's largest gig-speed network along with complete reliability. then went beyond. beyond clumsy dials-in's and pins. to one-touch conference calls. beyond traditional tv. to tv on any device. beyond low-res surveillance video. to crystal clear hd video monitoring from anywhere. gig-fueled apps that exceed expectations. comcast business. beyond fast. . that's a wrap for me. i'll see you all again at noon eastern. now it's time for "up with david gura." on a sunday morning, this is "up," i'm david gura. in his war on immigration president trump launches a new attack. he says he is redeploying agents for the u.s./mexico border and

he warns of traffic and further delays. >> our country is full. we're full. our system is full, our country is full. can't come in. our country is full. >> strong reactions from the candidates for the democratic nomination crisscrossing the country this week. >> this is a very serious threat to our economy, to our democracy, to our way of life in this country. >> that's beto o'rourke in iowa. mayor pete's campaign is picking up steam. the $7 million man is rallying voters in new hampshire. >> freedom doesn't belong to one political party, especially when that political party has just experienced a hostile takeover by a president with authoritarian tendencies. plenty of people weighing in on joe biden, including president trump's supporters. >> a pro-trump group released a new ad saying biden's behavior is unacceptable and should instantly disqualify him from running. the group's name is independent republicans of new york, or

irony. >> elliott williams was a deputy assistant attorney general and lisa, walid shalid is a spokesman and beth. i want to begin with president trump's latest moves on border policy. last night the president announcing redeployment of 750 border agents. this will cause traffic and commercial delays, the president warned, adding until mexico cleans up this ridiculous and massive migration, we will be focusing on border security, not ports of entry. on friday the top border enforcement in the country said the u.s. has hit a breaking point at the border as the number of migrants attempting to enter the country continues to surge. the warning followed the president's threat to completely shut down the border, a threat he has backed away from.

he's announced funding cuts to three countries in central america. experts argue the president's tactics are actually making things worse, encouraging migrants to race to the u.s. before perceived crackdown. "the washington post" reports despite pump's public fight the number of arrests skyrocketed from 58,000 in january to nearly 100,000 last month. the reunification of migrant children with their families, julia ainsley and jacob soboroff report that lawyers for the trump administration say reuniting thousands of migrant families will take up to two years. 65 children still separated from their parents or guardians. on saturday the president declared the country is full. >> get out. sorry, get out. we're full. our system is full, our country is full. we can't handle anymore, our country is full. >> lisa, i want to start with you and the rhetoric. he's mimicking what he said the

day before at the border at an event with border patrol officials and he said that. he addressed migrants directly. how much of a change is this? what do you make of this as this being the image of america projected to the world. >> the president has never demonstrated an understanding of the cause of migration. he's handled it that the issue could be solved at the u.s./mexico border. anyone who understands this issue will tell you if you want to tackle immigration coming into this country, you have to look at the push factors in central america. you have to look at the reason that these migrants are coming. they're coming from countries that are grip liappling with violence. no matter what policy you institute at the border, they will continue to come. >> some are couching this as a crisis, a humanitarian crisis for sure at the border. the way that the president is marshaling resources is not to

deal with the humanitarian crisis. >> it's no secret trump is a xenophobe, racist. if you look at the election results in 2016, they did lose the battle on immigration if you look at trump winning the presidency. you have julian castro trying on rhetoric and policies focusing on the humanitarian stuff. elizabeth warren and bernie sanders are saying trump's race war is a class war, that he wants to divide and conquer working people of all backgrounds by pointing the finger at immigrants and then you have people like alexandria ocasio-cortez saying if we're going to decarbonize the whole economy, we should welcome workers because there's so much work to do. i don't know which of those immigration messages will be part of the winning ticket for democrats. >> beth, we're going to draw on your recent trip to new hampshire but how are candidates talking about this? we heard from beto o'rourke and

pete buttigieg as well at the top. do you see any coming together on this? >> certainly they're pushing back on what trump is doing and saying and certainly there's no wall.rt for building a border beyond that there's no really that i've identified a uni let's face it, in the past democrats have definitely voted for robust border security. there's hundreds of miles of fencing down on the border already because at one point or another democrats voted for that. it was really done after the 2001 terror attacks when the country was clamp douing down a securing all sorts of places so there was great support for that. now democrats do criticize what the president is doing. they don't have a really clear idea of what they want instead. but i will make one point about what you said about how 2016 trump winning was a victory for that hard-line approach. he got very little traction in 2018.

virtually none with that big battle he did about the bordear that was going to come. republicans lost seven seats in california, got swept in new mexico. democrats picked up a house seat in arizona and texas democrats did better than they did in 28 years. so the approach that president trump took about making that the signature issue in 2018 didn't work for him. >> you look at the way the president ha fumbled over the course of this week. he talked about how he was going to seal the border and then said maybe it would happen in a year's time. you couple that with the announcement about the redeployment. the folks on capitol hill and the pentagon are just flum objection flummoxed. help us understand that policy side of things, how the president is fumbling for answers here. >> something we didn't talk about, i worked for i.c.e. for

the whole first term of the obama administration so spent a lot of time thinking about these issues. what's consistent about the president's approach is that he has to keep theesident has done a national emergency, by alienating our allies, as long as he can go to these rallies and say we need to close the border and things are bad. if you actually told the truth about operational control of the border, if you actually told the truth about the fact that border crossings have been down significantly since 2000, if you actually told the truth about the fact that as beth had said border wall construction has been in place that democrats voted for years and years ago and if you were to actually be clear about the fact that you have different border fencing needs in san diego where you get 90,000 people crossing on foot -- pardon me, 90,000 trucks and people crossing in the course of a year than you do in el paso or brownsville or some of the other places. so if we exist in a world of

reality, the president is just wrong on the border. uild the wall chant was a political -- you know, it's all political. it doesn't actually help. and like we saw from this week from that construction in san diego, it's just -- there's no basis for it. >> i think one of the challenges for democrats to connect some of the points that people at this table have made is for a long time they acted as if they made a series of concessions about security at the border that they would be able to bring moderate republicans to the table and have enough support for a comprehensive bill. they are now grappling with the fact that that did not work. they were never able to push it over the finish line. so they as a party have to re-establish where they are. beth brought up something interesting, which is if you look at those 2018 numbers that you were rattling off, that's a very different electoral map. that is shifting attention away from the american south and

shifting it towards the southwest, which someone like julian castro has argued is his path to victory. if he can get arizona, if he can get texas, all of a sudden that changes the way the democrats can look at that map. >> i want to ask about the vacuum that's opened up. you have nancy pelosi filing suit against fraud and appropriations, the president declaring this national emergency and stepping on the toes of lawmakers in doing that. the president is going down there and making these policy proclamations and saying he's going to do x, y and z. that's happening on capitol hill, things are making their way but the courts. how much is the political distraction as things are happening at the u.s./mexico bo border. >> i don't know if trump cares about immigration policy. >> he's not filling that void. >> no, the distraction is his strategy and the politics. elizabeth warren says it well, when you pit white workers in ohio against latino workers in texas, who benefits?

trump benefits. the only way he can unite republicans is by race baiting and giving them something to rally around, which is build the wall. he has nothing else for them. >> the whole idea of shutting the border down would be disastrous for the united states. there were the memes about avocado production and they would get expensive. i i don't say the number of the 90,000 crossings. $600 billion of commerce in trading. you're talking about people coming to work in san diego and el paso. >> manufacturing. >> manufacturing. like people -- the number of people who lawfully cross back and forth every day just to live their lives and to benefit the united states. and forget the cities along the border, everything from mexico that comes into the u.s., automobiles and so on. so it was all about frightening people. people bought it. we have a scary situation. he's right, you've got to close the border. it's just whipping up his

supporters. >> broadening this out a little bit, you saw the evolution, what the president is saying about the border. what does that say more broad low about his handle on things? a lot of ink spilled about the disconnect between reality and the white house. >> he floated closing the border and then pulled it back. at one point he was complimenting mexico for trying to help with the migration out of central america and then he turned around and said mexico is doing a terrible job. there's so much confusion that he wants to promote because it keeps everybody confused. the fact that most of these people coming over are migrants with families with kids as opposed to bad guys running across to grab your job. he's intentionally muddied that whole situation. >> deliberate incoherence. a lot more ahead, including the 14 million documents michael cohen is offering the democrats.

up next, if you can't say his last name, you're in good company but get used to hearing it. >> pete buttigieg. >> yeah, we got it, pete butter scott. >> buttigieg. >> billy bob thornton. >> repeat after me. boot edge edge. buttigieg. >> this has been the roots mispronounce buttigieg. uttigieg ? it's a free alert if we find your social security number on the dark web. good, cuz i'm a little worried about my information getting out. oh, why's that? [bird speaking] my social security number is... 8- 7- 5 dash okay, i see. [bird laughing] is that your daughter? no, it's a macaw. and his name is timothy. timmy, want a cracker? timmy, do you want a cracker? [bird speaking] what do you think, kevin? no. sign up online for free. discover social security alerts.

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one political party. especially when that political party has just experienced a hostile takeover by a president with authoritarian tendencies. >> that's pete buttigieg saturday campaigning in new hampshire. the mayor of south bend, indiana, is making headlines for a tweet taking to task israel's prime minister. benjamin netanyahu said he would move ahead with annexing the west bank. buttigieg writes this provocation is harmful to israeli, palestinian and american interests. supporting israel does not have to mean agreeing with netanyahu's politics. i don't. buttigieg is expected to kick off his presidential campaign officially in a week with a rally in his hometown. he has earned the nickname the anti-trump. buttigieg signed up for military service. buttigieg comes from a small midwestern city rather than the big apple. his politics are formed by a deep grasp of history, philosophy and ethics that are

at odds with trump's rejection of expertise. josh letterman, he and beth fouhy were up in new hampshire for a series of pete buttigieg events. josh, what was the vibe like? i read one of them had to be moved from one venue to another, there was an overflow crowd. >> they had to expand it and there were lots of people outside not able to get in. in his event yesterday at a bookstore in concord, beth and i were both up there, hundreds of people really packed into this back store wanting to get a glimpse at pete buttigieg. we asked when did this guy come onto your radar? for a lot of them it was two weeks, three weeks, maybe a month. for a lot of them it was that town hall that he did on cnn was the first time they had ever heard of this guy. woe asked is that something that's concerning to you, he's not really been on the scene for a while, has that wealth of

experience in national politics the way that someone like joe biden does, even elizabeth warren, bernie sanders have been around for a while. the answer for most of the folks that we were talking to was, no, they're not concerned about that. they actually like the fact that pete buttigieg comes to the table without a lot of the political baggage that you see from a lot of these other candidates. if one of the things that we looked at from the last two weeks looking at what joe biden has experienced, democrats love him, they appreciate everything he's done for many, many years for the party, but he has a lot of baggage and that fresh-faced new voice seems to be something a lot of democrats are hungry for. >> beth, talk to us about the challenges that he faces at this point. he's drawing crowds up in new hampshire. he raised a lot of money, $7 million in the first quarter of the year. what happens next? there's this event a week from today in south bend, indiana. but what happens between now and then and after that. >> well, he's going to be on "meet the press" this morning. >> shameless plug and i

appreciate that. >> for chuck todd. he does have a big challenge. he's running a really fantastic media strategy and that's gotten him to where he is in terms of his money and recognition. he's been on bill maher, he's been on "morning joe." now he has to build a campaign, an actual campaign which is very different. when you're talking about these early states, particularly iowa where that caucus system is so hard to navigate and candidates really rely on experts who have done this before and know how to put that caucus team together. most of those are spoken for now by this very diverse field and they grabbed up the talent. so pete buttigieg, perhaps he can steal some from other candidates since he's the hot guy or he has to go out and find new people and that's a tricky place to be. and then new hampshire where josh and i saw him, that's a totally different system. it's a primary. it's an open primary. anybody can skroet vovote and r that day. so you've got a different challenge there.

so he's got a lot of momentum but he has to show that he can do the hard work of creating a campaign that can actually produce votes. >> elliott, there's remarkable self-awareness to this guy. to put it simply, mayor pete seems designed to expose everything that makes the country tired of trump. there was a moment this week at al sharpton's event here in new york where the issue of black lives matter came up. he said all lives matter. he re-evaluated his position on it and was very frank in the remarks that he gave there about learning from that and moving forward. that is something we have not seen in recent months when it comes to national politics. >> we haven't. and i think the refreshingness, if you look at the history of democratic nominees over the last probably going back to the 1960s, democrats tend to nominate insurgents, people from outside the -- i don't want to say outside the beltway, but bill clinton, barack obama,

jimmy carter, a lot of these folks were not -- they were actually quite exciting candidates. republicans have a tendency to nominate the person who's next in line, the mitt romney, the john mccain. so a lot of the folks and a lot of buzz around mayor pete is that he represents that. he's not the person whose turn it is to be president, which might resonate more for republicans. for everybody, 2016 upended that because both democrats and republicans had outliers to that trend. >> we were talking about how democrats talk about immigration. aaron blake had a piece about the difficulty democrats face talking about the economy. as you listen to pete buttigieg speak, do you hear him doing that in a different way or a better way or a way that's going to shape how others in the democratic field talk about the problems with the u.s. economy? >> i think he's trying to figure out how to peel away some elizabeth warren and bernie sanders supporters into his camp. he also has a critique of the

democratic party establishment. he said we have a 30, 40-year reagan consensus around small government that even bill clinton signed onto saying the era of big government is over. obama reenacted the bush tax cuts. he said it's a new era that we're returning to, that's a big government democratic party, things like the green now deal and medicare for all. he said that the democratic party needs to go bigger. that is something that elizabeth warren has said for a long time, bernie sanders has said for a long time. my city councilperson in brooklyn represents more people than pete buttigieg does. so i like pete, but no one would take my city councilperson seriously if they ran for president. >> let's also be clear, everyone is talking about the $7 million, kamala harris raised 12. elizabeth warren was a professor and not even at a safety school like your alma mater, cornell, david. >> nice having you on the show. >> a professor at harvard and

somehow pete buttigieg quoting is a virtue no one is talking about she fought up the consumer financial protection bureau. now, what do they have in common? they're both women. mongolia and i think somalia or something have elected female presidents. the united states of america has not. and we can't seem -- i don't know about somalia, but mongolia has. serbia. >> i was going make a very similar point which is it seems in some ways as though the media has learned nothing from the last presidential election in terms of who you give the attention to ends up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. so here you have a lot of these candidates pushing out these deep policy positions on everything from teacher pay to julian castro's immigration policy to elizabeth warren's

universal child care policy and we're spending a lot of time talking with how mayor pete is coming from what people perceive to be out of nowhere. this is a thing he had to do. he had to break early. he has more than cloeeared that hurdle. but i think it's important this early in the game to remember that it's still really early and what we're looking for is someone who can articulate the vision for the democratic party. >> another point that i would make is black voters, particularly black women are the heart and soul of the democratic primary vote. we have yet to see if democrats are doing what they need to do to attract that constituency. we know in south carolina and throughout the south, we've seen candidates go down there, they're going into the heart whereof those black democrats live but not getting a lot of black democrats at their events. so it's unclear still. as everybody said, it's early, but you have to 'em abrasiembra community and that community has to embrace you in order to win this nomination. >> beth and josh, thanks for the great reporting from new

hampshire. pete will be on "meet the press" at 9:00 a.m. eastern time. up next, how donald trump is remaking the federal reserve in his image with some head-scratching picks. >> i believe these words came from the pokemon movie. >> ahh, shucky ducky. cooper!

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trump is not happy with the federal reserve and he wants to change it. the u.s. central bank determines key interest rates, and with donald trump in the white house, the fed has raised them. well, this week the president said those moves have been unnecessary and destructive. >> well, i personally think the fed should drop rates. i think they really slowed us down. there's no inflation. i would say in terms of quantitative tightening, it should actually now be quantitative easing. >> that is something the fed did after the financial crisis, basically it pbought bonds to by down interest rates. plus donald trump will say there is an emergency when there is

nothing to back that up. in 2019 there is no financial crisis. the unemployment rate is 3.8% and the president is now calling for something he opposed vehemently. this is what he said in september 2011 back when the unemployment rate was 9%. the fed's reckless policies of low interest and flooding the market with dollars needs to be stopped. president trump likes to have a foil and when it comes to the economy, that foil is the chairman of the federal reserve. according to "the wall street journal" the president has blasted chairman jerome powell at three meetings in the past week alone. he's attacked him on twitter, and the president reportedly told powell this during a phone call last month. i guess i'm stuck with you. it seems president trump is stuck with jay powell, the man he picked to do the job during his first year in office. >> it is my pleasure and my honor to announce my nomination of jerome powell to be the next chairman of the federal reserve. >> it's become clear the

president is not happy powell is playing it straight, that he's not bending to pressure from the president. there are seven seats on the central bank's board and president trump has had the chance to fill six of them. his first three picks were traditional, his last two were not. one is stephen moore, a campaign advisor who lavished praise on the president. he's the author of a book called "trumponomics." president trump's other pick is herman cain. >> he's a terrific man, a terrific person. he's a friend of mine. i have recommended him highly for the fed. >> the federal reserve has a long, proud history of independence. in the past friendship with the sitting president has not been what lands you a job running the world's most powerful central bank. has that changed? we'll see. it's been 16 days since president trump said he would officially nominate stephen moore for an open seat and since then concerns about his qualifications have given way to headlines like these. stephen moore's unpaid taxes

underscore trump's vetting woes. stephen moore was found in contempt of court for failing to pay ex-wife $333,000. and herman cain has phased allegations of sexual harassment, claims he denies. if herman cain is nominated, then it is up to congress to decide if he is qualified. one can only imagine the tack he's going to take ahead of those hearings. >> i'm ready for the gotcha questions. and they are already starting to come. when they ask me who's the president of you becky becky becky become becky stan stan, g to say i don't know. do you know? >> ah, shucky ducky. >> we'll be right back. >> ah, shucky ducky. >> we'll be right back this time, it's his turn.

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mr. cohen is fully cooperating with the southern district of new york and is offering more information that he's now discovered when he's retrieved back his cell phones and other documents from the southern district. he's working with congress -- >> are you suggesting additional evidence beyond what he laid out in his congressional testimony? >> is that correct. he also has additional information for the southern district involving criminal behavior that needs to be looked into. >> lanny davis is making a last-ditch effort to reduce his client's prison sentences which is to start in about a month. he's gained access to about 14 million files which may be of significant value to investigators. president trump dismissed his former fixer's request on friday. >> no, they have already got it,

he's old news. he lied numerous times during his last testimony. they have had that for many months. >> elliott, i want to start with you and get a sense of what's happening here. you read that letter, it does seem like you're making one last-ditch effort to shorten a sentence that already is fairly short. >> three years in prison is a significant amount of time in federal prison. here's the thing. you look at the various branches of government. the executive branch prosecuted him. he went to the judicial branch. now he's going to the congress. it's like ask your mother, right? where you don't like the answer you got the first time and you want to go to the other parent, which is kind of what he's doing. he can move for a lower sentence. there's a process where if you are still providing information to the government that's useful for them, it's called the rule 35 process, where they can lower your sentence after sentencing. it's a little bit odd that now after having turned the information over he's claiming that there's information that he

didn't know was in there or so on. one thing that's important is he could have gotten himself in a big heap of trouble if he knew about this information before and kept it under wraps. it doesn't look like that's what happened here. it's just sort of i turned it over to the government, i didn't quite know what was in it. i'm looking at it and it's more information. so he's just trying to get himself out of prison. at a certain point it's just time to go to jail. but the big, big picture here is that he is a reminder of the threat that everything that's happening in new york city poses to the president of the united states because whatever is on that hard drive, this is outside of the robert mueller world. this is all the trump organization that lives on. >> when you look at the case that he's making in that letter, it says i've been helpful. i testified -- did three hearings on capitol hill. i've given over some evidence thus far. there's some truth to that, isn't it? when you look at all of the investigations taking place on capitol hill, a late of them are guided by things that michael cohen said during that public

testimony. >> the challenge here to me is an optical one. i would almost draw a line between what happened this week with mueller's team saying they had hoped more would have been released which if you are a person that believed mueller' team is acting correctly and donald trump has done more things wrong than has come to light, you said thank goodness those people said that. if you believe that is a wnitch hunt, you believe it's a witch hunt. similarly, if you believe michael cohen whose credibility is questionable, this has the optical appearance of it becoming even more questionable. why are you coming to us at this late date. as you said, he suggests that he's only now been able to access this information. only now is he realizing that there are pieces of this. the timing of it, unfortunately for him, looks as though it is motivated by the wrong intentions. >> beth, i want you to chime in on this as well. the timing but also the degree to which he has become so

central to this. yes, the investigations are takes place here in new york but also on capitol hill. >> i can't help but think about what michael cohen must have been thinking, he's going to prison for presuming a crime that donald trump told him to do, which was to pay off these women, these people that trump may have had an affair with, he's being punished, the president is not, and then he gets to watch basically the mueller report be reported out by bill barr that basically exonerated him or at least that's the message the president wants to put out. once again, donald trump gets away with everything he's ever done. and michael cohen helped him for many years to accomplish that task, but there's something about him that he just gets away with everything and somebody else pays his price. that's what's going on with michael cohen. if this doesn't change anything, he's going prison the first week of may. >> it's an indication of how we're desensitized to the fact that individual 1 named in an indictment in a federal court,

that's the president of the united states. under any other -- forget what we think of donald trump, any other circumstance, were we not in the twilight zone right now where rod sterling is not about to walk out and say imagine a world where the president of the united states is an unnamed co-conspirator in a federal indictment, we would be shocked at this. but i just think somehow just desensitizing or normalizing this. >> for the past 10 or 15 years american people have not seen those in power who have abused their power -- >> you're talking about the financial crisis. >> financial crisis, iraq war, hurricane katrina, the killing of black people by police officers. the american public are watching this and don't see anyone being held accountable for anything they're doing so this is just another example where trump is not being held accountable to the extent that he should. the fall guy ends up being the person to be held accountable and not the people who are orchestrating all of these

abuses. >> you brought up the mueller report. we're still waiting for it. there was a sense in the immediate aftermath of the release of that, the second memo that bill barr wrote that that gave the president an opportunity to take a victory lap and shape that investigation to the way that he wanted it. now that two weeks have passed, what's your sense of how that shaping has held? we were talking about the democrats' message on immigration. how about the democrats' message on getting that mueller report out. >> all the major polls that we have seen since the initial exoneration or whatever you want to call it came from barr, president trump's popularity has not moved one direction or the other. it's basically been flat the entire time. people still finding mueller more credible. it's like what happened never happened. so yes, president trump sought very hard to make the narrative -- >> the summary that's not a summary. >> to be clear about that. and my experience, david, out on the campaign trail is that it really doesn't come up. the candidate might sort of have

one line. he'll say we want the report released. but then they will pivot quickly to issues of the economy, of national security, of how they're going to create jobs and make life better for the folks in that room and that seems to be what the folks in the room want to hear. >> again, this is the same point. i'm not correcting you. put out there that second portion. set aside the no collusion and the first wing of that four-page summa summary. it lists instances of the president doing obstruction of justice even though they can't charge it. >> i think you see the president saying let's talk about health care, let's close the border, let's nominate herman cain to the fed. it's amazing to me watch republicans waiting to see what the president does because the number of things they have had to walk him back from just in the last week alone sort of

tells you where his head is at. >> where he's going lead them or push them might be a better way of putting it. up next, a group of democrats pushing back on the policy of backing incumbents no matter what. >> if you're a one-term congress member, so what? >> everybody knows someone in their life that is already an amazing public servant. to nominate that amazing public servant to take their service to the halls of congress. oh! oh!

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one of the things i do worry about sometimes among progressives in the united states, maybe it's true here as well, is a certain kind of rigidity. then we start sometimes creating what's called a circular firing squad where you're shooting at your allies. >> that's president obama speaking in berlin yesterday on the dwoids in tivides in the de. the group that helped elect alexandria ocasio-cortez is facing off with democratic leadership criticizing the party's congressional campaign committee for favoring incumbents over challengers.

they launched the dccc lack list to stand up against what they say is the bullying of the movement. let's dig into obama's comments in just a second but talk about what motivated the croatian bit motivated the creation of this website. >> just like a week or two ago, the head of the triple "c." she announced the policy that any organization who works on a primary challenge like alexandria ocasio-cortez, they could not work -- they would not be recommended to basically the d triple c. incumbent democrats who are worried about aoc challenging them, are going to boost us in saying, we give you dues, what are you doing for us. i need help. and primaries are kind of going

mainstream in 2018 there were just a few organizations working on the races. i think the it's getting worried that they're going to be some incumbents who are going to face formidable primary challenges in 2020. >> is your goal to factual that system or is it to get -- to pick sides, to give rise to new groups? >> i think we're creating an alternative that can help working class, progressive, women of color, to have a path to power, congress, where so many times people don't want to work with those candidates because it's kind of risky. it's this kind of chicken or egg problem. the thing about president obama that i find funny -- in the year

2000 he ran a primary challenge calling for a new generation of leadership in the democratic party. he might have been the first justice democrat. beto o'rourke. it's not like we're the first person to do primary challenges. >> your tweet up on the screen. >> instead of negotiating just with joe lieberman over the public option, imagine if he had to negotiate with progressives in the party. it's currently how nancy pelosi has to deal with the caucus. those democrats have so much more negotiate power. >> there's a new book and in that book you have president trump complaining about the fact that democrats have been so cohesive. >> it's not a thing you hear

about democrats, right? >> help us understand. that's what grates on him the most. >> i don't know that i can explain that as it relates to democrats given the fact that it does feel like there's a tectonic shift happening within the democratic party where you do have this new wave of progressive members who are pushing the institution both inside in terms of the house itself and pushing the outside institutions. i think what the president is saying there is that they're not as united behind me is i would expect them to be. and i think this past week is an example of this. that he thought he could decide that they were going to go after health care and he had to contend with mitch mcconnell. the fact that he wants to close the u.s.-mexico border and has members of his own party saying this is a terrible idea not just on policy, but politically. i think it's more of a complaint

about his own party -- >> it's also a flip of stature right now. we're seeing the diversity. he was talking about nancy pelosi when she was a minority leader very good at keeping her caucus together on votes. that's a very different thing when you're in the minority. and trump was realizing he stepped into a situation where the freedom caucus, they want to tear up they went, blow it all down so that forced john boehner out of the speakership, paul ryan out of leading the party. things are very different now that the situation has flipped and we're seeing a lot less of just go along to get along with democrats now that we have a lot of voices that are going to be independent and doing what they want and not necessarily carrying the party line every time. >> we had this long saga about

who was going to be the house speaker, and i thought we sorted through all of this, and things were changed to make it so newer members of the congress would have a voice. how dissatisfied are you with how that has all shaken out? >> it's not about nancy pelosi as much as it is about -- even the former chairman has said he doesn't agree with what sherry has done here and there's been a series of meetings with the progressive caucus where they did not agree to anything. it was a disappointing meeting. but at the end of the day the d.c. cc, they're against closing -- ending privacy prisons, those are policies that the main candidates all support. it's actually -- it's kind of out of step with the energy of where the democratic party is which is more aligned with

alexandria ocasio-cortez on the national level. >> we're going to leave it there. thank you very much. up ahead, the victory lap president trump seems so eager to take two weeks ago. why he spent his weekend lashing out at robert mueller's investigation. final report, when we come back. investigation. final report, when we come back. ? -i know, it's not much, but it's home. right, kids? -kids? -papa, papa! -[ laughs ] -you didn't tell me your friends were coming. -oh, yeah. -this one is tiny like a child. -yeah, she is. oh, but seriously, it's good to be surrounded by what matters most -- a home and auto bundle from progressive. -oh, sweetie, please, play for us. -oh, no, i couldn't. -please. -okay. [ singing in spanish ] -please. -okay. (video games have evolved.addle)

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this is "up." it was just 14 days ago that president trump took a victory lap on twitter. no collusion, no obstruction. that was the day after attorney general bill barr delivered his summary of the main findings in the russia investigation. but the president's celebration was short lived. president trump was back on offense lauvnching a multifront attack. the president tweeted news articles. then he targeted democrats with 13 tweets. the president's other twitter targets have been the media, there were six tweets about that, and four attacking robert mueller and the origin of the

special counsel's investigation. that is a total of 40 tweets, two to three attacks a day, since he declared complete and total exoneration. and like the president who tweeted saturday, he's not read the report, despite having every right to do so. the american public is still in the dark about what is in robert mueller's report. and member of the special counsel's team are starting to complain. their concerns have found their way into articles this week. according to the "new york times," they believe the attorney general failed to adequately portray the findings of their inquiry. it's increased public pressure from nancy pelosi on attorney general bill barr to release that report in full. >> show us the mueller report. show us the tax returns. and we're not walking away. >> democrats are digging in and the president is retreating from his call for transparency. >> let is come out, let people

see it. that's up to the attorney general. we have a very good attorney general. he's a very highly respected man. >> president trump at the white house wants to reframe the debate about how the investigation got started. >> i hope they now go and take a look at the origins, the origins of the investigation, the beginnings of that investigation. the mueller report, i wish, covered the origins, how it started. >> like comparing apples and oranges here. up with me this hour, philip bump and a white house reporter for the daily mail, paul butler and lynn tweet joins us here in new york as well. i saw you hitting the table with emphasis as nancy pelosi did during that press conference. what do you make of where we are two weeks out. it feels like longer yet than i

suppose when we first got that memo. >> confusion, chaos. >> i love it. >> that's what happens when the attorney general who could have seen this come just sends of 73 words out of a report that's more more than 400 pages. so sometimes what surprises me about this whole saga, dave, is that no one seems to be able to see around the corners. did you really think analysts and everyone who's watching us that barr didn't need -- just as a good public servant to have a backup plan to present to the public in realtime saying i'm doing for whatever reasons i think are needed to give you my summary of this summary. but let me tell you how it's going to proceed. he could have voluntarily have kept the volume on this in a more civilized, less seemingly partisan tone because he knew or

had to know, which is a phrase well known to attorneys, knew or had to know when he included what seems plain reading an exoneration to a degree of the president, that it would have triggered an up roar and he knew or should have known since you have a president who will go take the -- who would seize the possibility of bending those words to his most favorable interpretation that he should have foreseen this and then put out a plan, would you even have hired him in a law firm if you were doing a rollout of something this sensitive. you would have had a plan so you could have been more helpful to the public if nothing else. >> to lynn's point, you've peeked around the corners of the kennedy being in washington, but what do you make of how bill barr has reacted since that memo has come out.

there's this odd semantic thing we can't call the first thing that was a summary, a summary. maybe thereby something else coming before we get the full report. how much of this seems like a man reckoning with what he brought unaware to the degree of which it was going to rattle washington, d.c. >> he's reckoning with the system of checks and balances. god bless the congress. they are going to get the full report at some point. it may be in two months, it may be in five years. we don't know. we do know that bill barr is just the hype man, and so when he did in two days what mueller couldn't do in two years, which is to exonerate trump of obstruction of justice, he was doing what he was hired to do. bill barr is the attorney general that president trump has been fantasizing about for the last two years. the concern now is that he may pull the same stunt with the mueller report that he pulled

with that summary. he said he's got to scrub it of classified material, grand jury material, stuff that might hurt the privacy interest of third parties. that's a category he made up, by the way. by the time he's finished scrubbing it, there may be nothing left. >> help us understanding all the timing of that. you have a congress, it's getting more and more upset with how long this is taking. there was pressure at the very beginning for there to be this summary memo from the attorney gener general. as the weeks drag on here, how does that change the political conversation? >> you asked where we were and how it was different from where we are and how it was different from where we were. even though the report says that they found no evidence of collusion, and then of course the attorney general says that president trump did not obstruct justice, we were talking about

this before, if you look at the polling that has been done since the summary report came, people are very, very seeped into whatever views they had already. if they believe that president trump obstructed justice, they still believe that. if they think he was harassed, they still believe that as well. when the redacted report comes out, it's unlikely that it's going to change people's perceptions on either of those points. and to that point as well, president trump, you were talking about all the tweets that he sent, he's set a narrative here and he's played that up in the interim amount of time. by the time it comes out, he's set the tone. >> expound upon the polls just a little bit more. you had a president very eager to come out of the gate, shaping the narrative, he's lost that threat a coupley don't we see m

with what was determined in that note? >> the first thing is, even before the report came out, fox news had a poll showing that most americans didn't feel like it was likely to change their minds. they had the exact imprebait. republicans already bought into this idea that trump has been saying no collusion, no collusion, no collusion, right? and trump's critics, whatever they see is evidence toward their point. most americans are still skeptical. this idea that trump was trying to get ahead of it, i didn't work. most americans are let's wait and see or we haven't seen enough yet. and i think it's important to remember that there are gaps in what barr's letter says -- >> no full sentence is quoted. >> not the word collusion. we're talking about a very specific charge. we're talking about the letter itself says we could not exonerate him on obstruction.

there's reason to want to wait and see this whole thing that is justified. >> also, i want to add one thing quickly, seeing what the president has not said. the president has talked about collusion, obstruction. rudy giuliani claimed, if you were to look into the obama administration, it was a totally clean obama administration. rudy giuliani is not the lawyer. president trump, he's not made claims that have went that far. as we continue and we see what the investigators in the house look at, president trump, we know, could have additional problems. but it's important to remember that that is not exactly what mueller was looking into. >> we marvelled at the silence surrounding southwest d.c. you've seen the articles in the post, about what members of that team are saying, and we're getting a sense that the prepared summaries of each of

these sections with the intention that they would be made public, the justice department pushing back on that. there's a level of dissatisfaction now that's permeating the conversation about this report. i want to draw upon you as a former federal prosecutor what you make of the fact that that silence is broken and you have members of that team voicing this discontent. >> they're mad as hell. it's one thing when democrats are complaining the way the mueller report has been characterized by barr has been inaccurate or incomplete. but when mueller's own team starts letting the word out -- when i was in the department of justice, you did not talk about your cases. and the investigators or some of the lawyers have let their associates know that what mueller said about the report is not right. and especially with regard to obstruction. we know that the report contains substantial evidence that

president trump committed obstruction of justice. we know that because that's why they could not exonerate trump on that front. it could go either way, they would have done the same thing that they would have done with collusion, it doesn't reach the level that we can't make any case upon it. they want congress to make the determination about whether the obstruction evidence reaches the levels of high crimes and misdemeanors needed for impeachment. >> that's an important point. here's where i think the public would have been served better. i keep going back to this. right now as fran chess ka said, trump has been able to bake in, for most people who have busy lives, the report is out, which isn't true, and he says he's fine, cool, let's move on on. >> that started before that memo

came out. the no collusion mantra has been over and over and over again for months. >> let's say you want to be a good citizen, i paid attention, i listened to trump, it's out, it's done. so the point of leaving it to congress is a too big a gap. i want to put this out there, counsel. you can't -- you have to write it down. you have to say in the summary that we shouldn't be left to guess that the reason he didn't want to come to a collusion is he thought congress. you got to write this stuff down to put it clearer, to have the intent, when courts look at things, they look at legislative intent. it wouldn't have -- couldn't barr, again, know or should have known the confusion he's causing. couldn't mueller maybe written a summary of summaries that he knows the rules about grand jury

evidence -- >> he may have. we know they were having conversations before the report was formally issued. but bill barr was hired to do one thing. he was hired to be as crafty as he could when that mueller report came out and he did exactly the job that trump -- >> last word. you were talking about cunning. >> absolutely. when the leaks start coming, he could have said, now that barr is complaining he would have released the summary but there's too much grand jury information, he should have looked on page four was the summary that we scrubbed of anything. >> we'll come back in just a moment. the president throwing red meat to his conservative base. the gold star father who's challenged the president's immigration rhetoric will join me next live on msnbc.

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♪ welcome back to "up." president trump may have backed off his promise to close the u.s. southern border, but he's ramping up the rhetoric regarding illegal immigration. >> our country is full. we're full. our system is full, our country is full. can't come in. our country is full. what can you do? we can't handle anymore. our country is full. can't come in. i'm sorry. >> after speaking to the republican jewish coalition, he proceeded to hammer home his take on immigration in a series of tweets saying we have

redeployed 750 agents at the southern border in order to help with the large scale surge of illegal migrants trying to make their way into the united states. all this as government lawyers tell nbc news that it might take up to two years to reunite families that were separated as part of the zero tolerance policy. joined now by khizr khan who lost his son in the iraq war. i want to start with what we heard the president saying. he was reprizing something he said on friday on a visit to the u.s.-mexico border. this is a different message the united states is sending to the world. >> yes. well, mr. trump needs to take a trip to ellis island.

think about his family's migration here as well. but we don't expect that from him. and the reason for that is that this is his statement is an affront to america's compassion, america's decency. people still remember their background, how they came to be americans through immigration. it is not just this statement, but his entire policy, his statement against the immigrants. this is red meat to his base that supports him. unfortunately, they also have figured it out that he does not have any policy. this is just division. and this is just to exploit

their sympathy and their support. so he is doing exactly the same thing as he's done, diversion. when the mueller report is about to be released, i hope it comes sooner so we can see, the world can see, america can see, the majority of this country can see his misdeeds, nonpayment of taxes and other misdeeds. the reality of that, he is creating this hype again, this division, this hatred of communities. this hate against immigrants is a page from the nazi germany's playbook and the result of that was second world war. he is following that line all over again, sowing division and

hatred. most of america has figured it out that he does not have any policy. if he had any policy, his people would have been his supporters and the people in his government would have been working. what is causing this surge? the sooner the surge, instead of making a statement and causing more division and hatred among people. >> lynn sweet is here with me in new york. i see you nodding. >> i would like to pick up on that. because of all the groups speaking to the republican jewish coalition, to say that the country is full, i want to read something from the holocaust museum that i pulled, that i think is a reminder of all the groups he was talking about. when you think about a welcoming country, like most other countries, the united states did

not welcome jewish refugees from europe. in 1939, 83% of americans were opposed to the admission of refugees. that is something to think about. of all the groups that the president would go to and all the groups that were not picking up on the point afterwards that the country is full, you would have thought that of all the groups that -- and with the exception, i guess, of this group, it has been jewish groups that are well aware of the anti-jewish immigration policies of the 1930s that with other nations that kept jews who ended up being murdered during the holocaust from coming to the united states. so you would think that of all the groups of president trump to give the message that the country is full, saying that to a jewish group is particularly, particularly something of note.

>> on that point, this is a president who has been ignorant of history for a very long time. there have been these moments this week where the president has been unfamiliar with his own personal history saying that his dad was born in germany when in fact that wasn't the case. talk about that. >> it's been a pattern over course of trump's existence in politics. he misrepresents his own personal history, talking about chain migration, when his own family came to live with his sister, that's how he came to the united states. actually went up to the bronx on friday and saw the building where his father was born. he wasn't born in germany. he was born in the bronx. it's an immigrant community. he seems to lack any awareness of the fact that he himself is part of this american story.

this thing that we have celebrated as -- to your point, the poem, you see the statue of liberty, and that represents you're welcome to the united states. it represented that welcome to his grandfather and he set that is aside, and the reason is politics because it is politically valuable, it has been since june 16th of 2015 when he announced his candidacy to pick on immigrants. when i spoke to who was running that, he was aware of it. but he also said, i understand that trump was just trying to appeal to voters. it's remarkable to me that he could be that sanguid about that issue. and the president himself seems to be unaware of it. >> for him to pitch it as a space thing, like we don't have enough -- >> yes. >> everybody remembers when president trump called african

and central american countries s-hole countries, we need more people from countries like norway. i wonder what he meant by countries like norway? we know in trump's america there's plenty of room for white people from white countries. >> if the country was full, then if -- i know trump supporters keep telling us yorks ku can't be literally. since -- let's say he thinks the country is full, then why didn't he order the borders, every point of entry closed, because we're full. he thinks like a hoteler. he's turning the sign -- >> one line, our country's is full, that is a phrase that will alarm pregnant women.

francesca, jump in here. >> you were talking about shutting the border. he kept saying, i'm going to do it this time. no, i'm not playing games. and of course you had business leaders responding to that say, whoa, this would hurt american workers, american businesses. just the threat that you could close the border, whatever that means, that's a whole longer story, shut down the border is very hurtful to american businesses and i talked to experts this week, economic, immigration experts about that and they said that closing the ports of entry wouldn't actually solve the problems that the president says he wants to solve, like the asylum claims. if folks are coming to the country before, if they were coming legally through the ports of entry, they could not come through the ports of entry, so he could increase the number of people coming illegally. they said in terms of the drugs, that those are coming through some of the trucks and the

administration talked this week about how they would want to keep those lanes over, so as not to hurt trade. there's a longer discussion to be add about this. the president says he's not going to do it now for roughly a year. so it may be a null issue. >> who knows. in trump's calendar, a year may not have 12 months. >> khizr khan, one last question for you. there was a report that a man was arrested for making a threat against ill lan omar. and i recall after you spoke at the convention, you spoke about all of the letters, all of the notes you received and you said some of those were threats. but i wanted to give you the opportunity to remark on that, the fact that this sitting member of congress is receiving a death threat. >> most of the letters, 99.999% had been wonderful support,

encouragement because that the the america that we live, so encouraging, so decent, so compassionate towards newcomers, towards those that stand for the values of this country, most of the letters. a few bad ones we handed over to the people where they should go. those things are in process. throughout my travel, i have seen the real america, i have seen the majority of america. that has figured out the techniques that this president is using to divide and sow the hate among americans. america has figured it out in 2016, they had not. so they fell for it. but now majority of america has figured it out, and this episode, that is so well answered. i was so heartened to read

philip bump's article this morning. it was so heartening and i encourage everybody to read it. it answers we are full. he's running a motel now all over again. and he has pulled the sign that the motel is full. that is not the case. and the majority of america has figured it out whenever he gets in trouble, in real trouble, he's so close to being exposed through the mueller's report, wait until this nation reads the real report, wait until it gets in the hands of the public. and then we would know his reality. so he is panicking and what my concern is now that he's going to be worse to create the division and create the hatred among americans, but one good thing that by nature america is compassionate, america makes mistake, which it did in 2016, but now they have realized what

a cost we have paid for that mistakes. >> khizr khan, always a pleasure to speak with you. thank you very much for the time. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back here on "up." e on "up. i don't keep track of regrets. i never count the wrinkles. and i don't add up the years. but what i do count on, is staying happy and healthy. so, i add protein, vitamins and minerals to my diet with boost®. boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals your body needs. all with guaranteed great taste. the upside- i'm just getting started. boost® high protein be up for life.

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>> if you have a windmill

anywhere near your house, congratulations, your house just went down 75% in value. and they say the noise causes cancer. you tell me that one. >> welcome back to "up." let's set the record straight, windmills do not cause cancer. president trump has been obsessed with windmills, railing against them at campaign rallies. chuck grassley called the president's latest claim idiotic. his dislike of wind goes back 20 years when he tried to start a wind farm from being built by his resort. >> wind, windmills, if it doesn't blow you can forget about television for that night. darling, i want to watch

television. sorry the wind isn't blowing. >> the windmills. bing, that's the end of that windmill. >> if your house is staring at a windmill. not good. >> stay with us, this break is going to be a breeze. we'll have more in just a moment. so they'llay? i think they'll be fine. voya. helping you to and through retirement.

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our interest is really from a counter intelligence point of view and that is where foreign

parties trying to use the committee as a way for exerting influence over the incoming administration. >> that's the chair of the house judiciary committee telling my colleague the purpose behind investigating the president's inauguration fund-raising efforts, according to "the wall street journal," it's seeking to interview a trump organizer of the committee looking to see how the fund raised and spent more than a hundred million dollars. that is twice the amount barack obama raised in 2009. the committee is having investigated by the manhattan u.s. attorney's office as well and nbc news review found at least 14 major contributors to that fund were nominees to become ambassadors, donating an average of slightly over $350,000 apiece. the trump administration says it qualifies them to represent the u.s. abroad. let me start with you, paul,

help us understand this focus now that mueller has submitted his report, that investigation has closed down. there were all these other -- >> it's against the law -- sam patton who was part of paul manafort's criminal enterprise has pled guilty to giving money -- exchanging money with konstantin kilimnik, a very familiar name from the past, so he could attend the inauguration. i think this -- the inaugural committee is tied with the trump administration as creating a tremendous amount of exposure for people in the trump world. so i think the southern district of new york, the federal prosecutors, will say to the senate intelligence committee, hold up, we got this. they have a subpoena up to the trump inauguration committee and

you have to name the possible crimes, the crimes they name are conspiracy against the united states, false statements, money-laundering. so they're on the case. this is just the beginning. >> you have the inaugural committee there at the center, but there were strings being tied to all of these other investigations. how do you see -- which do you see taking the lead here. paul brings up the federal prosecutors here in manhattan. how much is that the center? >> you have house investigations, multiple committees, senate investigations. so i think we're on three roads that may intersect but when you -- different leads, different times. the most aggressive congressional investigations now with the democrats just taking control of the house, they are just starting. we know the house judiciary committee did 81 requests for information, everyone in trump world, if they don't comply they will probably subpoena. the lead is the entity that can

indict which is the southern district now. that will be in the background. so the lead organization maybe hearings that we're going to have, that will be bringing in some of the people involved, no date certain, but that is how it will work. and the background investigators for this senate and house committees are looking -- the most aggressive investigations are going to be in the house and ways and means. so i would say in terms of what the public is going to know in more realtime, i would look at what the house is doing. >> who is stephanie, the organizer? >> friend of melania trump -- >> also a party planner. >> also a party planner, right. and by the way, if you ask the white house, they had nothing to do with this inauguration committee, this has nothing to do with the president, even though very clearly they were -- >> it was his inauguration.

>> it was his inauguration. exactly. despite the fact it was his inauguration, they're saying he had nothing to do with it and they're distancing themselves from it. going back to our earlier point about what the president is saying and what the president isn't saying, this is an area where they're not claiming that the committee did nothing wrong. they're saying that, we don't have anything to do with that, whatsoever. >> can i make one point? the difference in what congress is trying to do and what the federal prosecutors are trying to do is this, the house and particularly the democrats and the mission of congress in general, is to tell the whole story. prevent -- if they identify problems, figure out if there's a legislative way from happening again. that's quite a different standard omission than a prosecutor who's looking for crimes to pursue. >> phillip i'll ask you about the role of tom barrack. i wrote a list of all the questions i have based on

reporting that had come up over those last two years and what had to do with an investigation into with the gulf states. how does this fold into that? is this going to give us some of those answers that might be buried in mueller's report? >> i think that it's one of the outstanding questions, all of these various threads we've seen moving forward, where are they going to overlap? and it's -- you're asking me a question, it's hard to say, look at all the random things that are cropped up in the past. it's hard to determine. but i think it gets to a broader point. there's a fascinating interview that was given, the spokesman for trump's legal team, this was in july of 2017 that there was a call -- >> ivanka was sleeping when this

happened. >> exactly. they're hassling him because he gave a different statement to a news outlet and he was baffled that the president of the united states without an attorney on the phone is having a nonprivileged conversation. and i think that we sort of underappreciate that to some extent. that donald trump was not expected to be the nominee. i'm in a position, i didn't expect to be in. the entire establishment hate me, so i get paul manafort who are going to come be on my team and so they are unaware of what the rules are because they haven't been through this before. so they do a bunch of things that are dumb and criminal. they bring together all these random people and suddenly they're in charge of these things and they do what they do, and it turns out that maybe some

of it is a little sketchy. >> i watched the inauguration on tv, but i didn't look a hundred million dollars worth of lovely. >> it's become a pattern which was these people weren't vetted, michael flynn, so many of these have had these problems and had to leave. >> there was no the curiosity on the point of president trump on down to try to -- just to try to put in a department of doing things right from the beginning. >> there you go. might have been a good idea. we'll come back here in just a moment. one of the potential candidates, stacey abrams, set to sit down with joy in the next hour. who are some of the others as the crowd starts to come into focus. to improve short-term memory.

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including joe biden, stacey a grams, a grams was on "morning joe" this week and addressed rumors that she's going to run as joe biden's vm. >> vp. >> i do not believe that you run for second place and i do not intend to enter a presidential race as a primary candidate for vice president. >> let's pick up from there ahead of this interview that joy reid is going to do with stacey abrams. that open question about what she does going forward, also another open question about joe biden as well. he was in washington, d.c. this week and certainly didn't quiet speculation that he would be seeking a run. >> from what i hear he is on track even with the -- even with the controversy over his touching or -- >> inappropriate -- making people uncomfortable. >> making people uncomfortable. >> sorry. i have to be careful with that. >> i have a foundational thought here, if i could share it. >> okay. >> why? why? >> why is he running? >> no, why are there so many? here is the thought that actually in talking with a smart

strategist this is the insight is i think on this, no one thought to get in in 2016 right after trump was elected. the reason there is no big front runner now is that the public doesn't really know anyone outside of biden -- >> sanders who ran. >> -- and sanders. that's why they are up there. just think even with trump winning no one of all the senators running said, i am going to run now because the president is who he is. you didn't need to have two years of this chaos to say now, do you know what, i ought to run. >> what you're saying, though, phillip, is that we should have four years this have chaos. this should have happened in 2016? >> it's a reason why people are all getting in now. >> i think that's generally true but i think there's another aspect is that donald trump won. donald trump was one of 17 candidates, everyone was like jeb bush, scott walker, i can't even think of all the other people that were running -- i mean, i can, but -- anyway, the

point being that donald trump did one thing very well and that is build a core base of support right off the bat by targeting immigration, by focusing on mexico and the border. he built this core base of people, 20%, 25% of people right off the bat from the start and that was enough to move him into iowa and move him into new hampshire and past all these primaries until it got to a point where he seemed inevitable enough it was like, all right, the heck with it, let's coalesce around him. he established a pattern whereby you can be a random guy and suddenly get a base of support and move on in the primaries. with 20 people in the democratic field, you know, i don't think this is the moment that joe biden is the ideal democratic candidate for a lot -- a lot of reasons. >> go ahead. >> he's got a base of support and that is enough to get him through iowa, new hampshire, he could end up being the nominee. >> how do you avoid that defeatist coalescing? there's going to be a point where you have 15, 20 candidates and some point people will throw up their hands and go with the most likely one, i spo he is.

>> maybe. maybe they will go with the one who they like the best. so the cheesecake factory actually the pumpkin cheesecake is very different -- >> fair enough. >> sanders is really different from harris who is really different from cory booker. i think the choice is really good. i think this is what the party needs. this is what the country needs. >> so the really different from factor, this is something that in talking to voters -- i was at the national action network conference. >> here in new york. >> yeah, here in new york on friday. what's really interesting about that is as they were saying they're hearing many of the same things from all of these democrats so far, many are embracing the same or relatively similar, not the same, but relatively similar positions on climate change and on healthcare. and i know that we aukd talked about differentiating themselves in large fields like this, but to your point so far and what you were saying before, it's been very hard for them to find issues where they can really

stand out, like the immigration and run with that issue so far. you've seen them sort of try, right? we've heard all of these things now about the filibuster or about the electoral college and really testing those ideas out. >> you've got these candidates, eric swalwell hit sitting on the sidelines who wants to run on guns. there are ones in the race to make the point known. >> last word to you. >> two things quickly. >> yes. >> okay. they know from past experience that eric swalwell not running for president is just another guest on shows, all of a sudden if you run for president you get more attention, there's absolutely no loss there. second big thought and why 2020 is different, it's because you have california moving up its primary, all a contender has to do is survive respect blee in iowa and new hampshire, do okay, go to the march primary where

camilkamala harris has sewn up because she's from there. >> lin sweet, wonderful to see you here in new york, paul butler, francesca chambers, phillip, thank you for joining us. stacey abrams will join joy reid up next here on "a.m. joy." . j." . (straining) i'll take that. (cheers) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. in two great flavors.

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there's a process going forward, i think it's moving quickly, i mean, the attorney general got out his letter putting forward the principle conclusions very quickly, he said you will have it by the 15th or sooner. that's why i find it ironic that people are talking about subpoenas already for the document when we're probably less than a week away or about a week away from getting them. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." it has now been 14 days since attorney general william barr released his four-page letter giving his interpretation of special counsel robert mueller's nearly 400-page report on his investigation into donald trump. two weeks and still neither you nor i have seen a single page of the mueller report. and yet donald trump's lawyers are out on tv this morning trying to spin barr's interpretation in trump's favor. arguing that the president has been completely exonerated, but even trump doesn't seem to be bu