>> wonderful, wonderful. that's for for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. good morning. i'm philip mena at nbc headquarters in new york. 6:00 in the east. 3:00 out west, and here's what's happening. >> i see a man with an army uniform, and i said, who the hell are you? >> a hero's story from the new zealand terror attack. today, two different versions emerge about the police response to the massacre. students suing schools amid the college admissions scandal. today's take on the latest legal arguments. the president turning to twitter, and not letting go of an old grudge. plus, the call to fine jared and ivanka $1,000 a day for

working in the white house. we again with the two attacks on new knew zealland's mosque's. one victim found clearing the shooting sites. 36 patients remain in the hospital. among them two children and 12 under intensive care. prime minister jacinda ardern admits her office received a manifesto nine minutes before the attacks and said the laws would be changed. those living through their own nightmares. >> it went quiet. thought it was all over. so i called, and he came back and i hung up and i -- kept shoot income the pile i was in. it just looked like a slaughter house. >> nbc's sara james joining us now from christchurch. sarah, it is sunday night. workers getting ready for the

first work day since the attacks. what are they saying there? >> reporter: they're saying the most important thing for this city and indeed the entire country is public safety. that's their focus. they will have an additional 124 police officers who will be on the street. also we've had -- they will also focus on getting the bodies of the victims back to the families. of course, that's been an additional form of anguish in what has already been just a dreadful time for this city. a very big job, a difficult job, forensics have to be taken care of. brought in six additional people from australia to help with that job and believe they'll have the victims back to their families by wednesday night. we're also learning more details about what happened, including some acts the heroism, including by abdul zaba who confronted the shooter picking up one of the

discarded guns. here's what happened next. >> the gun i had in my hand, a shotgun, i just throw on him, like an arrow in his window, and his window blast and he thought he got shot or something and then he just swear at me and drove off. >> reporter: and so that was a personal act of heroism that took place. there are some in this community who are raising questions about the police response time and the police had been quick to respond, let's have a listen. >> really upsetting that the police didn't come on time. 17 minutes video i have seen it with me own eyes unfortunately, but there were no one to come and defend them, and the way the killer killed and went out and came and killed again and again is quite upsetting. >> six minutes, and police staff

were on the scene. within ten minutes members of their armed defenders' squad is on-scene and within 36 minutes with had that mobile offender in our custody. >> reporter: so as you can see, there continue to be some questions. i think the authorities here have had an absolutely incredibly difficult situation to deal with. the scale and scope of this, 50 people killed, another 50 people injured. there is still more than 30 people in the hospital. nearly a dozen of them in critical care. it is a very difficult situation for the authorities. the prime minister here jacinda ardern is saying there will be calls for more gun restrictions. that will be playing out in the days ahead. the main focus where i'm standing, again, this is one of

the memorials created. people are bringing flowers, candles, they're bringing teddy bear bears. it's a place to mourn but also a place where people unite and stay strong. >> very unchartered and difficult waters there. sara james, thank you. here in the u.s., the national political dialogue touched by new zealand. democratic presidential candidates condemning president trump for downplaying the white nationalism threat. here is senator cory booker. >> the president's rhetoric, bigoted, sexist rhetoric we've seen from even before his candidacy but all through this candidacy and a president who can't even condemn nazis? that's dangerous. i'm not connecting it, but that is dangerous. >> and joe biden speaking to his home democrats almost declared his run for president. >> i know i get criticized, told i get criticized by the new left. i'm the most progressive of any

running, anybody who would run -- i didn't mean -- [ cheers and applause ] than anybody who would run. >> freudian slip, perhaps? democrats who have officially announced returned to the campaign trail today. my colleague chuck todd showing with senator amy klobuchar and asked her about beto o'rourke saying he was born to run i. have a lot of respect for beto and great to have someone from texas in rate, but, no, ice wasn't born to run for office. just because drgrowing up in th '70s in this country i don't think people thought a girl could be president. i wasn't fworn ruborn to run, b running. >> and why he's running after losing to ted cruz after less than three percentage points. >> i have an opportunity. >> now to do something that i think the country badly needs, or maybe i should put it this

way. i get the chance to be part of something that the country badly needs that is coming together at this very divided moment, not just for the sake of it, that's important enough, coming together to achieve really ambitious goals. >> meanwhile, president trump facing a new wave of criticism wiafterer the president wrote that mccain's record has stains for voting against repealing obamacare. president trump attacked mccain over unconfirmed reports he spread the steel campaign. meghan mccain said no one will ever love you the way he loved my father. spend more time with your family instead of obsessing on twitter over mine. what prompted that tweet? >> you saw the president, as usual, reacting to something he'd seen in the media or watching fox news from his residence here upstairs at the

white house, and a quote from ken starr. former independent counsel who ended up compiling the report that led to the impeachment in the house of representatives of bill clinton. of course, he was acquitted in the senate. but it's sort of ironic that the president wouldish citing ken starr. ken starr in recent interviews insisted it's a a former counsel that a sitting counsel can be indicted when the question comes to the current counsel bob mueller and his investigation as well. no love lost there. we should point out when john mccain gave his famous thumbs down on the floor of senate it wasn't a vote to repeal and replace at the president said, that was a vote on a so-called skinny repeal. something that stuck in the presidential craw ever since it happened. even before that, of course, the president had taken out over john mccain, widely viewed as a hero, held in prison in hanoi,

captive of the vietnamese. the president famously said, i like people who were not indicted. as you pointed out, it's important that we do point out, that john mccain said, yes, he indeed took the dossier. republicans first hired that firm, and the hillary clinton campaign initiated the dossier but mccain said it was my dut to gi duty to give it to the fbi, anybody who thinks otherwise can go to hell. it was my duty to do this. we have no indication that mccain leaked it to any media. >> thanks for joining me. and reporter with politico and author of the political playbook and reporter with "the hill." daniel the president is criticizes the late john mccain. why? what for? is it benefiting him politically

or something? >> surprisingly, a number people in trump's base do not like mccain for denying trump a win on health care and they tend to agree with everything the president says, even if it is unpalatable to a lot of mainstream republicans who think that mccain was a war hero and also a legend in the party as well. it doesn't seem like the president is kind of thinking back to his attendance at mccain's funeral where he was sitting with those foreign presidents, you know that feels like a long time ago to the president, i guess. >> and julie grace, any context for this and why now? >> definitely an interesting attack that i don't think a lot of people saw coming. i think even a lot of republicans in congress would say they disagree with the sentiments there. i would say that it probably is riling his base, but politically i don't see how it helps him.

especially with moderates moving forward. >> something he wanted to get off his chest, perhaps. talk about joe biden. claiming he has "the most pro progressive record as anyone who would run." is that true? >> compared to bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, hard to say the most progressive but he was vice president, helped move the obama agenda, clearly has progressive credentials. interesting to see moving forward 2020 on how that will play with the other candidates. >> daniel, your political colleague gabby orr writes the president has been asking aides about biden's polling numbers. why would the president pay special attention to biden as a potential opponent? >> he's clearly worried that biden could be a tough general election candidate, but his advisers have told him privately that they don't think that he can get through the democratic nomination, but if he does, then

the president might have been actually worried about biden's poll number. there's a lot of concern in the republican party he could get away a lot of those working-class voters. biden was born in scranton, and so he has this authentic connection that hillary clinton and some other democrats don't have to places like wisconsin, ohio, pennsylvania and so that makes those states much easier to get if you're joe biden, and trump is definitely concerned that he won't get some of those moderate independent voters in those states. >> all right. i want to pivot to a topic that, julie grace, you have written about. congressional hispanic caucus, firing longtime workers because of their undocumented status. what are members of congress hoping to find out with this? what evidence are they requesting? >> i had a hard time hearing that question. would you repeat, sorry? >> what evidence are they

requesting? the congressional hispanic caucus demanding investigation into the trump administration due to firing undocumented fat is. what evidence are they trying to get? >> they recently met with a bunch of undocumented workers that had worked for the trump administration and heard stories of mistreatment. so they have called in the fbi to interview these people, to kind of look into the situation, documents, moving forward to see what they can find out. whether there was illegal activity there. >> okay. also talk about ivanka trump and jared kushner, because democratic representative jackie speier introduced legislation to pay $1,000 every day they work for president trump. listen to that we somehow think this is just some little game. it's not a game. it is a very serious consideration. they shouldn't be in the white house as volunteers.

we have rules, and the rules were put in place after bobby kennedy was the attorney general, and that law basically said, no more nepotism. what does this president do? he decides, well, he's going to make his two, his daughter and son-in-law volunteers so they won't be subject to the nepotism law. >> all right, daniel, what's the likelihood of her legislation actually getting passed here? >> hard to see mitch mcconnell putting this legislation on the floor. he's had a good working relationship with jared and ivanka. jared critical with the criminal justice reform that passed congress, and with the couple being worth an estimated $1.1 billion, it's hard to see that paying $1,000 for both of them is going to have much of a dent even though it's very unlikely. i think that is indicative of the fact that the president really trusts his daughter and son-in-law, and he is a

suspicious of many other white house advisers that have worked for him. he views the couple as having a pure agenda but it's also unclear what they've actually accomplished. remember, ivanka trump wanted to save the paris climate accord, did not happen. although she does have a win on trying to make women entrepreneurship more of a priority for the government around the world. >> since we're talking about jared and ivanka, julie grace, what's the latest on the investigation into their security clearances? >> i know recently the chairman of the judiciary committee tried to subpoena some information on that, but it's slightly outside of my beat. i think daniel might have the more information on that one than i do. >> hearing anything about the latest on this investigation or are they just going to let it be? >> no. congress is not going to just drop this matter, and so there's, you know, lots of

probing going into this, and i think we're going to have to -- we're going to see them eventually testify in the house. they might be subpoenaed to get there to explain if the president is correct in that they did not ask him for a security clearance, because there's a lot of reporting that says they complained to the president saying they deserved that security clearance, and then they received it and trump is saying he did not interfere. one side is not telling the truth here. >> daniel, i wanted to ask about one of your recent tweets. you wrote a former senior white house official spoke to you about the national emergency vote and how the president's involvement may have made the vote into more of a media story. wouldn't it have been a huge media story either way? >> his attempt to tamp down the defections backfired on the white house. even though this is not going to be a huge loss for him forever, it caused this narrative for a

couple days it that he was trying to pursue a compromise and trying to prevent republicans from defecting to defeat the national emergency, and he kind of was digging his own grave on this issue. he should have just let democrats and a few republican defectors, do what they wanted to do on the national emergency, and he would have vetoed it and then they would not have the votes to overrule it. instead, he, you know, like so many other issues, just poured fire on this and made it worse for them overall. >> all right. daniel litman and julie grace broski, thank you for taking time this morning. >> thank you. the fallout intensifying for accused parents and universities. how hard will it be to prove damages in these cases? and live your lives. that's why we redesigned humira.

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the fallout following fraud charges against school official and parents is worsening. at least 50 people including actresses felicity huffman and lori loughlin are facing charges and prosecutors could bring more charges forwards. some schools involved included the university of southern california, ucla, georgetown, stanford and yale. joining me now, msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. good morning. what can you tell us about these charges and how likely is it that if convicted those involved could face jailtime? >> anytime you are charged in federal court, there is a decent chance you're looking at

jailtime. most of the sentencing guidelines call for at least some degree or range of jailtime. you would always prefer it to be in state criminal court over federal criminal court, but broadly speaking, there are a number of different charges for a number of different schemes, and everyone has varying degrees of culpability. the ring leaders charged with a bunch of different crimes more appropriate for people who organize this criminal active. then you have the parents who could be viewed as really just consumers of an illegal product, but because they, they're taped, they're on title 3 wiretaps with these folks they are alleged to have been allegedly co-conspirators, people involved in the crime, knew of its criminal intent and participated by giving money and promoting this criminal activity. very serious kacharges even for the parents mostly charged with

mail fraud. any of these charges have a potential jail sentence involved. >> talked about varying degrees. talk about the varying degrees of bail. the two actresses most high-profile in the case. loughlin and her husband's bail set at $1 million. is that high for this type of white collar crime? huffman's was set at $250,000.d? >> the only thing became is supposed to do is ensure the defendant's presence at trial, and the standard is, is the defendant a risk of flight or does the defendant pose a threat to society at large? those are the only real two governing standards. there's another rule that's called a presumption. these are not presumption cases. there are certainly cases, like those involving guns or drugs or something similar where the statute requires, or creates a presumption, that this person shouldn't get bail. otherwise, everybody theoretically is entitled to

bail. the dollar amount is a more thorny issue, and sometimes criminal defense attorneys like me complain that when you have a defendant of means, a judge might up the bail just because they're someone who may be able to pay it, but judges have a lot of discretion in setting bail and it representing that individual judge's perception of the case, the threat of defendant poses to the community at large which may not be the case here, but more appropriately and possibly maybe a risk of flight. again, that's probably not an issue with these defendants either. at least the celebrity parents. so some could argue that it may just be a penalty for having a lot of money to pay bail. >> did $1 million strike you as a bit much? >> you're going to pin me to it, phil. yeah, as a criminal defense attorney, yes. these parents are not a risk of flight but if they can pay it, bond out, they're okay. >> ask you also about the

numerous lawsuits already filed. two students at stanford filed lawsuits against yale and usc after not getting accepted there and that parent asking for $500 billion. are these cases going to materialize? how hard is it going to be for them to prove damages from not getting into those schools? >> going to be difficult to prove damages, because in the case of students who are at other high quality schools, how do you prove the causation? how do you prove the damages that they suffered? well, the answer is, there is one very provable, very tangible damage that they allegedly suffered, and that's the application fee. they're alleging when they pay that application fee, they're asking for a ticket to participate, to compete with other students, and that's not what they were sold. instead, the entire process they allege was rigged, and essentially they were just handing over free money to the university for a process that never gave them a chance. that becomes a much more

tangible damage to allege. the challenge is going to be whether or not they can prove that the university's entire process was so corrupted that paying the application fee never meant that they had any chance of getting in. of course, the colleges will argue, well, if you were on the cusp, a close call, there may have been other factors that led to you not getting in, and a differently situated candidate obviously got in. not the ones who cheated but the ones who got in under their own merit. so a very difficult case to make out. >> quite the fallout from this whole situation. danny cevallos, as always, thank you, sir. and it might be just a wee bit premature, but beto o'rourke asked a question about a possible running mate. how he answered it is making news this morning. his morning.

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three-day swing across iowa en route to wisconsin holding events in madison then in milwaukee before making his way monday to michigan. over the course of these three days he made stops across the eastern parts of the state finished in dubuque, iowa, at a house party. to be prank, house parties get a little cramped when beto o'rourke is the candidate appearing. one question posed to him by an individual as he walked out was whether he would choose a woman as a vice presidential candidate, and he said that he had had the intention's doing so. talked to him more about that afterwards. he said if he were the nominee based off the women that are purely running for presidency themselves for the presidency side, hard to imagine not picking a woman in this case. beto o'rourke, again, will continue on. he doesn't have a day job and has time over the next 10 1/2 moffs to make his way around the country essentially going every

day on the campaign trail. the question is, how many places can he hold retail spots like this, like house parties, just one year out from the iowa caucus. >> thank you, on the campaign trail. a new poll finds a slim majority of florida voters say they would definitely not vote for president trump if he's the republican candidate in 2020. democratic voters don't have as clear a path ahead as more candidates jump into the race. here's sound check 2020 snapshots from the campaign trail this week. >> so do you believe that google, amazon and facebook all of monopolies by your definition? >> oh, let's put it this way. they are huge. they have market dominance and they behave like monopolyists and that's a big part of the reason they need to be broken apart. >> there's no privacy legislation in place and now we're having hearings where the tech companies are saying, oh, this isn't fair.

states are doing their own bills. the only reason states are doing their own bills is because nothing happened in washington. so this is the time to act and pass things. >> as a nation of immigrants we should remind ourselves that our success, our strength and, yes, our safety and security depend on the fact that we are a city of immigrants in el paso, a nation of immigrants across this country and there's a way to work on a bipartisan basis on border security to make our communities safer while we still meet our moral, legal, our international obligations. >> i am in my entire life, have been opposed personally opposed to the death penalty. it's a very flawed system. those sentenced to the death penalty too huturned out to be innocent. improportionately applied to people of black and brown and of clerp in this country and not a deterrent to the extent that

people would argue. >> we need to make sure as a country that we are standing with our allies, because this world is becoming a more dangerous place. if i am president of the united states i'm going it reach out to our allies to make sure we are strong and united for justice, whether it's responding to human rights violations, responding to russian aggression, responding to climate change. >> we have to have a government that will protect our safety of nuclear pow perp i can tell you, we do not have that right now. we have a government that hasn't drained the swamp, filled it up with alligator. i do believe we should not shut the door to continued research into any technology low and zero carboning and that includes the nuclear industry. >> so some will criticize the green new deal for being too bold or unmanageable. tell you what. i haven't seen anything belter

that addresses this singular crisis that could lead to ex-tikz. >> if you're willing to do two years service you can get your degree paid for. it you're willing to do a year, only a year, you can get two years paid for. two years? get four years paid for. i like it it's not ask what america can do for you, ask what you can do for america. >> on the road today, beto o'rourke is in wisconsin. cory booker in iowa and elizabeth warren in tennessee. how a simple flip of a switch might have possibly saved the lives of all 157 people aboard that ethiopian airlines jet. that's next. and a programming note. msnbc is now live every saturday and sunday at 6:00 eastern. we're back in a moment. ntdiff ntdiff because of my service in the military,

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new dames could explain what went wrong in the air one week ago today when an ethiopian airlines flight crashed killing all 157 people aboard. the issue with the boeing 737 plane now grounded worldwide may have been a single switch. the crew struggled to control the plane as it stabilizers were tilted upward pushing the aircraft downward the same problem that caused indonesian lion aircraft last fall. pilots say boeing never told them about an anti-stall system that could have kept the plane

in the air. >> this is a training issue, because you should know how to deactivate that system, but if you're not even aware the system exists, you wouldn't even think of it. >> joining me now, julian bray and aviation expert who specializes in security operations. how could that single switch, anti-stall system, have saved the ethiopian airlines flight? >> good morning. the whole point is they didn't know about it. the whole -- this special gizmo was designed to float in the backgrounds, underneath whatever the pilot was doing. so the pilot could be, also on autopilot could fly the plane manually but all this time this computer program was crimming the aircraft, making sure it's on the horizontal. the point, didn't tell them so they really couldn't do anything about it. >> was this a training problem? no training flight simulators were ready before the boeing 737

max went into commercial use. should that have been standard procedure? >> not the point they weren't ready. it wasn't actually included in the rollout of the training literature. the idea being that the marketing side of things thought we don't want to load the pilots up with too much stuff. they need to be able to fly the aircraft and this basically will never go wrong. they'll never need it. silently there in the background. >> why put something there and not tell them how to use it? >> well, basically that the plane is all wrong in weight terms and it needs this little gizmo that is called an mcas to keep the plane level because the front part is too heavy, two vast engines set well forward of the wing. all the time testing air flow around the plane and making tweaks to the tail and wings to make sure it's level. this is independent of whatever

the pilot is doing to physically fly the plane. so if the pilot is manually flying the plane, this little gizmo is still going. so they thought, well, it doesn't really matter, because they know how to fly the plane. this isn't going to go wrong. and so we carry on. the problem was as the, as the computer system detected something was going wrong, it then decided oh, that sarong command. so it countermanned that command. what seemed to have happened on the initial incident was that the nose kept going down by five degrees until finally the plane was vertical and heading for the ground under power. >> investigators in paris are looking at the black box data from that ethiopian airlines crash. what can the black box tell us about destress signs before the plane went down? >> two black boxes. one okay and slightly worried about the second, possibly

damaged. we'll find out. what is known as the bea in paris and what they're going to do, actually physically take it apart, get all the data out so every movement and relay gone off in that plane will be on the tape, and all the voice commands, all the conversations on the flight deck will be on their, too. the? ed is they marry the two up on a timeline and they have a complete picture of whatever was happening on that flight right up to the point of impact. >> okay. julian, the faa is expecting a software update by next month that could fix this problem. how is that going to work? >> well, they've got to work a lot harder than that. i think the engineers have to take over control of boeing rather than the marketers running the company, as they are doing at the moment. so, really, the engineers got to get back in there and say, look, we have a brilliant product we want you to use it and fly it but this is what you need to know in order to fly it properly. we can't blame the pilots.

because if you don't know about the gizmo, and they don't tell you, you cannot possibly put it right. >> makes sense. do you think this new software will ever be able to restore passengers' confidence in this particular boeing model? >> well, let's put it like this. i have a windows 10 computer and i keep getting software upgrades and patches and half the programs on it i don't know what they do anyway, but along comes saying this will fix x, y and z and i trust people and put the patch on's we don't know. it might fix it for some and might not for others. what we need is a positive effort from boeing and frankly i don't think they're trying hard enough at the moment. >> how many attempts to you think it will take before they decide, okay. it's fixed. now it will work for certain this is not going to happen again. how many run doing they have to go through before they can give it the okay? >> got to be continued. can't just say, right, it's fixed and we're carry on with

it. they've got to continually monitor it and monitor the performance of every one of those planes and they can do it because they have remote diagnostics on every plane, were tut does mean they have to keep an eye on the planes as well as the engineering base belonging to the individual airlines. it's a fabulous plane. we just want it to work. we want everybody to be safe. >> and we want to know exactly what is in it and how it works. thank you so much for your expertise this morning. >> thank you. civil war in the democratic party? really? potential warning signs and the consequences. ♪ with venus, you're in charge of your skin. so, write your own rules. because no one gets an opinion on why you shave - or how you show your skin. ♪ openturning 50 opens theuard. door to a lot of new things... like now your doctor may be talking to you about screening for colon cancer.

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and kill them right down to the root. roundup brand. trusted for over 40 years. now to explosive tweets exchanged between president trump and the late senator john mccain's daughter meghan. trump blasted john mccain in a tweet about the christopher steele dossier claiming he had far worse stains than this including rejecting the obamacare bill included a replacement, that was false. meghan shot back. no one will ever love you the way they love my father. quote/unquote and then took a swipe at his twitter

habit. president trump still attacking john mccain seven months after he passed away. why is he doing this? what doesn't he get about why this is wrong? doesn't he get a this is wrong? >> well, john mccain's an american hero, but there's been no love lost between mccain and trump. he famously talked about john mccain's service. a lot of people were aghast at that, but what provoked him this time was this report that john mccain had passed along the dossier, this unsubstantiated dossier funded by the hillary clinton campaign to the fbi. and for president trump, that's the unforgivable sin. and that's why he continues to do this and tweet about this even months after the president -- excuse me, after senator mccain has passed. >> but that's something that the president already knew, right? what sparked that to happen this weekend? >> i think it was this statement

by kenneth starr, apparently had made this statement about it. and i think it's -- i'm just guessing here. it seems that the president saw that statement by kenneth starr and that provoked him and triggered him again to make this statement. as a republican, i find it unfortunate. but you know, donald trump is not a polite society fighter. he's a street fighter and he still holds a grudge against senator mccain, and this is the way he fights. >> your reaction when you saw this? >> the most surprising thing i've seen in politics. here's the truth sh the president of the united states is a 72-year-old insensitive, cantankerous individual, and him going after john mccain in death for some seems cringe-worthy, but for me, it actually par of the course for how this president has responded. but i will say this, big ups to meghan mccain for going out and

defending her father, but i want to say, where are the gop senators who served with senator mccain all of those years? they should grow a backbone, stand up for their friend and tell the president of the united states this is completely unacceptable. >> justin, where are those republicans? >> well, i think that those republicans are, they're not going to do that because president trump is so immensely popular amongst republican primary voters that any republican senator that would criticize president trump for doing that, they'll be on the receiving end of a tweet from president trump, and that can be deadly in a republican primary. so, i think what's happening here is just pure politics, which is, because president trump has so much support amongst republicans, you're not going to see any republican senators taking him on. >> wow. nothing to say to that. meanwhile, the democratic party is facing its own internal

battles. this past week, impeachment was one of the issues highlighting the divisions. house speaker nancy pelosi saying she'd want ironclad evidence and bipartisan backing before going down that path. some democrats agree, while others, they reacted like this. take a listen. >> i think there's plenty of information already, but some don't, and we still would want to have a process where even if we can't convict the president on impeachment, we at least are able to get the resolution passed in the house. >> we are there for a reason, and there will be another vote on impeachment. now, there's a way to stop me. if you desire to stop me, you but only have to change the rules so that i can't bring a vote on impeachment. otherwise, i will. >> we're changing public opinion, and when public opinion is in support of removal, i'm confident that the impeachment will go forward. >> do you think it is only a matter of time before democrats start an impeachment effort and

pelosi just wants more time to investigate before going there? >> i don't think some democrats have the stomach for an impeachment process and some do. here's the truth, phil. many individuals in congress remember how unpopular it was to impeach president clinton. and let's be very clear about impeachment. impeachment does not mean removal. it is simply a political process. in order to undergo that political process, you must have political sentiment. they do not have it. right now, the majority of democrats are not there, the majority of the american voters are not there and they do not have an impeachment. impeachment is a prerequisite for removal, but we have not removed u.s. presidents. so when speaker pelosi says let's basically table that and look at 2020, that is probably the pragmatic answer to the political resolution, which is try to get rid of president trump. >> justin, what are the chances an impeachment effort would backfire on the democrats and

somehow bolster trump's support among republicans, get that final 10% that he's still seeking? >> that's exactly the reason why speaker nancy pelosi doesn't want impeachment, and it's similar to why republican senators won't speak out against president trump against john mccain. nancy pelosi doesn't want impeachment for the same reason. president trump has enough support that she knows that if she goes for impeachment now, as a majority of democratic voters want, according to a recent poll, she will not be speaker in two years because there are a lot of members who won in 2018 that flipped the house that enabled her to be speaker. they will likely lose their re-election races and she will not be speaker if she pushes for impeachment. so it's a very pragmatic position for her to take to not support impeachment because it's a recognition of president trump's political base. >> an article in politico points out the risks of a "democratic

civil war," says the party needs to iron out its differences or hand 2020 to republicans. how seriously should democrats take that concern? >> i completely disagree with that article. here's why. when we talk about political primaries, it should be robust, vigorous and rigorous, similar to what happened during the republican primary of trump, then candidate trump. it was a robust primary. a lot of things happened in that primary. here's the positive to a very, very aggressive democratic primary. number one, you get to vet all of the candidates. number two, you create a tremendous amount of earned media. everybody's talking about this campaign. and at the end of it, whoever emerges as the nominee for that particular party will have been vetted throughout this country. so, i think it's actually a positive to have this level of diversity in the democratic primary. >> all right, rashad richey and justin saifi, thank you very much for joining us this

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good morning from msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is 7:00 in the east, 4:00 out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." alex is off today. i'm phillip mena. new this hour, the democratic field just got more