we'll be reading axios a.m. you can sign up for the newslett newsletter. >> that does it for us on this thursday morning. morning. >> joe: starts right now. today i'm announcing that new zealand will ban all military style semi-automatic weapons. we will also ban all assault rifles. we will ban all high capacity magazines. we will ban all parts with the ability to convert semi-automatic or any other type of firearm into a military style semi-automatic weapon. >> it took one week in new zealand to go from a mass shooting to gun reform. one week. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, march 21st, along with joe, willie and me, we have historian, author and soul of america himself --

>> wow, how did you get him? >> rogers professor of the presidency, jon meacham. he's an nbc news and msnbc -- >> arc of the world universe and it slopes downward. good to see you here, john. >> that's where it all stops. former justice department spokesman, matt miller. national security reporter for nbc news, julia ainsley is with us and nbc news national reporter heidi prisbilla and jonathan la mere. good to have you all on board. it is thursday. sometimes i just read the prompter and that's a mistake. dammit. oh, well. >> mika, yesterday something happened here that was pretty interesting. we had mayor pete on. >> oh, my gosh, that was quite an event. >> mika and i, at least, i don't know about you, willie, got more

texts, calls, e-mails just from everybody. this is where i'm at on facebook, right? no, i don't want to remember what we did in eighth grade. but we just got inundated by calls. >> i did. >> we love mayor pete. >> i think there is a hunger for somebody who seems and feels and sounds and looks completely real and connected with what we're looking for, connection to history, connection to who we are, connection to faith that is honest, up front. this is who i am and this is what i'm going to bring to the table, and he does it and he -- you know, we did rapid fire with him. tried lots of different angles and he was right there for everything. my phone had everything from my republican sister in law to, you know, an extremely far left best

friend and everybody loved him. they kept texting me about him all day. >> got a lot of them. he was so insightful. i guess the good news is that actually being insightful, being knowledgeable about the issues and also having a good, positive spiritually still counts for something in politics. >> you know, part of the appeal of donald trump in 2015 was he didn't talk like a politician. pete doesn't talk like a politician except he's versed on policy. we threw how many questions at him over the course of 45 minutes. whether or not you agreed with his answer, they were thoughtful answers. these are issues he's been thinking about. i'll say it again in politics performance matters. nobody knew who he was probably a month ago. he goes out every single night. he goes and does town halls, tv appearances. if you do that over the course of a long campaign it adds up and makes a difference. he's somebody to be contended

with. >> sometimes i wonder whether the sort of know nothing -- the celebration of the know nothings, whether in brittain saying we are experts. no experts. we've heard enough from experts. whether it's the united states where donald trump clearly is not prepared for any meeting he takes. his own staff members say so. politics is always about contrasts and you want to have a stark contrast with the person you're running against. i'm just wondering whether this is a phase that we're going to get through in a few years or whether we're doomed to elect a series of president where they bathe in their ignorance and people just shun ignorance. we don't do it with brain surgeons. we don't let plumbers operate on our brains. why would we let a guy that doesn't read, doesn't

understand, doesn't want to comprehend issues run the most important country on the planet? >> partly because, you know, it was a weird reaction to someone who did read and who seemed -- president obama's opponents saw him as professorial, aloof and elite and there is something in the american spirit that bounces us from guard rail to guardrail in terms of the temperament in terms of presidents. can you imagine a collection of more different people than george herbert walker bush to bill clinton, bill clinton to george w. bush and george w. bush to barack obama. a lot of us didn't think we would see a sharper contrast except when they get aristotle and then there's this guy. the forces to answer your question directly, the forces o populism of i'm not going to talk about smart people, it's

seasonal and i think it's -- >> so you're saying after 12 years of "morning joe" we're going to -- >> it's over? >> it's over? our season is coming to an end? they're going to replace us? >> it's like the m.a.s.h. finale. barnacle is going to chopper out. >> everybody is going to be left with three words, that was it? that was it? >> but you know, also, elizabeth warren is doing the same thing. it's just that we know her policy. we've seen and heard her. she's a policy wonk. she goes to a town hall and talks about policy. kamala harris. kirsten gillibrand did it. >> there is something else. >> policy is being discussed. he's new to us. we are just meeting him. he is so well versed on so many issues. he had some rift where he was talking about policy. >> i do that and mika falls asleep. >> that's true. it's your delivery really. >> i was surprised by the number of republicans who reached out

to me saying, i'm going to support him, because i'm looking for someone. >> in pop culture terms this is a little bit like archie bunker versus aaron sorkin. archie bunker is president so we're going to enjoy the aaron sorkin like presentation. >> we have a lot to get to this morning. special counsel robert mueller is expected to make his report. yesterday president trump made another lengthy statement to discredit the former fbi director. in january of 2017 the intelligence community assessed that vladimir putin and the russian government aspired to help president trump's chances in the 2016 election and the fbi's then director james comey

revealed an open investigation into russia's ties to trump allies, an inquiry for which the president said he fired comey. the doj appointed a special counsel to pick up the investigation and clearly defined terms along with any matters that may arise from it, but yesterday president trump said he doesn't, quote, get it. >> it's interesting that a man gets appointed by a deputy. he writes a report. you know, never figured that one out. a deputy because of the fact that the attorney general didn't have the courage to do it himself, a deputy that's appointed appoints another man to write a report and now i have somebody writing a report that never got a vote? it's called the mueller report. so explain that because my voters don't get it and i don't get it. let it come out. let people see it. that's up to the attorney

general, but it's sort of interesting that a map out of the blue just writes a report. i know that he's conflicted and i know that his best friend is comey, who's a bad cop. i had a nasty business transaction with him and other things. the day before he was retained to become special counsel i told him he wouldn't be working at the fbi and then the following day they get him for this. i don't think so. >> a wrong his gruesome comments about john mccain, really we didn't know it could get lower, he's flailing. it appears he's just swimmingin out in the wind. is he stressed out? what is happening? >> i've spent half a century watching people say things in washington, d.c. i'm going to say those are some of the dumbest words to ever tumble out of a politician's

words that i've ever heard. >> homer simpson. >> he doesn't get it, that somebody who is unelected could write a report. he doesn't get it -- >> no, he gets it. >> -- which means he doesn't understa understand how the judicial branch works. >> no, that can't be. >> he doesn't understand how the judicial branch works because the supreme court of the united states defines what the constitution of the united states is every single day by writing things, writing things despite the fact they don't have to have russians buy bots or ads on facebook to help them get their seats on the supreme court. >> maybe could you explain. >> that's what donald trump does. they don't have to worry about getting russians to help influence elections in wisconsin and michigan and yet donald trump is baffled by the concept

of unelected constitutional players in a madisonian democracy. >> and baffled by someone writing a report, which you can understand, because he would never read a report. that was such a weird performance. he never had a business dispute with mueller. he was not told he wouldn't get the fbi job and then in some angry ventral person afterwards. then this idea that there's a deputy hires some man who writes a report. that's the way the justice system works. the point of our justice system is there are people who are not accountable to the president, don't -- you know, who -- who aren't supposed to follow politics, aren't supposed to follow the president's whims and are supposed to look at the law and that's what he has been hostile to throughout this investigation. he has been hostile to the fact that there isn't someone at the

justice department who isn't loyal to him. because sessions recused himself. he has been just flailing about since the beginning of this investigation because there wasn't anyone at doj who would do what he wanted to and quash this thing from the get-go. >> jonathan, i understand from your reporting that despite the fact that this report is going to reflect the fact that the president's national security advisor is a convicted felon, that his campaign advisor is a convicted felon, that his long-time attorney is a convicted felon, that his assistant campaign manager is a convicted felon -- >> so many. >> i can just stop at those four but also we can say his long-term political advisor is on his way to becoming a convicted felon. despite this, despite having the most corrupt administration in the history of american polit s politics, your reporting suggests that donald trump's going to try to, quote, weaponize the mueller report

after it comes out? >> so let's be clear. no one knows exactly what's in the report. we anticipate it's going to be soon, but its findings are not yet known to any of us. also to be clear, this is not a witch hunt. as you just detailed, joe, they're the charges and indictments speak for themselves, but there is a growing sense from the president and people close to him, yes, of course, as you saw from the remarks yesterday. as frustrated as he is that this special counsel probe is to begin with, it's a stain on his presidency which he feels he does not deserve, there has been anticipation among a broad swath of americans that the mueller report would end with a broad image that he would be led from the oval office in handcuffs. that is not expected to actually happen. and there's a growing belief in trump's circle that there isn't going to be some smoking gun here. there isn't going to be a bombshell -- new bombshell development in the final report whenever it is issued and whenever it is released so, therefore, he's going to try to hold it up as an example of

government overreach. try to say, hey, look, i gave this to you for two years. i didn't interfere. i didn't fire him and it didn't prove that i did it. we of course can take exceptions to that as you just -- >> but, jonathan, again, we've listed that four or five of his key players from the campaign are in jail or are going to jail and also robert mueller at least a couple of months ago had made a tiny little profit on this investigation. >> right. i is going to play on the ideas of perception not reality which is not the first time he's done this. it's probably not shocking to anyone listening or watching that he's going to try to claim victory when there isn't one. yes, he's going to suggest there's overreach, it cost too much and it went on too long. most crucially, he's going to say this. look, you had your shot at me. there's not this ironclad proof that i colluded. therefore, what are the democrats still doing on the house? he's going to suggest that

according to people we talked to, according to our reporting, that he's going to take this whether it's on twitter o or a rally stage, the mueller report was your chance to prove this. it didn't happen. if the democrats are investigating me, there's proof that this is partisan. >> willie, how long has it been going -- the benghazi sflegs. >> the second term. >> after the election. >> after hillary clinton lost they gave it up. they really -- republicans have absolutely no room to whine or complain about anything. unlike the benghazi, people are getting sent to jail here. again, quoting churchill, this is not the beginning of the end, this is the end of the beginning. >> yeah. >> there are going to be a lot of prosecutors, especially in the southern district of new york that will look at his report, and then they're probably going to pick up prosecutions.

>> and maybe waiting for the president when he leaves office in a couple of years or in six years. >> do you think donald trump thinks that he's ever going to get these legal problems behind him? or does he think the sins of the last 30 years will follow him for the rest of his life? >> i think he knows. that's why he's worried about it. julia, you saw his efforts there one more time to discredit bob mueller. it's just not working. if you look at the polls, he has appointed bob mueller as a man of integrity and who served himself throughout his life. he's not a hack. he led the fbi. we know all of these things. can he say consider the source, that this was a partisan witch hunt. >> that's right, willie. i don't usually weigh in on the president's strategies here. i stay on the judicial side of this. i was thinking about what joe said earlier about politics being in contrast. i think that's really difficult for this president because we haven't even seen robert mueller since he was appointed.

he has been totally silent. there are no leaks out of his office. as much as we all might try to get more information about what's in this report, it's really unknown. we think it's coming any day now. we don't have a specific point. i think that's really starting to get under the president's skin. we're seeing him lash out in ways that are even less logical than we've seen in the past if that's possible and so he's starting to take these hits. another thing he said yesterday that didn't even make a hit on the truth bull's eye at all is whether or not the president has any control over what we see in the public. he says, i think they should release everything. well, that's not only not up to the president, it's really not up to robert mueller. it's up to the attorney general, william barr. he will get this report from mueller and then it's up to him what will go to congress. he'll have to write a brief report and then how much is actually made public. so the idea that the president is giving us some kind of gift by saying release the whole thing, i have nothing to hide,

really just doesn't hold a lot of water for me. >> you know, matt, people close to the investigation, not the mueller investigation, but people in the senate, the house have -- many have said that don jr. committed perjury. robert mueller, if he did, certainly knows that to be the case. i've heard from the beginning that mueller is very conservative. he won't swing for the fences. he'll report, get the information out and then he's going to let the appropriate authorities do what they do with it. is indicting the son of a sitting president too bold of a move for robert mueller? would he leave that to somebody else or is there any reason why he would hold back on indicting don jr. if, in fact, if he did commit perjury? >> no, if he committed a crime he would do that. there are some pieces he could refer to other prosecutors. you could see the elliott brady

scandal about working for the uae, influence peddling, you can refer that to another prosecution team. that's a lot of weight to ask the u.s. attorney to indict the president's son. i think you would see mueller do that himself. one of the things people are missing about the conclusion of this investigation, if he looks at, say, don jr. or jared kushner and decides what they did was really terrible. they came right up to the line of committing a crime and didn't cross that line, i don't think we should expect to see that in a public report. that was a mistake that i think we saw jim comey make. if he has evidence about them that doesn't quite rise to criminality, he shouldn't be talking about it publicly. very different ball game with the president. >> let's underline that right now. when somebody came out earlier

and said we don't need complete transparency. that's being consistent with what we all said after james comey decided not to indict hillary clinton but then indicted her politically. you either indict them or keep your mouth shut. >> yeah, rod rosenstein has been trying to tamper expectations about what we see in this report. this isn't some tell all that's going to air the president's dirty laundry and then not lead to a criminal indictment especially given the high bar with the fact that many think you can't indict a sitting president. you can't come out and tar someone's reputation when you're not referring them for creimina prosecution. that's not the way the justice department works. their tool is to prosecute. it's not to bring up wrongdoings someone has done. >> meanwhile, the chairman of

the house oversight committee is blasting the trump administration for refusing to hand over documents to his committee. in an op ed for the washington post chairman elijah cummings writes in part i serve as chairman of the oversight and reform committee, the primary investigative body in the house of representatives. i have sent 12 letters to the white house on a half-dozen topics, some routine and some relating to the core national security interests. in response, the white house has refused to hand over any documents or produce any witnesses for interviews. this, the chairman agrees, to deny this. the president's actions, quote, violate our constitution's fundamental principle of checks and balances adding if our committee must resort to issuing

subpoenas, there should be no doubt about why. heidi, who is could often perfe -- cooperating? >> the chairs are going to face a decision here, mika. to your point with cummings, no one to the hush money payment example, they sent letters to the white house to try to get the ethics lawyers who filled out trump's financial disclosures, they were told basically no. as you saw in his interviews, it's also going on with the judiciary committee. based on reporting as of last night, only 50% of the individuals and entities on that list of 81 are actually cooperating in some form. here's the challenge that they face. folks like nadler said we're not going to issue a flood of

subpoenas that can be ignored. that undermines our power and authority. what do they do? like you saw with the op ed, what they're trying to do is soften the ground for some strategic subpoenas and to also start to build the case for why not only should the public see the mueller report but that congress should also be able to access the underlying documents of the mueller report and have access to those. they are harkening back to what happened, for example, with the last congress with an unprecedented release of justice department reports and information, for example, about carter page to the congress. so they're realizing here their limits that so many people are taking a pass and challenging them to issue subpoenas which will take a long time to play out. >> heidi and nbc's julia ainsley, thank you for being on this morning. we'll be reading your new reporting on the trump

administration rolling out a policy in el paso, texas, requiring asylum seekers to stay in mexico while they await court hearings. still ahead on "morning joe," beto o'rourke isn't the only failed candidate from 2018 looking to make a mark in 2020. there's also andrew gillum and stacey abrams. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. mimini was born extraordinary, with more power for more fun. mini was born to do the only thing we ever wanted to do. drive. to hit start and just go. fast and far. around town and around hairpins. to leave everyone in the dust, and leave rubber on the road. because mini was born to drive. drive for yourself at the mini born to drive sales event.

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want more from your entejust say teach me more. into your xfinice remote to discover all sorts of tips and tricks in x1. can i find my wifi password? just ask. [ ding ] show me my wifi password. hey now! [ ding ] you can even troubleshoot, learn new voice commands and much more. clean my daughter's room. [ ding ] oh, it won't do that. welp, someone should. just say "teach me more" into your voice remote and see how you can have an even better x1 experience. simple. easy. awesome. the razor wire used to reinforce the u.s./mexican border is being stolen by tijuana residents. >> you have that right. mexico is stealing the wall.

i wish i could have been there when donald trump saw this story on the news. they did what? nancy, i'm going to need you to spot me another $8 million. we're going o need another wall to protect the first one. mexicans will be showing off their new home security system. i built a wall around my house and donald trump paid for it. >> all right. >> you had that in bell maed? a couple of people upper middle class tried to move into the neighborhood. >> sure. >> do what you've got to do. willie, people know what we do every day. >> they don't want to know. >> go to the orphanage, we go to the holiday inn, smoke a couple of -- >> cartons. >> 12 years later. >> unfiltered. >> stop. >> what did i always tell you after the seventh carton? i've got to go. i'm late.

so we rush home. get in front of the tv set. turn on tv and it's "hardball." that was a nice one. after matthews said ghost in the white house. >> that's his opening line. >> mysterious. >> seriously. >> ghost in the white house? >> yes. mccain. >> good "hardball." >> that's a great tease. we're going to be talking about the ghost in the white house. >> other news coming up, some of the other news we're following this morning. united kingdom is scheduled to leave the european union next friday -- >> no. >> -- and there's still no brexit deal in place. prime minister theresa may blamed parliament for the mess yesterday. european counsel president donald tusk said he believes a short conditional brexit delay, quote, will be possible with the

condition being parliament must vote in favor of may's withdrawal deal, which is far from a certainty. the delay would also still need unanimous approval from the other members of the eu. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu will visit the white house next week. >> are they going to let him out of israel? >> yes. look at these pictures. >> they're showing. >> take his passport. >> yeah. >> president trump and netanyahu will have a working meeting on monday and a dinner on tuesday. the trick comes less than a month after israel's attorney general announced he intends to indict the prime minister on a host of corruption, bribery, and fraud charges. >> maybe giuliani can come to the dinner and give him a bit of advice. >> he can be the notetaker or translator. netanyahu had adopted fake news line. it comes ahead of israel's elections set for april 9th. look at the pictures they have there.

that's just right for donald. he loves pictures of himself. in his first network swrir view since his confirmation last month, environmental protection agency administrator andrew wheeler said that unsafe drinking water, quote, poses the greatest and most immediate global threat to the environment, not climate change. wheeler added that although climate change is important and must be addressed, most of its threats are like 50 to 75 years out while unsafe drinking water is killing people right now. rescue efforts continue in three of the poorest countries after a cyclone hit the country. aid agencies are calling the flading the worst natural disaster to hit the region in two decades. central mozambique was hit the hardest. the storm impacted neighboring malawi and zimbabwe and in total is believed to have affected

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i. last week the democrats made a terrible decision when they announced that they had turned down fox news's offer to host one of their 2020 primary debates saying fox was nothing more than propaganda. okay. so why not go on fox news and tell them that. you want to be in the big leagues but you refuse to ever play an away game? you don't like the questions that fox news might ask so you're deciding not to take any questions at all? how very trump of you. republicans never shy away with coming on this show and they come with a smile on their face despite knowing the only people in the crowd cheering them on are the three campaign aides.

so what if there are groans. it's full of pouting and worts of all, tucker face. >> it was a great point. >> yeah. >> if you're the resistance, the resistance fights behind enemy lines so go behind enemy lines. if it's a republican who considers cnn enemy lines, go there. deliver your message. it's a democrat that's offended by fox, go there and talk on fox. >> think of how much money you could raise whoever you were saying for every ten minutes we're on fox, donate while we're carrying the fight to the enemy. >> it's one thing to say you don't want to sit with shaun hannity. if you can't take those

questions -- >> and shap smith. >> you can do that. >> yeah. there are a lot of people on that network from 6:00 in the morning to 8:00 at night. if you want to avoid primetime, there are a lot of people. if they had a debate, it's not like they're going to have hannity or ingram. >> you wouldn't agree to that. >> right. they're going to have who they have had in the past. >> joining us now, former chief of staff to the dccc and strategic communication, adrian elrod. she's an msnbc contributor. >> adrian, we keep hearing, mika and i keep hearing that joe biden is moving toward picking stacey abrams as his running mate. and that if he gets in, he will make that announcement. >> joe, i'm hearing the exact same thing. who knows what will happen. i am hearing that his decision

is made and that he is getting in and he will be announcing in the very near future. >> john, that would be his new york. >> absolutely. it also would answer questions. >> i tonight think it's surprising that he runs. if he announces a ticket on the front end, i can't think of perhaps it happened in the 19th century but for a major -- for a former vice president to do this, willie and i were talking about this earlier. it is unusual in that it would foreclose the possibility of rewarding someone who did extremely well to bring those supporters in. for vice president biden, this is his third run. ronald regan ran three times. it's not unprecedented at all. what these guys deal with is

this -- which he knows and we've talked to him about it, is the sense that he's the last dinosaur of a party that is changing so radically. can he argue that he actually is the voice of victory in order to bring this generation into power? >> yeah, you know, i think to your point that, you know, we have such -- the democrats, we, the democrats, have such a great field of candidates and to watch them work it all out over the coming months, there could be someone who really emerges who would be a great running mate and it could be stacey abrams and it could be a woman, but i also don't think it has to be a woman. that's sort of demeaning to women that it has to be required. so i don't know. announcing early a running mate, it seems to me -- well, we'll see what happens. i feel like we're closing off opportunity. >> don't you remember the epic cruz fiorini?

>> fair enough. you can imagine the scenario that kamala harris does well and joe biden wins and she's left to the side where in a conventional process you might choose her as your running mate. i don't know if it's a bad idea. i have to think it through. you're kind of leaving a lot of people out. >> what it shows is he feels he needs someone to get him through customs of the new democratic party. >> by the way -- which is fine, he may need that. in the past we've talked about he ran in '88, he ran in 2008, he didn't create much of a buzz. he got 2% despite running a great campaign in 2008. maybe stacey abrams or somebody like that gets him through, as you say, customs and may not be a bad a de. jonathan, what are you hearing? >> certainly that is the growing belief is that biden is going to

get in, get in soon and american voters, this will be a new prospect. the idea of how do voters interpret this? is this almost joe biden suggesting that he's a lame duck, he's going to be a one termer? what will people think of that? as much as abrams develops youth. as far as the white house perspective, what i picked up is there is concern that biden is popular among the voters that gave the president the white house the last time around. that sort of white working class, lower middle class rust belt voter who lives in pennsylvania and wisconsin or michigan. that's the place where biden was traditionally always very popular. there's a sense among people close to the president that, yes, biden leads the polls right

now. it's because of name recognition. a lot of democrats have the feeling of rosie joe. once biden is out there day after day, he'll be reminded of why they didn't vote for him the last two times he ran and that includes his propensity for the verbal slipup including the other day where he almost announced his candidacy a solid couple of weeks before he meant to. i think it is a tip though that the president has targeted biden as well as beto o'rourke, the people that he's tweeting about are probably people that are probably most on his radar and perhaps most concerning. >> jonathan may have touched on something. maybe biden says, i'm going to be a one-term president. i understand i'm older. i understand i'm older. i'm going to work for four years, clean this up, turn it over to stacey abrams, face of new generation. >> my view of this is donald trump is president of the united states so what the hell do we

know? >> thank you. >> these rules don't mean anything anymore. the conventional wisdom about biden being a gaffe machine. the president lies. >> the bar is different. >> we're sort of judging him by normal standards when we're in a totally abnormal era. >> so right. >> what could have sunk a presidential candidate in 1988 doesn't get a cough. >> maybe it's what we need. >> two pin knowing yocchios. >> not only does it not get a cough, it makes him authentic. absolutely. after this presidency biden's previous liabilities are no longer going to be seen in that light to the point whether he's a one term, two term president, the way i see the stacey abrams announcement is this is a really clear play to put together the obama coalition which is

something the hillary clinton campaign really failed to do and why in the end they couldn't juice the turnout among a lot of these african-american voters in urban areas that they needed to, whether it was in michigan, whether it was in north carolina, that they very much know what biden's liabilities from the past are and they are kind of similar to hillary clinton with the african-american committee. if you remember one of the things the russians did with targeting african-americans on facebook was play up hillary clinton's super predator remarks. joe biden's history on criminal y justice reform and bankruptcy will come back in some capacity. this is him trying to inoculate himself against that. whether it's the right decision for the long term, it's a pretty clear calculation that he's making in the present term and

in the context of a democratic primary. >> it's difficult to criticize him for what he did on 1973 and 1974 on bus fg stacey abrams is his running mate. >> can we just say the name no one's mentioned, anita hill. that's the same. the iraq vote. obama put him on the ticket to carry pennsylvania but there's an extraordinary record there to go through. >> adrian, at the end of the day do you think it's a good idea? do you think it's a bad idea for joe biden to go ahead and move out? and if he announces, to have stacey abrams? >> you know, i can see it both ways, joe. i think on the one hand it does make a lot of sense for the

reasons everybody's just mentioned. joe biden served in elected office since he was 29 years old. he has a huge voting record that is going to be chastised and picked apart if he decides to run for the presidency. a lot of that has to do with his criminal justice reform record. there's a whole litany of issues and votes. if you do have somebody like stacey abrams on the ticket, it helps balance that out. it is unconventional but we are living in very unconventional times. it makes him stabbed out and hit the campaign trail and allow him to be in two platces at once frm the get-go. on the flip side, who knows? four months down the road people may be wanting somebody like kamala harris to be his running mate or there may be other people who emerge who might make more sense.

so it's kind of a gamble. i think if it were joe biden it's potentially worth the risk. >> by the way, we've brought up now two black women. stacey abrams as well as kamala harris. democrats understand something that the media hasn't focused on. look at the numbers. hillary clinton didn't need the working class white man to win that election if black voters and hispanic voters had come out in the numbers they had in past elections. that's why biden will do well with working class white voters, it's not bad to get somebody that can re-energize the base that helps drive democrats to victory in these elections. >> adrian, thank you very much

for coming on. heidi, thank you as well. coming up, a former white house aide who sat outside the oval office for the first year of the trump presidency is now set to be

welcome to ""morning joe." beautiful not so beautiful. new york is always beautiful. formerly white house communications director and trump confidante hope hicks will reportedry cooperate with the house judiciary committee investigation into the president. according to cnn, the committee is seeking documents relating to michael flynn's false statements to fbi, the firing of james comey. trumps involvement in payoffs to silence women and the drafting of a misleading 2017 statement regarding don junior's trump tower meeting with russians. hicks was a key player in trump's orbit one of his earliest aides and until a year

ago was a senior white house official sitting outside the oval office. last year she testified before the house intelligence committee and reportedly told lawmakers she sometimes told white lies on behalf of the president. matt, it's interesting through the conversation about the mueller report and the investigations, we haven't heard hope hicks's name a lot. what role do you think she plays in the big picture. >> i think she has to face the decision that all of the former white house staffers face. is do you want to be tide to donald trump forever? do you want your career ruined because you come up and take the fifth amendment and refuse to cooperate? see the line that she is coops cooperating. that's a a line from a defense attorney saying she is going to cooperate. when you look at everybody in the white house. john kelly, h.r. mcmaster. don mcguyana. some with a long career and some with a long time ahead.

they have to make a decision when asked legitimate questions by congress about the president's fitness for office and actions he took, they witnessed, are they going to continue to the cooperate. >> not cooperating, right. >> hicks cooperating kelly not. >> the white house can prevent current employees from going up and testifying at the hill. they can't do that with former employees. if john kelly and h.r. mckafrt and gary cohen, if they want to comply with a lawful subpoena, there is nothing the white house can do to stop them. it's up to them. >> matt miller, good to walk behind you and see you. thank you very much. i walked behind his shot. >> oh, shot. >> you just wandered in. >> you're new to tv. >> i know i haven't done this before. >> jan, i'm sorry, i say stop, stop, stop right. >> i did give. >> the. >> she walked -- she walked

right through. >> coming up, donald trump attacks john mccain, and he does it again and again. and this time lindsey graham put a bit more effort into defending his friend. just a bit. plus scrutiny into the trump administration's close ties to boeing intensifies. ""morning joe" is become in a moment. ing joe" is become in a moment a way to create energy from household trash. it not only saves about 80% in carbon emissions... it helps reduce landfill waste. that's why bp is partnering with a california company: fulcrum bioenergy. to turn garbage into jet fuel. because we can't let any good ideas go to waste. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing. we do whatever it takes to fight cancer. these are the specialists we're proud to call our own. experts from all over the world working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. expert medicine works here.

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funeral that he wanted, which as president i had to approve. i don't care about this. i didn't get thank you. that's okay. >> i didn't get a thank you, is it just me i think it would have been hard for john mccain to thank trump that day. trump then added not to mention i let john mccain take that day off work, even though he used up all his vacation days. and in the mccain family's defense, a hallmark mass a limited offering for thank you for the funeral cards. >> back to "morning joe," thursday march 21st, still with us we have msnbc contributor author of soul of america. jon meacham and jonathan lemire and joining the conversation associate editor of comment tear

magazine, noah rothman, and senior adviser at move on.org and msnbc contributor karin. and jonathan you're real smart and in washington. first of all, i didn't get a thank you from my mother for her funeral a couple weeks ago. should i hold this against her. >> stop it. no. >> it is difficult to send thank yous from onthe grave typically. >> please, do brag. >> well, i don't want to brag but the hard ball you guys were talking about the mccain segment. i was on that hard ball segment. >> i would like to you explain as you did on the mystery version of hard ball. >> so great. >> what exactly did donald trump not get wrong? but what did he get right about that statement? and please explain whether he is the one making the decision

about whether he lies in state in congress. about whether the ceremony is at the national cathedral, et cetera? >> he got far more wrong than right. he did play a small role in the mccain funeral proceedings. but no president approves the funerals of members of congress. congress decides who lies in state. the washington national cathedral has oversight of what happens in their church. the services for mccain in arizona was done by the governor there. what the president did do was arrange for a military transport that would take mccain's casket from arizona to washington. he arranged for some of the horses and the bands and some of the procession that came with it. he did play a small role in the proceedings but certainly didn't give the funeral to john mccain. he certainly shouldn't expect a thank you from the late senator. and more than that, in illuminates how mccain mab

persistently under his skin and he is unable to let any slight go, even in in case seven or more months after mccain passed away. >> jon meacham, he was talking about him in present tense. attacking him in present tense. >> more disturbing. >> to a very quiet audience, who was horrified by what he was saying. for those of us who knew john mccain, i can hear his laughter that he is getting under donald trump's skin seven months later. >> i think the other thing is -- i would bet a good bit of mona the president is conflating mccain's death with president bush's. and it's mixed up up there. i think he is sort of confused about state funerals. and i guess you could say that sentence about almost everything and leave the object of the preposition open.

but i think that's a big part of this. and it is -- one of the remarkable things about this era and what's going to make it i think fairly straightforward for historians is could this man have an unexpressed thought? i don't know from a purely physical scientific view he could? so that he talks and anything that comes to mind comes out. so his obsession with these figures who were military heroes, who did have extraordinary connections to their parties, however complicated, is pennsylvania constant obsession. and someone commented i think brilliantly -- this is macbeth meets c-span. >> it is. noah you're writing about this. it's also odd if you look yesterday on twitter you see he is in a battle with one of the foremost conservative legal

minds, george conway. he is in a battle with a ghost of john mccain, a man swept into washington in the reagan revolution in the '80s and served the republican party and nominee in 2008. you have pete waner who ran karl rove's shop for george bush. all of them talking about how this man is breaking down mentally before our eyes. niece are people who were the back bone of the republican party and the the conservative movement for 30 years. >> yeah, i mean i don't see any behavior that's different, though from what he has always done. he has always been in unstable. so the extent that there is a mental issue. >> i think there is a ramp-up the past few days. >> in that case we are in real trouble. >> totally agree.

>> you get a glimmer of self-consciousness. which is an effort to stigma tucci this man. the president is trying to justify saying the steele dossier he gave to the fbi, and the obama care vote. the feud began between the two of them in early 2015 right after he came down the sclart from john mccain dissented from comments about mexico. the notion that mccain giving in trouble document to the authorities. but the obamacare really sticks under my skin, because john mccain voted against one iteration of the obamacare repeal bill. donald trump campaigned against another one. he said on a stump in iowa that it was mean, lacked heart, didn't have enough money. he killed that bill. he gets a total pass from his supporters for killing that bill because it was based in conscious. but john mccain killing this

iteration is unacceptable. >> ridiculous. it was a skinny repeal anyway. it shouldn't surprise us we shouldn't waste our breath to let you know donald trump is lying about that. if you are a trump supporter saying john mccain was a traitor because he didn't vote to repeal obamacare, please, don't admit that to anybody outside of your home, because that's a really stupid thing to say. i ask you, again, get your manned out of the blender. turn it off first then get your handout of the blender. go next door and ask to borrow the google machine because you're going to make a fool of yourself if you are repeat this. get that. blender off. >> handout. >> this may may apply to those

criticizing president trump including lindsey graham. >> i think the president's comments about senator mccain hurt him more than they hurt the legacy of senator mccain. i'm going to try to continue to help the president. and a lot of people are coming to john's defense now. but call them crazy and a war amonger, so it's interesting to see the politics how this dispute is being used to bash trump by people against both trump and mccain. i've got to know the president. we have a good working relationship. i like him. i don't like it when he says things about my friend john mccain. >> so how do you characterize the way president trump was talking about senator mccain? and what do you think it says about the president. >> it's zploerable said.

>> pan that was senator johnny isaacson. he was a republican from georgia. he was clear in the condemnation. >> lindsey can't just come out and condemn the president. >> why? good gracious. >> what does he mean by i think it's interesting that some people who didn't work with john mccain are now defending him. yes, he is dead. he can't defend himself. he is a dead war hero who rotted in a hanoi prison. >> served this country for decades. >> hurt so badly he couldn't raise his arms above his shoulders the rest of his life and refused to leave until all of his other inmates left. i mean, what does lindsey not understand? that's not a partisan fight. you can fight over wars and fight over campaign finance and you don't fight over there. >> you don't need to qualify that. some of the republicans -- even mitch mcconnell, the majority leader he came out and talked

about mccain what a great man he was but wouldn't condemn president trump. many of the camp can't bring themselves to criticize the president. >> it was a weak tweet. let me step back a second. s in a president who refused to serve, besides never served but refused to serve attacking a war hero, a veteran. the thing that i think is really the damage is made just imagine waking up this morning as a veteran and you hear the commander in chief attacking a war hero, a veteran. or you're an active duty soldier overseas up a hear the commander in chief attacking a war hero. there is no bottom with this guy. we say that over and over again. but there is some fundamental damage he is doing with our own military doing that. he spoke for five minutes unprompted saying they asked me because they love me. it's all about him. and he just needs to be president. but it seems like it will never

happen. >> in defense from some of the president's supporters that he is a counterpufrmer. you're counterpunching against a guy dead for seven months. >> it's like the commercial that says timing is everything. the guy stairs at her she gets up and leave crying and five minutes later he goes i love you too. you're counterpunching so slow and old and out of shape you're counterpunching. >> no. >> and counterpunching against what? >> against his honor. counterpunching against the fact that john zman was more of a man than donald trump ever was and ever will be. he was a hero. you know, it's interesting, though, you talked about all the deferments. i learned something yesterday really interesting. bob kerry, former senator of nebraska who left part of himself on the battlefield in vietnam actually explained that

those don't go away. >> he would have those bone spurs. maybe we should -- who is the doctor with hair all over the place? >> wow. okay. >> let's have a foot exam on the president. >> here is the thing. we are getting to the george conway fiasco now. but this is -- you ask why is he doing this? this is crazy. this is a sad example of how low he has to go to deflect. you have to go to these extents to deflect because moep hicks is cooperating. you have to deflect because you found out michael cohen was investigated seven months before the raid on his office. you have to deflect because oversight is asking for people to come forward and for documents and for answers. and they're now threatening subpoenas. you have to deflect because you keep hearing the mueller report is coming out. i would think that would make

you a little nervous. really. >> i guess that's the thing. >> this is what he is doing. >> this is what we're. >> he is being as grow tevfik as possible because that will distract -- i named four things. there are about ten others that are haunting him. and haunting the presidency, as you said at the beginning of the show, the most update presidency in the history of the white house. >> well, now speaking of the distractions it's shaping up to be another day of attacks between the president of the united states and george conway who is already up this morning tweeting his critique of president trump. >> conway gets the best of of him every time. do you not think. >> he is like a hero. >> the conservative lawyer george conway, husband of kellyanne conway repeatedly after trump yesterday after the president tweeted george conway often referred to as mr. kellyanne conway. >> let's stop there. by the way, is that an insult.

>> that's an insult. >> if i'm called mika brzezinski. >> that is what you're called. >> that is what i'm called. i got no problem with that. but isn't that fascinating that that reprobate that that actually thinks that's insulting somebody's manhood, the man -- i'm not a man because they called me mr. mika brzezinski. what decade -- that is pre. >> you're lucky. >> can i hug sflu no, stop. >> pennsylvania little touch of the hand. >> oh, my god. >> get it over here. here we go. he is jealous of his wife success and angry that i with her help didn't give him the job he wanted. >> didn't want the job. >> i barrel know him. not true. but look at a scone cold looser from hell. >> you got to put that down. willie geist. >> no, what? >> donald trump attacks a war hero earlier in the day and some

of the stooges on twitter call him a traitor. trump mccain. war hero. later in the day donald trump attacks a man for being a bad husband. husband from hell. go. donald trump. >> dripping with irony. >> donald trump is judging another man. >> stormy. >> you talk about stormy weather. >> george conway responded to the president in a series of tweets writing you seem determined to prove my point good for you. talking about narcissistic personality disorder. in another tweet squa referred to the president as nuts. >> sometimes less is more. >> but the feud didn't stop. here is what president trump said to reporters yesterday. >> i don't know him. he is a whack job. but i don't know him. i think he is doing a tremendous stfs to a wonderful wife. kellyanne is a wonderful woman.

and i call him mr. kellyanne. the fact is that he is doing a tremendous disservice to a wife and family. she is a wonderful woman. >> it goes bout saying the president knows george conway knows him well that's why kellyanne defended trump in an interview with politico. >> really helping with the deflection. >> she said this. he left it alone for months out of respect for me. but you think he shouldn't respond when somebody a non-medical professional accuses him of having a mental disorder? you think he should take that sitting down in kellyanne talking about the president. she went on to say, the president is obviously defending me. he could privately say to me honey you're a distraction we love you you'll be part of the family but go be with the kids go make a million dollars an hour. go do that, honey. it's the opposite that she is supporting her. >> this is an episode of dallas in the '80s it's the white house. it's where we are. it's the list i gave you which

we could put ten more things on. he is trying to distract. and it's fascinating. we'll take the distraction. y'all are crazy. >> the answer to kellyanne conway's president, should the president of the united states ignore a private citizen who is offering armchair psychology about him? the answer is yes. you should. you should not respond to that tp it demeans the office. it demeans you. it lowers the entire conversation. yes you should reserve those thoughts. >> a psychiatrist reached out to me saying it's true but go ahead. >> this is what donald trump has never understood. never understood. jonathan le miles an ho jonathan lemire. i was too young to run for congress. the republicans wouldn't let me me. >> here we go. >> stop for a zbleekd the kids want to hear this. >> can joe talk. >> can i talk. >> can joe get a second. >> dang it!

so i had to lie to get in the campaign school. i'm not going to be in a campaign. we had this guy that came in that said, never punch down. if somebody insults you at a rally, don't write a letter to the editor. if somebody insults you in a letter to the editor. write a letter to the editor, right. don't write an editorial responding to the letter to the editor. goent go on tv so on. don't pinch down. it's something i always remembered. it's brilliant advice. it's simple advice. and it is advice that would have made donald trump's life so much better. and so much more -- well, just simpler. if he had followed that. but can you believe he is punching down and fighting a private attorney every single day? >> yes, i can believe it. >> you can believe it. exactly and. >> there is the problem. >> lies the problem. >> for weeks now.

this has been a long running thing the george conway criticism of the president. and aides have pleaded with him to ignore it. don't punch down for any private citizen but particularly one married to one of your senior aides for a few weeks that seemed to work. but it's stopped. it's akin to every time there is an unflattering book written about the president with cliff sims the former aide being the recent example. he is told don't talk about it or tweet about tp and the president listens a couple days but then stumbles on a new segment about the book. lights up on twitter and gives more attention to a relatively aanonymous aide's accounting in the white house than he would have ever received. it's not just punching down. but goes to cmo you that people close to him have been concerned in the last we can or so. mika you were on, how distracted he seems. the weekend tweet storm with 707

odd tweets over 36 hours. he is feeling the pressure of democratic investigations, the endgame of the mueller report, the fact that to some he is blamed for what happened in new zealand, the shooting he feels that's unfair. and even -- and even he is taking criticism out on fox news which he found normally as a safe harbor during the intimate tumultuous time. >> he is upset with gentleman jeanine was upset. >> it's ramped up and twisted. >> this president has always led by chaos. we know that from the beginning of his presidency from during his -- certainly his candidacy. but there is a pressure cooker happening. he is under a lot of pressure for all the things you listed, mika. now it's just starting to -- we're starting to see the explosion. >> who could -- yeah. >> and it's dangerous. we're getting into more dangerous times now that he doesn't know how to fight back.

and so he goes on twitter and starts a war. >> so let me ask you really quickly just a side issue. we've been talking about joe biden this morning. how does biden shake up the race and impact the race? >> i love uncle joe as he fondly has been called. i worked in the obama administration. i got to travel with him while in the obama administration. he brings a lot of kind of experience. he is remembered fondly by the obama supporters. and i think that's why he is doing so well. and he is also seen as connected to obama successes. he should jump into the race. he is bringing a lot of experience. going to shake it up a bit. it's interesting to see. i know there was this conversation about stacey abrahams picking her as the vp. she is a rising star. look what she did in georgia. overperformed better than any exactic. >> is that a good idea. >> i think the way he looks at it he knows -- he is 76 years

old, part of the old guard. it's a way of saying i'm bringing in the new fresh faces. really this is the next generation of the democratic party. and we have to be honest, stacey abrahams excites the african-american women which is going to be a key demographic for democrats in the primary and whoever is the nominee. >> thank you very much for being on. >> thank you. >> and still ahead on "morning joe," congressman max rose, standing by, the new york democrat joins the table next on "morning joe." >> john was born to meet that kind of challenge, to defend and demonstrate the defining ideals of our nation. if we're ever tempted to forget who we are, grow weary of our cause, john's voice will always come as a whisper over or shoulder, we are better than this. america is better than that. a i. this and even this. but i don't have to clean this,

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not my kind of guy. but some people like him. and i think that's great. now let's get back. >> you know, i -- he brings it up sometimes on his own. >> i don't know why and i don't think he scores points even with his strong republican supporters when he does this. whether you grow with john mccain or disagree with his attitude about whether he was a great human being and a historic figure. and there is no logical reason to make these arguments after he is dead. >> i wonder where the advice is coming from now. you don't really know who is left around there. >> i don't either. >> i don't really know. crazy. just, you know, locked up in the hanoi hilton for -- >> what he went through very few people have gone through remain cheerful and stayed in the nation's office after it was over with. >> i just got to ask him. >> i do. >> who loves shep?

john napolitano. >> how cigarette is shep smith. >> he's really got it. he is good. anyway how. >> people are going to remember this. >> there are a lot of good people. he is good. >> that's a great thing. videotape is forever. and things like that forever. >> we have all seen. i remember during the bush administration people blindly supporting george bush. blindly for things they shouldn't have supported bush for. i go, you know he is not going to be president forever. what you're saying now is going to remain with you. >> buts in a whole another -- >> i knew that because i made mistakes. and they stay there forever. other people make mistakes. but these people kowtowing to trump, shep smith mark him on the honor role. >> the democratic congressman

max rose of new york, also a veteran of the war in afghanistan and was awarded a bronze star and a purple heart. >> max we already love you. >> love you guys too. >> you hear how quiet it is where the president was speaking with two military vehicles behind him didn't seem a rally. >> max, you can't run for president. >> i'm only two years old, otherwise i'd jump in it's the cool thing to do. >> all the cool kids are doing it. >> no doubt about it. >> the infrastructure bills. >> you did something we didn't understand. maybe you can. >> what is it. >> i don't understand much. i'm a dumb country boy. >> no. >> it's just who i am. >> did what did he apologize for. >> you apologized at a toubl meeting for something you didn't do. >> let's step back. one of the reasons i ran for office is because we have to change politics in in country.

everybody is blaming each other, constant the harassment, deflection. during the shutdown and stood up and said this is my fault. okay. certainly i think that a big part of in lays at the president's feet but i take responsibility for it and i didn't take a cent of salary during the shutdown. i donated it to charity. kmds ylon omar caused pain. in the jewish community she apologized we are working as hard as we can to make sure it doesn't happen. but i thought it was important to stand up in front of the jewish community on staten piled. i failed you. we caused you hurt and we're working to make sure it doesn't happen again. it's not just jewish communities feeling pain. we see muslims feeling incredible amounts of pain. >> you apologized -- you apologized but you were one of the first people if not the first person to go out

criticizing the remarks. and nancy pelosi and the house democrat, the leadership came together that a strong way. you got the guy running the republican party right now in the house of representatives spitting out anti-semitic tweets during the campaign. >> you didn't see member of the republican party tank responsibility for that or criticize for that. and that's what my issue is with them. we don't see any leadership, none. >> donald trump, by the way puts a stack of hundred bills. >> you see see janet yellen lambing over. this is the issue with the media, okay. the coverage of in and the democratic side has been incredibly disproportionate. when minority leader mccarthy made the comments about tweeted out. we didn't see members of the press camped outside his office. so it's undoubtedly the press is

acting as if they are agents of the republican party right now. that's a part of life. one more point here. the republican party is focusing on this as much as they can because they have zero ideas. zero plans for how they can pursue better america. >> but the backlash from representative omar. >> you're a pundit zbliet. >> you're a pundit. >> i'm not. >> i'm a dumb country lawyer. but aoc -- didn't aoc anybody calling her a marx anti-semitic is way off. >> i'm not an avoid follower of her tweets. but i will tell you those comments caused hurt. and. >> and anti-semitic. >> i said that they were anti-semitic in the nature. i didn't call her antisemite. and i stood up and took responsibility and because they came out of congress. this shouldn't be news someone did this.

this should be run of the mill stuff. >> it's really responsible of you to do that. i appreciate that. >> thank you. >> you and i we're tight. >> yeah. >> this is the third anti-semitic row in as many months. there was a effort on the part of the democratic party to condemn them, isolate them individually. that effort was killed internally by the democratic caucus it became the all hate matters resolution essentially saying that everything matters so this is a dilution of the resolution. who killed that. >> talk about a bias question? >> it is a bias question. >> when congresswoman omar made the comments, the same day or day prior there was a very, very public threat made against her life. there is an incredible rise of islamaphobia in the country. i represent one of the largest muslim communities in america. >> do you really, on staten island. >> and south brooklyn.

>> south brooklyn. >> if you don't think that was of an op tune moment saying we object to anti-semitism. and but also islamaphobia. >> you think it was appropriate for the exactic caucus to withdraw the original resolution. >> you must talk to more than i do about withdrawing this or that. what i saw was a resolution that pronounced objection and opposition to acts of hate, particularly anti-semitism and islamaphobia. things hitting my district hard. yesterday i went back to the ft. hamilton base where i took the oath of office to join the military and swore in ten new soldiers one of the proudest moments of my life. and you look at these soldiers. it came from all over first generation, beautiful cultural mosaic in the room representing the future of america.

we have to protect that and honor that. okay. and that's what we're going to cope on doing. >> willie, i want to ask you about we came in playing the clip of the president talking about john mccain. just your impression of the president. >> first i'm not where near pennsylvania war hero. i'm no where near a hero. >> i'll say that for you. >> with that being said, there is a new breed of politics that has emerged. the president of the united states wakes up in the morning figuring out what he can tweet that will be disruptive and dominate time. we have certain members of the democratic party trying to do the same. i am not going to bite. okay. three things guaranteed in this world. death, taxes and donald trump will say some crazy stuff. i'm not honors those comments with an ounce of my attention or any further words. >> let me ask you what do people care about in the muslim part much staten island right now.

>> traffic with. opioid epidemic and the sea wall op on staten island to protect ourselves. these are the bread and butter issues people care about. and the bread and butter issues people have been ignoring. >> how is the economy on staten island. >> it's doing well right now. i think people are employed. but what we are seeing though is a massive afford ability crisis. their wages have stagnated property taxes going up. people on staten island pay higher property taxes than the mayor of the city of new york despite the fact that his home is worth double what theirs is because of the incredibly injust unequal property tax situation we have the highest rate of union in the country. and there is a war against unions. we have to put government become on the side of the working folks who have been ignored. >> talk to visitors people coming to manhattan never get on the fairy and go to staten

island. why should they do that and where should they go. >> they get on the fairy to take the free ride. i want them to see the forest avenue, the best bars and restaurants in new york city. particularly my guy jodi's best irish guy in america. >> i'll be there tonight. >> jodies. >> go to a ball game there on the water. a baseball game. >> i love it. congressman max rose great to have you on the show. >> good to be back here thanks. >> still ahead investigations ramping up into the grounded boeing 737 max jet liners, even the fbi is getting involved. nbc's tom costello joins us with the very rivet next on "morning joe." very rivet next on "mornin joe. - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this.

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it's now been several days since the second deadly crash of the boeing 737 max jet. the investigation into the troubled jet lynner are under way around the world. joining from us reagan national airport in washington.

nbc news correspondent tom costello who covers aviation. what more can you tell us. >> listen, we have multiple investigations as you mentioned. but here in the united states the fbi has now joined the grand jury investigation and inspector general investigation, all looking into the relationship between the fa. a and boeing and how they approved the 737 max 8. now in addition to that congress is expected to hold hearings. this morning the relationship between the faa and boeing is under intense skrutpy the fbi a federal grand jury and congress on the d.o.t. inspector general now all investigating. because it's understaffed and underfunded congress allowed the fa. a to delegate some of its inspection north to boeing itself. the southwest airlines pilot union flying more 737 max's than anier other airline has concerned. >> our pilots are aware of the investigation. we feel that with all the visibility with the governmental

investigations as well as the investigations on capitol hill that will lead to wherever it needs to lead. and we fully support those investigations. >> investigators believe a single sensor on the lion airplane that crashed in signature bondsia fed bat data to the onboard computer system suggesting it could stall. the computer forced the nose down as pilots fought to pull it up. investigators in ethiopia say that plane crash shows similar characteristics. but even after two fatal crashes in five months, u.s. airlines continue to fly the plane until last week. the airlines insist they were looking at hard data not profit issues. america says during 46,000 flight hours appear 1,000 flights it never experienced similar problems. united says the data showed the plane was safe and united pilots agreed. the ceo of southwest says, the only real factor we were thinking about was safety. >> i think right now both the

faa, boeing and possibly even the united states as a world leader in aviation have all taken a hit, credibilitiwise and reputationwise. >> boeing under scrutiny for the last week crash in ethiopia killing 157. and last october's crash in indonesia killing all of the 189 people on brody. attorney brian cabatek represents families siouxing. >> my clients are pleading with boeing and the united states government and the international aeronautic community not to put the plane out until we know it's 100% safe. we have news out of indonesia this morning thp authorities there say they have been working with the faa and boeing. they went to a simulator to recreate the doomed flight final moments and also concede that yes as we reported yesterday the pilots were so confused about what was going on with the plane they were pulling out the

pilot's manual as the plane was magi rating up and down trying to figure out a solution. >> you can see that when you read the cockpit conversations, the transcripts. nbc's tom costello. thank you. we should point occupant acting defense secretary patrick shanahan is being investigated by the inspector germ for tieing to boeing where he worked 31 years. coming up next we talk to one of the first senators to call on the faa to ground the boeing jets after most of the world has done so. senator richard blumenthal joins the table and his calls for the full mueller report to be made public. we'll be right back. - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this.

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want more from your entejust say teach me more. into your xfinice remote to discover all sorts of tips and tricks in x1. can i find my wifi password? just ask. [ ding ] show me my wifi password. hey now! [ ding ] you can even troubleshoot, learn new voice commands and much more. clean my daughter's room. [ ding ] oh, it won't do that. welp, someone should. just say "teach me more" into your voice remote and see how you can have an even better x1 experience. simple. easy. awesome. joining us now, senator blum enthat will of connecticut. the president's behavior is ramped up a little bit.

the tweets are coming faster, some of the behaviors getting more go trotesque, what are somf the options that could have been causing some stress? >> the mueller report, the question about what will be made public, all of the other scandals brewing in the administration not the least of which is the beginning of a active investigation of his acting secretary of defense and i'm mystified by why more of my republican colleagues are not coming out and really denouncing these attacks on senator mccain. >> this should be an easy one. >> let me ask you about the mueller report. do you have information to suggest that the release is imminent? >> nobody knows except robert mueller. nobody really has reliable information about when it's going to come out and even he may not know when it's going to

come out but one of these days all the predictions will be true and it will come out. >> yeah. >> if there is a report -- there's some speculation that he may now simply say i did my indictments, read my -- they are speaking indictments. read the warrants, that's my report. i hope and i think he has an obligation to do more, to actually do a report, putting together all the pieces of the mosaic about the credible case of obstruction of justice that is right now against president trump, about other crimes that clearly there's evidence he's committed. >> he's indicted dozens of russians. isn't it important for us to know what information he has on how the russians tried in the words of the department of homeland security secretary, how vladimir putin tried to undermine american democracy in

2016 and the still trying to undermine democracy now? >> even more so now than ever before according to the intelligence we're receiving, we need to understand what vladimir putin and the trump campaign may have done together but also the obstruction of justice that was done by the president of the united states in real time. there are indictments in this president's future. they're coming. whether they're after his presidency or during it, obviously the department of justice has said you cannot indict a sitting president. >> what law -- what law professor could not blow a hole through the logic of that inane guideline from the justice department that's 40 years old? and okay, so if we don't want it to be applied retroactivity, fine, but what about for all future presidents? we're now in a situation where this president could avoid indictment in some of the

charges by simply getting re-elected. and he could avoid an indictment of the first felony he may have committed regarding campaign finance laws by simply getting re-elected and the statute of limitations, that's one of the dumbest guidelines i've ever heard in my life. >> it's not even a guideline. it's an opinion issued by the office of legal counsel. >> does the supreme court have to give it any weight? >> the supreme court is under no obligation to give it any weight. it deserves no weight in my humble opinion, i'm not a law professor, i'm just a country lawyer. >> amen. we have to stick together. >> but your point i think is central that the special counsel really has an obligation to disclose all the things in evidence. we paid for that report. we deserve to see it. the american people deserve to see it and if the president's

really serious about transparency, he'll back my bill that requires a report and full disclosure of all the findings and evidence. a bipartisan bill. >> so you mentioned on twitter senator, that you've got some republican support for your bill to make the report public with redactions. john kennedy, will you reach the threshold? do you think you'll have the votes to force this report to become public? >> they're both on the judiciary committee. i he i'm hoping that we will build momentum. i think it is already on the increase. i'm hopeful, i never say optimistic about reaching that critical threshold because i think there's more and more realization that in fact the findings in evidence need to be made public. the american people overwhelmingly, four out of five americans want it to be made public including the vast majority of republicans.

>> what's the argument against that because again you're going to redact the pieces -- the attorney general will redact the pieces that should not be made public, protecting people whose names don't need to be in there. what's the argument against transparency? >> i hear no argument. i feelhear a false reliance on william barr to make it public. it's the old he's going to do it anyway. we have no reason to be confident he is going to disclose that report. he's refused in response to repeated questions from me and the confirmation hearing to make that commitment and so i think we need a law. and the president, if he really believes that the american people ought to see the report can back the bill. >> senator, thank you very much for being on this morning. great to see you. still ahead is the president directing the white house to ignore congress's request for documents? we will have new warnings from the chairman of the house

oversight committee, a packed 8:00 a.m. hour is just minutes away right here on "morning joe." ing joe. - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this. this and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself.

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magazines. we will ban all parts with the ability to convert semiautomatic we tweapons. >> it took one week to go from a mazda shootdsing to gun reform. one week. >> it's welcome to thursday, march 21st. >> we have historian author and soul of america himself author of "soul of america." jon meacham. >> the arc of the universe slopes downward. >> that's where it all starts. former justice department spokesman, now security analyst matt miller, national security reporter for nbc news, julia ainsley is with us and heidi

przbyla and jonathan lemire. >> we had yeah your pete on. >> oh, my gosh. >> and mika and i at least, i don't know about you, willie, got more texts, more calls, more e-mails just from those i haven't talked to since middle school. no, from everybody. this is why i'm not on facebook. right? no, i don't want to remember what we did in 8th grade. but we just got inundated with calls by people saying this guy is the real thing. we love mayor pete. >> i think there is a hunger for somebody who seems and feels and sounds and looks completely real and connected with what we're looking for. a connection to history, a connection to who we are, a connection to faith that is honest and upfront. this is who i am and this is

what i'm going to bring to the table and he does its. and he -- you know, we did rapid fire with him, tried lots of different angles and he was right there for everything. my phone had everything from my republican sister-in-law to, you know, an extremely far left best friend and everybody loved him and they kept texting me about him all day. >> got a lot of them. but he was so insightful and i guess the good news is that actually being insightful, being knowledgeable about the issues, and also having a good positive spirit, actually still counts for something in politics. >> you know, part of the appeal of donald trump in 2015 was that he didn't talk like a politician. pete just doesn't talk like a politician except he's versed on policy. he can talk about anything you asked him. we threw how many questions at him over the course of 45 minutes and whether or not you agreed with his answer they were

thoughtful answers. and i'll say again, in politics, performance matters. nobody knew who he was a month ago but he goes out every single night, he goes and does town halls and tv appearances and it adds up and makes a difference and he's somebody to be contended with. >> i wonder whether this sort of no nothing, the celebration of the no nothings, whether it's -- in britain where you have people pushing brexit saying, experts, really we've heard enough from experts or whether it's the united states where donald trump actually clearly is not prepared for any meeting he takes, his own staff members say so. i'm wondering whether -- i mean, politics is always about contrasts, and you want to have a stark contrast with the person you're running against and i'm just wondering whether this is a phase that we're going to get through in a few years or

whether we're doomed to elect a series of presidents who actually just bathe in their ignorance and people just shun experts. i mean, we're not brain surgeons. we don't let plumbers operate on our brains. why would we let a guy that doesn't read, doesn't understand, doesn't comprehend, doesn't want to comprehend issues run the most important country on the planet? >> partly because you know, it was a weird reaction to someone who did read and seemed president obama's opponents saw him as prelite. can you imagine a collection of more different people than george herbert walker bush to bill clinton. bill clinton to george w. bush. george w. bush to barack obama.

i think a lot of us didn't think that would be a starker contrast theron to donald trump. but i think the forces of nativisms and the kind of populism of i'm not going to talk like smart people is a -- it's seasonal. >> so you're saying after 12 years of "morning joe" we're going to -- >> it's over? >> it's over? our season is coming to an end? >> it's done. >> it's like the mash finale. barnicle is going to chop her out. it's going to be great and everybody's going to be left with three words. that was it? that was it? but you know, also elizabeth warren is doing the same thing. it's just that we know her policy, but she's a policy one. she talks about policy and kirsten gillibrand did it on this network the other night t.

we're just meeting him but he is so well versed on so many issues. he had some riff yesterday where he was explaining why politics is more like homer's odyssey than fin gan's wake. >> i do that and mika falls asleep. >> well, that's true. it's your delivery really. >> i was surprised by the number of republicans who reached out to me saying i'm going to support him because i'm looking for someone. >> in pop culture terms, this is a little bit like archie bunker. bunker is president so we're going to enjoy the presentation so it's going to depend on pennsylvania, ohio. >> it's just a moment in time. we've got a lot to get to. let's get to work. special counsel robert mueller is expected to make his final report to the justice department soon and yesterday, president trump made another lengthy effort to diskrecredit the form fbi director suggesting trump's

own victory in the 2016 election disqualifies an investigation. in january of 2017, the intelligence community assessed that vladimir putin and the russian government aspired to help president trump's chances in the 2016 election. and the fbi's then director james comey revealed an open investigation into trump's allies and the incident in which the president said he fired comey. the odj hires a special counsel to pick up the investigation. but yesterday president trump said he doesn't quote, get it. >> it's interesting that a man gets appointed by a deputy, he writes a report. you know, never figured that one out. a deputy, because of the fact that the attorney general didn't have the courage to do it

himself, a deputy that's appointed, appoints another man to write a report and now i have somebody writing a report that never got a vote. it's called the mueller report. so explain that, because my voters don't get it. and i don't get it. let it come out. let people see it. that's up to the attorney general but it's sort of interesting that a man out of the blue just writes a report. i know that he's conflicted, and i know that his best friend is comey, who's a bad cop. i had a nasty business transaction with him and other things the day before he was retained to become special counsel, i told him he wouldn't be working at the fbi. and then the following day they get him for this, i don't think so. >> along with his gruesome comments about john mccain, i mean, really, we didn't know it could get lower.

he's flailing. it appears he's just swinging out in the wind. >> well, i mean, i have -- >> is he stressed out? what is happening? >> he must have spent half a century watching people say things in washington, d.c. i'm going to say those are some of the dumbest words to ever tumble out of a politician's mouth that i've ever heard. he doesn't -- >> homer simpson. >> he doesn't get it. that somebody who's unelected could write a report. he doesn't get it, which means he doesn't understand how the judicial branch works. >> no, that can't -- >> he doesn't understand how the judicial branch works, matt, because the supreme court of the united states defines what the constitution of the united states is every single day by writing things. writing things despite the fact they don't have to have russians like buy bots or buy ads on

facebook to help them. >> maybe you could explain. >> to help them get their seats on the supreme court. that's what donald trump does. they don't have to worry about getting russians to help influence elections in wisconsin and michigan. and yet donald trump is baffled by the concept of unelected constitutional players in a democracy. >> and baffled by the idea of someone writing a report because he would never read the report. he had no business to dispute with mueller. mueller was not offered the fbi job and -- were was not told he would p get the fbi job and then in some angry vengeful person after wards and this idea that there's, you know, a deputy hires a man who writes a report, that's the way the justice system works. there are -- the point of our justice system is there are people who are not accountable

to the president who don't, you know, who aren't supposed to follow politics, who aren't supposed to follow the president's whims but who are supposed to look at the facts and the law and make decisions based on that and that's what he has been hostile to throughout this investigation. he has always been hostile to the idea that there isn't someone at the justice department who was loyal to him. it comes up there, because sessions recused himself he has just been flailing about since the beginning of this investigation because there wasn't anyone at doj who would do what he wanted to and just quash this thing from the get-go. >> still ahead on "morning joe," we'll continue this conversation including where don jr. fits into it all. but first here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning to you, joe. a gloomy thursday morning rush hour. no sunshine to be found. the heaviest of the rain is now over the top of richmond and for this afternoon, expect

significant delays all the way down into the d.c. area because of the heavy rain and gusty winds. we do have 20 million people under a flash flood watch right through maryland, eastern portions of pennsylvania and a little section here in new jersey. we will have some small areas and if we get any areas that pick up the two inches of rain we could see the small streams having some problems. we will have some delays. i don't think we'll get too many cancellations out of this but winds will pile up. maybe an hour or two delays. and then tonight it looks like a snow event for upstate new york. some of the ski areas could pick up a foot of snow. as far as the weekend forecast goes, there's the snowy conditions. a little chilly in the northeast and great lakes. a little bit of rain in the middle of the country and it warms up significantly for the east coast. t but as far as any horrific weather it doesn't look like it's going to be too bad

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simple. easy. awesome. stay connected with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. so i understand from your reporting despite the fact this report is going to reflect the fact that the president's national security advisor is now a convicted felon, that his campaign manager is now a convicted felon. that his long time attorney is now a convicted felon. that his assistant campaign manager is now a convicted felon, i could keep going. >> so many. >> i'll stop at those four but we could also say his long-term political advisor is on his way to becoming a convicted felon. despite this, despite having the most corrupt administration in the history of american politics, your reporting

suggests that donald trump is going to try to quote, weaponize the mueller report. >> let's be clear. no one knows exactly what's in the report. we anticipate it's going to be soon but its findings are not known to any of us. this is not a witch hunt as you just detailed. there are charges and indictments speak for themselves but there is a growing sense from the president and people close to him, yes, of course as you saw from those remarks yesterday. as frustrated as he that this special counsel probe exists to begin with and he feels it is a stain on his presidency, one he feels he does not deserve, there's been anticipation among americans that the mueller report would end with a dramatic image. something like the president being led from the oval office in handcuffs and that of course is not expected to actually happen. and there's a growing belief in trump's circle that there isn't going to be some smoking gun here. there isn't going to be a bomb shell, a new bomb shell development in the final report whenever it is issued and

whenever it is released. so therefore, he's going to try to hold it up as an example of government overreach, try to say hey look, i gave this to you for two years. i didn't interfere. i didn't fire him. and it didn't prove that i did it. and we of course can take exceptions to some of that as you just -- >> but again though, we've listed that four or five of his key players from the campaign are in jail or are going to jail, and also robert mueller at least a couple of months ago had made a tidy little profit on this investigation. >> right. he is going to play on the ideas of perception, not reality here, which is not the first time he's done this and it's probably not shocking to anyone listening or watching that he's going to try to claim victory when there isn't one. he's going to suggest it's overreach. it costs too much, it went on to too long and he's going to say you had this shot at me. there's not this ironclad proof

that i personally colluded so therefore, what are the democrats still doing on the house? he's going to suggest that according to our reporting, that he's going to take this, whether it's on twitter or a rally stage and say look, the mueller report was your chance to prove this. it didn't happen. if the democrats are still investigating me, that's proof that it's partisan. politics, not the facts. >> not the mueller investigation, but people in the senate, the house have -- many have said that don jr. committed perjury. robert mueller, if he did, certainly knows that to be the case. i've heard from the beginning that mueller is very conservative with a small c. that he's not going to swing for the fences. he's going to report, he's going to get the information out and then he's going to let the appropriate authorities do what they do with it. is indicting the son of a sitting president too bold of a move for robert mueller?

would he leave that to somebody else or is there any reason why he would hold back on indicting don jr., if in fact, he did commit perjury? >> no, if he committed a crime i think bob mueller would indict him and that is -- there are some pieces of this investigation that i think he could refer to other prosecutors. you can see like say the elliot scandal, working for the uae. he could refer that to another prosecution team. it's a lot to ask to indict the president's son. i think you would see mueller do that himself. one of the things that people are missing about the conclusion of this investigation, if he looks at don jr. or jared kushner, and he says they came right up to the line of committing a crime and didn't cross that line i don't think we should expect to see that in a public report. that was the mistake i think jim comey made. donald trump jr. is a private citizen. jared kushner works for the

government but is not an elected official. could be indicted. if he has evidence about them that doesn't quite rise to criminal charges he shouldn't be talking about it publicly. very different ball game when it comes to the president. >> coming up, beto o'rourke isn't the only democrat getting the cover treatment. there's also cortez gracing the new issue of ""time" magazine." we'll the talking to the author of that piece straight ahead on "morning joe." ad on "morning joe." - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this. this and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean.

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joe." the chairman of the house oversight committee is blasting the trump administration for refusing to hand over documents to his committee. >> chairman elijah cummings writes in part, i serve chairman of the oversight and reform committee. the primary investigative body in the house of representatives. i have sent 12 letters to the white house on a half dozen topics, some routine and some relating to our core national security interests. in response, the white house has

refused to hand over any documents or produce any witnesses for interviews. this, the chairman continues, reflect as decision at the highest levels to deny congressional oversight altogether. the president dictated this approach. cummings says the president's actions quote violate our constitution's fundamental principle of checks and balances adding if our committee must resort to issuing subpoenas, there should be no doubt about why. heidi przbyla, who is cooperating? >> the chairs are going to face a major decision here, mika, because to your point with cummings, no one. to the hush money payment example, they sent letters to the white house to try and get the ethics lawyers who fild out trump's financial disclosures and they were told basically no and as you saw, no one has provided documentation, let alone interviews and this is not unique to the oversight

committee. it's also going on with the judiciary committee. they have talked a lot of the information that they're getting, based on reporting as of last night only 50% of the individuals and entities on that list of 81 are actually cooperating in some form. so here's the challenge that they face. folks like nadler have said we're not going to issue a flood of subpoenas which can be ignored because that undermines our authority, so what do they do? well, like you saw, what they're trying to do is soften the ground here for some strategic p is subpoenas and to build the case for not only why should the public see the mueller report but that congress should be able to access the underlying documents of the mueller report and have access to those and they are harkening back to what happened in the last congress with an unprecedented release of

justice department reports and information for example, about carter page to the congress. and so they're realizing here their limits and we're seeing this in realtime already that so many of these individuals are simply taking a pass and challenging them to issue subpoenas which will really take a long time to play out. >> coming up on "morning joe," our next guest is writing about the only democrat she says can challenge donald trump's star power and it's not anyone running for president. we'll have that, plus, walter isaacson joins the conversation. "morning joe" back in a moment. - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this.

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i had a great faith in new york. primarily our purchase was in new york. cities in general weren't considered too hot and we purchased the old hotel and we've reconverted that now into about $110 million grand hyatt

hotel which is opening up next week in new york city. >> george conway just tweeted a link to that decades old interview between tom brokaw and donald trump. conway added his analysis quote, it's from 1980. trump was 33 and was articulate and coherent. unlike today. conway calls it a quote, remarkable contrast to today when all you get are these often incomprehensible wordings. >> the "today" show where he's talking lucidly about -- at the time it was japan that he was knocking around. that japan was going to take us over and whatever other country was going to take us over, but again, there is no doubt that what george conway is getting at is the case. he rambles and sort of speaks in word salad right now unlike earlier tapes. >> i'm not a doctor, i'm not going to make a diagnosis but

you believe your eyes. people do slow down a little when they get older, it's true. but i don't know about any medical condition. >> or stress can be impactful. >> professor of history walter isa isaacson and speaking of very stressed out, not, and charlotte alter, she writes this week's cover story entitled the phenom how alexandria ocasio cortez became america's lightning rod. we'll get to that in a second. >> let's talk about the president's obsession of john mccain. he attacks him in present tense as if he's still alive. last night an extraordinary moment as bob carrie was on television last night and said yeah, you're exactly right, john mccain is not your type of guy. john mccain is a man who reveres his country and honors this country and showed courage

throughout his entire life. he also said show us your x-raies, box-ra x-rai x-raix-ra x-rays. i lost a leg in vietnam, you can at least show me x-rays of your foot. >> it's amazing what goes through donald trump's head when he decides he's going to benefit from attacking somebody so different from him, someone brave by going to vietnam, such a national hero, and it's -- you know, you showed that tape from 30 years ago, and he said well, tru trump was more coheerrent. i know a lot of people involved in that hotel deal. they said it was amazing how he just kept lying about the amount of money. so even back then a tape like that is wrong. the 110 million is wrong. he's pulling numbers out of the

air. and i think that's -- that's the deepest thing about donald trump is that he doesn't tell the truth. >> and again, you follow it from when he was 33 to now when he's what, 72, 73, and he's lying about meeting george conway. never met the guy before. i don't know him. he continued lying about that even after conway showed the letter where trump is thanking conway for working with him at trump tower before he was president. so charlotte, the phenom, aoc. i'm not sure who is more distressed by aoc, conservatives or democrats who will always quietly grumble that she's going to pull the party too far left? >> yeah, i mean, that's definitely true. i say in the story that she's wonder woman to the left and the wicked witch to right, but she also represents a vision of the future of the democratic party.

she's 29 years old. she is a woman. she is hispanic and most importantly, she represents this fusion of movement politics and electoral politics that seems to be where the energy on the left is right now. and the question is really whether that can win elections. it's not at all clear that it necessarily can outside of these already very blue districts, but it's certainly where all the heat is right now and you know, speaking of tapes from the 1980s, i mean, alexandria ocasio cortez was born in 1989. this represents a whole new generation, a major generational shift in american politics and again, donald trump is the oldest first term president ever elected. he is solidly rooted in the 20th century and alexandria cortez is love her or haut her she is of the 21st century. she communicates in 21st century mediums and she's a new voice.

>> so let me get back to my larger point that it seems that conservatives and i've mocked conservatives for you know, saying oh, my god, you've got a piece of lint on your jacket and then they will tweet about that for five weeks. they are so desperate for her to be the face of the democratic party. the grumbling we've heard, the consternation we've heard has come from inside her own party, fearful that she's going to pull the party into some position that makes the democratic party unelectable even against donald trump next year. does she understand this? does she acknowledge it and is there any -- any recognition that she needs to make sure that what she does ultimately benefits candidates running against donald trump? >> so that's a great question. i think the answer is kind of. i mean, look, she's not speaker of the house. she's not running for president.

she's not actually officially a leader of the democratic party. >> she is on the cover of "time" magazine though. marco rubio was on the cover also as a future of the republican party. >> but she sees herself as an activist. so what she sees her job is is to push her fellow democrats to the left, to pull them in to supporting some of her policy positions and she's been really, really effective at doing that. the challenge is that a lot of these positions are actually broadly very, very popular, the green new deal is popular. medicare for all is very popular, but a lot of the progressive candidates -- >> the bumper stickers are popular. you get into the details, you actually don't get to keep your doctor, you are going to be taxed for a, b, c, d and suddenly those bumper stickers become nonstarters. >> and the challenge for her and her allies is that she's aligned with the justice democrats, they

ran 78 candidates in the 2018 midterms and only four won. so the question is are you putting points on the board? >> i'm laughing because you could replace the name, the young representative with everybody i was with in 1994 and they would drag -- we would say something stupid and democrats would drag us over and say this is a phase of the racist republican party. oh, my god. the more things change the more they stay the same. so the question is, there's always a reaction and a counter reaction. we've seen it, you know, i always talk about it, 2004, karl rove says a permanent republican majority. two years later barack obama brings about the eternal rise of that coalition, the democratic obama coalition two years later the tea party, two years later obama re-elected.

two years later reaction to obama's re-election with republicans winning. two years later trump trashes both parties. two years later the reaction to trump. so the question is one year from now, what's the reaction? are we reacting to trump? are we reacting to what happened in '18? where do we go? >> i think the reverend professor meacham talked about it earlier on the show. it was an idea about the cycles from progressivism to retrenchment and how we move back and forth between the guardrails. the problem is the guardrails have gotten further awe part in recent years especially with trump who seems to feel no guardrail as to what norms he would want to break. the question we face now is as we react to trump, what is it going to be a reaction to? is it going to be a reaction

towards far left wing policies? i would hope not. it could also be a a reaction to somebody younger, hipper, smarter. >> kinder. >> that gives you a beto o'rourke phenomenon or swub like aoc. i used to learn about what jonathan alter had written at news week that week and it's great to see charlotte alter at "time" magazine because we're talking about generational changes. i think that will be the most important thing that happens in this next election is that people in their 70s, this is why i'm not so sure about biden's candidacy. i think the reaction will be why you're starting to see a beto o'rourke phenomenon. people are going to want something fresh and new. >> so the right reverend meacham, yes, guardrails have gotten wider apart and yet, as i just said, every two years

america's bouncing off one guardrail on to the other. >> 1964, johnson gets the biggest landslide in america history. 1966, i think he loses what, 48 seats in the house and a guy named ronald reagan becomes governor of california and two years after that richard nixon's president. four years after this great -- the great society becomes the liberal order of the ages. we've talked about scottie on the front page of the new york times. the conservativism was dead for a generation. walter's right. the guardrails are farther apart, but that means we screech across the road to torture this metaphor. a quick question for charlotte. what are her leagucolleagues thg about her? >> some of them sort of react to her like why is the media paying to much attention to her. why is she on the cover of

"time" magazine. >> and why not me. >> yeah. there definitely are people, you know, getting yelled out at socialism at their town halls and that's -- they're a little grumbling about that. her allies have certainly -- the allies, the justice democrats and brand new congress, these progressive groups trying conservative democrats, people don't like that, but personally they really, really like her. they think she's a good colleague. she shows up to work. she does her homework. she takes notes. she's a nice person. she doesn't act like a jerk. >> done well in the hearings. >> she was here, i don't know if you remember this, the morning after the election. i don't think she'd even slept and she was shell shocked that she unseated a guy and she now in some ways is the face of the party and it's been said of her that in her approach, she has like glimpses of trump in her by that i mean she'll go after you

on twitter. she responds. punches down sometimes. is that a strategic exercise for her on social media? >> i think she knows how to use social media better than any other democrat. i would push back on the trump comparison because trump calls the media the enemy of the people and she definitely does not do that. >> no i meant she'll fight back against an egg on twitter. >> not only that, she basically told don jr. before she got in to the -- got into office it's not very smart to, you know, attack somebody that's going to have oversight over you. >> yeah. >> making that oversight again, seem splpoliticized, we underst we're in the age of trump but that's something that -- and they would say let's not threaten people before we're even in office. >> right. and you know before earlier jon was talking about sleszen jer

and one of the other things they said is the longer they're likely to stick around when they enter politics early. one of the things we have to remember when we're talking about aoc is her frame of reference is different from almost everybody else who's currently in politics. she was born the year of the cold war. the year the berlin wall fell which means she never had any of this red scare, any of that stuff. she and honestly frankly i never experienced american prosperity in our adult life. people our age graduated into the financial crisis and the recession. she graduated with $25,000 of student debt. she was paying $200 for an affordable -- $200 a month for an affordable care act plan. $300 a month in student debt. she had this financial reality that many people her age experienced and that is what is pulling young people to the left. >> thank you very much. we'll be reading your cover story on alexandria ocasio cortez in the new issue of

"time" magazine. thanks for coming on. >> it's time now for business before the bell with sara eisen. the federal reserve announced yesterday that it is halting interest rate increases for this year. how much of this move by fed chair powell stem from the public criticism by trump? >> according to the fed, none of it. they would say they're an independent institution, they don't get involved in politics. they tune out the politics, but i mean, you're right to point out that president trump is getting what he wants here but maybe not for the right reason. so the big news is the federal reserve says no more interest rate hikes projected for 2019. why? because they took down their economic road forecast. they're now expecting growth to be 2.1% for this year which is a downgrade from december which is a 2.3% growth rate. so they're no longer expecting

the kind of boom that we were expecting earlier and that's partly because the stimulus from the tax cuts are waning, global growth is slowing partly as a result of the tariffs and other spending and job growth, which is why the fed says no more. also anted to just point out, usually here at the new york stock exchange, there's a very strict dress code -- no jeans allowed on the floor. today there's a bit of a different rule. everybody's wearing jeans. i don't know if you can see. >> i did notice that. >> reporter: and that's because levi strauss is going public here today. and it's not your typical start-up ipo. this is a company that is more than 166 years old, claims to have invented the blue jean back in the 1870s, has already been public before about three decades ago, but now the family, the descendants of the founder are cashing in and will be going public. the question is, are jeans still as cool as they once were with the rise of athleisure and leggings and everything else? >> huh. well, i hope so, because i'm wearing them.

>> yes. >> cnbc's sara eisen, thank you very much. >> reporter: thank you. >> great to have you. we have much more ahead. and as we go to break, a snapshot of someone who is not paying attention to tweets about dead war heroes or the husband of a presidential aide, and that is bob mueller this morning, driving himself to the office. "morning joe" is back in a moment. office. "morngni joe" is back in a moment discover.

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♪ 54 past the hour. joining us now, managing editor, copy chief and vice president of random house, benjamin dreyer, author of "dreyer's english: an utterly correct guide to clarity and style," which has staked its claim on "the new york times" best-sellers list for the last seven weeks. and walter isaacson is still with us as well from tulane. >> benjamin, thank you for being with us. for some reason, siri keeps talking to me. >> your phone, nonstop. >> going to take that away. >> that's russians, my dad told me. >> actually in proper english. this is what i love about your book, what i love about english and also what john and walter and all of us think, there are rules, but there aren't really rules. so when you say there aren't really rules, great, there aren't rules, but there are rules. and it all goes to how you explain that the french, they

actually do have a supreme court -- >> yes. >> -- for their language. and,why you can read a 16th-century french novel and understand it much better than we can understand a 16th-century english novel. >> and it's wonderful. i mean, it's wonderful. i mean, i remember reading when i was in high school, reading mulair and saying i can understand this, even with my rudimentary french, where a lot of shakespeare is looking up and looking down at the footnotes and checking things out. but our language is so much more anarchic, and every time somebody crosses a border and drops 24 more words off for your use, it's like, well, okay, we have to figure out how we're going to work all those. >> fit that in, yeah. >> and of course, now you've got people inventing words once every 35 seconds, and you just keep incorporating them into the language and -- >> and you actually tell the reader, you make the rules. you have the power. >> exactly. >> you write the book, and if it's a great book and if it's adapted by everybody else, that

becomes the new rule. >> yeah. i mean, there are so many things that we get taught when we're in high school. you know, don't begin a sentence with and or but and you carry that around in your brain for decades until somebody says, actually, if you want to begin a sentence with the word and/or but, go ahead and begin the sentence with and or but, but i will always say that because i am always able to talk out of multiple sides of my own mouth. >> yeah, exactly. >> it may not be the most effective way to begin a sentence. perhaps there's a better connection between your two thoughts. perhaps you want to use a semicolon. >> right, which i let him know after reading the book, i threw all my years of writing -- i have neglected the semicolon. and for that, i feel guilt. >> you should. >> we've opened your eyes to the semicolon. >> semicolons are good things. what is the dreyer origin myth? what is the beginning of this journey? >> the beginning of this journey is my being sent by my mom to the local bakery to get, you

know, some rolls for dinner and maybe some black and white cookies. and there's this sign up over the counter that says "try our rugaloch, they're the "best." and i'm staring at those. and i'm and i'm staring at those quotation marks. >> right. >> so, a geek was born. >> oh, my gosh! you remember the moment. >> i do remember the moment! >> i love that. >> if aristotle had said these are the best -- what was the origin of the quote? >> amazing. >> or maybe they're not really the best. maybe we're trying to pass them off as the best. >> walter isaacson is with us. your question for benjamin. >> one of the things i love about benjamin is that he's allowed us to sometimes split infinitives, which i just did. >> whoa. >> and i was wondering, well, you know, that's -- i once started a story in "time" magazine with the word but. >> exactly. >> but that was a long time ago. and it was evan thomas, my

friend who was editing that week who took it out. so, i was going to ask, benjamin, when can we split infinitives and why were we not allowed to up until you gave us permission? >> and when can the word but be a sentence? because i tried to do that in your column the other second, remember? instead of that line, just "but, dot, dot, dot." >> or forever, dot, dot, dot. >> i did that, too, and you nixed it. >> yes, i did. >> i think that you can boldly split your infinitives whenever you feel like it. the way it was taught to me as to why it's such a sort of an odd and useless and pointless rule. >> yes. >> is that it was one of the many rules that were devised in the 19th century by extremely well-meaning, bossy grammarians who wanted to make everything in the english language very neat. and the comment was, yeah, this was somebody who probably would have preferred that we were all speaking latin. and he was trying to impose notions of structure that he was

picking up from his tongues onto a language that didn't need them. >> however -- >> the bottom line -- >> however, dot, dot, dot, as mika would edit -- >> out of time swrrks so we're out of time, but i want to tell everybody who's watching, you can also go online because we're going to be talking after this and we'll put it up today. but the bottom line is, respect the reader and understand, if it reads well out loud, you're probably on to something, right? >> yes. respect the reader and respect your own voice. >> okay, very good. >> yeah. >> the book is "dreyer's english: an utterly correct guide to clarity and style." read the footnotes. you'll be glad you did. thank you so much. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika, thanks, joe. hi, there. i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, distract and deflect. president trump doing his very best to change the topic, breaking out maps,