as far as the relationship with the palestinians, i don't see any prospect in the immediate future for any progress to be made. the netanyahu government has almost completely rejected any two-state solution. the two-state solution is one that the united states and the other nations in the world endorse and accept except for israel. and the united states is basically -- has basically relinquished its previous preeminence as a trusted mediator. >> former president jimmy carter discussing middle east peace policy on "morning joe." that was back in 2015. and the reason we begin this today -- at the age of 94 and 172 days, carter becomes the longest living president in u.s. history today. >> really quickly about jimmy carter, an extraordinary human being, a wonderful man. just a great contrast with,

unfortunately, what we're struggling through right now as a nation. here's somebody who was the only president in our lifetime to bring middle east peace. >> right. >> the president that opened, actually opened diplomatic relations to china 40 years ago as you, mika, and your family know so well. and also a man who championed human rights. championed human rights leading into the 1980s when that call not only from jimmy carter and later ronald reagan and the pope and margaret thatcher and others eventually led to the fall of the iron curtain. >> think about that, and then of course this president, president trump, just made a huge change in america's approach to the holy land. we will talking about that. >> that will actually take us further from -- >> that's right. good morning. >> closer to peace. >> this is just a friday, march 22nd.

along with joe, willie, and me we have historian, author of "the soul of america" and rogers proffers of the presidency at vanderbilt university, john meecham. a nbc news and msnbc contributor. author of "a world in disarray," richard haas with us. and former fbi special agent and msnbc contributor clint watts. we're going to get to the israel story in a moment. and secretary of state mike pompeo agreeing with reporters' suggestion that god may have sent president trump to earth to protect israel. also, the marines' top general warning that the pentagon, that president trump's decision to deploy troops to the southern border is posing a, quote, unacceptable risk to marine corps readiness and solvency. and the boeing 737 max planes involved in the deadly

crashes in ethiopia and indonesia did not include two safety features in the cockpit because boeing charged extra for them. >> willie geist, here's the deal, we're going to sell you billions of dollars worth of planes. but if you want to know how to keep the planes in the air, you need to pay us extra. >> good god. >> an amazing story. we'll dig into it, but that's effectively like they said. like getting the floor mats thrown in with a new car when you buy it. this was obviously a critical feature that was an option when it was sold to the airlines. now boeing making it standard feature on the planes. >> standard feature on how, again, to keep the plane flying. john meacham, quickly, let's go around quickly. a couple of things we mentioned, jimmy carter. obviously jimmy carter defeated in 1980. there was a iranian hostage crisis, oil shocks, many things beyond his control.

i suggest looking back historically you actually had 20, 30 years of excesses that the democratic party this -- party had brought. overreaches that fell on the shoulders of jimmy carter in that 1980 election. again, he makes history today just like 40 years ago. talk about a year. camp david and then the opening of china. two events that have impacted our world in remarkable ways. i would say for the better over the past 40 years. >> and historically, he's an emblem of one of the great american myths. i say myth meaning story that has importance which is that a farmer from georgia can become president of the united states. he was -- went to annapolis, engineer, obviously, incredibly bright, man of great faith. still teaches i think sunday

school. i went to one of his sunday school classes not long ago. he didn't mention that trump had been, by the way, sent from heaven to earth. maybe he needs to check his -- >> that didn't come up? weird. >> we can check the natophot fo check the footnotes on that. he came in at a moment of enormous loss of confidence in the system. president ford had done a marvelous job coming in at the end of hamlet. he'd come in at the end of watergate and pulled things back together. very close race in 1976. then did something -- i happened to read the other day because it's the kind of thing that i do to pass the time, i reread his "crisis of confidence" speech in 1979. it's known as "the malaise speech." >> right. >> it's s aep's an interesting . if people have had caricatured

view should take a look at it. he was talking about national will, talking about our devotion to each other, to the national experiment. and we're seeing in a lot of division of the moment, we're seeing a manifestation of the forces that he bluntly worried about. >> yep. and was, of course, right. and richard haas, quickly, we're going to get into the story. but jimmy carter's efforts, dr. brzezinski's efforts, some of the other efforts to bring peace to the middle east, obviously they have not been replicated over the past 40 years. and yesterday donald trump could not leave well enough alone because no one was contesting the fact that israel was, in fact, occupying the golan heights. it was on the back burner. but donald trump in effect kicked the hornets nest a couple of weeks before netanyahu's election. and now has made middle east

peace an even more distant dream. >> you're exactly right. that's the point that so many people seem to miss is that this doesn't change the reality. no one was pressing israel to give up the golan heights, and no one ever will or would until the emergence of the syrian government that was willing to make peace with israel and respect israeli security. needless to say that is in the distant future if then. so all this does -- you know, i woke up today to vladimir putin criticizing the united states for getting out of the u.n. resolution that talks about the inadmissibility of acquiring career to by force -- acquiring territory by force. look at this guy, what he did in crimea, and he is citing what the united states is supporting. this is the most basic rule of international relations to the extent there is one. it's what the united states cited when saddam hussein invaded and took kuwait, what we cited after crimea. here it is, the united states

doing it. it doesn't do anything to improve israeli security. >> absolutely nothing. and all it does, this is not going to be a surprise, does a great favor, as rich just said, to vladimir putin who now has justification for the crimea invasion. >> so it's perfect context of this moment in history. now we get to what's happen happening today, the anticipation growing, the delivery of the mueller report could be imminent. special counsel watchers seem to be looking for clues everywhere from the tmz-style photo of bob mueller arriving to work yesterday morning, to the attorney general who was spotted arriving at the white house yesterday for an unrelated event. former fbi director james comey whose firing by the president led to mueller's appointment is also explaining what he wants from the special counsel report. in an op-ed for "the new york times" he writes in part this,

"even though i believe mr. trump is morally unfit to be president of the united states, i'm not rooting for mr. mueller to demonstrate that he's a criminal. i'm also not rooting for mr. mueller to clear the president. i'm not rooting for anything at all except that the special counsel be permitted to finish his work." comey also calls for, quote, maximum transparency about the special counsel's work writing, quote, i don't know all the considerations that will go into deciding precisely what to say about the completion of that work, and when to say it. but because the department of justice is guided first and always by the public interest, it should provide details about finished investigations when the public needs to know them as it traditionally has. former fbi director also writes that he hopes congress does not remove the president from office, arguing that a significant portion of the country would see that as a coup

leading to more division. >> enough of mr. comey -- >> the bigger thing, joe, is what happens when it is delivered. that's going to be huge, breaking news. of course, the process, it doesn't go to the public. it may not, but there are ways for the public to see it. couldn't for example the oversight committee subpoena robert mueller at some point? >> they could. here's the thing -- everybody is talking about the mueller report's imminent release. it's something that we've been hearing about now for several months. people have been talking about the investigation wrapping up for years. once fall false alarm after another. what i don't understand is why would the report come out today? why would it come out today when robert mueller asked the court for six more weeks to try to sort out the gates plea deal? why would the report come out

now when you still have roger stone in the position where they need to get information from him, and they need to do their best to try to flip him? there's still work to be done. that's why some noon deadline makes no sense. >> there are loose ends to be tied up. a tribute to robert mueller that we have no idea when this comes out. the tribute to the operations he's running and the professional of his team that there have been false alarms, guesses. no one knows. no one's in the room that's effectively been a black box now for two years. what do you think about the transparency question? we had senator richard blumenthal of connecticut on yesterday. he's sponsoring legislation that would force the mueller report to be public with redactions where necessary. do you believe full transparency is the way to go here? >> based on the past two years, i think full transparency oh anything leads to conspiracy on

both sides. they parse the fact to push the political agenda. there's no way we cannot disclose the essential nuggets of what this investigation returned. we should do that for several reasons. one, we don't ever want to go through this again. we lost sight of why we started this in the beginning. do we or do we not want influence from a foreign power in elections, do we or do we not want foreign money flowing into the political candidates, do we or do we not want obstruction of justice -- we should get more than one team one or one team -- one team won or one team didn't win. this started with russian influence in the election. we don't know the full scope. all of the money discussion vs. been behind closed doors. i have no idea what that is. i research this all the time.

there's a critical national security called wikileaks. we've heard of possible sealed indictments against wikileaks. this is something that's been floating in national security for years that if we were to go after wikileaks it could lead to massive information dumps to seekers around the world. this will probably never come out, or they'll have to make the decision. the key thing like joe was talking, but there's not a moment when the report hits. a.g. barr, former director mueller, know how it works. the moment the report lands in barr's inbox or gets delivered to his desk, the clock starts. they'll be prepared for it. >> to joe's point, though, when you look at the work to be done around roger stone or rick grates, doesn't it look like bob mueller still has work ahead of him? >> i think he does, but i've always believed he has a safety valve to spin off the investigations into other districts. that way if the special counsel gets shut down he can make sure it lives on through tentacles

that are almost impossible to stop. i imagine the investigations have already begun. that's what you see, the downsides in the staff and special counsel office. they probably splintered out. i imagine there will be a sell at the special counsel's office for a year or more that will have to answer questions not only to those districts now congress and others. >> one thing we know is that a lot of people have made up their minds already one way or another whether the trump administration colluded. they will project those feelings on to that report in whatever form it comes out in whenever it does. >> again, we are seeing darkly now, looking through a glass, not being able to tell what is going on in the office. we may get a report today on russian interference. maybe that's followed later by a report on obstruction. maybe later that's followed by a report on collusion. again, the idea that this all ends today -- >> no.

>> makes little sense given the strings that need to be tied up. mika, it's interesting, the entire campaign in 2016 had a shadow over it. that was hillary clinton sending documents and receiving documents from foreign powers and entities, people inside and outside of government as secretary of state. not having an archive system, a system to archive these documents as is required by regulation and law. >> right. >> not having a system in place so as they came in people could decide whether this is something that could be discarded or not. it is beyond negligent -- >> yeah -- >> beyond negligent. we find out again that jared kushner used private accounts

including an minneapolapp on hi for official business. >> this is what we know so far, and his attorney has even brought it forward. house oversight committee chairman elijah cummings says he was told in a meeting with kushner's attorney that jared kushner in addition to using private e-mail had also been using whatsapp as part of his official duties to communicate with foreign leaders. kushner's use of the encrypted messaging app to communicate with the saudi crown prince had been reported. now it appears to have been more widespread. kushner's attorney disputes cummings' could saying he told the lawmaker that his client uses the app to talk to, quote, some people, but did not specify who they were. >> let's stop -- >> it's -- >> stop right there. we've heard, willie, that kushner took screenshots of the

communications -- >> think about his security clearance issues that he has. >> right. this it a good day who has problems get -- a guy who has problems getting security clearance. >> he has no experience. >> because he and his family business have so much money and there's a concern that he could be shook down for funding of projects. but let's go back to hillary clinton. what did we talk about, what did "the new york times" and "washington post" talk about for a year and a half during the campaign? the fact that hillary clinton wouldn't step up and explain how she communicated as secretary of state with foreign leaders using this home-brewed server. the gig question was, was there malice of forethought, was she doing it specifically to hide communications from americans to get around the regulations, to get around the laws, that the fbi were investigating?

we don't have those questions here. jared kushner knew what had happened to hillary clinton. there was clearly malice of forethought. he was clearly intentionally hiding communications between himself and the murderer that now runs saudi arabia. the murderer and torturer who killed the "washington post" journalist. he's on whatsapp. my question is simple and maybe clint can help here, but if the fbi launched an investigation against hillary clinton, why in the hell would they not be launching an investigation in this case against jared kushner for doing something far worse? >> it's astounding that the central theme of the 2016 presidential campaign was hillary clinton and her emails coming from the trump administration side. what were the "lock her up" chants about? they were related to this, about her secrecy of having a server

in her home. it was this except you have somebody in the white house, clint watts, using an app that you and probably have our phones talking not just to the crown prince of saudi arabia but abby lester holt according to eallegiant -- but abby lester holt according to an app that's encrypted but not terribly difficult to break according to people in the world. >> in the digital warfare, anyone knows you can hire companies to crack into any of these end points and go through any of the communication. i really would like everyone to read the story. don't worry about government surveillance, worry about corporate guys for hire that are hired by the companies. what's the country named in there? the uae. who have we heard jared kushner with, uae, qatar, different

countries. it's totally irresponsible. i think you work in the intelligence agencies of the fbi, if you're a diplomat, ask why does erdogan or mbs, putin, kim jong-un, all know more about what the white house is saying than i do. we are blinded to the communications, but we have people with iphones just firing off messages. it's completely irresponsible. this cannot be secured by sending through whatsapp, a facebook company, that came out yesterday -- maybe we left everyone's passwords out on the internet. this is ridiculous. it breaks security protocols and it's vulnerable. foreign dictators, authoritarians, know more about the communications in the white house than we do in our own country. >> richard haas, again, the shocking thing is we talked about this for a year and a half with hillary clinton during the

campaign, how this was a breach of protocol, how it stopped the archival process, how it was terrible that cheryl mills would be able to go through the emails. hillary clinton's personal lawyer, to decide what we were allowed to see and what we were not allowed to see without any review process. here's jared kushner taking to even a more base level. i will have private texts and communications with the crown prince of saudi arabia who murders -- who murders "washington post" journalist, and then i will decide whether i take a picture of it or whether i delete it. my god. if the fbi investigated hillary clinton for a year and a half, i can't believe they already don't have an open file on jared kushner. >> it's good there are no double standards in washington, joe. you can rest assured. it was all things being equal a pretty bad day for mr. kushner yesterday. for years he's been preparing

his initiative on the middle east. and his father-in-law undermined whatever chances there were for it yesterday by the unilateral move. whatever he's doing with the saudis or anybodied on whatsapp, the saudi medium of choice for communications, again, it's not a good day for film. the idea that the united states can now launch a middle east peace plan and gain momentum. i think it's possible the government formed would be 100% unwilling to countenance any peace plan that the united states might put forward at this moment. >> all right. we have so much to get to. still ahead on "morning joe," the marines' top general warning the pentagon about a, quote, unacceptable risk to his troops. the reason -- the president's order to deploy troops to the border while siphoning off

funding and planning from other key regions around the world. the president is still talking about john mccain. now blaming the media for bringing it up even though he tweeted about it and brought it up at a speech. we'll show you what he's saying. first, we'll get to bill karins with a check of the forecast. bill? >> really nasty friday morning. good morning, everyone. the storm moving through the northeast has high winds with it, it had a lot of rain overnight. areas from d.c. to new york. now a snowstorm in upstate new york and vermont. it was over the top in new york city. raining heavily in philadelphia. i-95 will have slow spots. we'll have airport delays, hopefully not too many cancelations. the worst of it will be from boston to albany, and then this afternoon, the winds will howl from philadelphia to new york city, all the way to d.c. be prepared for that. and again, it's mostly during the day today. tomorrow will be a lot better. here's the snowfall map. this is six to nine inches in many areas of northern new england. even central new york between

syracuse and albany, the thruway could get up to six inches of snow. as we look at the forecast, that's the worst of it. middle of the country's pretty nice. new storm coming into northern california. the east coast clears out. still chilly on saturday. sunday's the best day. the only concern i have over the weekend, remember all the horrific flooding? it's still ongoing in areas of the midwest. we'll have more rain this weekend. maybe a half inch to about an inch. it shouldn't make it too much worse. it will make it that much slower for the river levels to come on down. again, as i said, the flooding situations will be a story that will go for months into the spring. new york city, heavy rain overnight, gusty winds this afternoon. ugly friday. day. ♪ - [woman] with shark's duo clean, i don't just clean, i deep clean carpets and floors, so i got this. yep, this too,

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trashing senator john mccain. he's dead, why are you doing this? >> it's a very small portion of nightmare -- of my time. three days ago it came out that his main person gave to the fbi the fake news dossier. it was a fake, a fraud paid by hillary clinton and the democrats. they gave it to john mccain who gave it to the fbi for evil purposes. that's not good. the other thing, he voted against repeal and replace. >> mr. president, you said you can punch back but he's dead. >> i don't talk about it. people ask the question -- i didn't bring it up, you brought it up. >> you talked about it this week. >> you asked me the question. when i went yesterday to the scrum they asked me the question. when they asked me the question, i answered the question. you people bring it up. i don't bring it up. >> that makes me think the dossier's true. >> it makes me think that he is losing his mind. if he weren't losing his mind -- stay with me in you're a trump supporter --

>> that will be hard -- s>> did the president forget tht he tweeted about it on his own this past weekend? did the president forget that he was talking to a pro-military defense in ohio? my dear fans who are trump supporters, either the president's losing his mind and can't remember what he said earlier this week, or he's a liar. i would not jump to either conclusion myself right now. i'm just your faithful and humble servant on the show. there is no choice. he is either a liar or he's losing his mind. you pick the box. >> no, i think -- >> you know what, i just gave you the facts. you decide. >> i think there's a whole stress-induced distraction things going here. it brings up a real question, and we're going to share the sound byte of him bringing it up

at a speechment i was approached yesterday by a smart, attractive woman who works and was traveling for work. she was just absolutely committed to loving trump. and she candidate kind of attacking me in -- and she kept kind of attacking me in a reunified and threatening way. the for events is something we have to look at. i don't understand someone who could love someone who could do this to john mccain. >> first of all, let me say that without mentioning who -- where we saw this person, i think that person was inspired a bit -- >> a large group -- >> by what that person had been imbibing over the past couple of hours. that's all i'm going to say. >> still -- >> it happens. the president blames the media, but it's plain to see again that either he forgot about or he is lying about the fact that he has been attacking a dead man without any prompting this past week.

starting with a tweet on saturday about the stains on the late senator's record. and no one brought it up to him when he segued to criticize john mccain for five, count 'em five -- and if i had forgotten that i attacked john mccain for five minutes two days ago, i'm going to a doctor. doc, hey, i just said yesterday that i never brought it up myself, that i only responded -- i mean, either that or i just have to quietly admit if i'm donald trump that i'm lying to myself and 300 million people. here's donald trump -- >> for those with eyes -- >> talking for five minutes at an economic speech in a tank factory wednesday in ohio. >> i endorsed him at his request. and i gave him the kind of funeral that he wanted which as president i had to approve.

i don't care about this, i didn't get thank you, that's okay. we sent him on the way. but i wasn't a fan of john mccain's. >> it gets so tiresome. yes, the president of the united states is also lying or is ignorant, my fellow trump supporters, americans who are trump supporters, not fellow. the national cathedral -- saying donald trump's lying. heap didn't approve mccain's funeral services. in a statement to nbc news, the cathedral says, "all funerals and memorial services at the cathedral are organized by the family of the deceased." only a state funeral for a former president involves consultation with governing officials -- no funeral, donald. hey, donald? hey, donald, that's right, i'm talking to you, donald, i'm talking to you --

>> he doesn't watch. >> every day. it's like -- it's like what the little boy says to his mother at the end of the "sixth sense," every day. every day. mika wouldn't understand the reference because she didn't see the "sixth sense." >> mika -- >> i saw the "godfathers." >> this weekend. >> yes, this weekend. >> what a movie. it goes on. >> not watching it. >> no funeral at the cathedral, none requires the approval of the president. you getting it, donald, or any other government official. that said, john meacham, even though donald trump had nothing to do with it being at the national cathedral, cindy mccain still sent out rick davis to thank mellow lark lemon --

meadow lark lemon, santa claus, bob hope -- no. to thank -- there are so many people going, huh? >> under 50. >> kurt flood, no! irving r. levine? no! >> irving r. levine, nbc news, washington. >> to thank donald trump. the family asked for trump to be thanked by rick davis. literally everything he has said about the funeral is a lie. that's all i got. >> you can go now. >> by the way, i'm on to you. i'm on to you. let's do a split with willie. can you put willie up? you know how in "top gun" maverick are talking, they have this, hey, don't fly by the tower, don't buzz the tourer.

they're cool. -- the tower. they're cool. negative ghost rider. they buzz the tower. macho thing to do. you and meacham, meacham comes up in the flight suit, right, before the show, and what does he say to you, maverick, what's he going to do in the first block to prove hoe cool he is? >> i heard about this. he's the look behind the curtain. >> true. >> john meacham made a reference to forten brass from hamlet, and everyone in the make-up room including myself glazed over because we didn't understand the context of what he was saying. as we walked out he said "i'm going to get the reference" in the show. at 6:05, john meacham dropped it on the table and made it in the context of the carter speech -- >> that's what upsets it the most. it shed light for the life of the nation, yeah. >> no. no, what upsets willie the most is what a dark dork he has to

sit next to -- >> i'm looking at through dorks. >> hey. >> there are three pretty dorks all in a row. >> you see the drama of willie's life is not having gotten into swanee back into the '90s and going to vanderbilt. >> here we go. here we go. >> he's been trying to overcompensate. >> all right, guys -- >> speaking of john mccain -- >> the conversation -- >> john mccain -- >> speaking of overcompensation, let's talk about john mccain. everything the president has said about john mccain, his attacks on john mccain and the funeral itself all lies. all on videotape, all on statements, all lies. >> sure. here's what -- i agree, of course. what i think this fits into and it's a fun category to play with, is the lesser holt category where trump actually cops to everything. right? he copped to obstruction of justice. >> that's right -- >> to lester holt, right? he said to, was it maria, "i'm doing this because he gave the

dossier to the fbi." we don't have to wonder anymore about what this is, we can talk about the bone spurs in vietnam. that's part of the ethos. but i promise if you somebody else had done this and had died and, you know, had been lionized and -- remember, the mccain funeral with all honor to senator mccain, the mccain funeral was one of the great acts of ceremonial trolling. >> it really was. >> in american history. it was ecclesiastical trolling. >> it was wonderful. >> not a huge category. and didn't say i was going to say that, willie. i think -- i think we just now know. if he follows the headline, did he watch the funeral, did he watch any of it, does he know -- yes. >> then he saw meghan mccain, powerful eulogy. he understands that that was a moment where the whole -- the whole world that he both

resents, hates, and longs for their approval which is the permanent culture of the acela corridor, right, was either at the cathedral or nodding along at the cathedral. and he's sitting there thinking and this s.o.b. kicked this thing to the fbi. so we now don't have to wonder. again, this is like having, you know, x-ray glasses into richard nixon. if nixon put the tapes out in realtime, i don't think we have to think that hard about it. to figure out what to do about it. i think he basically makes the problem itself fairly straightforward. >> makes it very simple. willie, the thing is in this case it's like when somebody that he really hates puts out a book. or when he talks about our show. the next day everybody goes, wow, i want to watch that show. and the numbers explode. he says we're having the worst year ever, we're having the best year ever.

we had the best year ever for the past several years. we want to thank donald trump for attacking us because after he attacks us, more people watch. >> and then i get more people to follow devin nunez's cow. >> way over 5,000. also he attacks people who put out books, book sales. in this case he's attacking a war hero and a public servant. and has meghan mccain said and as anybody would tell him that the staff is trying to tell him, you're not hurting john mccain here, donnie. you're hurting yourself. it's -- mind-boggling that he doesn't understand that. >> wow. >> grand sweep of history and even in polling, he's hurting himself. >> in the case of mccain, even his own supporters are telling him that lindsey graham said that finally, said i don't think this helps the president whatsoever. we should add to the honor roll of republicans dan crenshaw,

congressman crenshaw of texas, who came out clearly and said "knock it off, mr. president, stop going after john mccain." there's the humanity of it, that if your child ever attacked someone who had passed away you would put them in their road rage without dinner for the -- in their room without dinner for the night. and there are the facts of it, that john mccain gave that information, the dossier, after the election. president trump claims he did it before the election to put hillary clinton in office. he's got his facts wrong. they're easily discovered facts. they're facts in some cases that happened yesterday. and we can play on the show. but donald trump plows ahead with his attacks on a dead war hero. >> yeah. so i -- everything you're saying makes sense. all of you except i don't think he's thinking about it this much. i think he does what he needs to do even if it's putrid to deflect because right now he's so squeezed from finding out that cohen was being investigated long before the raid, jared now being squeezed

for the way he communicates with world leaders, the mueller report coming. whether or not the a.g. is going to stand by him. my god, the list goes on, all the witches, all the people who still might flip -- >> by the way -- >> i think this would cause somebody to be desperately flailing, and that's what i think all this mccain stuff is. >> so far in the mueller investigation and the so-called witch hunt -- >> so many -- >> my trumpian friends, 200 federal charges. >> so many. >> 200 federal charges of witches. crimes committed by witches. >> imagine -- >> while we're talking about federal crimes, we've got to go to break. alex, we've got to go to break. forgive me for one more question, alex, i know not what i do. but clint, how in the world does

the fbi not have an investigation open today, open this very morning -- >> on mr. whatsapp. >> on a guy who donald trump told me during -- during transition and has told so many other people would be the de facto secretary of state. a man making communications with a world leader who murdered a "washington post" journalist after torturing him and then sawed him up to bits. how does the fbi not start that investigation today given what they did with hillary clinton for a year and a half? >> yeah. well it just goes to reinforce those things we were hearing about -- concerns from the agencies about jared kushner's security clearance, if you remember, and we don't know that they don't. you know, maybe they are looking into these things. but i think ultimately those investigations tend to originate

in congress. it would be one of the intelligence committees that would push that. and it's interesting just six, maybe even seven months ago you somehow bipartisan support to look into these things. you know, i think it was maybe jason chavez or one -- some of the republicans were talking about, hey, we need to set standards around this. we can't go and say "lock her up" and then not follow this up when somebody is doing something very similar fundamental there isn't one started, i wouldn't be surprised if one does get started, especially if it keeps pushing from the hill. >> all right. clint watts, thank you so much. still ahead, in 2016, donald trump lost the popular vote -- >> got wiped out. >> but won the electoral college. >> almost three million votes he lost by. >> senior republicans who are expecting a repeat in 2020. plus, new fund-raising concerns for joe biden. some top democratic donors might not be there for him if he decides to make a white house bid. those new pieces of reporting ahead. there's a lot going on. t going n

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♪ as joe biden continues to weigh when he will actually jump into the crowded 2020 field, cnbc reports that several top democratic donors have told the former vice president that they will not fund-raise for him at the start of his campaign over concerns over whether or not he can win the primary. biden has reached out to the party's top donors for their support after he grewed that he would not -- grew concerned that he would not be able to compete with former texas congressman beto o'rourke. and for months senator bernie sanders, who each raised millions within the first 24 hours of their announcements. meanwhile, the "associated press" reports that according to

several sources that have spoken to biden, the 76-year-old is concerned whether his age may be the biggest hurdle in a potential 2020 run. he's 78, i believe. past and current he is 78, i believe. past advisers have tried to alleviate concerns about his age including teaming up with beto o'rourke or really young pete buttigieg. >> love pete. >> senior adviser to hillary clinton, felipe rinas and david drucker, new reporting out sxwie entitled "republicans resigned to trump being 2020.

lar vote but confident about electoral college." he raises money, captures media attention. but why does someone like mayor pete take so long to break from -- definitely had a breakthrough moment on our show, has one every time he comes on. i would be looking if i were a donor or somebody in the democratic party who could make things move along, i would be looking at him. >> i think a lot of people are. i think one big advantage that beto o'rourke had, he a year head start. he was running against ted cruz. >> right. so it's timing. >> in one of the less contested senate races and was getting a tremendous amount of national attention for it. mayor pete buttigieg. i'm going to try to get that right maybe by the time he's sworn in. he is getting great buzz. the more people see him, whether it's on your show, town halls or

late-night tv, they are really wowed by him. it's the way it's supposed to work. people are getting a chance to see him and people really like him. >> it's just timing, i guess? >> i think so. bernie sanders had a three-year head start and beto had a one-year head start. >> kimberly, joe biden is concerned about his age. he would be 78 when he, i guess, started the presidency, when he began it, which seems incredible to say. even before his first midterm test, he would be in his 80s. it is hard to imagine how that squares up with where the democratic party is today. and running against a president who is the oldest person ever sworn in. so i can understand why joe biden is looking that the as his biggest hurdle. what insights can you give us on which direction he's going? >> yeah.

i mean, he clearly -- look, it seems clear from all indications that joe biden really wants to run. he's just trying to find the best way to enter the race. and he's running into a lot of headwinds on a lot of different fronts, including this issue about his age. right now, the democratic party -- we have been talking for more than a year about all of the energy in the democratic party. it's on -- it's in the progressive part of the party. it's fueled by young people. and so to have a potential octagenarian in the white house doesn't seem to jive with that. his team is floating these balloons about running mates, maybe beto o'rourke or stacy abrams who they, themselves may have their own ambition to run for the presidency and at least give it a shot themselves instead of hitching their campaigns on to joe biden's. so, it just shows the difficulty right now, somebody from four years ago, what a big difference

four years makes. if joe biden had run four years ago, it would be a different calculation than it is today. >> felipe, you have been there, obviously, up close in a presidential campaign. what's your thought on the stacy abrams plan? a good idea, a bad idea for joe biden? >> let me separate out the stacy abrams name to that. i don't think it's a good idea. but not as a reflection on her. she's great. she should probably think about running, as much as anything else. i don't like the idea of someone who is running for president, which is essentially a job interview or going on a date saying, you know, i'm not sure that i can do the job alone. can you imagine if you were interviewing someone and they said hey, i brought my pal with me in case i can't do the job. it feels like a stunt, feels desperate. if he feels physically and otherwise ready to run and to

serve he should do that on his own and not rely on any kind of gimmick that will also fail. it's practically odd. is everyone going to pick a vp? is everyone going to pick a cabinet? we're interviewing one person for a job. we're going on a date with one person. don't bring a friend. >> david drucker, i'm reading your piece in "the examiner," "republicans resign to trump losing 2020 popular vote but winning electoral college." >> in two years of the trump administration i've never seen republicans more confident about the president's political prospects than i've seen today. a lot of that is because of their view of the democratic field of presidential contenders and they think that a candidate field where they're rushing to

the progressive left is going to help absolve the president of his myriad challenges with which we discuss on a daily basis and are very real. by the same token, they don't seem to have any illusion that the president has ton anything to expand his voting base or will do anything to expand his voting base. one republican strategist tells me he believes that the president governs deliberately with the strategy to specifically reach out to his base, where you have so many liberals living in california, so many conservatives grouped in other places and so they don't really see an avenue for winning the popular vote, but they feel as though the electoral college, in fact, may give the president a few more paths to victory than his very narrow path three years ago. >> you know, david, you look at the map and i'm just going to say it right now. i think it will be very hard for the president to win iowa, as he

did before. he almost won minnesota. i don't think that's going to happen. don't think he's going to win wisconsin. don't think he's going to win michigan, don't think he's going to win virginia. yet if the president wins pennsylvania, north carolina and florida, he's at 273 electoral votes. >> wrep. >> he can lose the upper midwest, other than ohio, and still be in for four more years if he wins ohio and florida. >> right. so it's really interesting this time around. on one hand i think the president will face challenges in the sun belt. i don't think they'll take texas for granted completely and they certainly won't take georgia for granted as we saw in developments. and i think republicans are very concerned about that. on the other hand you saw them hold the governorship and senate seat in florida in a very challenging mid term environment. >> the most challenging mid term environment. they won the two huge races here. >> something you might know a little bit about in florida.

>> yeah. >> and then, of course, ohio is looking increasingly comfortable for republicans. so, in a sense, you're looking at challenges across the midwest and wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan when you look at what happened with governor's races and senate races. a lot of opportunity for democrats. i think the president will be playing a lot of defense. it's a slightly different map than what we are used to looking at. for republicans, it comes down to the right voters in the right places and that's why they're confident. on the other hand, you're looking, for the first time in american history, potentially, of two consecutive elections where the winner of the presidency did not win the popular vote. and i'm wonder whag impact that might have on the country going forward. >> all right. kimberly atkins, phillipe reinas and david drucker, thank you.

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because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. balanceus.org i have a man, an attorney general, who nobody can believe, recused himself, and i have a man who i don't know at all, he just appoints a man, a deputy appoints a man to write a report on me, to make a determination on my presidency? people will not stand for it. with all of it being said, for two years we've gone through this nonsense. there's no collusion with russia. you know that. there's no collusion. that was a hoax.

but he obstructed in fighting against the hoax. >> president trump this morning on fox business, talking about what he's expecting from the upcoming mueller report. welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, march 22nd. along with joe, willie and me, we have historian and author of "soul of america," john meacham. staff writer, natasha bertrand, nbc news and msnbc contributor, former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense, now msnbc news national security analyst jeremy bash. good to get you all with us this hour. we've got growing anticipation that delivery of the mueller report could be imminent. special counsel watchers seem to be looking for chews everywhere, from the tmz-style photo of bob mueller arriving to work yesterday morning to the attorney general, who was spotted arriving at the white house yesterday for an unrelated

event. meanwhile, abc news citing sources familiar with the investigation reporting that no more indictments are coming from the special counsel. the report also highlights a letter from deputy attorney general rod rosenstein, suggesting because the president has not been charged, he is unlikely to be condemned in mueller's report. in a june 2018 letter to the chairman of the senate judiciary committee rosenstein writes, quote, we have a duty to prevent the disclosure of information that would unfairly tarnish people who are not charged with crimes. adding, quote, disclosing uncharged allegations against american citizens without a law enforcement need is considered to be a violation of a prosecutor's trust. >> and that's obviously, mika, you have rod rosenstein and the justice department learning from the mistakes that james comey made in the 2016 campaign. >> right. >> where they didn't indict hillary clinton, but james comey felt a need to hold a press

conference and indict her politically. obviousl obviously, i don't think anybody wants a repeat of what happened during that campaign then. you still have roger stone's situation out there. i don't think they have attempted to flip him yet. you also have the mueller investigation going to a judge, asking for an additional six weeks in the rick gates matter, to try to figure out what recommendation they're going to make for his sentencing, and they're still trying to get information. we've heard these reports before. and we've heard them from some of the same news outlet report that the mueller investigation was wrapping up, and they had been wrong time and time and time again. is this the idea that the media gets it right? >> i'm going to say something radical, joe, i have no idea. >> wow! >> i don't think anyone else does. anyone speculating about whether

they know it's coming out today is doing just that. they're speculating. i guess the question for me, jeremy bash, when it does come out -- first of all, whether you think we're close based on the tea leaves out there. but when it does come out, how much of this report should the public have access to? it will go to the attorney general's office first and he can filter it out if he decides to release it to the public. do you believe in the senator richard blumenthal idea, to put it out there with redactions or do you think that the attorney general should have the right to put out however much of it he likes? >> it's not just whether certain violations of law occurred but whether or not our president, our presidency and american policy somehow can be beholden financially and politically to a foreign adversary. to the timing and substance of the mueller report i'm in the joe scarborough report.

nobody knows nothing. we could be minutes away, hours away, months away. there are important strands of the case that haven't been concluded including the sentencing of mike flynn, rick gates and others. we could see the special counsel say i'm finished here. in any case, trump will say no collusion, and advocates will say there's more to investigate. >> natasha, you know about all the strands of this investigation. based on the loose ends still out there, what's your read about where bob mueller might be in this process and perhaps that he could spin off some of the loose ends to the southern district of new york, for example? >> speaking with people familiar to the investigation, that's what they expect mueller to do. they expect him to wrap up fairly imminently and submit this report to bill barr and then all the loose ends will be farmed out to, you know, the southern district of new york or prosecutors in washington, d.c. or virginia. but it's really hard to tell,

right? we are hearing a lot of chatter out of the justice department that today is the day reporters have been asked to be on stand by all day today, for example. we don't know what about, but it could very well be they're waiting for mueller to submit the report. there have been questions about whether or not bill barr will write a statement when he does receive the mueller report, to acknowledge he did receive it. that may be one way we'll find out. it's really hard to say. we also don't know whether -- how much the report is actually going to tell us when we do get to see it. we may not get to see it for months or maybe ever about the counter intelligence side of this investigation. that's the kind of thing that rod rosenstein was laying out in the letter to the senate judiciary committee last year. if people aren't going to be charged in this investigation, then why should we explain, you know, potential wrongdoing that they did in 2016 or beforehand or beyond? and that, i think, is where a

lot of people kind of misinterpreted the investigation. some say it's primarily counterintelligence investigation, but that doesn't square with my understanding of it from talking to people who are familiar with it. they say this was primarily a criminal investigation, that the counter intelligence side of this may never be really delved into, in detail, by mueller or the justice department. that, i think, may be an area where we're left hanging. >> all right. jeremy bash, i want to get your take on the new reporting of jared kushner's use of private accounts for official business. we've been hearing about this for a few months, including ivanka trump having issues with e-mail as well. house oversight committee chairman elijah cummings said in a meeting that kushner, in addition to using private e-mail, had also be using what's app as part of his official white house duties to communicate with foreign leaders.

the use of the encrypted messaging act to communicate with the saudi crown prince had been reported but now appears to have been more widespread. kushner's attorney, abby lowell, disputes cummings' account, saying he told the lawmaker that his client uses the app, quote, to talk to some people but did not specify who they were. lowell said because kushner took screen shots of the communications and sent him to his official white house account or the national security council, his client was not in violation of federal laws. cummings warns the white house that he might be forced to pursue, quote, alternative means to get the information he says the administration has so far refused to hand over. so many questions, jeremy. what's top of mind for you? >> this practice of using encrypted apps and nonofficial e-mail is more widespread than we think it is. i think it's becoming increasingly common. the principle concern is

twofold. one, that documents won't be preserved in accordance with federal law and second if that foreign policy is being discussed it's not being shared with the appropriate people in our government. i think it's okay for government officials to talk to foreign leaders on unclassified telephones, if it's an unsecured discussion, what's app, e-mail, whatever the case may be. it has to be preserved. there can't be a secret channel that's out of sight and out of view of other policymakers and i think it's obviously hypocritical for republicans to back this when they went to great lengths to criticize hillary clinton for similar things. >> they certainly did. >> this is something that hung over for a year and a half, hung over hillary clinton's for a year and a half. in part, as we said in real time, because she just didn't know how to get it behind her. but the question throughout that entire process was, was there malice of forethought? was she doing this deliberately to get around government

regulations, federal laws, the archiving, the transparency that our leaders are required to exhibit when they are talking to foreign leaders and other people inside the government? we don't even have those questions with jared kushner, because he had the knowledge of what happened to hillary clinton while this was going on. he was there at the rnc when you had mike flynn chanting "lock her up," when donald trump was having his crowds scream at every rally "lock her up" because of what hillary clinton did. this is actually even worse. and the question remains, how does the fbi not launch an investigation when there was clearly malice of forethought and jared kushner was trying to hide his communication with the saudi crown prince who tortured, chopped up and murdered a

"washington post" journalist? >> the hypocrisy would be stunning if it weren't donald trump and we take it for granted. think about what he's saying here. this is one of the central rationales of the campaign, that hillary clinton was crooked. why was she crooked? in part she had a server recklessly in her home and e-mailed off government e-mail. and she did. why should she be locked up, according to the chants in the crowd, that we still hear at his rallies? because of the server. jared kushner going to the white house, according to elijah cummings, abby lowell, attorney for jared kushner, using personal e-mail and using an encrypted whatsapp app to communicate with foreign leaders. they asked abby lowell did jared kushner pass classified information on whatsapp? the answer that abby lowell gave

is that's above my pay grade. in other words, he couldn't say keerly whether jared kushner has passed classified information on an app that you and i and others sitting on this show probably have on our phones. >> unbelievable. >> marine's top general is warning the pentagon that president trump's decision to deplore troops to the southern border is posing an unacceptable risk to solvency. two memos written by marine corps general. in them he said unplanned and unbudgeted deployment along the border that president trump ordered last fall had forced him to cancel or reduce planned military training in at least five countries and delay urgent repairs at bases.

in indonesia, scotland and mongolia and will reduce their participation in joint exercises with australia and south korea. he complained about canceling or shrinking the marines participation at a, quote, time where we are attempting to double down on strengthening alliances and attracting new partners. >> jeremy bash, this was all very predictable. donald trump, of course, using a crisis that he ginned up, a crisis he caused to undercut military readiness. a lot of men and women in the military, a lot of leaders that are very concerned about this. of course, we have all the intell chiefs coming together, talking about their threat assessments across the globe. nobody mentioned the american border. and yet now you have the top marine in the united states armed forces saying that this is causing a readiness threat to the united states of america and

to the marine corps. you know what? it just gets sxausting saying it time and time again but where the hell are the republicans in the house? where the hell are the republicans in the senate who actually care about our armed forces, who actually care about american readiness at home and across the globe? >> here we have, joe, the commandant of the four-star marine general, members of the chief of staff saying that the president of the united states is manufacturing a political crisis and eroding military readiness. we know from reports money that will go for this phantom wall, which will not make us more secure, will be taken from training, base repair, from schools for military children, undercutting, as you mentioned, military readiness and ultimately the combat power and effectiveness of the u.s. military forces. joe, when the history of the trump foreign policy is written, this politicization of our armed

forces, politicization of the military will go down as one of the signature things people focus on as a black mark on this presidential era. >> john meacham? >> is anyone surprised by this? wages of the wag the dog strategy we saw running into the state of the union. it was a manufactured crisis but with a real response. and i think jeremy is right. when we look back on this and look at there's the tone of the presidency, which can change once this president is not president, but to what extent has the tone created a new reality? and if this is affecting our military readiness, when an actual event occurs as opposed to one born out of the fevered imagination of the president, we will begin to pay the price for this. >> and, richard haas, since

2002, appropriations have been at a quicker pace than in a generation. we have had over the past 20 years we've had military leaders very concerned about the true protation, very concerned about readiness, exhaustion among the troops, needing to give them a rest before sending them back into hot zones and here we have the president of the united states sending them down to the border. we were complaining about it because he was doing it over the holidays when a lot of these troops needed to be back home with their families instead of doing a political stunt for the president of the united states. now the commandant of the marine corps saying this is damaging america's national security because this is damaging america's readiness. >> good for the commandant to the marine corps, joe. this is the kind of thing we need to have. we need people to speak up. it's true. look, we're now pushing the military in all these gray area

anti-terrorist type situations around the middle east and big chunks of africa. this is also happening at a time when we have to get ready for possible old-fashioned kinds of conflicts in places in asia, conceivably with north korea, other parts of europe, given what mr. putin is doing. this is one of the most stressful times in the history of the american military where geographically the entire world is in play and we can think of the possibility of large peace conflicts as well as these things in the middle east. we don't have anything to spare. plus our overall manpower numbers are quite modest compared to several decades ago. we simply do not have the margin to ask our military to do things that are not essential. and whatever else you think of what's going on at the southern border, it is as far from essential as anything we could ever imagine. >> not a crisis. so many massive moving parts here. now to this. in an abrupt shift in american

foreign policy, president trump has announced that the u.s. will recognize israel's sovereignty over the disputed golan heights territory. the president announced the decision in a tweet yesterday writing after 52 years it's time for the you state to fully recognize israel's sovereignty over the golan heights, which is of critical strategic and security importance to the state of israel and regional stability be. the united nations has rejected israel's occupation of the golan heights since 1967 when it seized the 400 square miles of rocky highlands from syria during the arab/israeli war. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu tweeted his praise to president trump which comes ahead of netanyahu's visit next week and his tight re-election campaign. trump was asked yesterday if that election had any impact on his decision.

>> mr. president let me end on golan heights. you tweeted about this today in israel. you said it's time for the u.s. to recognize israel's sovereignty and the golan heights. why now? >> i've been thinking about doing it for a long time. it's been a hard decision for every president. >> it's not about netanyahu's re-election? >> nochlt i wouldn't even know about that. i wouldn't even know about that. i hear he's doing okay. i don't know that he's doing great right now. i hear he's doing okay. whoever is against him i would imagine is also in favor of what i just did. every president has said do that. i'm the one who gets that done. >> of course, so many lies to sort through there. of course he knows that benjamin netanyahu is in the middle of a campaign, a guy facing indictment, who is actually putting pictures of donald trump next to him in the treats of israel, using trump -- >> as part of his campaign.

>> -- to desperately get re-elected. the president also wrong. maybe he just doesn't know history. it's sad if he's that ignorant of history but every president hasn't wanted to do this because every president has known that the status quo is efficient to protect israel and that, in fact, doing what donald trump said he was going to do yesterday would only make peace in the middle east more difficult and actually only make the israeli position in that region all the more insecure. >> exactly right. this has been the basis for what peacemaking has been over the decades and the one possibility now was less between israelis and palestinians but israel and some of the arab states. my own sense is that this has got to make that slightly more difficult. we're paying a diplomatic price. no one is pressing israel to give up the golan heights now at any time or in the future. it undermines an important plank

of american foreign policy, joe, not just toward the middle east but toward the entire world acres premise of what we believe in, that no country ought to be able to acquire territory through the use of force. that's the basis for all of our sanctions against what mr. putin has done in crimea. by acquiescing here, we're undermining this fundamental tenet of foreign relations and international policy. we're hurting ourselves around the world and undermining what little chance there is for us to be a peacemaker in the middle east. i'm always wary of talking about politics but this seems totally designed to help bibi netanyahu in the run-up to april 9th and help the president himself here at home politically. >> it does not help the united states across the globe. it actually doesn't even help the israelis when it comes to security, because they have controlled the golan heights since 1967.

it doesn't -- it doesn't help middle east peace. it certainly doesn't help the palestinians or others that were trying to get back to the table, to bring peace to that region. again, for the sake of the israelis as much as anybody else. natasha, richard haas brings up a better point. it empowers authoritarian leaders. it empowers people like vladimir putin, who is condemning donald trump's move from yesterday and using it to justify his own invasion of crimea. we have played, once again, right into vladimir putin's hands. haven't we? >> exactly. this is a playbook that the president has been taking from since he took office. it's kind of like we used to kind of be with the good kids at lunch. we used to sit with the british and our traditional allies and now we're sitting with the kids in detention, like russia and, you know, all these

authoritarian actors on the world stage. how did we get here? we got here because the president is more concerned, it seems, with how his actions will be met by his very, very small core base of supporters here in the u.s. and by these authoritarian leaders who are trying so desperately to get his approval and the approval of the united states and have that seat at the table again. and the president, as we know, craves that kind of flattery, that kind of attention. and the kind of attention that our traditional allies really haven't been giving him. they've been looking at him with this look on his face like what are we watching here? whoever is the last person to kind of be in his ear on these major, major foreign polishes are the ones typically who are going to have their way. and i think that's a really dangerous way of doing foreign policy. as we've seen, it can have really, really disastrous effects in the middle east and beyond. >> the president's announcement

came as secretary of state mike pompeo was in israel, meeting with netanyahu, a visit that also saw another major shift in u.s. foreign policy. pompeo joined the prime minister to a visit to the western wall? jerusalem's old city. it marked the first time that the u.s.'s top diplomat has visited the disputed area, accompanied by a senior israeli official. a potential tactic by the administration to recognize israel's sovereignty over the contested holy site. pompeo also agreed with reporters' suggestion that god may have sent president trump to earth to protect israel. >> dear lord. >> could it be that president trump right now has been sort of raised for such a time as this, just like queen effort, to help save the jewish people from an iranian menace? >> as a christian i certainly believe it's possible. it's remarkable. we were down in the tunnels where we could see 3,000 years ago and 2,000 years ago, if i have the history just right, to

see the remarkable history of the faith in this place and the work that our administration has done to make sure that this democracy in the middle east, that this jewish state remains. i'm confident that the lord is at work here. >> that's -- jon meacham, i just don't know where to begin. >> wow! >> a man who has probably committed felonies, paying off porn stars to help win elections and, as we noted today, cannot tell the truth -- he just cannot tell the truth be compared by mike pompeo to queen esther. you were born, donald trump, for times such as these. it's shocking and yet, my god, i'm sure a lot of people watching that -- >> so to speak, yeah. >> -- actually believed it. >> yeah. he who is without sin cast the

first stone. joking aside i say this as much humility as possible. there is an extraordinarily important tradition in western culture, mostly in america, of separating the kingdom of the world from the kingdom of god. we're warned in the judeo christian tradition that you should not put your trust in princes. the initial idea of the wall of separation of church and state, from an anglican divine, jefferson put it into circulation in america, out into the 20th century when the supreme court put it back in. the wall was supposed not to protect the state from the church but the church from the state, that the religious under

take i taking, the soul of the world trying to get back home to its real world in heaven, an ancient tradition, that was the central undertaking. and when we start ordaining and investing our mortal, flawed, fra fra frail selves with divine entities. >> so many evangelicals who were very critical of barack obama when he said things like we are the ones that we've been waiting for and other people referred to him as black jesus. they were so offended by that. and yet here we are have people elevating this man to old testament, biblical stature, a man again -- you're right, all

who have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god, i have done it so much, i would never cast stones. but here is a man who has said repeatedly that he has never felt the need to ask god for forgiveness. he has never felt the need to ask jesus to forgive him of his sins. he said in 2015, he reiterated it months later. it is a strange, strange thing, watching the idolotry of this man in particular, evangelical christians, if they actually read the new testament, should know better. >> there's a great lincoln story on this. he received the delegation of ministers and they said we're so glad god is on our side and lincoln said no, no, let's hope we're on his side. >> exactly. >> all right. >> it is something, mika. but there you have it.

again, it has turned into, in so many ways, a personality cult. and here you actually have the secretary of state, the secretary of state saying yes, perhaps that this is -- he is like queen esther. >> so many things wrong with that. jeremy bash, natasha bertrand, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," 16th anniversary of the u.s. of the invasion of iraq and the consequences of that war clearly still being felt today. we'll talk about the state of american foreign policy. as we go to break, a shout out to our friend, claire, claire mccaskill, who just became a grandmother for the 1st time. after nine boys in a row the senator is overjoyed to welcome a baby girl, clara, to the

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some breaking news overnight. nato says two u.s. service members were killed while conducting an operation in afghanistan this morning. no more information was provided. officials are withholding their identities until 24 hours after their next of kin is notified. these latest deaths come amid peace talks between the u.s. and taliban. this brings the total number of u.s. deaths in afghanistan this year to four. about 13,000 u.s. forces remain in that country. meanwhile, wednesday marked the 16th anniversary of the u.s. invasion of iraq.

one of america's longest-running armed conflicts, launched march 20th, 2003, the war has claimed the lives of thousands of u.s. troops. vice chair of the house armed services committee and veteran of the iraq war where he received the bronze star. democratic congressman anthony brown of maryland. also with us, senior political scientist at the rand corporation, michael mezar, author of the new book about the u.s.'s decision to invade iraq entitled "leap of faith: huberis, negligence and america's greatest foreign policy tragedy." >> i wonder if you consider iraq to be america's greatest

military tragedy stacked up against, of course, what happened in vietnam where 55,000 american troops were killed and 2 million vietnamese were killed as well. how do the two stack up? >> i mean, certainly. look, if you compare the numbers of deaths and wounded, vietnam, we saw greater casualties. i don't think that minimizes the tragedy, the failure of the decision to go in and invade iraq to fight, you know, an eight-year war. and the loss of over 5,000 service members, 30,000 coming home, wounded and injured with physical and psychological wounds. a society in iraq that is still recovering. conflicts still in that country. >> congressman, i am curious how

these stack up. you certainly had a lasting impact after vietnam. you had the khmer rouge coming in, millions of cambodians being slaughtered and here we are 15 years later seeing the chaos that, along with other policy decisions, led to the death of 500,000 syrians. >> you saw the emergence of isis, which we are now continuing to fight in syria. that's ripe with civil war and so, yeah, the decision to go into iraq, congress authorized the use of military force, both iraq and afghanistan, without scope i scoping out that either in a time limit, geographical limit or requiring some exit strategy

to be articulated on the front end. congress just abdicated its responsibility. for iraq and afghanistan it's time for congress to come back and have a debate so we can make decisions about, you know, how long are we going to continue to be in afghanistan and to what extent are we going to accept the proliferation of military operations around the globe based on those amufs. >> michael, let me ask you about this leap of faith, this huberis, this negligence and what you call america's greatest tragedy, policy tragedy. how is it -- of course, we see that very clearly 16 years later. how is it at the time that over 70% of americans supported this, most democrats supported it, the democrats in the senate, democrats running for president

in '04 and dr. brzezinski and brent scocroft were the exceptions. was this just a result of 9/11 and 1% solution mentality? why is it that so many of us and, of course i'm right at the front of the line there, were swept into believing that this was a just war that needed to be fought? >> yeah, absolutely. i think that is the question. it's a great question. it's the central question i tried to investigate. and the argument in the book is that, in fact, there are some factors that led the united states to be in that position that can happen at any time. there were some that were specific to this administration but there were a lot that were general. you have a big idea, narrative that is infused in the american

body politic and creates a basic idea that this is not a crazy thing to do. with 9/11, you have a sense of imperative, moral obligation that we have to act, as we had in vietnam, bay of pigs and other times then you have people in the process offering some kind of scheme that allows the authors of the war to believe it will be cheap and quick. you put those three things together and that is a recipe for foreign policies we've seen before iraq and my fear is that we could see again. >> the bush administration push this had. it seems that the narrative moving beyond the war is that they pushed it alone. of course, you had the cia director saying it was a slam dunk, that saddam had wep ebs of mass destruction when george w. bush said there's evidence that -- no, mr. president, it's a slam dunk. i researched it for a book i wrote. "washington post" and "new york times" saying one of george w.

bush's greatest challenges going into office was to get rid of saddam hussein's weapons of mass destruction. this was on the editorial page of "the new york times" and "washington post" before he got into office. how did we all -- i'm not trying to spread blame. the buck stops with george w. bush, but how did we all get it so wrong that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction? >> well the wmd piece is pretty specific. saddam made a decision in the 1990s to get rid of them, to try to get out from under sanctions but also made the decision to not publicize that decision because he was afraid of implications. your larger question, again is exactly right. we have to focus -- one issue of accountability and blame is there was absolutely a completely incompetent decision process that led to the intervention and some of the planning for the aftermath and people in the administration

have to take accountability for that. but going forward as a country, just as you're asking, the real question is, how did we all get pult pulverizersed into that? those basic reasons. we have a sense that america is a missionary country. it was madeleine albright who said we're the indispensable nation and asked the u.s. military, you have this military, why aren't you willing to use it more? the american people have sympathy for the idea of missions that are going forth to do good in the world. then you have this sense, whether there's an attack or threat or something that happens that makes people feel we have to act now. so then you can get the whole nation behind something that in retrospect we look back and say how could we have possibly walked into that? >> i over generalized my language when i said we all. we all being over 70%, key democrats, talking hillary clinton, john edwards, john kerry or -- just go down the

list. but there were people like dr. brzezinski, like brent scocroft, awful lot of democrats in the house and in the senate who fought this and didn't believe saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. you wrote about this in "war of necessity, war of choice." you were there on the ground while it was happening. how did americans, 7 of 10 americans and the intelligence community get sucked into believing this was a war of necessity? more importantly, how do we avoid that sort of tragedy from ever happening again on our watch? >> i think the reason is after 9/11, there was almost zero propensity for taking any risk, the 1% thing. there was assumption that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. when you assume something, you tend to discard any evidence

against it and emphasize any evidence that does. bush was sold the idea that iraq would very quickly turn democratic and playing off vietnam would be a positive domino theory. iraq would go democratic and the rest of the region wouldn't be able to resist the example, including iran. so, this was a big idea. and this was sold from a lot of people around him that this would be a transformational moment and it was hard to resist. people going into the oval office saying all this upside, very little downside. you didn't have much of a process. what stunned me at the time -- i was working with colin powell at the state department. the lack of a formal decision making process. there wasn't a single meeting, a formal decision was taken. when i wrote about it, i said the decision happened almost passive. there wasn't a moment where the president sat with the senior advisers and said what are the pluses, what are the negatives? what could go wrong?

what are our alternatives? there was nothing that systematic. in thinking about where we are today in the decision we're even talking about the with the golan, yet again making consequential decisions informally and one of the lessons of the iraq war is that process is there to protect us. when presidents make big decisions without process we really make ourselves vulnerable. >> congressman, maybe one of the other lessons is that wars are not quick and easy ever. there's no such thing as a quick and easy war. even with afghanistan, that was served as mop-up duty, go in, take out the taliban, mop up al qaeda. we just reported breaking news that two more american service members died there. we don't have information on them. you can bet they were probably in grade school on 9/11. that's where we are after 18 years of this war. how do we stop the momentum if this happens again? in other words, we come to this

moment of crisis and it feels like something has to happen but don't worry, it will be quick and easy, how do we change the perspective of the foreign policy community but also of the american people? >> first of all, let me say this. i agree that the buck stopped with president bush and he was not forthright with the american people in terms of the justification, the rationale, the reason to go into iraq. i would hope that a lesson learned is that when an administration is being deliberate in a decision to go to war and remember that the bush administration laid out a timeline that they would follow, congress also has a responsibility through the intelligence committees, armed services committees to demand an explanation on what does the end state look like? going to your question, when we do withdraw troops, what is our continued engagement in the country, in the region.

partners to address the underlying tensions. what would be the economic assistance that will be necessary? the diplomatic engagement that's necessary because when you withdraw troops from war that doesn't mean that the war is over. so, we can prevent forever was.s >> congressman anthony brown, thank you very much. and michael mazaar, thank you as well. the book is "leap of faith: huberis, negligence and america's foreign policy" 737 max 8 planes that crashed, turns out the airliners lacked safety upgrades because boeing charged extra for them. that report is ahead on "morning joe." them that report is ahead on "morning joe. - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this.

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the slaying of "washington post" columnist jamal khashoggi last year, one of 53 journalists killed around the world in 2018. at least 34 were singled out for murder, nearly double the number from previous years. more than 1300 journalists have been killed since the organization began keeping records back in 1992. with almost 900 of them murdered. according to cpj research, nine out of ten journalist murders go unsolved and five countries are responsible for more than 40% of unsolved journalist murders in the last decade. joining us now, advocacy for director at the committee to protect journalists, courtney

radj. it's called "the last column" and features the final works of 24 journalists killed in the service of news gathering. courtney, thank you so much for being on this morning. >> my pleasure. thank you. >> where are you hoping this book will have the most impact? and tell us whose columns are featured. >> sure. we're really hoping that one of the things that this book does is highlight for a general audit krens really how dangerous it is to be a journalist and what people do to bring us the news. it's just a selection of 24 from among more than 1300 journalists who have been killed since we began keeping records, that they represent a range of journalists, some reporting on the front lines, like marie colvin, james foley, others who are columnists like jamal khashoggi, many who are journalists working in their communities and knew very well about the dangers that they faced including a mexican

journalist, whose second-year anniversary of her murder is tomorrow. and drawing attention to these cases that people will realize that the legacy is in our hands and we have to do something to keep journalists safe. >> jon meacham? >> talk a little bit about what you think the global forces are that are creating such a dangerous climate for journalists at work. >> there are a few of them. one is that journalists are, of course, killed in crossfire and on dangerous assignment but, in fact, the majority of journalists are murdered and they're murdered with impunity. and nine out of ten journalist killers go free. impunity is a huge driver. if you don't face any consequences for murdering journalists, then you get away with it. of course, the murder of jamal khashoggi is at the forefront right now. it's also the anti-press rhetoric around the world, undermining the very value of journalism, the denegration of journalists and journalism as

fake news through legislation that's used to imprison journalists, record numbers of journalists imprisoned for the past three years, more than 250 each year. so, you know, between all of this anti-press rhetoric, the dangers that they face and, of course, a climate in which because of modern technology, journalists aren't necessarily the needed middle men anymore. those in power try to take their messages directly to the public and bypass journalists and often times they're seen as problematic instead of an important part of the process. >> richard haas, i have a question for you. to what extent are journalists mainly vulnerable in war zones and to what extent are we seeing it, if you will, in normal cities and streets? what's going on, actually, with this? >> so war zones and conflict zones remain very dangerous for journalists. and as you saw in the info graphic earlier, some of the most dangerous countries for journalists remain those where there are active conflicts like syria, like iraq. but we also see that journalists

face dangers in cities. the u.s. press freedom tracker, which we are one of the partners on, tracking incidents in the united states, finds that journalists are under threat during protests, covering protests. we know that, actually, the u.s. was tied with mexico for the fourth most dangerous country last year for journalists, and the fourth most deadly country because of the shooting at the capitol gazette newsroom that left four journalists and media worker dead. so, you know, the threats are all around, and they comprise all different kinds of threats whether you're in a war zone or not. >> is turkey still the place imprisoning most journalists in the world? >> yes, by far. three years in a row. it really has clamped down on the press. >> all right. the book is the last column. >> thank you so much. >> available now. >> courtney radsch. >> thank you very much. still ahead, washington is bubbling with speculation that the mueller report could be released at any moment now.

also, jared kushner becomes an even big ger national securiy concern, as we learn more about his habit of using whatsapp to talk to foreign leaders. "morning joe" is back in a moment. n leaders. "morning joe" is back in a moment esses like this. this and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself.

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and the two-state solution is one that the united states and all the other nations in the world endorse and accept, except for israel. and the united states has basically increased its previous preeminence as a trusted mediator. >> former president jimmy carter, discussing middle east peace policy on "morning joe." that was back in 2015. and the reason we begin there today? at the age of 94 and 172 days, carter becomes the longest living president in u.s. history today. >> just really quickly about jimmy carter. here is a man again, an extraordinary human being, a wonderful man. just a great contrast with, unfortunately, what we're struggling through right now as a nation, but here is somebody who was the only president in our lifetime to bring middle east peace. >> right. >> the president that opened,

actually opened diplomatic relations to china 40 years ago as you, mika, and your family know so well. and also a man who championed human rights. human rights leading in to the 1980s when that call not only from jimmy carter and later ronald reagan and the pope, and margaret thatcher and others, actually eventually led to the fall of the iron curtain. >> thichink about that. then, of course, this president, president trump, just made a huge change in america's approach to the holy land. we will be talking about that. >> actually, that will take us further from peace. >> that's correct. good morning. and this is just a friday, march 22nd. along with joe, willie and me, we have historian, author of "the sole of america" and profess professor jon meacham.

president to the council of foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray," richard haas is with us. and former fbi special agent and msnbc contributor clint watts. we'll get to the israel story in a moment. and secretary of state mike pom pompeo agreeing with a reporter's suggestion that god may have sent president trump to earth to protect israel. also the marine's top general warning that the pentagon, that president trump's decision to deplore troops to the southern border is an unacceptable risk to the marine corps solvency. and the deadly boeing crashes did not include two important safety features in the cockpit because boeing charged extra for them. >> so, willie geist, here is the deal. we're going to sell you billions of dollars worth of planes but if you want to know how to keep

the planes in the air, you need to pay us extra. >> good god. >> it's an amazing story. i know we're going to dig into it, but that's effectively what they said. it was like getting the floor mats thrown in with a car when you buy it. it was an option on these planes and now making a standard feature on these plane. >> with how to keep the plane flying. >> yeah. >> jon meacham, let's go around really quickly. couple of things you mentioned. jimmy carter. obviously, jimmy carter defeated in 1980. there was a reigning hostage crisis, obviously, quite a few oil shocks, many things beyond his control. looking back historically, i would suggest you had 20, 30 years of excesses that the democratic party had brought overreaches that all seemed to fall on the shoulders of jimmy carter in that 1980 election.

but, again, he makes history today, just like 40 years ago. talk about a rear. camp david and then the opening of china. two events that have impacted our world in remarkable ways. i would say for the better over the past four years. >> and historically, he is an emblem of one of the great american myths. i say myth meaning story that has importance, which is that a farmer from georgia can become president of the united states. he was -- went to annapolis, engineer, obviously, incredibly bright, man of great faith. still teaches, i think, sunday school. i went to one of his sunday school classes not long ago. and he didn't mention that trump had been, by the way, sent to heaven -- from heaven to earth. maybe he needs to check his -- >> that didn't come up? >> it didn't.

it didn't. >> weird. >> check the footnotes on that. but he came in at a moment of enormous loss of confidence in the system. president ford had done a marvelous job, kind of like the end of hamlet, he had come in at the end of watergate and pulled things back together. very close race in 1976. and then he did something -- i just happened to read it the other day for -- because it's the kind of thing that i do to pass the time. i reread his "crisis of confidence" speech in 1979. it's known as the malaise speech. >> right. >> it's actually a really interesting document. people who have a caricature view should look at it. he was talking about national will. he was talking about our devotion to each other, to the national experiment and we're seeing in a lot of the division at the moment, we're seeing a

manifestation of the kind of forces that he bluntly worried about. >> and was, of course, right. we'll get into the story, richard haas, but jimmy carter's efforts, dr. brzezinski's efforts and others efforts to bring peace to the middle east, obviously they've not been replicated over the past 40 years. and yesterday no one could leave well enough alone because, in fact, israel was occupying the golan heights. president trump kicked a hornet's nest and now has made middle east peace an even more distant dream. >> you're exactly right. this doesn't change the reality. no one was pressing israel to

give up the golan heights and no one ever will or would. needless to say that is in the distance future if then. i woke up to vladimir putin criticizing the you state that talks about inadmissibility, acquiring territory by force. he is now citing what the united states is supporting. this is the most basic rule of international relations to the extent there is one. it's what the united states cited when saddam hussein inv e invaded kuwait, took kuwait. it's what we cited after crimea. it doesn't do anything to improve israeli security. >> absolutely nothing. and, mika, all it does, this is not going to be a surprise -- does a great favor, as richard just said, to vladimir putin,

who now has justification for the crimea invasion. >> now we get to what's happening today. the anticipation growing that the delivery of the mueller report could be imminent. special watchers seem to be looking for clues everywhere, from the tmz style of bob mueller riesk to work yesterday morning to the attorney general spotted arriving at the white house yesterday for an unrelated event. former fbi director james comey, whose firing of the president that led to mueller's appointment is also explaining what he wants from the special counsel report. in an op-ed for "the new york times," comey writes, in part, this -- even though i believe mr. trump is morally unfit to be president of the united states, i'm not rooting for mr. mueller to demonstrate that he's a criminal. i'm also not rooting for mr. mueller to clear the president.

i'm not rooting for anything at all except for the special counsel be permitted to finish his work. comey also calls for, quote, maximum transparency about the special counsel's work writing, quote, i don't know all the considerations that will go into deciding precisely what to say about the completion of that work and when to say it but because the department of justice is guided first and always by the public interest, it should provide details about finished investigations when the public needs to know them, as it traditionally has. former fbi director also writes that he hopes congress does not remove the president from office, arguing that a significant portion of the country would see that as a coup leading to more division. >> okay. enough of mr. comey. >> the bigger thing, joe, is what happens when it is delivered? that's going to be huge, breaking news. >> right. >> the process is that it goes to -- it doesn't go to the

public. and it may not, but there are ways for the public to see it. couldn't, for example, the oversight committee subpoena robert mueller at some point? >> they could. here is the thing. everybody is talking about the mueller report's imminent release. we've been talking about it for several months. >> there have been false alarms. >> people have been talking about it wrapping up for years. there has been one false alarm after another. >> though the president seems like -- >> willie, why would a report come out today? why would it come out today when robert mueller asked the court for six more weeks to try to sort out the gates plea deal? why would the report come out now? >> right. >> when you still have roger stone in a position where they need to get information from him and try to flip him?

>> seems like there are loose ends to be tied up. it's a tribute to robert mueller that we have no idea when this report r will come out. it's a tribute to the operation he's running and professionalism of him and his team, clint, that there have been all these false alarms because no one knows. no one is in this room that effectively has been a black box now for two years. what do you think about this transparency question, though? we he had senator richard blumenthal on yesterday. he is pushing for a release of the report with redactions that are necessary. >> full transparency. anything less leads to conspiracy on both sides to push their political agenda. there's no way we cannot disclose to the public the

essential nuggets this report found. we lost sight from where we started this from the beginning. do we or do we not want influence from a foreign power in our elections? do we or do we not want foreign money pouring in to our presidential candidates? these are legislative things. we should get more from this report than just one team won or one team didn't win. this started based on russian influence of the election. we really don't know the full scope of that. all the money discussions have really been behind closed doors. i don't know had an that is. i search that all the time. to think through and moving forward what does get put out in the public? there's a critical national security public component to this, wikileaks. we've heard of possible sealed indictments against wikileaks. this has been floating in national security for years, that if we were to go after wikileaks, it could lead to

massive information dumps around the world. this will probably never come out or they'll have to make a decision. that's the key thing, like joe was talking about. there is not a moment when the report hits. ag barr, former director mueller know how washington works. the moment it gets delivered to his desk, the clock starts. >> still ahead on "morning joe," jared kushner has a big overseas portfolio and apparently he has the messages to prove it. new reporting says the presidential adviser's use of whatsapp for official business was more widespread than previously known. we'll talk about that next on "morning joe." - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this. this and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself.

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>> beyond. >> -- beyond negligent. >> yeah. >> beyond negligent that we now find out again that jared kushner used private accounts, including an app. >> whatsapp. >> on his phone for official business. >> yeah. this is what we know so far. his attorney has even brought it forward. house oversight committee chairman elijah cummings says he was told in a meeting with kushner's attorney that jared kushner, in addition to using private e-mail, had also been using whatsapp as part of his official white house duties to communicate with foreign leaders. kushn kushner's use of the encrypted messaging app to communicate with the saudi crown prince had been reported but now it appears to have been more widespread. kushner's attorney, abby local, disputes cummings' account, that he told the lawmaker that his

client used the app to, quote, talk to some people, but did not specify who they are. >> let's just stop. >> you know what? >> let's just stop right there. we've heard, willie, that kushner took screen shots of the communications. >> think about his security clearance issues. >> right. >> that he has. >> and this is a guy that has problems getting a security clearance. >> nobody wants him there, because he has no experience. >> he and his family business need so much money and there is a concern that he could be used, he could be shook down for funding of projects. but, willie, again, let's go back to hillary clinton. what did "the new york times" talk about, what did "the washington post" talk about, what did everybody talk about for a year and a half during the campaign? the fact that hillary clinton wouldn't step up to the plate and explain how she communicated with foreign leaders using this home server. was there malice of forethought?

was she doing this specifically to hide communications from americans, to get around the regulations, to get around the laws that the fbi were investigating? we don't have those questions here. jared kushner knew what had happened to hillary clinton. there was clearly malice of forethought. he was clearly, intentionally hiding communications between himself and the murderer that now runs saudi arabia, the murderer and torturer who killed a "washington post" journalist. he was on whatsapp. so, willie, my question is simple. maybe clint can help us here. if an fbi launched an investigation against hillary clinton, why in the hell would they not be launching an investigation in this case against jared kushner for doing something -- i don't know, actually seems far worse. >> it's astounding that the

essential theme of the 2016 campaign was hillary clinton and her e-mails coming from the trump campaign side. what were the "lock her up" chants about? they were related to this, her secrecy, having a server in her home. it was this, except now you have somebody sitting in the white house, clint watts, using an app that you and i probably both have on our phones right now, talking not just to the crown prince of saudi arabia, but abby lowell, according to elijah cummings said foreign leaders, plural. this is how he did business, not on official e-mail but on an app that is encrypted, yes, but i imagine not typically difficult to break through. >> in the digital world there's spy agencies for any budget. everybody around the world knows that you can hire companies to crack into any of these end points and go into any of these communications. i really would like everyone to read that story if you want to think your communications are safe. don't worry about government

surveillance but corporate guys for hire, hired by all these countries. what's the country named in there? the uae. who have we heard jared kushner communicated with? uae, qatar. if you work in the fbi or you're a diplomat, why does erdogan, mbs or putin or kim jong-un all know more about what the white house is saying than i do? we are blinded to these communications but we have people running around with iphones just firing off messages. it's completely irresponsible. this cannot be secured by sending through whatsapp, which is actually a facebook company, which also came out yesterday. maybe be we left everyone's password passwords out on the internet. right? so this is ridiculous. it totally breaks security protocols and leaves us vulnerable whether you're at capitol hill, foreign dictators and authoritarians know more

about the communications of the white house than we do in our own country. coming up on "morning joe" for a job that requires decision making, joe biden sure is taking his time, deciding whether or not to run for president. update on the potential front-runner in waiting next on "morning joe." "morning joe." - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this. this and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself.

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joe biden continues to weigh when he will actually jump into the 2020 crowded democratic field. several top donors have said they will not fund raise for him over concerns of whether he can win the party. he reached out to top donors after he grew concerned that he would not be able to compete with former congressman beto o'rourke and bernie sanders, who each raised millions within 24 hours of their announcements. associated press reports according to several sources that have spoken to biden, the 76-year-old is concerned whether

his age may be the biggest hurdle in a potential 2020 run. he is 78, i believe. past and current advisers to the former vp have suggested a number of options to alleviate concerns about his age, including teaming up with a younger running mate beto o'rourke or really young pete buttigieg. >> love pete. mayor pete! >> msnbc contributor kimberly atkins, former state department official and senior adviser to hillary clinton, phillipe reinas. can i start with phillipe really quick? >> sure. >> i'm fascinated by this. beto o'rourke is a lightning rod. he raises money. he captures the media's attention. and i understand it all to an extent, but why does someone like mayor pete take so long to break through? definitely had a breakthrough moment on our show. he has one every time he comes

on. i would be looking if i were a donor or somebody in the democratic party who could make things move along, i would be looking at him. >> i think a lot of people are. i think one big advantage that beto o'rourke had, he a year head start. he was running against ted cruz. >> right. so it's timing. >> in one of the less contested senate races and was getting a tremendous amount of national attention for it. mayor pete buttigieg. i'm going to try to get that right maybe by the time he's sworn in. he is getting great buzz. the more people see him, whether it's on your show, town halls or late-night tv, they are really wowed by him. that's the way it's supposed to work. people are getting a chance to see him and people really like him. >> it's just timing, i guess?

>> i think so. bernie sanders had a three-year head start and beto had a one-year head start. >> kimberly, joe biden is concerned about his age. he would be 78 when he, i guess, started the presidency, when he began it, which seems incredible to say. but before even his first midterm test, he would be in his 80s. it is hard to imagine how that squares up with where the democratic party is today. and running against a president who is the oldest person ever sworn in. so i can understand why joe biden is looking at this as his biggest hurdle. what insights can you give us on which direction he's going? >> yeah. i mean, he clearly -- look, it seems clear from all indications that joe biden really wants to run. he's just trying to find the best way to enter the race. and he's running into a lot of headwinds on a lot of different fronts, including this issue about his age. right now, the democratic party -- we have been talking

for more than a year about all of the energy in the democratic party. it's on -- it's in the progressive part of the party. it's fueled by young people. and so to have a potential octogenarian in the white house doesn't seem to jive with that. that's why his team is floating these balloons about running mates. maybe beto o'rourke or stacy abrams, who they themselves may have their own ambition to run for the presidency and at least give it a shot themselves instead of hitching their campaigns on to joe biden's. so, it just shows the difficulty right now, somebody from four years ago, what a big difference four years makes. if joe biden had run four years ago, it would be a different calculation than it is today. coming up on "morning joe," our own legal firm is stand iin by. melber, rosenberg and bharara is

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welcome back to "morning joe." some of the stories we're following this morning, british prime minister theresa may won her request yesterday to delay the deadline to exit the european union to may 22nd. averting the possibility of a possible chaotic departure of her country originally scheduled for next friday. donald tusk announced the decision on twitter, that he would extend the deadline but only if british parliament approved a withdrawal agreement next week. however, if british lawmakers fail, the extension would be april 12th. important safety features were not included in the cockpit

in the indonesian and eth yoepian airliyoep i ian airliners because they did not pay for them. two safety features on the aircraft that came at an additional cost. the standard issue boeing 737 max jets feature only one sensor. investigators believe ind nearbiy's lion air flight had a single faulty sensor that provided bad data to the plane's computer and put it into a nose dive. boeing's chief executive said the company is working to make its 737 max jets safer and the company says the add-on features will now become standard on the planes along with the software update. seriously? >> mika, it's really unbelievable. it also goes to training. >> yeah. >> some pilots were trained to know how to avert that dive. you had the example, of course,

of that indonesian flight that was actually the same plane that was going down the day before. fortunately, the jump seat had a pilot that knew how to tell them how to avert the crash. >> right. >> and then the next day, of course, that same plane crashed, killing all those people. really, there is no excuse. >> the big stories we're watching this morning, along with that one, is anxiously awaiting the mueller report, if it will be delivered today or not is the big question. and also questions surrounding jared kushner's communications with foreign leaders through whatsapp. and also using a personal e-mail account. >> what is the fbi doing about whatsapp and jared kushner? >> let's ask msnbc chief correspondent and host of "the beat" ari melber, former u.s. attorney and former aide to robert mueller, now msnbc news law enforcement analyst, chuck rosenberg is with us, and former

united states attorney for the southern district of new york, preet bharara, out with a new book called "doing justice: prosecutor's thoughts on crime, justice and the rule of law." >> preet, let's begin with you. we heard, once again, that the mueller rrt is going to be released. this reminds me, like every friday, we heard in maybe 2005, 2006, this is the friday that karl rove is going to be indicted. joe, we need you in front of a camera. i think i heard that for every friday one summer. we've been hearing about the release or the ending of the mueller investigation and the coming out of the report now for a year or so. what should -- do we expect the report to be out today at noon, or is this just more bad reporting? >> it's funny you mentioned karl

rove in 2005-2006. i was working the senate at the time and i remember multiple people calling medium mooe up saying there was a hot rumor that patrick fitzgerald was about to indict 22 people in the bush administration and would i know about it because once upon a time pat fitzgerald and i worked in the same office. there is a bit of deja vu. but even more deja vu. three weeks ago we went through the same drill where we heard hour by hour that the mueller report would be handed over to the ag. i heard the same rumors you have. i'm conceskeptical more than tw people. the work doesn't seem to be ending any time soon. rick gates is still continuing to cooperate with several investigations, rod rosenstein said he is going to stay on. so i am cautiously skeptical of the fact that the mueller report will come out by noon but i could be completely wrong, because nobody knows. >> and, chuck, these rumors, where do they come from? why do they continue?

and, again, why would it make sense that he would wrap things up if he just asked the judge for an additional six weeks to figure out exactly what recommendations to make for rick gates and also because you have a certain individual from ft. lauderdale that they still have business to do with? >> yeah. you're referring to mr. stone who is now under indictment. the mueller team indicted him and will prosecute him in federal court. to preet's point, there is still ongoing sentencing for rick gates, for michael flynn and don't forget, months ago we learned that jerome cosi was handed a plea agreement. it would be highly unusual for prosecutors to give them a plea agreement and then simply walkway from the case. there seems to be some threads left to pull. i don't know where the rumors come from. i hear them all the time. like preet i am somewhat skeptical for the same reasons he articulated.

since you mentioned his book, let me just add, i read his book "doing justice." it is terrific. i wrote a review of it for law fair. read his book, not my review. he did a wonderful job talking about the really difficult decisions that prosecutors and agents are faced with including, by the way, in cases like the one before us. highly recommended. >> book recommendation, very nice. >> interesting. that's lovely. >> want to ask you to play the parlore game of when the report is going to come out. as preet said, nobody knows at this point. i will ask you about what's left for bob mueller, based on what we know publicly? what else is out there that he still needs to resolve? >> two points, i don't want to steal chuck rosenberg's thunder. chuck, i know you love -- >> here we go. >> tell me more and i'll tell you how much i love him or her. >> none of that, ari. let's talk about the log.

>> he famously said i'm going to work for months, not going to take no vacations. i'm like a bad doctor, i got no patients. >> oh, god. >> no patience for this. sorry, joe. there are clues. we don't know. we'll see what the federal process is. to the legal question you posed, look, a lot of this can be handed off if bob mueller has reached his findings, doesn't want an in-person interview with the president and wants to take the roger stone case and hand it completely to d.c. or take other cases and farm them out or the fact that the grand jury has not, according to public clues, been meeting recently doesn't mean it hasn't already done other things. it is possible there are other sealed indictments and they could be revealed at a later date or in conjunction with him finishing and turning in findings. it's also possible that there are no more indictments. pat fitzgerald was operating

under these same rules, appointed by a recused person acting as attorney general, attorney general james comey. there are certain things that could be farmed out or it could take longer. that's why ultimately we're all looking at very limited clues. >> you know, jon meacham, if you could just send ari melber the memo, we only quote manilow on this show. last night i said good-bye. now it's been years. i'm back in the city and nothing clear. clearly nothing is clear on mueller. i just did it there. >> stop. >> well done. >> well, thank you very much. but jon meacham is with us. >> i don't understand anything that's been said in the last 30 seconds. >> he has a hamlet quote, a reference to the french indian war and a question for preet. go ahead. >> preet, did you ever actually prosecute anything involving the

chez rebellion because it was a critical case. >> oh, my god. >> early on. >> there was a statute of limitations problem. >> oh. if that were true, i would be out of business. going forward, we talked about how ari has pointed out there may be ongoing investigations. what's the historical precedent for that? i don't remember. i don't think there were too many watergate investigations that continued past jaworski, but iran-contra. are we going to be looking at possibly a series of open matters, even after the report? >> i'm not aware of any but i'm not a certified historian like yourself. it may be the function of a current climate. lots of times when special prosecutors or independent

counsel historically have had cases handed to them they like to keep them. that's true in the southern district as well. when you find things that you can prosecute, you assume you'll be allowed to continue until you're done with all of it. it may be that bob mueller, because he saw the tea leaves, kept hearing about the threats to his viability, but continuing as special counsel that donald trump might terminate him at any moment that he moved more quickly, referred some cases to sdny, national security division at main justice and d.c. and so it could be that this would be the first time, as you say, you have a proliferation of cases continuing beyond his own lifespan as special counsel because of the threat that keeps coming from donald trump. also you have lots of folks being emboldened by the fact that donald trump has said he might exercise his pardon power. it's ironic to me in some ways. you have district attorney in manhattan bringing a case against paul manafort on the very day he gets sentenced and

my sense is that he did that, in part, obviously, because he wanted a pardon-proof charge against paul manafort, which is probably the result of a lot of exercising of the pardon muscle and power that donald trump has shown. if donald trump had kept his mouth shut and not casually and cavalierly talked about pardoning people, i'm not sure that paul manafort would be under indictment. >> what kind of report do you expect him to present to the attorney general? will it be a voluminous report or just a list of indictments, many of which we've already seen? and the second part of my question is, what do you believe the obligation to be of the attorney general in terms of how much to present to the american public, the full report with redactio redactions, summary of the report or not at all, as some have suspected he may do? >> let me take the second part first. i think this say tricky question for bill barr. i can think of at least four categories of stuff that could be in a report that he either

can't fully share or doesn't want to share. you could have classified information, which could be shared if declassified or redacted. you could have grand jury information, which could only be shared with a judge's order. you could have information that exonerates other people. now, preet knows that occasionally the justice department makes that type of information publicly, but typically, we do not. and then this may be the most important part. there is information undoubtedly about ongoing investigations. as preet noted, some of that has been handed off to other zriks, including the southern district of new york. one of the reasons that has been handed off, as preet said, is some of these cases, i have no doubt but also because mueller's remit is quite narrow. it's really just russian interference in the 2016 election and any association or links to those on the trump campaign. so it would make sense to me that you would have other stuff in this report that would have

to go elsewhere to be prosecuted. having worked for mueller, my guess is that when this thing comes it's going to be pretty darn thorough. i think he gets for leaving stuff out of it. the heart of the decision is what barr does with it and not what mueller does with it. >> when this report comes out, people are going to project their preconceived conclusions. a lot of people made up their mind that the president colluded or did not collude with the russians. does it make more obligation for attorney general barr to present the full report to guess or speculate of the missing parts? >> under the rules it is the attorney general's call of a broad standard of what you release. big picture, i think when people look at this, it would be important to understand that the

mueller findings about what happens at the beginning, and they end at the end. the last thing he does is have findings that do not have charging conspiracy in the election. that would be bob mueller determing their lease was not chargeable collusion. does that alone mean this is a great celebration for the trump's administration? we have law enforcement experts, they would all know that this is a faster indictment rate of presidential advisers that in the presidents in history, the watergate comes in second and bill clinton having a few people in the second term. barack obama going eight years and no one was ever indicted. donald trump has six advisers indicted and some convicted. that's not something most presidents spike the football over even if mueller does not

charge on elections of conspiracy. if he does not, we'll know that part would be good news for the president. >> a lot of which is. preet bharara, thank you so much. the new book "doing justice," chuck rosenberg and ari melber. thank you, ari, we'll be watching "the beat." willie, what do you have for this sunday? >> thank you for asking. my guest is nyong'o lupita. this film is scarier than kw"ge o out." she plays two characters. she's wonderful to talk to, smart and graceful and everything you would expect from her.

>> by the way, willie, a lot of bro love yesterday between you and ryan reynolds. >> that's nice. >> get a room. you are starting to weep. >> he says something nice about me and i thanked him for saying that. before you thank me, they took out the second part and he showed me the quote that he sent which was a horrible profane insult went after my character. >> i like to stay busy following christina geist. >> she's amazing. >> up next. i agree. >> two big house stories, the fda approves the first drug specifically for severe post partum depression. sth >> that's great. >> the retail cost is $34,000. >> not so fantastic. >> the governor of kentucky says he exposed his nine children to chickenpox rather than have them

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serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. here's to you. we are following two big headlines this morning. let's bring in our medical contributor dr. campbell. we won't have time to diagnose

the president this morning, we'll put it aside. i want to ask you of the new drug of the post-partum depressi depression. that can be impactful for women. apparently this drug is so expensive. >> it is. what's exciting about the drug is it is the first drug ever to be approved by the fda specifically for post-partum depression, moderate and severe. it works really quickly of all the drugs that may be used, works within two days. the problem is you have to be in the hospital for 2.5 days and it is expensive. >> why would this be applicable across the board for depression. that's so fascinating. >> post-partum depression is linked to and part of big depression that we know of already. >> okay. will the price go down at some point? >> well, it will start being

covered by insurance companies most certainly. medicaid covers half of all the births in the united states. so if we can get medicaid to cover and private insurance companies to cover it, it would be a long way to help the one and nine women per childbirth that have post partum depression. >> another fascinating story, you looked into the governor of kentucky intentionally exposing his children to chickenpox. why did he do that? do you think that's okay to do? >> he did it and in a well reason thoughtful personal decision for him and his family. it is not an approach that's agreed upon by all of the doctors across the country including me. the problem is that by exposing his children to chickenpox, they got the disease. at that time, the disease can cause serious complications and

side effects. that's not the case for the vaccine. chickenpox vaccine came out in the mid-90s. it covers chickenpox in a way that can allow people to never have the disease. it is a problem. >> the vaccine is proven to be safe. he was doing this to avoid the vaccine? >> he was doing this for his own personal reasons that he would have to speak to. he did it for his nine children, four of whom who he adopted. it flies in the face of public health recommendations and flies in the face of what doctors recommend for their patients. >> the bigger issue with vaccine, as a public figure, would you be concerned that others would follow? >> he is concerned about his family and his constituents. by being concerned, he wants to make sure everybody has health

and everybody is safe. he did that for his own family. there is a rub there between what message has to come out in the public health arena. >> dr. dave campbell, thank you very much. we'll be following all day here on msnbc, whether or not the mueller report is going to be released, that's the big story of the morning. that does it for us, stephanie ruhle pi ruhle, picks up all those stories. >> this rmorning zeroing in speculation growth that the mueller report could dropped any moment. james comey of what he hopes to learn from the report. president trump continues. >> for two years we got to this nonsense, there is no collusion with russia. there is no obstruction. >> com