today but all three markets, that's the day weer looking at. i'm going to see you back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern and 3:00 p.m. eastern. you can always find me on social media. thank you for watching, "deadline: white house" with nicole wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the new york with news breaking this afternoon that donald trump fired his secret service director, there are questions today about the fate of high level firings and what's behind them. secret service director, randolph alice, who was appointed two years ago is the second person fired by donald trump in less than 24 hours. an administration official telling nbc news the firing was not on any single event. this ouster comes one day after homeland security secretary kirstjen nielsen resigned under pressure from the president over

months of tension over policy at the border. and friday trump asked his i.c.e. nominee to step aside saying he wanted to move in a tougher direction. new reporting in the "new york times" be reports how the sidelines were connected. all were viewed as allies of john kelly, the president's former chief of staff who left late last year after tension with mr. trump. the departure appear to be a house cleaning of officials involved in the administration's immigration agenda as the president demands a harder line on border security. right now, the agency is being run by a growing number of acting officials not confirmed by the senate. at this hour there's no confirmed secret of homeland security, no confirmed deputy secretary, no confirmed head of fema, i.c.e., inspector general, and as of wednesday customs and border patrol will no longer

have a confirmed commissioner. and one cannot separate the president's apparent state of chaos and his fixation on the southern border from the looming reality that robert mueller's report will be released in the coming days. trump firing off 11 tweets since friday attacking robert mueller's investigators and the findings their report might reveal. that's where we start today with our favorite reporters and friends, jonathan lemire at the table. matt miller. political reporter, heidi prez bella. frank few gu see. and julia ainsley. julia, i'll start with you. this is a lot of chaos even for a chaos president and these are at agencies where life and death decisions are made. what is going on?

>> that's a good question, nicole. it seems at this point the president kind of reached a breaking point. we noticed the numbers of families crossing the border increased around january, his b blood pressure started to build and he started to look for tough answers, what he did last summer by separating families at the border, it seems we've been told by a senior administration official the president thinks that's his best tool yet deterring asylum seekers to he wants to bring back a version of that. we know the secretary pushed back a version of that, saying it would go against his own executive order. the courts had ordered the unity of those families so you couldn't separate new ones. we're told the two did not agree

and that led yesterday to her forced resignation. >> frank, it would seem that part of the problem the president is answering the wrong question, trying to diagnose what is for him -- i think he's unelectable if illegal immigration goes up while donald trump is president. he ran on that one issue. the fundamental problem he has that anyone that looked at immigration knows it's a comprehensive solution that stops illegal immigration into this country. looking at this from a law enforcement perspective, how far do you think he'll go down this -- it's really a fool's errand to try to get harder and harder and think that's going to solve the problem. >> so much inherent in these decisions in the last 24, 48 hours. so first of all, it appears that anyone who wants to tell the emperor that he has no clothes is going to get ousted. the emperor doesn't want to hear

he has no clothes. we're hearing that secretary kirstjen nielsen was pointing out there are policy implications and you'd be overriding your own executive order. he doesn't want to hear it. secret service similarly, we have the incident at mt of the secret service but rather part of the trump posture on security. and a weekend manager at a resort deciding who gets in. yet we see the secret service director out. we know they're stretched very, very thinly. there's resource issues. so my advice to the next candidate for secret service director, ask am i going to be in charge of security or are you? secondly, am i going to get the resources i need to protect the nation's security by protecting you? we need to stick with that. with regard to where the immigration issue is going, look, if he's kicking people out, nicole, who are pointing out law and policy and he

doesn't like that pointed out, then we're left to conclude that the next people coming down the pipeline are people who have a similar disregard as he does for law and policy. and that worries me deeply. >> matt miller i follow you on twitter closely enough to know that one of the things that triggers you is this idea she was some sort of figure who spoke truth to power. she was frantically trying to appease the president who was constantly pushing the envelope on more inhumane immigration policies. policies so far outside the main stream of even right wing immigration policies and politics. >> i see this idea she's being pushed out as the i.c.e. director nominee because the president wants to go in a tougher direction. it has nothing to do with tough. kirstjen nielsen was willing to be so tough can, quote/unquote tough, she's willing to dishonor herself, look at the separating families at the border, lying to

congress about it, tear gassing families asking for asylum. she has been tough enough by donald trump's stretch of the word. what she wasn't willing to do is defy the law. i think her resignation or firing looks like jeff sessions' firing he was willing to do everything the president asked but couldn't break the law for him. he couldn't blatantly violate doj regulations for him. and that's a lesson for everyone in the white house. you can do a number of things, you can dishonor yourself, trash your reputation for the rest of your life, compromise your integrity but that won't be enough if donald trump asks you to break the law for him, defy court orders, do what you can't do as a government official. if you say no you find yourself out anyway, fired and humiliated. you're better off to choose the right course of action from the beginning and not caring what he's going to do to you.

>> you know, it is this sort of al ma ga mags of high level firings, sort of the state that steve bannon talked about wanting to take apart being taken apart through firings or resignations. but also i'm reminded for one of the candidates of chief of staff in the pre-mulvaney post-kelly a era. one area was a defense council would be funded for whatever area they served. at least the candidates going in view it as a potentially criminal undertaking. >> that is a part of it here. let's remember also the white house declared a national emergency at the border. we now have an acting director of homeland security. he was elected on this in 2016, he wants to do so again in 2020 and he is frustrated by the numbers going up. to matt's point, yes, part of this -- >> that's because his policies don't work. >> that's right.

>> who does he blame? >> he's certainly not blaming himself. blaming other governments suggesting mexico should do more, the northern triangle countries should be doing more. at the same time he's threatening to cut off aid to the countries which all experts say would be counter productive. he's frustrated with the staff around him and yes, kirstjen nielsen pushed back saying there was legal ramifications. she was willing to be tough, he wanted to be tougher. there's the growing influence of stephen miller behind the scenes, which is much of trump's rhetoric and policy and he wants more from that and wants to hand pick successors. let's remember, big picture we have to step back. kirstjen nielsen's legacy here is going to be those images of the children in the cages, the families separated at the border but that wasn't enough for president donald trump. >> what is the next -- what is stephen -- i guess i have a hard time fathoming, who restrained stephen millmiller?

who's the guardrail for him? children are separated from parents and put in cages. >> miller thinks it needs to go further. >> what's further than jailed babies? >> i think there's times other members of the administration has try to slow him down. the president has -- the two of them has a sort of mind meld on immigration issues. despite policies that anyone would suggest were very hard line, have yet to produce the desired results. if illegal immigration continues to go up, the crossings continue to rise, it takes away a significant plank of what donald trump would try to make his reelection case upon. >> heidi, what has people more alarmed on capitol hill today, the idea that donald trump's immigration platform is about to get more extreme than jailed infants or the idea that half of the homeland security and

government posts are now filled by acting officials? i think we have a list of the acting officials in donald trump's cabinet right now. which is sort of the cause for more alarm today? >> i would say that members of congress see a connection between the two in that the purge going on, if you want to use that word, at the department of homeland security and related agencies is a reflection of the president's frustration that his hard line policies have not produced the desired effect. in fact, they may be making the problem worse. there is reporting, nicole, that some smugglers, for instance, are telling individuals from the central american countries that now is the time to get across the border before things get worse in terms of the president's crackdown on this type of asylum seeking. so there's a concern that there is a connection there, and there's a concern of what this portends, though, nicole because what could be much worse than

putting babies in cages? well, be returning to doing that, right? and the concern on capitol hill is that we've seen this president in so many different instances dare congress to put a check on him and congress fails to do that, whether it pertains to the shutdown or declaring the national emergency leaving all of these agencies without senate-confirmed appointees, there's a lot of concern about that because you have so many agencies headed by acting officials who are not gone through that rigorous process of being confirmed by the senate for positions that were intended to have that type of oversight from congress. so yet again this is another instance where this president is circumventing congress' advice and consent authority. >> frank, about a week or so ago you talked about alarming signs that when you -- when you sort of as a profile and from your

law enforcement and counterintelligence background, i think this was before it was known what the mueller report's basic conclusions were, you describe some worries about impulsive conduct. is this what you were talking about? just remind our viewers what that warning was. >> what we talked about was a possible analogy between what we're seeing in the president and studies of violence and acting out, particularly work place violence. we talked about the journey and pathway to violence. we see people lashing out, blaming others, obsessive compulsion to one issue and the inability to get off it, in this case it's the border, security on the border and immigration. the question we have to ask ourselves from a behavioral sense is are we watching a president essentially on his way to what we call a flash point and are we beginning to see him act out in the form of purging

and mass firing and completely not listening to any logic, you know when people say to him the law or policy is such and such and we would be violating the constitution or the law and he simply dismisses it and fires people and keeps doing it, are we watching a workplace violence incident play out at the highest level of our government and is he acting out now and where does this go if i'm right about that? >> the flash point has a name, it's called the imminent release of robert mueller's -- at least the obstruction report which says we do not exonerate the president. >> that's true. when you think about the way the president is behaving, quite illogically and irrationally. if you look at the purge at dhs, i think it's likely to have the opposite effect of what he wants. it's going to make it harder to implement his policies, not easier. harder to implement at the border.

acting don't have the same influence over their agencies. people don't follow them, aren't willing to go the extra mile for someone's policy if they think that person is going to be gone and the agency changes course in the next month. when you look at the president acting the way he is now about something that's not really a crisis. sure the surge of immigration at the border is a problem, it's a problem that could be addressed if he was willing to work with congress, but it's not a crisis. you see him melting down and decimating an agency, kind of knocking out the entire top tier of leadership, what happens if we're in a real crisis? we find ourselves the victim of a terrorist attack or a war, and that's without the added complication of the mueller report being released and new questions about his leadership and whether he committed a crime. if it's a dangerous moment or it not, it shows a dangerous character flaw about the president. >> the president in his own words about what he likes about

what matt miller is describing as a dysfunctional government. here's the president on acting. >> did you have an acting ag, acting defense secretary, acting chief of staff -- >> it's okay. it's easier to make moves when they're acting. i like acting because i can move so quickly. gives me more flexibility. >> i remember hearing that one way when i heard it and i just thought, you know, he's just being stupid human tricks like usual. but it has a scarier connotation now that we learned that on immigration he wants to go in a harsher direction. at a serious level what is the bottom of the drain that they want to swirl down? >> two points. first as a clarification on the secret service head, that's unrelited to kirstjen nielsen's resignation, according to the ap reporting, this predated for weeks. >> what's that about? >> it's personality conflicts within the agency and they

wanted a career official to head the secret service, which he was not. it does come amid a larger shakeup at dhs, it's eyebrow raising but it seems it was in the works prior. donald trump wants to have chaos around him. he did so at the trump organization, the campaign, we know how quickly he churned through staff there and the white house too. he fells if weem are acting they'll be that much more loyal to him, to act on his whims because it's easier to dismiss if they give him push back, try to tell him no. we have seen time and time again as this administration has evolved he has little to no patience for anyone who dares stand up to him from the west wing or elsewhere in the administration. he wants people that will embolden him, play into his instincts and in this case it's telling him, despite polling, council from other republicans to go harder at the border.

julia ainsley, the building you're standing in front of has the other half of this calamity. the doj, under jeff sessions announced the policy, any reaction there from the news that the president is going to go harder line? is it in line with ag barr's views on immigration? >> it's interesting, nicole. ag barr released what he'll go over in front of appropriation committees later this week. he does talk about the need for funding to hire more immigration judges which is something people on both sides of the aisle agree to because it speeds up the asylum process, for people to come here and get those protections. but i did ask my sources whether or not barr was in the meetings at the white house about reinstating family celebration, i was told that he was not there. these meetings started before he was even confirmed but so far he hasn't dipped his toe into the

pool the way that jeff sessions did. we know when jeff sessions was here, people on his staff were the architects behind what became zero tolerance and it was sessions who announced it. it's not clear that barr will go to that same place. after the break until the end of time, the chief accomplishment of the ousted dhs secretary will be a cruel policy. with the release of the mueller report days away, the president sweating the big reveal. new reporting from ax owe on what lies ahead. mayor pete buttigieg breaking through once again with one of the most honest and human moments in this young political season. stay with us. this young politi season stay with us ♪ there goes our first big order. ♪ 44, 45, 46... how many of these did they order?

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it was a policy announced by the attorney general of this country that families were going to be separated. that was a policy. he did not say we're going to start enforcing a law. >> the ag memo issued directed all u.s. attorney offices along the southwest border to prosecute all adults referred for prosecution. >> that's a policy. >> madame secretary policy -- >> does it differ from the cages you put your dogs in when you let them stay outside? is it different? >> it -- yes. >> in what sense? >> it's larger. it has facilities. it provides room to sit, to stand, to lay down. >> so did my dog's gauge. >> i just want you to admit that

the cages exist. >> sir, they're not cages. >> but they were, they are. and it's about to get worse. that was ousted homeland security secretary kirstjen nielsen last month. joining our conversation mike murphy, and jason johnson. i guess what i'm grappling with today, two things that i just find galling. one, that she was any sort of guardrail. she made those policies happen. she was his go-to gal on the most -- on immigration policies so inhumane laura bush, who is so reluctant to speak out about anything likened them to japanese internment camps and the news it's going to get worse. >> yeah because it's going to be stephen miller and his white nationalist tendencies are obvious. he goes back to relationships with richard spencer and the alt-right in several different

areas. i think more disturbing she was under no circumstances fighting against the administration she was trying to find ways to smooth it done, cover it with sugar and make it okay. that's what makes it so disgusting you have people that are otherwise okay bureaucrats are capable in engaging in the worst behaviors possible all with the justification of doing what this president wants. >> i miss john mccain for a lot of reasons but mostly for the deal he worked out with ted kennedy for comprehensive immigration reform. it wasn't because he was a squish and because ted kennedy was his friend it was because comprehensive immigration reform is the only one that has any shot at stopping illegal immigration. >> i miss half the republican senators who were for it -- >> they just had low botties. >> it's tribal. that's the problem with the politics now. they like the jobs they have, they're afraid of their primary

voters, put on blinders complain privately about it and keep marching. i'm with the unsurprising consensus here, i don't give her any -- it's interesting, neilsen has such a stain on her that being fired by donald trump doesn't help. that's an accomplishment. what worries me more than the outrage i share about where our immigration policy might go with the knuckle heads in the white house driving it through the tool of the trump white house, which is to be a good yes, man. it's interesting the president is a toddler who can fire his parents when you say no. so we have this auction of people trying to appease his crazyiest impulses. but beyond that dhs is an interesting bureaucratic animal. it was created to force communication between these feuding agencies. so you need a strong master bureaucratic atop that thing to

run the whip. that's gone now. instead it's a competition between all these acting secretaries to who can impress the president or certain staffers staffers by out yahooing each other. >> i spent too much time in the dog park, i have a dog park analogy in my head, i'll leave it in my head. heidi, i want to play for you another low point not just in nielsen's tenure but when history is told, nielsen not able to remember how many human beings -- well, let's just watch. >> as you sit here today, you do not know how many human beings have died while in the custody of the department you lead and in preparation for today's hearing you didn't ascertain that number? >> i don't have an exact figure for you. >> do you have a rough idea? >> sir, what i can tell you -- >> i'm talking about people who have died in your custody.

you don't have the number? >> again, heidi, we're to believe that she has been ousted because donald trump wants that agency to toughen up. again, what does that look like? >>, you know, nicole, i think you and i are going to be old ladies sitting in our rocking chairs and there'll still be stories coming out about what's happening right now at the border and the humanitarian angle about how these people are being treated. we've seen the stories come out steadily but there's more there. we're hearing about pregnant women giving birth to stillborn children because they won't release pregnant women. we're hearing it's going to take two years for these children ripped from their parents to be reunited if ever reunited. some of them may have been adopted out never to be reunited with their parents again. so yes, she is the face of that. and nothing is going to change that. not the firing or her trying to

redeem herself in whatever subsequent role she takes on. but it's also, you know, a stain on this administration. and i think we are all struggling right now to understand what something worse than that is going to look like. if, in fact, this president is prepared to now double down on the policy that has failed so miserably at stopping this humanitarian crisis. i don't think it can be said enough to explain to people how this is different from the type of immigration that -- illegal -- whatever, undocumented that we've seen in the past which was primarily young mexican men coming here in generations past, decades past seeking work, whereas these are families fleeing violence, fleeing drug kingpins and fleeing draught and horrible conditions. >> matt miller it was going to catch up with us to have a president as ignorant as this

one. here he is on what asylum is. >> the asylum program is a scam. some of the roughest people you've ever seen. people that look like they should be fighting for the ufc, they read a little page given by lawyers that are all over the place, you know lawyers, they tell them what to say. you look at this guy, say, wow, that's a tough cookie. i am very fearful for my life. >> in the history of this country asylum seekers have included victims of civil wars, babies, pregnant women, soldiers. it's -- it's unfathomable. >> you know, when i watch that clip and the clip of secretary nielsen failing to remember how many children died in her department's custody, i'm really just filled with shame as an

american. the same sense of shame i felt during the family separation event last year. it's a stain on the administration, on the people who carried out that policy but it's a stain on our country, it's a stain that's not over just because the family separation policy ended last year. the justice department told a federal court on friday it'll be two years before they can account for all the people separated as a result of that policy. two years before they'll say how many people were effected. we still don't know and may never know how many children were orphaned as a result of that policy. the stain that president trump and secretary nielsen put on our country through implementing that policy will never leave us. i shutter to think what family separation 2.0 and whatever else the president comes up with will look like because he doesn't the patience or willingness to sit down and understand immigration policy and come up with something that would work. be willing to work with

congress, take a political risk, he's the one person that can do it, he has such credibility with the right on this issue and come up with a policy. he's never willing to do that so i fear we'll get something that looks worse than the humanitarian disaster we saw last year. after the break one person has an idea how bad the mueller report will be. that's the president. this weekend's twitter tirade suggests he knows the mueller report will raise a fresh round of questions about his efforts to obstruct the investigation. that's next. obstruct the inves. that's next. age-related macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. my doctor and i came up with a plan. it includes preservision. only preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. that's why i fight. because it's my vision. preservision. try areds 2 + multivitamin.

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brand new reporting from axios pulls back the curtain for the first time on what once witness in what robert mueller's obstruction of justice investigation thinks is coming. don mcghan former white house council known to have spent 30 hours with mueller investigators dishing at a private lunch saying, quote, i spent the last couple of years getting yelled

at he said according to two sources at a lunch. and you may soon read about some of the more spirited debates i had with the president. he didn't specifically mention mueller report's but sources in the room said they understood him to be referring to it when he said this. his comments coming ahead of what's likely to be a public clash over mueller's findings. attorney general william barr will be on capitol hill tomorrow expected to face a grilling over the report and concerns he'll use the redacting process to protect the president from damaging information. the table is all back. frank i was reminded today by a former prosecutor that this is the fight we're in now but the fight that's to come will be over the evidence. that whatever mueller produces likely to be more forthcoming around obstruction less classified information and barr's already said that trump

waved any privilege issues but once they see that and because mueller didn't exonerate trump and didn't recommend charges that the next fight will be over the evidence that mueller had. do you agree with that? >> yeah, the devil is going to be in the details. by the details i mean everything from footnotes to exhibits and agent interview notes and on and on. look, attorney general barr is handling this about as wrong as you can handle any kind of p.r. or credibility situation you're going to be presented as a leader. he needs to be as transparent and forthcoming as possible because every day that goes on without some release of information and a total release as possible makes him look more and more like someone who's on the side of the president and not on the side of the nation. personally for me, nicole, it's getting harder and harder for me to give him the benefit of the doubt and say i hope he's going

to be the right thing. we've been hearing he's an institutionalist, believes in the system. every day that passes it's harder for me to do that. and soon you'll be hearing demands for the democrats to step up, stop trusting, and get the thing completely subpoenaed, get mueller on the hill, if you need to get his lead prosecutors and agents on the hill. this thing is far from over. former republican prosecutor said to me there's a scenario where the -- just the crush of the narrative of the obstruction case is so alarming the conduct so outside the range of normal that even though mueller didn't recommend criminal prosecution, which you couldn't have indicted him, but if it were bad enough -- to look at it, it was bad enough that they didn't recommend not prosecuting. they basically threw their hands up. there may be a scenario where democrats reconsider their no

impeachment line. >> it is possible. we saw from barr a rush to frame the story, the total exoneration line which was not in the report. it's been interesting talking to people around the white house in the last week or two, the sense of bullish optimism has faded and been replaced by worry about what else is going to come out. it's not helped that barr has had to write letters clarifying what he's doing. there's a sense some of the report is coming out in the next few days, possible. and an anxiety around the president that their victory was a little premature -- >> you think. >> -- now they're recognizing that. and now they're fearing if something comes out that's not criminal, but it's embarrassing or damaging, and set the president over the edge but in the long-term could get speaker pelosi, democrats to say we took

impeachment off the table we need to look at it again now. weather that's politically smart remains to be seen. but that's something the president has focussed on that, she's assured me she's not going to impeachment me. if that becomes an option again, people around the president are bracing themselves for how the president is going to react. >> heidi, i want to ask you a question, again talking to republicans here, think if there's a desire to have the next fight, to fight for the underlying evidence that impeachment proceedings would be the most effective legislative tool for doing that. is that on the table? are the democrats talking about that? >> it's the republicans actually who are talking about that. i think politically they may like to see there be an impeachment proceeding launched because politically they believe that plays into trump's kind of persecution narratives that democrats are launching these impeachment proceedings before having the facts. but here's the thing, they're saying, republicans, that you almost have to do that legally

in order to get this grand jury information. now democrats quibble with that. however, right now, they don't have a way of getting that information because attorney general barr is not saying that he will go to the courts and get what is essentially an authorization to release that grand jury information. so the concern right now among democrats is that they're going to get a very redacted report and that it's going to be insufficient. they're going to have to take this to the courts. they have the subpoena cannon loaded but republicans are saying, basically, let's play a game of chicken here. go ahead launch that impeachment proceeding because that's the only way you're going to get the grand jury information. and democrats are trying to find some way around that, nicole, without going through this lengthy court battle which could take months if not years. >> what's the smart play for democrats, matt? >> i think there's an open question whether they need to have an impeachment inquiry to get information from the grand jury. they would be in a stronger position if they did. you don't need to do that to get

the underlying information from doj that doesn't involve grand jury material. what they thought to demand is the hillary clinton standard, the standard that republicans set for hillary clinton. that is within two months of the end of the clinton investigation 2016, despite the fact that it was in the middle of a political campaign, the justice department handed over the investigative file that included the 302, which is the record of fbi notes with hillary clinton, to the congress of the united states. it's now been more than week since barr sent his letter, we haven't seen the full report. the clock is ticking for him to turn over the underlying information. no reason he can't meet the hillary clinton standard. if he can't do that, there better be a good explanation for it, better than we'll give you damaging information about democrats but when it comes to republicans, we'll keep it secret. >> matt filler and frank figliuzzi thank you so much. after the break, pete buttigieg wins more than a news

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when i came out in 2015, it was for the simple reason that i was finally ready. i had been wrestling with my sexuality for years. and if i had not deployed to afghanistan, i might never have found the courage to come out. there's another part of the story that frankly even now i have a harder time talking about. i think because it's hard to admit. i'm uncomfortable admitting it even now. even though it's something that maybe won't be so surprising. and it's the fact that when i was younger, i would have done anything to not be gay. if you had offered me a pill to make me straight, i would have swallowed it before you had time to give me a sip of water. it is a hard think to think about now. it's hard to face the truth that there were times in my life when if you had shown me exactly what it was inside me that made me gay, i would have cut it out

with a knife. thank god there was no pill. thank god there was no knife. >> a big, powerful moment for pete buttigieg sunday in washington. the mayor of south bend, indiana spoke in a deeply personal way to an audience of lgbt rights supporters about how he grappled with his own sexual sexuality as a war. he spoke about his early dating experiences, meeting his husband and this op-ed in the south bend tribune in a lead up to his election. and he called out mike pence by name over his opposition to gay rights. >> i can tell you that if he being gay was a choice, it was a choice that was made far, far above my pay grade.

and that's the thing i wished the mike pences of the world would understand. if you have a problem with who a i am. your problem is not with me. your quarrel, sir, is with my creator. >> this guy is chicken soup for my soul. >> this is pete buttigieg -- this is obama's rights speech early. this is a very, very impressive speech. i think back it was just 12, 13 years ago when mcgravy had to step down for saying he was out, it is a reflection of how much progress we have made in this country. i'm not sold on mayor pete as a candidate. i think he is a centrist midwestern democrat i think his strategy about trump voters is wrong. i think his history with firing that black police chief in his town is going to be a problem and we need to investigate that

that much more. but in this area, as a candidate who can speak to a namarginaliz community with faith and conviction, that made me think of obama. that's the only candidate that's made me think of the previous president. >> he's done something impressive early, he's broken out of aa level, the mayor of south bend. he's now in the race. he's raised enough money, broken through nationally. he has an act -- i don't mean that in a prejorive way, he has something to say, and he's competing with beto for the golden retriever vote, finally a nice person, which is a huge contrast to trump. he's like beto's smarter brother a little bit. so the two are surfing a big voter wave which is worth something. will it get them nominated? a lot of turns to go. but unfortunately joe biden has

started to wobble a little bit. the idea of somebody new and fresh is open, you have two strong candidates now we'll see if they can survive the whirlpool for a year of running for president. so far so good he got himself in the race. that's an he is remarkably com. his story is tran sscendent. he was a veteran. he seems to have an ability to connect with people in a deep way, very different. and he could not create a more polar opposite than our current president. fast forward to what that election would be like. we're a long way from there. he has come much further than i think anyone would. there's a real buzz there. the mayor of new york city, bill de blasio is considering getting in the race with little poll numbers or buzz. not to say he can't turn it around. a mayor of a city and has that energy behind him is a testament

how he is connecting with people. >> nicole, a time we watch so many of the presidential campaigns devolve into dehumanizing each other, he in knock lated himself. it was a human moment into his pain. he was willing to share it with the entire country, really says a lot. what he is doing is interesting, fresh frontier in terms of campaigning on the issue of values. for a long time it has been an issue that the republican party felt was their strong point, their exclusive kind of argument on who has the values, who is the value party. he reframed it in terms of christianity, practicing christianity that appreciates all of god's children and talks about contrasting that, for example, with mike pence. we have seen him do that on a number of times, nicole, when he

talked about mike pence championing the porn star presidency, contrasting it with his own marriage where he shared with us how his husband walked him through a difficult time with the death of his father. i think he will be reframing what christian values and family values not just on this but on a number of topics. for instance, is it christian values to oppose abortion, but once the child is born not give the mom maternity leave, take away supplemental nutrition assistance. >> because i spent all of my career until two years ago as a political operative, let me say this. we can't slice up candidates like we used to, used to slice off the head, are they smart enough, slice off the heart, and slice off the legs and say how do they move around the iowa state fair. that's over. this person will run against someone with no shame.

there are three things you need to win if you're a democrat. one, no capacity for shame. that speech is a lot more than being gay in america. it is saying i am who i am and i have no shame. in fact, shame take a hike. that person has to be able to speak to better angels but not ignore evil ones. his words to mike pence were uncommon for you. it is not god's will i feel shame, it is above my pay grade that i'm gay and above yours too, mike pence. people will make a decision based on how the candidate makes them feel. that guy there, that guy makes me feel better. >> interesting though, the political world, consultant types -- >> the unemployed consultant types. what do they do. >> they're employed on the democratic side in particular now. here's a secret conversation about mayor pete. i thought he did a good job pointing the vote. after he gets out of iowa and new hampshire if he does well

and heads south, where the democrats are older, more secular, more culturally conservative. >> heidi hit on that. he is running a values campaign. >> he is going to flip that coin. he has to put that part of it together to be nominated. >> here's the thing. when i talk about again this issue with the firing of the police chief, racial controversies of the city, income inequality, all these things are cute. but you have a city of 100,000 people. when you have a city that small, i expect something to be done. these are cute speeches. but he has to talk to latinos and black women and talk to african-american men, and he has to talk to asian americans. once he moves out of the nice beautiful space of being the good suburban guy from college parents, i have to see that he can -- >> also a war veteran, i don't disagree, but also a veteran. i don't take any of that from

you. he is more than a college educated guy from a suburban family. >> right. but the kind of democratic party he has to communicate with. >> no doubt. >> i don't think he is ready. we'll have to see. >> the other question, can he fight. if i were him, i would take a poke at bernie first debate. >> free advice from republican has beens. you won't get it anywhere else. we'll be right back. se we'll be right back. he was 34% eastern european. so i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors we thought was italian was eastern european. this is my ancestor who i didn't know about. he looks a little bit like me, yes. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story. get started for free at ancestry.com

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details are out around the firing of the secret service chief, the man who until today was the department responsible for protecting the president and his family, taking a bullet for them if necessary. here is new detail from "new york times." the president soured on him awhile ago, making fun of his looks, calling him dumb bo for s ears. >> the president making fun of his appearance. >> this is a guy that would take a bullet. >> remains from some of the things he would say about people in service of the country and people meant to protect him and his family. we know for this president, how you appear matters. arguably the most popular phrase is someone out of central casting, he wants people to look their part. how he imagines they do in the hollywood movie about being the president, in this case it wasn't with this gentleman.

>> he is a decorated career marine, donald trump was hitting the beaches of studio 54, it is despicable. >> perhaps i have a hollywood fantasy version. i think of the person protecting him, the idea that you would insult that person, be anything other than indebted to them, happy. shows what a president we have. >> that does it for this hour. nicole wallace. thank you for watching. "mtp daily" starts now with my friend, katy tur in for chuck. >> nicole, didn't he call jeff sessions mr. magoo, made fun of his accent. >> made fun of bolton's mustache. i mean, he is a cruel dude. >> he is mean. >> nicole wallace. if it is monday, new separation