hi, everyone. i'm ari melber live from washington with a very big show. we are more than 24 hours away from when special counsel bob mueller first submitted his formal report to the justice department, ending his russia probe. william barr and rod rosenstein at the doj working today. and had idea is they would be releasing as soon as this weekend a set of principle conclusions from at least who was indicted and not indicted in the mueller probe. so everyone now expecting to see those findings as soon as tomorrow. could be the same time the public would get them as members of congress. and some here on team trump are already starting to say they get to celebrate, pointed to the fact that we believe mueller has not recommended other indictments. but president trump says this is far from over.

>> everything in this report and its work product should be released to congress. >> the whole report, right away, is what we will be demanding, and potentially using subpoenas to obtain. we're at the beginning potentially off another battle, a new phase. >> what happened today is the close of a chapter, the mueller investigation piece. and now mueller's kind of like a relay racer, handing off the baton to other folks. >> you just heard from legal experts and democrats who have strong views on this and are making them known. but you know who we haven't heard from? someone we usually hear from on matters far he is consequential than this, the president of the united states. he's been uncharacteristically quiet across all platforms. he hasn't come to the cameras or called anyone or called into tv shows. the white house says donald trump hasn't even been briefed on the findings. let's get right into it to break

down every angle of this story. i'm joined by pete williams, nbc white house correspondent kelly o'donnell, pbs news hour in a misha al cinder. i'm going to start one on one with pete williams who has been leading our reporting charge. pete, walk us through exactly what happened today or didn't happen, what you glean from it and what that means for tomorrow. >> so what happened today largely was out of public view. it was bill barr at the justice department with rod rosenstein who's been supervising the mueller investigation, finishing their review of the report and discussing and probably drafting what it is that they can make public. so i think you characterize it exactly right. we're halfway between the point last night when it was made must be and the point tomorrow night when we're going to get our first insight into what the mueller report concluded, or as barr said in his letter to

congress friday, the principle conclusions. you have exactly characterized what the letter said we're going to get because in the -- the letter yesterday did several things. it fulfilled the statutory obligation that the attorney general said in the first paragraph when he said mueller's investigation is done and we never did anything at the justice department to counter anything we wanted to do. we never said no. that was all he was required under the rules to report to congress. all the rest of this is something that is beyond what the rules require. but the third paragraph is where he says, mueller's report as under the rules who he prosecuted, and then he says in the next sentence, i hope over the weekend to be able to tell you about that. by tomorrow we should get the summary of that if they keep to their plan. >> pete, before i go to the

wider panel, we don't know what's going to be in that, but as you say, it's in the paragraph that refers to the special counsel rules relatively narrow description of who you charged and didn't charge. for everyone weigh on edge or all the viewers who've been watching you report on all of this, what does that mean the implications of what we learn tomorrow potentially? >> we already run into the hard part for the justice department. while there are notable exceptions that got some people in trouble, for the most part when the justice department investigators somebody and it doesn't charge them, it doesn't blurt that out. it doesn't say we investigated somebody for bank fraud or for child pornography. we decided not to charge them because we didn't have the evidence on the theory that that doesn't give them a chance to defend themselves, that doesn't provide a forum for them to provide to get their reputation back. so that's what they're struggling with. will they say other people that the mueller investigated but

didn't skmarj wcharge and why, undoubtedly confident report to the attorney general, but that goes against justice department rules to blurt that out. so how much will they say? that's the hard thing they're struggling with. >> right. you're gesturing towards something that matters a lot, which is barr also referred to what you were just describing as long-standing policies and procedures in the letter as well, a nod towards maybe that limitation. >> yeah. >> go ahead. >> one other point. remember rod rosenstein's memo to the president on why jim comey didn't do the right thing when he had that news conference about hillary clinton. there's a long section in that memo about how we at the justice department don't talk about people we investigate and not charge. from the beginning of rod rosenstein time at the justice department, that's been a principle for him. >> nbc's pete williams who has been all over this as always

weir gratef we're graphite for your reporting. thank you very much. now we turn back to the panel. i have kelly o'donnell, ken dilanian, yamiche and natasha in washington with me. i swear i was in new york recently. let me start with both of you here. we're in this town of d.c. everyone is very excited except for donald trump, who is unusually quiet. >> very weird, yeah. just the fact we've heard absolutely nothing from him when he would usually be tweeting up a storm on the weekend, especially when he's at mar-a-lago is a little odd. but i do think that come tomorrow when the results are kind of in, right, when the top line summary goes to congress and when we learn about it simultaneously, because we will, it will also be released to reporters to all of us. we may see some movement coming from the white house in terms of pushback. we don't know what it's going to say, but i imagine it's not

going to be all good for the president. i imagine it's going to say why perhaps they declined to charge him for things like obstruction of justice, why they perhaps declined to bring a conspiracy charge, which is what a lot of people have been expecting and there's not going to be any more indictments. we have to wait and see at this point. >> we have to wait on that part, but there are big inferences that can be drawn. before i go to you, i want to also draw on your regulatportin here. you talk about the mueller investigation and what it shows, and you say, look, they didn't discuss any of this face to face with the president. former fbi agent expressing surprise that mueller wouldn't interview its central target. explain. >> this is something that former fbi agents, former doj officials that i speak to are very confused about. they say, you know, bill clinton sat down, was interviewed. hillary clinton was interviewed,

but the subject of this investigation or the target even of this investigation himself never had to face mueller during a face-to-face sitdown interview. it's very odd because one theory they had is perhaps mueller went to the doj and asked for a subpoena. can i subpoena the president because he's not going to submit to a voluntary interview. and so the only explanation, really, that she thought perhaps that trump would plead the fifth and he didn't want to go through that protracted court battle or thought the written answers were enough. we really just don't know. >> for two years there's been this dark cloud over the trump presidency. i think the president is just starting to see a little bit of daylight but is very cautious to see that as actually be this report in this idea that there aren't going to be more indictments as a good sign. that's why he's being cautious. i've been on the phone with white house aides all day trying

to get an understanding of what the president's mood s. i'm told he's glad this is over, somewhat in good spirits. giuliani seems very chipper and feels like this means that this is over and that the president can finally move on. >> we'll bring kelly into this as well. i heard from some sources that rudy was running around like as excited as he's been this weekend. >> yes. i add to that that i've been talking to former trump campaign people from 2016 who say this is all a waste of money, this proves our point that he's been vindicated. i say all that because the president doesn't feel that way because he actually hasn't spoken. >> that's the first sign. "new york times" where you used to report from is the second sign saying that he's telling some of his friends that he's nervous until he sees what comes out tomorrow. kelly has been patiently waiting out in the field. what are you hearing? >> reporter: i had a chance to

speak with rudy giuliani today. we've been in touch. he certainly is not conveying anxiety, at the same time, i wouldn't go so far as to characterize him cliekcked his heels. he and the team have not been in touch with the attorney general as far as any briefing or access to the report so far. so that's a big question about when will they get the information as well. he also described some things that he also said he could envision that what the report would ultimately contain could be something that would in his words, muddy the water a bit, information related to the president's handling of the firing of james comey that does not in giuliani's view rise to obstruction. but at the same time, the president might be rebuked in the findings, conducting his interactions with comey in an unwise fashion. this was all giuliani putting together some predictions of

what he thinks may be in the report so that caveat has to be there. at the same time, we're not expecting to hear anything from the white house. that's as close to the guidance as we've had so far. and the kind of straighten were seen from the president. the president went to his golf club today and it took the grammy-nominated artist kid rock tweeted that he and the president were at the golf club today . a news bulletin from place i don't normally check. >> shout out not only to kid rock but shout out to his americana pants. >> reporter: those are definitely the kind of pants when you're playing with the president, apparently. so the president is sort of engaging in the kind of weekend we typically see, except he is not tweeting and not calling in and so forth. whatever this restraint is what

how long it will hold is a question mark. but look ahead to the week, i think he has a rally set for thursday night in michigan. rallies are one place where donald trump has so often talked about the mueller investigation and that's where we get the buzz phrase of witch hunt and no collusion and all those sorts of things. can he hold out for that long? hard to imagine, but that's where we are right now. some characterizations. >> some kid intelligence, if you will. i don't know. i don't know. it was labored. but ken, you've heard a lot of reporting analysis from everyone here. i give you open season. your views on the saturday. what do you want to add? >> i think there's one potentially very dramatic

revelation that could come out of this explanation of the deck lynn nations. i would have charged him with a crime if he wasn't president of the united states and there wasn't something prohibiting me from indicting him. that remains a possibility. rudy giuliani clearly doesn't think that that's part of what's possible here, but that would be extremely dramatic. other than, this compressed review, i can't imagine we're going to get a huge amount of information tomorrow. but don't forget there's that other paragraph in the barr letter where he says there is this other information that is more sensitive that i'm going to have to consult with lawyers about whether it can ever be made public and go to congress. that could the most interesting stuff and that's the stuff congressional democrats are going to demand to see because it may go to the whole

counterintelligence question. the fbi tried to determine whether the president of the united states was compromised or influenced by a foreign adversary, my russia. congress has a right to know the results of that information under a separate intelligence reporting statute. the intelligence committees argue the fbi should come to them and tell them what they found. that would have to be in a classified setting and nancy pelosi has apparently said today that's not acceptable to her. she doesn't think the report should be shrouded in any classification. she wants it to be briefed in the open so members can talk about it, ari. >> so, just taking that back to the hill, obviously the democrats are in a little bit of a pickle given how little information has come out, but the report didn't end with further indictments. that's just a fact at this point. there were a lot of indictments, so it's bad for any white house to have six advisors indicted.

do democrats look to anything on obstruction and try to say, well, this is just a presidential exception because if any other person had actively tried to get this much interference done, they would be charged? >> two quick things. first, i talked to someone who said we might have a james comey moment where he's all the things that he did and the sound bite ways we can say this, saying he was negligent, he was reckless. then there's this idea that democrats are saying we want all the supporting evidence. so it's not just enough for the democrats on the hill to get the report. they want all the foot notes every single thing. >> senator blumenthal wants grand jury material. you can't get that without a judge. that's not bill barr or robert mueller's call. >> there's a looming political battle that's going to be really waged here on who can use this

report, what's this going to mean for 2020 in terms of what people want to use out of the report, once the president gets his hands on it, we can bet that he's going to say i was vicinity indicated. >> finally, since we have a super star panel that's been doing this all weekend, how much coffee have you had in the last 48 hours. >> i only drink water. >> that's impressive. natasha? >> a lot. >> ken, more than five cups? >> oh, easy, any day, ari. more than five. >> kelly? >> i was pounding it down, yes. >> pounding. all right. that's something we have in common as everyone deities reporting. my special thanks to a big saturday night panel. kelly o'donnell, natasha bertrand. we have more coming up in this show. the memos, the letters, the evidence, anything that bob mueller got in his nearly two-year investigation. we're going to get into it with

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house democrats have sent over document preservation letter to the department of justice. we want to make sure the documents are preserved in the event we need to see those documents. >> ted lu there earlier highlighting what's become a big concern among democrats today, the preservation of all of

mueller's work. there are many other congressional investigations ongoing, some remitted, some looking to draw on evidence gathered by mueller. i'm joined now tonight by democratic congresswoman sheila jackson lee. thank you for joining me. >> good to be with you this evening. >> good to have you. let's start big picture. what does it mean to you that bob mueller finished his work without diagnostic any americans for con expiring with or colluding with the russians? >> what it means is that the work is undone. i will say the american people are engaged. they want the full release of this mueller report. and they understand the context of the mueller report. now, let me be very clear. i think mueller's team should be congratulated with 34 public indictments, three companies, seven individuals, a trial, and a conviction. but it is a beginning, if you will.

even though it was touted as a witch hunt and with every other name that could be called by the administration, the mueller report lays the foundation, and the work of the committees in the house and the senate should continue with the basis of the mueller report all of the documents and a full airing to the american people and to the members of congress of that mueller report. we still have work to do. >> sure. >> as it relates to public corruption and otherwise. >> i think that makes sense. i think people generally want the house to be the coequal branch doing oversight investigations, but we are this weekend at an inflection point. there are those who say donald trump hires crooks and runs a criminal operation. it would seem the mueller investigation proved some of that because there are several crooks and some of them are going to jail. but by contrast, as you know, some of your colleagues, some democrats also said, well, there must have definitely been americans around trump colluding

with russians. what is your reaction to that part that there isn't chargeable collusion? >> my reaction, again, is we are going to engage, the judiciary committee, financial services committee, intelligence committee, continuing on those very issues. remember, we'll be looking at public corruption, abuse, obstruction of justice, which can, in fact, involve more details about the meeting with the russian officials at trump tower or the business dealings that the trump operations have had. i'm not intimidated by the mueller report because i believe that we still have work to do. we want the surrounding documents. we want all of them. and i remind you that when it came to hillary clinton's e-mails, the justice department provided 880,000 documents to the republicans. i remind you that, of course,

the republican ranking member of the intelligence and ranking member of the judiciary say they want a full airing of all of the documents. with these documents, we will be proceeding to investigate. >> you're well within a factual foundation to point out some of the hypocrisy on republicans not wanting or maybe being afraid of transparency. but at the risk of coming back to you a third time, it'll be a last time i ask, i am curious what democratic leaders make of the lack of indictments on conspiracy or collusion. do you view that as basically meaning there are probably wasn't trump collusion with russia? or do you view that as an open question still? that's the part where as of friday mueller didn't find the evidence chargeable on that. >> i believe it's an open question. i'm not prepared as i indicated earlier to have the mueller report to be the beginning and the end. i think it is a beginning. i won't be satisfied on the

issue of collusion until the congress does its job. and i won't be satisfied if there's no findings regarding russia's involvement in the elections, even though we know that we have 17 intelligence agencies say that way back in 2016. but with that involvement, i do think there are questions about who might have been involved as the relates to the trump operation and russia. remember, there was a statement made by michael cohen that indicated he was in the office with the president at the time he was not the president and roger stone called on the phone to talk about the release of the e-mails. we know there's a round about connection with russia and wikileaks and others dealing with the release of those e-mails impacting the 2016 election. so i don't think we have all of the answers and it's our responsibility to be detailed in our response. again, we're not engaged in a

witch hunt. i'm glad the president acknowledged that he wants to see the mueller report. but i do believe that the american people are looking now to congress to do its job. when i'm in my district and i to listen constituents, they're looking to us to build on and begin to tell the truth. >> yeah. congressman sheila jackson on this saturday night. thanks for making time for us. >> thank you for having me. >> appreciate it. as we mentioned, mueller's work may be done, but there's a lot of people waiting for what we're going to get tomorrow and beyond in the report as well as the next steps. what do legal experts think about what mueller proved when he did his big calls and big debates? i have a very special panel of prosecutors next. staying at hampton for a work trip.

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interested to learn more of what is the contents of special counsel robert mueller's report. he submitted this document on friday evening, but it's all up to the attorney general, bill barr. and basically what he decides is going to dominate tomorrow and a lot of our legal and political life. his deputy rod rosenstein is on the job today going through that report, going over what could be

released as soon as tomorrow or later to congress and the public. the principle conclusions could be there tomorrow. doj sources also say there will be no new indictments because this investigation is over. president trump and those in his orbit might still have other concerns. there are many republicans who are starting to celebrating. the president, however, is, and this is according to people close to him, actually concerned about what else is in this report even though there are no more new indictments. a friend of trump saying he's anxious about the contents. that the release was taking longer than expected. i'm joined by joyce vance and greg brower. thank you for starting off the conversation. greg, given your knowledge here, particularly when you think about the congressional side of

this, you basically had barr very carefully put the letter to congress yesterday, go to the press at the same time. he could use that model again tomorrow. what is he doing for that process? >> he's trying to, i think, at a minimum make congress aware of the fact that the investigation is finished and he's going to follow the relative regulations as much as he thinks in "s" appropriate about the investigation. as you know the regulations that govern this are not very detailed. and so it's an interesting challenge for this attorney general to decide exactly what to share and how to do. >> it there's not a ton of precedents. this does seem like a time before we get the next charge of information tomorrow to say, okay, how did bob mueller do, based on what we know? now that we know he's done. >> a productive investigation anywayny way you look at it with dozens of charged defendants, more than 100 criminal counts

total, a lot of activity. what was missing, of course, apparently, because no further indictments are coming, at least from the mueller investigation, was any kind of grand conspiracy indictment relating to cooperation between russ coordination from donald trump and the campaign. >> taking that to joyce, i've had the benefit of your analysis from the moment this broke on the beneaat last night at 6:00. what do you think of the big calls? he was gutsy in going after the president's lawyer and campaign chair. he didn't ever, mueller, get set back by judges for overreaching. very clean record there. but he was not as aggressive, for example, in choosing to pass on forcing the president to testify, and he clearly, if the facts and evidence supported it, he clearly didn't charge on collusion? >> you know if mueller hadn't

been announcing his cases all the way and yesterday filed a report, told us he had indicted six of the president's key advisers, the national security adviser down to the president's lawyer and his longtime consultant, roger stone, that he had indicted 50 russians for using social media to influence americans during the election, that he had indicted russian gru agents for hacking and trying to influence the election and damage hillary clinton, we would have been astonished and time would have stopped and we would have talked about what a success robert mueller was. so i think it's only the president's constant barrage of criticism that's ameliorated in any sense the success of this special counsel operation, which has been really magnificent. you know, the question you're asking is how do we assess decisions he made along the way. i think it's difficult to answer until we understand what he did. did he not indict because he doesn't think crimes were not committed? does he think crimes might have

been committed but he doesn't have sufficient evidence, or decline to indict further crimes because the president can't be indicted. we have to see the content-to-a sophisticated understanding. >> that's an important point because the idea of elevating anyone in public life to pure hero status while they're still serving, it doesn't make sense, at least to journalists. he may have done an incredible job, you just went through some of that and how our a.d.d. environment may have missed some of that, and yet there are clear calls that are important to debate and results important to debate. i'd like to ask you both to stay with me. we get to do something extra special, which is add two more experts to season this assessment of mueller's record and what it means up ahead for those future probes that are still going. ibe to a car

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welcome back to our special coverage. we were mid-discussion about what mueller's achieved and what was left undone. adding to our panel and carol lamb and former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi, frank figliuzzi. carol, what do you make of what mueller achieved, what he didn't do and what is left undone?

roger stone will simply be tried in washington, and what's happening in new york. >> great question. when you do a criminal investigation as a special counsel, you have to -- you get a lot of advantages, you get search warrants, you get to use the grand jury subpoena power, you get to hear testimony in a secret setting. but then you also have a very high bar that you have to consider when you're deciding whether you're going to bring criminal charges, can you provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury. you have those factors. but think about how narrow, really, the mandate was to this special counsel. that was to investigate russian interference with u.s. elections and whether there was any conspiracy with the trump organization. that's pretty narrow. >> when people keep hearing

that, it is and it isn't. what do you make of the result that he found a lot of crime but didn't bust anyone for those links? >> right. he established the russian hacking pretty well in that gru die. but what he probably, and this is just my speculation, but what he was probably having difficulty with was proving the state of mind of the people in the trump organization or roger stone and establishing that that he knew for sure that they were dealing with the russians. now, the interesting thing to me is that because of the narrowness of the mandate, that it had to be russian hackers, you have to look at the state of mind of the people he was investigating. take roger stone. he knew he was dealing with julian assange. julian assange is not russian. he knew he was dealing with guccifer 2.0 who at one point was representing himself to be a romanian hacker. so if that was the state of mind

of roger stone or the trump organization, that's actually outside the mandate of the special counsel. so we don't know what else is being investigated, but that's why i emphasize the narrowness of the mandate. >> right. to be clear, this is not a criticism. it's just trying to understand factually what he charged and didn't charge. what do you think of joyce's point that if you do the thought experiment that all the results came on a single day at the end and you had six trump advisers indicted, that no one's beaten a charge, how would that look? >> i think, frankly, what the special counsel has done in 22 months is extraordinary. if you look at the volume of work that that relatively small group of prosecutors had to do, everything from grand jury work and search warrants, all the way up through trials and post-trial sentencing of a lot of people. it was an extraordinary amount of work when you look at the

thoroughness of the gru indictments. it is, as a collective body of work, very, very impressive. you know, if you look at the cases they brought, they were very targeted and they are almost sure wins in the sense that if you get a reasonable jury and a reasonable judge, they were pretty tight cases. and i think that's the problem with the larger conspiracy case. >> let me bring in frank. same questions. >> let me echo what everyone is saying about this monumental job that mueller did not only sounding the alarm, but he proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that people by name, gru intelligence officers, time, date, building they were on, the key strokes and timing of that, incredibly impressive work and people aren't reacting enough to that, the threat to our electoral process and it's still

going on. moving forward, the question of what he has not done yet, let's wait and see, but i see people still not fully grasping counterintelligence. counterintelligence is the chess game in the fbi. it's the most cerebral part of the fbi and it's nuanced and subtle. it's quite possible that we could see through his declination explanation, what i've been calling speaking declinations. he's talked to us through his indictments all through the case. is it possible that in his report while he says i didn't charge trump, here's why, and here's what i found that we get an incredibly damaging explanation that might cause congress to say this is horrific and we're going to think about impeachment. >> is there a narrative at some point if not tomorrow in the later, larger information for congress about the obstruction and that's are really big

oversight question, what congress wants to do about that. some of the elements of obstruction occurred in plain sight. "the new york times" reported he tried to fire mueller. when nixon did that, it was part of his undoing. frank, i want to give you a chance to respond. here's what someone on fox news, tucker carlson said friday night's show. >> after all of this, years of it, not a single american citizen has been charged with anything related to russian collusion. not one person, not michael flynn, not roger stone, not george papadopoulos, not carter page, not donald trump. many of these people have had their lives ruined by the mueller investigation. some could die in prison. not one of them colluded with russia. >> the individuals who were convicted by a jury of their peers and would die in prison would be a lawful and normal

outcome. but what do you say to his factual point that those were not collusion indictments, frank? >> he's right, but here's the game of counterintelligence. it could be -- by the way, this is the case in the majority of all fbi counterintelligence investigations, that you do not end up with a criminal prosecution but rather you end up with an incredibly nuanced case that someone has been compromised, that someone attempted to get assistance from a foreign adversary. these are winks and nods. manafort, for example, turning over internal polling data to the russians, did he know he was handing it ultimately to the russian intelligence service? what were his intentions? was it self-aggrandizement to posture not only to the russians but i but back to the president? same could be said of roger stone, posturing and pontificating. people trying to help the boss out. the boss may or may not know what's going on, so mueller may have said, look, if it's not airtight, i'm not charging it,

but i'm going to explain it in the report and i think that's what we should expect. >> it's fascinating to hear this from a team people want straight-up legal context and facts on a probe that by any measure indicted a lot of people. but also, as a collusion probe, didn't hit those indictments. carol, joyce, greg, and frank, my thanks to each of you. coming up, the politics here. we say th 2020 candidates weighing in. i have a special panel next. in. i have a special panel next. that we just hit the motherlode of soft-serve ice cream? i got cones, anybody wants one! oh, yeah! get ya some! no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my car insurance with geico. ed! ed! we struck sprinkles! [cheers] believe it. geico could save you fifteen percent

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♪ we have to know how foreign governments sought to undermine our country's democracy. we need to know if campaigns colluded with those governments. >> the american people have a right and a need to know, the underlying evidence that supports that report should be made public. >> it is absolutely imperative that the trump administration make that report public. >> there you see, 2020 democratic candidates agreeing on one thing, the mueller

report's got to go public. that's basically every candidate who's weighed in has weighed in that way. the republicans who have read the report seem to vindicate the report even though they doan know what is said. donald trump has been rarely quiet. he hasn't discussed it at all yet. here's what we do know. the 2016 investigation is over. on the politics side i bring in a republican contributor and former adviser to hillary clinton and contributor. nice to see you both. >> you too. >> we know a lot more today than we did when we woke up yesterday. for example, the president employed a bunch of crooks. that was clear throughout the 22 months, but bob mueller didn't charge on collusion. >> i mean look.

i think if it ultimately comes out that the president was not personally implicated in colluding or it comes out that robert mueller did not want to indict the president or could not i think this would be full vindication for the president and i think the republicans will say this has been 22 months of a political witch hunt. >> vindication on alleged russian conspiracy. >> yes. >> because he has obstruction evidence up and down the block, but let's start with that. >> sure. >> this is what ken starr and steve scalise are saying in terms of the messaging side. take a look. >> the nation should be thankful that there was no evidence that we know of of klugcollusion, wh has been the case all along, no public case of collusion. >> we've said it all along, and yet that was only a few months into the investigation and yet

mueller continues to go on. >> now, both of those are factually overstated. there's no chargeable collusion. there was evidence of the collusion. the trump tower meeting was poor judgment and most republicans said they would not have taken that meeting. but if you take the bar up to no chargeable, where does that take that? >> how many of the average american voters know the nuances? they do not. >> your argument is donald trump's defense will be that the americans don't know what's going on? >> it's not necessary my view but the reality is most folks don't get the details of this. that's the fact. most folks are not legal adrien >> look. here's the full report. candidates for 2020 are demanding full release of the report. >> that makes sense, but what about this part?

>> over 30 people have been indicted in this investigation. it's rornlt to remember that congress will hold oversight hearings on this report regardless of whether or not the president of the united states is indicted. >> i think the report he's raising -- i pushed him a little bit. i'm going to push you. there was an idea that hillary clinton may have lost because of an election crime. >> mm-hmm. >> do you see that now as not the case because no crime has been charged? >> i'm not going to make any judgments until i actually see the report. >> i'm not saying there wasn't an effort. i'm saying there was up and down in these meetings, but you can't make a jum of the crime part? mueller's done and he didn't charge anyone with an election crime. >> i don't feel comfortable making predeterminations until i see the report and that's why the report needs to be released. >> what's the hole in his argument?

>> is you can't sit here and vindicate the president when over 30 people have been indicted including six people in the trump campaign. >> we know you're not a big fan of the president, adrienne, but those 30 people are not the president. that has to be made very clear here. i think democrats are raising the bar so high, the reality may be that once this document is completely made public and it does not say the president colluded with russia or attempted to collude with russia, i think it's a political win for the president, if that is the case. however, i will say if it does say mueller wanted to indict the president. >> we'll ba watching for that and watch debates like this play out. this was bust a sampling. thank you both of you and for your civility. we'll be back here for our larger special 9:00 p.m. eastern sunday night on the mueller investigation. stay with us for continuing coverage. investigation. stay with us for continuing coverage n-seasoned travelers.

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side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. with the botox® savings program, most people with commercial insurance pay nothing out of pocket. talk to your doctor and visit botoxchronicmigraine.com to enroll. i'm chris hayes. tonight, the breaking news that the political world has been anticipating for weeks. special counsel robert mueller has now submitted his final report to the department of justice and concluded his investigation of russia and the trump campaign. we got word at 5:00 p.m. that mueller had delivered his report to attorney general william barr recently confirmed for barr's