this is again a demonstration that this president of the united states has no ability to empathize. he has no ability to reach out. he could claim a moment by helping puerto rico and he refuses even to do that. >> my thanks to you and to jeremy, carol, and matt that. does it for this hour. thank you for watching. "mtp daily" starts now. >> hi there, nicole. if it's tuesday, presidential pivot! i'm katie turr for chuck todd. breaking news. a justice department official told nbc news they will take bill war weeks, not months to make a version of mueller's report publicly available. we don't know what that version will look like and if the weeks

will add up to months, but we know there many, many unanswered questions about what the special counsel found during his investigation and why the attorney general stepped in to clear the president of obstruction when mueller would not. those questions don't evaporate, nor should they. congress might get a chance to ask some of those questions sooner rather than later. politically speaking, barr's summary of muller's report is a big victory for the president and his 2020 reelection campaign. that made today's move by the trump administration by its own justice department so surprising. at a moment when democrats were desperate to talk about something else, they got it. the trump administration is arguing in a filing that a federal judge should invalidate the entire affordable care act, all of it including protections on preexisting conditions which

means just 24 hours after the russia investigation became an issue, republicans were happy to talk about the spotlight back on an issue democrats want to talk about. health care. the president met with republicans on capitol hill where attendees tell us he did something of a victory lap on the russia probe. the main topic was, you guessed it, health care. heading into that, the president was asked about the message to anxious americans and his answer suggested that he didn't really have one. >> let me just tell you what my message is. the republican party will soon be known as the party of health care. >> joining me now is phil rucker, white house chief for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor. with me tonight's panel, steve kornacki for nbc news. brett stevens for the new york times and msnbc contributor and

heather mcgee, senior fellow at demoss. this as arguably been the best week of donald trump's presidency. no impeachment and no more isis controlled territory and no determination on obstruction and no veto overright. michael avenatti was arrested. why change the subject? >> as we know by now, there is not a lot of strategic planning and coordination that goes on inside the trump administration. i'm not sure this was necessarily a deliberate attempt by the administration to change the subject. it certainly handed a lifeline to democrats. democrats won back the house in the 2018 mid-terms in large part because of the health care issue. it was a motivating force for suburban swing voters in key districts to flip to the democratic side and democrats in 2020 are hoping to use issues like health care to have more

victories then. it is odd indeed that the trump administration would inject this issue into the political debate today, but here we are. >> do they feel bulletproof. teflon don was back in the headlines. does the president and his team feel like they can do anything now that they have the political capital once again? >> they certainly feel emboldened according to the white house officials that i spoke to. the president feels very much empowered to govern the way he wants to and feels quite bullish about his reelection chances because of barr's summary of the mueller report and leaves at the capitol having lunch with republican senators and senators who came out of that lunch told reporter that is the president acted as if he had a new lease on and he was in a terrific mood and talking about all sorts of issues and feeling very loose and emboldened. >> if you are a democrat and you wake up and say to yourself,

what am i going to be asked about by reporters and think what do i hope i'm asked about, what is your answer? >> the answer is the trump administration is trying to take away millions of americans's health care. what do you think about that? that's what they want to talk about. it's important that we not let this four-page summary make us in the media forget what we already know about not only obstruction of justice which was absolutely the verdict is still out and we think mueller sent it to congress for a reason, but also it's a summary that covers the fact that the president of the united states had information about a foreign adversary interfering in our election and hid it and all of the other things we know about the trump tower meeting, it's this weird moment where attorney general barr is trying to make us forget what we already know. the indisputed facts. it's important that we do not do

that. >> it is just a four-page summary. it will be week, not months. if more of it comes out and it's a fully flushed out version of the report, does that suggest it's more good news for the president? >> of course it does. if barr substantially mischaracterized what mueller had written in his report, i suspect we would be hearing from the special counsel. now it's dangerous for democrats to sort of cross their fingers and hope that major discrepancies are going to emerge between the summary and the full report. of course we need to see the full report and of course we need to examine exactly what happened and think of this. nobody should think that this is not a huge moment for the president. that march 24th, 2019 may be remembered as the day that donald trump won reelection and a narrative -- i'm simply saying. it's not a wish. i'm trying to outline a

political reality. >> why do you think that? tell me why that day is pivotal. >> for the same reason that the moment that wmd were conclusively not found in iraq was when the unraveling of the bush presidency began. >> the headline does -- i think that you have something to this. it will drown out the other negative headlines about this administration and everything we have seen so far because the president has this bludgeon to see the democrats told you i was conspireing and i obstruct and it's all a bunch of lies. >> from the beginning i was consistent. we owed it to muler to let him conclude his report which is why people like sean hannity said shut down the investigation. they are a bunch of democrats and they are out to get the president. everything else beyond the

question of no collusion just looks like a bullet point in the fine print. a detail. it is a fact that a great many democrats got out ahead to allege there had been collusion. the democrats i would argue owe the president an apology and the sooner democrats move away from what happened in 2016 and move towards what they are going to do in 2020, the likelier they are to move ahead. >> maybe the conclusion was not a criminal standard for collusion, but we know the president was aware of a foreign adversary trying to interfere with our elections. our son said i would love to have that stolen information about my opponent. he didn't tell the government. >> i'm not disagreeing with the word. >> the president of the united states who is acting in the

interest against the united states is strange to think that's something the american people should forget or democrats should apologize for paying attention to. do i think we can talk about the issue of corruption while connecting it to what matters to the american people? what's happening in the agencies right now where lobbyists are absolutely running rough shot and what's happening with health care where the pharmaceutical companies are back in the driver's seat right now. i absolutely agree that democrats should be talking about the way this corrupt administration is hurting american families. i don't think we should apologize for telling the truth about what happened over the past two years. >> i don't disagree about the serious issues having been raised by the mueller report. the bottom line is what americans heard for almost two years is the president colluded with a foreign adversary. >> i think donald trump was saying no collusion, but there were dozens of other indictments about things that should be worrying. >> 37 indictments and a number of guilty pleas and a conviction

by trial, none of them for the charges of conspiracy. the russians for hacking and none for conspiracy. the majority of them for the charges of lying and when it comes to paul manafort and financial crimes. we can debate it here. here's what democrats are doing on this issue. democrats are noticeably trying to talk about something else. i asked senator blumenthal at 2:00 p.m. today and the first thing out of his mouth is i want to talk about policy and health care and infrastructure. listen to a number of others today as well. >> this is actually an opportunity for us to speak to the american people with clarity. 20 million people will lose their health care. >> candidates across the country were talking about kitchen table bread and butter pocket book issues while some in this town were obsessed with the russian investigation. >> we know how important it is to uphold the law, but right now i can get you what people are

talking about at home is i don't want to lose my health insurance and be kicked off because i have a preexisting condition. >> steve in. >> you saw pelosi before this mueller summary came out a couple of days ago. pelosi said impeachment barring something unforeseen is off the table here. i saw jim clyburn saying democrats in the house in his view consider this closed. there is a recognition among democrats like that. leaders in washington and folks looking ahead to 2020. if you look at the last couple of years and the politics of all of the attention paid to the russia investigation, you can't really make an argument it hurt democrats, but all the times that you can look at the media. the trump presidency in collapse. the walls are closing in. every one of the gotcha moments, presidency in crisis moments is do not correlate to a crash in his poll numbers.

where did you actually see a change in donald trump's poll numbers. it has been a limited range it operated in for the last two plus years. when you saw movement is when health care came to a head. when you had democrats making the argument and they wanted to make it. there is a recognition with the leadership class and political leadership class that that's the turf. they see an opportunity that it might move away from russian agent and collusion and family members being indicted, but will the rest of the party and the democratic allies in media if you want to say that, go with them. >> that's why the white house pivoted towards health care instead of sticking on the issue of russia. the president and his team made it clear and steve bannon and an ally of the president will use russia as a political bludgeon. 2018 on the campaign trail, i didn't hear voters talk about

russia. the majority were talking about health care. the most important issue for 2018 was health care. 41%. immigration, 23%. the economy, 22%. gun policy 10%. what do you think of this idea or this -- would it be the one of the thing in the world for the president politically speaking for 2020 if everybody stopped talking about russia? >> well, katie, i think people will stop talking about russia eventually, but right now for trump and his base, they see russia as a way to galvanize in a sense of victim hood and grievance. trump is at his most comfortable politically when he has an enemy and he can point to some institution or group of people who are out to get him. he can point to the intelligence community establishment and the media for having been out to get him on russia for two years and

trump is saying to his base, look, i did nothing wrong here. these guys were out to get me. you have to come defend me and have my back. that's a powerful political argument according to the president's advisers and it's one they will continue to make. whether that lasts all the way to the election two years from now, that's a long way away. in this moment it's a live issue. >> it falls in line with what he did at the end of the campaign when he said the system is rigged and there is a experience to keep me out of office. what he has is this evidence in his mind or supporters's mind and you can argue about it, but what he will try to use for the russia investigation is evidence that he was -- there was a experience to take him oust office. if the democrats dropped it in total, dropped it in congress and dropped it on the campaign trail and i'm not saying that's the best thing for the country to drop an obstruction or corruption investigation, but if they dropped it, does that take the wind out of trump's sails?

>> the sooner they drop it, the democrats have 16 months to focus on issues that voters care about and come up with an agenda that will be winning against trump. every minute spent obsessing about what barr may or may not have said is a wasted minute for democrats. >> heather? >> there is truth to that, but we need to talk about something more important and more enduring than just the politics of today. let's be clear, the democrats have not been doing much about russia. it's been the media. there is a new indictment every three weeks and we keep getting reports and facts about 37 people and 100 contacts. it has been the media having this conversation. if the southern district of north kornew york continues to provide more information, of course the media is going to cover it. the democrats wanted very, very much to keep the conversation about health care and the conversation about a better deal and for the people agenda and hr

1 on democracy, they have been trying to put forward a positive agenda. it's something massively unusual. >> it has been covered a lot, but when democrats took back control of the house, they issued 81 document requests to various people in the trump administration and made obstruction a thing they want to investigate. there has been talk of subpoenas and adam schiff is talking about it in the intelligence. it's not just the media. it is democrats in congress as well. we will get back to this. phil, thank you very much. steve, brett, and heather, you are coming back. the justice department is "saturday night live"ing they could release a version of the report in a matter of weeks, democrats are demanding to see the whole thing in one week. the key questions that can only be answered with the full report. abenswered with the full report intelligence, covering virtually every part of your healthcare business. so that if she has a heart problem & the staff needs to know, they will & they'll drop everything can you take a look at her vitals?

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>> right now the message should

be let us see this report. >> here's what i would do. number one, release the report. >> i would like to see the entire report. that would be helpful. >> i want the report disclosed as much as possible. >> we are all hopeful that consistent with the overwhelming public sentiment of the public people, the full and complete mueller report will be released. >> calling for the full release, the justice department said they will take weeks and not months for the attorney general make the mueller report public. that would clear up unsolved mysteries raised from barr's four-page account of the report raised this weekend. joining me now there still so

many open questions. what is out there. what we have seen with indictments and guilty pleas and reporting, we don't know if there was any compromising. why there was a question why donald trump asked donald trump if you are listening, there was so much out there. for you, what is the burning question. >> i'm bothered by how the russians may have influenced the elections using americans or data from americans. we don't know why manafort gave this data to killiment nick who is a russian operative and did that data get used by russians to target americans. the open question about cambridge analytica and trump

tower and betsy devos's company and alpha bank in russia. what was being transmitted? was it data? and again, even if there is no collusion, there was clearly an interest in cooperation if not outright cooperation. >> you have the questions, but mueller according to barr's summary makes it clear. we haven't seen a full sentence. it seems to exonerate the president on the question of collusi collusion. the investigation did not establish that members of the trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the russian government in election interference activities. the special counsel was defined as an agreement tas et or expressed between the trump campaign and the russian government on election interference.

are you looking into the precise wording. what he is saying you couldn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. it wasn't prosecutable. this is why we need an independent commission. there is a big story. it's not just about the legal parsing and the legal arguments here. it's about the bigger picture. it's about the intent and what actually happened. it's never been written out for the american people. i doubt we will get that from the mueller report. >> ben, what do you expect to see when bill barr releases more of the mueller report the feeling that it's probably not bad for the president. what that means. how bad it is from total vindication to something that could be very politically

damaging, but simply not a prosecutable case on the collusion side. that's anybody's guess. they would have to be a little bit concerned if he were to write the summary. they misled people about the consequences to him and representation when that came out. i assume that the account is not inaccurate in any material respect. it does accommodate a huge range of possibility, including as evelyn said, the change of possibility from real vindication to something like we saw a whole lot of evidence of collusion, but we couldn't establish it to the standards of the criminal law.

i don't know what to expect in that regard. on the obstruction side, it's clear that mueller found substantial misconduct. he considered it a real question whether that should be treated as a criminal matter and eventually for reasons that are not clear decides not to decide, but lays out all the facts and so on that front, i expect that the reality of the report will be quite damaging for the president, frankly. >> do you believe that mueller didn't make a determination on obstruction because he ultimately thought that determination was going to be a political one and it's one that congress should take up or that he didn't make a determination on obstruction because he wanted bill barr or rod rosenstein to do so based on the evidence that he presented?

>> we don't know. barr definitely took the view in the letter that mueller had deferred to him. that's the way he framed the letter. but the letter does not quite say that that's what happened. what it said is that mueller didn't make this decision is not making it and left it open for the attorney general. he proceeded to make his own judgment. there is a few possibilities where y they did not pass on this. he was leaving it open for the attorney general. the barr letter suggests. the second possibility is that there at least really two reasons why you might make the judgment said hey, it's more of a judgment for congress than it is a judgment for prosecutors. one is that the justice

department's position is that the president can't be indicted while he remains in office at all. if he is going to be judged, he is going to be judged in impeachment by congress and not an executive branch prosecutor. the other reason and it's a more complicated one is that the opication of the obstruction of justice statutes to presidential conduct in managing the executive branch is a genuinely complicated question. >> the other questions that are still out there are why did so many of his contacts continue to lie about contacts with russia and why the president met with vladimir putin in helsinki and didn't want anybody else in the room. what if any impact did the president try to pursue a ro trump tower in moscow have on his outlook in the presidential election. what happened at the convention

in 2016? why was that plank of the republican platform changed? is it all just a bunch of coincidences? can you explain just simply the president just really likes russia and vladimir putin? >> no. the narrative that you could produce is not a legal narrative. -it's real world and that narratives started to put together. he wants to do business with putin and russia and when he gets out of the white house eventually. he set it up like that. he is making nice with putin because it's part of business. all along the way, it didn't matter to him whether he gave in on the ukraine platform. we are not going to defend ukraine. he signed away the goal line to israel yesterday, which he can't. he might try something like that with crimea. >> maybe the explanation is he

wants a business deal. he's very public about it. evelyn and ben. you got life after this, guys. thank you very much. coming up, the chairman said he wants bill barr to testify. we will speak to a democrat who i'm sure has a lot of questions she would like to ask him. that's next. she would like to a. at's next. welcome to the place where people go to learn about

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>> health care is back at the center of the political debate where democrats want it to be. >> this is an opportunity to speak to the americans with clarity. >> speaker nancy pelosi's call on the affordable care act. >> preexisting conditions will not be a barrier to them receiving the health care they need. >> we cannot accept efforts to roll back to have affordable meaningful health insurance. >> i can bet you people are thinking i don't want to lose my insurance. >> democrats won control on the strength of their health care message and it has been a hot

topic on the trail this year. >> everybody should be able to get health care. >> health care is a basic human right. >> there is a debate among candidates for the policy and no debate that most voters would rather talk about that than robert mueller. we will be back with more "mtp daily" after this. with more "mtp daily" after this. only a tiger costume, we're finally going on the trip i've been promising. because with expedia, i saved when i added a hotel to our flight. ♪ so even when she outgrows her costume, we'll never outgrow the memory of our adventure together. unlock savings when you add select hotels to your existing trip. only when you book with expedia. you might or joints.hing for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish,

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welcome back. if president trump wants the republican party to be known as the party of health care, that may just be fine to democrats. after all, just 37% of americans approve of president trump's handling of health care according to a receint fox news poll and 50% had a favorable view of the affordable care act compared to 39% according to another recent poll. mazie hirono is a member of the

senate judiciary committee. thank you very much for joining us. in talking about health care, how do you want to frame the argument? what is your message to the american voters for 2020 on the issue of health care? >> when donald trump said that he was going to make sure that everyone gets health care that, amounts to big fat zeros. the same attorney who handed trump a gift with the mueller report and obstruction of justice handed him the seeds of republican defeat in saying that they are going to challenge the entire affordable care act's constitutionality. millions of people will lose their health care and not be able to afford it and obviously will be hugely damaging to people who have preexisting conditions, which by the way, you are about to join the ranks of by having a baby. >> kellyanne conway was asked

about health care and said we are celebrating the ninth year of obamacare and there are close to 30 million americans with no coverage. what would you say in response to that? >> that would be should be expanding and not trying to eliminate for millions of people which is exactly what trump and his administration has been doing. to think that just a few days ago, trump is carrying on against john mccain for casting the deciding vote to save the affordable care act. when you talk about wanting to eliminate health care, they had a large part in that because they have been sabotaging the affordable care act at every turn. they sabotage the affordable care act and an attorney general who announced after many of us on the judiciary committee asked him to reconsider the department's position and instead of challenging the act,

defend the act like they usually do with regard to enactments by congress. he goes in the opposite direction. well, if i were trump and the republicans i wouldn't be so happy. as you said, health care matters to everybody regardless of whether you are a republican or a democrat. the number one issue that we all have been hearing about and believe me, we are all going to do everything we can. we democrats will make sure health care is a right and not a privilege. >> if the republicans come up with a plan to replace it, is there a scenario where you can see working with them in a good faith effort to replace obamacare for something that adds coverage to 30 million people? >> i don't know how they will come up with a plan that does that. earlier they did have a plan that was supposed to be their replacement for the affordable care act that cuts back on the coverages and it would have a

decrease in the number. that's not where they want to go. they want the affordable care act that was a good faith effort. i worked on it as a member of the house. it was many, many more millions covered and protected people with preexisting conditions that had never been the case. whatever they can come up with, they have not succeeded yet. they have gone the opposite direction. >> you want to see william barr in the judiciary committee. what do you want to ask him? >> before we get barr, we need to see the report. all we have is a four-page summary. we need a basis in which to question barr and that basis would be the mueller report. he needs to make that available to congress as well as the american people. >> you are going to ask after the report comes out, not before? >> we need a basis. how are we going to ask him

questions that we don't have the report? when he testified he said he would do everything he could to be transparent and we want him to do that. >> what about mueller? what would you want to ask? >> when we get the report, i would like to focus on those parts of mueller's analysis, on obstruction of justice. we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears all the ways that trump tried to sideline and in my view, obstruct this investigation from the get go. >> on the green new deal, there was a procedural motion today. why did so many democrats vote present instead of yes for it? >> this was just a sham so-called debate by mitch mcconnell. he wanted to divide the democrats. the bottom line is the green new deal is an aspirational document that said we recognize the

science behind climate change unlike trump and the climate denier who is want to make believe that climate change is not happening and all of the growing number of natural disasters that are taking people's lives and costing our cities and our businesses and people billions of dollars. which as we speak, we are going to be dealing with the disaster relief package because of all of these many, many disasters, natural disasters that hit us more frequently with greater impact. >> isn't that an argument you made to vote yes for it? mcconnell may be making it a show vote, but you are one of the coauthors of it. if you believe this is something even if it's aspirational that needs to be done, take a stand and vote yes for it. here's what the democrats stand for. we don't care that it's a show vote. it seems like you are trying to have it both ways and not be

hung by it politically and not say you don't support it. >> i disagree with you, katie. why should we engage in the shenanigans that mitch mok connell is good at? he's going to keep doing that and he will try to divide the democrats. he said that. he's shoving as many of the totally ideological driven judges through a court package that he can. he said that, too. if we can engage in a responsible debate. i will welcome that debate. that's not what's happening. i won't be a fool to his shenanigans. why should any of us. the people should have a real debate. i was on the floor talking about climate change and the need to recognize the science and let's not keep sticking our head in the sand. i referred to an 11-year-old girl from hawaii who.

>> 'tis paparticipated in a cli change rally. she sees what's happening and she wants the adults, that would be us in the senate to step up and do the right thing and she said save the planet for us. this is an 11-year-old girl. the young people get it. the people who don't are the climate deniers who are so tied to the fossil fuel who is can't see the climate through the trees. i welcome a real debate. >> senator mazie hirono from hawaii. thank you very much. >> the issue that could redraw the map of american politics. literally. redraw the map of american politics literally. ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪ ♪ and you never felt this type of emotion ♪

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it's time for someone to look out for us. congress, stop the greed. cut drug prices now. >> jerry mappedering is a problem that was let go for too long and reared its ugly head where it's dividing us as a nation. >> it's so sophisticate and we see the extremes left and right. that's why nothing is getting done. obviously. >> it's not every day that an issue brings together eric holder and arnold schwarzenegger. it's an issue where the battle lines have been drawn. literally. gerrymandering are at issue. when does redistricting become

so black and white eptly political that it violates the constitution? they are redrawn to give the party in power a political advantage that locked in an advantage for republicans in north carolina when they gave an extra seat to democrats in maryland. pete williams report that is the supreme court seems likely to leave the issue of partisan upon gerrymandering to the states even though liberal members were open to finding a way to strike down excessive examples of partisan gerrymandering. a decision in both of today's cases will be issued by late june. the why one democrat who wants to be president is decrying the green new deal. decrying the green new deal

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deal. a show vote, show vote, mcconnell led it in the senate and in order to back the democrats into a corner, to make them say yes to a proposal that the republicans want to hang them by in 2020 why do the democrats if they as chuck schumer said want to own the issue of the environment and of climate change push back and say, yeah, i'm happy to own this? why would they -- >> i think democrats oftentimes don't have the courage of their convictions until somebody sort of makes them do it. i say that as a proud democrat. that said, i think who was really showing up today was the republican party. mike lee of utah put boards up that said the solution to climate change is to have more babies which makes zero sense whatsoever and what they're miss something that millennials in the republican party are way out ahead of the republican elected official class right now so they're losing their own youth which, you know, they are doing on many issues but no more than climate change. >> the science is there.

i mean, the science is there. it's not disputed. was the mistake of the green new deal to put too much into it and talk about a universal basic wage and make it too aspirational and not focus on the things that should get done immediately? >> just briefly can i say, the attack on climate change solutions is that it's going to damage the economy. i think the vision and the brilliance of the idea of a green new deal is to say this is is going to be an entire upheaval and winners and losers and we have record inequality and automation and global competition and let's make our families more secure. >> there is a reason dodds voted present. it's the millennials in the democratic party, aocs who are way ahead of the nancy pelosis of party, that's why nancy pelosi gave it the -- what's it called the seal clap when it was first proposed. when it comes to climate change

there is the question of causes, all in agreement about that then there's the question of what the cures are, what the solutions are and what the cost is going to be. and the problem is that the green new deal imposes absolutely prohibitive costs and makes the issue a republican, fra frankly, a republican issue and say, look, these democrats are talking about the apocalypse. it will bankrupt the economy if we go through with their proposed solutions so what democrats need to be doing is talking about cost affordable solutions, technologies that exist today that actually have economic benefits rather than simply say we need to get rid of fossil fuels. >> the science is there and it's hard to argue with the science. when you look at the report put out by the u.n., the congressional report put out, the science says that if swift action is not taken and big actions are not taken quickly then we're not going to be in a good position in 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 years. we don't have the luxury of coming up with a slowiz slow ea

into a new version of our economy. the science is not making the argument you're makeing. >> what you're saying in effect is that we need to go on something like a war footing against a climate change -- >> that's what the u.n. scientists are saying. >> hold on. >> that's not me. that's people who study this are saying. >> let's separate it this. is something like a question of there could be a fire in your house, we have to take out fire insurance. that is a sensible thing to say. >> fight the fire. >> what you can't say is we're going to bankrupt ourselves in the process of ensuring ourselves against the potential risk. >> it is an issue for millennial voters and will be brought up by democrats, jay inslee is running on it entirely. >> with the democratic coalition the types of voters you're describing, a lot of energy hind this and behind the idea of, hey, you either heard some of these democrats say it this is

our world war ii so i think you've got an instinct on the part of some democrats to nod to it. this idea of voting present saying they're conceptually for it but a recognition that if that's what it is going to be and talking about legislation that reorder the economy, legislation that would entail pretty massive disruption and a lot of parts of people's everyday live, reminds me of the debates we've had over health care. we're conceptually you found this in the '90s and in advance of the obama passage in 2010. conceptually broad support for universal health care and revulsion at the idea that tens of millions are uninsured and put the plan on the table and say this is what it could mean to your health care and your family and that's when you start to see the politics of those issues change. the politics on climate change could change when you talk about those. >> one more question on gerrymandering. how would that change if the supreme court rules on

gerrymandering or allowed the states to rule on it how would it change our electoral maps? >> the big if there, if the supreme court did say, look this, is unconstitutional you need to come up with some kind of specific quantitative criteria. you can look at it and say i know this is a gerrymander and i know the intent. how do you define quantitatively, is it 11% more democratic than the statewide. if it's 9%, is it not -- where do you draw that line? the interesting thing that came out of it pete williams was talking about it, there's so much activity in the states now, the court may say we'll let the states figure it out. >> steve, brett and heather, thank you so much. we will be right back.

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