had and in many ways, it is the entire culture of wealth that says that is what the pursuit of wealth is about. it's about not only getting in through a guaranteed side door but getting in in a way that says you deserve to be there even knowing that you got in through the side door and that's the system in which they are trying to preserve. >> thank you both. that is "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts now. >> thank, you chris. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. the indonesia plane crash that happened at the end of the october lion air flight 610. 189 people were killed. the investigation into that crash showed that the pilots had the plane unexpectedly go nose down on them while they were trying to lift it up. that was a boeing 737 max 8. boeing 737 is the most popular, the most widely sold modern passenger aircraft in the world,

and this is the new 737. this was a new plane. the new iteration of that workhorse of the commercial aviation industry, but in that new plane something happened shortly after take off in october. the pilots were reportedly basically wrestling with the plane trying to get the nose up but an automatic leveling future in the plane seems to have been fighting them pushing the nose down. the pilots on that flight requested permission to return to the airport because of the trouble they were having with that aircraft, but shortly after making that request, the plane went down, hit the ocean. 189 people killed. then this weekend on sunday,ethe 737 max 8. the new ititeration. 157 people were killed and the circumstances appear to have been remarkably similar. the investigation into the crash

this weekend in ethiopia has just begun. we don't know how closely it will be mapped onto the circumstances of that other recent plane crash of that other same kind of plane in indonesia, but this one was very soon after take off, while the plane was ascending, flight data shows the plane initially assented as normal then descended, then it ascended sharply again while accelerating and as in the previous crash in indonesia, the pilot radioed back and asked to return to the airport from which he had just taken off because of the trouble he was having with the aircraft but soon after relaying that request, again, the flight crashed. no survivors. 157 people dead. now it was the same kind of plane in each crash. boeing insists these planes are safe. but after these two crashes, under remarkably similar circumstances, nearly 350 people killed between them, i mean, in

the modern age, in the modern aviation age, trained commercial pilots flying large commercial passenger jets just don't crash them very often. this doesn't happen let alone twice in five months. and you know maybe it's just a coincidence that these two brand-new jets of the exact same kind came down in similar circumstances within just a few months of each other, but now that both of these crashes have happened in this close proximity, news organizations including the a.p. and dallas morning news this afternoon today have been scanning a u.s. database where american commercial pilots can voluntarily report aviation incidents and aviation concerns. and it turns out that in this publicly accessible data base, there is a whole bunch of reports that show american pilots flying american commercial flights expressing

not just concerns about this particular new boeing aircraft but american pilots on domestic flights describing the same difficulty on take off, the same specific problem where they are ascending after take off, rising towards the cruising altitude when something in the automated systems in that plane basically takes over and pulls the nose down. here is one from a first officer. so from basically the co-pilot of a boeing 737 max. this is a u.s. flight that happened sometime in november 2018. quote, day three of three departing in a max 8 after a long overnight, i was well rested. on departure we had strong cross winds directly off the right wing. the aircraft accelerated normally and the captain engaged the a auto pilot after reaching set speed. within two to three seconds, the aircraft pitched nose down. i called descending just prior to an aircraft safety system

sounding, don't sync, the captain disconnected auto pilot and pitched into a claim. the remainder of the flight was uneventful. we discussed the departure at month and i reviewed the setup and flight profile but can't think of any reason the aircraft would pitch nose down so aggressively. that's from a first officer. here is another one. this one is from an american captain this time from the pilot. reporting on a domestic flight in the united states, again sometime in november of 2018 and this captain describes a remarkably similar circumstance. after what the captain describes as a take off and climb in light to moderate turbulence, the plane's nose started to dive. quote, the pilot monitoring system called descending followed by an almost immediate don't sync, don't sync. the pilot monitoring system called descending but an almost immediate don't sink, don't

sink. it was engaged and resumed climb. with the concerns with the max 8 nose down stuff, we both thought it appropriate to bring it to your attention. so in this data base, again, this place where pilots and first officers can report concerns and flight difficulty without worrying about career repercussions for themselves, they post this information and allow it to go into this data base, the end is blunt. captain reports auto pilot anomaly that lead to an undesired nose down brief situation. so these things -- i mean, these are out there in this public data base. quote, aircraft pitched nose down after engaging auto pilot on departure. and, you know, i am not a trained aviation professional, statistically speaking, neither are you but safety professionals, the world over

are all having the same reaction to all of this news. as of today, the list of countries that has suspended all flights of this specific type of boeing aircraft includes the u.k., france, germany, australia, china, singapore, uea, kuwait, malaysia, indone a indonesia, stop he when you heard enough. after a bunch of major european countries started individually banning 737 max 8s today the overall safety regulator for the european union stepped in and for the e.u. blocked all flights by these boeing planes in addition to specific airlines taking it upon themselves to stop flights by these planes whether or not their country of origin or country banned them, and this is -- i mean, this is an unequivocal reaction everywhere outside the united states. some countries including the u.k. aren't just banning take offs and landings but banning

over flights by these planes. which means they won't allow these planes to be flown over their air space. these flights are to be kept -- these planes are to be kept out of their air space until further notice even if they don't plan on lending inside the u.k. but that's not how it's been handled in the united states which is the international gold standered and international artaylor as passenger airline safety standards. as these global airlines and countries around the world banned flights by these boeing aircraft, here is our faa as of tonight. quote, thus far our review shows no system performance issues and provides no basis to order grounding the aircraft. now i mean, this could be happening at any time in modern american history, right? this type of crisis in the

global aviation industry is the sort of technology driven surprise external security crisis that you don't wish on anybody, right? it makes you wish and hope and pray for competence and capacity in the leadership you've got that has to deal with the crisis like this at all levels. right? this is the sort of thing that wants you to have really good, really smart, really qualified people in place when this crisis araisi arising. when this happens now at this point in our country, of course, we have some novel concerns right now in our country that we might not necessarily have with any other president in place, with any other presidential administration in place for example, that statement from the f.a.a. today saying everything is fine as far as they can tell, everything is fine, no need to worry you can see that statement was put out in the name of the

acting f. act fiing faa administrator but is a little bit odd if you think about it this far into the trump administration, more than two years into the trump presidency, why do we still have an acting administrator in place at faa? he has been there since president obama's faa administrator left the job when his term came to an end in january 2018 well over a year ago and again, i'm not casting aspersions whatsoever but the reason there isn't a senate confirmed official pearl innocent le -- permanent leader is because president trump hasn't formally nominated anybody for the job. within the last few days he said that -- or it's been report that he is expected to name ade delt executive for the job but nobody is nominated yet and this time last year the guy he was putting forward as his first choice for

the job, remember that? own personal pilot, president trump wanted to install as the ad minuadministrator of the faa guy that flies the trump plane. not air force one but the plane that says trump on it. remember the one from the campaign? i remember at the time they even tried to roll this out like it was some sort of, you know, some sort of like bold smart move by trump he would tap his own plane's pilot to run the faa. they rolled out an anonymous administration official to try to sell reporters on it. quote, john duncan isn't just a pilot, he over saw the trump presidential campaign's air fleet. says anonymous white house official put out for this purpose. he over saw the trump campaign's air fleet. wow. no one is disputing that's true but remember during the campaign when the trump presidential campaign plane got grounded for

awhile? the heat of the campaign. like april, late april 2016. the reason his campaign plane got grounded is because it turned out they have been flying that jet for months without it being registered. oops. yeah, well, the director of aviation for the trump organization who is responsible both for flying the plane and for directing all aviation operations for making sure that stuff like i don't know, the plane is registered so it can legally fly, that's the guy who president trump initially tapped to put in charge of america's $18 billion federal regulatory agency overseeing the international gold standard in airline safety. he's so good at flying my plane except for the fact that it's un -- well, you know, look, he's an expert, he works for me. he's got to be the best. only the best people. that did not work out. that time the president wanted to nominate his personal pilot to run the faa, that did not ultimately come to fruition but

apparently, that's the only person he wanted is as far as he can imagine in terms of a good person for the job. here we are two years into the trump administration, there is still an acting director and now tonight, the faa increasingly stands alone on the international stage in saying these boeing planes are fine. we see no problem whatsoever here. and again, there are just novel concerns we never had to think about before this presidency. but since president trump has been in office, the ceo of boeing, the company that makes these planes has made a point of visiting with the president at the private for profit club mar-a-lago since this crisis has emerged, it's reported today that same ceo has been personally lobbying the president by phone surely reminding him of his mar-a-lago trips and telling him the plane is great and no problem and shouldn't be grounded here in the united states. everything is fine. boeing says they are fine and as of right now, that's what the

faa is saying, too, alone in the world. now that position by the president and by the faa is being rejected on a bipartisan basis on capitol hill rejected by senators who range from elizabeth warren to ted cruz to d diane feinstein to mitt romney. there are multiple bipartisan statements from senators all over the country defying the president on this and defying the faa calling on these planes to be grounded in the united states like they are all around the world. senator cruz oversees a sea -- a key subcommittee that has oversight responsibilities in the aviation industry senator cruz says he will convene an emergency hearing to try to address this matter. you might remember back in the obama administration in 2013 there was another boeing plane that was ordered grounded all across the united states. do you remember that? that wasn't the 737, that was

the boeing 787 and back in 2013, all of those planes were grounded on orders from the u.s. government when there was what seemed to be a reoccurring problem with over heating battery packs, over heating lithium ion batty ery packs andt that time, president obama's treasury secretary ordered boeing to ground the 787s and lasted less than a month, boeing crafted a new part of little fire resistant compartment to put around those batteries and that passed muster and ultimately, the planes were become up and flying. the transportation secretary in the obama administration was former republican congressman ray la hood and spoke with the associated press today in the context of this new crisis. he pointed out today that even if the faa continues with this line that everything is fine, nothing is worth worrying about here, we're not going to do anything, if the faa hues to

this line, ray la hood is pointing out that trump's transportation secretary who is now eileen chow, she has the power if she so chooses to overall the faa and to herself order the grounding of these boeing 737s if she feels like it is warranted, she can do it on her own say so as secretary of transportation. ray la hood reminding transportation secretary eileen chow of her power to do so and calling on her to do that in the case of these boeing 737 maxes. these planes are being grounded all over the world. in some cases, not just take offs and landings but oversights. airlines all over the world are stopping flying these boeing planes. in some cases today, airlines that had flights in the air, this type of plane in the air, in some cases airlines today

turned those flights around midair, flew them back to where they started and grounded them once they landed. wouldn't even let them complete their flights. while here in the united states we've got a president whose been perm ly personally chatting to the ceo on this matter telling him everything is fine, nothing is worth worrying about here, hey, do you maybe want to play golf next week? the president's faa would now be led by the president's pilot from his own private jet if the president had had his way on the matter with the faa, but he didn't. as a consolation prize, we still have no permanent person running that agency more than two years into this presidency. the faa for its part in all this says everything is fine. no need to worry. now congress may try to act including republicans in congress who may try to act. the transportation secretary has the option to act although she is the wife of the top republican in the senate, mitch

mcconnell so maybe it's hard to imagine her making such a decision inside the political cross winds. but there is one other piece of this that you may not have heard about today that you should know about in the middle of this crisis. and honestly, you should know about it because i think it will curl your hair. again, remember based on these two recent crashes of this type of plane that have killed almost 350 people, based on those crashes and based on other similar descriptions from american pilots describing domestic flights in the u.s. in this type of plane, describing a similar problem they have encountered in these planes, remember that what pilots at least are describing as the problem here, what their perceived problem with this aircraft is, appears to be related to some kind of automated system, automated leveling system in this plane that for some reason on departure has a propensity of

episode of a problem in which it unexpectedly yanks the plane's nose down toward the ground when the plane is supposed to be climbing. well, the good news is it turns out that boeing has in the works a software fix that they believe will address that problem in these planes. good. the "wall street journal" had the scoop on this this afternoon and where it ends is not good. but here is where it starts, quote, boeing is making an extensive change to the flight control system in these 737 max aircraft. going beyond what many industry officials familiar with the discussions anticipated. the change would mark a major shift how boeing originally designed a stall prevention feature in the aircraft. the company spokesman confirmed the update would use multiple sensors and data feeds in the stall prevention system instead

of the current reliance and prompted by lion air and those crash investigation results indicated that erroneous data from a single sensor that measures the angle of the plane's nose caused the stall prevention system to misfire and a series of events put the aircraft into a dangerous dive. the anticipated software fix from boeing will limit the extent of the flight control systems downward push on the plane's nose. that seeps lims like a good ide. how soon will it be ready? u.s. regulators are expected to mandate this change by the end of next month. okay. so that's still a ways off but in the works and they believe they got a way to fix the accidental nosedive problem.

you know, why didn't you say so? how soon could this have been ready? should it have been ready before the ethiopia plane crash that killed 157 people? is the back story on the timing of when this will be rolled out and ready? software fix to this particular flight control feature had been expected early in january. discussions dragged on. officials in various parts had differing view how it should be. the shutdown halted work on the fix entirely for five weeks. so did everybody enjoy their 35-day government shutdown? i mean, you might have thought we got nothing out of that as a country but turns out not just us but the whole world got something. we got a five-week delay in the implantation of the software that they think will solve the

unexpected nosedive problem in the boeing 737 max 8 jets, and in the meantime, ethiopia airlines flight 302 has crashed killing ma ing more than 150 pe. the investigation is on the heels of the other 737 max 8 crash that happened in indonesia and countries around the world and airlines around the world are grounding these flights. sometimes in the middle of flights turning those flights around and grounding them, grounding these planes prohibiting these planes from flying through their air space and throwing global aviation into chaos and maybe this gets fixed by the end of next month? in the meantime, here in the u.s. continue to enjoy your flights on boeing 737 max 8 aircraft. don't worry, the president talks to the boeing ceo on the phone about it all the time. and the president himself knows aviation after all, he had the best pilot you can ever imagine

who was amazing. he would have been perfect to run the faa. i don't know why anybody didn't go along with it. or, you know, maybe elaine chow will fix it. so you know, it's easy for everybody to take pot shots goov government, right, and the people that run government and work in government until something comes up and you really need it and really need them to be great. you really need them to be up to it and usually in the middle of the crisis, it's too late to go back and make sure you've got all the right people in place, and you made good decisions who ought to be running things. but that crisis is full fledged right now and there are, you know, there is a lot going on. there is a lot else besides that in the news. there is tons of -- there is a ton of plates that are basically spinning in the air right now. the big brexit vote today in the u.k. still not approved by the

british parliament. there will be two more crucial votes over the next two days that will determine the fate what will happen and the u.k. and prospect of a catastrophic economic break between the u.k. and e.u. at the end of the month is still very much live. the on going political crisis in venezuela is unspool ined intoc. we'll have more with chris murphy. the big college cheating scandal that was exposed today is mind boggling. if you did not see chris hayes' show, his discussion, watch the chris hayes' rerun later tonight. he had excellent coverage on this story but today we saw dozens of indictments and arrests announced by the u.s. attorneys office in massachusetts because there are celebrities and rich people and rich famous universities in involved in this scandal, you can expect this to play out for a long while yet but today is day one of this revelation of a

massive bribery and cheating scandal with america's very top colleges. and on top of all of that, the out of control spinning carousal is about to enter one of the most dramatic periods yet. today prosecutors filed notice with the federal court in virginia they want the president's campaign chair paul manafort to pay $25 million in restitution on top of the four-year prison sentence the judge in the case has given him. that restitution part, the $25 million, that will not be addressed by that judge in virginia until after paul manafort is sten tenentenced by different federal judge tomorrow in a different jurisdiction in washington d.c. the sentencing hearing is due to start at 9:30 a.m. and it is federal court so there won't be cameras in the courtroom. there will be lots of reporters in the courtroom.

you should expect live coverage soon after that hearing starts tomorrow. that's paul manafort's second federal sentencing tomorrow 9:30 in the morning eastern time facing up to an additional ten years in prison. and tonight, i am told since we have been on the air, that's what this is that was delivered to me moments ago, i'm told we got an update from prosecutors in the special counsel's office on the troubling case of mike flynn. you'll remember that mike flynn was essentially thrown out of his sentencing hearing in december by a federal judge who was sort of all but warning him that he was not going to like his sentence if he went ahead with it that day in december. wouldn't general flynn like to go back to go work with prosecutors some more to see if he could become a better cooperator and do anything else to mitigate the sentence this judge was prepared to give him that day and that court in december. general flynn finally realized what the judge was trying to tell him and agreed he would go

back and cooperate further and try to improve his station further before this judge sentenced him three months ago. tonight is the first time we have heard from prosecutors since about what has happened between them and mike flynn since that bizarre and dramatic day in the courtroom in december when his sentencing got called off. there will be a status conference in the flynn case tomorrow, we've just started to get the documents -- we just started to get in tonight the documents that will be the pred kit of t -- prhearing, that's just happening right now and on top of all of that, authorities in new york state interestingly in both the legislature and in law enforcement, in the attorney general's office, they have started today to turn their own state level law enforcement resources on this president and his business and they are starting to do it like they have him in a tractor beam.

state law enforcement sounds less threatening talking about a federal elected official like a president and in this case, don't be so sure. and in this case, specifically, there may be some special problems for this president when it comes to the prospect of state level charges or even investigations emanating from new york state targeted at him and his family and his business. so we've got more on that coming up, as well but again, we'll have breaking news for you on what's expected tomorrow from mike flynn, the president's national security advisor who looks like he may finally be facing the music that hearing is tomorrow and that story is next. stay with us. tomorrow and that story is next. stay with us ♪ one plus one equals too little too late ♪ ♪ a sock-a-bam-boom ♪ who's in the room? ♪ love is dangerous ♪ but driving safe means you pay less ♪ ♪ switch and save ♪ yes, ma'am excuse me, miss. ♪ does this heart belong to you? ♪ ♪ would you like it anyway?

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we have news on the special counsel's case about mike flynn. we have been watching for a crucial status update on his case in d.c. as of tomorrow. this would be the most substantial up date on the flynn case since he went through that disaster sentence hearing. the judge in his case flynn all be betrayed his country ask suggested flynn consider not being sentenced that day so he

could cooperate some more and try to improve his circumstances and what we expected to get tomorrow in a status report in the flynn case was basically a sense of how that cooperation has been going. now in a new filing that's just been put in this hour, we have essentially got the news ahead of time. what we've got is a quick joint status report between the prosecutors and the defense in which the defense lawyers for flynn ask basically for another 90 days before his sentencing goes ahead. i'll read you from the filing. quote on december 18th, 2018 the court held a sentencing hearing in this matter and the defendant requested ed ed a continue wedn to allow him to complete his cooperation. at this time the defendant continues to request a continue wednesday the government,

meaning the prosecutors and no request for a continuing however, this is interesting, while the defendant remains in a position to cooperate with law enforcement authorities and could testify in the edva case should it proceed to trial, in the government's view flynn's cooperation is otherwise complete. so that's the special counsel's office saying they are done with flynn if the defendant wants to go another 90 days that's fine. the related case in edva is flynn's former business partner charged with some of the things that flynn admitted to with unregistered lobbying. right now he's pled not guilty to go on trial july 15th. his lawyers say he may need to testify and continue to

cooperate in that case. special counsel's office is saying okay, maybe and if you want another 90 days, we don't object but we're done talking to him. fascinating. we'll wait for the judge's order here in response to this if the court grants this request, it would press it june 10th. he still won't have gone to trial at that point so i'm not sure why they asked for 90 day s and not 120 days to encompass the start of the trial but we'll see. mike flynn, if the judge says yes, on the hook for another 09 -- 90 days and sentencing to follow. we'll keep you posted. stay with us. o follow we'll keep you posted. stay with us 90 days and sentenc follow. we'll keep you posted. stay with us. days and sentencin. we'll keep you posted. stay with us. we'll keep you posted. stay with us it extends with a protective shield and targets weeds more precisely. it lets you kill what's bad right down to the root

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the healthcare provider-patient it's like nothing else. the trump-pence administration just issued a gag rule which would block providers across the country from giving full information to women about their reproductive healthcare, a move the american medical association said would "dangerously interfere with the patient-physician relationship." they trust that i will be providing them with complete information. with the gag rule, the consequences would be devastating for women in my community and across the country. dearest britain. we love you. maybe it's your big hearts. your sense of style. welcome to ba100. (ba100, you're clear for take-off). how you follow your own path. you've led revolutions... of all kinds. yet you won't shout about it. it's just not in your nature.

instead, you'll quietly make history. cake. beds. poetry. trouble. love! hope! and rather a lot of tea. the best of britain, from the moment you step on board. joining us is joyce vance. thank you for joining us tonight. i'm so happy you're here. >> thanks for having me. >> so i did not expect to get this news involving mike flynn and his potential sentencing until tomorrow which is when the status report was due but come out ahead of schedule. we got a joint status report from defense lawyers and prosecutors. bottom line appears to be that flynn's defense is asking for another 90 days before that judge considers going back to the process of sentencing him. after we saw these dramatic, that dramatic hearing in december where we thought flynn

was going to be sentenced and got called off in the middle of that hearing, what do you make of this development tonight? >> you know, i think general flynn was very frightened by judge sullivan's approach in that case. he was not -- he made it very clear that he wasn't interested in accepting the prosecution's recommendation that general flynn should serve no time in jail and made it clear flynn should take advantage of the cop tu -- opportunity to go back and cooperate. flynn makes it clear he would like to have additional time to testify in the trial involving his former business partner or let that case conclude with plea agreements as a measure of worthiness to the judge and the government says they don't take a position in the case and stand by their recommendation flynn received no time but you can tell there is a little edge here and he wants to do as much as he can before he has to go back into that courtroom.

>> and with the government, with the prosecutors pledging and saying we don't take a position and we recognize that's what he's asking for and done. would you expect the judge to aseed go with this request given not prosecutors aren't involving themselves in this process at all? >> it's really good question. i suppose it will come down to whether or not the judge is satisfied, whether the prosecution submits additional information or the judge has a change of heart or whether he really wants to see flynn go down to the very last, you know, finishing spot. i will say rachel, it's unusual for prosecutors to be willing to give a cooperator credit at sentencing before his cooperation is done and he testifies in the last case and cooperation is complete. there is something we don't know bob mueller's team does. >> in terms of looking ahead to the news tomorrow, we're waiting

for the judge's order in response to the joint submission in the flynn case. in the manafort case, we'll have the second sentencing hearing tomorrow. anything we should be watching for in particular as that sentencing hearing takes shape tomorrow morning? >> i think the most important outcome of that sentence will be seeing whether judge jackson runs the sentence that she gives in d.c. concurrent or consecutive. that means will manafort get to serve the two sentences essentially at the same time or does he have to serve first one and then the other. if she gives him the maximum that she can give him, which is about ten years and he has to serve that after the sentence in virginia, he's looking at a much longer sentence than if she runs them together. >> and that's totally within -- that's within her per view. that's her description. >> joyce vance, thank you for

joining us tonight. much appreciated. >> thanks. all right. still lots more to get to tonight. stay with us. still lots more to get to tonight. stay with us

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gillette. >> on december 23rd, he declared himself president of the country and had an arguably claim after a botched presidential election and given what venezuela's contusion says you're supposed to do and that sort of eventual alty, him being the leader game hiv a claim to the title of being the country's rightful president. the u.s. wasn't the first country to do so but it mitt ul, the trump administration said they would officially recognize him as the leader of that country. in response, venezuela president nickelous maduro said he'd break off all diplomatic relations with the united states and ordered all u.s. diplomats should leave that country within 72 hours. the state department responded by saying no, basically no, and

who are you? they said they had no plans for evacuating u.s. officials and would maintain diplomatic relations with the interim president juan and that's the u.s. putting a line in the stand who they believe to be the legitimate leader. on the other hand, it was a difficult response because the person who still runs that country and still controls the military still is nickelous maduro. so one lingering question for the u.s. is are our diplomats safe there? do they have proper security in place? are we putting them in undue danger given the standoff and us not recognizing the leader of that country as who he says he is. by the following day, the state department changed its mind and they did order all non-essential u.s. government employees to leave venezuela. the state department continued to maintain a diplomatic

president in venezuela, a smaller one where we left it as of january 24th. that changed last night. mike pam pompeo saying the u.s.l withdraw all this week siting the deteriorating situation in the country much of venezuela has been without power and hospitals struggling to keep equipment running and food is rotting and the water distribution system is down and you can only live without water for so long. even the u.s. embassy is currently not connected to water or electricity. without electricity in particular, our diplomats have no way of communicating with h.h h.h h.q. in the united states. it's not clear what happens next and what it means if we're pulling all our diplomatic personnel out now. does that mean we're giving up on any u.s. presence in venezuela, any diplomatic ef

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reading from this travel advisory quote, they announced the temporary separation of operations from the u.s. embassy in caracus.

they are not providing any withdrawal of diplomatic personnel. the u.s. echl abc in caracas should depart venezuela. the situation on the ground there has deteriorated into disaster. joining us is chris murphy from connecticut. chris, thank you for joining us. much appreciate it. >> sure. >> there's a lot of news all the time now, localitits of home gr crises. the president campaign chairman is about find out how long he'll spend in federal prison. you've been telling americans to basically be aware about what's going on in venezuela, about what our own government appears to be doing there now. what is your concern? what do you think people should be watching for? >> there's been plenty of reporting going back at least a year about president trump's inquiries about military intervention in venezuela. it's curious because the

president seems to get along swimmingly with other brutal dictators around the world, but for whatever reason he has pegged nicolas maduro about someone he will get along differently with. he calls this a new free and fair election, but there is no pathway to maduro to usher in a new regime. it runs through u.s. military intervention. the u.s. has cooled its talk of military intervention generally over the last week, but there is no doubt that president trump has had a lot of interest in that kind of move in venezuela, and i think it's just important for all of us to make sure that we are not setting ourselves up for a giant mistake there. when we pull our diplomats out today, i will note that one of the reasons we said was because it was constraining our options in venezuela. some people read that to mean that with our diplomats there,

military intervention was harder. >> you wrote on line today that, essentially raising the prospect the u.s. might be trying to start a civil war in venezuela for no real plan on how it ends. when you fwatalk about that kinf scenario, is that what you're talking about with military intervention? is there some kind of bank shot that the united states government might be trying to pull off in trying to achieve the sort of ends you're describing there. how do you think they'll pull off doing what you think they're going to do? >> we made a big call here. we called maduro illegitimate, and we recognized guaido as a leader of the country, and we did that without a real well-thought-out plan for how we were going to execute that. one of my worries is that we have used humanitarian aid as a political tool, trying to use it as a means to try to promote

regime change instead of really staying single-mindedly focused of getting the humanitarian relief on the ground. there is a pathway, a diplomatic pathway, but it runs through country like china and cuba and russia. countries that the trump administration really cannot deal with today. we're in the middle of a trade war with china that basically eliminates our ability to try to get them to the table on venezuela. the trump administration has reversed the cooling off with cuba that would have, if not reversed, allowed us to talk to the cubans about a pathway forward. there are not a lot of people we can work with to try to land this plane in venezuela, and we don't seem to have any other solid means by which to make good on this promise we made that guaido would eventually be made president. and then my worry becomes if all those other options are off the table, does somebody make a mistake here and move forward with some kind of military option? >> right. and this latest surprise move with all u.s. personnel being pulled from venezuela after the

u.s. was initially resisting that, that at least has been taken to worry for that prospect. chris murphy, thank you for being here. come back any time. i would love more conversation on this. we'll be back with a last little bit of breaking news, i'm told. stay with us. we humans are strange creatures. other species avoid pain and struggle. we actually... seek it out. other species do difficult things because they have to. we do difficult things. because we like to.

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before we go tonight, some late-breaking news from california. nbc4 in los angeles is reporting

that the new governor in california, gavin newsom, is planning to take government action to eliminate the death penalty in california. nbc4 reporting that governor w newsom has been calling on elected officials saying he's about to do this on his own. if this is about to happen, we think we may hear the details from the governor at a news conference he has called for 10:00 a.m. pacific time tomorrow. it will not be a total surprise if that's what he's about to do. newsom has been telegraphing this for some time. he said the minute i got into the position, i wanted to change the issue. i want to be proactive. california has had the death penalty since 1978 when california voters reinstated it in a statewide ballot. california also operates one of the largest prison systems in the world.