for decades. >> does it differ from the cages you put your dogs in when you let them stay outside? is it different? >> yes. >> in what sense? >> it's larger. it has facilities, it provides room to sit, to stand, to lay down. >> the person who oversaw the seizing of children wasn't tough enough for the president. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, april 8th. with us we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire, tom nichols, vjim vandehei. so kirstjen nielsen's out.

>> before we even start, there are people gathering in time square looking up at the ticker tape there, the ticker, to see jonathan lemire. it's begun. when john glen was orbiting the earth and people were there, standing there, looking up at the number one. >> the longest red sox streak. >> the longest journey begins with a solitairy step in the arizo desert, joe, and the victory -- the 1-0 win that perhaps puts us in the right direction going forward. there it is. >> like the 70s song, "ain't no stopping us now, we're on the move." ladies and gentlemen, your boston red sox. >> tomorrow they're going to raise the banner and let's just hope they don't get booed.

>> tomorrow's their first game home and they get their rings. let's hope they don't hock them. it's a sort of strange welcome back to fenway. >> strange open to the show since only two people know what you're talking about, joe, and that would be you and jonathan lemire. thanks for that. there is a week's worth of stories breaking on this monday morning. president trump calls benjamin netanyahu your prime minister while speaking to an american jewish group. >> you know what, politicians preaching dual loyalty, that makes me sad. it's anti-semitism. >> i wonder if kevin mccarthy is just as outraged. >> robert mueller is the guy that -- after barr's letter came

out, he said he did an honorable job as special counsel. >> you're my friend, you're not my friend. it's confusing. he's gone back to not being a friend. do exonerated people always lash out like this, i wonder. >> that's how guilty people look. >> and tons of 2020 news, including cory booker's fund-raising numbers, joe biden's handling of the headlines right now. we'll get to all of that. >> let's start, though, mika, with the abrupt exit of kirstjen nielsen. >> she tweeted "i have agreed to stay on until wednesday, april 10th." when you agree to stay on, it's two weeks, two months, six months. this is you're outta here or i'm outta here. i wonder which one it was. she says she's going to assist

with an orderly transition. in two days. and ensure that key d.h.s. missions are not impacted. president trump asked for her resignation at the white house on sunday evening just 48 hours after nielsen joined him for a visit to the border. officials told the "washington post" that a sign of discord came on friday when the white house yanked the senate nomination of a long-time federal immigration official, ronald botello, to lead immigration and custom enforcement after stephen miller lobbied trump to cut him loose. on his way to the border, trump spoke about the decision to shake up his immigration enforcement team. >> mr. president -- >> we're going in a little different direction. ron's a good man but we want to go in a tougher direction. >> so jonathan lemire, you hear

about how harsh the president's border policies have been, you hear about how harsh kirstjen nielsen's border policies have been she's been trying to enact for the president of the united states. explain how while the president says he could shoot somebody on 5th avenue and get away with it and there are vial indications he can, and with having to run in 2020, democrats are saying when barack obama left office, border crossings were at a 50-year low. since you've got i don't know in the -- gotten in there, they've skyrocketed since you entered

the office. >> the origin of the department of homeland security was formed at 9/11. the priority for this administration is these border crossings. the nature of the immigrants coming over the southern borders have changed, it's fewer single men, laborers, families, that's charging more clogged conditions in the facilities at the border to be sure. this is the president. keep this in mind. she and the president never really got along. she has ties to the bush family. he never felt she was quite tough enough. in the recent weeks and enough and immigrants crossing has grown, he has grown considerably more frustrated. stephen miller, senior aide in the white house, his inflouence has grown and jared kushner as

well. they felt she wasn't projecting enough toughness, the same reason the head of ice is on his way out. he wants to make this the central issue he runs on again for 2020. this is at the forefront of his mind. she went into the white house with a resignation letter in hand, unsure if she was going to resign or be fired. she oversaw the family separation policy, which prompted protests across the country and heartbreaking images of children in cages and this administration felt that policy was not extreme enough, that was not hard enough and they're going to try and take it further in the days and weeks ahead. >> that's what donald trump had said over the weekend. he keeps talking about a tougher and tougher policy, keeps saying repeatedly to nobody in particular, it's closed, we're closed week have no more room. and hans nichols at the white

house, this always was a contentious relationship. donald trump seemed to teak pleasure in humiliating kirstjen nielsen both publicly and privately in profront of cabine members. how did this go down? >> he's done this to many cabinet members. in a lot of ways this is a personality difference, the president clearly frustrated with her as well. the policy differences they had are more difficult to suss out. that gives you an indication the policy is going to be the same. if anything, it's going to be harsher. if the acting gets through, there's technical difficulties whether he can become acting homeland security. if he does become that person, he's in a similar position as patrick shanahan is over defense, that is to say entirely dependent on the president on a day-to-day basis to do the

president's bidding for their job security. that is unique dynamic but it's one that the president really relishes. when he has an acting, he says jump and they have to say how high? >> wow. president trump spent most of the weekend trying to get a handle on his border policy. saturday night he tweeted, quote, we have redeployed 750 agents at the southern border's specific ports of entry in order to help with the large scale surge of illegal migrants trying to make their way into the united states. an apparent reference to those lawfully seeking asylum. quote, this will cause traffic and commercial delays. but the president seemed frustrated by beefing up resources at the ports adding until mexico cleans up this ridiculous and massive migration, we will be focusing on border security, not ports of entry. in public appearances he vented

his desire to change the laws. >> now, congress has to act. they have to get rid of catch and release, chain migration, visa lottery. they have to get rid of the whole asylum system because it doesn't work and, frankly, we should get rid of judges. you can't have a court case everybody time somebody steps their foot on our ground. we've had some very bad court decisions. the florida decision is a disaster, i have to tell you. judge flores, whoever you may be, that decision is a disaster for our country. >> i know that doesn't sound like a wasp's name, donald, maybe that's why you talked about judge flores, but there is no judge flores. in fact, that decision you were talking about, donald, that bars actually the federal government from detaining minors for more than 20 days, the settlement of that case, that wasn't named

after a judge that you're suspicious of because their last name wasn't smith or jones. it was named after ginny flores, a 15-year-old migrant from el salvador. >> my lord. >> jim vandehei, comment on this politically. again, the president concerned going into the election he doesn't have a wall, plus he has all of these migrants coming up to the border and trying to cross the border. and, you know, on top of that, as far as his policies go, democrats can attack his policies as well because he wants to defund aid going to el salvador and other countries that actually would do a better job of keeping those migrants at home. >> politically he's calculating immigration will be a winner again. you're not going to get a soft

are line. you're going to get someone running homeland security that takes a much harder line than someone who already had a pretty hard line. the president wants somebody who will stretch what legal authority they have and push to ultimately shut down the border. he tries to portray this as a crisis of historic proportion. it's definitely a problem. even obama administration officials say we had a problem at the border. it's complicated to solve because so many people coming here coming from el salvador, guatemala, honduras, they're fleeing instability, gangs, basically bad places to live. so just beefing up security at the border won't necessarily fix that problem in the short term. the bigger problem, the thing people should pay attention to is you now have this pattern where almost everybody leaves this white house bitter. and especially in these national security positions. and where that matters is it just makes it so much harder to find somebody who will then come in and be the secretary of

defense, somebody who really wants to be a full-time chief of staff, someone who wants to come in and truly run the department of homeland security. in areas that the president cares about, he's going to intervene and want to you do things above and beyond what current law and press didn't might allow to you do. at some point something bad will happen and you do want really good people in the right positions to make good decisions based on what's doable and what's not doable and little by little that's getting harder. >> and of course the number of secretaries acting, sfrags officials, it just keeps growing. jim, what's also got to be a great concern for republicans politically is the president is now saying we're going to double down on this, this is going to be an issue for him in 2020. they pushed this issue in 2018. this was -- this was the centerpiece of donald trump's

campaign, fear and loathing surrounding caravans, disease-ridden caravans coming to a neighborhood near you, and republicans suffered the largest midterm loss ever. and the electorate only, pands in 2020. this becomes an even more untenable political position to take as the electorate expands during a presidential election. >> i tend to agree with that. it hurt republicans in the off area election. i think if donald trump who has his finger on the pulse of the white working class, he really believes this excites them. he really believes this is the most important political topic. if you look at the amount of tweets, the amount of time, the amount of announcements that he allocates to immigration versus any other topic, this is clearly what consumes him and consumes his presidency.

and he thinks that it's now a test of his toughness. can he shut down the border? can he force democrats to do what he wants to do? and he's had a string of losses, which only makes him more frustrated and wants people to do what he wants done now. when she didn't do that, she resigned. >> good lord. you've been talking to your sources about this, not tough enough? what is the legacy of kirstjen nielsen and what policies should we be looking forward to see the president pushing given the fact that she wasn't tough enough? >> mika, we've heard some of this already. the fact that shoo wasn't tough enough is difficult for a lot of people to swallow. we talk a lot about family separation. that was obviously one of the policies that gets the most attention because of the sheer cruelty and vastness of it that we sill don't know. let's not forget it was on her watch, too, that tear gas was tired fired across the border

into a group of mike grant. it was on her watch on the protocol which keeps asylum seekers in mexico, not into the u.s., while their cases unfold and if her replacement does step in, this is a guy who has signaled he's willing to be tougher. he held a press conference in el paso with as a backdrop a group of family and children behind razor wire under a bridge on the rocks. something bad has already happen happened. as a result, children died in u.s. custody. that could happen again. >> that's her legacy. it doesn't sound like we completely understand the nature

of her departure. she might have been fed up, i can only hope that. she didn't seem fit for the job. she didn't seem like she was able to articulate the policies well, she always seemed like she had her back and got caught in these ridiculous sound bites when she was trying to explain kwla a cage wasn't. this is again the taint of trump when you leave with a horrific legacy. i don't know how many more cabinet secretaries can handle this. >> you think they would look -- >> it's right there. >> from the beginning donald trump didn't trust her. she knew general kelly well. donald trump didn't trust her because she had worked for george w. bush, a republican who had always been very forward looking as it pertained to legal immigration and handling immigrants and handling mike grants. george w. bush got 45%, 46% of

the hispanic vote in the 2004 election. he was positively progress of co -- progressive to most republicans in the area and that's who she worked for before. it is evidence that no matter what you do for this man, no matter how much you mhumiliate yourself, you're still going to leave with him angry at you, blaming you and your reputation in tatters. but, tom nichols, we don't just have to talk about kirstjen nielsen as it pertains to this. we can talk about the entire republican party. the republican party, that again of george w. bush, was forward looking when it came to immigration. president bush tried to pass comprehensive immigration reform. we can talk about ronald reagan's last address to america, talking about the promise of immigration, the

greatness of america and when the statue of liberty stopped opening her arms to the rest of the world, well then, america's greatness would recede. that was our republican party when we were members of the republican party. something very, very different now. and again, i want to underline this again, tom, they tried this nonsense, this hatred, this demagoguery in 2018 and the results were absolutely disastrous in a midterm election. just how bad will this go for donald trump in 2020 if he is both harsh and extraordinarily impotent when it comes to handling his own borders? >> the president's always counting on shoring up that 30 to 35% of the base and i think the goal is always to squeeze every last vote out of the angriest members of that base. he's not trying to broaden it,

he's just trying to get the very last votes. and with this attack on george flores, can an attack on judge miranda, judge esposito be par behind? the other thing that's a problem here and this is where republicans end up throwing up their hands because they can't talk to the president or negotiate with him, this is a president who doesn't know how things work. he literally do the not understand how the levers of government work. so it's really interesting through this whole discussion all morning where we're talking about the president wants somebody who is going to be tougher, no one knows what that means. well, i want you to be tougher, i want you to do something different. up know, if, as we've always said this morning, if putting children in cages and separating this many from their families isn't tough enough, then what does that mean? i think it's because the president just doesn't understand how any of this gets done on a daily basis.

>> also, this move comes against the backdrop of a national emergency, which the president declared over the opposition of members of his own party. let's remember, there was a veto that had to be done here. this was not something he had universal support. in some ways this isolates him further on this issue. he is betting big this worked for him in 2016, it can again in 2020, but it can further splinter a republican party that as popular as he is among the base, there are reservations on capitol hill about what he's done and how he's handling immigration. >> this helps him, mika, in the red states. this is not going to help him where he needs to expand his electorate. er that trying to expand the map and right now he's got a 31, 32% reelect in wisconsin playing this card for three years. he's got a 31%, 32% reelect in michigan playing this card. his numbers have plummeted in florida. >> yeah. >> reporter: -- playing this card. his numbers have plummeted in

pennsylvania playing this card. he lost more members of his own party than any republican president since richard nixon was driven from office in watergate, months after watergate. this, let me say it slowly for donald, this is a losing issue. you have your 34, 35%, donald, this is a losing issue. >> and for get the politics of it. this is one of the sickest things about this presidency. hans nichols at the white house, what are you looking at today as you continue to cover this story and the dynamics around it? >> i'm looking to see whether her departure date gets accelerated and we have a situation similar to mattis where he was supposed to stay on for two months and all of a sudden was out by the close of business once the president figured out how critical he was

to the president. just to a numbers point, the president doesn't believe those numbers. he believes his gut. when he talked to, say, the jewish republican coalition in las vegas, he goes back to the midterm elections in ohio and florida. he somehow feels -- he insists he's winning with his base and that's why he continues to press this. he looks at 2018, the midterm elections, and he sees a redo you understanding endorsement of trump's policies particularly on the border. he lost a lot of seats in the suburbs but i don't think he's losing a lot of sleep on that. he's looking at this state by state, not county by county and he's certainly to the looking at it to bring the country together. he simply wants to get past that electorate date. he's just thinks it's much big

are than we do. it's going to come down to whether or not donald trump's gut is right or whether or not the facts are right. guys? >> if you move ohio and florida to the side, donald trump has to win wisconsin, he's got to win michigan, he's got to win pennsylvania and this doesn't look look this is driving numbers in any direction that is meaningful for him, but we'll see. that's good insight from nbc's hans nichols. thank you so much, hans. >> if there's anything amusing out of this horrific policy and this horrible story, it's the homeland security secretary, i think it's a veiled jab. "i have agreed to stay on till tomorr tomorrow." she's so out of there. she's done. i don't know how else you can read that. usually people agree to stay on through a transition. she's out the door. it's hours. >> and still ahead, president

trump's suggestion that jewish americans are led by netanyahu. elon omar was attacked by donald trump over the weekend and threatened with death by one of his supporters. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. plants capture co2. what if other kinds of plants captured it too? if these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. carbon capture is important technology - and experts agree. that's why we're working on ways to improve it. so plants... can be a little more... like plants. ♪ state of the art technology makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx.

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a special thanks to representative omar of minnesota -- (crowd boos). >> oh, i forgot. she doesn't like israel, i forgot. i'm so sorry. >> those remarks about elon omar in front of a conservative jewish group on saturday came

less than a day after a new york man was charged with threatening her life. the man was charged with threatening to assault and murder a united states official for a phoned-in threat he allegedly made last month. he told investigators he was a patriot that, he loves the president and that he hates radical muslims in our government. this is according to the fbi affidavit. congresswoman omar responded with a bilingual tweet, "my lord forgive my people for they do not know." trump implied dual loyalty, which is the same anti-semitic trope for which congresswoman omar has been criticized. >> i stood with prime minister netanya

netanyahu, benjamin netanyahu, i stood with your prime minister at the white house to recognize israeli sovereignty over the golan heights. the golan heights is something i've been hearing about for a long time. >> in response the american jewish committee tweeted, quote, mr. president, the prime minister of israel is the leader of his or her country, not ours. statements to the contrary from staunch friends or harsh critics feed bigotry. joe, i just get scared watching this. it just seems so far beyond, just far from who we are. >> well, listen, it was like he was mr. mcgoo up there. >> he thinks he's a comedian, i think. >> when he says, "your prime minister," he's being bigoted. that is, again, the president who actually reveals himself to

believe that jews in america have dual loyalty and if you are a jew in the united states, that wo your prime minister must be benjamin netanyahu.ildly offens. it's the same anti-semitic trope that people were attacking congresswoman omar for. here's yet another example of the president of the united states inspiring his supporters to threaten politicians, to threaten members of the press, to threaten people on the president's enemies list and yet he never can bring himself to come out and actually condemn those threats and in this case, he doubled down attacking the congresswoman who this man said was going to put a bullet in her head, attacking this

congresswoman the next day in public. >> doubling down is the president's core skill set. it's what he does. it's one of the things he's best at. there are a lot of people out there who are unhinged, who make threats. but it seems like a pattern is emerging. instead of it being onesies and twosies and lone wolves, you're getting a rash of these incidents with people using the same language. i am always uncomfortable drawing drkt lines irect lines speeches but it's fair to say the president isn't doing anything to turn the temperature down on this. right after somebody's been threatened, you might want to let that joke go that day, might want to take a pass on that one and say today we're not going to

do the ilhan omar joke after something serious like that. the president doesn't treat politics like a serious business, like a serious, grave matter. he treats it like an ongoing kind of reality television show. i know that's a trope that we said but for him it really just boils down to what's working at the moment. >> go ahead, joe. >> the problem, mika, is this president time and time again inspires people to make death threats. the lieutenant out of maryland who actually had a kill list and was planning the assassination not only of members of the media but members of the democratic leadership and democrats that were on the campaign trail planning to run against trump.

he could not bring himself to condemn that prn who werson who attempting a wide scale assassination plot. >> the president is riffing. he flies by the seat of his pants and just goes extemporaneously on stage, but he's, in my opinion, playing with fire. and every time he opens his mouth, i feel like he takes this country down a peg. >> yeah, mika, i think you and i both know everyone speaking here this morning knows that words have consequences. that doesn't seem to have resonated with the president. the real danger here of course is that one these threats actually ends up coming true. we have to remember the backdrop across which we're having this conversation is at a time of rising islamophobia, strengthening white supremacy,

white nationalism, far-right extremist groups that have been growing not only in number but in actions over the last several years. we have to be really hesitant about drawing a straight line from any one set of words to any one set of actions, all of these things have been unfolding and growing steadily over the last several years. this administration, though, has done less to condemn it, has actually taken away resources from the kind of agencies and law enforcement that would actually address some of those threats, some of those threats that are increasingly going to threaten american communities and unfortunately i don't think we've seen the worst of it just yet. >> so, jim vandehei, we've been talking this morning about obviously the president's harsh rhetoric on the border, the harsh actions he's taken on the border. this speech where he's again constantly poking and prodding and trying, as tom said, trying to get that 33, 34, 35% aslidly.

what does the next year look like? he knows he has to win wisconsin, he knows he has to win michigan, he hopes to win minnesota hereby knows he has to win pennsylvania. what does the next year look like? does he do anything to try to expand that base out, or does he continue this strategy that has put him at a 31% reelect in your home state in michigan? >> he tells people, they look at the last year election, the off-year election as it was a referendum on him. they think his reelect is going to be a choice between him and someone that they're going to label as a socialist. so the language is going to get harsher, the line is going to get harder. they're going to try to portray him as the protector of capitalism, the guy who did what

he said he was going to do against a new green socialist. they think there's a hidden vote of 4% to 5% in the states you mentioned, they think if he's running against someone who is from the far left, they think those numbers go up, they think there's conservative white democrats and independents that will swing his way. once again, they think all of us are wrong at how we're looking at politics that, we're looking at polls that they don't think matter and issues that we don't think resonate like immigration do. to his credit, he was right last time and we were wrong. so i don't think it's insane to think he could be right. if you look at the dynamics in the democratic party, at least early on, they could be playing into his hands because a lot of the talk is on topics like the new green deal, medicare for all, other topics that could be characterized as socialism and

if it's a choice like that, that's what he thinks is his road to reelection. >> jim vandehei, thank you very much. democrats are on pace to have the largest presidential primary field in campaign history and some worry it's too many choices. nbc news political reporter joins us with that new reporting and insight. plus david drucker is looking at the huge fund-raising numbers that some freshman democrats are pulling in this those two new reports are straight ahead. and on april 17th, rur goiare yg to be there a week from wednesday, joe and his band, the independent counsel of funk, will be playing a gig at the cutting room in new york city. i think it's sold out but try. the show kicks off at 7 p.m. you can get a preview of some of his new songs including the track "austin texas" on filter.com. it's the world's leading play

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joining us now, alex seitz-wald. his latest piece, "when will it stop, the ever expanding democrat being field" and david drucker is with us. he's out with a new piece this morning entitled "democratic freshmen already posting huge fund-raising numbers" and joe cory booker, i think he came in at 5 million. so they're bringing in money but there's so many. how does this play out? >> it's so crowded. chaos continues. alex, we had claire mccaskill on the other day and she named three or four more people who were going to be jumping into this race. we'll ask you, where does it

end? >> we don't know. there's joe biden, eric swalwell, seth moulton, terry mcauliffe, stacey abrams, those off the top of my head who are still waiting to get in the race. >> and i heard all but one or two of those are definitely getting in. >> the dnc has expanded the debate to two nights, ten on each night and in case more candidates qualify for the debates. we are expecting a huge field that would be record breaking right there. republicans i talk to say they see an opportunity to sew chaos and pit all these candidates against each other. i've talked to behavioral consultants who say you may have buy are remorse.

1976 and 2016, for jimmy carter and donald trump, but as we well know with donald trump, entire party was not exactly satisfied with their choice then. >> we're going to get to your story about democratic freshmen raising a ton of money. you go back to 2017 and people were panicking about the 16, 17 candidates, my thoughts are the more the merrier. when you win that field, suddenly you get to the general election and, man, you a smooth running campaign. >> yeah, these candidates are really going to prove their mettle with this case. it's about the logistics of putting together a winning campaign that can navigate so much challenges, especially in the modern media era. you could end up with a prael

better-equipped candidate to deal with president trump, who for all of his political vulnerabilities is going to come at the democratic nominee in a very asymmetrical manner. the republicans and hillary clinton had trouble dealing with him and his ability to dominate the media and get under their skin in ways that many people thought you just can't do that, voters are going to reject it. it plusered the candidates so much that he attacked that it ended up working for him. i think this is a good opportunity for democrats to figure out how to iron out all of their issues. i do think the debates upcoming will smooth out the field a little. especially when you have a crowded debate stage, if you do well, it is a boone to your campaign. if you do particularly poorly as we saw with some republicans in '16, you just drop out. i think democratic voters are going to look at people that doesn't perform welfare reform in the debates and start to x them off and say if you can't do

well here, there's no way you're going to beat trump. >> what are the strategies to break through, 25 democrats, how do you break through all the noise? >> it's a big challenge. some of them are doing much better than others. they're each taking their own path and some are trying to be the policy candidate, some are taking a specific issue,ers try to present themselves uniquely. i think for a will the of them, they're just kind of hoping for lightning to strike nap can happen with social needia. think about beto o'rourke's moment with nfl players kneeling during the senate campaign and he's now having to compete with everyone else. for a lot of candidates, they're getting in and they're kind of hoping for the best and something like that strikes for hem, too. >> david, let's move from the presidential race to the

legislative races. we obviously know that the greatest challenge for freshmen members of congress is raising money and getting past the furst reelection. once you get past that first reelection, the odds of you staying in congress as long as you want to stay in congress goes up exponentially. up say the democratic freshmen are already posting some big fund-raising numbers. tell us about it. >> this is really interesting, joe. i took a look at the numbers across my desk first. and we're looking here at democrats that you and i may know about but most americans have never heard of. they've posted some huge first quarter numbers. the reason this is a big deal is, number one, it's right after

democrats captured the house, it's right after democratic donors, large and small, donated by the tons. what we're seeing here is that the momentum continues. there's no donor fatigue, no sort of resting on the fruits of victory and that tells you that, number one, republicans grg to have to work really hard to win back the house of representatives. it want a fluke. it not just going to be a obviously you would expect big numbers for presidential candidates. there's going to be a lot of energy to defeat trump. but when that is still seeping down to the house level, it tells you the enand republicans are really going o have a fight on their hands. >> those numbers, mika, are extraordinary. there 800,000 the first quarter.

i'll tell you alex's story, their stories go it the the massive bundlers still trying to figure out who exactly to get behind the support. if you can't pick a presidential candidate, you sure can write some checks to freshmen congressmen and congresswomen and make a big difference in 2020. >> i'm just wondering what that debate stage looks like. it's going to have to be 500 yards long. and i wonder, you know, how we -- how the democrats actually can with some candidates actually find a candidate that truly addresses the issues of the moment at this moment in history and take on trump. you wonder if the field gets just watered down.

>> well, look to joe's point. i think the bundlers are waiting to make up their minds. one of the things that has been so, siepting to watch in this incredibly crowded and diverse field of candidates that haven't been part of presidential commonwealth pan conversations before. the bread and butter issues will have but we're also having clfrgss abo clfrgss -- conversations about reparations and voter suppression and how to find it. so there's all these different parts of what make us who we are as a country and that matters and that could cause a candidate

to separate from the pack and to rise to the top in ways that they haven't in previous campaigns. amna nawaz, thank you. and thank you all for your reporting. still to come, the latest deadlidea deadline for brexit is this friday and there's still no deal in place. what's at stake for britain and the world. what's at stake for britain and the world.

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there are just a handful of days to go until the newest state for the u.k. to leave the e.u. and still there is no divorce deal in place. on friday british prime minister theresa may formally requested a second brexit extension, this time until june 30th while may also sat down with opposition labor party leader jeremy corbin in an effort to find some sort

of way forward. parliament has rejected may's brexit deal three times and has also rejected every brexit alternative put forward in a series of non-binding votes. >> let's bring in keir simmons. it's a story we like to talk about as much as possible because it proves the united states is not the only dysfunctional government in the world. >> we're pretty dysfunctional. by this point we're ready, just do something, anything. it is shocking nothing can get done there. get us up to date. what should we expect? >> right, and i think that sentiment may be the sentiment that inevitably eventually breaks through the polarization in the u.k., the down-the-middle division which has really caused the inability of britain's leaders to, you know, reach a conclusion. you know, joe, i'm going to say this every time i talk about

brexit this week, nothing i say right now may turn out to be right. that's where we are with brexit. we could crash out of the european union, it could be a long delay, it could be what they call a soft brexit. my prediction is that it will be a long delay. i think that's what advantages the europeans the most because the longer they can drag this out, the more they potentially persuade the british public that it's just too painful and the more likely they end up with britain still in the club either no brexit or a brexit that still keeps britain in the club. >> isn't the problem here, keir, that the british people basically asked the government to do something that's almost impossible? my favorite comment on brexit is the british journal u.s. who said the british people voted very resolutely to build a submarine out of cheese. so the government said, okay, here's your submarine out of

chase and people said, well, i don't like this, is doesn't work. the parliament seems to keep trying to educate the public on what they voted for and every time they go back to the people and say this is what brexit means, parliament and a fair number of the british public say, oh, that doesn't make sense. >> the debate that we should have had before the brexit vote. everybody who voted for brexit didn't vote economically. they voted for the national pride, if you like. but you know what the irony of it is that people who voted for pride in brexit have got humele yags. and actually that's really painful. >> yeah, well, it sounds like a very familiar story. >> that's one way of putting it. >> sounds look a very familiar

story. so, keir, let's go across the english channel and talk about trans, particularly the protests across france. we looked at some news reports this weekend a suggest that some of the energy has in fact drained out of those protests and it may be coming to an end. what can you tell us? >> well, we saw 6,000 protesters on the streets over the weekend so not many people but it's just a symbol, isn't it. france and macron are crucial in the brexit question. for macron, the opportunity of brks always delights in is the chance to humiliate the u.k., either by the u.k. crashing out or by the u.k. having to -- what it really illustratioil illustr

want to take a wider view, the many burning problems for europe, if you take chancellor merkel in germany, her loss of power and the question over who will take of her, italy and the economic issues they have there, europe is struggling, it continues to struggle. i don't think that story will go away and where has european always looked to for leadership? washington and of course here you have your on political ch-- own political challenges. >> keir simmons, thank you. weep are just getting started. it's the top of the morning this monday, april 8th. we have a lot of top exto talk about, including joe biden. >> let's discuss how to properly greet a woman. >> how about a hand shake. >> handshake is great.

>> how about if during that handshake, i go ahead and tickle her palm a little bit. >> i would say no tickling. >> okay, even on a hard day. how about a woman having a hard time and i lift up her shirt and do this? >> absolutely not. that gorgeous lift at the end of "dirty dancing," is that still okay? >> who would you do that. >> so funny. still with us white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire, columnist from "usa today" tom nichols and joining the conversation, houkasie hunt, columnist for the "new york

times" brett stevens and research fellow at the hoover institution, lanhee chen is with us this hour. >> we have a lot to talk about this morning, most importantly the beginning of the red sox historic streak. ain't no stopping us now. one is a lonely number. the streak begins, though, at one. but, casey, we were just showing the snl clip of joe biden, bide i don't know gets the snl treatment. i'm wondering what are you hearing about joe biden's preparations for running for president and whether he's been slowed down at all by the series of reports, the series of complaints that were aired last week towards his previous behavior of hugging and whatever else those complaints involved? >> well, joe, the one thing i can tell you is that it prompted

a surprising amount of, in my view anyway, hand wringing and concern among democrats. as i was having kind of private conversations on capitol hill over the course of the last week, i had so many democrats asking me, you know, what does this mean? what do you think about what this -- how this positions joe biden. there was a lot of concern and i don't think that the length of time that this story went on over the course week was reassuring to a lot of those people. many but they'rer in about whether or not he can pull it off. according to a lot of our best reporting, there but it also

doesn't seem to have moved his timetable at all. he's been saying all along he didn't want to get in too early, he would let everybody else sort themselves out before hoof stepped into the field. the question is whether he wasted whaef poe tns advantage he would have had going in. i think his fund-raising numbers are going to be one thing really to watch. he's acknowledged he's not necessariry a small dollar fund-raiser like some of these or candidates. if he comes in at the peak of what people are expecting as a front-runner, it's much easier to fall from that position, joe. >> right. mika, i thought it interesting while the story went on a while, i found it very interesting a lot of democrats, i'd suggest most democrats that spoke out were firmly in support of joe biden, strongly in support of joe biden last week.

>> yeah. and i feel look this is a major inside-the-bubble, inside twit are, checkmarks blue, check marks inside sort of the way, we -- i was surprised at the lack of criticism that our conversations on this show got last week. usually they get tons. and, you know, i did an inif a gram post on joe biden and immediately got almost 10,000 likes and all the kmnts were incredible stories about joe biden. one of the things i do worry about sometimes among progressives in the where we say

i'm sorry, this is how it's going to be. then we start sometimes creating what's called a circular firing squad where you start shooting at your allies because one of them is straying from purity on the issues. and when that happens, typically the overall effort and movement weakens. you have to recognize that the way we've structured democracy requires you to take into account people who don't agree with you and that by definition means you're not going to get 100% of what want. >> and all the pop -- we've already heard this morning that donald trump, whool understanding that he has weak

numbers in the upper midwest and wisconsin and michigan and pennsylvania, brett, domd, donald trump believes as weak as his numbers are, he's fine because he's going to be running against a socialist. mika was talking about the bubble. oh, the democratic party is lurching far left. ao you look at every single polls that been out and most democratic votes are are say they go want a candidate that moves the part more toward the middle. i'm just.

>> the problem is democrats and primary voters aren't necessarily the same body of people. i think if joe biden is des qualified or disqualifies himself from running over this, the the democratic party has some serious, serious problems. i kept waiting for another shoe to drop. what i learned is is that this i go performs eskimo kiss and if joe biden does not run, the presumptive front-runner is bernie sanders. >> correct. >> if that stays the case and i don't think people should dismiss it because i remember dismissing the idea that donald trump was going to remain the front-runner despite his strong

early poll numbers. if that's the case, i think a lot of people in suburbia are going to look at the devil they know, the 45th president and bernie sanders and stick with the devil they know. so i hope democrats gain a sense of proportion and reason and keep their eye on the big picture, which is what happens in november next year, not what happens next spring, and nominate an electable, normal, middle of the road country, middle of the vote democrat. >> if you look it numbers, if you look at the way the democratic primaries are laying out righthe's going to win new hampshire and then you have the california primaries that are coming um. the on person that's going to have the money apparently to stay on the air is going to be bernie sanders.

if he wins iowa, new hampshire, california on supertoous will be 15, 16, 17, 20 ways without -- again, i'm just saying this, not giving my opinion on whether it's a good thing for a bad thing, but if joe biden's not in the race, then bernie sanders at least in my mind is better than each -- >> this could be a perfect replay of what happened in op in 2016. people kept saying just wait, just wait, drf and, joe, if democrats think that bernie sanders is going to get out of the race before the convention, even if there is somebody shiply

ahead of them. i would welcome somebody from the bernie sandler's campaign to sent me you l-- even if he only has 20% of the delegate, that could make bernie sanders a significant force. the way this story has the most ramifications is joe biden is the friendly -- why do you like joe biden? it's the fact that he connects with people. he comes across as warm and open. and if every single time he's thinking oh my gosh, i better

not cross this boundary. can you imagine what this would do as to the authenticity of hmm as a. >> eric: i think jood and when he sees people and he sees people, for example, who feel left out or a need, joe biden wants to be there. and i don't think he should change that connection that he has with people. obviously there are things he needs to watch out for. but i haven't heard anything that really indicates that this man is anything but very kind, connecting person. and a great candidate potentially for the democratic field, which to my point, joe, it seems to me on bernie sanders, nor thing to add on to casey's point, whe got ripped of

big time. that did not help the democrats, it did not help the democrats win the presidential election. i think they've hurt us in many ways. >> the early morning, the democratic party quickly moved it did not help bernie supporters will be angry, this right now is shaping up for donald trump because you have somebody who could be on the far, far left when 26, 27% of the vote goes up to 33% by end, that purr rahality def nats talk about being a socialist, whoever

it is, talk about being an extremist on identity issues and have suburban to but we can survive him for mour years. a lot more than woo and someone will say that's going to be my issue, too, at least three conservatives, a couple of fornler republican degreeing with drauk not to have the democrats open fire on eerp other at this it's interesting, if you say this to people that are a little further along,s that a different time, a dill jefr racial.

it kind of reminds me, wait a minute, he was on vice president, a coup of yearsing a. this is a guy we know. this is somebody who is vouched for by barack obama, which if that's not good enough for the democrat being party, then at that point there is no candidate who's going to be good enough for the democrats. brett, your point about this pure testify testing each other into oblivion in the age of donald trump is especially a kind of a bitter irony for the democratic party at this point. >> it is very hard to navigate. senator bernie sanders told nbc news over the weekend that he will release his taxes very, very shortly. but acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney says democrats will never see president trump's. last week the house ways and means committee asked the irs to turn over six years worth of the president's personal and

business tax returns, setting the deadline as this wednesday and mull veiny said that's not goi -- mull ve mulvaney said that' going to happen. >> that was litigated during the election. voters knew the president didn't turn over his tax returns and knew he never would and they elected him anyway. >> one of the president's attorneys, jay sekulow, said on a different show yesterday that this would never happen. what sort of recourse here do the democrats have to see these taxes? it seems like the white house is being clear, they said they're going to fight, they're willing

to go to court. what is next now? isn't the law on the democratic side? >> well, there's a legal dimension here and then a political dimention. legally it can be litigated. the congress can subpoena anyone's tax returns and see them in closed session. there's a question about whether they can actually then divulge that information. that may run into legal issues. but certainly in terms of seeing the tax returns in closed session, the congress issin titled to do that. now the political element is where the most say willing that eneed to see the tax returns to see what the president's interests are, does he have any interests that could potentially interfere with his ability to govern. so this is really quickly morphing i think into a

political foot. >> let talk about what happened over the weekend with kirstjen neej hept talking about. >> well, we heard about potentially shutting down the border, a tougher policy with respect to asylum. i would expect him to this gets back to discussion i think you were having in the previous hour about the politics of immigration for 2020. the president sees this issue as core to his brand, as core to his message, as core to

retaining that base of voters that got him ov the finish line in 2015. that's why it's important for him to continue -- the secretary wasn't able to advance policies and advance rhetoric in this regard. >> but you know, kasie hunt, it's meaningless, it all they not support foufr border policies. they're already in place now go back and look at all the quotes that john cornyn and lindsey

o'it what's the attitude of republicans on the hill now? >> the really on the wall -- as long as this president is in office, i don't see how our significant can't and immigration prop had been congress couldn't do this when they actually had a con is us about it and it was stopped largely by conservatives in the house. and nap it's snowballed and this president is returning to the themes, to the insinuations that quite frankly have very dark undertones at that the president

seems to know how to win. the the president spoke this weekend of course to a jewish republican group. and in doing it, he called benjamin netanyahu "your prime minister." hef hasnaacp or that benjamin netanyahu was your prime minister, which of course is the exact dual loyalty that everybody criticizing congresswoman omar for practicing. >> right. i mean, i'm jewish, i'm as pro israel as they come but i don't have a prime minister. i have a president, i have a

senator, a governor, a congressman and so on. this has happened before when he was running for office in 2016, he went before i think it was the same group, the r.j.c., and said i know i'm in a room full of good negotiators, one of the most -- the oldest anti-semitic trope. someone once said that a philo semite is an anti-semite who just happens to like zhus but uses precisely the same types of stereotypes against zhus but and it why i have consistently maintained that fen even on sm aspects of jerus policy, he's been very friendly to israel. i understand why a lo and this

goes to the language of efficiently media and resonance. it's why people like david duke keep cheering him on. >> you know, mika, it's interesting. of course you have to add the anti-semitic trope that donald trump pushed in the summer of 2016 in the middle of the campaign where he had a picture of hillary clinton with the star of david over it and suggesting that jew money was going to buy hilt hilt the presidency, just like the minority leader now of the house of representatives, kevin mccarthy, suggested that

and here's again the important thing to remember. outsize the media bubble, outside the perpetual noise machine that donald trump creates. let us not forget that he is losing jewish votes in record numbers. the 2016 race was bad enough for him. it gatt even worse fleeing the rab party expect those numbers to go even higher for democrats. >> all right. brett stn. still ahead, mayor pete

buttigieg gets personal. by sharing a story about his own sexualit sexuality. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. orning joe." we'll be right back. welcome to fowler, indiana. one of the windiest places in america. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here... the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed. or... not. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing. so let's promote our spring ftravel deals, on choicehotels.com like this: (sneezes) earn one free night when you stay just twice this spring. allergies. or.. badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com.

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people talk about things like marriage equality like a moral issue. it certainly like a moral issues as far as i'm concerned. being married has made me a better human being, more compassionate, more understanding, more self-aware and more decent. my marriage has made me a better man. and yes, mr. vice president, it has moved me closer to god. >> mayor pete buttigieg is

likely to join the presidential race this weekend. in new hampshire, he moved people in mobs. he shared a deeply personal story about coming to terms with his sexuality. >> when i was younger, i would have done anything to not be gay. when i began to halfway realize what it meant that i felt the way i did about people i saw in the hallway at school or dining hall in college, it launched in me something i can only describe as a kind of war. and if that war had been settled on the terms that i would have wished for when i was 15 or 20 or frankly even 25, i would not be standing here. if you had offered me a pill to make me straight, i would have swallowed it before you had time to give me a sip of water. it is a hard thing to think about now.

it's hard to face the truth that there were times in my life where if you had shown me exactly what it was inside me that made me gay, i would have cut it out with a knife. and the reason it's so awful to think about isn't just the knowledge that so many young people struggling to come to terms with their sexual or their gender identity do just that, they harm themselves, figuratively or literally, but the real reason it's so hard to think about is if i had had the chance to do that, i would have never found my way to chasten, that the best thing in my life, my marriage, might never have happened at all. >> joining us, josh letterman, who was on the campaign trail with buttigieg over the weekend. these deeply personal stories there,'s so many things about this candidate that i find surprising, refreshing and i think it gives me hope that

we're still a good country and we want good things for ourselves. what is the reaction that you've been seeing on the campaign trail? has he had any push back personally or politically? >> so far there hasn't been a lot of push back. look, he's in a democratic primary right now so probably these are not terribly controversial topics. his rallies and events are packed with larger and larger crowds. certainly yesterday diving into really uncharted territory for a presidential candidate to be talking about this. but one of the things that's so interesting about pete buttigieg is the way that he's able to frame these liberal policies that he supports within a conservative world view. and to even use the vocabulary of conservatives as far as freedom and liberty and family values in a way that doesn't seem contrived or forced. so when he's talking about security, he talks about his service in afghanistan, but he is also talking about security from what he calls violent white

nationalism. when he talks about gay marriage, he talks about his own marriage bringing him closer to god and if people like mike pence have a problem with it, they don't have a problem with him, they have a problem with god. so he may be able to take the fight to mike pence in a direct way that not a lot of other democrats are positioned to do. >> it's pretty incredible. kasie, it seems to me he's trying to put some things behind him as he moves forward and during this democratic primary process addressing, maybe not putting it away but addressing his sexuality. it's a good time and play to do that. i hear from a lot of people who are really interested in this candidate and they don't talk

about him being gay at all. it doesn't seem to come up really. >> it's remarkable, mika. he did an entire interview on "meet the press" yesterday, and the topic was not raised, which i think says as much about how quickly and how far we have come on this question in just a short amount of time. you know, it really is remarkable, especially considering the absolute, you know, difficulty that we are still having with embracing so many other minority groups. but, josh, one question for you and one thing i sort of noticed and you alluded to this, he seems to be trying to speak directly to religious voters in a way. i mean, is there any way in which that's something that actually could sway people, considering that he is anti-abortion? or is that issue going to be a

s sum. >> well, you're exactly right. he's certainly trying to talk in a way that religious voters can identify with some of the underlying values he is promoting. i think that strong religious views and are somewhat on the finance when whether they can support a democratic candidate, that may make a difference. but i think this end of the day are pretty much a litmus test. this weekend he was talking about freedom from the government telling women what to do with their bodies. that's going to be a bridge too far for them and for a certain segment of the population, they won't be able to get over the fact that at the end of the day he's a democrat and the policies he's supporting are pretty progressive. >> i still think he is the one

to watch. coming up, our next guest wants this many on the record now. cattic congressman taking on the gop over its lan to eliminate obamacare. that's next on "mornings joe." obamacare. that's next on "mornings joe." ♪ this is the family who booked the flight, who saved by adding a hotel, which led to new adventures, ♪ that captured their imaginations ♪

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and joining us for the first time since defeating republican ibt pe incumbent pete sessions, democrat uk congressman kcolin allred, president trump's very surprised decision to revisit,

revamp and eliminate health care has certainly opened a door for democrats. congressman? i don't think he can hear us, alex. we'll work on his audio. i'll jump in here with jonathan lemire. jonathan, as we wait for that technical fix, it does seem like the president has put republicans in a terrible position and now this congressman we're about to haea from is moving to condemn the president on this very decision. >> every republican effort prior to overhaul and replace the affordable care act has met can failure. the president has personalized that. he railed against obamacare, held a grudge even in death

against john mccain. >> amazing. >> there are many republicans who didn't want to see this fight now. he received a lot of pressure in the few days after the justice department decided to pick up this lawsuit and the president was suddenly out there branding the republican party as the party of health care again. a number of people, including senate majority mcconnell saying let's take it easy here and slow it down a little bit. the president has punted it at least for the time being but this is something that's going to come up again as 2020 nears. >> congressman, for some time and thank you so much for being with us. for some time people have been talking about -- democrats have been talking about the state of texas going purple and for that long republicans like myself have been very skeptical. but you winning in my friend pete sessions' district certainly sends a very strong message i think to both parties. i wonder is health care the

issue not only in your district but across the state in texas that actually helps democrats do just that in 2020? >> well, thanks so much for having me on, joe. sorry about the audio problems there. listen, i don't know what the political ramifications are, but i know this is the number one issue in my district and i think in districts similar to mine across the country. people are expecting us to work together to lower the cost of health care, see what we can do to expand coverage and the president is going out there trying to go around now the legislate of system, as you said, with senator mccain giving us a thumbs down and to try it use the courts i think it reopens the wound and says he's not on the side of the folks trying to tyke care of their family and get the health care they need. >> so you're new to congress, a new member representing your district. what are you hearing when you're going to town hall meetings? what are you hearing when you're back in the district grocery

shopping or going to walmart? what are your voters telling you about health care? what do they want? >> i think they're tired of us tearing it down and trying to not work to the and find ways to get things done. what they really want to us do is sit down and actually figure out how can we lower costs, expand coverage? i had a group of folks last week who had type one diabetes. we're talking about the cost of insulin. it's not a partisan issue, find ways to suit how. >> congressman, especially on health care, the president's been the gift that keeps on giving. he steps on his, law enforcement week after mueller news, he comes out and says i'm going to celebrate by going directly after health care. but you've also raised the point that democrats need to remain focused, something we've been talking about here this morning.

you've written democrats shouldn't allow themselves to be divided, that they shouldn't allow the president to put a wedge between them. what's your approach? what would be your advice within the democratic party for maintaining that kind of focus and for keeping an eye on the ball, as you go into 2020 as a party? >> well, i think the less on of 2018 and many of our races and i include the primaries across the country, is that when the state focused on these issues and focus on delivering real results, not just putting our goals out there, which is important, you need to talk about where you want to go and where you end up but you actually have to deliver results. how canny do that in the short t term to make people's lives better? it begins with prescription drugs. i think we can make some progress there that han been going on, increasing premiums and raising costs.

and what is nbs step from there? that's how we work our way towards all of our goals. >> congressman, i'm glad you raised prescription drugs. my question is you're right, the president wants to do certainso, we've seen republicans in the senate give indications they're willing to work on it. do you think house democratic leaders would be willing to go along with a plan to lower those prices, even if it means giving president trump something of a win? >> i do, i really do. this is something we're focused on. it's season i see this as a win for the american people. i certainly will be using my voice to make sure we don't let the politics creep into this. it's important we take steps now and show we can actually govern. >> congressman kol acolin allre

thanks for coming on the show and please come back. >>s been a decade republicans have been trying to kill prom -- president obama as health care plan, yet they never had an alternative. paul ryan never had a working alternative. mitch mcconnell still doesn't have a working alternative. they are the do-nothing party when it comes to the most and that's what's going to catch up with them in 2020. >> republicans and conservatives have their issues and that they find important but they have to embrace the fact that americans want their health care. >> republicans have to come

together then they can present to the american people in 2020, you can't beat something with nothing when it comes to america's health care. >> coming up, tina brown is happening when women stop leading like men. plus, actress kathy bates is testifying on capitol hill tomorrow on an important issue. before that, she joins us right here on "morning joe." she's ahead in our 8 a.m. hour.

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it's my favorite time of year and it's not because it's joe's birthday tomorrow, it's the women in the world summit kicks off this wednesday in new york. it is celebrating ten years of shaping opinions, setting agendas, and introducing the

world to the next generation of female leaders. joining us now ceo of tina brown live immediate area tina. a good one. so, tina, we have this great article that you wrote on women leaders, but give us a sense of what this year's live conference is focused on this year. >> it's women save the world. we just feel this is the moment to ask that question when assailed by moment by moment of trump's tweets. women have to step in and say enough, time-out, times up. we have this summit which has some stunning women coming. we have oprah. we have anna winter storm.

cindy mccain. ashley judd. it will be a lot of fascinating and great women who are taking risks and standing up for third sisters. women from saudi who are protesting the appalling imprisonment of the saudi women activist and women from uganda who are trying to -- who are women who are standing up for same-sex love in a country in which it's banned and these two women who we have are lovers and have been together all this time despite the fact that their country actually outlaws them and evicts them if they are cut. >> you wrote last week for the "new york times" an op-ed what happens when women stop leading like men. why in the world would any woman want to lead like a man anyway >> women have tried to do that. we've seen a generation of women leaders trying to remake themselves in that male mold. and now we're seeing a

generation, a new generation of leaders who are not doing that. you're seeing it in the 42 women who came into congress. you saw it in laurie lightfoot the other day winning as mayor of chicago. first black woman, gay woman to win in chicago like that. we really are seeing a different mold of woman who is basically owning the fact they are different. we are not trying to cram themselves into that old, you know, suit that men were wearing. they are saying no we're going to lead in a different way. some of that is about showing their feminine sort of values. look at nancy pelosi. she's almost like a mother hen the way she assembles that brood of her kids. >> a number of women running for president. how are you seeing them pitch their vision, whether it's senator warren or kirsten gillebrand or kamala harris.

how are you seeing them make their case why they should be leader of the free world. >> well, for a start, hillary said to me it's easy power to the four women running they are not the only women. they don't have to take the entire gender on their shoulders. they are four women with different styles. what i see amongst them is that they are just running in very different ways. elizabeth warren and her cardigan and loose style. you know, this kamala harris that has a hip vibe, amy klobuchar who plays it straight up but much more kind of a chief executive type. there's kirsten gillebrand who is saying i'm running on the women's platform. it's all very different. they don't feel a need to get themselves into an old-fashioned, you know, this is what a leader looks like mode. >> all right. tina brown, thank you. the 10th annual women in the

world summit kicks off this wednesday at lincoln center in new york city. always amazing. tina, thank you. still ahead a major shake up in the trump administration. this time it's homeland security secretary kirstjen nielsen. she's announced she's resigning days after visiting the southern border with the president, and she not giving much time for a transition. plus congresswoman ilhan omar gets criticized by president trump one day after one of his supporters was charged for threatening to kill her. those stories are ahead on "morning joe".

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>> does it differ from the case you put your dogs in when you let them stay outside? is it different? >> yes. >> in what sense. >> it's larger. it has facilities. it provides room to sit, stand, lay down. >> the person who oversaw the seizing of children wasn't tough enough for the president. good morning and welcome to "morning joe". it is monday, april 8th. with us we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lameer. national security expert columnist at "usa today" and author of the book "the death of expertise" tom nickles is with us. co-founder of axios jim van dehide. and notion correspondent for pbs news hour is back with us. kirstjen nielsen is out. >> she is out. i got to say before we even start, there are people gathering in times square

looking up at the ticker tape there. the ticker to see, jonathan lameer, the story has begun. like when john glenn was orbiting the earth and people were there, everybody standing there, rapturously looking up at the number one. the longest hot streak. >> the longest journey begins with a solitary step in the arizona desert, joe. and a victory with a minor leaguer on the mound yesterday, the 1-0 win that perhaps sends us in the right direction going forward. >> look, there it is. look at that. that '70 song "ain't no stopping us now." we're on the move. we're on the move. ladies and gentlemen, your boston red sox. >> tomorrow they will raise the banner and let's hope they don't get booed. >> tomorrow is their first game

home. that's where they get their rings. half the team already have hocked them. mika, it's going to be a sort of a strange welcome back to fenway, but we're glad they are finally -- >> strange over to the show since only two people know what you're talk about. that's you and jonathan lameer. thanks for that. okay. there is a week's worth of big stories already breaking on this monday morning. president trump calls benjamin netanyahu your prime minister while speaking to an american jewish group. >> you know what? politicians preaching dual loyalty makes me sad. >> i wonder if kevin mccarthy is just as outraged as he was over ilhan omar. >> robert mueller, the guy that, obviously, the president attacked but then after barr's letter came out he said he had done an honorable job as special counsel. >> you're my friend, you're not

my friend, you're my friend. he's under attack yet again on the president's twitter feed. he's gone back to not being a friend. to exonerated people lash out like this? i wonder. >> this is how guilty people look like. >> tons of 2020 news over the weekend including cory booker's fundraising numbers, joe biden's handseling of the headlines right now. so we'll get to all of that. >> let's start, mika w-the abrupt exit of homeland security chief kirstjen nielsen. >> yeah. interesting. late last night kirstjen nielsen tweeted i have agreed to stay on as secretary through wednesday, app -- april 10th. >> she gave him a two day notice. >> that's not agreeing to staying on. that's agreeing to leave. when you agree to stay on it's two weeks, two months, six month, you're helping out with the transition. this is you're out of here or i'm out of here. i wonder which one it was. she says she's going to assist with an orderly transition in

two days. and ensure that key dhs missions are not impacted. president trump asked for her resignation at the white house on sunday evening. just 48 hours after kirstjen nielsen join him for a visit to the border. officials told the washington host that a sign of discord came on friday when the white house yanked the senate nomination of a long time federal immigration official, to lead customers enforcement after santa fe convenient miller lobbied to cut him loose. on his way to the border friday trump spoke about the decision to shake up his immigration enforcement team. >> we're going in a different direction. ron is a good man. but we're going in a tougher direction. we want to going a tougher direction. >> so, jonathan lameer, just for everybody trying to figure this

out. you hear about how harsh the president's border policies have been. you hear about how harsh kirstjen nielsen's border policies have been. that she's been trying to enact for the president of the united states. explain how -- while the president says he can shoot somebody on fifth avenue and get away with it and there are vile indications he can, there is a greater concern for him and that is having to run in 2020 with democrats saying, you know what, donald, when barack obama left office border crossings were at a 50 year low. since you've gotten in there the only thing your harsh policies have done is stir up a panic, bring people across the border and they've skyrocketed since you entered the office. >> now what we've seen here -- let's remember the origin of

this department homeland security. it was founded after 9/11 with its focus on terror threats. this move here shows where the priorities are for this administration and that's these border crossings. it's the idea of immigration. the nature of these immigrants coming over the southern border has changed. fewer single men, laborers, more families and causing more clogged conditions in the facilities at the border to be sure. but this is also -- this is a president -- let's keep this in mind. he and kirstjen nielsen never quite got along. john kelley was her rabbi. she has ties to bush family. in recent weeks and months as the numbers have grown and immigrants crossing have grown he's grown more frustrated. steven miller, his influence has only grown. jared kushner as well on the issue of immigration. felt like kirstjen nielsen was moving too slow including implementing the family

separation order. she wasn't implementing the same toughness. like you made from that same clip head of i.c.e. is on his way out. he blamed her. wants to make this still the central issue that he runs on again for 2020. so this is at the forefront of his mind. she went into the white house last night with a resignation letter in hand unsure whether she would be resigning or be fired. she was made to resign. she leaves with this. she oversaw the family separation policy which prompted protest and had pictures of children in case. at the end of the day the administration felt that policy was not extreme enough or hard enough and they will try to take it further in the days and weeks ahead. >> president trump spent most of the weekend trying to get a handle on his border policy. saturday night he tweeted quote, we have redeployed 750 agents at the southern border specific ports of entry in order to help with the large scale surge of

illegal migrants trying to make their way into the united states. and a reference to those seek asylum this will cause traffic and commercial delays. the president is frustrated by beefing up resources at the ports adding until mexico cleans up this ridiculous and massive migration we'll be focusing on border security not ports of entry. in public appearances evented his desire to change the laws. >> now, congress has to act. they have to get rid of catch and release, chain migration, visa lottery. they have to get rid of the whole asylum system because it doesn't work. and, frankly, we should get rid of judges. you can't have a court case every time somebody steps their foot on our grounds. >> we've had some very bad court decisions. the flores decision is a disaster.

i have to tell you. judge flores, whoever it may be, that decision is a disaster for our country. >> i know that doesn't sound like a wasp's name, donald maybe that's why you talked about judge flores but there's no judge flores. in fact, that decision you were talking about, donald, that bars the federal government from detaining minors for more than 20 days, the settlement of that case known as the flores case, wasn't named after a judge that you're suspicious of. because their last name wasn't smith or jones. it was named after jenny flores a 15-year-old migrant from el salvador. and jim, comment on this politically. again the president concerned going into the election. he doesn't have a wall plus he has all of these migrants coming

up to the border, trying to cross the border. on top of that as far as his policies democrats with attack his policies as well because he wants to stop aid going to el salvador and other country that would do a better job of keeping those migrants at home. >> politically he's calculating that immigration will be a winner again. you won't get a softer line. you'll get someone running homeland security who takes a much harder line than somebody who already had a pretty hard-line. the president wants somebody who will really stretch what legal authority they actually have and push, i think, ultimately shut down the border. even obama administration officials said we have a problem at the border. so many people that are coming here are coming from el salvador, guatemala, honduras,

trying to seek asylum because they are fleeing instability, gangs, bad places to live. so just beefing up security at the border won't necessarily fix that problem in the short term. the bigger problem people should pay attention to, you have this pattern where everybody leaves this white house bitter. especially in these national security positions. where that matters is it just makes it so much harder to find somebody who will then come in and be the secretary of defense. somebody who really wants to be a full-time chief of staff. somebody who wants to come in and truly run the department of homeland security because in areas that the president cares about he's going to intervene and want you to do thing that are above and beyond what current law, certainly current precedent might allow to you do. that's a jam. because at some point, we've been talking about this for some time, something bad will happen and you do want good people in the right positions to make good decisions based on what is doable and what is not. little by little that's getting

harder. still ahead on "morning joe" president trump sees congresswoman ilhan omar as a political target. one of his deranged supporter sees her as a real target. the minnesota democrat faced with a death threat while president trump continues his rhetorical attacks her. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. ng joe". we'll be right back. you can do this!

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special thanks to representative omar of minnesota. oh. oh. oh, i forgot. she doesn't like israel. i forgot. i'm so sorry. >> those sarcastic comments from president trump about ilhan omar in front of a conservative jewish group an saturday came

less than a day after a new york man of charged with threatening her life. the man ever charged with threatening to assault and murder a united states official for a phoned threat he allegedly made last month. he told investigators that he was a patriot, that he loves the president, and that he hates radical muslims in our government. this is according to the fbi affidavit. congresswoman omar responded to both trump's attack as well as the death threat leveled against her with a bilingual threat. my lord forgive my people for they do not know. meanwhile in that same speech trump implied dual loyalty by american jews to israel, which is incidentally the same anti-semitic trope for which congresswoman omar has been criticized. >> i stood with prime minister netanyahu, benjamin netanyahu --

[ applause ] i stood with your prime minister at the white house to recognize israeli sovereignty over the golan heights. [ cheers and applause ] the golan heights is something i've been hearing about for a long time. >> in response the american jewish committee tweeted quote, mr. president, the prime minister of israel is the leader of his or her country, not ours. statements to the contrary from staunch friends or harsh critics feed bigotry. joe, i get scared watching this. it just seems so beyond just far from who we are. >> well, listen, like he was mr. magoo up there. >> thinks he's a comedian, i think. >> no. when he says your prime minister, he's being bigoted. that is, again, the president who actually reveals himself to believe that jews in america

have dual loyalty and if you're a jew the united states of america, that your prime minister must be benjamin netanyahu. that is wildly offensive. and, again, it is the same sort of anti-semitic trope that many republicans were attacking congresswoman omar for, and tom nichols, feel free to talk about that but also here's another example of the president of the united states inspiring his supporters to threaten politicians, to threaten members of the press, to threaten people on the president's enemies list. and yet he never can bring himself to come out and actually condemn those threats and in this case he doubled down, attacking the congresswoman who this man said was going to put a bullet in her head, attacking

this congresswoman the next day in public. >> doubling down is the president's core skill set. it's what he does. it's one of the things he's best at. you know, there are a lot of people out there who are european hin unhinged to make threats. but a pattern is emerging. instead of it being onesies and twossies and a loned wolf. you're getting a rash of these incidents with people using the same kind of language. and i think, you know, i'm always uncomfortable every drawing direct lines to politicians or their speeches but it's fair to say the president is not doing anything to turn the temperature down on this. i mean right after somebody has been threatened you might want to let that joke go that day. i just might want to take a pass on that one and say today we won't do the ilhan omar joke

after something serious like that. because, again, the president doesn't treat politics like a serious business. like a serious grave matter. he treats it like an ongoing kind of reality television show. i know that's a trope we said. for him it boils down to what's working right now at the moment. >> the problem, mika, is that this president, time and time again inspires people to make death threats, to actually -- the lieutenant out of maryland who actually had a kill list and was planning the assassination not only of members of the media but members of the democratic leadership and democrats that were on the campaign trail planning to run against donald trump. he could not bring himself to condemn that person who was

attempting a wide scale assassination plot. >> chime in if you can on the impact of these hateful rifts because the president is rifting. he flies by the seat of his pants and just goes on stage. in my opinion, he's playing with fire. and, you know, every time he opens his mouth i feel like he takes this country down a peg. >> yeah. mika, you and i both know, everyone speaking here this morning know words have consequences. doesn't seem to have resonated with the president. the real danger here, of course, is that one of these threats actually ends up coming true. i mean we have to remember the backdrop across which we're having this conversation is at a time of rising islamaphobia and

supporting white extremist groups. we have to draw a set of line to one set actions all of these things have been unfolding and growing steadily over the last several years. this administration has done less to condemn it. coming up on "morning joe" she may be leaving government but kirstjen nielsen will forever own the child separation policy. we're going to bring in one of the fir reporters to expose the caging of kids along the southern border. "morning joe" is back in a moment. "morning joe" is back ina moment at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected with retirement planning and advice for what you need today and tomorrow. because when you're with fidelity, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. because when you're with fidelity, touch shows how we really feel. but does psoriasis ever get in the way?

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president trump visited replacement fencing at the u.s.-mexico border and described it like this. >> if you want to climb that, use whatever you can get but it's very, very hard. it's called anti-climb. >> yeah. somehow i don't think it's called anti-climb. we started with a wall that was climbed.

then we took away the handy holds and the footsie holds and now it's anti-climb. >> joining us now msnbc correspondent jacob soboroff. jonathan lameer and kasie hunt are with us. your thoughts on the departure of kirstjen nielsen, the dynamics around it and her statement which is that she's allowing two days for a proper transition. what is that telling us? >> just a couple of days. the bottom line is kirstjen nielsen is, was, will always be the face of donald trump's family separation policy full stop. that's despite the fact that she denied its existence after carrying it out. she's the one that let me in to go see those children. her people, her team in the case on the floor, under the my lar blankets. she continued to say it didn't

happen even though we all know and i saw with my own eyes that did it. it is still kwon going. on friday night in a court filing the trump administration said it could take up to two years to identify and reunite all children that were separated including children from before the zero tolerance period. even though kirstjen nielsen is out this disaster, manmade disaster that happened under her watch is still unfolding. one thing i want to say because i spent one-on-one time with kirstjen nielsen. she never let the facts or underlying data get in the way of an extreme the drugs policy including the wall and denying stuff like dea statistics that is out there for everybody to see. i want to show everybody a clip. >> mexico is extraordinarily violent, but if you talk to people in san diego or talk to people in el paso across from these dangerous places they will tell you the violence isn't coming across the border. it's staying in mexico. >> we're seeing increase in

violence every day. smugglers, traffickers. that's a crisis. >> dea in 2017 national report said and i'm quoting while drug related murders have reached epidemic proportions in mexico in recent years this is a phenomenon that has not translated over to spill over violence into the u.s. do you think it has >> absolutely. >> the dea doesn't say that. from our agents down, there i can tell you from talking to the governors who call very concerned, absolutely the violence is going up. so, jacob, kirstjen nielsen, obviously, seems a hard-liner that was willing to carry out donald trump's policies along the border, but donald trump thought that she was actually not tough enough and now is promising an even tougher policy. so what does that look like? based on all of your reporting, everything you've seen, what does a quote tougher policy on

the border look like in the future? >> we're talking about the man standing to her right, kevin mcaleenan, the current commissioner of customs and border protection. ultimately the underlying policy goal is the same. whether it's kirstjen nielsen or kevin mcaleenan or whom ever gets into that seat as secretary of department of homeland security. that's two things. they feel like by deterrent, a deterrence policy which we know by the way never works we can indefinitely detain families that come to the border in order to scare people from coming. and also turn around unaccompanied, undocumented migrant children and send them back to their home countries immediately. those are both policies that they wanted to get implemented by congress during the separation period. >> right. >> it's what they want to happen now. and regardless of who the face of it is, that's what they are driving towards and kevin mcaleenan will be no different in that regard.

>> jacob, you're exactly right. ate losing proposition. the reason why a lot of immigrants started going back to mexico and we're not being flood by illegal immigrants from mexico any more is because the mexican economy is doing well. but donald trump is talking about cutting aid too many of these countries that are actually affected the most. >> it's a great point. kevin mcaleenan for the record has been very outspoken in favor of aid going to northern triangle countries. when you talk to folks in cdp, many have been career officials. kevin mcaleenan was in the obama administration as well. they will tell you there are results tied to foreign aid, the exact type much aid president trump wants to cut from those countries. in el sal ra door where the majority of migrants used to come from, between short two year period they dropped 50,000 migrants coming to the united states after receiving foreign aid from this country. so, again, the question is allow

does kevin mcaleenan do this? how long will he be there in this interim period? at the end of the day it's these same policies designed in deterring people from coming because president trump doesn't want to go to those countries and help. >> policies that don't work, we can see that when barack obama left the white house, illegal crossings were down. a 15 year low. they are starting to explode now. you really get the sense of panic setting in with donald trump and the administration. kirstjen nielsen fired. scapegoated. report that steven miller is calling around other department heads and calling around members of the bureaucracy and indignant, yelling orders at them. it seems to be a lot like health care. a lot easier to talk about on the campaign trail, nobody ever told donald trump that border policy was this difficult.

>> right. steven miller is the architect of a lot of the president's immigration believes. his power has increased. his frustration level too. they are trying, again, to make this a signature issue going into 2020 and they see crossing numbers have gone up and something that they clearly held secretary kirstjen nielsen responsible for. i was struck on friday by the president's rhetoric about asylum seekers in particular suggesting that people were coming up from these countries with made up stories as to why they needed to leave, why they needed to come to the united states. he kept using the word hoax and made the comparison. i know a lot about hoaxes, making reference to the mueller investigation. but my question for you jacob, the difference on asylum is one things that drew a wedge between the president and secretary kirstjen nielsen. how do you anticipate her successor dealing with that issue going forward. >> it's the same underlying goal to turn these folks around.

not allow the home seek asylum in the first place. to the point you're making about fraudulent family units, what the president is calling hoaxs, there's a technical term for it. called fraud len family units. they don't have the underlying data to support of keeping people out based on that argument. the white house tweeted out themselves there's 538 fraudulent family units in the last two months of the previous year. if you look at the overall number of people coming in to this country that's less than 1% of people that they are trying to base an enormous policy that would change the face of american asylum and refugee policy going forward in perpetuity. they don't have the data to support it. they have to come up with another way. they need president trump to come out there and talk nonsense about it. >> jacob soboroff, thank you very much for coming on to talk today. we'll have you back for sure. up next, academy award

winner cathy bates will join us. as we go to break we want to mention the ongoing work at know your value.com. we dig in every day on the challenges women face in understanding and owning what we bring to table and how to communicate it effectively, personally and professionally. after all the obstacles are real. did you know that there are more fortune 500 ceos named johnathan there are women ceos completely. it's crazy. women hold just 12% of board seats. we need to change that. >> in 2019? >> 15% of the 3,000 largest companies in america still have no female board members. that's just one of the reasons why i'm thrilled to be hosting the inaugural ascend summit on may 10th in new york city. i'll be speaking with many

folks. i hope you join me on may 10th for this unparalleled conversation about how we're going to get more women into the board of directors and leadership positions every where. to learn all about this event and to get tickets go to know your value.comer and "morning joe" is back in a moment with kathy bates. kathy bates. every day, visionaries are creating the future.

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now to an issue that affects over 10 million people in the u.s. and an estimated 250 million worldwide. lymphedema is an incurrable lymphatic disease. joining us now kathy bates. she's a two-time cancer survivor. and spokesperson for the

radiation and research network and will be testifying on capitol hill tomorrow about this issue. thank you very much for being on the show. so let's talk about lymphedema. who does it exact? >> i developed it after breast cancer about seven years ago and i had a double mastectomy. i'm grateful to my doctors for saving my life. unfortunately they found it necessary to remove 19 lymph nodes from my left armpit and three from the right. shortly after that my arms began to swell and there was pain and loss of mobility and it was difficult to live with. for example, i couldn't wear women's blouses any more. i had to wear men's shirts. i found a doctor out there to give me manual lymph drainage

and put me in a pump. i wear compression sleeves, you can see under my jacket here in order to keep the swelling down. >> despite the fact that this affects so many people and it impacts their lives so greatly, i understand that there just really isn't research money dedicated to it in washington or elsewhere. why is that? >> well, here's the other problem that we're having is that doctors in four years of medical cool only spend 15 to 30 minutes on the entire lymphatic system. as a suddenly, lymphedema isn't on state licensing exams. so if i have a pain and guy to my gp they don't know what is it. they send me away. tell me to eat more salads. they are not educated.

unfortunately the disease is progressive and i knew someone who had it and the last stages and his arm was like wood. >> kasie hunt has a question. >> you're going to testify before congress tomorrow. what do you need from them to help solve this problem? >> well, first i want them to learn about lymphedema and what it is and that doctors need to be educated and the public needs to be educated. i really want to ask them for research money from the nih and from the cdc. this is a huge field. it isn't just about lymphedema or lymphatic diseases that can be congenital but most people suffer after having cancer surgery. but it's about raising money for research because there's -- we think there's a whole host of diseases that can be -- the

secrets can be uncovered. for example, at the university of virginia they discovered that the lymph system goes up in the brain and they think that this will have implications for multiple sclerosis and alzheimer's. we need the research funds to do that. >> a question for you about the network that you're attached to in trying to spread awareness here. how else beyond your appearance tomorrow, what are other things you're trying to do spread awareness of this condition. you mentioned some of these medical breakthroughs. if you are to receive some budgetary goals you want, what are goals you can get? >> we want, for example, to have the cdc put us up on their website. we want to educate the public. for us it's been a real grassroots movement up until now. we have the lymphedema tra arcat

act that we hope will be passed by congress. after talking to the committee members, it's a huge opportunity for us to educate them from the be problem. and it's wonderful. it will be wonderful. been my goal since i became the national spokesperson four years ago. i said i want to get to the doctors and i do want to testify before congress. so this has been a real dream for me. >> kathy bates, thank you very much. we'll be following this issue and your testimony closely. it's great to have you on the show. >> thank you very much. thank you. coming up, we always love it when our next guest joins us. acclaimed author and officer henry louis gates jr. joins us with his new incredible project. keep it right here on "morning joe". keep it right here on "morning joe" ♪

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which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ tuesday, november 3rd, 1868 was an election day unlike any other. south carolina and seven other confederate states had re-entered the union in time for the election. but white gangs terrorized black voters in new orleans, and republicans in georgia and louisiana had to abandon campaigning all together. >> african-americans had to arm themselves. they had to go to the poles in large numbers. in some cases african-americans have to gather together the night before an election. they sleep out in the woods and

they try to figure out when to go to the poles when there will be the fewest whites at the poles so they'll actually be able to deposit their ballots. >> nothing could staunch the time. remarkably, half a million black men cast their votes. a look at the events surrounding america's first presidential election following the conclusion of the civil war which is part of the new four-hour pbs documentary series entitled "reconstruction: america after the civil war." joining us now, one of the film's executive producers and host, henry lewis gates jr. he's also author of the new book "stoney the road: reconstruction, white supremacy and the rise of jim crowe "and dark sky rising: reconstruction and the dawn of jim crow".

>> professor, you've been very busy, a lot of projects before you, but i am so excited about your projects on reconstruction because it is one of the least understood parts of american history. it was an exhilarating time, yes, right after the war but soon became a terrifying time. explain why you got involved in this project. >> well, did you study reconstruction when you were in school? >> not enough. >> no. we somehow cut to martin luther king and the civil rights movement. if lincoln freed the slaves, why do we need a civil rights movement? what has happened set the history of reconstruction, the glorious period of america's second founding. remember lincoln's phrase the new birth of freedom. this glorious period between 1865 and 1877 has been lost to

many of our history books. during that time, 16 black men were elected to the congress including two united states senators. black people got the -- black men got the right to vote. in the summer of 1867 which i call freedom summer, 80.5% of the freed slaves registered to vote in 10 of 11 confederate states. think about that. in 1868 they cast 500,000 votes for ulyssewe lis ees s. grant. effectively black men elected the president of the united states. during this time we have birth right citizenship. we got equal protection under the law regardless of race, and black men got the right to vote. but after 1877, a wave of white supremacy rose to crush the movement.

so by 1901, the last reconstruction congressman bid farewell to the united states congress. >> it's interesting you bring up ewe lis ees s. grant. i've been reading books on biographies my entire life. it wasn't until i read the book on grant that i understood that halfway through grant's term he started to pull away from being a reformer on reconstruction. from that point on, all of the work of lincoln, all of the work of the reformers, all of the work of those black men that you were talking about that so courageously went out to vote to change their country, it all dissipated. >> it all dissipated. it's a myth to think that it was only the south rising again. you're absolutely right. it was a confluence of events. the north and the south grew weary of reconstruction.

grant initially suppressed the ku klux klan. remember the 13th amendment that abolished slavery is ratified in 1865, about the same time that the klan is born. grant suppresses the klan in the early years of his administration. but after his re-election and the panic of 1873 which is officially called the great depression, interest in the north grew weary as well. do we really need to commit all these resources for these former slaves. didn't we free them? they should be on their own. can't they stand on their own two feet. starting in 1890, the former confederate states started constitutional conventions that suppressed the black vote. i'll give you a dramatic example. in 1898 there were 130,000 black men registered to vote in louisiana. by 1904 that number had been

reduced to 1,342. think about that. >> that happened in large part because the terror campaigns, because of the klan, because governments weren't doing their jobs? is this what we're going to also read about in "stoney the road"? >> yes, vabsolutely. voter suppression and the supreme court in 1883 declared it unconstitutional. 12 years of black freedom followed by a rollback and a president who refused to renounce white supremacy, andrew johnson. does this sound familiar? >> i was going to bring up that moment. what parallels do you see to today's climate where we're seeing white supremacy. those numbers are rising according to statistics. what roles did the election of barack obama play to this and

then now, is president trump stoking those fears and that violence? >> it's the perfect parallel. the reason that dylan mcgee and i decided to do this series now was because eight years of black freedom as it were under barack obama basically drove a lot of people crazy. we saw this rise of white supremacy that i don't know about you but i thought had been long buried. this is like a bad dracula movie. you thought, damn, aren't you dead? didn't we put a stake in your heart? and then it comes back. so the closest historical parallel to what we're seeing today with the rise of white supremacy is a backlash to the obama administration is the collapse of reconstruction. that's why i wrote the book and why we did this series. >> professor, let me ask you, are you a bit more hopeful though where we are today, the results of 2018, the demographic changes that are happening in

this country? do you see the rise of donald trump and these forces that we're so concerned about, do you see that more as a death rattle as perhaps white supremacists' last stand before the new -- we called it the obama coalition, the obama majority, before that really is felt in america in a permanent way? >> well, if we had lost the house in the last election, i would really be worried, but fortunately we didn't. now we have checks and balances. but, i'm still worried about a very conservative supreme court. think about affirmative action is under attack, the right of a woman to have an abortion is under attack. the lesson of reconstruction is that things, values, principles that we think are permanent actually are quite fragile.

i want to trumpet the fact that the black community was alive with participation in the electoral process two years after the abolition of slavery to regenerate the desire to vote and to participate in the next election within the african-american and by extension throughout the other minority communities in the united states. casting a vote is the real black power and that's what can make a difference. >> the first two hours of the new pbs documentary, "reconstruction: america after the civil war" premieres tomorrow night. henry lewis gates jr., thank you very much. >> thank you so much, professor. >> his book, "stoney the road" and "dark sky rising: reconstruction in the dawn of jim crow" available now. and that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika, thanks,