we will officially usher in the dangerous chapter of donald trump's pregnancy that can be spoiled by mueller's report to be handed over any day now. will that be the beginning of the existential peril for president trump, which could come with more indictments criminal referrals and intensifying investigations on capitol hill, and if any of the findings of any those inquiries are damning enough, impeachment. so it's against that grim background that president trump seems to be having long public meltdown on twitter. its so long it's raising questions about his competence and fitness for office -- not the first time -- as well as speculation trump is suffering a panic attack related to the mueller report we were talking about. regardless of whether trump is freaking out for good reason or simply losing it or both is that his nearly 72-hour long airing of grievances seemed designed to stoke outrage over the most

demi demissive themes of his presidency. he also atamtacked john mccain. called for a probe of "saturday night live," which was in reruns this weekend. he tweeted in support of two fox news anchor who are under fire for a wide array of egregiously contaminated comments. the president also retweeted a host of right supporters including wild eye conspiracy theorists. and among those george conway, noted conservative voice and husband of kellyanne conway. conway tweeted, quote, all americans should be thinking seriously now about trump's mental condition and psychological state, including especially the media, congress and the vice president and the cabinet.

pr that pretty picture is where we start today. attorney general mike vance and former campaign adviser to bushes, mccains, all kinds of people. and professor opinion proer of the glaud squad and jonathan lemire, all msnbc contributors. ladies and gentlemen, this was an skoesextraordinary thing we witnessed over the weekend. instead of taking them apart by one by, let's talk about first the totality of it and nobody understands the process of mental breakdown other than mike murphy. mike, when you're looking at what the president saw coming out of his fingertips over the weekend, what did you think? >> i thought oh, here we are crazy times demand a crazy president. if this isn't nuts, i'm not a clinical expert, but if you were to go back in time and one day switch with this kind of presidential behavior in normal history, people would instantly

thing he lost his grip. there are these spasms he has where he starts tweeting this crazy stuff. i'm not sure what the cause is but we have become so dulled to trump's madness, i don't know what it will take. do we have to run around for the aluminum foil hat? he's clearly under psychological duress. >> psychological dur ress, jonathan lemire. you cover the president on a regular basis. this is not the first time the president has gone on a crazy twitter tweet storm. we see these things as mike said regularly, number one. number two, it's not the first time people questioned his cognitive state and mental fitness. talk about what it is normally and do pattern recognition here, what normally brings about these kind of outbursts? >> in the past it seems these are triggered by impending bad news, pressure being applied. in the sense the last day or so around the president is a few things at once. he is, like we all are, waiting for the mueller report. we don't know when it's coming. i spoke to rudy giuliani late last night who said their guess is as good as ours. they think soon.

they have not been given's heads-up when it could be. you have the ongoing pressure applied to house democrats investigation after investigation after investigation. third, the president is complaining around him, and we saw this a little on twitter too, he's being in his estimation unfairly blamed for what happened in new zealand. the shooter in his manifesto did have a single mention of the president, suggested he was key to white identity, i'm paraphrasing, and the president feels that he's being sort of put up as someone who's responsible for this violence. no one, of course, is saying that directly but the president has had time and time again to condemn white nationalism and white supremacy. he's not done that. the last one, sort of amusing aside but i talked to somebody who said it was real, fox news tweets where he in the past felt like he was under siege, fox news provided a safe harbor and he felt like this weekend that was not the case. judge jeanine pirro, his most loyal backer, was suddenly taken off the air and to have weekend anchors deliver criticisms of him, he lashed out at that too.

>> let's go to one particular tweet that speaks to that very question. one of the tweets trump sent out related to judge pirro having been suspended, the tweet said this, it's directed at fox news -- stop working so hard on being politically correct, which will only bring you down. the losers all want what have. don't give it to them, be strong and prosper. be weak and then die. you're a professor of religion but would i like you to do literary criticism here. when you look at that tweet, what do you see that tweet specifically and then the broader pattern of the course of the weekend? >> i see a bungled reference to "star trek" and spock, instead of live long and prosper, be long and prosper. tern terrible. what's clear here is donald trump is trying to draw the circle around him to close -- for the wagons to circle. continue has something to do with this sense that a

particular understanding of the country that is represented in him is being attacked. and fox news needs to get in line. and so part of what new zealand represented and represents, right, is in some interesting sort of way in my view, a wholesale attack on what donald trump has enabled and his legions have enabled. i'm not trying to blame what happened in new zealand on president trump but he's helped create an environment for this sort of carnage to happen. so to hear fox news back up a little bit in its perceived punishment of judge janeane is in some ways throwing him into the fire as it were. >> i want to come back and talk more in depth in the next block about white supremacy, the new zealand story, the white supremacy questions that have been raised over the last few days. but i want to ask joyce vance right now, i kind of raised the notion in the intro to the

segment you were kind of choosing between the question of is trump kind of losing his mind or just in the state of panic if you go by past precedent as jonathan lemire suggests, he sort of knows or suspects something bad is coming down the path from robert mueller? that could be false, he could be both losing his mind and panicked for good reason. what do you make of it? and talk about what kind of damage this kind of behavior does to kind of the social and democratic norms we're supposed to live under. >> so the president had a bad week. this is the first time that he's really faced significant pushback. it was the first time he's had the veto of a bill after the senate voted against his national emergency. then he faced these additional problems where, as you put it, his harbor fox news wasn't quite as safe this weekend. and then he had to deal with allegations that he was at least in part responsible for the terror attack in new zealand. you know t. would have been easy for trump to stand up and say, i

completely disallow terror, and if my words have been misconstrued, let me be clear, i don't support it. but he didn't do that either. he spent the whole weekend in siege mode. it's hard to know is this just his reaction to a very bad week where for the first time in his presidency he's under attack from a number of different positions or does he really expect to see a shoe drop in this upcoming week, whether it's the mueller report, news reports that his buddy elliott brody was also the subject of a search warrant last summer and the fact that the michael cohen search warrant materials are going to be released tomorrow? take your pick, but it's a bad week for the president. >> i want to stay with you, joyce, because you tweeted earlier about the ways in which you thought specifically on the question of the tweet that trump said related to news coverage and the way in which he was going after some fox news hosts and supporting others, that there was a kind of certain special kind of violation involved in that kind of

behavior on the part of a president. i would like you to talk about that so i can then take that conversation and come back to one of the reporters in the room, jonathan lemire. >> so it's so clear if you're a student of history if you go back and look at anything about the constitution, the founding fathers believed that having a free press and first amendment was in many ways more important than anything else that they would establish. and here we have the president, who launches his attacks at that core of democracy and, you know, something that we know in this country is the press is strong, the press is invepntive, the moe they come under attack, the more they will find ways to get the truth to the american people. but this president's approach has been so sustained and so malignant that i think we're at a point in time where we do need to be aware of this and come together to protect the institution. >> jonathan, you made the point earlier that often when trump has a freak-out on twitter that it's prestage smz bad news that

comes his way. maybe he has an inkling it's coming. we often speculate and report on the question of what kind of back channels does he have? where is he getting information? obviously we all think the mueller report will be filed relatively soon. we may be wrong but that's the current state of play. do you think there's some sense that he knows at this point, the president knows broadly what's in it or is it just a question of he knows what he's done, and because he knows what he's done and he thinks mueller is bog go to get to the bottom of what he's done, that's enough knowledge for him to come undone? >> there could be times matt whitaker acted as a conduit. they don't know if he knows what's coming but people around him suggest they don't know what's in there. there are some feelings on the right that there isn't going to be this smoking gun mueller hasn't revealed yet t will just be a recap of what's been out

there so far, which in some ways is damning enough, but there isn't going to be another shoe necessarily to drop. but it will still be an ex-system moment f existential moment when it comes out, even if it wasn't 100 pages of the ken starr report, it will be a moment that bifurcates this president before and after the mueller report. there, of course, is anxiety there. this is also the first time, the last handful of days and last week or so, where the president is not necessarily the top news story all the time. he's suddenly competing for attention with 2020 candidates, beto o'rouke particularly the last few days, and that's feeding anxiety as well. >> you're twitching. >> i was thinking about southern districts of new york and i'm thinking this too, and i respect mike murphy a lot, but it's easy for us to think there's a mental health issue here. it seems to me to think of

donald trump as a neuro with his fiddle is an easy way to account for this. but his strategy, what he's been doing since day one, is dropping smoke bomb after smoke bomb after smoke bomb aimed at distracting us, aimed at some ways delegitimizing what's coming down the pike. all of the things you listed plus what's going on in the southern district i think is on his mind and he's in a full-blown panic. >> mike murphy, i want to talk about some very specific elements of the tweeter storm -- the tweeter storm, twitter outburst of trump, i i want wan about the mccain stuff. you worked for john mccain in the 2000 campaign. you knew him well. i want to read one of the tweets, lowest of the low here, where trump said it was indeed just proven in court papers that, quote, last in his class annapolis john mccain sent a big dossier to the fbi and media hoping to have it printed before the election.

he and the democrats working to the failed as usual. even the fake news refused this garbage. we know donald trump does not like john mccain but apparently the notion one does not speak ill of the dead does not apply to this president of the united states. i think everyone is kind of appalled by it but i'm more appalled in some ways the people like lindsey graham ostensibly close to john mccain, had been close for years, none of them are willing to stand up to donald trump when he desecrates the memory african-american hero. memory of hero. >> he has shown there's no limit to what he will say. he's such a narcissist he doesn't understand anything about anybody but himself. he has this reflexive need, he's so insecure, to go scream and howl on twitter whenever he -- whatever the word is, whatever we word we use for these twitter outbursts. but, yes, i think there are people and there are

overwhelming majority of the people in the senate and in the republican leadership class across the country who know exactly who donald trump is and know exactly what john mccain was. and they know there is an enormous difference between somebody who put the country first, was a patriot, hero and man and somebody who acts like a cowardly boy. i don't care if it was during the vietnam era or if it is facing these legal problems. i just want to say at one point about the discussion, we don't quite know the cause. it's fun to discuss. there's no doubt the president has problems that get him agitated. but the bigger thing here is i think we now know for a fact the president does not handle stress and pressure well. i'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. i can't diagnose him, but i know how the system of government works. when the commander and chief can't take pressure because that's part of the job and responds to pressure erratically, that is not a small thing. that is a kink in the system that is very dangerous. >> right. and of course it is the case we often note in these moments that

one of the things that has not happened is see donald trump tested by a realtime national crisis or something else where his temper and mental facility would be crucial to handling it well. i want to pick up, michael, on the point you were making about republicans. there's bis crystal's tweet that got a lot of attention this weekend. to republicans who have been inclined to acquiesce to the trump renomination in 2020. read his tweets this morning. do you seriously doubt his mental condition and psychological state, and tell me you're fine with him as president of the united states for an additional four years. mike, i have to stick with you because you're the one card-carrying republican in this group that i still know, is anybody listening to bill

kristol? >> there are a small band of us, we have been howling but i call d.c. now dic hixt france. i have a fair amount of friends i worked with in the republican apparatus at the highest level and what they all say is you're right. i can't do it publicly because i give mike murphy or bill kristol an attack on trump, an hour later trump doesn't change and my political primaries explode. the perverse thing about all of this is after we lost the midterms privately in the republican hire levels, there was great concern, a lot of talk what to do about trump. he would be death in 2020. then the early noise of the democratic prospect started and i don't believe this theory but all of a sudden this bubble thing started, you know what, these crazy democrats are going to nominate somebody so far out there that even god forbid trump could beat him. the prab matgmatic worry abated

to the wiz doom of pronounced democrats. that will probably turn but that has bought trump air in the democratic party. morally i think it's shameful. we have an unsecure president and we need to do something about it. but the political fear about trump has actually gone down. >> jonathan quickly, last week we saw a bunch of republicans vote against the president on the question of the border emergency. does anybody in the white house right now think that's a sign that the rock-solid support he's had among republicans is cracking in some kind of fundamental way, or do they look at that as an outlier he will say it passed? >> more of the latter. it's problematic that some republicans in the senate had constitutional concerns or afraid they were setting a precedent for a democratic president down the road. the president and people around him still point to his skieg-high approval ratings within the republican party and rank and file. they knew there would not be enough defections here the veto could be overturned so therefore

the emergency declaration would get through anyway. moreover to point out, there's not republicans fleeing this president. in fact unlike last time where he had a very bare bones campaign, he's already putting together a pretty significant infrastructure already with a lot of republicans signing on board to work for him and no problems raising money. >> joyce, i want to close out with you and bring us back to the cause of truth here. when trump tweet storms this unhinged, we focus rightly on the unhingeness of it but it contained as all trump tweets do a vast number of lies and inaccuracies. i want to talk about the one directed to john mccain, in addition to desecrating john mccain's legacy and speaking very ill of the dead, he basically put forward a false version of history with respect to the role mccain had with the dossier. talk a little about that and set the record straight for the sake of history. >> so this is the phenomenon of trump. he can say things that are

demonstrably untrue and get away with it. no one calls him on it. and he starts with john mccain saying he's at the bottom of his class, r rock bottom, not true. i think he graduated a little above the bottom. but this is the president's need to hammer everything home at the expense of truth. so no surprise when it came to the dossier he wanted to make john mccain an implicit player, talked about the role mccain played to turn the dossier over to begin a witch-hunt on trump before the election was over. and that's basically not true. we know has not how it happened. we know mccain didn't have access to the dossier until he passed on afterwards and trump has again taken to his bully pulpit on twit tore make untrue claims in an effort, i suppose, to rally his base. the reality is until people in his own party stand up and call out the lies, he's going to continue to get away with it. >> and, of course, lying in this

way, in a self-serving way, lying about someone who cannot answer back, which is just about the most despicable thing you can do. joyce, thank you for spending this time with us. after the break, donald trump's staff cannot believe reporters are still asking about trump and white supremacy. reporters can't believe trump is still about as close to sigh left on the topic as the president can get. the $6.1 million man. beto o'rouke outraising every other presidential candidate in the field. is this news as good for beto as it sounds? and the case against michael cohen. it's about to get a whole lot more revealing. what we can learn about trump when new evidence is unveiled. all of that is next. there's a jet! oh...i needed this. no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on our car insurance with geico. we could have been doing this a long time ago. so, you guys staying at the hotel? yeah, we just got married. oh ho-ho! congratulations!

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stand up for individual religious liberties. the president is not a white supremacist. i'm not sure how many times we have to say that. >> right. how about this, mr. acting chief of staff, you wouldn't have to say it so often if your boss' words and actions didn't repeatedly ask the question. on friday trump tried to insist white supremacy was not on the rise, arguing against all available evidence that it doesn't represent a growing threat. and then this morning a tried and true trump tactic in action, turning the tables. quote, the fake news media is working overtime to blame me for the horrible attack in new zealand. they will have to work very hard to prove that one. so ridiculous. putting the strawman nature of that argument aside, it seems that the president is missing the point. david lee heart put it best in "the new york times" -- trump

doesn't deserved to be blamed for any specific crime but he does deserve blamed for the trends. it isn't very complicated. the mand with the largest bully pulpit keeps encouraging white nationalism. lo and behold, white nationalism is on the rise. you have to work hard to persuade yourself that's just coincidence. joining us now, mr. lemire, mr. glaud, mr. murphy, remote fash away i believe in los angeles still with us. guys, start, please. you have so many thoughts on this matter but i want to start with this. again, we ended the last segment as we can end almost every segment of the trump presidency talking about what a big, fat liar the president is. on this issue again, a big, fat liar because we have statistics to show what's going on with white nationalist and other hate crime and hate speech and so on. underneath all of this, john, is this desire to disconnect the

violence of white supremacists and the alt right with some of the basic positions of the republican party. not understand that the soil that enables these folk to thrive, to grow, bears a family resemblance, that there's a position. so when donald trump describes mexicans as invaders. when he thinks about immigration as a kind of infestation, when he goes to europe and he says they're trying to change the culture of the place, right, all of this seems like it's respectable but underneath it, right, is this nastiness that gives fuel to these people. i have been on the bad e7d of the bright bar -- i said to the muslim children who are very fearful who are going into mosques and worried they're going to be shot down by

animals, that their parents have to do something to keep that fear from taking root in their spirits. and what they have to do is tell them the problem isn't us, the problem isn't with immigrants, the problem isn't with people of color or black folk, the problem is with this idea of whiteness, that somehow it should accrue special benefit to folk and trump lives in that space day in and day out. when we talk about him playing to his base, we know exactly what we're saying. he's playing to their fears and to their hatreds. there's a direct lincoln they want to break and nick mulvey thinks he can just say it and we know he lies through the side of his neck all the time too. >> side of his neck, awesome. let's just pull the data up here for the latest available white nationalism data just in the last year. supremacist propaganda up 182%, racist rallies and demonstrations up 20%, hate groups up 7%. that's all united states data. doesn't deal with international stuff. mike murphy, i ask you as

someone who's worked for people who have gone on to become president of the united states, the president does two things simultaneously in the face of what happened in new zealand, one, he does not condemn it for what it is. and, two, he denies that what it is is a real problem. how could you possibly imagine if you were mick mulvaney or anyone who worked for donald trump, even if this were just an isolated incident, even if there wasn't charlottesville and the rest of the evidence, just on the basis of his behavior in this time frame, how can you possibly going on television with the straight face and try to claim that it's ridiculous someone thinks the president might be aligned with white nationalism. >> look, when you go to work for donald trump, particularly on the domestic policy side, you check a lot of things at the door. it's like requirement job one and that's part of it now, look, i don't think the problem is the president is an arsonist but i think he's magnificently

careless with matches. he doesn't seem to understand part of his job is not just to be the head of the government and demand things and vilify opponents and do all of the political rough and tumble at a massively coarse level, i might add, he's supposed to speak for the country and be defender of institutions. one of the main jobs of a president is preempt things like this and when they happen, address it in a way that takes the energy away from it, causal energy away by reminding people of the values that bind us together by the country. he does none of that by choice. still he pivots to somehow he's the victim. it's horrible and we really never had a president cross this line of forgetting what the real job is. and it's hard to fix other than to condemn him, which we all do. so other than that, i don't really have an answer. i wish the party would condemn him more. i think eventually the reporters would take revenge but until

then you have to suffer through this and wonder about the damage it does. >> laura, i'm not a big fan of what about this and you can go all day how he was treated in the trump era and obama era but i think it's worth pointing out this tweet from amy walter from cook political report, she says, watching trump white house people going on tv to scold the media for blaming trump for the new zealand massacre, you would have thought none of them were involved in calling obama weak on terrorism because he wouldn't say radical islamic terrorism. you know, these people have been -- if you want to talk about the application of double standards, these people are practicing it at a very high level of art form. >> right, of course. i think we don't have to work very hard to blame, it's not the media who's blaming trump for these massacres. the shooters themselves, mail bomber, anti-semitic shooter at the synagogue, the muslim

shooter in new zealand have all cited trump themselves and said they were inspired by him. the kkk endorsed him. he called african countries fith whole countries. we don't have to work very hard to draw this line directly from the rise in escalading rates of violence directly to the american president. >> jonathan, the house of representatives is taking action, at least of a kind on the daily beast saying the house judicial committee is planning a hearing on the rise of white nationalism. there are many who think the republicans control of congress is a problem of president trump, this may be another one. is this the kind of thing, there are a lot of places where they can do damage to trump with investigations and subpoenas and so on, but holding hearings on this, does that break through? >> it helps shine the spotlight on this but i don't think it's going to change any minds or illuminate something we all don't know is there already. i think "the times" column you

read from a moment ago is right, the president creates this ecosystem, even if it's not individually responsible. remember his political career was based on the back of birtherism, a racist lie. since then in the early days of the campaign, he was slow to reject the support of david duke. nothing changed since. mind you on friday when he signed this national emergency declaration, he referred to illegal immigrants as invaders, hours after that same manifesto the new zealand shooter, he used that same word invaders to describe immigrants. this is something that is part and parcel with this president, even looking beyond high-profile moments like charlottesville, this is part of the space he created >> it is the case not only this climate existed before donald trump became a political figure, he piggy backed on it, he exploited it and fed it and now needs it. there's only one world in which donald trump gets elected president and if this environment is in full effect. beto o'rouke, flash in the

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how much as you confront voters out there there's just an exhaustion with the craziness and abnormality of donald trump? >> i don't hear that as much as i hear a desire for us to return to civility and decency. i met a young man and he said i work, i can't even talk politics anymore. we cannot have a civil conversation. something is wrong in this country right now. as president, what would you do to heal this? i said if we wait for somebody to be president to do this, we're too late. the campaign has to be about this. whoever is our next president will have to campaigned in a way to have brought this country together and not on our differences but on our commonality as americans. >> that was beto o'rouke talking with some weird, bald, sun glasswaring freak in iowa this weekend. the episode on "showtime."

we worked up in the first 24 hours of his campaign, congressman o'rourke raised $6.1 million, beating out the other campaigners including bernie sanders, who had $5 million after his first day of campaigning. now we're awaiting on one more big name, former vice president joe biden. this weekend biden gave another little hypothetic little hint he's about to jump in. >> i'm told i get criticized by the new left. i have the most progressive record of anybody running -- anybody who would run. i didn't mean -- >> well, i may be the only one not totally convinced he's going to run but i believe he's going to run. there's a man who's being painted as a moderate by a lot of people, who realizes he's

being painted as such, joe biden is, and he also recognizes the climb in the party is not that hospitable as a moderate. so he's claiming -- if he runs, he will be the most progressive person in the field. what do you think of that? >> it's a lie. it's not true period. i mean, think, this is part of the point, he's going to run on the obama agenda. part of the running on obama agenda or the obama presidency is in some ways to stand in the representation that obama's presidency was somehow progressive. and that is just simply an indication of how slippery a signifier progressive actually is in terms of its meaning. when we look at joe biden and his positions with regard to criminal justice, when we think about his positions with regard to wall street and we think about his position vis-a-vis health care, right, where was he in the debate with regards to single payer medicare for all and what mccain and oba-- becamf

obamacare. but he's certainly not to the left of kamala harris. cory booker, maybe. but part of what i'm thinking here -- let me put it quickly, it is clear people change their minds. and we don't want to be the kind of people to keep folks stuck. biden has to give an honest account of how he moved from here to there. if people are convinced, they will be convinced. you just can't lie. >> the same questions will be asked of beto o'rouke. for a lot of people that were doubting this weekend after beto hit the campaign trail and didn't release his 24 hours of fund-raising numbers, people were all over twitter, especially bernie fans saying he's a failure. he didn't raise anything. he's keeping it secret because i've got a source in texas who said he only raised $500,000. then he comes out with $6.1 million. whatever you say about beto o'rouke, turns out he can raise money, even if he's not running

against ted cruz. but the questions remain, a lot of progressives look at him and say he's too moderate, he's vaccuous, he's not staked out strong policy positions in line of where the country is now. what say you? >> i think he's been really light on substance. i'm disappointed how much we learned about bett learned about beto o'rouke since he announced his return. there's clearly beto mania going on. he loves to jump on tables in mississippi. people are just throwing cash at him, good for him. but i think the people who are loving beto right now are going on a feeling, are going on sort of his charisma and are not necessarily listening to him on substance. because elizabeth warren, bernie sanders, a couple others, are running very substantive campaigns so far and beto simply is not. >> let me ask you this question, we're going to go to break and come back to this conversation. we just talked about beto and biden, right, maybe both seen by some on the progressive side of

the party is not progressive enough. the white house is more worried about those two more than anybody else. >> they feel the more central lane is perhaps where trump is most vulnerable. they like the idea of the contrast versus the candidates on the farther left of the spectrum, that is why we hear the world socialism a lot. they want to play that game. they feel someone like joe biden, beto opposes issues in the contrast and appearance of the president but biden who we know is already popular in the states in the midwest that delivered the presidency to donald trump in 2016, so there is an element there of concern. i think it is telling though that those are the two people, biden and o'rourke, the president went after on twitter in the last couple of days, which shows his degree of concern. >> you look at the beto o'rouke phenomenon, donald trump is not the most sophisticated political mind in the world but he understands electricity, he understands lightning in a bottle, he understands big crowds. beto went toe to toe with him in el pass kwloe and showed he had all of those things and then you

see him on the biden side, and let me read the tweet from trump, this is how you know he got under trump's skin. joe biden got tongue-tied over the weekend about the very simple line about whether he was going to run for president. get used to it. another very low iq individual. you see a trump like that and isn't it trump is the world's worst poker player saying i'm worried about that guy? >> yes, i think trump is easy to bait. but having been to this movie on the other side a bunch of times, it's a real mistake to obsess on candidates this early. it's better to obsess on voters in the primary who go shopping and have a whole process to find somebody. the big trump that is being missed if you poll the 30 million-plus people who will participate in the democratic primaries this year -- next year, excuse me, they're not all left wing liberals. it's not the party of the progressive brooklyn hipster, despite the expression on twitter. you know, what happens in the

early season before the voters is we set up rules of gravity, crowd size, who's the first one out? who's the most progressive? and then the real gravity hits after labor day. i would be careful, it's too early to know if any of these candidates will be good because they have to go out and run and go through the process, which really detypes them. >> i totally get that point. and it's relevant to the democratic fields and that speaks to one thing we know about the democratic nominating electorate is the importance that women voters are going to have in it. they were the animating force, driving force that got democrats to retake control of the house and drove this huge turnout in the midterm elections of 2018. here are two of the democratic candidates, beto o'rouke and cory booker, both talking about the importance of women in the party. >> no matter what, i'm looking you in the eye and saying this, there will be a woman on the

ticket. i don't know if it's in the vice president's position or president's position, but if i have my way, there will be a woman on the ticket. >> it would be very difficult not to select a woman with so many extraordinary women who are running right now, but first i would have to win. and there's -- this is as open as it has ever been. >> laura, i want to ask you, we have 13 candidates in the race now. five are women. got a lot after tension, elizabeth warren, amy klobuchar, kamala harris all in the race. do you think those guys are speaking something democrats accept, there's no way there's not going to be a woman on this ticket when we get to a decision at the end of the nomination contest? >> this is absolutely not something the democrats have just accepted that a woman is not going to be on the top of the ticket, of course not. but i do think it speaks to the fact look at the fund raising numbers, follow the money p you

look at what bernie has raised and what beto has raised, combined more than all of the women combined have raised so far. so i think that clearly america still has some kind of bias going on. clearly when you feel something in your gut about which candidate you like for some reason everyone gravitates towards a white man. it's been that way for 200 years. and i think the women, you know, obviously have an uphill come here but you should not count them out because they're just as substantive and kwfred as the men this year. >> nobody is counting those women out in the democratic party this year. thank you for that and thank you mike murphy for spending time with us. sorry to take awe wyou away fro lovely california sun. back from the break, the step against donald trump called an early step towards impeachment. ent.

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stand for. >> now trump talks about disgrace. you should listen to him. he knows a lot about that. last year he called the raid on michael cohen's home and offices an, quote, attack on our country. what threatened enough that it cost trump to end any cooperation with robert mueller investigation all together. so there's no doubt trump is keeping a close eye that the documents found during the search warrant will be made available tomorrow. joining us tomorrow the one and only great paul butler. >> great to be here. now i have to live up to that billing. >> that's right. i set the bar high. you were among those people, who are the smart people i have listened to and learned from over the last couple of years, who said southern district, michael cohen is really more of a threat potentially or actually to donald trump's presidency than the mueller investigation. right now it seems that coming

true, and this news of late, pretty fine point on that. >> and partly because the southern district investigation is about the trump organization, about trump's finances, it's about a dude who's been down and dirty in queen real estate the last 30 years. is there years. if prosecutors are looking for those -- the whole list not so much the mueller report. the guidelines require mueller to submit a confidential report to the attorney general. it has to explain why mueller indicted people, but also why he selected not to charge certain people with crimes. under doj regulations that is supposed to remain confidential.

it is called a notification, and that notification doesn't really do a lot of work. it could be just a couple sentences explaining what mueller did with the private stuff not included or it could be a long narrative on everything that mueller found. >> he has so much discretion over the future of what happens with mueller's work going forward. how does it work, when mueller reports, he has to issue his own report, right? it s -- is it bar that goes to him? >> the concern will be what if mueller finds evidence that trump committed a highrime or

a misdemeanor. they release information about what they don't decide to charge. famously the fbi opened a counter nercount counter intelligence investigation against the president. so now it will be up to the fbi, the doj, and mueller to submit evidence to the intelligence committee, the house and senate chief about whether or not someone can be charged with a crime but about whether or not the president of the united states has been compromised by the russians. >> one more question, i have a number of other questions, but here is the thing that i think for many other democrats, they worry about how aggressive he will be and how independent he is. they all say in the ends if

things get hairy and he is not transparent at all, the house will subpoena mueller himself and he will be asked to testify publicly, or partly publicly, is that not the ultimate fail safe here? >> i think mueller would be extremely forth coming with the intelligence committees. they would be private secret stuff in there, national intelligence information, and that national security data on one hand versus the public right to know, on the other hand the stakes are high. this is about why the republican platform turned so russian friendly. why the president always sends out shoutouts to vladimir putin. why the whole administration has been so weird with regard to russia. >> we have to sneak in one quick

break and we will come right back, hold on. break and we will come right back, hold on.

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we don't have a couple time but i have a couple white house questions on the legal stuff. first is the deadline for the house judiciary for the 81 requests. people have to respond by today. generally as all of the investigations ramp up, how aggressive will they be? >> they will be aggressive on fighting back and part of that is dragging their feet. they will contest a lot of it,

de de deadlines will come and go. don't expect complete -- >> among the many expectations i have in the world, that is not one. rest assured. >> i just broke news to you there. >> as far as rudy giuliani, that is not the case. two things at once, he is saying he doesn't want to become an unnecessary distraction. he doesn't want to say something that could be misconstrued. the president was pretty unhappy with some of his final appearances. he didn't want to see more television interviews, he can do more harm than good. >> it is a trump scale lie when he says he would be on television -- he would not have done 97% of the things he has

done when he respected trump. >> the great irony is he does it from telling the truth. so it fears off from the trump tower moscow talks ended earlier. same thing about the payments to stormy daniels. >> on a scale from one to ten, how much do you miss rudy? >> 11. >> how much do you miss him? >> 1. he will be back. >> you guys are all awesome, except lamir, not that good. just kidding, you were great.

you were a little chippy at the start of the show. tonight, senator corey booker on "hardball" and at 8:00 p.m. kirsten gillibrand with chris hays and "mtp daily" starting right now with not katy tur. with, the one, the only, the woman, the myth, the legend katy tur. >> there is so many things that i could comment on for the past minute that you have been on the air, number one no one puts john lamir in a corner, and number two thank god nicolle is coming back tomorrow, so it chuck. >> let's have drinks, no wait, can't, hold on,