that is a wrap for me on this hour. see you at noon eastern. stay where you are, it's time for "up" with david gura. >> this is a special edition of "up." 647 days after robert mueller began his investigation into the russian government and donald trump's campaign, the investigation has finished. >> the long awaited mueller report has just been submitted. >> the attorney general is reviewing and will give those conclusions to congress. >> the mueller probe is officially over. >> according to senior justice department official, robert mueller is not recommending anymore indictments. >> if there were other sealed indictments, we would expect them to be unsealed soon.

>> it's up to the attorney general, william barr to see side how much should be made public. he says he could convey principal conclusions this weekend. now, democrats are planning their next steps. >> the mueller report, which was handed to the attorney general must be made public in its entirety. >> this saturday, march 23, after seven guilty pleas and 34 individuals indicted, the next stage of the russia investigation begins. >> attorney general barr is not streaming netflix tonight. he is reading something that will shape who we are. >> up with me, elliott williams, deputy assistant general, rena shaw, with the women's public leadership network and from washington, ken and intelligence reporter along with chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney and doj official, now an msnbc

contributor. ken, let me start with you. walk through what happened yesterday and where things stand at this point. late in the afternoon, friday, we got word this report, long awaited report was transmitted to the attorney general. where is it now? what is happening now, over the course of the weekend? >> david, attorney general barr said in a letter, he would brief key members of congress on the principle conclusions in the report as soon as this weekend. we may hear something as soon as today about the decisions to decline prosecution by robert mueller. he also said, in the letter, which gives a clue about the breath and length of the report, there are other parts of the report that he would confer with lawyers and congressional officials what, if anything, he can make public. that suggests and me reporting tells me there's a lengthy, classified annex to the report. it's a detailed narrative. there's speculation he would write a bare bones, summary of

who he decided not to prosecute. we think there's more than that. tom winters says they have been writing it since august. a lot is left to be learned of what is left in the report, in terms of the drum. every news organization and doj beat reporter was on pins and needles knowing the report was imminent, but hard to report why we knew that. people were puzzled and questioning, really. i saw traffic on twitter, not willing to believe mueller completed the investigation even though nbc news reported in december he was winding down. then, finally at 5:00, word came down, we saw julie outside the justice department delivering the news and, really, a dramatic ending in the sense that robert mueller has not charged anyone close to donald trump with conspiracy with the russian election interference effort.

>> chuck, rosenberg, let's turn to you. walk us through what is going on this weekend in finer detail, if you would. the attorney general is going to wa weigh redaxs here. what else is off the table? what is a disqualifier in terms of what can be made available to the media and the public? >> ken touched on one, classified information. of course you can redact some of it or declassify it. that's a cumbersome process and you have to be thoughtful about it. other categories that are not released to the public. grand jury information, matters pertaining to grand jury testimony typically can't be released unless a federal judge says it's okay to do so. information to exonerates other people. typically, we do not make public information that clears or exonerates people under investigation. that makes sense for privacy

reasons. then, a final category that i think is really important, information about ongoing investigations. we know there are ongoing investigations, including by federal prosecutors in manhattan in the southern district of new york. so, we don't want to make that public, either, because it can undermine or upset those investigative efforts. by the way, as i was yammering away, david, one other category, executive privilege. information the president claims is executive privilege. these are all issues bill barr needs to work through. >> you listen to all that, all those categories, you see in this letter from bill barr that principal conclusions could be conveyed this weekend. that seems awfully fast. what does that say to you about timing? >> it seems like he is moving with some deliberate speed. it is interesting. he could have said two weeks and we would have said you probably

need that much time to review this. he made a commitment and left himself wiggle room. i don't have the language in fronlt of me, but act in the interest of transparency to the extent allowable by law. will he honor that commitment? which direction will he fall down on? i hope, chuck will hope and many of us who care about the justice department hope he will act in the public interest here. i think and hope he will. look, congress voted 420-nothing, a very partisan congress to see the findings of this made public. this is a message of hope for the attorney general. that's where, i think, we are at this morning. this is his chance. you know, to demonstrate faith in the rule of law and the stability of our institutions. >> chuck, when you look at bob mueller's background, what he has done and prepared, is there

a chance of how quickly this might be accomplished? bob mueller might have two versions of this report, one baked and ready to go to lawmakers? >> it's possible, david. it wouldn't be the first time we have prepared a classified version and unclassified version of a report. here is what i do know, having worked with bob mueller at the fbi. he is a model or discretion and what you saw is a highly dignified and professional investigation. it will be a comprehensive report, i'm confident of that. i don't think he is going to leave anything out. really, the hard issue, as elliott was describing now swivels to bill barr what can and cannot be released. bob mueller and his team, i am confident gave him a comprehensive rendition of what happened. >> rena, you were part of that collective breath holding in

washington, d.c. that ken was describing a moment ago. speak to this as a pivot point. to my mind we had seen a change in narrative. a long period of time which this was the be all, end all, the completion of this report and we see it. there's been an evolution in thinking about this the whole investigation. >> there has been an evolution. we have shrunk in size and believe this was going to be it for us. i'm still on the edge of my seat because this is not it. the explosive evidence we need isn't known yet. what we are sitting on is a ton of speculation and rnc declaring victory. it felt like high school to me. nah, nah, we told you so. what is happening is the president is winning because he hasn't interfered. bill barr, to his credit, ran things very nicely, i think. what's happening now, the rnc

declaring victory saying the president is a good guy, there's nothing more to see here. it sets the stage for them to be disappointed. political ramifications are severe when we learn what is in the report. it gives a large body of evidence. we are just in a moment. we are in a moment. it's not a pivot point, yet, for us. >> ken, what is the battleground, such as it is look like. i look at charlie savage's piece saying we are facing epic institutional battle in washington, d.c. do you agree with your friend as he describes what is next in washington? >> in a sense. in terms of whether the president can declare victory on collusion depends on what the report says. the way i think about it, what we know is robert mueller did not find the evidence for criminal conspiracy. that's a high bar. there could be a lay definition of collusion that is laid out in this report that shows donald trump and the trump campaign was

essentially compromised bay foreign adversary. they opened themselves up as being manipulated as a sophisticated effort with the russians. that could be bad or impeachable if the fact pattern is strong enough. if i were donald trump and the people around him, i wouldn't be declaring sweeping victory just yet. there are other investigations. they are not about russia, to be clear. there will be no more russia indictments, as far as we know. there are other matters that may refer to public constructirrupt counter intelligence. the question about whether donald trump or anyone around him is under the influence or compromised by a foreign power. that's a different question than crimes. often those investigations don't result in criminal charges. in the house of representatives, adam schiff answered that question. >> chuck, last question to you, there was a remarkable moment on rachel's show last night as she

got the water out of her galoshes and came back to talk to you. the fact there aren't more indictments from bob mueller doesn't say a lot. there could be a lot yet to come. walk us through that. walk us through what bob mueller had with all the investigations ta taking place and this report, when lawmakers see it is going to provide a road map, atlas to the investigations in new york, florida and other jurisdictions around the country. >> david, bob mueller had a narrow look at russian interference in the 2016 election and links to the people on the trump campaign. what the southern district of new york and other federal prosecutors are doing is playing on a court to use on march madness basketball -- >> fair enough. >> they are playing on a court that is longer and wider. so, in terms of the trump organization, the inaugural committee, the trump foundation and financial fraud, including,

i think critically information related to campaign finance fraud. those federal prosecutors in manhattan where you are now have a lot more running room. i think it's really important to keep two things in mind, ken's point about counter intelligence investigation is very important. that does not always lead to criminal charges, but leads to important information about our adversaries and what they are trying to do to us. what federal prosecutors, elsewhere can do is look deeply at the financial fraud matters that the mueller team seemed to avoid and properly so. i think there's more to come, perhaps not from mueller, but more to come. >> i'll go to you lastly. if you have this basketball game taking place, you have bill barr, the coach of the team. he has latitude to pull players from the court. how worried are you that he could stymie or change the role they are playing?

>> that would be remarkable for an attorney general to start tinkering with staffing at this. if we are in conspiracy theory mode, yes, possibly. no, i don't think that's incredibly likely. i want to piggy back on the point ken made. it's a high standard to charge someone in the first place to reach probable cause to reach a charge and the standard to convict someone is higher than that. the mere fact you couldn't charge it or convict someone doesn't mean a president of the united states or campaign ought to have been engaging in it. what we may have found is there may not have been crimes committed, but was it the exercise of judgment that either the president or campaign -- if i'm investigating you for arson and discover in the course of that you were verbally abusive to your children, david, perhaps i could charge you with it. that's information people around you ought to know about and people who are adjudicating your

moral conduct ought to know about. we are hung up on, was there a crime or not? that's not necessarily the inquiry here with the conduct of the president of the united states. >> we're going to come back. coming up, the president's reaction to robert mueller's report. kelly o'donnell with president trump in mar-a-lago. she is going to join us next. m. she is going to join us next ♪ [laughter] ♪ ♪

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welcome back to "up," i'm david gura. president trump is spending the weekend in mar-a-lago. he just arrived when news broke robert mueller's investigation came to a close. this is all we have heard so far from the white house, the next steps are up to attorney general barr. we look forward to the process taking its course. the white house has not received or been briefed on the special counsel's report. on the heels of that, a statement from ray sekulow and rudy giuliani, we're pleased that the office of special counsel has delivered its report to the attorney general. elliott williams back with me along with jonathan la muir. matt miller is a former spokesman for the justice department and msnbc analyst. in west palm beach, white house correspondent, kelly o'donnell.

walk us through what we have heard in that statement, unofficially from the white house about the report and what to expect during this weekend in florida. i know there's nothing official on the president's schedule today. >> reporter: well, david, what is notable about what we have heard so far is the tone and quality of what has been said. this is not the bombastic trump white house that, at times, lashed out at the investigation or criticized its even existence or integrity of that involved. none of that playing out, so far. these are muted responses that go by the book. the white house framing itself as an observer in the process saying this is the work of william barr, the president's choice to be attorney general, one of the newest members of the cabinet and that there has been no behind-the-scenes communeuation from barr to the white house. that is what they are saying. rudy giuliani, one of the president's personal outside lawyers says to me, the president, thus far, does not

have a personal comment to offer, leading to the sarah sanders statement which you read. they are putting a bit of distance. we have also been watching the president's twitter feed, a place where he normally lets whatever is on his mind come out to all his followers. that has been dormant. at this point, one of the things we are looking for today, what are the next steps? it is notable the president traveled here to florida with a larger footprint of staff than we typically see intended to be about golf and relaxation. he brought two top lawyers from ideas white house, inside the white house, those are government lawyers who would be a part of whatever next steps would take place and there was also a larger footprint of the communication staff. that is an indication they prepared for this and may be preparing for the next things. one thing to point out, house democrats do have something planned today. they will be holding a

conference call this afternoon led by speaker pelosi and representative hakeem jeffries, the caucus chair and chairman for house investigations that might pick up where the robert mueller team left off. so, that will generate at least some conversations within the democratic caucus and, perhaps, that will prompt something from the white house. we'll have to see. david? >> things moving quickly. talking about jay sekulow and rudy giuliani. there was a time when there was a lot of bombast, rudy giuliani talking about the counter report he was preparing and was going to throw on the table when this came out. what is your sense of the tact the president's personal attorneys are taking at this point? the silence is uncharacteristic, as kelly said. >> let's see how long this period of calm lasts. yesterday, i spoke to giuliani after the report came out. he said to me, they hope they

would get an early look at it. the white house wanted to get a sense of it. after we published the comments, he backtracked. we defer to the attorney general. that was not a new statement. he said that repeatedly. in one statement, he said they should get an opportunity to review it and correct it. right now, they are trying to stay on one message here. as kelly said, trying to distance themselves from the process a little bit. you know, the president stayed quiet. he huddled with lawyers last night. we anticipate more updates today. we don't know if he will finally turn to twitter and let loose on his feelings. when he left the white house, before the report was turned over, he labeled it a witch hunt and said it was bad for the country. people around the president suggested if this doesn't have that smoking gun, that bombshell of collusion, the phone calls

between trump and putin, they will take it and run as a victory lap. they will suggest the entire matter, he's been exonerated, ignoring the indictments and therefore, he can take it and use it as a political weapon. hey, i have been cleared. democrats knock it off. you are being partisan. >> maths, i want to get to you. picking up on the news kelly o'donnell announced, house democrats getting together by foen to talk about their path forward. the course of the last 15-20 minutes, things are moving very quickly here. there's a note in the letter from bill barr we could get at least broad strokes conclusions this weekend, now this announcement there's a phone call for a path forward for democrats coming up. >> look, democrats are going to push for the most transparency possible. i suspect they are nervous looking at the language of barr's letter. not releasing the initial findings, but the report. he is going to release or look

at law, regulation and the department's long standing practice. it involves information. the department's long standing practices and policies can be read anyway barr wanlts to do i. if it includes decisions of who the special counsel declined to prosecute, which i suspect it will. he can decline any information that is derogatory about individuals close to the president or the president himself. if you are a democrat in congress, you are asking for political reasons, but institutional reasons to see not just the report but the underlying information. the justice department said it is congress, not the justice department that is the arbitor. if it's tru, you have to give us information you have about the president's conduct to exercise

our constitutional oversight duties. >> quickly, we have 30 seconds. is there a sense giuliani and sekulow are waiting to reap what they have sown? there's going to be a legacy to what they have sown, the discord? >> the discord of that and what the president as sown. the president attacked the fact that rod and mueller weren't elected officials. it's more 2020 strategy than a legal one. the damage is done. they might have made a statement to contract the language and the law, consistent with regulations. come on, that was an empty gesture from folks who spent two years dirtying up law enforcement and the institution of the justice department. >> thanks to kelly o'donnell in west palm beach, traveling with the president. she will bring updates as she gets them. bill barr has mueller's

report. joining me is democratic vice chair pramila jayapal. ic vice chair pramila jayapal. if you have moderate to severe psoriasis

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a chorus of calls -- i'm going to read from a statement from pelosi and schumer. the american people have the right for truth. the watch word is transparency. here is how the next steps are described in the new york times. the making of the epic institutional value to keep information secret from congress started to take shape on friday. joining me now is congressman prim la jayapal a member of the house judiciary committee. thank you for your time. i want to start with what my colleague kelly o'donnell reported. there's going to be a phone call. what do you expect to hear? >> the phone calls are to make sure everybody is in the same place in terms of what we know and what our strategy is, i on

the judiciary committee and we in the judiciary committee have been in touch over the weeks and months of what is coming forward. we know, first of all, the most important thing is the mueller report needs to be released in its entirety. we understand there are certain pieces there that may need to only be presented to congress and not to the public. but, really, the public has a right to know what is in this report, not just the overall conclusions that attorney general barr is talking about, but actually the underlying information. i think, second on the judiciary committee, we have been clear, the mueller report is a key part, but only a part of the ongoing investigations that we, in the judiciary committee have a responsibility to conduct. that includes into obstruction of justice, public corruption and abuse of power. those investigations will continue. finally, i think it's really important to take a moment to

reflect on a 22-month investigation that has produced 34 public indictments, including seven guilty pleas, including six of those guilty pleas directly related to top trump campaign officials committing crimes. i just think that, you know, we have to be clear about the incredible responsibility we have to our constitution, and to the office of the presidency as we look at all this information and continue our investigations. >> you mention that strategy. i wonder how much unity there is among democrats at this point? what is your goal? is it to see the report in full? to get bob mueller before the judiciary committee to testify? >> it is absolutely to see the report in full. we need that information. it's important. bob mueller is a very credible individual. he spent a lot of time and came up with a lot of pieces of information that are relevant to

our responsibilities on judiciary. i think, also, you know, as you may know, we launched an investigation chairman nadler and the house democrats, 81 pieces of information we were seeking. they are pieces of information that have already been provided, say, for example, to the southern district of new york. in other cases that are ongoing. remember, just because bob mueller may not be recommends indictments, we don't know that for sure, there are pieces that he has almost farmed out to other places that we need to get the information on. and, we, the judiciary committee need to call forward witnesses to continue our massive investigation into all these different pieces that are related to the constitution and that really our committee has jurisdiction over. >> i'm glad you took us there. felix is going to sit down in front of your committee, he's scheduled to.

it's been moved at least one time. how has the transmission of this report changed to a hearing of that one? >> again, the report is going to have very important information. we need to look at that information. it's not sufficient for the attorney general to say he is going to brief us. we theneed to see the entire th. there are pieces in that report that will be relevant to our investigations. the justice department can't have it both ways, or the president to have it both ways, if it is long-standing policy, we don't agree with this. if they are claiming there's long-standing policy you can't indict a sitting president, but there's information within this that allows us, congress, to do our job in deciding what role the president has had or what crimes may have been committed, then it is important for us to be able to see all that information, to make the determination one way or another. very important for the public as well to know what this

president's role has been, what potential violations of the constitution or lack thereof, may be here. this is critical to our democracy. >> lastly, i'm looking at this one-page letter sent to your committee and the ranking member announcing this happened. i want to get a sense of your estimation, the way you hold bill barr in your estimation in light of this letter saying mueller didn't encounter interference and intends to have transparency and work with mueller going forward with what to release. give your sense to the american people how much confidence you have in the attorney general. >> i want to trust the attorney general is going to be completely transparent with the american public. there have been statements he made in the past that make me nervous about that. at this point, i am believing that the attorney general is going to release all of this information and that he is on the side of our constitution, on

the side of the american people and not displaying undue loyalty toward the president. republicans, frankly, have really undermined whatever long standing precedent may have been around the release of information to the public, as we saw with devin nunes, you know, 800,000 pages of hillary clinton's e-mails and going back to watergate. there is real precedent for this attorney general to do exactly what he should do and that is release this report to congress and to the american people. >> congresswoman, thank you, again, for your time on this. thank you for joining us, the vice chair of the house democratic caucus. in the letter, the attorney general said he may advise congress on the conclusions as soon as this weekend, given what he says in that letter and what he said in his confirmation hearing. there's concern about bill barr's next move. we are going to dig into that and what mueller's report could look like, next. mueller's repo look like, next. al security ale? it's a free alert if we find your social

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welcome back. special counsel robert mueller completed his mandate and bill barr is responsible for writing his own summary of the findings. we know little about the report. an official quoted in the "washington post" described the it as comprehensive. we don't know what form the document takes, how many pages

comprise it. we don't know when we will learn about it. how mueller imagines his role and how barr imagines his. tom winter is back with us, rinashah with us as well. he walked through seven scenarios from the most detailed to the least. it could be a couple sentences saying he done what he needed to do. what is your sense? what is he looking for to give you a sense of what it could take? >> the basic level. what he is required to have reported is the people he indicted and if he declined to indict somebody and there was behavior or evidence that led up to that. as far as the people indicted, there's no surprise there. i can tell you what that report looks like now. nobody is going to give me credit because it's in the public. the second part, was there a reason they could not bring forward a prosecution even though they found evidence? is that because of a statute of

limitations issue? doubtful in this case because we are talking active they occurred in 2016. that was the mandate so doubtful that was a reason. the second reason, is there a policy that prohibited him from indicting somebody, we are talking specifically about the president. however, i would caution folks on that. the justice department has shown no hesitation in putting in the president as individual one as somebody who is not indicted but named in a document. so, you would think it wasn't just the president alone, if there was collusion or coordination is really the term we should be using. if there was coordination, we would expect other people would be involved in that and indicted. it's doubtful, but that is a possibility. the third thing is, was there information that a foreign government did not help or provide with? i'm not speaking just of russia. was there information they felt like, if we had gotten this,

this person would be indicted? if it were not for that, would this person be indicted? those are a couple scenarios i can see as far as information being there. hey, we found this, but declined to prosecute a particular individual or scheme. so, that's what we could see on that side of it. anything else besides that are things that are effectively extra credit for mueller. he does not necessarily need to put in a report, however, since they have been working on it, my understanding is since late august, it's more than four or five summary pages along the lines of what i described. >> i have had this on my desk for a while. this is the initial hoarder, mueller getting the gig. he can look into matters that may have arose or arise from the investigation. there are all these veins we have open questions about. the gulf states and their role in this. when you think about this report, what is or are the

unanswered questions you have? >> there are so many. many may have gone to other prosecutors offices as well. again, we are focused on mueller being done with the report. the thing is the gulf states question is a big one. a number of other coughers. what have we learned from felix? there's more there. the biggest question is, what other prosecutors offices are looking at things that may have been spun off from this report? so, yes, this is a bit of a conclusion, but i think it's a very open ended one. we don't know where things end up after this. >> there's a vivid description of what's gone on almost two years. ashley parker saying this has been the ominous elevator music of donald trump's presidency. always going, invariably haunting. we have been talking about that. >> sure. >> how much does this quiet the president, versus move us to the

symphony mode? >> he can catch his breath. what does that mean? nothing. at this point, where i'm at, a moment of profound sadness because i fear that the spin off, if these indictments go to other offices, other agencies, whatever it may be, what does it mean for the average american? i think of the woman in hoomaha. what does it mean to her? there's an erosion of trust led by this president. what does it mean after today, unless i get something explosive, i can't go back to the republicans and say, look, there's a gotcha here. i fear, unless we see it in the investigative report, it's not a legal report, it's an investigative report that lays out facts. there's going to be a lot of spin from both sides. unless we see a smoking gun, this does nothing. >> that's not a failure of the

report -- >> no, no. >> that's the success of the president. >> that's what i mean. my role has been to work against that, to prove this is wrong. this is not about e-mails and using nonofficial channels to communicate official business of our government. this is a foreign adversary's role. that's what's been lost here. is it a pivot point? not at all. we are waiting for the explosive smoking gun and we have to see the evidence. >> there may not be an explosive smoking gun. the idea if there was coordination is not gone. we need to keep mind to that as well. >> we are going to come back in a moment. there was a great tweet on the campaign trail. this could come out and he tweets, i could report at this coffee shop, people are still drinking coffee and playing uno. no further indictments according to a doj official. the consensus is several of president trump's associates and members of his family should not

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he. he. >> . put it all out there. put it all out there. how about don't redact anything.

>> let me be very clear. i did not collude with russia nor do i know of anyone else in the campaign who did so. >> there's nothing there. yet it's created weeks and weeks and months of headlines. so no, i have zero concern. >> that is president trump's family there. a department of justice official say robert mueller is not going to recommend any more indictments and that has given some of the president's supporters reason to celebrate. but is he and is his family clear? tom, we've been talking about the other investigations happening outside bob mueller's jurisdiction. how much of a sigh of relief should they breathe? >> well, i think let's focus on what the investigations are about and then we can da dues from there whether or not the family members should be concerned or anybody else should be concerned. the investigations as we understand it are a couple of main ones. one, the ongoing investigation and individuals involving the

trump organization, so that's people that have worked for the president for any number of years. some for t some for the, you know, totality of their careers. those are people like allen wiselberg, people that michael cohen rattled off. it's the names of those surrounding the trump organization. the second thing is, who is a major part of the trump organization? well, the president's family. his kids. so is there any cripple alty that was done there? so that is lane one. lane two is the trump inaugural. it's not clear how much the president's children had a role in that. but that's something that is definitely being investigated. whether the investigation is centered around illegal investigations? you donate and say it came from me, that is legal. so they're going to look into that or any other of the bank

fraud. so we know those investigations are going on. there's businesses in ukraine and they're looking at that. there's some ongoing definitions here that get to the heart of this. >> the scrutiny continues here. just this week, there is a new look that we're taking at jared kushner based on his activity of whatsapp. >> there are many issues here and certainly the white house did breathe a sigh of relief. there's still some concern. people around the president know the issues this poses. we thought the white house and the president's attorneys held their tongues. the victory trump that a lot of

trump allies are taking on this. but they say by some we're out of the woods yet. the worst is over for us. but the there will be other investigations coming in the weeks and months ahead. >> matt, you worked for the justice department. this was something that came out very early after we got word that this report had been transmitted that there would be no more indictments on their way. what does that say to you? >> i think the press office, the senior officials were trying to just answer as many questions as possible and not have endless rounds of speculation. is this over but not really over? they were trying to tell people that very much it is over as far as bob mueller is concerned, there won't be any indictments. there's been a lot of speculation about indictments having already been filed and being unsealed. to answer your original question, i think that people in

the president's family ought to have a big sigh of relief today. there were concerns that donald trump jr. was going to be charged either for his participation in that trump tower meeting or for lying to congress about either the trump tower moscow activities or his meetings with other foreign intermediaries. that is clearly not going to happen. but i would make that a temporary sigh of relief. he was the one that signed some of the check toes michael cohen as part of that fraudulent reimbursement scheme to some of the hush money payments to stormy daniels. we don't know whether he was just signing the checks because that's his job at the trump organization or whether he knew the entire underlying scheme. but if i were him, i wouldn't be breathing the final sigh of relief sdny report. >> no, look, every individual organization you name, donald trump jr., jared kushner, ivanka trump, the trump organization, they are all the subjects or

targets of those who want to be interviewed by congress. let's not forget in all of this that congress is a coequal branch of government whose goal it is to investigate abuses by the president and so on. and they've already committed to doing so and put the documents requests out there and so on. now, they may resist and not show up or whatever and that will lead to a long legal battle. but yes, maybe there's a slight sigh of relief, a temporary one as matt said over being charged. but that doesn't mean they'll be subpoenaed to testify at a broader hearing. >> all of this continues. jonathan lamere, matt miller, thank you very much all for being with me here in new york. he submitted his report, but he's still going to show up at the office. what is next for bob mueller and what do we know about how he will assist attorney general bill barr? assist attorney genel bill barr? the all-new 2019 ford ranger, it's the right gear. with a terrain management system for... this.

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this is a special edition of "up." i'm david gura. at a pivot point, robert mueller's investigation has come to an end and now new political battles again. congressional democrats ramping up their demands for attorney general bill barr to release the special counsel's report in its entirety. for one year, 10 months and six days, robert mueller has loomed large over washington. we have been waiting for him to complete an investigation into potential links between the russian government and donald trump's campaign. well, now the focus shifts to

the attorney general who has a copy of what the special counsel discovered. bill barr sent a letter, one page in length, to lawmakers after he got that report. and it's likely things will now get complicated. quote, i intend to consult with deputy attorney general rod rosenstein and special counsel robert mueller, he writes, to determine what other information from the report can be released to congress and the public consistent with the law. well, president trump who is ensconced in hs florida resort this weekend took a swipe at the investigation before he left washington. it was, it turned out, a last opportunity to use some of his favorite talking points before we learn the special counsel's report had been transmitted to the attorney general. >> we'll see what happens. there was no collusion. there was no obstruction. everybody knows it. it's all a big hoax. it's -- i call it the witch-hunt. it's all a big hoax. so we'll see what happens. i know the attorney general highly reallied ultimately will

make a decision. >> last night and overnight president trump has been quiet after last week's torent of tweets, nothing. let's take stock over that investigation. 34 people have been charged, rocketer mueller secured seven guilty pleas from five people in close proximity to the president of the united states, including his former campaign chairman and his personal attorney. western learned a lot about the russian campaign to influence the election. joining me now, glenn kirschner, clint watts and if phillipe brian along with benjamin woodis who joins us from wauts. lint, give us your sense of where things stand at this

point. the your sense of where things stand, how much we're going to see of this report. >> i really don't know how much they will be forthcoming, but i think barr, mueller knew a clock would hit as soon as that report hit. they have a plan in place and it's very smart from ag bar's perspective to go ahead and do this phone call and get out in front of it immediately. there are still investigations going on. so bar will do the initial meetings for a layout, probably hearing some initial findings

and then he'll probably set a schedule with them. i think the key question is anybody that is not charged with an indictment, will they show any evidence related to those individuals or will it still stay behind closed doors? this is going to frustrate the democrats, this will make the public go crazy because they want full transparency. and we already heard this from rod rosenstein. if someone is not indicted, we respect their right to privacy and we're not going the implicate them with evidence that you would not bring a charge or an indictment. >> ben, let me turn to you. you write that things look a heck of a lot like they did yesterday. there are some changes. we don't have doughnuts on the table here and the background looks different from where i sit today. but help us understand your perspective on this, if you would. we know this has been transmitted, but what, in fact, has changed? >> i was sort of joking in the piece, but only sort of. yesterday we didn't know what bob mueller had found. we didn't know what he had

concluded about collusion and what he had concluded about obstruction of justice. tt after the end of the investigation, we don't know what bob mueller has found, we don't know what he has concluded about collusion and we don't know what he has concluded about obstruction. so what we know, and i think this is a profound difference, but it is a subtle difference, is that he has decided and we sort of suspected this yesterday, but we now know it. he decided whatever he has found above and beyond the indictments, he's already issued. he's going to deal with in a fashion other than additional criminal indictments and that subtly shifts the conversation from what will bob mueller do to what did bob mueller write. and that is an important, if subtle, change in the sort of mystery that confronts us as a society. >> alexa, ben is talking about

the known unknowns to borrow the phrase from don rumsfeld. and we've known the unknowns for a long time here. what is your sense of how this changes the landscape in washington? >> i think clint braup up a good point earlier, whether it's house democrats saying we want all this information or that's president trump. sean hannity's show had a banner that said collusion/dilution. so they're out there getting ahead of this as soon as it's over trying to claim victory. i think if anything, despite the known unknowns, the tea leaves that people are referring to and that we've been following for almost two years, in spite of all that. i think unfortunately we're at a moment where it feels politically paralyzed or like the two sides are going to believe whatever they want with

regard to had report, even if it shows that the president has done anything wrong. i think he's going to do whatever he can to say it's fake news and the president will claim victory. i think that there are no new indictments, it allows him to continue to say this is a witch-hunt. >> things are moving at a break neck speed. you look at that letter that bill barr wrote to the heads of those committees. he said they could learn the broad strokes of what's in that report this weekend. as i mentioned, there is a conference call happening this afternoon. things aren't moving quickly here. who knows if we'll see a report in whatever format we see it. >> we still have institutions in play here. i do think that we are now going to see this matter move from the special counsel investigation to congress and to the main department of justice in all of its field offices, just as the

pentagon is sort of -- has control over the military, then we have troops in the field. we have the department of justice and then we have the u.s. attorney's offices, which are the field through prosecutors. i wevent to sleep last night with cognitive dissonance and i woke up with cognitive dissonance this morning. i was so heartened by the sentence in there that told us, bob mueller was denied nothing, no investigative avenue. he wanted to go down, he went down them. so i think because it looks like the process was full and fair, we can have confidence in bob mueller's results. but then, on the other hand, how can it be that we've gotten to the bottom of potential russian collusion when bob mueller didn't, by all accounts, subpoena donald trump jr., subpoena jared kushner to figure out definitively what went on in the trump tower meeting? it's not because bob mueller forgot and he wants to pull the

report back from bar and say, whoa, whoa, i still need to talk to some of the most important players on the topic of russian collusion. i'm confident that if we see the report, hopefully we'll see some of all of it and hopefully those questions will be answered. >> on the investigative side of this over these last almost two years, bob mueller has been expert at keeping this under wraps. we have that tmz style photo of him going to work at 4:30 or whatever it is. looming large, but we don't know much about him and his work. how do you see the sky is changing now as a result? what happens now that politics moves to the fore? >> he's been cop, he's been lawyer, he's been shrink, he's been priest, he's been basically the country's blank vessel for hope for many. and he's done and i think that's going to be an unnerving feeling for many. but i think to put this in terms

of the tension, i look at things very sophisticated lens of television. >> thank you. >> and i'll use an nbc tie-in. in our criminal justice system, we had two separate and important groups, the police who investigate crimes and the district attorneys who prosecute them. these are their stories. dun, dun. thank you. glenn didn't know what the hell i was doing. >> i still don't, but keep going. >> bob mueller, for his part, he has investigated, he's turned over -- first of you a, i'm not going to believe a single word of what he's turned over until i read them. right now, it is bob through bob barr. >> bill barr. >> any bar. >> that is your bar. >> and trump, while he's in mar-a-lago, while he's waiting to get his hands on it, we're not going to see this for real until we see it for real.

in this case, the district attorney, most importantly, congress, you know, thank god this is the portion of the show where i say thank god for the more than 100 million americans who turned out in record numbers in the midterms to give the house of representatives control over the democrats. because there are tons of things now that they are going to now look into. who did bob mueller speak to? who didn't bob mueller speak to? did he ask to speak to mike pence? did mike pence say no? what follow-up questions did he ask donald trump? that is the way it's supposed to work. now let's see, we know donald trump would not speak to him. he said 460 days ago, i look forward to speaking to him. they never did. maybe it's time for congress to

speak to donald trump. and it's congress's turn now to talk to bob mueller, to hear from him exactly what he has to say. >> coming up, reaction from democrats running for president as they crisscross the country on this saturday morning. they y on this saturday morning that report needs to be made public. and the white house should not be allowed to interfere in any way in interpreting our presenting the information to the american people. you're having one more bite

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this report must be released. this isn't just about politics. it's about our democracy. >> i want to make sure that that report is released. >> that report needs to be made public. >> welcome back. i'm david gura. the candidates looking for transparency, we are getting reaction from republican lawmakers. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell saying the attorney general has said he intends to provide as much information as possible. i sincerely hope he will do so as soon as he can and with as much openness and transparency as possible. the focus will shift to the other open investigations in congress. there are many separate house and senate committee investigations into the president and his feelings currently under way. we got a hint of what's next from the chair of the house judiciary committee, jerry nadler. >> the mueller report concerns only crimes that may have been

committed. our constitutional mandate is to look at -- is to maintain the rule of law, which means examining not only crimes, but other abuses of power and obstructions of justice. >> felix sader is expected to publicly testify before congress next week to discuss his role in trump tower moscow. i want to bring in nbc's garrett hague now. he's in south carolina's low cut on the shrimp and grits trail with beto o'rourke. garrett, let me start with you. i'm interested in what beto o'rourke has had to say about the transmission of this report, but give us a sense more broadly of what we've heard from the democratic candidates over the last 18 hours or so. >> well, david, the democratic candidates have been essentially unanimous in their view that the report needs to be made public, all of it, and as quickly as possible. o'rourke told reporters this yesterday afternoon after his last stop here in charleston.

we heard the same things from kamala harris, cory booker, folks on the judiciary committee in the u.s. senate so may get more say than others in this. some of the candidates said it's not enough to get the report. they want either mueller or barr himself to come and testify as to what's in it. it speaks to the degree of trust that people have in robert mueller or the lack of trust of anything donald trump touches. barr got no support in the judiciary committee. democrats are still wary that he's going to be a clean dealer in this. they want to make sure that what is in the report, that mueller gave to barr, is exactly what gets to the public. and they're willing to go with almost any mechanism to make sure that happens, including subpoenas to get these folks in front of these committees to testify on the results of that report. >> it was well telegraphed what was going to happen. we didn't know when it was going to happen, but we knew there

would be a report transmitted and we would get a word that that is what happened. so there is that. when you look to capitol hill and the response that we've seen, yes, from those who were running for president but others, how well planned for and projected was that, do you think? >> i think it's been plenty prepared for because they've been, you know, waiting for this to happen, right? it was just a matter of when, as we all discussed. i think at this point, again, the preparations were already there. they know this president has been under investigation. and then you have the president saying things like, well, no other president this would happen to because no one else could handle it. i don't even know what that means. you know, it's not encouraged that presidents be under investigation so i don't know why he's proud of this. but this is something that his opponents can take to the campaign trail and say this is a huge issue. regardless of what is in the report, which we'll find out in the coming days and weeks whether or not he did obstruct justice, whether or not putin did sway him at all, whether or

not these things continue to happen. especially as he said yesterday sanctions on south korea are no longer going to happen or north korea because kim jong-un is the best. things like that are very bizarre and unpredictable. however, this investigation was always predictable. so i do think this is fodder for the campaign trail, obviously for his opponents and will continue to be throughout the 2020 election. >> alexa, you've been in iowa, you've talked to voters there. my sense, from talking to you and other reporters, is that this investigation hasn't been first, second or third in order of what candidates are talking about on the campaign trail. >> not at all. >> does this change now that this report has been tendered in the way that it has? has garrett said, we've heard from all the candidates reacting to it. do you expect it to change the conversation on the campaign trail? >> i think it will change the conversation on the campaign trail, for sure. we're seeing that happen as you mentioned as garrett laid out. i think it's a matter of how long that will be sustained. before now, the candidates didn't have a reason to talk

about the mueller report or the mueller investigation. to be clear, people on the campaign trail, voters are not asking candidates about the investigation. they care about immigration and health care, climate change, the environment, they're worried about paying for different things and the economy and the direction of things. but something that just came up is this desire among voters not to have so many unanswered questions. they are tired of the lies, they are tired of all these things coming out. i think the mueller report gives an opportunity for candidates running for president to address those fears and worries and exasperations of not knowing what's happening with the president of the united states. and it gives them a chance to change the message of what democrats both in the house and senate have been pushing for so long, but about the fact that they can paint themselves as the honest, straightforward, transparent candidate to be the next president of the united states. >> garrett, i turn back to you.

when you're not on the campaign trail, you're covering congress. and i keep coming back to this issue of unanimity among democrats. they're going to get on this conference call today, 3:00, to talk about what their strategy is. how much agreement is there as you talk to members of congress on capitol hill about what they would like to see happen next now that this report has been transmitted? allow me a point of privilege here. this is not something that at least the o'rourke campaign goes out of its way to talk about. it is interesting to see how much they're watching this report to see what's in it. i think it says something that the democrats should be very careful about as they proceed with their campaigns talking about the issues that voters care about. to your question about how this would be handled on capitol hill, i don't think there's a ton of agreement beyond what is said. democrats by and large want to see what's in the mueller report

and now you're hearing far more republicans say the same thing. lindsey graham has been telling reporters for the last year or so that the only person who can exonerate donald trump is bob mueller. so there's a number of republican voices who can see what is in this report, too. republicans hope that maybe, just maybe, in the sense we know there are no more indictments coming, this is the kind of thing that will allow them to turn the page on this issue. democrats want to look at it for exactly the opposite reason. but beyond getting the details of this report, i don't think there's widespread agreement about how to proceed. you have nancy pelosi throwing cold water on the idea of starting impeachment proceedings and the democrats in the favor that it pumpeded the brakes on this a little bit. but now we're going to have to see what's in this report and the investigations that are already happening. trump policies can continue without that hanging over them so directly. but i do think you'll move into this phase here where democrats are going to have to test their

subpoena power. we've talked about this a lot. subpoena is not a magic bullet. just by sending a subpoena to the white house or to the justice department, that does not guarantee the results you want to get. and when a subpoena doesn't work, the lack of power behind it can be revealed. democrats are going to want to move carefully here to find ways to get this information out of barr, out of mueller, out of the justice department without having to use. if it doesn't work, they're sitting on their hands and will look enfeebled before the public who wants to see what's in this report. >> to garrett's point, we don't have to go far back in recent history to get more insight into that. a memo came back to the hill saying he's not going to provide, the white house is going to provide what congressmen and women have asked for when it comes to security clearances, for instance. >> i'm just curious about your sense of this road map is important. i go back to this piece that neal wrote in the "new york

times" saying if it's a short report, so be it. it will be a road map lawmakers can use for their investigations. how integral is that piece when you look at the investigations taking place at this point? >> it's integral, but garrett makes an important point and i'll make it more plainly. congressional subpoenas are close to feckless. they're not much better than someone sticking a menu under your car or windshield wiper. if you say no, i'm not going to abide by it, there is no recourse. it goes to the attorney general of the united states. >> so it's a little hard to make barr do something he doesn't want. but i think there's an issue here in that i understand he what both lexi and garrett are saying about not hearing this on the road. but i think in large part, that's because people have, again, had mueller identity there as this saint that is going to take care of everything. people are going to learn in the next couple of days and aren't going to understand why don junior is not in chains and why

donald trump is not looking at charges. there will be a ground swell for candidates and i think they're probably going to get crosswise with each other and with democratic leadership because they're going to want to hold positive messages and let's not talk about impeachment. here is the bottom line. this guy was elected by 70,000 votes in three states that were almost surely impacted by a number of people who intruded on our democracy. vladimir putin and jim comey. he lost the election, he has since then dishonored this office, he has abused this office, he has been corrupt in every day. he should not be president of the united states. the mechanism to do that at this point is impeachment. and the democrats are going to have to make sure that they don't fall for bar and trump saying, you see, no collusion, no collusion, no collusion. that is not what the thing is

saying. and even if it says that, we're going to double-check their work. yes, the declination aspect was included in barr's letter, but i'm going to -- i'm not trusting until i verify anything. and any given day, the guy is committing four impeachable offenses. >> i think here, though, the democrats needs to figure out what their platform is going to be in 2020. is it going to be let's get trump out of office? because if that is the case, look how will lock her up worked for republicans in 2016. and if they want to make this investigation something, again, we don't know what is in the report, but that was a talking point muveng tamong the grassro. now we've seen a shift in how democrats are pursuing 2020 which is more of a grassroots approach. is this to take on trump? and point to the fact that now we're seeing family members in positions of power with the white house with executive privilege here in some ways and they're now using their personal

e-mails and cell phones. the same very thing that republicans were upset about with hillary clinton and her family, the nepotism there. so i think there is a real opportunity there for democrats to capitalize on it even if it's not something that is being fully discussed on the campaign trail right now. >> do you think jared and ivanka will go to work on monday morning learning a lesson that i should tone down on my whatsapp usage and my back channel russian embassy channel? no. these people every day will be emboldened because they're not being held fktble. >> garrett headache in charleston, south carolina for us this morning, and up next, robert mueller has finished his report, but for democrats, this is the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end. chris kuntz of delaware is going to join me this hour as speculation grows on whether robert mueller will be called to testify on capitol hill. robert mueller will be called to testify on capitol hill. and en! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure.

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spec counsel robert mueller may be done with his report, but more than a half done federal and state investigations are still in progress. the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york has at least three open investigations, including hush money payments that are possible campaign donations. president trump's private businesses are under scrutiny as well as trump family taxes and the trump foundation. add to that a lawsuit over possible violations, a probe of

trump's inaugural committee 1k3 the trump organization insurance practices. impeachment remains a possibility. joining me now is democratic senator chris coons of delaware. senator, great to have you with me on this saturday morning. i'm trying to get a sense here of democratic strategy going forward with the caveat, of course, that i haven't seen the report, you haven't seen the report. what would you like to see happens happen next here in terms of order of operations? >> i'd like to see the report. i'd like to see as much as is possibility and i think attorney general bar should be proceed this weekend to convey to the house and senate ju dishadiciar committees as much as possible. given the ongoing investigations, there are three areas that you just mentioned that might justify the attorney general holdsing back parts of

the report, either those interfering with ongoing investigations, jury deliberations, or those matters that are classified because 24e6 to do with russia's interference in our 2016 election which congress is capable of handling in a classified situation. other that, even the president and his attorneys are saying release the full report. so it is my hope that we get there as soon as possible. >>. >> does it need to be released to do public? >> i think as much as possible should be released to the public. i recognize the three exceptions that i just mentioned. i want to make it clear to folks

that we're not going to see a report like independent counsel ken starr released about president bill clinton. that is several hundred pages long, it was lurid, overbroad and it detailed a lot of information that did not rise to the level of chargeable offenses. given all the back and forth that's happened about that report and other reports since, i expect robert mueller was circumspect in what he forwarded to bill barr. he's chosen, instead of delivering one great big report that hits at one time, to use a series of what are called speaking indictments. he has indicted 37 people in the 22 months to his investigation. i think seven of them so far have pled guilty or in one case been convicted and i think, you know, if mueller had, instead, delivered all of that in one day and one report, the american people would be reeling from its scope. instead, because it has been dragged out over two years, we have gradually become adjusted

to the idea that now president trump as a candidate apparently surround himself by people who are now convicted of felonies or have pled to felonies either for lying to congress or lying to federal investigators or misrepresenting contacts that they had with the russians. if deliver all in one report, that would be a stunning development. that it's happened over two years has allows time for folks to adapt to it. it's given president trump time to constantly campaign against this investment. >> last question here on the matter of benefit of the doubt, when you look at that letter that bill barr sent yesterday, how much benefit of the doubt are you going to give rim? >> part of what i weighed was his statements to us in the

judiciary committee that, you know, he was an institutionalist, he intended to defense the integrity of the department of justice and to follow rules and procedures. and i found that reassuring and considered voting for him. but what i found troubling was his own initiative in writing an 18 page memo as a private citizen that he sent in challenging the obstructionive theory that robert mueller seemed to be leading his investigation. so i'm concerned about attorney general bar and i think we in congress have an independent oversight responsibility that we should guard and execute on because our role is to make sure that even if there are no further indictment webs that we have access to the information that led to that conclusion. it's impossible that there were acts uncovered that are

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welcome back. to put the special counsel's body of work into perspective, we wanted to look back at another high profile investigation conducted by the former fbi director. we rewind to 2014. that is when the nfl commissioned robert mueller to look into the handling of the ray rice domestic violence incident. the center of that controversy was ray rice striking his then fiancee in a elevator. the 96-page report concluded the league should have done more with the information it had, but there was no evidence that the in-elevator video was sent to the league or if sent was received or viewed by the league. bill, take us back 2014-2015. the hope the nfl had that bob mueller portrayed at this

independent arbiter of this was going to come out and give us a sense of what went wrong here if the nfl shirked its responsibilities. >> i remember that. i read that. for those of us from the sport of play, we thought that, finally, we had the nfl dead to right on a moral ground. because the nfl's moral compass was broken. what we didn't know at the time was the nfl hired mueller is that he worked for a firm that had deep, deep, deep roots and connectionses with the national football league. they did all kinds of business with the national football league. what we also did not know then is that there had been a security person who said, you already -- the nfl, you saw tape of what ray rice did to his then fiancee in the elevator. which the nfl said, we didn't. that's why we only suspended him. and then suspended him for a couple of games and all that. when tmz made public this awful,

awful video of ray rice knocking out his girlfriend in the elevator we're going to hire mueller who works for a firm that does business with the nfl. now he's not just suspended, but we're going to banish him, we're going to give him what we now know as the kaepernick treatment. we're basically going the execute him. so when we think of -- so when i hear about the mueller report coming out now and we now go back to 2014, not being too cynical, but we kind of know how this story probably is going to turn out. there is going to be you should have done this, you should have did this. but if those people who are waiting for something really terrible, like impeachment or people really do not like the president think this is going to be it, it's not going to happen. it's not going to happen. >> there is a similar narrowness to these two investigations. you look back at this report, it was on ray rice.

as bill was saying, there is a back drop of violence in the envelope. there were other issues at play and i think there was some hope, correct me if i am wrong, bill, that that might come to light in this report. kind of similar in this one, as well, clint, when you look at the narrowness of bob mueller's investigative purview. >> yeah. i think this is one of the things i see in the public hysteria around the mueller report, he's not going to go outside of any of those lanes. he's going to stick strictly within it. he's not going to invent rules and he's not going to admonish people. when we saw the clinton investigation and comey say we're not going to charge, but whoa, this is terrible, you shouldn't have done it. he isn't going to do that. this points to what we're seeing now. his lane is pretty narrow. he probably is only going to go so far. he's not going to do it by himself. he's going to do it in conjunction with rod rosen sateen or attorney general barr and whenever he moves that forward, he's not going to make up rules or make provisions on his own, meaning if the attorney general doesn't allow him to do it, he's not going push the

envelope. so if he's not going to push the envelope, we'll stick with the process. what i see coming from all of this is the attorney general saying this is my summary. here, coming, it's your turn. if you want to do an impeachment or not, we don't indict a sitting president. >> how important is it to go back to this investigation? since the course of the investigation, since it began, a lot of efforts to telegraph, get a sense of what bob mueller is thinking. routine habit, all of that, we're trying to piece together who he is. how does this inform what you think this report is going to look like? >> let's just notice that, you know, he did go to dinner last night, as he typically does and ordered scallops. so this is a man of control, clearly. he's been very quiet throughout these two years. you've never heard him say anything, except for his office, i don't know, a couple you months ago now where there was question when something was leaked as to something happening. and they had to put out a statement. but that is the only time that there has been something. this has been very quiet. it's kept very tight.

and i think that's for a reason. now, whether or not that's because there will be other factors at play here that lead to further indictments, even though that is not in the report right now, we know that there are no further indictments, but there have been. there were conversations about don jr. potentially being on that list. he was not interviewed. so now i think we know a couple of things here. was it stalled? was it stopped? no one really knows. and, again, this is so hard to talk about when you don't know what's in it. but at the same time, we do know some of these things. and because things were kept so quiet, i think we could recognize here that this was a very controlled investigation because we also know that the number one tweeter in chief would have tweeted out multiple times if he thought this was in any way unfair or biassed against him. so i think mueller did what he had to to get through this two-year investigative process. now it's up to everyone else to figure out what's in it and what to do with the information that's in it. >> quickly here, what difference

is there between something like this commissioned by the nfl, done by a private firm and what bob mueller has been undertaking here. it's a fundamentally different thing, isn't it? >> it is a different thing. i mean, in the independence is critically important. and i don't know the back story of the nfl report. what i can tell you, two things about bob mueller. one, he taught me how to be a federal prosecutor. he is a decent, honorable law and order oriented person who taught all of his prosecutors well. how to do the job of holding bad people accountable for crimes. two, i can tell you he's an expert investigator and i think you that because after he investigated the shooting of a police officer in washington, d.c., it was passed off to me and he was tried. so i have complete confidence, while we're waiting to figure out what he found and why he did

what he did, i have confidence that the process was full and fair and that we're going to accept the results. >> bill, i appreciate you very much. thank you for bringing your perspective. >> up next, why some democrats are already vow to go subpoena bob mueller himself. o subpoena bob mueller himself. (mom) is that for me? (dad) mhm. aaaah! (mom) nooooo... (dad) nooooo... (son) nooooo... (avo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. [son loudly clears throat] [mom sighs] [mom and dad laugh]

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welcome back. i'm david goran. i'll talk about what happens

next when it comes to bob mueller and the work of the special counsel. he's closing up shop, submitting this report. we learned from bill barr he's working with the attorney general, with rod rosenstein to decide what becomes public. let's spend time talking about the legacy of this investigation. what has changed fundamentally as a result of having this special counsel? >> in the short term, we're not going to see anymore special counsel indictments out of bob mueller. on an institutional level, i think that's a good thing. i don't see how bill barr could make some of the decisions he's going to have to make with respect to disclosure without consulting with the people who have been intimately involved with this investigation for the last 22 months. so -- but what's going to change is now i think we're going to have to turn our attention to all of the u.s. attorneys offices and see what bob mueller has seeded out there and what

may begin to grow if anything. >> there's been such a focus on fara, the foreign agency registrations act. now we understand there's going to be a new office in the department of justice focused on prosecuting those cases. lo and behold the guy in charge will be somebody from bob mueller's team. i don't think we've talked enough about all the men and women to be on the team. that's a legacy in itself. >> it has. what the president painted them as folks who are not objective enough to do their jobs, not competent or qualified enough to do their jobs, but clearly they are, if they're being reassigned to do these different things. you know that better than i would. that's an important part of this. something else, to your point, you in the first hour had an image of garrett graph from wired, an article from him. he laid out in this incredible article something like the 17 investigations into the trump campaign and russia. only seven of those, i believe, were under mueller's purview. that leaves at least ten in

which other agency, institutions and folks will be looking into those things. even without mueller there, we'll have the legacy of this broader investigation that mueller was the public face of, continuing and being a thorn in trump's side. >> lastly to you, we talked about the blows law enforcement has taken from the president of the united states. we've spoken about bob mueller as this vessel for hope for many, many people. he has been a bull work against that, the rhetoric of president trump over these last two years. >> right. >> talk about that legacy and what it means that we've gotten through this, he wasn't fired, the report has been tendered. >> it's remarkable he has gotten through it. i think it speaks to the strategy of other investigations will take up other parts of this, which is always an insurance policy. i'm most worried about, over time, that constant battering of the mueller investigation, constant beating up of the fbi for the public in general what is the net effect? in trump country can fbi agents

still recruit sources, can they do investigations? for people involved in russian counterintelligence, are they now being snubbed inside the agencies? these are usually the superstars, by the way, of national security. these are the top people that were going on to further things and their career. we maybe killed off an entire chain of that. ultimately, does the public believe anything other than a democrat or republican type of plan. >> is there anything non-partisan. thank you to all of you. coming up on our next hour, joy reid taking over our special coverage of the robert mueller report. rt rt delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein. be up for life.

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plus, access your favorite team on any device. go online today. that does it for me today. thank you for watching. "am joy" with joy reid starts right now. the delivery of the mueller report could be imminent. >> i'm going wait for the mueller report. we have to see what the mueller report says, i think, before making any conclusion. >> mueller's work is nearly done. and he'll likely submit a report to the attorney general bill barr in the next week or so. >> the big question now is, are we going to get to see both the report and the underlying evidence. >> president trump is waiting. rudy juliangiuliani waiting, wi barr, waiting. newsrooms, waiting. >> good morning and welcome to