deal" co author. and can anything that happens in washington or mueller land tomorrow. don't go anywhere because "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. the ghost in donald trump. lets rrb play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight there's a ghost in the white house and the ghost appears to be winning. the spirit of john mccain is haunting this american president to the point he talks like his own rival is right there with him. he speaks in the present tense about how he's not happy with mccain and late today he complained out loud that he never got a thank you for giving the war hero the funeral he

wanted. it's been another day of trump unleashing his fury against the ghost of senator john mb cane. >> a lot of people are asking because they love me, they ask me about a man named john mccain. i have to be honest. i've never liked him much, hasn't been for me. i've really probably never will. i endorsed some of his requests and i gave him the kind of funeral he wanted, which as president i had to approve. i didn't get thap you. that's okay. but i wasn't a fan of john mb cane. >> how do you explain that grotesquery? and mccain's widow cindy posted a expletive calling him a war monger. and daughter, meghan mccain

defended her father. >> i thin if i had told him seven months after yourb rr dead you're going to be all over the news and all over twitter, he would think it's hilarious that he's dominating in death as well. do not feel bad for me and my family. we are blessed. we are a family of privilege. feel bad for people be bullied who don't have support. >> and joining in call out the president's distasteful atabs. t he told georgia public broadcasting that he found the comments deplorable. >> i want to be crystal clear that we need talk about the politics of the military in any way. it's deplorable what he said and we should never reduce the service people give to this country. >> by contrast mitch mb kaunl

and marta mb sally who holds mccain's old seat defended the late senator without condemning trump. that's careful of them. president trump a claimed national emergency at the border and failing negotiations with north korea, also escalated his feud with the close advisor of kellyanne conway. capped off by this one quote you are nuts. tonight we're joined by omarosa, former senior white house official and associated press white house reporter. but first let's turn to mike murphy a former advisor to john mb cane. what did you make of the comment by cindy, his daughter that he would find this ridiculous and hilarious that this president can't get over him? >> i think it's true. he would be howling with

laughterful that he has this baby tied up in nuts from the grave. it's a tell of how insecure and childish donald trump is. that's kind of the funny side. the sad side of this is we have a president of the united states who's such a narcissist, such self obsessed, prickly and foolish that he's insulting everyone whootz rr worn a uniform. he was respected across the bord, even if you disagreed with him and what donald trump is doing it's so beyond the pale, it's horrifying. >> he suffered five and a half years in the han oi hilton. and here's the guy who got a concierge doctor to get him out of the war. i'd think he would feel some

inferiorty here. he defended his oponent to a republican voter. let's watch. >> i can't trust obama. i have read about him and he's an arab. he is not -- >> no, ma'am. no, ma'am. he's a decent, family man citizen that i just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about. >> mike, that's what i love about politics, right there. and donald trump's never given us a moment like that. >> and i doubt he will because i don't think he understands what a moment like that is, can which is why he's unfit to be president of the united states. >> let's talk about the republican voter out there. i grew up in a republican family. i left them pretty early but i've been surrounded by brothers and people like that, my

parents. they weren't rich but my parents, but they believed in fiscal responsibility, personal reliability, all those good values and respect for other people. they were decent people and this guy, trump, doesn't seem to value anything republican. why do republicans value him? >> i think there are two things going on. the practical pall tugzs are afraid of their own primary voters. so they're cursing him and bribing him. and he wants to be senate caucus, he'd curl up in the ball and shiver. which is a shame because this is a test and they're all going to go down in history. in the republican primary electorate, trump is not as powerful as he looks. yes, he'll get an 85% approval rating. that's like i root for the red sox, i may hate our pitcher.

that doesn't mean i hate the sox. so we'll see. we're going to go into a turbulent time as trump threatens to wipe out the party in 2020 and the party is going toing have to make practical decisions rather than hiding behind a rock. >>s >> south carolina senator lintzy graham called him a train wreck. >> how could anybody wanting to be commander and chief suggest that anybody like john mccain or anybody like him and heetz rar train wreck. and i think he showed yet again he's not going to make it. >> and now that same human being has a more nuance take . >> i think the president's comments about senator mccain hurt him more than the legacy of senator mccain.

my job is to represent the people of south carolina. they want me to work with the president where i can. >> exhibit a. exhibit a. why? >> lindsey's my friend but i wish he'd get shot full of truth serum. he thinks he can have more of a positive influence from inside the circus tent than from outside it but that's a faustian bargain. >> you were on the train -- actually the plane, the bus, whatever with the president, current president when he went crazy over john mccain. this is something about mccain getting in his bone matter. >> he's obsessed with mccain because he'll never be the hero mccain is. we're watching the third season and what happens in the third season is you have a plot twist

and he keeps repeating these themes over and over again. he's not trying to become the best president. he's trying to be the best reality star and that's what we're seeing in this bizarre behavior from donald trump. >> it reminds me of a old fairy tale, mirror, mirror on the wall and every time he hears something about mccain t drives him livid. >> it shows he's not stable and he really should not have access to the nuclear codes if the thought of someone deceased can send him off the rails the way he is. >> you know, jonathan last time i said he was talking to the president, he said i'm not happy with john mccain right now. and then today he complains he didn't get a thank you note. what from john mccain for his funeral . >> typically dead men can't give

thank yous to their funerals. what we've seen is a president who does not let any slights go. yes, the president played a role but it wasn't something he gave to john mccain. congress decides who lies in state. t the national cathedral decides who lies there. is what he did do is provide for a military transport, a band, for horses for the escort. he didn't take care of the whole thing and it's a bizarre claim to suggest that he did. but this is what we see time and time again. yes, mb cane is particularly under his skin. he has that war hero resume the president does not. and kellyanne conway's husband who has been publicly on twitter.

and trump lass out time and time again, including today where he called him, i think the quote was a total hoozer. >> he called george conwau -- as i mensed a moment ago, he escalated his feud with conway. he called his advisor's husband a total wack job. >> i don't know him. he's a wack job. there's no question about it. but i really don't know him. i think he's doing a a tremendous disservice to a wonderful wife. kellyanne is a wonderful woman and i call him mr. kellyanne. the fact is he's doing a tremendous disservice to a wife and family. she's a wonderful woman. >> reminder that's the president of the united states. and he tweeted george conway, often referred to as mr. kellyanne conway is very

jealous of his wife's success and angry that i, with her help, didn't give him the job he so desperately wanted. i barely know him but just take a look. a stone cold loser and husband from hell. can kellyanne finally weighed in. she defended the president, telling "politico." he left it alone for months out of respect for me. the president is obviously defending me. is he trying to drive a wedge in a family here? >> during the campaign, conway was all throughout our campaign offices. he walked around trump tower and sometimes with the children. i think it's again part of this reality thing and he said george conway was a husband of from hell and i think that's ironic with how he's treated melania particularly.

and i think what year seeing is more from kellyanne, a lack of commitment to her marriage. that's where the line should be drawn but it says more about kellyanne staying and working for donald trump who insults her husband and the father of her children. >> i know this calls for psycho information. but why do people muput up with this? we went through access hollywood. that's the end off the line. what's this sticky glue that keeps people so tubbed in bcked with trump? >> some believe they're making a difference to the country. it's approximate mated power and being part of the show, being in the west wing keeps them there.

but you're right very few moments where a staffer has quit out of principal. cohn stuck by him. the president has been particularly distracted and they're worried about that as of late. not just this but the attacks against mccain and george conway. just remember the weekend tweet storm with 70 odd tweets in two and a half days. i think the impending release of the mueller report that could come any day or week is part of it, the fact he's complained to people around him he's being blamed for the shooting in new zealand. he used fox news as a -- it's a safe harbor amid all of the complaints against the media.

and even he was upset about judge pirro. >> i get the sense he looks at the world right now. the blue sky is behind him, dark clouds are coming. >> he knows there's nothing good that's going to come out of the mueller report and all the vezs that will center on him, his children and his family. >> thank you. coming up with the release of the mueller report, president trump is stepping up his attacks on the probe itself while the white house stone walls professional investigators. plus joe biden will be the instant frontrunner, so what's keeping him? and what's wrong with electing presidents by a simple vote? trump used to hate the electoral college but now he loves it.

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welcome back to "hardball." the entire country is on mueller watch anticipating the completion of the special counsel investigation any day. it continues to be a major source of anxiety. trump's now challenging the very premise of mueller's appointment, questioning why he gets the mueller report. >> no collusion. i have no idea when it's going to get release. a man gets appointed by a deputy and writes a report. i just won one of greatest elections in the history of this election and now i have somebody writing a report that never got a vote.

it's called a mueller report. a man out of the blue writes a report. now somebody just writes a report. i think it's ridiculous. but i want to see the report. >> he got 66 million votes mr. president. he will decide which parts of the report are made public. he doesn't mind if it's all released. >> does the public have the right to see the mueller report? >> i told the house if you want, let them see it. >> trump's remarks could have big imp ls down the road as the "washington post" writes, if republicans want to fight it, trump may have just made that more difficult for them. i'm joined by democrat of maryland and political reporter for "the daily beast." this is coming some time soon. >> it's coming at some point.

maybe i'll eat crow but i don't expect it to be in the immediate eminent future. we can say with confidence that attorney general bill barr -- and speaking to people who know him, once he gets it, it's very likely there will be a protracted approval process in parts because the president's lawyers are all but certn to argue that portions of the report would be covered by their broad understanding of executive privilege. >> even though the president said let it out. i just saw them. >> so he agrees with the house of representatives that says threat out. >> this isn't the first time his lawyers said no, we're not going with the president. >> who would get the actual document if william barr put it out? >> it would come to the oversight committee but very quickly it would geevery member of the house and that means the

american people would get it in a matter of minutes. >> you think it's imminent? >> i don't know. the rumors are bouncing off the walls. the president is so stressed out and he's stressing -- >> he acts like a cat on a hot tin roof. and this weekend 50 some tweets. the last couple days going crazy over a man who died seven months ago. i don't know. he's gas letting himself is what it looks like. >> i think it's a serious problem. to me it underscores the importance of having a structure in place to deal with with not necessarily this president but some presidents not being able to discharge the duties of the office. and that's why the first amendment is all about. he and bobby kennedy put it in the wake of the kennedy -- >> will you execute?

>> the cabinet's not going to do it. >> i would make sure there's a structure in place for a real structure. >> all these people who are refugees say people talk about the 25th amendment and go after them and say this is inappropriate to talk about which conflicts completely with the amendment which is we need make sure the president is somebody who's physically and mentally fit to the task. the part that's unremarked is it says the vice president and majority of the cabinet or the vice president and a majority of the body set up by congress can act to transfer power. i think we need have that body for this presidency and every future president. the legislation that i drafted has 17 members on it. half of them will be former presidents, vice presidents, attorneys general. half of them physicians and psychiatrists. a 17th member that's chosen by a

bipartisan body. i know it's the source of a lot of amusement, the mental state. and if it continues to decline, we have a serious problem. >> and while the president is trying to claim that an unelected official be allowed to and he's stone walling -- in a "washington post" op-ed, elijah cummings says the white house has refused to hand over any dau documents or produce any interviews, despite request. so we're getting it two face here. on the utter hand he's denying any documents that will be useful to a report. >> he goes out in front of the cameras and he says i'm on board with whatever you're doing. i have nothing to hide and then

his attorneys zoom in and say no, you don't. we're not doing this. trump said he would be perfectly happy to sit down with an interview with mueller. it's not going to happen. the had been other points in time where he made these ebs pansive promises and his lawyers said yeah, he didn't mean that at all. >> why can't he just demand this stuff? >> right now what the president's doing quite striking because all the former presidents from obama through bush have cooperate would requests for documents from the white house and even we're getting basic cooperation from the resof the administration. it's the white house itself >> you have to go back to 96n to find a fight over executive privilege.

that's quite extraordinary. he's raising the stakes very quickly in terms of house control over the kaurngs tuesdayal oversight process. it's our duty. >> the president is saying it's not about role by law. mueller didn't get any votes. that's how he's talking. he's not allowed to issue a report. any act of a government of law has to be voted on. hillary clinton, who has more votes than him, should investigate him. i have never heard anybody say you can't investigate me because i have more votes than you. >> but second, it also highlights just a very poor understanding of the way law enforcement works. law enforcesmement officials art

supposed to decide who to investigate because they want to win elections and trump 's argument that mueller should have a stump in iowa to get authorization to work to enforce america's laws is just totally an thetical to how law enforcement is supposed to work. >> a new asociated press poll finds the majority of american cans, 62% are confident that mueller's investigation is being conducted fairly and impartially. sounds like the hard core trumpees. 60 something percent. >> thaey've run it by the book. that's why nobody has any idea when the mueller report is coming out. and they've had a lot of success in terms of the indictments, the prosecution, law enforcement material that's been turned over to other prosecutors and so

people are impressed by the work they've done and of course she's right. at the federal level we don't elect prosecutors. district attorneys. but we have designed our process to keep partisan politics away from law enforcement. that's a basic fallacy he's been committing since he took office. he thinks law enforcement reports to him. it's quite an extraordinary mistake he's made. >> thank you for the execution. and betsy wood rf. up next a new report says joe biden is busy lining up big money donors. late in april, i hear. maybe third or fourth week. is he the cavalry atabbing from the hill? e the cavay lratabbing the hill

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welcome back to "hardball." will he or won't he now? joe biden is not publicly announcing whether he's going to run for president. he's telling a half dozen supporters he's in and asked for the money. and joe biden has expressed concerns that he would not be able to raise millions the way utter democratic candidates have. and it may help that he leads in the polls. a new cnn poll has biden at 28,

followed by bernie sanders at 20 and kamala harris at 12. interestingly john kerry made that list ahead of a number of candidates. which tells you about respect for kerry and the problem a lot off them face with being known. this poll has biden ahead by ten points. and it doesn't seem like that long ago but it's 15 years ago you carey went at it. i said biden better get going here. they may be going after the same vote in some places. >> i have no view into the mind of joe biden. i think this is going toby a tough race for you. politics has changed dramatically. and those young people that

helped us win 40 seats we just picked up, that's what's driving the race, especially on the democratic side. >> and biden almost let it slip he was getting into the race as he was touting his progressive record. >> i'm the most progressive record of anybody running -- anybody who would run. >> here's a great question. of course he's been a liberal democrat. with the exception off bussing. he'll have to explain why he was for the iraq war and his experience. >> everybody runs joe biden. 28, what does that say? he's going to be formidable.

i think joe's greatest attraction is he has that 10 point margin against trump. hietz rr a safe candidate and people want to beat trump in the worst way. but there are a lot of attractive candidates out there now and they're almost all in. >> what's your bet about any democrat? say we start from the left, bernie. and democratic senators, biden. >> it absolutely matters who runs. there's a way to take on trump and a way to not take on trump. trump is going to remind everybody why they don't like him all campaign lawn. i'm totally neutral, i really am. but i think klobuchar provided a great way to deal with trump. i wonder how donald's hair would look in the snow storm? and then back to job, climate change and so forth. that's what we have to do. do this as obama did to trump

and let him give his own message because his message is not pop -- popular with americans. >> hillary clinton, one of the smartest people stands there giving a debate and trump comes like a colossal beast. what do you do in weird situations like that? >> i'm not going to share them on television but i think hillary should have waved her arms around a lot. >> let me ask you about biden's decision to be reactively and instinctively didn't like being accused as being as progressive as the newbies. can he say i'm a center left guy. stupid to vote for the war in iraq but i'm not going to say i'm the most left candidate here. >> i don't thing this is about the democrats attacking each other.

some of their followers have but for the most part they're not. >> except for marijuana. >> i missed that one. bobber said you shouldn't be bragging about drugs. >> if that's the worst thing anybody says we're in great shape. if you dis your opponent, it's going to cost you. and you're not going to. >> usually the third guy wins. a attacks b and c wins. >> that's exactly what happens. >> former speaker, newt gingrich attributes the rise of beto o'rourke to the kardashian era of politics. in the age of kardashians, o'rourke may be the perfect candidate.

he is in because he is in. he should lead because he likes to lead. we should applaud and watch in awe. some candidates have lift. they're not smarter than the utter candidates. you had it for a while in 2004. and you levitate for a while. my wife and i don't get it what makes us magic. he's got it right now. >> and it's a riot to hear gingrich complaining about the me, me, me candidate. is he in the running with kanye west? >> mr. tantrum to getten the right door of the plane. good luck with your work with the democratic data base. how about we just count the votes and decides who wins the presidency? just count the votes. presidency just count the votes -♪ just like any other family

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welcome back to "hardball." several democrats have said they would be open to eliminating the electoral college altogether, after the popular vote was denied the presidency twice >> my view is that every vote matters. and the way we can make that happen is that we can have national voting and that means get rid of the electoral college and -- >> i think dollathere's a lot t that. you had an election in 2016 where the loser got 3 million more votes than the victor. it puts some states out of play altogether. >> would you support getting rid

of the electoral college? >> absolutely. it's got to go. >> i'm open to the discussion. there's no question that the popular vote has been diminished in to who's president of the united states. >> let's restore power of the people. let's bring our democracy back to the direct democracy it was supposed to be. one person, one vote. >> president trump tweeted that brilliance of the electoral college, you go to many states to win and the other states would rule the country. i used to like the idea of the popular vote but realize the elec oral college is far better for the u.s.a. better for the u.s.a. but it's not really something you want to buy. it's not sexy. or delicious. or fun.

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a lot of colleges. you get any financial advice? yeah, but i'm pretty sure it's the same plan they sold me before. well your situation's totally changed now. right, right. how 'bout a plan that works for 5 kids, 2 dogs and jake over here? that would be great. that would be great. that okay with you, jake? get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change from td ameritrade investment management. welcome back to "hardball." president trump tweeted that he used to like the idea off a popular vote. on elebz night 2012 he said the electoral college was a disaster. after he lost the popular vote in 2016 he said multiple times he could have won the popular vote if he had tried to. he wrote campaigning for the popular vote is easier than the electoral college. it's like training for the

marathon. let's watch him in action. >> the electoral college is hard and harder to win than popular vote. popular vote you go to three, four states. the 100-yard dash verses running the mile. you practice differently. >> i would rather have the popular vote because to me it's easier. >> the electoral college is much mored mored mored a ven tajs to democrats than republicans. >> they say almost impossible for republican to win. the odds are stacked. the electoral college is genius. >> the ceo of making every vote count. and former speaker of the house boehner. what's wrong with the popular vote? >> at a time when president

trump is shredding norms, the last thing we need do is destroy another. play the game the way it was meant to be played. not increasing division >> what's wraun with one, one person, one vote? you're talking about 300 years ago. why not now? >> because this is a compromise designed to protect -- >> they used to elect senators by the legislaturer and we said -- popular vote? >> because this allows candidates to campaign all over the country to have a national message and campaign rather than just speaking to their bases and jining up the base on the coa coast . >> the electoral college causes them to focus on almost no states at all. more than 40 states there, were no visits, no get out the vote because the election results were assumed. more than 80% of the american

population was ignored. and we're already saying in 2020 the election will be decided only in florida, pennsylvania, michigan and maybe wisconsin. ridiculous. >> if we went to a popular vote right now, what would it look like? would they spend their time in california to roll up huge majorities in new york? >> of course. >> why would you go to abaclask? >> does amazon send packages everywhere? does walmart build a a store in arkansas. businesses know to reach every place in the country. and they would use the same techniques businesses use. >> i don't want a candidate dialing for dollars and running television ads. i want to make them get out in the country, go to a diverse collection of states and hear their concerns and make their

case and that's what the electoral college forces them to do. >> what do you thin when they see a candidate get 3 or 4 million more votes than the winner. >> it's massively frustrating. >> trump might have rejected the results. >> which is why it's so popular. it's a base play to frustrated democrats who have seen this happen twice in 20 years. i get it. >> okay. 55% of americans would vote to amend so the person with the most votes wins. why do some people want to keep the electoral vote? >> we did a poll, our group that concludesed last week 76% of the people in ohio believe every vote in the country should be counted equally and believe whoever wins the national vote ought to be president. everybody is going to show in their state a majority that

believes the national vote winner should be the president because that's fair play because that's the way -- >> you mean in montana which has one member of congress, three electoral votes rb even they would like to go to the national vote? >> they all believe the vote getter should be the president. the candidates pay no attention to them. >> takes 3/4s of the states to change the constitution. 13 states are currently signed on to what is called the national popular vote state compact where they plenl to give their electoral vote to the win wither of the popular vote. right now the participating states have a total of 181. are we go to get to 270? >> any state in the united states can pass a law deciding how its electors are going to be appointed and i predict as the

republican and democrats candidates go through the primaries in the spring of 2020 in every single state this issue will be joined. and they're going to z to say to the people in that state are we supporting the national vote? are we supporting the idea of an equal vote for every single person? >> and say my state votes for kamala haires for president, trump wins the popular vote and north carolina tries to send electors pledged to trump to the electoral college, this will be riots in the streets. this was to protect states rights and it has worked -- >> what happens when we have a president lose a campaign by 10 million votes and doesn't get the job? talk about rioting. >> to me president trump should want to go out and win the national popular vote just like he said the time before this. he is somebody who would love to

do that campaigning. his handlers should get out of the way and let him try it. >> every candidate would like to win the popular and electoral voight but you don't dedermen the winner of a baseball game based on attendance. tlrs electoral college -- >> that's a hell of a comparison. what i call keeping up with the trumps. call keeping up wit the trumps some things are out of your control. like bedhead.

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my topic tonight could be called keeping up with the trumps. donald trump jr. is attacking british prime minister teresa may in the newspapers for not taking advice from my father on how britain should exit from the european union. the man who once met with -- and

that other beneficiary of the nepotism is readying his plan to guess what? redivide the middle east. how busy these presidential busy bees are. one decrees what he calls his father's wisdom with how the british depart from europe. what this will do to the britishing aisles, the future of the british commonwealth and the economic health of europe itself, the son in law decreess what he thinks should be the new mideast order. the boundaries of a palestinian state and jordan. i wonder if the folks had this in mind when they voted out of resentment for the country's elite because is there anything so elite as to name members of your own family to whole spaces of the planet, from england to the arabian desert.

that being said i wonder if delusions of grander isn't just limited to one member of the family of trump. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i gave him the kind of funeral that he wanted. >> a a president bracing for impact. >> i didn't get thank you. that's okay. >> takes aim at a dead senator and the spouse of his top advisorer as he calls for the full public release of the mueller report. tonight the status of the special counsel's investigation and all the other inquiries into the president's behavior. plus new calls to investigate trump's biggest financial backer. >> the concern is they have a history of maundering russian money. >> what a joe biden candidacy would