimmy carter sold his peanut farm because he didn't want it to seem it was benefiting the

presidency. mar-a-lago, the american public will pay for the secret service to stay at mar-a-lago or trump tower and i'm also going to raise the prices three times so he is making money. is he definitely benefiting from this as are his children, as are so many people who know the closer and longer they say with this president they're cashing in currently but know if they don't go to prison they'll cash out once he leaves office. >> walid, you're working on campaigns and politics presently. "the miami herald" says "as some elites distanced themselves from the a new group is opening up at events." what does this is a about fund-raising and the economy surrounding campaigning in 2019? >> a lot of americans i feel don't trust the way campaigns are run because it's so open to rich people and these big corporate funders and executives

to just buy politicians and rigs the political system for the people up top and preserves hierarchy from working people don't see themselves reflected in political office. it's the most exaggerated form of getting around campaign finance law and catering to corporate donors that affects both parties but i think it's clear he's been enriching himself through the relationship with mar-a-lago, using government as a tool to curry favors with elites and vice versa, and at the end of the day, we have a broken campaign finance system that allows this stuff to go around. it's legalized bribery. >> i want to ask you about mar-a-lago. >> i haven't been. >> fact check back. the president calls it the winter white house and we've had president obama going to martha's vineyard and rents a house, president george w. bush goes to crawford, texas.

it seems an economic apparatus, it's not a place he's going to retreat to. there is the super bowl party, the new year's eve party, there is the chance if you were to pay "x" amount of money you could run into the leader of the free world. >> a lot of people of work in his administration. >> don jr. >> his advisers. he's been there with foreign dignitaries. it isn't just a place the president goes to let loose and vacation and play golf. we know there is business happening there, the business of politics, so that's what is disconcerting to people, the lines are so clearly blurred here. >> the lines of blurry, i want to return to another story involving the massage parlors. where do things stand? >> just covering it. >> clarification i know happening on the side of the table. >> strange you come to me. >> bob kraft is a long time friend of the president's,

denying he did anything wrong. this was a major sting, more than 100 individuals cited. >> it's a major sting and from a public policy perspective, prostitution has traditionally been thought as a consensual transaction between two willing parties. in the scheme of human trafficking, it may be anything but. you see large scale stings because with the legal face of a massage parlor the only way unfortunately to find out whether or not sex is being exchanged for money is a sting operation where you have video evidence and sounds like that's the evidence they have against robert kraft, at least that's what we're hearing, however brief or short the video evidence may be. >> there is a darkness to it as well. >> there is. >> we have new details when we talk to "mother jones" behind the story selling access to president trump, on with joy at

10:00 a.m. eastern time on msnbc. up next, beto unplugged, the former congressman documentary as he's set to announce whether he'll run in 2020. another democrat considering a run for president who has not said he's running is leading all democrats in a brand new poll. we'll tell you who. but when it comes to colon cancer screening... i'm not doin' that. i eat plenty of kale. ahem, as i was saying... ...with cologuard, you don't need an excuse... all that prep? no thanks. that drink tastes horrible! but...there's no prep with cologuard... i can't take the time off work. who has two days? and i feel fine - no symptoms! everybody, listen! all you need is a trip to the bathroom. if you're 50 or older and at average risk, cologuard is the noninvasive option that finds 92% of colon cancers.

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that's how it started and

looking to continue it. >> which? >> we got to run like there's nothing to lose, yeah. >> that's a clip from a documentary about beto o'rourke, the film is a distillation of 700 hours of footage, it gives us a glimpse into the former congressman's campaign for a u.s. senate seat that transformed him from an unknown to one of the biggest names in politics, he's dropping "f" bombs and shouting at his advisers and we see how tough it is to run for office. "for 90 minutes on saturday o'rourke was reminded in intimate detail how difficult his last campaign was and how grueling a higher profile campaign might be for his children." he told reporters "i gotta be on the time line that works for my family and for the country."

during the screening his supporters got an email inviting them to be the first to hear beto's big announcement. all signs indicate he will run for president in 2020. walid, as you're watching all of this, you worked with the candidate who caught fire and like beto o rourke, everybody is talking about her. what do you think is going through his head? he was sitting in the theater watching the documentary yesterday. i mentioned his wife amy expressed trepidation. one of his three children went to the screening. >> all campaigns are made up of blood, sweat and tears, trials and tribulations. to watch it all happen again was an intense campaign. it must be personally intense for him to realize that he's going to have to do it again on a bigger scale this time. i think in 2020 democrats aren't looking for just a candidate running on personal charisma and

personal bio. i think what they are looking for is candidates proposing big ideas and beto had trouble with the progressive movement since november. unlike elizabeth warren, kamala harris, cory booker, he hasn't put out big ways that he's trying to brand himself on policy proposing solutions that match the scale of crises working families are facing. >> is that part of the uneasiness of this, he hasn't declared he's running. there's a long tease. he sat down with oprah, elizabeth warren is running and we have concrete policy proposals from her. can we attribute some of that to the fact he's not decided what he's doing? >> be clear, put up or step aside. you're flirting with this the way bloomberg constantly does. he finally said i'm not running. beto has not come with anything concrete or substantive since he ran for senate.

your star is there but why? during the gft shovernment shut where families are lining up literally for food, he decides to go on a walk-about and clear his mind. this to me if you are running for president and want to be the leader of this nation, this is the time for the 31 days over a million americans are really struggling and literally thinking what's happening day to day he decides to go on the 21-year-old post college driving tour and for me, not only was that insulting but let me know there was a certain level of maturity lacking, understanding what is fundamentally going on with the american public with a certain class of people, not just the poor or working class individuals. these are middle class americans that really needed someone to help them think through these ideas so we don't have this again. >> are we seeing, picking up on

that, the proudly unadvised in american politics. his senate campaign was that, it was him and his wife, maybe a handful of others traveling across the state of texas visiting as many places as possible. he proudly said he didn't have a poller it. he was assured the trappings of a "normal" campaign. this is becoming a bit of a theme as we looking athe younger candidates out there. >> there is a film coming out now about him, of course, right, any type of campaign is very grueling, takes a big personal toll on the candidate, on their family, the people close to them but this campaign at least the senate campaign and this potential presidential campaign if he does announce or decide seems like it might be more beto o'rourke than america and what people need and to walid's point, a lot of people pointed out he took a lot of money from the oil and gas industry, things as we see more left, more

progressive candidates out there, that might become a big problem for him. i don't know if he's going to be left enough based on where the base really wants people to be at the moment. he is also going to have things that put him into a compromising position. >> walid, you're a proud progressive, i'll apply the label to you. tell me if you claim the mantle but how important are labels to you going into the campaign. we talked yesterday about the difficulty john hickenlooper the former governor of colorado talking about whether or not he embraces socialism. there are labels that are being applied to candidates. how important are they going to be as you look at sorting out the 14-plus candidates in the democratic field. >> democratic voters tend to be left on policy and confusing on labels. a poll came out in iowa, half of bernie sanders support comes from moderates and half come from liberals and the same thing with biden or harris. people don't see candidates in a

left/right spectrum. are you fighting for people on the bottom or fighting for people at the top and i think that's where american politics is right now. bernie sanders is a democratic socialist, i think that's the way he differentiates himself from other candidates. in the same poll of democratic voters in general the most likely demographic was african-americans and the least likely as liberal democrats are also african-american. it's confusing where voters self-identify. >> does anyone think the documentary captured candid moments where he slipped with the "f" bomb and yelling at staffers? o'rourke is engineering and smartly a campaign. this is not accidental. accidental is a secret hidden camera. o'rourke had lights and a steady cam following him around for a documentary. this is not a surprise this stuff was captured. i don't care if it's 700 hours or seven hours. he's thinking ahead, that's why

he appeared at a metallica concert. he's got a plan and he's executing that plan. he's very smart. he knows what he's doing. >> i want to ask you about our readiness to have a definitional conversation, you talk about bernie sanders calling himself a democratic socialist. do they want to reckon with the terms, do you think? >> we know that fox news already sort of weaponizing certain terms. >> step away from a maduro regime. >> as i said if you want hillary clinton to be president watch fox news because they talk about her all the time. i think the democrats need to figure out, we have definitely had some tense moments since 2016 because we have multiple factions in the party, not just two factions, not just socialist versus moderates. instead of getting bogged down with labels, we need to talk about ideas and express them and back to the beto point, why are

we, i'm confused why we're talking about him because when we think about the 2018 election and you think about stacey abrams who came from here and just came up short for a host of reasons, we can talk about the secretary state if we need to, beto, had he run his campaign a little differently there is a path for democrats in texas and there has been more recently than say georgia. for me, his failure actually speaks more to his inability to win something that was winnable as opposed to someone like abrams who was actually going up an uphill battle. the fact we're talking about beto and not necessarily abrams in the same 2020 conversation lets us know where we are in our political conversation. >> i think it's important for democrats not necessarily to fit every label in a category but not just fox news, the president is choosing to weaponize western terms. >> i thought the president and fox news were synonymous. >> they are one in the same but

america will not be a socialist country, and the applause and the standing ovation that you saw from so many people inside of congress, including a lot of democrats, too, and i think we need to be aware of that. the candidates are going to need to clearly get their message out and what that means. no one is calling for america to become a socialist country, for the government to control the means of production. it's more about what you want people to be getting from the government and who we think it should be helping out in what way, what we think are human rights and what aren't. >> we'll come back, roger stone testing the limits of his gag order, he was warned about a controversial instagram post, now it's a new book. r. kelly out of jail this morning after someone made a $161,000 child support payment on his behalf. it's the second time he's been released in less than two weeks after he was charged last month with ten counts of aggravated

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as i have always said, the only thing worse that we've talked about is not being talked about. >> roger stone, long time friend of an adviser to donald trump had legal analysts talking this week but he may not like what they've been saying. >> he brings husband toothbrush when he goes to court i think he's going to the slammer this time. >> i think he's playing with fire. i think he could get locked up. this is insane what he's doing. >> what is it that could land roger stone in jail? the guy will not stop talking and posting and writing about himself and the russia investigation that led to his indictment. that's a problem because roger stone is under a gag order

issued by judge amy berman jackson. he's barred from commenting on his case. unable to go on television, he relied on other media like instagram, this image of his trial judge with crosshairs above her head appeared on his instagram account and been deleted, the judge admonishing him and saying "today i gave you a second chance. this is not baseball. you don't get a third chance." roger stone ignored her warning. two weeks later he posted this image which has also since been deleted of "who framed roger stone" to raise money for his legal defense fund. prosecutors flagged the post to the judge arguing it could violate the gag order. he'll answer tomorrow at another court hearing and for something else a book release "the myth of russian collusion" he writes "i now find myself on crooked special prosecutor robert

mueller's hit list because i've advised donald trump for the past 40 years, targeted because the liberals want me to testify against my good friend." his actions are consistent with someone who does not like to shy away from the public spotlight and in line with his behavior as a long time republican operative. "the washington post" asks stone about his code of conduct what he calls stone's rules in this interview. >> one of the rules is attack, attack, attack, and never defend. and another is shall it -- >> those are good rules for any political contest. >> another is deny everything. >> and i do. >> are you doing that right now? >> yes, and i'm also telling the truth. >> if roger stone wants to stay out of jail he has to stop playing by his rules and abiding by judge berman jackson. up next, elizabeth warren sets her sights on amazon.

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it's a little like baseball. you can be an umpire, a platform, or you can own teams. that's fine, but you can't be an umpire and own one of the teams that's in the game. >> that's democratic senator we were elizabeth warren explaining her proa approach to legislation. she's focused on amazon and the

upper hand she says it has in the e-commerce marketplace. >> drive out of business because they have this incredible advantage from having the information of the platform and because we have the ability to manipulate the platform, put themselves right at the top of page one and put that competitor back on page 16, where nobody ever goes. >> it's unclear as of yet how big an issue this will be in the 2020 campaign. amazon is typically ranked among the top companies in terms of customer satisfaction earning a score of 82% in 2018. elizabeth warren's approval rating in her home state is recovering around 50%, might be some apples and oranges there, but she is not the only candidate for the democratic nomination making big tech a platform issue. several of her fellow candidates have recently spoken out about tech monopolies and mergers but

warren's stance is the boldest articulation of how the country might dismantle businesses and the clearest sign big tech is in big trouble going into the 2020 primaries. there's been a focus on technology in the context of privacy. this is focusing on size and competitiveness. what is your sense of the appetite of the proposal along the likes of which elizabeth warren unveiled this week in new york? >> the game has changed for the big tech companies. maybe they didn't know it but it's coming for them and started with privacy and all of that uproar but we've seen them put a lot of money, build entire teams to start lobbying everybody in washington and i don't think they're quite ready for the rage and anger that maybe is coming to them. with this proposal, i think it's interesting. i've been checking in with people who i know who are policy buffs in these specific areas and i see very mixed results. there is agreement across the

board these companies have too much power, that they're too big, as to whether retroactively going back and trying to dismantle some deals or acquisitions already made is the right step maybe not but we need to figure out a way to address them and i think elizabeth warren is at least putting that on the priority list and making it a point of discussion. >> walid, what is being discussed here or re-evaluated is the comfort people had in silicon valley determining what democracy should be like, what free speech is like, a lot of things central to our political system was ceded to silicon valley for so long. how is this emblematic of that? >> it's no secret that silicon valley and big tech are huge donors to the democratic party. elizabeth warren is saying i'm willing to take on some of the big donors, there's attention and now kamala harris the senator from california, she's has not commented on big tech in the way they have.

i think this is something we have done before when it came to standard oil and the rail roads in the early 20th century, where they basically were holding in private hands public inf infrastructure everyone had to use. amazon, google, facebook, these are public pieces of infrastructure held in private hands and that is the rationale for breaking up the corporations, they're monopolies everyone has to use. >> amy klobuchar thinks there needs to be more muscle in washington, d.c. what does that look like how senator warren said, reevaluate facebook's acquisition of ins instagr instagram. >> first the challenge is changing the way we think about monopolies in the context of companies like amazon. they don't fit the traditional evils. the reason monopolies are evil

is because when there's no competition, you can create any price you want and we're forced to pay it. amazon flipped the model completely. they engage in predatory pricing so the person harmed is not us the consumers. facebook is free, amazon has the lowest prices but instead they lower their prices to eliminate the competition and as consumers day to day, we don't care about that. we like paying less for a roll of toilet paper. we don't care if some other company is forced out but that violates anti-trust law if the predatory pricing is done with the intent to dominate the industry and destroy the competition. >> i'm curious how much introspection you think there is in silicon valley in big tech. anand asked the audience, people there for the conversation listening to what senator warren had to say. do you think there is an

appetite to reckon with what happened and think about some of the changes the senators proposed? >> no, i don't think so. mark zuckerberg hearings showed us there are no repercussions, they will be given benefit of the doubt but having this conversation at 30,000 feet, we need to zoom it down a bit. the tech companies are coming into cities where marginalized communities are being pushed out. here in new york we have this debate about amazon head quarters. >> not a coincidence senator warren unveiled this in queens. >> they may not see the company being pushed out because of the low predatory pricing but with the jobs that are coming, a lot of communities are asking what exactly am i getting? am i paying for the transportation infrastructure not yet built? all the pressures come into my community. once i pay for them and deal with the burden, you may get all the benefits and i may get all

the burden and i will be pushed out of my community. these are the conversations i think smaller cities and large cities are having with their local governments, their local leadership to say what is the real cost of having these major conglomerates come into our city, when we know hypergentrification is happening across the country, not just in california. >> one last point, one of the interesting facets here, technology is moving and changing so quickly that this is also being discussed under the assumption it's always facebook and google. before we thought it was always going to be microsoft and google was a blip on the radar. that's another element of complication to the way we approach this. >> the federal government lacking plasticity, the ability to move as fast as technology. conservatives love to attack alexandra ocasio-cortez. who is she targeting next.

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welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. i want to show you a sample of head headlines, ocasio-cortez is not woke because she throws way some of her plastic bags, the

green new deal will cause a birdpocalpse. the congresswoman apparently i'm a cow dictator. i have a full time job in congress and moonlight as america's greatest villain or as the new hope and it's tiring. i'm a normal person. the latest controversy is a complaint filed by a conservative watch dog group. here is how fox news covered that story. >> ocasio-cortez is a sworn enemy of carbon. didn't stop her from taking hundreds of uber rides. >> what are you doing with that money? i gave it to you to further our socialist left wing causes. >> our crew asked her why she flew and why she didn't take the amtrak train she said because it saved a couple hours of her constituent's time. >> adam, do you care to defend her? >> i'm not going to defend her

on this move. >> good for you. >> hit back on twitter writing in part, i'll hit back i've taken the plane versus the train, conservative groups have taken to spamming us and filing bogus ethics complaints. this is how the misinformation machine works. the humor columnist for "the washington post" "enough is enough. she needs to stop inserting herself into our every waking moment. i'm sick about hearing her from my voice talking about alexandria ocasio-cortez. your reaction to the swirl that encompassed her since before she made it to washington, d.c., the pushback she's getting on the issues. >> they make fun of her clothing, her intelligence, they mock her upbringing and at the end of the day, the elitist attitude from the right wing and republicans is showing what the republican party thinks of

working class people, working class people of color, working class women of color, if this is how they crete a.treat a.o.c., taken this and jujitsu is back onto them. she's moving the the window to arguments on the terms of progressives. you have people like ann coulter say, maybe we should tax the rich. we have republicans acknowledging climate change. that is dangerous. they have tended to have political arguments on their own terms. they're freaking out. >> did you see how she was able toot that on the campaign? she didn't have this level of criticism. how surprised are you at the ease with which she seems to be able to parry with this kind of racism. >> she was clapping back on twitter way back. she was one of the most brilliant clever messaging

people. she's just really good at building up the movement around values and progressive ideas. she sticks to her guns and fights. when was the last time you saw the government argue for a tax rate on millionaires. these ideas that were at the heart of the new deal, the heart of the civil rights movement. >> the degree she's been able to clap back. take the story about the campaign and donations this week it was a valiant effort to try to shift that conversation. it hasn't worked. >> right. and i think, you know, her use of social media, as the youngest member of congress, has been brilliant. think members of her own party and republicans have tried to emulate that. it's not worked is out so successfully. when think about alexandria

ocasio-cortez, i think about shirley ch shirl shirley chisholm. she said her white male colleagues kept looking at her. one man kept saying, 42-5. he couldn't believe she's making the same amount as he was. there's an anger coming out. it's palpable. he's saying, here's the policy, right? and i'm not perfect. she's admitted, yeah, i make mistakes, too. i'm learning. i just got here. that worried people. if this is who she is as a freshman, with no real experience, just yet. imagine who she will be in congress. when she actually gets her real footing. i think it scares a lot of people. >> i saw that wink when you said it.

is it inherently a good thing that she's being talked about as how widely she is. is there a peril to that? to being to central to the conversation? >> uh, yes, and no. you know, on one hand, yes. you're right. people are angry. people are scared. i think it's very clearly put out into the limelight that some members of the congress, people on fox news, who don't think that someone who looks like aoc belongs in congress and should be there. it's a good indicator that they're talking so much. it's whether people fall for it or not. they're focusing on what she's wearing as if someone who is talking about ending inequality can't buy nice things for

themselves. we're talking not about the green few deal, we're talking about if someone took a car, a plane, or a train somewhere. they're treeing to focus on the distractions. that is concerning the amount of people i have heard from when it comes to the amazon head quarters debate who think it was all that aoc and remove it from the real issues that are being debated. it has an impact. at least we're talking about it. >> our legal analyst and messaging man today. you talked about beto o'rourke and his plan. do you see them in parallel? >> i do. i do. i think conservatives would be wise to not try to criticize aoc on these collateral issues. but her platform. things in her platform that can be criticized.

health care for all. college for all. validly challenge her on those issues, not the way she looks. it's the way we're doing politics, but it's not the way we should be. >> they don't take her on the issues because they're populate. a majority of people support the grand new deal. >> there's an economic argument to be made for college for everybody or health care for everybody. you can make an economics argument against them. it would be a valid one. though reasonable minds may differ. >> elizabeth warren putting out a proposal on tech. you're work tong green new deal. talk about the way that she use that or talked about that in the campaign and can you compare

that to how tech regulations are being discussed. >> she was focused on the new deal. how the country was able to transform the economy. and the way that the new deal obviously excluded many women and people of color. she was always curious how to do something like that on a big scale. she'll fight for big ideas that match the scale of the crises. she criticized moderates for being the people on, no, you can't. this is the united states of america, we can propose big ideas. >> nice to meet you. thank you to my panel of this hour. coming up in our next hour, he's not announced whether he's running in 2020, he's now leading among the democrats in iowa. a week ahead for the people close to president trump who

have been indicted in special council robert mueller's investigation. as we wait for robert mueller's report to drop. could happen at any moment. made with fresh milk without the added hormone rbst. it's cheese as it should be.

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this is "up." i'm david gura. this is a busy and likely a consequential week for all the president's men who have been

indicted in special council robert mueller's investigation. on the docket, monday, roger stone is scheduled to appear before judge amy berman jackson again. why he's still auking about his case and the mueller investigation even though he's under a court-imposed gag order not to do that. on wednesday, the same judge is expected to sentence paul manafort on campaign finance charges. that could add ten years to his time. also on wednesday, michael flynn back in court. we'll get an update on his sentencing. find out how much prison time he'll receive. thursday, roger stone back in court again. he explains himself monday. we'll find out if the judge thinks he's violated the order. and friday, rick gates, will get a status update on his future

sentencing for lying to investigators. almost each and every friday is a opportunity for a robert mueller surprise. it's led to 199 criminal charge. 37 guilty pleas. and five prison sentences so far. as washington continues to hold it breath for robert mueller's final report, you may want to keep an eye on congress. that they'll pressure to make the report public. the house rules committee will consider this on monday. setting up a quick vote on the floor. the measure is nonbinding. it reflects the democrats' efforts to make public robert mueller's findings. up with me this hour, chris lu. lynnett lopez, ellie mistall.

and jackie writes the power up news letter. you do such a god job of covering this day in and day out. seems to me this is a particularly busy week. >> it really is. you didn't think it would get busier than michael cohen's hearing. there's a few things i'm looking at this week. whether or not -- you know, it's -- can be a futile exercise in predicting when this mueller report is going to come out. we have seen 37 charges from the special counsel. i think it will be telling whether or not gates, manafort, and stone are actually sentenced this week. if they are, it shows that the cooperation is done. and then -- but i also think there's a lot of unanswered information right now, too. i'm curious to see what judge amy berman jackson reveals in the court hearings. the post filed a petition because the 80 pages of sealed

documents as it relates to manafort's case and hi he breached his plea deal. those are still sealed and highly redacted. we still don't know what goes to the core, the heart, as previous people have said about special counsel mueller's investigation. it will be telling to what mueller is looking at. >> if you want to see this rogue's gallery, judge berman jackson's courtroom is a good place to do that. paul manafort is going to be there. let's talk about paul manafort. i want your sense at what happened across the potomac in virginia. to what degree is she considering that? >> she doesn't have a reputation for leniency. i don't think she'll care that t.s. ellis thinks that manafort has led a blameless life.

>> otherwise blameless. >> last week was an amazing experience in kau casety. >> caucacity? >> yes, my client has committed crime. but imagine he was white. that was the actual defense. >> the lincoln lawyer. >> i think matthew mcconaughey is a great lawyer. on television. >> is that foghorn leghorn. >> all right, all right, all right. >> go ahead. >> 47 months is a long time. he's a 69-year-old man. he's going to jail for four years. that's a long time. we got him, guys! now judge jackson is going to sentence him again. i'm not worried that manafort won't get enough time in prison. we'll get him. the fact that there's a disparity between what a rich

white man who hunts ostriches get compared to a similarly situated african-american defendant is something we should talk about. but it doesn't have anything to do with manafort specifically. we're nork knocking down the trump associates. it's not a witch hunt or witch hoax. there are actual crimes, and actual people, are going to actual cljail. >> are you focusing on -- >> do we call it the gaggle of grifters? do we call it the pair sites on parade? >> a lot of alliteration happening here. >> it's a show case of all the awful people trump has associated himself with. i find the roger stone stuff hilarious. the pan is 70 years old and he can't shut up. he's never going to change. he's never going to be different. he might just go to jail for

that. you can sigh the dyed in the wool cynicism and lifetime of awful behavior from this crew. i would like some judge to give them a talking to. can we get soar iing iteration . >> chris, what we're talking about are systemic issues. you're looking at roger stone. somebody who seemingly has no awareness of how the legal system works. a gag order is placed on him. he's having to answer for it again. this blind ignorance about the way the system works. >> or willful disregard. >> or willful disregard. >> whether it's the gaggle of grifterses. these are people.

>> #. #gaggle of grifters. let's get it trending. >> they're going to break through the envelope every chance they get. what i'm looking at is the constant drip, drip, drip, of congressional oversight. the trump administration puts out the budget monday. >> late, by the way. >> we're not going to hear from alex acosta about the jeffrey epstein plea. this is going to happen on many different avenues. not only in the courtroom. but also in every single committee in the house. and this just is -- it's a death by a thousand -- >> is it really changed? since the midterms, so much has happened on capitol hill. they are shedding light on so many things that were ignored or

perhaps not cared about. talk about that. >> i think you're right. the public, for one, finds all these inveinvestigations very credible. we had the first to time to get a transparent look at all of these shady business dealings and how they're all tying together. and, you know, i think what cohen's testimony has done is there's been a domino effect. it's allowed the house judiciary, ways and means to move forward. obtain the president's tax return. petition for subpoena the white house security clearance pr sesz. it helps when documents are provided and cohen provides leads and bread crumbs for

others to follow. >> there's to defense coming from the trump administration. we have gotten on so used to it that we don't talk about it much. their defense is that it's a hoax. it's all a lie. all of these criminals, all these indictments, all the charges, all the jail time, it's all a hoax. there is no credible defense coming from anybody in the administration for why they hire so many people who seem to commit crimes. no defense from anybody in the administration for why the investigations are continuing beyond some thought that it's all a made-up lie. >> it's wild that the two officials you mention, i can think off the top of my head, the crimes that they might have done. or the ways they might have lied to the public. wilbur ross lying for years about the fact that he was a billionaire. lying on financial forms. every single person in the administration is tainted. it become not just about what they've done in the white house. it's about who are you people? and where did we find you?

>> even on this issue of security clearances, for example. this is not the deep state conspiring against president trump and his family. this is his chief of staff, john kelly, writing contemporaneous memos citing that he didn't believe jared kushner didn't meet the criteria for one. >> the oversights in policy decisions as well. the child separation policy. you have secretary nielsen saying we don't lock kids in cages, despite all visual evidence that they do lock kids in cages. their efforts to cut back national monuments. it will happen on so many levels. >> last question to you about bob mueller's report. fascination wit, expectation for it continues. there's a piece in "the new york

times" today writing about if there's a smoking gun in it. she talks about watergate, whitewater, and this. the watergate road map became available to the public in 2018. just last year when it was unsealed. the starr report, in contrast, was released within two days of its tran mission to the legislature. with in luck, the time frame of the mueller report will happen more like the latter than the former. >> we changed the laws after the starr report to stop kenneth starr from happening again. this is somewhat the consequence of it. the man who helped write the new law say there is are ways congress can try to compel the report. i think the way we'll see it is to compel witnesses to testify to what was in the report as opposed to compelling bill barr, the new attorney general, to

release it. if barr doesn't release enough of a report, mueller will find himself under subpoena, called to testify from tonight of congress. up next, one of president trump's key campaign pledges. the wall. now members of his own party are poised to stand in his way. plus, crossing the president's red line. democrats in the house want answers from the president's son-in-law, jared kushner, and his daughter, ivanka trump. mp

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this is "up." i'm david gura. as he heads back to washington, a bumpy budget battle awaits president trump. at the center of it is a promise he made four years ago. >> i would build a great wall. and nobody builds walls better than me. believe me. and i will have mexico paying for that wall. mark my words. >> if there is any doubt, mexico is not paying for the wall. roiters reports that the president will ask congress for an additional $8 billion. members of hi party are about to rebuke him. four senate republicans say they'll join democrats in saying it's not a federal emergency. among th >> when you use the national emergency's act to effectively expand executive powers, i think

that sets a dangerous precedent and i don't think that it's a path that we should take. >> a senate vote likely to take place this week. on the house side, 13 house republicans joined their democratic colleague. meanwhile, there's a lot of uncertainty about what the national emergency actually means. house democrats are pushing the pentagon on information that military pensions and pay could be used to subsidize the wall. former chief of staff john kelly is calling it a waste of money to build a wall along the entire southern border. yon kelly also contradicted the way this president characterizes migrants. >> by the way, they're overwhelmingly not criminals. people coming up here for economic purposes pip don't blame them for that. >> let's start there, lynnette. pick up on john kelly's redemption tour. >> everyone is doing a redems tour.

everyone's done a redems tour. keep trying. hopefully, you'll do it in your lifetime. hopefully, you'll be redeemed in your lifetime i don't know if his voice is loud enough. i don't know if fox news will air it. i don't know if the base will see that. when he was in the white house and had the ability to speak to those people, he said nothing. and now he gets to whisper it to a bunch of kids at duke. so, i don't care. but, he is right that this is an issue. and, as i understand it, they're going to -- the trump administration would also like the take money away from military infrastructure. and that is, what? i mean this is supposed to be the party of national security. and the gop has lost its mind. next person. everybody knows this. we could talk about it all day. >> chris, the reason i want to talk about it is there is not a feel of a national emergency when the president is with a professional golfer out yesterday in mar-a-lago.

i feel like the narrative. he was trying to gin up anxiety. worry about what is happening at the border. it will add an odd color to what is going on there. >> we're not talking about the caravans at the border. amazing we stopped talking about that after the election. i was surprised to hear from kelly. retirement is like truth serum. i think you'll see in the senate what we call jailbreak. now that there's a clear majority that will vote against the wall, you'll have a lot of senator break. it is an easy vote for them to do. they know that the house can't -- there won't be enough votes in either chamber to override. >> you look at lisa murkowski, the four snars, do you think we'll see te roegs chris is describing?

>> that is exactly right. senator paul said he expects ten more senators to come out against the resolution. this is ultimately very symbolic. i think what is important here is that as these debates over the wall, which everyone privately greece won't help the situation at the border, the situation is actually ballooning. it is a humanitarian crisis. a number of people are trying to come over. and there's no process in place for them to -- for them to actually legally come here. and, the asylum process is under attack. and so i think all this attention dedicated to the wall is taking away from coming up with concrete legislative fixes. tex nothing. and serious, factually based debates. >> trump is ruining solutions

for the problem. he's scaling back, for instance, on judges he was supposed to put a lot more judges on the case. he's scaling back on the judges. it's what we need. trump is taking that away because he's so focused on his wall. the vote coming up is important for more than symbolism. once the senate rejects the national emergency. if trump vetoes it, that puts the whole thing on shaky legal ground in the supreme court. one thing that happensed with the national emergency act, that means congress is giving up its power to appropriate funds. you could argue that congress can always take that power back. but if the president with veto it, he can veto congress taking its own power back, which should be a violation of separation of powers. the rest of them might understand that. if the senate moves to do the

override of the national emergency and then trump vetoes it, it makes the national emergency weaker on legal grounds. >> go ahead, sorry. >> on moral grounds, the whole thing disgusting. you brought up kirstjen nielsen this week. she needs to be tried for crimes against humanity. >> amen. >> when you're at the point in your life where you're obfuscating the definition of cages. like you have left the rest of, like, the human circle at that point. she needs to be prosecuted. i have said this on your show before and i'll say it again. the international community's silence about what we, as a country, is doing is noticed by every official and government official in african nations. the european courts always, like, show up, when an african despot says boo to a white farmer. but antonio gutierrez, the u.n.

secretary general, hasn't said anything about what we're doing at our border. it's tragic. it ruins the credibility. >> i would say it falls on deaf ears. but we have no ears in the u.n. he's not said he's running. different generations get the same quality of customer service that we have been getting. being a usaa member, because of my service in the military, you pass that on to my kids. something that makes me happy. being able to pass down usaa to my girls means a lot to both of us. he's passing part of his heritage of being in the military. we're the edsons. my name is roger zapata. we're the tinch family, and we are usaa members for life. to begin your legacy,

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welcome back to "up." former vice president joe biden is not officially in the race, but a new iowa poll has him leading the crowded democratic field in the hawkeye state. joe biden tops the field with 27%. bernie sander, the senator from vermont is close behind with 25%. giving them both a huge lead over kamala harris, cory booker and beto o'rourke. elizabeth warren trails sanders by 16 percentage points. iowa is a crucial state. candidates have invested time campaigning there already. is their time helping build support for their bids?

look at this. not so much. how poll results compare to the amount of time each contender has spent in iowa. the two people leading the race have barely been there. pollster ann seltzer says, if i'm joe biden and i see this poll, i want to jump in. let me start with you. let's start macro here. what is the utility of a. like this at this point? you have two candidate who is have run before, have national name recognition. >> first of all, what else would we talk about on this show if we didn't have polls. i'm not here to make friends, david. >> nor would i want you to. >> no, i think this is great for joe. i was talking to some of his supporters on wall street. the money booing people. and they expect that polls like this will push him out into the race. and that we'll know some time around april.

but, until then, you know, we can speculate along with everyone else. this is part of the fun. i will remind you of a race that happened a million years ago where some unknown guy with a funny name beat out the clinton machine. so we don't know. what i am grateful for is the number of nicknames donald trump is going to have to stay up and think about right now. >> we're at 14. >> oh, his lizard brain is aworking. >> they've run before. how much does name recognition matter? how do the other candidates get around that? >> this is about name recognition. but i think the poll encapsulates the broth broader debate going on in the democratic party right now. do the democrats want a centrist moderate or someone like bern knee sanders, leftist, universal for all policies. if you go deeper in the poll,

biden and bernie's poll numbers are split under 45 and over age 45, too. so it's clear that younger voters want more progressive policies. older voters, they don't. they are more independent, moderate leaning. there is a split in the professional class over what is going to be more successful in beating trump. in 2020. but, um, you know, think you made a really good point. which is that biden does have these money backers on wall street who are rumbling about him. i don't know how popular that is going forward into the campaign season. the only way the candidates -- things will move ahead. they'll move up their name i.d. is putting policies ahead. >> i think that's interesting. digging deeper into the other questions. i'll read one line. of those surveyed in this poll,

more than 90% supported a green new dale. 81% were in favor of a candidate who attacks vijts with more than -- would tax individuals with more than $50 million in wealth. what do those numbers tell you about the way this is shaping up? >> i think it's showing it's not a schism. the party is quite left on a lot of issues. there are people who are -- who want bernie's and warren's policies but say they're voting for biden because they remember him and feel like he's a nice guy. i think you're right. more so than the names at the top, it represents how people want to approach going after donald trump. and so, the biden lane of people want to approach it by appealing to moderates and independents and people who haven't made a decision yet, right? the people in the sanders lane want to approach it by inspiring, riling up, getting

young people to the polls. inspire the base to a place where they're at a frenzy. that's what the poll represents. way more than just the names at the top. >> apologize. do the moderates lack all conviction. you watch john hickenlooper not able to call himself a capitalist. sit harder to stake your claim as a moderate? >> no. one of the interesting things in the poll are that 70% of the democrats in iowa say joe biden is not too liberal and not too conservative. right in the middle. that lines up with a poll from harvard that shows the number of moderate democrats outnumbers the progressive democrats. joe bide condition speak to a level of accomplishments. he can say i overawe -- >> the original new deal. >> really? >> i oversaw the stimulus that created jobs through solar

energy, battery cells, wind power. he can say, instead of medicare for all, i helped pass the affordable care act. he of everyone in the field has foreign policy experience. if we have seen the lack of experience with this president overseas, it's disastrous. you look what joe biden talked about in the munich security conference a few weeks ago, that was presidential. >> february 3, 2020. the date of the iowa caucuses. we have time yet to continue talking about this. up next, democrats hoping to question the president's son-in-law and senior adviser jared kushner, his daughter, ivanka trump, as well. they would run into a major road block. would run into a major rd block.

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welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. our president trump's children entitled to the same privileges and proe teks as their father? that may be the case in the eyes of some politician. house democrats are torn of how to divide ivanka's time in the white house. it comes on the heels of a report. the house oversite committee has obtained documents about jared and ivanka's security clearance.

the trump family is not offlimits according to the speaker of the house, whomever falls into that net falls into that net, she said. they'red a vidsers to the president. they have security clearances. this is not their children at home. jackie, i want to start with you? jerry nad ler saying they have to be as accountable as everybody else. we have to do our job. we're not krotsdsing any lines. >> if you take a step back, it's unfortunate that we have gotten to this point in the situation that there are so many investigations going on. manager that is very valid. the president's children who shouldn't potentially have access to this information because of things this their background and ties to certain foreign investors are a problem. that tl are so many ball in the air i think the thinking is that it would endangerer potentially

securing the president's tax returns or moving forward in other ways. and not making congress and house democrats especially seemingly overly political. but, at the end of the day, sit problematic. there are concerns that jared occurer in who is having private meetings with mohammed bin sal man -- salman but we wouldn't know. >> the axios report was stunning. to debt more insight. what jerry nad ler was saying, yes, they're the president's children. but they're people in his administration. >> this president made a decision to make his children, his son-in-law, senior advisers as president. that's the context you should look at this. i was cleared four times for

security clearances. when they interview your friends, they ask, is this person susceptible to blackmail? is this person loyal to the united states? that's a remarkably low bar. if you can't say that, it's remarkable. at least 30 trump officials had issues with security clearances that were raised by career officials. and those concerns were overridden by political people. there are 30 other people walking around with security clearances that shouldn't have them. >> is there an appetite to do it? i quoted pelosi and nadler as well. >> i loved the shade in pelosi's quote. she was like, this is the white house. she was basically saying, you're not in trump tower anymore. you don't get to have the run of this play anymore. you don't own the building. and so, yes.

definitely, there is a desire to get behind this. a desire to see what motivates this president. to see what motivates his family. he keeps saying things. we don't understand why he would back, you know, a north korean dictator. why he would back putin. we don't know why, um, you know, jared loves to -- with mohammed bin salman so much. if you understand what is motivating them, like billions of dollars in debt -- #gaggle of gifters. that's it. we need to understand these things. these will explain the weird stuff that we've been seeing for the last two years. >> we have to stop calling them children, all right? donald trump jr. is 41. ivanka is 37. these people are too old to hang out with r. kelly, they're old enough to be investigated and

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2020 candidate osen the trail in battleground state ace cross the country this morning. many of them have been in austin, texas, at the south by southwest festival. today, senator bernie sanders makes his first stop of the 2020 campaign season in new hampshire. right next to his home state. it's considered a must-win state for the senator. back in 2016, there was a 22-point victory. i'm sure that will be front of mind for the senator today when he speaks there in concord. >> it kind of has to be, david. this was a state that propelled him in 2016 and aloud him to keep going and giving hillary clinton that protracted primary fight. a lot of voters said that is top of mind for them. yes, here in new hampshire but across the board. the thing here in new hampshire is that he's not just a vermont senator. but unlike in 2016, he has a lot of other people trying to fill

that same lane that he filled in 2016 by himself. and so, it's going to be interesting to see if bernie sanders can still come out with the same level of support. one of the things that makes he think he should feel good today is not just because of being here in new hampshire, a place that he won. but also a recent iowa poll that came out last night that shows he's looking good in that state, as well. he didn't win there in 2016. he made it close. that is something voters are keeping front of mind in iowa. and it's bernie sanders and joe biden at the top of the field. sanders must be feeling good. but joe biden is someone with a good lead. >> i don't know what they're called behind you. that event starting at 11:30. chris, i want to start with you. more than half dozen democratic leader, act vis who endorsed the have the senator in 2016 said they were hesitant to do it

again. they're passing over the 76-year-old in search of fresh energy. others said 11 months away from the primary, it's simply too early to make a point. you're a gray beard in the democrat party. you're a superdelegate. walk us through the calculus that they're walking through. >> in one level, it reflects the depth in the pool. so much of bernie sanders' message has been co-opted by other parts of the party. we're talking about medicare for all. free community colleges. these are pretty orthodox democratic ideas. in part because of the great work sanders did in 2016. he had the right message the 2016. he may be the wrong messenger in 2020. the other challenge is there is a senator from a neighboring state, elizabeth warren, who, in many ways, occupies the same lane. he may never be the first choice

of people in the party. but he has such an enthusiast ix base. he has so much money. he'll be there to the end. whether it's biden, harris, o'rourke, it will be one of the. there is a question about democrats broadly and how senator sanders figures in. >> for the record it's granite staters. >> i'll hear about it on twitter. >> you have done great reporting on senator sherrod brown who backed out of the race this week. he's interesting because he coopted the space between bernie sanders and joe biden. do you think he made a mistake by not jumping in? >> it's a great question. who knows? honestly, to me sherrod brown had one of the most succinct and poignant messages throughout this time of 2020 campaigning. a lot of crowd s responded to

that and having spent time around trump supporters and the. ka pain. they are not party loyal. they are candidate loyal. a lot of supporters i found in states like ohio and across the country are open to looking at democrats. at least that's what they have told me. i think someone will have to pick up the mantle. whether it's bernie sanders who had crossover in terms of the message on trade with trump in 2016. i think someone will have to pick up the mantle. it could be joe biden or bernie sanders. it's a lane that's open for the taking. if joe biden doesn't jump in the question is who the next person to assume the mantle will be. that's what i'm watching for. >> the dignity of work. that four word phrase is something we heard from brown over and over. can that be picked up?

>> apparently by a white man. maybe sanders, maybe biden. that defines trump voters. independently minded people just want a nice white man to vote for which is why i don't care about iowa or new hampshire. i don't care what happens until minorities get a say in the process. that doesn't happen until south carolina, nevada. instead of going to new hampshire let's have bernie sanders down in south carolina. let's have the fight there. if he can win there -- if bernie sanders wins south carolina that will do for him what barack obama winning iowa did for barack obama. >> we have been trying to get ali to a snowy location. it's happening. the democratic senator will go down to campaign on thursday. what's the reception going to be like? >> it's a good question. i hope i get to go.

being in the snow is getting old. but when you get to south carolina, the question is it's a majority of democratic voters there. you have people like kamala harris. her campaign said to me she's trying to make black women specifically a key part of the constituency. you have a lot of competition in a place like south carolina for someone like bernie sanders. what he has been doing differently this time that he didn't do much in 2016 is he's been giving us more of, yes, his personal narrative, his roots in activism. he's trying to target and reach out more to a diverse audience. as one of your panelists mentioned, new hampshire and iowa are places of predominantly white voters. for bernie sanders it is incumbent on him to make the pitch to black, hispanic voters and try to broaden the coalition of support i don't know that he did in 2016 and a way he has to in 2020 to be competitive against some of the other

campaigns against booker, harris, castro. >> let's talk about bernie 2.0. we heard about that in brooklyn, kicking off the campaign. ali mentioned the bio is front and center. how easy will it be for him to do that? >> so much of what bernie is and so much of the grand for better or worse is about his supporters. about how supporters react to him. how they react to other people talking about bernie. that's become part of who he is. it may not come across to minorities that he's opening the way to everybody else. by the way, amy klobuchar has talked about the dignity of work. so has kamala harris. everybody is picking up this mantle. we know what we have to do as democrats, i think, in terms of speaking to the middle class, talking to working men.

they've got nothing over the last two and a half years. they are not going to get anything as this goes on. congress is paralyzed. i tell it to my sources on wall street. you know, if they expect anything to happen legislatively they better hold their breath. it won't happen. people know they just got screwed here. they want someone to talk to them. the whole democratic party will be willing to do that. >> chris, what are you watching as this unfolds? there is a familiar rotation to where each of the candidates is going with the unexpected stop in boston where they camped for barbecue and margaritas this weekend. how will they set themselves apart? >> we are in the easy part of the race. is only thing you can control is the campaign roll-out and the money you raise. you have to say kamala harris has done exceedingly well. she's raised a good amount of money. we have seen elizabeth warren struggle a little bit with money. i think if biden decides to jump

in, beto o'rourke, how well they execute those easy parts. the hard part is every misstep you make in every diner in iowa. the debates are coming up. we are in silly season. tiny mistakes, policy differences, missteps will be magnified. this is the easy part. many people aren't executing this part. >> with our fingers crossed that ali will be on the flight to south carolina, our thanks to her in concord this morning. thanks to chris lu, linette lopez as well. up next, the reporters behind the bombshell story that mother jones published on the day spa linked to robert kraft. the daya linked to robert kraft eployed. i video chatted the entire birth. i had great connectivity. his entire platoon was standing next to him. they kept telling me, "you gotta push! you gotta push!" they all got to meet forest, all together. about 50 of them. and they all started crying.

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