axios.com. >> that does it for us this morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> nobody knows hoose not worth 10 billion. i think he's only worth 7. i'm actually worth more than 10. >> they're under audit, they have been for a long time. they're extremely complex. people wouldn't understand them. >> i went through an ivy league college. i was a niece that's threatened his high school, colleges and the college board not to release his grades or s.a.t. scores. >> there was no collusion with russia, there was no obstruction, none whatsoever. it was a complete and total exoneration. >> he also added this tweet, he

said maybe we should just take our victory lap and say no, we've got a country to run, as he's talking about not actually releasing the full report. >> as noted on twitter, he's a billionaire but you can't see his taxes. he's a genius, but you'll never see his grades and he's exx exonerat exonerated, except he's not. that's the one thing we do know the report says. good morning, welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, april 1st. we have white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire, from princeton eddie glaude june, the author now an nbc national security analyst to the dccc and former director of strategic communications for

hillary clinton's presidential campaign and she's also an msnpc contributor. good to have you all on board this morning. well, it didn't zob that actually getting somebody who will act like roy cohn as an attorney general of americans believe he's been exonerated. if i'm not mistaken, and maybe i am, i think that number's actually gone down since the mueller report. still, it means even some of his most hard-core supporters that really do follow him in this swirl of a personality cult don't even believe him. isn't that crazy? you are exactly right. he's a billionaire, so he

claims. i don't even know if he's a millionaire after all the debt have i ever met anybody that's actual le intelligent in a goes around telling you that they're intelligent? i've met a lot of stupid people who try to convince me by telling me how smart they are, but it's and he just wasn't a good student and everybody knows he wasn't a good student. exonerated when we all know he's not. it is remarkable that he always tries to change the subject to before the election, he tried to change it to caravans, he tried to make up stories about disease-ridden foreigners coming

to our lands, having tried, this you went along with the lies and up had the worst loss in the history of the united states republic. your midterm loss, you lost by more votes than any party ever has. and it just keeps going on and on. so now he's talking about he's going to close off the border. listen, we don't care what you say, donald, okay? we know it's all a scam. and voters know it's all a scam. and most importantly, mika, only 29% of americans believe that he's exonerated. he says he's not playing games. he is playing games. >> well, and this -- >> and the games don't work. you lose.

rabs guess what for just getting your political heads knocked off your shoulders. couldn't have gone worse for you. that's donald trump's republican party. and now it's happening again. you want to try to stop us from seeing what's in the mueller report? and donald trump thinks he can change the topic? can't change the topic. mika, he says he's not playing games, he's playing games but it's a game he ultimately loses. >> it's interesting because this branding exercise he's been working on for years now, no collusion, now fully exoj rated. multiple shows show has to what

they know of the mueller report with just 29% saying it clears trump and 40% saying it does not with the rest unsure. since we haven't seen it, those numbers actually bear out to common sense. this as a "washington post" poll told respondents that the president and mueller had made different claims on exonerations and asked who do you believe more? only 32% said they believed trump's claim of total exoneration, while 61% agreed with mueller's report of no exoneration. again, joe, if you'll remember in attorney general barr's letter, which i guess he says isn't a summary because it's too difficult to summarize 400 pages. >> he changed his mind. not a summary now. >> one of the very few quotes he uses from the mueller report is

that this is not an exoneration so and did i see this weekend? it's unyou know, it doesn't matter whether it was unethical, him talking to the russians as much as he did. we're not talking about whether it's uneth cat or not. of course it was unethical. >> is this mick? >> here's mick. >> what do you think about his larger point that the actions were unethical? >> keep in mind that everything that adam just talked about. i know and am, served and yet mr. mueller found no collusion

and no crime. >> what about the ethics and morality of these things? >> the issue here is not whether it's ethical. >> you're setting the bar on criminal karjs and you're saying that's not himself job. but to getting a. >> he's talking about adam schiff. >> yeah, he's talking about adam schiff but tom nichols, ethics and more ralt obviously stopped mattering to this administration and a lot of republican voters a long time ago. here you have the white house backed into a corner thinking from an attorney general who is acting actually more like roy

cohn, what donald trump wanted his attorney general doing, defending him first instead of the american people. and those numbers are abhorrent for donald trump. you want to explain why only 29% of americans believe that the report exxon are it's a. >> well, because the report says it doesn't exonerate him. but the scary thing buried in those numbers is that when you start to matrix that against people that are going to vote we no but at least from what we know of the barr summary, this didn't cop collusion conspiracy

but the condition tabt with the russians were belongand i think part of the problem is that we're asking this social security about the bar summary, but in the pnd you could come out tomorrow and say okay, he did it, he talked with russians but it wasn't illegal. but you just had him coming out and saying pish-posh, let's leave it to somebody else. the danger is if the president did something wrong with the russians, even if that endangers national security, we don't care, he's our guy, we're going to stick with him. >> and jonathan lemire, the red

sox were demolished on the west coast and we're now trailing the baltimore orioles and only about 158 more games to go behind the baltimore orioles. we'll get to that in a minute. let's talk first about the white house. the president has to be terribly frustrated that this letter comes out, he thinks his attorney general word smiths it just right. he so was thrilled yesterday -- last week that he sent out, i forget, god bless tiny tim or happy birthday america or whatever he said last weekend in his tweet when he woke up realizing what his attorney general was going to do for him. a week later he's back where he started. what's the white house reaction and what should we expect the president do next? >> the white house telegraphed what was going to happen even

before barr's summary came down. they were going to that i can this report and use it as a politic political the president came off as both vindictive and vindicated, that's what he was trying to sell. >> jonathan, that's what they've been thinking for weeks, and you reported that even before it came out but it's not working. the poll numbers show it's not working. 29% of americans believe him. the rest, no thanks. over 60% of "the washington post" poll don't believe him. his approval ratings went down 3

points in "the wall street journal" poll. went down three points. what's the next move? >> those numbers show the risk of this strategy. there are people around the president who have always been a little concerned about this idea, thinking the attacks on mueller, linking democrats to it, would have a pretty short shelf life and those numbers, obviously it's still only a, that there's a limit to what they can do here. when the president is not the most trutworthy character in a lot of things, it remains to be seen whether this is going to be an effective tactic to take this and weaponize it going forward. this is not going away from the headlines any time soon. the democrats have given a deadline to barr, i believe it's tomorrow, to give him the and do

we suspect the investigation, could that be don jr., could that be jared kushner? if that's the case, democrats are not going to take that down. >> for one wook we've heard how it's the end of journalism, it's the end of the democratic party because of a letter. you actually have people that have been writing lectures in columns saying -- there was this wall street journal editorial yesterday, i forget who the op-ed writer was, who said you can't jump to conclusions. they're all jumping to conclusions before we actually read the mueller report. let me bring you in, adrienne.

mayor pete just reported $7 million raised. >> wow. >> $7 million raised. >> okay. i'm sure you've heard it. we've heard it. it's kind of what people said about barack obama in 2007, you know what, this is good for america. butch he's really cool. here's what we been harring does this man we need to start considering him a top-teerd candidate. >> i think so, joe. he's polling at 11% in iowa, which is ago leap from where he was earlier in the race. he's had these big moments. last week on morning joe, he had

he's on fire. one of the things he really has going for him is because he's being considered to an potentially. looks like he's moving into frun are status. he's the mayor of a which is a lot going are effectively don mcgahn until the first debate and the prz dengs primary. . and and you're going to see more people releasing their first quarter numbers. march 31st was the deadline for the first quarter and i think potentially you're going to see more candidates get into this race, given that a lot of people

were waiting for this first key deadline to the sort of gut response -- i think he's in his late 30s, which is what i think everyone thinks beto is. actually, that's why adrienne's in dallas, and you think he's too young then he opens his mouth and then he starts talking, and i have not seen him a other than the fact in a most people who listen to him are blown away. >> i think this is so great for american politics.

that actually merit does count. it's not just p. rnchs machines whipping people into frenzies. >> he's punching through and he's doing a great job. let me ask you really quickly, adrienne, about the joe biden du dust. >> i didn't hood m. -- one girl who spent his entire adult life fighting for the things the democratic party has been fighting for. through the tragedy of losing his wife and losing because he's notnm an article is written

suggesting hoose a mi soj that looks look kras and there are the majority of good democrat kprp can joe biden's challenges as a can't, and i don't think he's the lock that everybodyou e running againstdr, to frn did. but you got to think about it this way -- joe biden has been in office since he was 29 years old. he's run for president twice before. if he runs again, this will be his third time, but also his

third time he's ever run as a frun are going into the race. weep saw this with hillary clinton in 2015 before she decided to run. the daggers are out. i think you're going to keep hearing more people with their own viewpoints from both the left and the right, who are trying to frame joe biden in a way that's just simply not true. the thing that he also has become but try to pain him as should he decide to run is that he will be going into this race as a top it depending on how long he waits, we're going to keep seeing more articles written about him and opposition research coming out to try to

frame him and the attacks of joe biden. >> you know, i think this is a very extensive and careful conversation that we need to have. coming up we have a three-hour show, we can have it here. we'll play the comments that lucy flores made to kasie hunt last night. is. try and understand where this conversation go he is extremely affectionate and flirtati completely safe way. i am sure that somebody construe

something he's done. but as much as i can know what's in anyone's heart, i don't think there as a lat nm, knowing he never meant anything from it other than to be kind. >> we've seen it on television, mika. she's describing a lot. we've had clips of him. late-night comics have had clips of him. he's always been very expressive and he's always been very expressive in public. it's not like he's hiding anything. >> maybe there's a conversation that could be had about whether or not those expressions are okay today. but the latest thing that we saw on medium was an article by stephanie carter, ash carter's wife. i ran into her in an airport the

months ago because she was will the rahal she's literally changing because of that conversation it she kept hearing from all of her friends that they saw her in the paper and they saw her on tv and she thought it was about her new business. >> she was being used -- >> here it is all about a friendly exchange, joe biden, when she fell down and joe biden thanked her. it was completely misunderstood and she finally had to take to pen and paper saying this did not happen to me. this is not a me-too moment, this is not the joe biden that i know. are we really going to do this?

democrats, you have to ask yourself. what exactly is it's an important line. it is very important. >> we just saw last week somebody writing in "the atlantic" about the mistake that was made regarding al franken, that everybody jm this when we have the man that we have in the white house to whowhile that guy is laughing at us? it's certainly something to think about. >> we'll talk about this more and listen to all sides. jeremy bash, we need to get to you, especially on the rote of the good evening deng dom of

jeff john mccain this inwe're going to talk to eddie glaude. >> "the washington post"'s headline "for trump's party of health care, there is no health care plan, unlike some of his other this is going to be the show for physics. woo going it i don't like the lawsprofessors. "morning joe", the place for physics. >> we'll be right back. >> is that a philosophy? >> is that a philosophy? us as people. they see us as profits.

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it was just so sudden and unaware and came from nowhere. i felt these hands on my shoulders and i'm thinking, okay, that's odd, the vice president of the united states is touching me. but, you know, nothing i guess too out of the ordinary, but then i felt him get closer. he leaned in and was like right behind me on my body. and he leans down, smells my hair and then plants this big, long kiss on the top of my head. and it just happened so suddenly, i really didn't even know how to respond. in my brain i just kept thinking the vice president of the united states is smelling me, the vice president of the united states is touching me, he's kissing me and i just don't know what to do. i kind of felt frozen. >> do you think the intentions of the vice president at the time count for anything, if he did not have malicious or ill-considered intentions? that's essentially what he's

saying in his statement, or do you think that doesn't matter? >> that doesn't matter. the intention -- and for the record, i don't believe that it was a bad intention. i'm not in any way suggesting that i felt sexual assaulted or sexually harassed. i felt invaded. i felt that there was a violation of my personal space. >> violated. are we're back? that was lucy flores. all right, thanks for letting me know. so she felt violated is the word she uses. that was lucy flores, the 2014 democratic nominee for lieutenant governor of nevada, detailing her allegation about joe biden's conduct and describing what he says happen at a can ent he responded saying, quote, in my many years

nn the campaign trail and in public life have i offered countless handshakes, hugs, expressions of affection, support and comfort and not once never dibelieve i acted inappropriately. if it is suggested i did, i will less the same way and i may be be surprised with what i heard and we're at a time where women and men and msnbc has reviewed correspondence that she discussed the incident and happened around she when descend

upon this moment, metoo, whatever we're going to call it, things are changing. the and the way thanksgiving change their approach, perhaps even change their entire behavior, which is not a bad thing. we're evolving as a society. but i guess what concerns me about this is the political nature of this announcement of this behavior, of this violation so to speak. what's your reaction to her story? >> so we have to take seriously any claim, i think, about the invasion of personal space. >> for sure. absolutely. >> we saw, for example, in the debate between donald trump and hillary clinton when he hovered behind her and many people that's just a poured violation

is kind of strong but i want to take seriously of that. and we're in a moment of a cultural shift. it means the lines are blurried. we haven't quite settled on this evening and so i think what james crow agriculture, under peacekeeper and people who were raised and reared under one set of conditions have to now figure out how to live under a different suggestions. so we're in this we're going to pak forecast there's the

opposition researches that ra l rahal. but i want to say, this too, i think there's some lazy thinking that happens in our society that relies on labels. instead of us thinking in a nuanced, complex way, it's easier to call someone a rausist, a misogynist, it's easier to throw out he's and part of what this transmission we have to be careful, deliberate and nuanced because a lot is at stake. >> prp number one, he was vice president for eight years. most people just say, yes,

mr. vice president, thank you, mr. vice president. he goes around the country and people are so excited to meet him. i'm sure if someone came up to me, be he doesn't get that realtime pub back. he's been never over the years to be very affectionate, flirtati flirtati flirtationyou've done such a good job this morning of striking that nuance between what's appropriate and what it like to really connect with people versus a as eddie monday where there, one of the thanksgiving that we love so mu

muchthat who, he has a very unique ability to connect with people. he's charismatic, he's empathetic. and that is a strength. since the story came out from lucy florese, his team has donea good job reinforcing him as someone who has empowered women and focused on making the women's voices who work for him heard and empowering them as a staff member. >> right. >> they've done a very good job of playing that up. but also, again, we are in a cultural shift. so much i think he's probably his team is acknowledging that things are moving a little bit. >> i think he's acknowledging it. and i'm sure and i because he

knows stephanie carter very well and she would make it very clear that was not a me too and she felt very strongly about that. in but to adrian's point about his charisma, about pb floating, if i can use the word, the mothers are congressman and congresswoman and this this is vintage joe biden. he loves that connection with people. he loves to make people feel comfortable to show his warmth p warmth, he is openness. and in the age of me bill

belichi belichick. f. and those of us who know stephanie carter know she's a professional, brilliant -- >> tough. >> strong-willed person. if anyone were going to call out inappropriate behavior, she would be prepared to do it. she writes about in that piece on the day ash carter was announced to be the next secretary of defense, she slipped in front of the ice before had the and he put his arms

armsin and. and to your point he's being -- what is happening is we're defining down me, too. if water it done. >> jeremy, stay with us. woring it obviously everybody that watchs lop murdered a "washington post" columnist, chopped him up with a chain saw, had that ordered, killed him. . and they aggressively reported on the story that the saudi arabian crown prince didn't like what a "washington post" journalist was doing, so they

killed him. then they started attacking jeff bezos and jeff bezos' most personal details wind up in a "national enquirer" story. >> so he owns -- >> yes, bezos owns "the washington post." we know who owns the national enquirer. so. so the investigation has been done and the results, pretty shocking. according to this investigation, it seems that the saudis actually had hacked into jeff bezos's phone because he is an enemy of but because hewe're

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mohammed bin salman ordered the torture and the killing of jamal khashoggi, "the washington post" columnist, with a bone saw. i apologize for getting that wrong. the crown prince of saudi arabia ordered the torture and the killing of "the washington post" columnist with a bone saw. >> so we're learning more about the role of the kingdom of saudi arabia and what it may have had in the hack and release of private and, issual tex messages between amazon eeo jf dws but it all comes to the quite simply think brother may have been

responsible for handing over the private information to "the national inquirer." however, in a lengthy article, the man in charge of bezos' investigation, gavin debecker, had access to bezos' odding that the kingdom's notive was to retaliate against the washington, which bezos fop it is unclear if ami was aware of how those compromising texts were originally obtained. he does not provide any hard evidence for his claims, noting that the details and ruts of his investigation have been turned over to federal officials. ami dismissed the claim saying

in a statement to cnbc was th that -- and ami reportedly short lonell many mr.vot. >> how did true to when turn out for a in the story and dr. don mcgahn fmt according to his investigation, the saudis hacked into and gained access to jeff bezos's personal information.

if that is the case, how damaging is that for the saudi government and for the "national enquirer" and ami? >> it's an astonishing allegation. on march 18th this year, "the wall street journal" reported that ami and david pecker aproved a $200,000 has soofd a hey in now along comes gavin debecker, who is a very well respected security professional. he's paid by jeff bezos. but i think he has some independent standing is the phone that rp nm. that they're poor, the saudis

took information from jf bezos' phone, compromising information, gave it to a.i. and that led to the publication in january of the description of the follows. in. it something that would seem on its face to. tom nichols, what is the impact if in fact this investigation bears fruit and it is proven that the saudis intentionally tried to hack i have. >> well, there's two things going on. one is we can't lose sight of the incredible fact that a tab loy that supports the president

sflrn, personally destroy the owner of a newspaper that the president hates at a tabloid directed bip an alloy of the f with the as soon as. in under in and one of the few backing him and wouldn't join that sfm first policy, first amendment, if that's true, to have a regime that what. for that supports the prz to go

after nm. in i mean, really, you couldn't write -- if you wrote this up as a robert ludlim nol el, the publisher would send it back to you as simply ununfantastic and unrealistic. you saw time and time given the. nm johnson. >> and earlier this week it was said that he was a russian spy and donald trump go iff saying if we were to al pou jazz to.

in i would go by cases of beer and sit and drink at mika's house all the time. >> sounds pretty good. >> but let's not become part of this story. i just like saying that because i've inform. fmt, but jonathan, irdigress a bit too much. so i'm just trying to give him th this. f is basically they felt like a wing of the campaign in 2015 and

2016, providing a lot of opposition research. ted cruz most in particular being the political opponent of then candidate trump, who was smeared by the kill" programs. and despite this brutal murder of jamal khashoggi, which is condemned globally, this administration has not backed off their highs to riyad whatsoever. we've seen secretary of state pompeo meeting with the crown prince, jared ksh has had there as puns and saudi arabia it the trum administration's middle east peace plan is going to look look. they've designed them services from saudi arabia, in fact, time and final again, crew i with

have in. >> oh my god. >> i don't drink beer. i'm up to one old fashioned every or other night, not much on alcohol, that's about it. and last block i said muhammed -- i said he ordered a bob woodward plus rul are the frmt. our next guest spent the weekend in iowa asking 2020 candidates to pitch their vision for rural america.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, april 1st. we have with us white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire, and nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of casey d.c. on msnbc and pulitzer prize winner for the result s.

pete buttigieg has raised $7 million since tweet adding that he is, quote, outperforming expectati expectation. >> more campaigns are expected to announce their fund-raising tallies today as this year's first quarter fund-raising ended yesterday. the 2020 candidates have until april 15th to release their fund-raising numbers. but this is impressive, joe, on so many levels because i feel like budget judge has he's 37 and the mayor of ut ppd and some of us may not like to recognize

this facthaving money matters. right now elizabeth warrant, if woo (sfchlt here with mayor pete you have a situation where aboutthat mabb moom th-- what's your take on mayor pete? what's officially washington's take on mayor pete? what does the president think of

mayor pete? >> joe, i would say he is the one candidate where i come away from conversations with sources with other reporters, i mean, you name it, everyone that interacts with him is just blown away by him. and that is not the case with basically any other candidate in this field. certainly many of them are very impressive people, they bring a lot to the table, but this is somebody you wouldn't necessarily think about right away as somebody playing on this stage and mayor pete acknowledged this himself but he's also said, hey, if you don't take that shot, perhaps it is what woo -- he's somebody who has not ruled out high dollar donors the way some other candidates have, but this shows you can really be competitive with small donors, through getting that buzz online. remember, niece ot in nn this is, as mika pointed out, an

exploratory committee. some have said maybe if there is one candidate who is the absolute opposite of donald trump, it's pete buttigieg. he embraces he has this intellectual persona. his answers are thoughtful, sometimes lengthy. he's the antithesis of a reality tv show president in so many ways. >>and jonathan la meyer, speaking of a reality tv show president? has donald trump attacked mayor pete yet? >> what is his name for. >> i don't want to know what himself name is for hp. he may be staying away from him for a will with he has heard people enside the white house, around the prz, i that really

looks like a rising star in every way. >> his rise has been so sudden and rapid, it's taken the white house by surprise as well. no, president trump has not commented about mayor pete just yet. but this number today, this fund-raising number will solidify him as someone who need to be taken seriously and the, beto o'rourke, a little bit on bernie sanders. he believes in is ability to zou this is an extremely striking showing. if from brark to pb certainly trump to mayor pete, getting ahead of or sefs, would be from

last block, speaking of money, breaking news, the red sox are about to sign an extension with commander bogaerts for $130 million, which is good they're looking for locking him up for year after year because they're highi eyeing the future with him already slipping away. >> i'm going to regret having him over for dinner. >> thank you, mika. >> i don't know why they signed chris sale. but that's neither here nor there. sometimes we have to rough it out. if i have to finish four this year, i'll be very happy. >> so as we talk about mayor pete, we look at the money, $7 million. he third in a roos ntand was actual will forthhad but with a

field with this many u.s. senators in it that have clear well for sure. >> through the summer and the fall. >> there remember donald trump loved holding up the polls throughout the campaign to show how he was doing. it's interesting he can look at them again this week, multiple polls in the last week show that attorney general william barr's summary of the special counsel's report has failed to lift the so-called cloud over president trump. the nbc news, wall street poll asked americans their pin base on what they know with the mueller report, saying it clears trump and 40% saying it does not with the rest unsure.

this as a "washington post" poll told respondents that the president and mueller had made different claims on exoneration. and who do you believe more? only 32% believed president trump's claim of total exoneration. there must have been -- a lot of this news is sort of like, whu, tum was there collusion. people have got to worry about their day-to-day lives and kitchen table issues and getting through today and tomorrow and getting their kid to school. but the one thing they did pick up from barr's letter, which he says now is not a summary. he says it would be difficult to summarize the rn with a lot of details in it and things that have yet to be revealed to the american people. in fact, the on thing that's been revealed in the attorney

general's letter, which is not a summary, is a quote from the report that robert mueller says in terms of obstruction that it is not an exxon rationeration. the president was trying to brand it as a complete exoneration. >> of course. and of course a lot of people on the right trying to take a victory lap. >> but there was no lap of victory to take. >> i know by organization my god if you've seen twitter one week after another after another saying this is the end of right-wing history, we win, they lose. >> here's what attorney general barr says, the report is nearly 400 pages long, exclusive of

tables and appendixes, and sets forth the special counsel's findings, his analysis and the reason for his conclusions. >> and he did no one any favors, even though it appears that's what he was trying to do. so, bob woodward, the president is in the same identical position he was before attorney general and the special counsel's investigation, twice as many people believe robert mueller as believe donald trump. he's sitting around 29% right now in these latest polls. what do you have make of that? >> well, first of all, barr did say that the mueller report shows it did not conclude that there was a crime on president trump's part. that's important. but of course as you keep pointing out and i think this is

right, this is an issue that's not going to go away. barr himself has said it's not over, that he's going to release more information. so there's so much that the idea that trump is out of the woods on this is just not true. but you need to also emphasize very strongly that mueller is saying he did not find a crime. he also said he did not exonerate trump. there is going to be great interest in the details that are released and greater interest in the details not released because people are going to try to chase them down.

mueller was working off stage for two years. there are 400 pages, there are indices, annexes and so forth. and then very, very important, the cases that have been handed off to the u.s. attorney in new york, that is --s th that's goio be working on its own. and, yes, barr as attorney general can supervise that but that is an operation up in new york notoriously independent. >> tom nichols, it's also very important to remember that the attorney general quoted the report and his conclusions -- the attorney general's conclusions were that the president did not commit a crime. the attorney general's conclusion was that on

obstruction he didn't commit a crime, but robert mueller said that he did not reach nip conclusion one way or the other. he's not exonerated, at the same time he wasn't in a position, again, to say whether he had or had not committed a crime. right now we are just looking through a dark glass and have no idea what robert mueller said. that's why any. >> i think one reason that the bar summary, i think one reason it's not getting a lot of traction is because of the way the republicans and the administration are acting about it. they're not acting like people who feel like they've been cleared. the attorney general is already walking things back. he puts out this four-page summary, which i think he knew his job. he had to control the narrative within 24 hours.

he did. but that didn't last very long. and then the president's supporters, you know, we always use the term overreach, but i'll use it. it was overreach. >> outrageous. >> it was crazy. they took one line and said the president's never done anything wrong with russia in any way, which i don't think is going to be -- first of all, i think we have plenty of evidence already in the record from multiple indictments that that's not true, and i think that what comes out of the mueller's report is going to affirm that. but then there's the president himself who can't just take a win as a win and he has to go to this realliy and he acts like a man who is terrified. i mean, i don't know what president's good at in terms of i'm not a businessman, he seems to have a talent for marketing, but i would love to play poker with the president because he's a walking bundle of tells. he goes to this rally and he's

kind of going on about it and making fun each faces and rolling his eyes, and i think, you know, for somebody who is arguing that he's just been vindicated, he's acting like a man who hasn't been vindicated at all and really seems quite scared. >>yeah. i mean, speaking of poker, he d did. he still looks nervous, he still looksage cat had had the have played their hand as badly as woo rather rab about donald trump has done nothing wrong. he's done nothing wrong on russia, there was no collusion with the russian government, which means he did never did anything inappropriately with any russian and there was never any compromise, et cetera, et

cetera. it has been nonstop. if there was a smart person leading that party, they would say be question this doesn't work for if they've lied about their contacts with russia, they've done inappropriate things, they've done compromising things and that's what we already know. >> reporter: joe, i think a sports analogy is apt here, which is to say even with an ugly win, a w is still a w. i don't think if you watched what happened, the republicans

calling add over the it was a really remarkable things tothey don't think the impeachment line or anything like that is necessarily a winning strategy. and you had people point out that it good for the country if the president did not in fact and we still have so much american we'll see if they hold up once the report comes out. >> yeah, we will see. >> and bob woodward, you studied donald trump up close for so long, through the campaign, through the transition, through

the presidency. i wonder if fact whether they're supportive of donald trump or damning of donald trump, he stays at his 329% of people believing him on the mueller investigation, which it was before the letter and it is now because he has created his own reality and both sides are dug in so much. >> it's not just creating reality. what i've tried to chart is the continuing, never ending nervous breakdown of the executive power in the white house and the trump presidency. but just as a matter of fact, joe, and you think it's important to be as factual as we can -- >> let's be factual, bob, definitely. >> in the barr letter, he quotes mueller's report in which

mueller says he, mueller, concluded that the president did not commit a crime. 6/but at the same time he was not exonerated. but this investigation by huler is and he was saying he could not prove or did not prove or conclude that in terms of criminal investigations. if you're donald trump and you can think this through, you'd say, wow, i dodged the big issue here. at the same time, as we keep saying and there is so much more to know and there are judgments that people are going to make on the facts. i hope this report and all the

annexes really do a chronology and explain what is known publicly, what they found in the grand jury or in their investigation on no way is it over but on the criminal front, this home for donald trump, it is. >> well -- >> hechl well, weep and of course the question that remains now, which of courserobert mueller said we can't come to a conclusion on the obstruction issue, mick mull veiny said that mueller wanted barr, suggested in the report that mueller wanted barr to come to that conclusion.

that that was a that would have bernie sanders robert mueller said we cannot be we can. >> well, mulvaney brought up a point that oncethe president faces president trump's approval ratings can guff frm, they have not seen a bounce of the special counsel's investigation. 43% approve, down 3 points from february. 53% disapprove. and with recent polls showing him losing states like michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania -- >> let me stop you right there. in wisconsin, his retlekt --

reelect in florida in the 30s. >> the president is looking at targeting campaigns that hillary won. state democrats have dominated in the top deck'd been where the office -- headlining the offensive is vice president mike pence. beep side virginia, trump campaign officials have discussed making a play in match colorado and new mexico, a state that trump lost by 8 points. meanwhile this weekend, some of the democratic presidential candidates participated o and

joining us, washington burrow chief, amanda who really shined? >> i think one thing to know is that amy clob sharr felt very comfortable there. very, very comfortable on this if and both the message that she and clob spkt breaking up these corporate consolidations you see taking over rural areas and putting a squeeze on family farmers, that went over really, really well with the progressive audience there. >> it the, she's the perfect

example of a candidate pap jm but that is the sort of candidate that does very well in places like iowa where you are go town by town, county by count oo, and up say she really made a good connection with the audience, as did elizabeth warren? >> exactly. you think ma, but what i was struck by is how many of these issues we're hearing about are also true in url areas. we got a lot questions from people concerned about guns and scoot shootings.

climate change was another one and then there are people who said look, i would, something like the high 50s or 5 the. she said i can't right now in part because of student loan at the time. >> all right. thank you so much, amanda. weep greatly appreciate you so, eddie, we were talking about states. donald trump was talking about expanding into. and i can't help but laugh. colorado? no way. new mexico, no way. virginia, not on your life. i don't care what happens in virginia on statewide election -- i mean, northern virginia has gone so deep blue.

>> right. >> there's just not going to happen. >> i thi that story is they're desperately looking to expand the map because they know they're in trouble in states like michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. >> i think the republican party and donald trump's campaign will make a deep, profound nekt if the leadership of virginia represents the anything of the grass roots of mass and so the scandals that are waning in some interesting ways and problematic ways and virginia will not have a bearing on that, exxon are iegs without the report. i'm pril yoon without the grades and so on. i'm beginning to this and then

when look behind the door, when you look behind the skreeb, can see a little smallin secure sfm namt before. >> i brought up that and also fitness. and some think i've gone too far. >> fitness? >> mental fitness. >> it's difficult when you talk about physical attributes. having said that, this is a president who locks people's physical at tu bud and still ahead on "morning joe."

>> we need the people to go out in the desert and patrol where we don't have any wall. we hate to say we told you so, but we told you so. >> we'll talk about that with representative veronica escobar. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ning joe." we'll be right back. hmmmm. ♪ rub-a-dub ducky... and then...there's national car rental. at national, i'm in total control. i can just skip the counter and choose any car in the aisle i like. so i can rent fast without getting a hair out of place. heeeeey. hey! ah, control. (vo) go national. go like a pro. they're america's biopharmaceutical researchers. pursuing life-changing cures in a country that fosters innovation

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we have right now two big caravans coming up from guatemala, mass of caravans, walking right through mexico. so mexico's tough. they can stop them, but they chose not to. now they're going to stop them. and if they don't stop them, we're closing the border. we'll close it. and we'll keep it closed for a long time. i'm not playing games. >> pope frances has warned that political leaders who build

walls to bar migrants, that he could not understand in his head or his heart how a government do be so cruel to keep up wired fences it keep federal budget he added this is not the way to resolve the serious problem of government. i understand the government has a hot potato in its hands, but it has to resolve it in other ways, humanely, let alone decency. msnbc correspondent jacob soboroff. welcome back, what do you got. . if you wanted to make an already unstable situation much worse, you'd do and i stopped which the

rev ooj ooj season prp to seek asylum. children were sleeping on the when they're already metering people permanent in order to stop people from cutting is just crazy. i haven't often told the story but during zero tolerance, i was talking to a dhs official who told us the whole point of search rating children in the first place was to basically scare congress in, to allow the trump administration to detain chrn during their on snfrp and

immigration advocates will tell you this is an inhumaneyet again, is contributing to making those crises worse. >> jacob sob ron, from democratic assistant veronica escobar of west texas. alex, if you want to keep jacob, if he would look to, if, i think your voice has been so important on opinion you know to the table with details and history as to why this is such a problematic

time in our history, problems that have been put forward and created by this president. i notice that you've also talked about the d.h. is. >> secretary, which have been pretty spout johnson can. in has created a situation b but -- you have the head of the homeland security who doesn't seem to be up to speed as well. is that fair to say? >> right. mika, thank you for having me on the show again. this is an administration led obviously by the president that only knows how to use government to create chaos and ined of be

of solve? m and it is long past time that she resigned. i felt back call for railroad himself forecast because i felt that just for the frfrmt we should hear what but what's happening now, i don't know if you a was the department of homeland security corralling families ous many, half of that many. in out in the open, in the elements, with nighttime lip kids, moms, parents, families sleeping in the dirt on the ground in a way in a is worse

than how we treat animals in this country. and they were corralled off with chain link fencing, with wire above it, as if these are people who are trying to escape. these are families who arrived at our doorstep seeking help. now, you know, people -- the trump administration, his supporters, may be uninterested in seeing what's happening and really only interested in trying to stop this. if they were interested, the trump administration were truly interested, in stemming as you and i have talked about this is the fourth up particular. but this is the most significant one for a couple of reasons. one during the obama

administration, president biden went and held accountable the -- it was a combination of investment and accountability. once this administration was sworn in, the accountability ended and now we're seeing the investment end as well, and we wonder why there there to our front doorstep. >> a parent of clarity, prum falsely said one of the fores for but let's speak with the economic issues. the fmt if he follows through on this kplops what are the impacts for places like the towns that you represent in nm pfrp, but

what i want folks in america to understand, thorks is that it wouldn't just impact el paso. this will be devastating to the national thanks were bad and farm. . with yetter in like this attack on a border community that is going to it. -- it won't stop people who are arriving where there is a wall that was built ten years ago. so what we're seeing, again, and it's remarkable to me how either

inept or just deliberately cruel or a combination of both this administration is. they're stopping people from legitimately coming in at the ports of entry to legally claim asylum. they're being pushed out to a a area. it's not going to stop pop ifpfrp you just said the policy will have a negative impact on places like el paso. so honestly, without, you know, softening it, what do you think is motivating this policy? what do you think is behind all of this? >> peer poll. >> just peer politics? >> agree with mika. i don't know that he is snchl, i believe she uses government has

a thnt tremendous arm. i believe he sees but it's also ultimately so that they continue to support and cheer on these policies that are deeply harmful, not just to the communities that they don't understand or they don't like, but these are policies that are harmful to all americans, economic policies that are harmful. closing the border with the market that is our second largest exporter, that doesn't make any kmg so -- >> congresswoman, it's -- >> jacob, go ahead. >> quick question for you, congress the state department announced it will cut o, that

money has been appropriated by congress. do you believe m. >> p that overseas and has control of the purse strings, it makes our job much more difficult when you have accomplices and enablers who are willing to call the preds on what he's doing. we do have to look at a way to make sure that that aid gets there. but it's not just aid, jacob. as i mentioned, congress can do a lot, but we need leadership from the oval office to collaborate with the leaders of this hemisphere. it is -- we've soon a global

rives with has no there as ways to deal without diplomacy, without leadership, this is our new normal for the next two years at least. >> congresswoman veronica escobar, i want to thank you. i think you've become one of the say a redacted version of the mueller report will be made public later this month. and our next guest argues that it may be more damaging to president trump than we know. and a note about some upcoming coverage both om and right here o "morning joe," this week we

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in conclusion, it is my hope that this report will be made public with a few redactions. r. >> we're going to black out everything except the words "no" and "collusion." joining us douglas b. mags, professor at duke university, he's out with a knew piece for "the washington post." and walter writing in part this -- president trump and his allying are red kulg the critics who anticipated the report from mueller would reveal definite at a timing information, but those who invested the inquiry with their hopes may by proven right. if mueller felt it was inappropriate, he could still be

following the example of leon jaworski, who decided against indicting president richard nixon, but submitted an extensive accounting of all the facts surrounding his efforts to shut down the investigation. gentleman worse kiss's testimony simply told the story and allowed the government tasked with the oversight, do the rest. what could have been unavoided is barr would improperly declare guilt or innocence, but that doesn't mean mueller came up empty-handed. >> professor, we've had this conversation before with bob woodward who kept trying to tell us the president definitively was not guilty. i'm not exactly sure why he said

that, but you look at the last two impeachment proceedings, and obstruction of justice was one of the charges against those presidents. that still is very much hanging out there up in the air, isn't it? >> it certainly is. >> so talk about -- talk about the big idea, your over-arching argument about how it's way too early to draw any conclusions from this report. >> sure. you know, none of us know what will be in the report, but i actually wrote that "the washington post" piece last wednesday before we knew definitive it would be 400 pages

plus appendices. think, for example the first third will be the result of what is essential a counter-intelligence investigation that will so massive, coordinated russian attempts to influence the presidential election totally before you get to the participation of any campaign officials in it. i think that will put in sharp relief that the president of the united states has done nothing to defend against these attacks or to prevent them from happening in the future. the -- even on the question where the attorney general says that mueller cleared campaign officials and that is of complicity with the russians and the attack on the campaign, the special counsel set a very high bar about making criminal charges for cooperation with the russians, and that's appropriate. we don't want to easily criminalize our political process. but the high bar is there had to

be an actual agreement, either tacit or the explicit. that leads open the fact they could have known of and welcome russian participation, which is. i think, joe, where you really focused on is where the president is most vulnerable, and that is on his indefensible interference with an ongoing criminal investigation, and there i think it could well be not necessarily the case, but it could well be that the special counsel mueller felt since the president could not be indicted, and the reason for olc has set a precedent is it would cast a cloud over the presidency, so too would a proclamation of guilt by a special down.

that may have him to stay his hand, but you lay out chapter and verse of everything we know about the president and unprecedented and indefensible interference in an ongoing investigation. >> professor, mike barn niicle off today, so i'm here, what recourse would democrats have to uncover that information? >> a very good question, jonathan appropriately, but very narrowly any bits of information that could only be obtained by an agent working in putin's

inner circle. but that would very, very minor. what i think is of somewhat concern about the attorney general's letter is that he says the rule 60 or the rules of criminal procedure make it a very strict criminal offense to release information derived from the grand jury, but there are pages of exceptions to that. what you would want to hear the attorney general say is we will make every effort, ask the trial judge to rule that one of the exceptions applied for national security or foreign policy information that can be released. there is no reason why grand jury information that doesn't overlap with intelligence information can't be released. you would like to see the attorney general seeking its release rather than hiding behind it. the last part of your question was what can congress do. i believe they with go to the trial judge that presides over that grand jury and ask the trial judge to release to

congress grand jury information that is redacted from the report. >> profess ore, thank you so much. we hope you'll come back. >> thank you so much. >> republicans in congress have already created a precedent by pulling the 302s from the hillary clinton investigations, which have the same impact as grand jury testimony and investigations, so that horse is already out of the barn, and republicans -- i don't think they're going to have a leg to stand on. we've got a lot more to get to in our 8:00 a.m. hour, including new drama inside the democratic parties over a rule change aimed at protecting incumbents. we'll talk to the vice chair of the democratic caucus, kahterine

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direction that threatens his high schools, colleges and college board. >> there was no collusion with russia, for obstruction, none whatsoever, and it was a complete and total exoneration. he also added this tweet -- maybe we should just take our victory lap and say no, we've got a country to run. as he's talking about not actually releasing the if you report. >> as noted on twitter, he ace bill yore nair, but you can't see his taxes. and he's exonerated, except he's not. that's the one thing we know the report says. good morning. it's monday, april 1st. we have white house reporter jon nan la mere.

eddie glod junior, and the author of the "death of expertise." and jeremy bash, and former chief of staff to the he dccc. adrienne el rod, she's also an misnbc contributor. joe, it continues his branding exercise. i'm exonerated. >> it turn act it doesn't really work. only 29% of americans believe he's been exonerated. i think that number has actually gone down since the mueller

report. still, it means that some of his most hard-core supporters that really do follow him? the swirl of a personality consult he's a billionaire. it's what he claims he made not even a million nair. it's probably what the case is. first of all, have you ever met anybody that's intelly intelligence and goes around telling you that i'm intelend. a lot of stupid have tried to convince me how intelligence they are by telling me how shatter they are. we can't see the transcripts. the same thing he attacks obama for he's guilty of everybody

knows he wasn't a good student, and of course he's claiming he's exonerated when we all know he's not he tried to change it to car aadvance, he tried to make up stories about disease-ridden foreigners coming to our lands, having to send troops to the border. it doesn't work. that's what i keep telling people. you had the worse loss in the history of the -- you lost by more votes than any party everything happening.

only 29% of americans believe that he's exonerated he says he's not playing games, but he is, and the games don't work. you lose. it's like i said last week, he's such a genius. hey, guess what? you lost. you lost the mid terms. again, broke all records for just getting your political heads knocked off your shoulders. that's donald trump's republican party. now it's happening again. you want to try to stop us? and donald trump thinking he can change the topic? it's a game he always loses.

>> ultimately the page turns. it's interesting, because this brandting exercise he's been working on, now fully exonerated, it's not working. slow multiwall rob that it's failed to lift the cloud. it asked americans based on their person of what they know, 29% say it clears trump, 40% saying it does not, with the rest unsure since we haven't seen it, those number bear out to common sense, this as a "the washington post" poll told respondens that they had different claims and asked who do you dash only 2% said they while 61% agreed with mueller's

report of no exonerate, and again, joe, if you'll remember in attorney general barr's her, which i guess he says is too difficult to summarize we have very few quotes he uses is this is not an exoneration. the i want is trying to bran exactly against what this report log say. we have to wait for the rest of the report. >> it's unbelievable. he actually had his acting chief of staff going well, you know, it's not -- it doesn't matter whether it was unethical, him talking to the russians as much as he did. we're not talking about whether it's unethical or not. of course it was unethical. >> play it, i want to hear that.

is this mick? >> yeah, here's mick. >> what do you think about the larger point that the actions were unethical. >> keep in mind that everything that adam just talked about -- and i know adam, i used to serve with him in congress -- everything he just listed was available to mr. mueller, probably in greater detail, yet mr. mueller found no collusion and no obstruction. >> not a crime, but what what about the ethics the morality of -- >> the issue is not whether it's ethical. >> you're setting the bar of criminal evidence or conspiracy, and i agree with what you're saying, but he's talking about ethics and morality, and you're saying that's not his job. fair enough, but what about the larger point? i think the voters will decide about the ethics and morality on either side. he's talking about adam schiff. >> yeah, he's talking about adam

schiff, but john nichols, ethic and morality stopped mattering to the administration and a lot of republicans a long time ago. a and that this investigation could be maybe washed away, doug what donald trump does, defending him first instead of the american people. those numbers. those numbers are abhorrent for donald trump. you want to explain why only 29% of americans believe that the report exonerates him? >> because of the report says it doesn't exonerate him. but the scary think buried in those numbers is that when you start to matrix that against people that are going to vote

for the president, what it really means is yes, we know, but no, we don't care. i think that's been a consistent feature of this administration, that the president does something that is, again, mueller from what we know of the barr summary, this didn't clear a legal barrier to collusion or conspiracy, but the context was wrong. people should have called the fbi. that's what you do, i think part of the problem is we're having this discussion, but in the end there's a lot of people in this country who just don't care. you could come out tomorrow and say, okay, he did it, he talked with russians, but it wasn't illegal. you have the chief of staff, sabre pitsh-posh, we'll leave

that to somebody else. people have settled into their tribalcare, he's our guy and we're going to stick with him. jeff bezos first floated his suspicions that saudi arabia had a role in hacking his private text messages. now his internal investigation is doubling down on that theory. how it all ties in with "the national enquirer." that's next on "morning joe." that's next on "morning joe. hear those words...

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reporting has indicated that san clez pro-trump brother may have been responsible for handing over the private information to "the national enquirer." however in a lengthy article in "the daily beast" the man in charge of bezos' investigation reveals his team has, quote, concluded with high confidence that the saudi government had access to bezos' phone and gained private information, adding that the kingdom's motive was to retaliate against "the washington post," which bezos owns for the critical it is coverage of jamal khashoggi's murderer. debecker also indicates that it's unclear if ami was unaware of how the compromises texts were originally obtained. he does not provide any hard i have for his games noting that the details and results have

been turned over to federal he officials. ami dismissed the claim, saying in a statement that sanchez's brother was the single source for "the national enquirer" story. they have a threat that unless bezos's reporting was not split cal motivated. everyone's messed with the wrong man here, number one. >> how did trying to blackmail the richest man in the world turn out for ami? not very well. the story, jeremy, appears to keep getting worse. now, according to this investigation, it looks like, went, gavin debecker said they kept throwing sanchez at him like he was some kind of patsy, and didn't want him to dig deeper. he has dug deeper. according to his investigation,

the saudis hacked into and gained access to jeff bezos' personal information. if that is the case, how damaging sup for the saudi government and for "the national enquirer" and ami? >> remember on march 18th, "wall street journal" reported that ami and david pecker approved a $200,000 payment to lauren sanchez's brother, and the prevailing theory is the pro-trump brother received a payoff from "the national enquirer." he gained action to his sister's phone and provided that information. along comes gavin debecker, a well-respected security professal. he's advisory paid by bezourss but has independent standing of his own, and he said he's seen

saudi activity on the phone. he doesn't exactly state that, therefore, the saudis took information from jeff bezos' phone and gave it to ami, which led to the publication of the description of the photographs, but the implication, joe, and mika, is the surely that the saudi government did something that would seem on its face wildly irresponsible, potentially unlawful, and he incredibly damaging to its own reputation once it would be ultimately revealed. >> tom nick coles, what is the impact is if in fact this investigation bears fruit and it's proven that the saudis intentionally tried to hack jeff bezos' phone? >> there's two things going on, one is we can't lieu sight of the incredible fact that a tabloid that supports the president went after one of the president's enemies, someone the

president roundly attacks, a newspaper he hates, and tried essential to destroy, personally destroy the owner of a newspaper that the president hates at a tabloid directed by an ally of the president. if you add into that, they did this with the assistance of a foreign power whose leader, or next leader is under international censure for a grisly murder and one of the few people backing him and won't joan that chorus of centsius is that president of the united states. at that point the story becomes immense, the ramifications here in foreign policy, first amendment, press freedom, in every direction, this becomes an explosive story, but with the proviso, if that's true, to have a regime that has been protected

somewhat from criticism by the president, working with a newspaper that supports the president, to go after the newspaper that has been critical of the president and whose journalist was murdered by the regime. really, if you wrote this up as a robert lismd uismd dlum novel, the publisher would sent it back saying it was too fantastic. coming up, catherine clark is making an announcement about one of the president's cabinet secretaries who we heard a lot about last week. "morning joe" is back in a moment. "morning joe" is back in a moment choosing my car insurance was the easiest decision ever.

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olympics, a move she staunchly defended for three days, only to find herself being reversed by the president, who decided to ultimately fund the program. joining us now, one member of congress, who is calling for the education senior's resignation, but for an entirely different reason. member of the appropriations committee, vice-chair of the house democratic caucus, congresswoman catherine clark t -- cath rick clark of massachusetts, are you calling for the resignation? and exactly why. >> thank you, mika. yes, i am, and i am calling for her resignation, because she has fault to live up to her basic job responsibilities, making sure that our kids have fair and quitable access, and to keep

them safe. what betsy devos did that i so object to and find disgusting is she rescinded civil rights policy and cherry picked racist research to back it up. what she did was role back obama-era protections for children of color, who we know are disciplined at far greater rates their their white peers. she backed it up with research that says this isn't because of institutional racism. this isn't because of any of that. it's because of who these children are, that black children are just temperamentally different, they come to school with behavioral problem, and they import them into the classroom. her fundamental failure to he stick up for children as

secretary of education makes her unfit to carry on this job. this is just one glaring and appalling example of many where she has eroded civil rights, sided against students, and a history of conflicts of interest. >> representative clark, i just wanted to follow up on this. it is certain the case, and i saw the hear when you pushed secretary devos on the question there were underlying questions kind of forming and shaping the interrogation as it were. talk about these other policy decisions that reflect and deepen what you take to be her racist approach. >> who we were focused on were these protections, where it said

why is it that black boys are expelled or suspended at three times the rate. black girls at 12 times the rate of their peers. we know this leads to a school-to-prison pipeline. what betsy devos, you know, said in her writings, what she quoted was that these children are just fundamentally different. they come to school fundamentally different. they import these problems in. the research are that she quoted has said nothing else we can do can change this. headstart is not a good investment, the school-to-prison pipeline, we shouldn't be worried about that, because black people and black children are just inherently more violent and more prone to crime. this is, for an administration whose hallmark is racist and

outrageous policies, this really does stand out to me as something that we can't just say it's another day in the trump administration. we have to stand up for children in this country. we have to stand up for the value that everyone is entitled to a fair and equitiable access to a great public education. betsy devos won't do it, and we can't have her as secretary of education. >> kasie hunt? >> what can congress do to push back against some of the policies that you are pointing to?

>> we can do a lot with the rolling back of protections and programs for after school, which help children with disabilities, all of this paints a picture frankly of just not caring about our school children. we had a hearing just the other day with veterans and other students coming in who had been defrauded by colleges. betsy devos is siding with them, so she needs to resign. we need to be crystal clear about that, but if she won't, and if president trump won't fire her, then we need to put these protections back into our budget. we need to put the guidelines that obama had just in guideline form into law, because we need to understand that it is our time to stick up for families at

home, to work on these issues that they care about, that we see every single day this administration undermining. it took them 24 hours to go from i have been exonerated by the barr report to repealing the aca and health care. 24 hours. they keep telling us who they are and we have to believe them. so a great pivot to my next question. you've giving up that unequivocal cal for the resignation of the secretary, and who the republicans think they are andically them out on what you consider to be hypocrisy. i want you to look toward 2020 and -- what do you make of -- i

don't know, whether it's allegations or the story of lucy flores written about joe biden, a potential democratic contender? how difficult is this conversation, do you think? or do you think it's clear? she was violated and biden has to address that? >> here's how i see it. i think that we are in a new time, and i am glad that lose,flores feels she can come forward with her story. it takes courage. i think she feels that she was violated, that physical boundaries that she had were crossed by joe biden, but this part of what we have to do as a country and certainly as a democratic party, are look at these issues and our candidates. what i am hoping is joe biden can not only hear her, as he

said, he would listen to her, but understand that some of his actions may have to change. i think we have to celebrate the fact that the democrats are willing to look at these allegations. we have willing to look at this administration and call it out and call for change. so i'm glad that we have an atmosphere where women feel they can come forward and tell their stories, and i think it's going to be up to joe biden and all other political figures to figure out how they really change their behavior and actions in responses. >> so congresswoman, let me ask you, first of all t. there was another article that i found to be deeply disturbing, which basically said that joe biden was cover for misogyny in the democratic party and racism in

the democratic party. it seems to me the man has devoted his adult life through extraordinarily tragic circumstances to this democratic party. do you think joe biden is an honorable man? >> i think that joe biden has shown us through a long career that he cares about american families and that he has served our country through his long senate career and as vice president. i do believe he has served us honorably that doesn't mean that women who he -- >> and do you believe -- no, no, i get that. do you say his entire life, taken in total, is joe biden an honorable man? >> yes, i think he is. i think we look at his service. i think we look at where his values are. joe biden has always been clear about that. i think that's what we look at with all the democratic candidates. they are clear on whose side

they're fighting on, and that's for the american people. >> yes. >> and those fundamental issues that families face at their kitchen tables. that's why i'm proud of this field of prospective candidates. we are changing the power. it's why we won in the mid terms. we are taking the power back from special interests. we are saying no for an administration that is built a a fundamental lie that immigrants are the reason for economic insecurity. they are a huge threat to our national security. when we start with that, all these other policies, the racist policies of betsy devevos are offshoots of the fundamental problem with who occupies the oval office. the way we combat that is returning power to american families. >> congresswoman katherine

clark, i always love you coming to the show. this is a hard conversation to have -- >> not really. >> a lot of folks will say that women need to be believed and heard, and i believe they should be heard. but are we allowed to bring up that lucy flores is a huge bernie person? and she has split wall connections that might be counter to biden's goals? and that this could be -- hold on -- is it okay this could be politically motivated? or are we supposed to take all the words and the fact she said she is was violated as face value? are we supposed to just leave it there and have this sort of, um, attack on his credibility and his honor?

just sit there? or are we allowed to talk about it? >> you can bring it up, mika, if you want your twitter feed to look like it's going to look like today. >> so we're not? >> well, no. you just did. and what i'm saying is that, yeah, the conversation has to be had. it has to be an open conversation, as you've been saying and as other people have been saying, the argument that all women must be believed. that was the argument since months ago. that was the argument when al franken was run out of town, when what donald trump has done is so much more abhorrent. that conversation has been moving along. just as an observer, that conversation has moved along to women need to be believed, women need to be heard, but there has to be due process out there.

you've got to hear both sides. what i heard this past weekend, after the initial rush of stories is all women should be believed, all women should be heard, but then all men should be heard. there has to be due process. there has to be some balance. i will tell you, where there there's no balance, if you take a man who's committed his entire lifetime to the democratic party, and then you say he is a racist and he is a misogynist, and that he is the democrats' answer to donald trump? that's just deeply offensive, and that's just wrong, and that's a wonderful way to help reelect donald trump. >> yeah. >> by democrats eating their own and actually trying to call a man who was barack obama's vice president for eight years a racist and a misogynist. that's over the line. up next, the steps lawmakers are taking to protect the

integrity of the 2020 census amid the trump administration's push to add a question on citizenship. as we go to break, some of the events we'll be watching in the day ahe day. and several democratic presidential candidates will deliver remarks at we the people summit in washington. they're expected to discuss issues, including access to health care and climb change. keep it right here on "morning joe." keep it right here on "morning joe.

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>> 2ke89a, american, united and alaska air group. we'll be following that this morning. we now, though, want to go to kasie hunt who has some breaking news out of the washington. we've lenders the house yew dishacy has voted to authorize subpoenas for the full mueller report and the underlying document, the full unredacted report. it doesn't mean the subpoena will be immediately send, that's up to jerry nadler. they didn't actually end up issuing them. >> i think it gives you a sense of how frustrated democrats are

with the the message here is that's not good enough. it's here again here again is an example of the mueller report hits, his numbers aren't moving, and now this bat moves to terr rain that's very rocky in the republican white house donald trump in the past has said let's see the record. are we really going to see the white house take the extraordinarily unpopular

starnes of trying to cover up the mueller report while democrats are fighting for transparency? >> first of all to your point and i think that's in part because they knew other shoes were going to drop. >> it's very clear in this mott that it shows we are subpoenas we're going to hear executive privilege, get used to hearing that phrase in the coming days and weeks. this is a fight on tricky ground as the president himself, despite the poll numbers, despite the evidence this is not necessarily a clear win, he

still views that it is. it's the end of the beginning of the mueller process. >> it's not out. >> when the president gets past the process, and we're going to see the report, he las to work about the subject of new york. now to one of the controversies, tomorrow the house oversight committee is set to vote on issuing subpoena, including for william barr and wilbur ross. it's all due to ross's decides

to at a citizen ship question. the -- it's a big one. joining us now,ened and ceo of the noble urban league, marc morial. he has a new and the ceo of the educational fund arturo vargas. it's a nonprofit which promotes. full participation. >> so let's start with you. the chiefs scientists as well as six former have argued against including this question.

the census bureau did not do as required be law, which is to conduct testing before they add a new question, and there are many obs that cal to ensure a complete count. americans have to understand it's about political power, it's about economic power, butted census bureau have 'lot to do. there's been steps that are being taken that i think are troublings and deserves.

some up argue that this question is bound up with -- that it's a reflection of a deep anxiety is not something some of the future, that it's already happened. what are the tangible effects that may follow as marc just mentioned? >> good morning. the tangible effects are the ones that the census bureau knows as well. the actual surveyors had been experiencing already reluctance and fear by immigrants and families with immigrants to the point that the people who work

at the census bureau were so alarge that they brought this to the sustains of the in a. then the announcement comes that we're going to ask everybody are you a citizen, yes or no? we no every sentence has a consequence to response rates. the chief scientist himself has testified that this question in particular will suppress response rate by latinos, asians and individuals with immigrants in their families.

the census has always been highly charged, what can it lead to down the road? >> it could lead to an undercount, which means the reapportionment process in a changing america, it's so important to get an accurate count, so when the reapportionment process is fair to everyone. so an undercount has that effect. the second impact would be that it it affects the distribution of money in accordance with many federal programs, many

formula-based programs rely on census information to determine the allocation so it's? everyone's best interest to get this correct. one of the most important elements is there was an undercount in 2010, but one of the lower undercount in american history. children were undercounted, and this will use an internet option, a phone option and the old door-knocking option. but even with access to the internet and phone option, 40% to 50% of the people will rely on a knock on their door to respond. the census bureau has to make sure that that system, that system of knocking on doors is

fully funded, well staffed, you've got the right people with the right cultural competence to do it in a complete way. >> mr. vargas, briefly as a final question, we talked about the impact of what would happen, but in the short term what can be done to prevent this? >> well in partnership with organizations are doing massive campaigns to educate the american public about the impact of the census and how important it is to be counted, and to remember that any information you give to the census bureau is absolutely confidential. the data is only used to ensure our communities the receive their fair share of representation and resources. >> thank you both very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. we'll be back. >> i like it. >> i sure hope so. >> and we're back in two minutes. so. >> and we're back in two minutes.

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okay, joe, we've got one minute to say good-bye. don't go over. >> i was just saying about christopher walken's skit. how many people in the house? >> 80? it seems a little high. joe, your final thought. >> i think it would be a pivotal week for the white house. >> still thinking he's got to win here, going on to take an aggressive tack on both health care, what a republican plan might look like, and second he's going to the border this week. >> man, all loss is -- that killed him in the mid terms. he's the boston red sox of the

politics. >> just quickly. we need toby mindful of that, don't let him shift to the cultural wars. that's what hi wants. >> kasie? >> let's go o's! >> two our three, in first place baltimore orioles, your baltimore orioles. while we languish in the cellar. my final those is that does it this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. hi there, we have a lot to get to this morning, starting, of course with president trump renews his immigration fight, now threatening to shut down the borders.