tuesday morning. i'mi i'm yasmin vossoughan. "morning joe" starts now. >> the powers of the president will not be questioned. >> the president of the united states is correct 100%. >> the powers of the president will not be questioned. >> the powers of the question will not be questioned. >> the powers of the president will not be questioned. >> the power of the president will not be questioned. remember that? that was real. steven miller said that. he is reported being awarded for his fieldity. donald trump has put him in charge of immigration.

good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, april 9th. along with joe, willie and me, we have national analyst john heilemann. he's the co-host and exit have producer of showtime's "the circus," we have hieidi pryzbyl, we also have eugene robinson and we have a birthday boy, willie, it's not you, it's joe. >> i'm surprised you're here on a national holiday, joe. happy birthday. >> yeah, you should really be off today. >> a big win, ralph finally got his national championship. >> took 35 years. people didn't stay up late enough last night. people thought it was going to be a defensive game. it was overtime, 85-77. virginia beat texas tech.

virginia had it at 3 with about 12 seconds left to tie the game and go to overtime. think back to over a year ago when virginia was the number one seed and for the first time in the history of the tournament a one lost to a 16 seed. virginia now a year later is the national champion. >> that is really big news. >> it seems like, mika, you have so many friends and relatives that went to uva. >> tia went there and richard garner. i'm a uva family. my brother mark. >> i was actually thinking about going to uva. >> then what happened? >> then they got my application. >> just the hard numbers prevented that? just be aiobjective data. >> i told them i had subjective qualities that didn't fit neatly

into their -- >> joe tried to play the extra curricular card and didn't quite work. >> being in a garage band somehow didn't take me to thomas jefferson school. >> okay, there's a lot happening this morning, including new developments in the presidential race. there's another one. congressman eric swalwell jumps in as amy klobuchar stakes out her ground in the fund-raising fight. it's still peanuts compared to what the democrats brought in a few years back. and benjamin netanyahu is fighting for another term as isra israel's prime minister. we begin with the president apparently purging allies of his ex-chief of staff and first john

kelly. in a statement u.s. secret service director was fired and he said i assure you that this is not the case, and in fact was told weeks ago by the administration that transitions in leadership should be expected across the department of homeland security. as an outsider, alles was not pop already with the agent. the president made fun of his looks, calling him dumbo because of his ears. what is wrong with this guy? there's going to be nobody left, joe, by the way. how many openings are there in this administration? >> you should at least give me

the pregnant pause here. willie, who is donald trump to make fun of people's looks? >> oh, no, here we go. >> it's like when he was calling somebody pencil neck. i mean, have you seen his neck lately? it's like a bull frog when he's talking. so who is donald trump to make fun of people's looks? i know he thinks he's a svelt 239 because dr. ronnie told him so, but this guy is -- and by the way, and the childish insults continue. this guy, this guy who i suspect if any doctor had a look at him and actually weighed him and told him the truth, this guy would be obese or close to being morbidly obese. this guy is calling jerry nadler fat jerry according to reports last night. get out of fifth grade.

>> we're used to the insults but in this case, when you think about who he's calling dumbo, it's the director of the secret service, whose duties include taking a bullet for the preds of the united states. these are all john kelly people, steven miller, the young 33-year-old adviser to the president is running policy on immigration clearly. anybody who had anything to do with johnson john kelly, the former chief of staff in the white house, is being run out of this administration. >> and, john heilemann, this is part of a much big are plan for donald trump and something that they've talked about, "they" being donald trump and jared kushner and people around them for a long time. that is a suspicion of professionals, a suspicion of state department professionals, of bureaucratic professionals. when you'd ask them, well, who is going to run it, well, we are, we're going to run it all

from here. this is more of the same. looks like steven miller may be -- tell me, is it steven miller running dhs from the white house? >> it looks like that's the case. >> there's a suspicion of professionals and suspicion of people who are career servants, people who have policy experience and understand the way the government works. part of what he apparently is upset about is the fact he has appointees in place who heaven forbid think there is such a thing as the rule of law. so the president tells the secretary of homeland security he wants to close the southern border or implement policies that just on their face are illegal and he is told by his appointees or others in the professional corps that who can't do certain things and the president's reaction to that is to steyfire them. the prospect of steven miller

having more power is terrifying to many people. it's a total fundamental lack of respect for the way the government is supposed to work, a lack of respect for institutional arrangements and a lack of respect for the basic rule of law. >> so the vacancies at the dhs have top lawmakers expressing their worry about disorganization at the department. dianne feinstein, the ranking member of the judiciary committee said the purge of senior leadership at the dhs is unprecedented and a threat to our national security. that's at least ten top positions filled by someone in an acting capacity. and, by the way, we're just talking about dhs here. there's a bigger conversation to have about how this government is being run. but here is republican chairman of the senate homeland security committee, ron johnson, followed by analysis by nbc's justice correspondent pete williams, who

has covered the department of homeland security since its inception. >> i'm concerned. i'm concerned of a growing void of leadership within the department of homeland security. i'll be talking to commission mcaleenan, who will be the acting secretary and we'll start talking about what is happening inside the department and how are we going to fill these leadership commissions? >> without a leader, without a deputy secretary, without a head of fema, without a head of i.c.e., this whole immigration thing has totally overshadowed what still is the department of homeland security's mission. i told my colleagues and julia when she was at reuters and i'd often see her at homeland

security briefings, i used to remember when we talked about terrorism and homeland security and now it seems all we talk about is immigration. >> and that is a great irony, donald trump who campaigned claiming he was such a fierce opponent of islam beiic radical he's now turned this department away from its core mission and is now a department that's new goal is to chase shadows along the southern border. >> that's exactly right. this is all really this whole purge i think is about the one policy that's been a pretty consistent policy of this administration and this president, which is the country is full. we're no longer a nation of immigrants. we're full up. we don't want you. you're poor, you're tired, you're huddled masses, stay away, get lost, beat it, you

know, look, there are reports this president wants to restart the cruelest policy he's enacted so far of child separation, for which people really should go to jail. again, reports that he's told border agents when he's talked to them in person don't listen to the judges, don't follow the law. just tell these asylum seekers to stay away. this is stephen miller ears visi -- miller's vision of america and his vision of america is that it's closed. >> the whole idea of starting the child separation policy again is certainly claimed by kirstjen nielsen and those around her as she departs that this is something she was fighting against for the past

several months. we don't know if this is true tore spin for someone on the way out. one thing that not disputable is that donald trump is not the least bit chastened by the hardened numbers, by the reaction of separating infants from their mothers at the border and many still separated today. >> the courts have ruled against that, joe. she probably pointed that out to him, among other things, but with this president, it's unclear whether that is going to stop him. what is clear is that this is by all accounts an indication that he is going to go in a tougher direction. so at this hour we are trying to determine as reporters what that means, going in a tougher direction given what we've already seen, given that the courts have ruled against him. it could mean going ahead and closing down those ports of entry. we've also heard talk about him

wanting to basically meter asylum claims, in other words, slow down the number of people who can actually apply for asylum. in addition to closing those ports, ending birth right citizenship. that's another one that has been very controversial but is back in the background that could come to the fore, depending on who he empowers. this is definitely going to go in a tougher direction. the child separation policy, expect additional courts to try and step in and stop that, but stephen mill ser definitely reempowered here and any number of these things could be on the plate. >> thank you so much, heidi. we're going to get back to this later on. part of my problem with uva is i didn't realize at the time i could have somebody else take my

s.a.t. tests for me or my a.c.t. tests. >> you were a hell of a rower, though. >> see, that's the thing. i could have been on the bob sled team, the jamaican bob sled team if only my parents had said, hey, joe is the front guy in the -- >> the front guy, that's what they call it. >> the red neck riviera bob sled team. i will say that's one of the shol shocks of college cheating -- >> varsity blues. >> this varsity blues thing. i never knew this but just how over -- being on a sports team sailing, playing soccer, i mean, i knew that was important but for the best schools in america, i'd always been told they don't really care about that, they'll let you in school but you still have to pay and it's not much of

a big deal. no, it's a huge deal. too huge of a deal. >> without mentioning names in high school, there were kids who got into ivy league school and i said huh? it's because he or she played hockey or lacrosse. 13 parents and one college coach have now agreed to plead guilty. they're accused of paying thousands of dollars in bribes to the scheme's organizer to help their children cheat on college entrance exams and to falsify athletic record to secure admission to elite schools. actress felicity huffman will plead guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and honest services mail fraud. she's accused of paying $15,000

for her daughter to get extra time on the s.a.t. test and for a procter to later correct her daughter's answers. huffman said yesterday she accepts full responsibility for her actions and apologized to, quote, the students who work hard every day and to their parents who make tremendous sacrifices to support their children and do so honestly. meanwhile, all of the defendants who improperly took tax deductions for the bribe payments have agreed to work with the irs to pay back taxes. at least 50 people have been charged in the sweeping case. more parents are expected to plead guilty later this week. joining us is legal analyst danny shecevallos. let's talk about felicity huffman first. are you surprised the pleas came in this quickly? and what's the likelihood she and the others go to jail? >> not surprised, these are

exactly the kind of defendants who plead guilty early and often. people like felicity huffman just doesn't have the stomach, like many of us, for a protracted trial that will bring out all of their dirty laundry. these are the kind of defendants who seek a plea agreement as early as they possibly can and they'll been fit from it. felicity huffman is likely to get a straight probation sentence. that means no incarceration. the statuary maximum is 20 years. but that's a horrible predictor of the sentence someone like huffman will get. she's got no prior criminal history. her sentencing guideline range is in the four-to-ten month range. the guidelines are only advisory and a lot of judges will sentence below the guidelines where a defendant rushes to the

courtroom to plead guilty. >> i guess felicity huffman is charged with paying $15,000 to impact her daughter's standardized testing score. there are over parents i think it's lori loughlin who she and her husband paid $500,000 per child and there were pictures involved of the kids pretending to be crew members of the crew team. is that potentially a prison-time personality or will they be able to walk without jail time s? >> the thing that makes this thing strange is what is the dollar amount lost and gained? were the colleges defrauded? absolutely. what did the parents, the consumers actually gain in terms of dollar amount. the government, if they plead guilty, is going to set that range. even felicity huffman has an

opportunity to make an argument. the on opportunity she's allowed is to essentially make an argument that the loss or gain, the loss to the victim or gain to the defendant was lower than the government actually says it is. but if it's a high dollar amount, that loss or gain, that is the single biggest driver in sentences when it comes to the fraud guidelines. that could launch a defendant into some real prison time. >> wow. >> all right, danny. thank you so much. >> we want to move to israel. >> willie, i got an idea. >> oh, no, come on. this is a horrible story, this varsity blues. these people -- >> you don't think it's a good idea? >> willie, don't bite! >> it his birthday. >> i'm going to put a spaceship up and we'll put little jack and w. in helmets and we'll say they were like junior astronauts or something, that richard branson

invited them to orbit the earth or something and get them into whatever school they wanted to. >> apparently it works, photo shop and-a million dollars to go where you want to go. >> i don't have half a million dollars but i get the green screen. that's halfway there. no, can you believe that these parents would actually photo shop their kids playing a sport? it's just bizarre. >> it is. i mean, i guess i'm not surprised that people with money and power sought an advantage. i'm surprised they were willing to cross so many lines and spend so much money to do it. i think your lesson is let your kid go to the best school he or she can get into. it's going to be great. it doesn't matter if it's the one you think is the right one. let your kid go to the school where they can excel and have a good time. >> i ask the entire table. obviously these people committed crimes and be found guilty.

but it's a very common thing now among rich people who play within the rules to give millions of dollars to their alma maters. we've seen very rich people build buildings on their campus. in the case of at least one hollywood celebrity who boasted about how his kid got into usc without any cheating, he built a $70 million building on campus. those are legal but it speaks about how the system is driven by such perverse incentives that even people who play within the rules are pretty grotesque. >> even if you take a step back, you have parents paying 3 million or 30 million for buildings so their kids can get into a school. take a step even back from that, right? you have a bunch of middle class kids working as hard as they

can, going up against wealthier kids, going up against kids from families who are better off, and a lot of us here are guilty, who, like, work with their kids, prepare their kids, have them take prep classes for s.a.t. courses, have them have tutors to help them to know how to step through the s.a.t. courses. my parents couldn't afford that growing up and would never even have thought about doing something like that. and mika, that's why i really do think i hope moving forward we move away from a system and i think we're starting to, that is so dependent on the s.a.t. scores because so much of that puts working class kids, middle class kids, kid from truly disadvantaged neighborhoods really behind the eight ball when they're competing against wealthier kids. >> all right. there's so much more to talk about and i'd love to continue

this conversation, but we got to get to the elections in israel. bill neeley is standing by with the very latest there. bill? >> yeah, good morning, mika. voting has begun. there really is just one item that this election is all about, benjamin netanyahu. it's a referendum on him. this man has been this country's leader for about a fifth of the country's history. many people are sick and tired of him. he's facing allegations of corruption, he may well be indicted on those allegations, but he's got a trump card in his back pocket, quite literally, president trump. president trump is more popular in israel than in any country in the world and benjamin netanyahu has been playing on that. the two of them are together on netanyahu's election posters and his election videos. and of course president trump has been bearing gifts to

mr. netanyahu, moving the israeli -- many israeli are worried they simply don't want to give up this unique and rather generous relationship for israel. guys. >> that it is. nbc's bill neeley in israel. we'll be watching this and hope to hear back from you. thank you very, very much. still ahead on "morning joe," attorney general william barr is scheduled to appear on capitol hill later today where he'll likely be grilled about the mueller report. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. joe." we'll be right back. ♪

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it handles everything, and reaches everywhere. this is beyond wifi, this is xfi. simple. easy. awesome. xfinity, the future of awesome. i see a country this quick sand, unable to solve problems abroad, unable to make things better at home. nothing gets done. i talk to teachers and chutruck are a-- truckers and nurses. i talk to people like me who can't buy a home, can't start a business. i talk to kids in school afraid they'll be the next victim of gun violence. they see lawmakers who love their guns more than they love our kids and none of that is going to change until we get a

leader who is willing to go big on the issues we take on, be bold on the solutions we offer and do good in the way that we govern. i'm ready to solve these problems. i'm running for president of the united states. all right. after months of speculation, eric swalwell of california, has thrown his hat into the race. swalwell has been a prominent voice on russian interference in u.s. elections and other investigations into the trump administration's dealings with foreign powers. he's also made gun reform a top priority during his time in congress. his first major event as a candidate will be a town hall on ending gun violence later today, just 13 miles from marjory stoneman douglas high school in park land, florida. and minnesota governor amy

klobuchar's campaign announced yesterday she has raised $5.2 million in the first seven weeks of her 2020 bid. she said the average online donation made was $40 and that 85% of donors gave less than $100. klobuchar's first quarter fund-raising totals puts her just ahead of new jersey senator cory booker who announced over the weekend $5 million but behind south bend, indiana mayor pete buttigieg who has raised $7 million for his potential presidential campaign. however, some democrats are voicing concerns about the low fund-raising totals being posted by the 2020 democratic field. rufus gifford, the form are finance director for president obama's reelection campaign tweeted yesterday saying, quote, i have to say i'm concerned by how little money the 2020 dem

candidate are raising. the last time there was a large field in 2000, hillary clinton, barack obama and john edwards raised big totals. so far every candidate to release their numbers have posted significantly less than the $26 raised by clinton and the $25 million raised by obama in the first quarter of their prime rip battary battle. >> john heilemann, what is the impact of these democrats raising so few dollars? >> i wouldn't exactly say it's so few dollars, joe. in 2008, you had hillary clinton, a fund-raising juggernaut and barack obama, who was a star on the rise in a way that the party or very few of the democrats this time around were. it was clear from the beginning of that race it was a three-person race. there were eight or nine people in the field but obama, clinton,

edwards were seen from the beginning as the top tier. now there are so many candidates that are all competing for dollars and there's so little clarity about the shape of the field that a lot of traditional big dollar donors are waiting to see what the field is before they make a determination about who they want to be with and the low dollar is now the way that people tend to raise. so the combination of the change in the fund-raising landscape with this very populated, crowded field, with it being an unsettled field -- it's fair to compare the two but i'd be interested where we are in the third quarter after a couple of debates have shaken out and it's a little clearer what the top tier of the race is, whether they're still struggling or falling short to raise money. that would be a greater concern for democrats at the moment. it's such a crazy field right now, i wouldn't be as concerned if i were a rufus gifford, i might think about the perspective from that point of

view. >> but, gene, you look at all the people that are jumping in and there does seem to be a new candidate every day. obviously there's a crowding out effect. nobody's going to be able to raise a ton of money and the bundlers, the people that were driving those clinton numbers to 26 million and the obama numbers to 25 million, they're doing the smart thing right now. they're sitting on the sideline because this is like people milling into a national's baseball game like an hour before the game. the stands are slowly filling up. you just don't know how many people are going to be there by the end. >> yeah, yeah. but i mean, it's starting to get a little worrisome how many people are going to be there, joe. i mean, look, who's not running? i mean, everybody so far who we thought might, kind of, sort of maybe run is actually running. and i think, you know, i think john heilemann's point is a good

one. there are so many of them that obviously the money is kind of spread out and the bundlers are sitting on the sideline. at some point this field does have to start to differentiate. there's so many candidates that it's getting to be time now where we start to identify a top tier and a middle tier and then the rest. and they need to start raising some money, building some organization, getting out there, getting that name recognition. so i guess i share a bit of gifford's concerns that nobody is really shooting out the lights, not even bernie. >> but you know, willie, if you're joe biden, you love how this is shaping up. you have 20, 25, maybe 30 candidates by the end to split up the field and then you're joe biden sitting there with -- you walk in day one with 35% of the vote. a new south carolina poll out there yesterday showing he's

dominating in south carolina as well. again, you're the one that has the name i.d. and that's leading all the early polls, you want 25, 30 candidates that are cut. >> that's where a lot of those traditional democratic donors are sitting, waiting for some of the obama money. aside from joe biden, we're waiting to see if seth molten, terry mcal i, tedk mcauliffe, abrams -- >> and bennett. >> bennett gets in. >> and the montana governor, he's a great candidate as well. >> that's going to be 30 candidates, willie. >> we'll need stadium seating going right up the side.

it's very early in the race. this field will get winnowed down. and to many, this was preferably to before. it will take time but people will fall to the wayside. out of these 23 or 25 people, they will find somebody who can beat donald trump. >> still ahead, we're going to talk to a member of the house homeland security committee about what she thinks the trump administration should do in order to address security. "morning joe" is back in a moment. joe" is back in a moment my experience with usaa has been excellent.

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now, congress has to act, they have to get rid of catch and release, catch and release and frankly, we should get rid of judges. you can't have a court case every time somebody steps their foot on our ground. the asylum program is a scam.

some of the roughest people you've ever seen, people that look luke they should be fighting for the ufc. they read a little page given by lawyers that are all over the place, you know, lawyers. they tell them what to say. you look at this guy, you say, wow, that's a tough cookie. >> i "i am very fearful for my life. i am very worried that i will be accosted if i was sent back home." no, no, he'll do the accosting. asylum. oh, give him asylum, he's afraid! he's afraid! we don't love the fact that he's got tattoos on his face. that's not a good sign. >> some of the rhetoric from president trump on recent days on immigration and asylum. now a federal court says the

trump administration cannot force asylum seekers to wait in mexico while their cases work their way through u.s. immigration courts. the now outgoing kirstjen nie nielsen initiated many program just last week. but the judge for the northern district of california ruled that the policy violates immigration laws and did not include sufficient safeguards to comply with the obligation against returning migrants to places where their life or freedom would be threatened. joining us now, a member of the house armed services abnd homeland security committee.

xochitl torres small, good morning. the number of people missing from positions is a real concern. >> it's a real concern. i don't think what the administration is doing is helping. in many ways it's making it worse. part of what we're seeing, for example, is the situation of leadership in the department of homeland security. we have a real challenge in continuity. it's very difficult to build relationships and work to the without a stable leadership at the top. >> so explain how it's making the situation actually worse because a lot of people, you know, who might be buying into we've got a real problem at the border, we're full, no more people coming in, some of these policies are actually creating the problem, are they not? >> instead of focusing on thee divisive party line issue, we should be looking at ways we can

make ourselves safe and support law enforcement and also that we're reflecting our values when it comes to dealing with families along the border. there are bipartisan solutions. the first legislation i introduced was co-introduced with republican will herd and it talked about putting to the a recruit and retention strategy to fill the remote spots along the border. one of the challenges is not getting the right resources in the right places. we should all be focused together on this. >> good morning. it's good to see you. do you believe as the president has said that there is some kind of a crisis at the border? do you believe there's a humanitarian crisis and/or do you believe there's a national security crisis? >> so as you mentioned, i grew up along the border and i'm

actually the only member of the homeland security committee that represents a dkt aloistrict alo u.s./mexico border. i see challenges gotting bettin as we see more and more families presenting at the border. we have a bipartisan agreement to increase judges. that was part of the resolution over the shutdown. instead those immigration judges haven't been hired. there are ways we can make our asylum process more efficient that are just being ignored right now. >> you believe there is a crisis at the border now, it just that there's not enough being done about it? >> i think there are reproblems at the border and they're just not being addressed right now. >> heidi. >> congresswoman, this staff shake-up portends an even

tougher shackup at the borde -- shake-up at the border. do you know what that means and what the administration plans to do about it? >> we've seen a real deficit in policy. i remain optimistic that there are ways to work together and we have a real policy that looks forward toward solutions instead of scoring political point. >> what do you think this policy portends? what is the president going to do that'sin tougher than he's already done is this. >> that's a real concern that i have. we could work together on things like making the asylum process more efficient. we could work together on supporting our law enforcement along the border, our border patrol and customs officers with the right technology, we can work to the in if that's what the president is envisioning but that's what i'm going to keep working towards. >> all right, please come back

on the show. it would great to have your voice. coming up, we're learning details about what secret service agents found when they arrested a woman, a possible spy at mar-a-lago last month. that's ahead on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ plants capture co2. what if other kinds of plants captured it too?

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. federal authorities revealed in court yesterday that the fbi is investigating whether the woman arrested at mar-a-lago is a spy. she was taken in a custody for illegally entering the president's resort and lying to the secret service. she allegedly had two passports, four cell phones and a usb drive which contained malware. a secret service agent testified

yesterday that he put the usb drive into his computer and it immediately started to install files. in her room at a nearby hotel, zhang had nine more drives and a recording device. last week president trump downplayed the situation calling it, quote, a fluke. john heilemann, that seems like quite a fluke. >> i think it's pretty clear, it's not conclusive, but it's pretty clear you're looking at somebody doing some kind of intelligence work on the part of the chinese. you know, the story of the downloading of the thumb drive or the plug-in of the thumb

drive and immediate corruption of the computer is staggering. it's telling us something we already suspected and knew, quite contrary to the notion this is a fluke, what it really is telling you is that mar-a-lago is a soft target and the notion that we've had a lot of discussion of this over the last week, that this has become the place that the president does so much business and the place that is so insecure or unsecure, we've seen things happening that are troubling in the past. this is maybe the most troubling things, though the president has done some things on the ground of mar-a-lago that have presented security threats and risks in the past. the whole thing that makes it so disgusting and scary is the fact that it's all done that the president wants to keep mar-a-lago open as a club for his personal profit, so he's prioritizing his own net worth over the security of the united states.

>> heidi priz blayzbyla, before go, william barr testifying today? >> correct. expect him to take a pass on answering some of the more detailed questions about the mueller report, but also expect lawmakers to try and just get some pretty basic answers out of him, starting with did mueller even intend for barr to make that decision on obstruction. behind it all, mika, will be the threat of that subpoena cannon, which the democrats have already loaded up, but i think we're going to have to wait for the more detailed answers to come out when the report is released after this redaction process expected sometime next week. >> yes, we're still awaiting the mule are report. coming up, jon tester is set to meet with the new dhs chief

mcaleenan. jake sherman and anna palmer join us to talk about their new book "the hill to die on." we'll be back in a moment. ." we'll be back in a moment. book now at choicehotels.com.

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>> thank you. >> we have john heilemann, pulitzer prize columnist, eugene robinson, and joining the conversation, senior writer at politico and msnbc political contributor jake sherman and politico senior washington correspondent anna comber, they are co-authors the "the hill to die on, the battle for congress and the future of trump's america." >> congratulations on the book, jake and anna. jake, first of all, tell us about the battle on the hill and specifically tied to what's going on today, not a lot of people happy on the hill that dhs is now gutted. >> one thing that keeps coming to mind in reporting on our book -- we sat down for 26

months to talk about donald trump and legislating, donald trump told news an interview that he wasn't so upset or indicated he wasn't so upset that republicans lost the house because he figured he can work with democrats. he would say just bring me legislation and if i like it, i'll sign it and republicans he thought were too picky with what they want to do with legislation. if you look at today's framework that's quite stunning is the president is under a barrage of investigations, is unable to get practically anything through congress over the next couple years. quite stunning when you think about it in that context. >> anna, the president is so distracted in his desire to talk about things that have nothing to do with running the government, but in terms of dhs and all these gaping holes,

across the board a lot of acting secretaries and acting commissioners and acting heads of departments instead of permanent people, isn't there concern moving forward on capitol hill about whether or not this impacts national security in a real and tangible way? >> i think there is a concern. i think what we found in talking to a lot of members sitting down with him for multiple times a month is privately they were leading the country with mitch mcconnell and paul ryan, that they were steering the ship as best as they could. chuck grassley and john cornyn, who rarely speak against the president, have come out pretty forcefully in a way that i don't think can be overstated. >> this fits into the larger question that you guys write about in the book, which is how republicans handle this president, how they've handled

him for two and a half years -- actually, longer going back to the "access hollywood" tape. a tweet comes out in the morning, reports are rush to paul ryan and they're asked to respond and they roll their eyes and say i'm not going to respond to everything the president tweets or says or does. are you surprised there hasn't been more criticism from the president and if not, why? >> ryan's a main character of this book. we kind of trace his -- i don't know how to say it -- transition to a big trump krcritic, to somebody supporting the president to somebody the president calls foxhole paul, because he didn't stick in the foxhole with him. the congress is so polarized

that you really lose by not being with the president but on an issue like this, this is just chaos. and chuck grassley has former members of his staff in the administration who he's desperately trying to save so they have their own kind of personal and parochial interest at play here, too. am i surprised? the answer in short is no. he's an overpowering figure and there isn't much plus in many cases in getting on his bad side. >> you look and say why is lindsey graham behaving the wave -- way he is, he could get a primary challenge in his state. do you hear privately what i hear, people rolling their eyes and being exasperated about the level and amount and consistency of what comes out of his mouth and then says something different? >> you have republicans who are looking at 2020. you have a cory gardner in

colorado. those are senators who are going to be in tight races that are trying to figure out how to thread the needle of how to be with the president when it's advantageous to them but how do they push back on some of the issues, not only politically but also philosophically they differ with where trump is. >> let me stay with this. talk about mcconnell, another big figure in your book. if you think about the two years, right, any rational person over the first two years would have said to donald trump, you know what, keeping control of both houses. yet instead trump constantly did things that made life more difficult for house republicans and for senate republicans in vulnerable seats. now there's a lot of senate republicans in vulnerable seats headed into 2020. what has mcconnell taken away from the experience of two years dealing with trump's political judgment and his selfishness as a president? >> goodness, that's a loaded question. i think mcconnell more than

anybody else and there's a big debate privately on public for why paul ryan got walloped for disagreeing with president trump and mitch mcconnell doesn't. so mitch mcconnell has been able to put a lot more distance between himself and president at times, though a lot of people think there should be a lot more. mcconnell's chief objective more than anything is winning. he tells us in the book after the kavanaugh episode, his one takeaway was he was a rock star because his poll numbers doubled, went through the roof. so if you look at his election, his chief priority is going to be getting republican senators elected period, the end. however he has to deal with donald trump to do that, he will do it and with almost no hesitation on any front. that's kind of my experience having observed him and batched

him these last years and talked to him over the last two. >> john heilemann, there are a lot of people waking up and reading how donald trump purged dhs and now steven mill ser goi -- miller is going to be running that agency, steven miller who frightens a lot of suburban republican voters as well. can you explain -- i know he came in from the senator's office, former attorney general -- >> sessions, yeah. >> yeah, sessions' office. can you explain why this man more than all others has stayed close to donald trump through the years and actually is the one member of the trump administration that actually seems to get more powerful by

the day? >> i think, joe, there's a deeper question, why is it that donald trump continues to pursue a policy on immigration, particularly at extreme manifestations, the commitment, the thought of closing the border, the president wants to revive that policy. once you understand what's motivating trump is the notion that as draconian as his policies have been on immigration, he thinks they're not draconian enough. once you understand that's what trump wants to pursue, whether he thinks this is the right thing for the country or defeat his base, that explains why stephen miller is so close to donald trump. he's perfectly happy to go back to family separation when the courts say it's not okay.

he's the guy who said famously at the beginning of the administration that the president's authority will not be challenged, right? so stephen mill ser the henchman, who is aligned with donald trump on the issues. when others, even when they've said no, that's again the law, immore, it's inhumane and they have opinion fired and the one left, stephen miller says yes, sir and salutes smartly when donald trump said put the kids in cages. >> this is a point of contention early on when you guys were still talking. what is the relationship or what is it about this young guy who says things like the president's powers are not to be questioned, who makes up what our government about, that he ends up being in charge of basically immigration

for our country. >> well, as john said, he aggressive with donald trump on the issue of immigration. he was storedily successful on the campaign trail. anybody reporting on the campaign trail would tell you he sort of had this mind meld with donald trump and started writing his speech eggs duries during tn and the loyalty went back and forth. i think the last time i had a conversation with donald trump, i was actually yelling -- >> yup. >> -- over stephen miller. t him saying the president's authority was not to be

questioned. it's the only time i've heard donald trump call and yell in defense of somebody else saying -- >> it's true. >> he actually said you're hurting this poor young kid and it's just not -- you're not being -- i can't believe he said this, but he said you're not being nice to this poor young kid, you're killing him every day. it was the first time i'd ever heard him talk about any staff member that day. of course the comeback was you need to tell the poor young kid he needs to read the constitution and stop saying the president's authority is not to be questioned, et cetera, et cetera. but gene robinson, there is undoubtedly and there has been a bond between donald trump and stephen miller and that has kept him at the center of things. both of them have a very absolutist view on illegal immigration and that is let us say right here an absolutist view that is shared by 35 to 40%

of americans and a growing number of people in europe frustrated at the high immigration levels coming into their countries. >> yeah. it's an absolutist view not just on illegal immigration, though, on immigration period. let's just be honest. they are almost soul mates on this issue, trump and miller, almost like father and son, and they both believe that there are too many latinos coming into this country and they want to stop it. you know, that the country is full, as the president repeatedly said last week. and it's, you know, they make a -- behind it is a sort of cultural argument. it's totally ahistorical in terms of the way this country has been since its founding. and i don't think that most americans or even the 35%, 40%

of the base fully share this xenophobic view on immigration, though some do. the important thing is that donald trump and stephen miller share it and this is the one thing this administration has been all over the map on so many issues has been really, really consistent on. and i just think this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. >> me, too. consider kirstjen nielsen was being run out of her job for being insufficiently tough on immigration. she was the public face of family separation. she was insufficiently tough. the wall street george reports that donald trump looked at stephen miller and said "you're in charge now." it doesn't get better from here, it gets darker from here. >> and there's such upheaval,

saying i'll be gone tomorrow. that's going to be rough. there are going to be a lot of areas that are wide open right now in the dhs that could cause a lot of folks concern and concern for our national security. anna palmer, tell us about "the hill to die on." is it republicans versus trump or actually capitol hill? >> i think what we tried to do was take a look after this campaign. you had donald trump come in as a change candidate in a change election, wanting to change washington, which is as everybody around this table and you both know, a place that is steeped in history and procedure and doesn't change very easily. i think we tried to look at it from the congressional perspective, the congressional leaders and say how do you work with donald trump? does he change things? is it upended or at the end of

the day is a referendum on his policies? at the end of the day republicans lost the house and now you have a new day with nancy pelosi as speaker. >> i read joe stockman's book, because i'm such an old man, today's my birthday -- >> oh, man! >> i remember reading david stockman's book, an incredible book, and he concludes revolutions in washington are not possible and perhaps should not be possible. we're tacking about trump like everybody else, barack obama, wanted to come to washington to change it and yet every day we see donald trump pushing too hard and federal judges like yesterday pushing back saying, no, you can't do that, bureaucrats saying, no, you can't do that. most presidents understand this, but talk about how that

ignorance in america's, you know, in our madisonian democracy has caused tensions between the president and the hill and how those frustrations are going to play themselves out over the next few years leading up to the election. >> two things. i would say revolutions do sweep into washington. there's another book called "the freshman" in which you play a central role that does track another revolutionary freshman class that in '94 changed a lot of things in d.c. >> yeah, but we got crushed in the end. >> so did republicans here. but we argue in the book, which we trace to the congressional leadership and members of the freedom caucus that he did change the way things were done. donald trump took a hands-off approach after getting crushed on health care and was able to get a tax bill through congress,

though republicans severely m miscalculated and it was not nearly as popular as he once thought it would be. number two, on federal judges, mitch mcconnell with hands off from donald trump has reshaped the federal judiciary for decades to come, has gotten two supreme court justices on the supreme court. so there has been ways that donald trump has changed governing. we tried to turn the camera lens around on people like mark meadows, jim jordan, paul ryan and mitch mcconnell to show how the system, long-time legislators would react to that. a note here, this is based on meetings we were allowed into and phone calls we were able to observe over two years. we had amazing access over a

two-year period. >> jake sherman, anna palmer, thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe," ever since the financial crisis oaf a decade ago, the big banks have been a top target for presidential candidates and capitol hill. tomorrow some of the nation's top ceos will testify to congress. but first, we sit down with bank of america's chief executive brian moynihan next on "morning joe." alright, i brought in ensure max protein... to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. (straining) i'll take that. (cheers) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. in two great flavors. takes more mathan just investment advice. from insurance to savings to retirement, it takes someone with experience and knowledge who can help me build a complete plan. brian, my certified financial planner™ professional,

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banks. joining us now, someone who will be speaking on that panel, the ceo of bank of america, brian moynihan. also with us for this conversation, msnbc host stephanie ruhle. it's good to have you on the show, brian. >> good to be here. >> thanks for being here. we'll ask you really tough questions to warm you up. >> there you go. >> let me start with a question everyone on the financial services panel would like to know, ten years later, we never saw it coming. could it happen again? and are banks, including bank of america, still too big to fail? >> if you think about ten years later, you have to go back and say what was the response and the response for the company and the response for the industry has been to do a couple of key things. one is to bring everybody under the regulatory tent.

most that caused trouble were outside the regulatory tent. we have $100 billion more in capital, $400 billion more in liquidity, sold 80 divisions. we're 20% smaller frankly. and then risks and controls, which gets sort of hard to explain. but, you know, the question is did the dodd-frank act and regulatory environment after that provide cures to the system and it did. we have a stronger system, but the stronger thing is they key test it every year and you can see the results. >> old on one second. let me ask you about also the committee you're going before tomorrow. obviously it's going to be far different than past financial services committees. maxine waters is a dear friend mine and she has been for some time, but again, i don't run a bank. has it been different dealing with this new class of freshmen,

maxine and a lot of other people on the financial services committee? >> chair waters has called and is the out a member on what she's interested in and the committee is interested in. people always say what do you think about this? we're public service vehicles. in other words, we have a special charter and we take it seriously. everyone has a right to ask us how we've done better, how we've reformed ourselves and we're happy to answer the questions. you'll hear tomorrow and i'm sure you've seen the testimony that we've improved how we help and transmit the u.s. economy are key items that we'll talk about. the environment isn't different in the sense that if you go back, add a couple before some different committees and other things. but the reality is since our team took over in 2010, we've done everything we can to run this company in a way that we're proud of and help the regulatory

environment in the country be proud of. >> steph, jump in. >> you have had record earnings last year for shareholders you performed, you paid the money back. but for those millions of americans who are part of the crisis, who got desperately hurt, who don't own your stock, who's responsible for them? those tied up in the subprime crisis, we learned whether they got swindled or didn't know what they were doing, they're locked out of the banking system. you have half the african-americans in the describe with a credit score under 620. right now they've got to go to pay day lenders and if you're going to a pay day lender, you can't get out of this vortex. we learned from jeremy diamond last week, this is two america. only half of it is worked out. >> what do we do as employers, secondly, how do we help people

with financial literacy and the third is the programs we have. one of the biggest programs is getting people back into homeownership. last week we expetended the program ten times, how to help people accumulate a down payment fast. better money habits has had billions of impressions, almost 900,000 people have actually used the services. when you watch what those people do who use the services and learn about it, what is my paycheck mean? what's a 401(k) do? those people have higher savings and balances. then you look at what we do as a company. we got rid of point of sale overdraft in 2009, way before the rules changed. across a decade, it's 30 billion

odd in fees we gave up but we've improved in effectiveness. we had 200,000 people, they have 500,000 or so family members behind them and we do great things for them. >> let me ask you the 30,000 foot question about the state of the economy. the unemployment is obviously very low, wages are ticking up but income inequality in this country is off the charts. how do you believe the country is operating right now and if you don't think it's going the way it ought to be, what's the role of the bank to intervene? >> a couple things. we have one of the best research platforms in the world, it's been one or two the last six or seven years. they have 2.2% for usdp growth down from 2.9% growth last year so it slowing down. the consumer spending is consistent with 2% growth. wages are growing in this country. so we see the u.s. economy being at leader of the world right now.

>> for sure but there are a lot of people who aren't feeling that. >> that comes back to do with what we do, we'll announce today we're moving our mim mudge wage. weep said we're going to raise that wage far in excess of any, they a would be tear. no raises for ten years now. so that wage is about $16.50 an hour. we'll move that by 2020 to $20. >> if you get a job of bank of america, you'll make $41,000. >> goes all the way up and down the ladder. >> can willie and i get a job there? we were trying to get goldman sachs to hire us but they were offering 35 a year.

really? >> i think it's a little higher than that but we'll see. we have to share the success with our teammates, as stephanie said. >> i love it. >> but it's comprehensive. to give you a sense on the health care side, a family of four coverage in our company for people is about -- they can get it for under $200 a month. the company, it's a $25,000 benefit the company provides on which they pay $2,000 for. think about that. we do that through helping to get screening and health care. those are the ways you run a company like ours, the 401(k) mandatory contributions and wages and raising salaries. we'll continue to drive that. then the question is opportunity and what they can do in our company. >> something that would help not just some of your lower paid employees, but people who are clients of bank america consumers, is lowering

transaction costs. you would still make a ton of money if you said, all right, overdraft fees you could lower overdraft fees. if you actually look to pay a little more for deposits and not charge so much for the overdraft, people could live a more robust life. those are people trying to make ends meet. >> on overdrafts, we've had a steady progression. in 2010 we announced no point of sale overdraft. so if i went to starbucks and got another place and overdrafted, it was $35. so reeliminated the ability to do that and then what we did is -- wellin of the coordinations is we started our, five years ago. the fdic brought up safe

accounts. the big initiative we made is now we can move into that much more easily. we now have 700, almost 800,000 people who have an account they can't overdraft. and the be question. the challenge is what do you do with people to don't get direct deposits? so $3,000 a month really qualifies a lot of people. we're working on programs to figure out how we can get them credit for direct deposit and get them to free accounts. that's our goal. we'd like to eliminate jove drafts but we're guiding them there. that's what we try to do. >> brian moynihan, we'll be watching you testify tomorrow. the big news today, though, is your news of raising minimum

wage to 20. i think that's fantastic. people need to be able to live on a minimum wage. that's a big move. thank you very much. and stephanie ruhle, we'll see you coming up at 9 a.m. right after "morning joe." thank you for joining us for this. >> i love that, good business right there. >> on? tester just ahead. and as we go to break -- >> hello, i'm maria kondo. >> that's netflix sensation marie kondo who is doing what she does best, helping people talk tackle the clutter that's holding you back. in a real way, that's what we do with "know your value." our theme this week, maximizing your money.

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willie, of course mike barnicle couldn't be with us during that segment because, as was the case during of course the financial crisis, we had to continually put below "gets his allowance from his wife who works at bank of america." >> which is true. >> mike is using his allowance today and going out to the ballpark, fenway. willie, we have had the absolute most brutal start, 3 -8. yankees, you guys are just on fire compared to us. it's been a strange start to the season, especially if you do what we do and only look at teams that are east of the hudson. >> baseball is going to kill you if you live game by game because

there are 162 of them, as mike barnicle would remind us if he were here and hadn't bailed on us for opening day up at fenway. the cubs are struggling a little bit. but, man, we're like eight, ten, 11 games into the season. the yankees turned it around with help from the orioles over the weekend. as always with the yankees, the question will be pitching. severino is back in new york getting his shoulder looked at. if the yankees can pitch a little, they'll be okay. as you always say, it's the tampa bay rays' world and we're just living in it. >> they've got a great manager. they've actually got a great team. doesn't fall asleep on the rays. they a lot better. >> no way. >> john, you're from l.a., obviously follow the dodgers pretty closely. i had a friend who was a

dodgers' fan last year and they had a terrible first half and he'd call whining all the times and i was like baseball is game of numbers, the numbers always catch up to you and that is how you feel unless a lot of injuries hit you. bad start for the cubs, bad start for the red sox but, boy, the seattle mariners, on fire! >> i'm looking at the stand beings right now. the dodgers are 8-2. the seattle mariners are on fire. they're at 9-2. you do have two teams performing worse right now than the boston red sox, one is the kansas city royals and of course the worst team in baseball right now, i happen to be heading there this afternoon, the cincinnati reds, dwelling at 1-8. as bad as things are right now in beantown, it could be worse for you if you were in cincinnati. >> by the way, let's just say bryce harper off, willie, to a really good start in

philadelphia. he looked at the first pitch that was thrown to him all season, it was a called strike and the philadelphia fans started booing and throwing bottles at him. >> welcome to philly, bryce. >> welcome to philly, baby. by the way, when they asked him if he's going to philadelphia, he said i don't think so, not unless you get rid of half their fans. but the guy is performing under pressure. ten games in but, still, they're happy they have bryce harper right now. >> the angels are having a tough start but mike trout offer that $330 million contract, he's having a great year already as well. >> we were going past -- jack and i were just going past baseball games on saturday. we we said oh, trout's up, let's see what happens. boom, grand slam. we have to go to break.

>> yes, we do. >> is mike trout possibly the greatest player of let's just say the first 20 years of the 21 century? >> yes. and if he continues on this trajectory, remember he's still young, if he continues and plays like this for ten more years, he'll be the best baseball player to ever walk the earth. i know that sounds crazy but he's close now. >> who knows what will happen but no doubt best position player in baseball over the last ten years. no question. >> and mika does say, if you look at his war, one of the best players of all time at least through now, you've got babe ruth of course, ted williams, extraordinary hitter, hank aaron, willie mays, i mean ty cobb, but if you've got a top-ten list, you got to put trout right now in the top ten. that's what mika says. >> no, it's not. >> i agree. >> did you just say war with mika? you did, didn't you?

that was very strong. >> she obsesses -- by the way, you go into our kitchen and most people have recipes and here's the kids' events. mika's a sab aer metrics freak. it's like this formula, like you're going into physics class. >> it like "goodwill hunting." >> she's like oh, i'm just analyzing the diamondbacks seven through nine hitters. >> just makes more sense. yup, that's where i spend all my time, in the kitchen. >> please. >> and senator jon tester is standing by and joins the conversation next on "morning joe." if you have moderate to severe psoriasis,

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the senate appropriations committee and ranking member of the homeland security subcommittee, democrat jon tester of montana. he has a new op-ed in the "billings gazette" entitled "what i saw at the southern border." it's good to have you on the show this morning. >> senator, we'll get to that in a second but we've been talking baseball. if you're from montana, are you rockies fans? who do most of your constituents root for in baseball? >> from the days -- old days of cable, they probably route fot atlanta and chicago but i'm an expos fan. >> good for you, man. i have one of those mod expo caps. those things are awesome. >> from the days of ellis valentine and rusty and the crew, it was baseball night in canada. i used to pick them up every wednesday night out of left

bridge. i became a great expos fan and now i guess i'm a nationals fan. >> that is awesome. those are some of my favorite memories, sitting around wherever my family moved and listening to wsb and following the braves over the radio. that's just sort of magic when you're growing up as a kid. let's talk about, though, some children that don't have quite as good of an upbringing, quite as -- and won't have as good of memories as we did and that is of course the kids that are being treated horrendously across the border and have been locked in cages, separated from their parents. tell us, what did you see when you went down to the border and what is the current state of that humanitarian crisis? >> well, when we first saw the processing center where they're taking in the folks that cross the border to apply for asylum, it's not the best of conditions. but i'll be honest with you, you can put more buildings up, but

the bottom line is there's a ton of folks coming across the border, families in particular and they're being held until they get processed. we got to speed that processing up the best we can that don't h right papers for asylum. the other thing that's going on down there right now is, of course, the wall being built on a levee, sometimes miles away from the rio grande river. and i think that this administration really needs to take another look at the wall and say will it do anything for immigration? it is not. the land on the south side of the wall is still u.s. land. folks are still going to come across. it won't solve the problem. it's a many facetted problem down the border. but the bottom line is that if we can work together, congress and we have before and we can again, and the administration can give us a plan on where they want to go i think we can come up with some absolutions.

>> snarkenator, we can give you where the administration wants to go based on the departure of kirstjen nielsen and the rise of steven miller pushing the policy of immigration. they are talking about return to family separation. they want the border wall. that's core to the president's agenda. what's your reaction to the basic cleaning out of the department of homeland security and what impact do you think it may have on our immigration policy? >> well, i got a couple of thing. first of all, it creates more turmoil and, quite frankly it appears to me that the president is using this as a political tool for the next election when, in fact, said humanitarian crisis and in fact we need to work together to solve it. the folks that he shipped out the door via tweet this weekend which i think is the way he does it most of the time i think kind of shows the president's style. bring the folks in. tell them what's going on. . but don't do it via tweet.

when you look at the southern border this problem can be fixed or you can play politics with it. i think the president is hell been on playing politics with it. we got push factors in places like guatemala and honduras and go down and save, very focused food aid to those countries. i can't imagine a mother and her son or daughter wants to take a three or four week trek through mexico to get to the southern border. let's do what we can do to keep them in their home countries. instead the president cuts tide these countries. doing the opposite of what needs to be to be done. just shows the immigration policy in this country is in turmoil. >> i want to shift the conversation to presidential politics. we were talking about fundraising totals and this big giant democratic field that's growing every day it seem like. you're an lebed democrat in the state of montana, statewide. you have a governor there whose a democrat, been elected statewide a couple of times

being i believe. i'm cures ious when you think at your very red state that donald trump won in 2016 but you two democrats managed to win there. when you look at this field of democrats running, do you see a lot of folks in that field who could be competitive in your state beyond the possibility of your governor who might get in the race? >> look, i still think it's a long ways away from the election. you got to find somebody that will speak to tissues in rural america. we got poverty in rural america. we got tariffs gilling family farm agriculture. we have infrastructure needs in rural america. if we can find a candidate that can speak to the challenges in rural areas, housing, water infrastructure, the list goes on and on, then i think people -- look, montana is a red state. but montana is also a vote for people that will best represent them and that's exactly what they've done with the governor and me. that's what we do every day.

so the person that can connect with rural america is going to the ones that i think rural herk will support, whether democrat or republican or independent. >> all right senator john tester, thank you very much. and we have more ahead on the president gutting the department of homeland security. plus, hollywood actress felicity huffman and a dozen other parents agree to plead guilty in the far reaching college admissions scandal. we'll talk about what kind of consequences these parents might face. and the polls are open in israel as prime minister benjamin netanyahu seeks a record fifth term despite facing corruption allegations and as we go to break we want to mention that today marks 80 years since one of the most important musical events of the 20th century occurred on the national mall in front of the lincoln memorial. marion anderson took to the stage and began to sing "my

country 'tis of three." she was invited to sing by howard university. because of her popularity the university needed to find a venue large enough to accommodate the crowds. and constitutional hall was such a place. however, the daughters of the american revolution who owned the hall refused to let her use it because as one anderson biographer notes she was black and there was a white artist only clause printed in every contract issued by the dar. first lady eleanor roosevelt a member of the dar was outraged by the decision and promptly quit the organization. the lincoln memorial was suggested as an alternative venue and the rest was history. anderson's story is captured in a new documentary entitled "once in 100 years the life and legacy

of marion anderson" which chronicles her life. "morning joe" is back in three minutes. welcome to fowler, indiana. one of the windiest places in america. and home to three bp wind farms. in the off-chance the wind ever stops blowing here... the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed. or... not. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing.

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>> unquestioned military strength. >> the powers of the president will not be questioned. >> president of the united states is correct 100%. >> the powers of the president will not be questioned. >> will not be questioned. >> the power of the president will not be questioned. the power of the president will not be questioned. remember that. that was actually real. that happened. steven miller said that. and steven miller is apparently being rewarded for this. word is donald trump has put him in charge of immigration. good morning and welcome to "morning joe". it is tuesday, april 9th. along with joe, willie and me we have national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc john heilema heilemann. we also have with us nbc news national political reporter heidi przybyla. and pulitzer prize winning

columnist and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. we also have a birthday boy, willie, this morning. it's not you. it's joe. >> national holiday. >> happy birthday, joe. >> happy birthday, joe. >> you should be off today. >> big win for uva. >> virginia, people didn't stay up late up enough. it was a good game. it was a defensive game but overtime 85-77, virginia beat texas tech. virginia had 12 seconds in regulation left to tie the game. really good game. you think back to just over a year ago when virginia was the number one seed and for the first time in the history of a tournament a loss to 16 seed. a year later is the national

champion. >> that's really big news. it seems like, mika, you have so many friends and relatives that went to uva. >> yep. well, anyhow i'm a uva family. >> willie, i was thinking about going to uva. then they got my application. >> just hard numbers prevented that? >> yeah. i kept telling them that i had some objective qualities. >> he tried to play the extracurricular card and didn't quite work. snook in the garage band somehow didn't take me to a thomas jefferson cool. >> there's a lot happening this morning including new developments in the presidential race. there's another one. congressman eric swalwell jumps in as senator amy klobuchar

stakes out her ground in the fundraising fight. the contenders are raising million but it's still peanuts compared to what the democrats brought in a few years back. and speaking of campaigns, benjamin netanyahu is fighting for another term as israel's prime minister and president trump is surely watching that race play out. we'll talk about that. but we begin with president trump seemingly gutting the department of homeland security in apparently purging allies of his ex-chief of staff and first dhs secretary john kelley. yesterday the white house announced that the director of the secret service, retired marine major general randolph alice is out and in a statement alice disputed that he had been fire. quote, i assure you that this is not the case. and, in fact, of told weeks ago by the administration that transitions in leadership should be expected across dhs. it is my sincere regret that i

was not able to address the workforce prior to this announcement. he was fired. the "new york times" reports that trump who talks with members of his own secret service detail had soured on alice a while ago convinced that as an outsider he was not popular among the agents. the president even made fun of the director's looks, calling him dumbo because of his ears. what is wrong with this guy? >> the thing is, willie, i mean -- >> there's not going to be any left. how many openings are there in this administration? this is crazy. >> give me the pregnant pause here. who is donald trump to make fun of people's looks? it's like when he was calling -- >> here we go. >> no. it was when he was calling somebody pencil neck. have you seen his neck lately? like a bull frog when he's talking. who is donald trump to make fun

of people's looks? i know he thinks he's a svelte 239 because dr. ronnie told him so. and the childish insults continue, apparently. this guy, this guy who i suspect if any doctor had to look at him and actually weighed him and tell him the truth this guy would be obese or close to being morbidly obese. this guy is calling jerrold nadler fat jerry according to reports last night. get out of fifth grade. >> we're used to insults. in this case when you talk about who is calling dumbo this is the director of the secret service whose job qualifications include taking a bullet for the president of the united states. that comes with the job secret service. bizarre. we'll dig into this. these are all john kelley people.

steven miller the adviser to the president is running immigration policy. anything that had anything to do with general john kelley the former chief of staff is being run out. >> john heilemann, this is part of a much bigger plan for donald trump an something that they've talked about, they being donald trump and jared kushner and people around him for a long time. there's a suspicion of professionals, suspicion of state department professionals, bureaucratic professionals and when you ask them well then who is going run it? we are. we'll run it from here. it's more of the same. now it looks like steven miller may be, tell me, is that what the future looks like? is it steven miller running dhs from the white house >> that seems to be the case. there's a suspicion of professionals and suspicion of people who are career government servant, people with actual policy expertise, people who understand how the government

works. there's a more profound thing here. part of what he's upset about is he has appointees in place who heaven forbid think there's a thing called the rule of law. so the president tells the secretary of homeland security he wants to close the southern border or implement policies that are just on their face illegal and he's told by his appointees and others presumably in the professional core that he can't do certain things and the president's reaction to that is to fire them. obviously, the prospect of steven miller having any more authority than he already has is terrifying to a lot of people but i do think it goes to a deeper thing, even the fifth grade name calling, deeper than suspicion of who knows thing it's a lack of respect for the way the government is supposed to work, lack of respect for institution arrangement and lack of respect for basic rule of law. >> the vacancies at the dhs have top lawmakers expressing their

worry about disorganization at the department. democratic senator dianne feinstein, the ranking member of the judiciary committee said the purge of senior leadership at the dhs is unprecedented and a threat to our national security. that's at least ten top positions filled by someone in an acting capacity. by the way, we're just talking about dhs here. there's a bigger conversation to have about how this government is being run. but here is republican chairman of the senate homeland security committee ron johnson followed by analysis by nbc's justice correspondent pete williams who has covered the department of homeland security since its inception. >> i'm concerned. i'm concerned of a growing void of leadership within the department of homeland security and this is a department that's charged with really trying to grapple with some of the most significant challenges facing this nation. i'll be talking to the cpb commissioner who is the acting secretary and talk about what's

happening inside the department and how we will fill these leadership positions. >> without a leader, without a deputy secretary, without a head of anarchy without a head of i.c.e., with no one in charge of science and technology branch, this is the least well organized that the department of homeland security has been since it was stood up. and the other thing is this, andrea, this whole immigration thing has so totally overshadowed what was normal and still is part of department homeland security's mission. i told my colleagues and julia when she was at reuters and i would often see her at homeland security briefings i used to remember when we used to talk about terrorism at homeland security. now all we talk about is immigration. >> that's a great irony, of course, gene, that donald trump who campaigned claiming that he was such a fierce opponent of islamic radicalism is out now

actually turned this department away from its core mission and it is now a department that its new goal is to chase shadows along the southern border. >> that's exactly right. this whole purge, i think, is about the one policy that's been a pretty consistent policy of this administration and this president, which is the country is full. right? we're no long ear nation of immigrants. we're filled up. we don't want you. your tired, huddled masses, stay away. get lost. beat it. i mean, look, this president, this president wants to restart the cruellest policy he's enacted so far of child separations for which people really should go jail. he wants, he's been telling again reports that he's told border agents when he's talked

to them in person, you know, don't listen to the don't follow the law. tell asylum seekers to say away. this is steven miller's vision of america and his vision is it's closed. >> heidi, this whole idea of starting the child separation policy again is certainly claimed by kirstjen nielsen and those around her as she departs that this is something that she was fighting against over the past several months. we don't know whether this is true or not, whether it's been for somebody on their way out, but one thing that is not disputable is that donald trump is not the least bit chastened by the harsh reaction which cost him a lot of suburban voters and educated women by the reaction to separating infantes from their mothers at the border and

many still separated today. >> well the courts have ruled against that, joe, and she probably pointed that out to him among other things. but with this president it's unclear whether that is going to stop him. what is clear is that this is by all accounts an indication that he's going to go in a tougher direction. so at this hour we're trying to determine as reporters what that means going in a tougher direction given what we've already seen, given that the courts ruled against him. it could mean a few things. it could mean going ahead and closing those ports of entry. we heard talk about him wanting to basically meter asylum claims, in other words kind of slow down the number of people who can actually apply for asylum. in addition to closing those ports, ending birth right citizenship. that's another one out there, joe, that's been very controversial but is back in the background that could come to the fore depending who he

empowers. this will definitely go in a tougher direction. the child separation policy, expect additional courts to try to step in and stop that. but steven miller is definitely rey re-empowered here. >> still ahead on morning joe while real student athletes were on the court last night the parent of pretend student athletes were in court facing charges of cheating their kids way into school. we'll talk about that just ahead but first let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning. what's about to happen in the plains is just plain old cruel. it was 80 degrees. it was 70 in some spots yesterday. and now this map is full with winter warnings, blizzard warnings. it's just going get ugly. we have blizzard warnings from minnesota to south dakota to nebraska. winter storm warnings from colorado to utah. through areas of wyoming and montana too. this isn't like your average

snowfall. in some areas this is the biggest snowstorm of the winter. we're looking at areas here where we see this pink shading that's 24 inches of snow in areas of south dakota. minneapolis could get a foot of snow. so i mean this will be some serious stuff. along with it blizzard conditions and likely shut interstate 90 at times as we go throughout your thursday. even milwaukee northward could get a little bit of snow and even portions of northern michigan. the other story is the winds. starting with us today. not just with the snow. we're going see winds in the plains and we're very concerned with the wildfire danger. albuquerque, el paso gusts to 60. lubbock could hit gusts up to 70 miles per hour. brush fires if they do form will spread and moving rapidly. that's happening today into tomorrow. the other weather story, we're still soggy in many areas of the southeast. down here in south florida some wet weather. this afternoon 9 million at risk for severe storms especially through the carolinas and a portion of georgia which

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you know, willie, part of my problem with uva why they wouldn't accept me, i didn't realize at the time that i could have somebody else take my s.a.t. score, my s.a.t. test for me or my a.c.t. test for me. >> you were a hell of a rower down in pensacola. >> see, that's the thing. i was on my -- i could have been on the volleyball team. could have been on the bobsled, the jamaican bobsled team if only my parents had said hey joe

is the front guy -- >> the front guy is what they indicate. >> i think -- i will say that's one of the shocks of this college cheating -- >> varsity blues. >> varsity blues things. how much -- again, i never knew this. but just how -- like being on a sports team sailing. playing soccer. i mean i knew that was important but for the best schools in america, i had always been told they don't care about that, they will let you in school but you still have to pay and not much of a big deal. no, it's a huge deal. too huge of a deal. >> without mentioning names in high school there were kids who got into ivy league schools and it was because he or she played lacrosse or field hockey. it definitely gives you and edge. you're talking about this story

13 wealthy parents, one college coach have now agreed to plead guilty in a far reaching college admission scandal according to the department of justice. they are accused of paying thousands of dollars in bribes to the scheme's organizer to help their children cheat on college entrance exams and to falsify athletic records to secure admission to elite schools. court records note after felicity huffman will plead guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and services mail fraud. the sentence carries 20 years but prosecutors will recommend less time in return for her plea. she's accused of paying $15,000 for her daughter to get extra time on the s.a.t. test and for a proctor to later correct her answers. huffman said she accepts full responsibility for her actions and apologized in part to the students who work hard every day to get into college and to their parents who make tremendous

sacrifices to support their children and do so honestly. meanwhile all the defendants who improperly took tax deductions for the bribe payments have agreed to work with the irs to payback tax. 50 people have been charged. more parents are expected to plead guilty later this week. joining us now is msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. danny, good to see you. let's talk about felicity huffman first. she's one of 14 people pleading guilty yesterday. are you surprised the pleas came in this quickly, number one and number two, what's likelihood she and other will go to jail? >> not surprised. these are the kinds of defendants who plead guilty and often. the reality is people like felicity huffman just don't have the stomach like many of us for a protracted federal trial that will drag out all of their dirty laundry and just make this an awful experience. these are exactly the kind of defendants who seek a plea agreement as early as they

possibly can. they will benefit it from. to answer your second question. felicity huffman is likely to get a straight probation sentence. that means no incarceration. we talked earlier about the statutory maximum. it's 20 years. that's a horrible predictor of the actual sentence somebody like huffman will get. she has no prior criminal history and she agreed to plea guilty. her sentencing guideline range is in the four to ten month category. even in that category the guidelines are only advisory. statistically courts will sentence below the guidelines where defendants like this rush to the courtroom to plead guilty. >> danny, what about some of the other parents? i know, i guess felicity huffman is charged with paying $15,000 to impact her daughter's standardized testing score. there are other parents, i think it's lori loughlin she and her husband paid $500,000 per child

and there's picture of the kids pretending to be crew members of the crew team. is that potentially prison time penalty or will they be able to walk without facing jail time? >> the biggest factor in the fraud sentencing guidelines is the amount of loss or gain. the thing that makes this case strange because what exactly z dollar amount lost and gained? were the college defrauded? absolutely. what did the parents, consumers of this illegal product gain in terms of dollar amount? the government if they plead guilty is going to set that range. but as you can see even felicity huffman has the opportunity to make an argument, the only opportunity she's allowed in that plea agreement is essentially to make an argument that the loss or gain, the loss to the victim or gain to the defendant was lower than the government actually says it is. but if it's a high dollar amount that loss or gain, that's the single biggest driver in

sentences when it comes to the fraud guidelines. that can launch the defendant into some real prison time. >> coming up president trump the likes believe he's so popular in israel he could be elected prime minister. but it's actually benjamin netanyahu on the ballot and he's fighting for i had political life. we'll go to tel aviv for the latest next on "morning joe". latest next on "morning joe" who see things others can't.

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we got get to the elections in israel. nbc chief news global correspondent bill neely is standing by with the very latest there. bill? >> reporter: good morning. mika, voting has begun and there really is just one item, if you like, that this election is all about. it's about benjamin netanyahu. it's a referendum on him. amazingly this man has been israel's leader for about a fifth of the country's history. many people, though, are sick and tired of him. he's been -- he's facing allegations of corruption. he may well be indicted on those allegations. but he's got a trump card in his

back pocket, literally president trump. trump is very popular in israel and benjamin netanyahu has been playing on that. the two of them are together on benjamin netanyahu's election posters and election videos and, of course, president trump has been bearing gifts to mr. netanyahu, moving the u.s. embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem. recognizing israeli sovereignty over the golan heights and just yesterday designating iran's revolutionary guard as a terrorist organization. all of these very helpful to netanyahu and many israelis worried that they simply don't want to give up this unique and rather generous relationship for israel. guys? >> that it is. nbc's bill neely in israel. we'll be watching this and hope to hear back from you. thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe" the shake up in leadership isn't the only big headline this morning involving the secret

service. there's also that story out of mar-a-lago involving a chinese national caught with thumb drives one of which an american agent loaded inside a government computer. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming right back i'm mildly obsessed with numbers.

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according to the "new york times" the president called kirstjen nielsen at home early in the morning to demand that she take action to stop migrants from entering the country. >> wow. trump would call her early in the morning just to yell about the border? you know how horrible that must have been? think about it. we're traumatized by trump's tweets at 5:00 a.m. imagine if the tweets came into your bedroom every morning. hey caravans of rapists and we

love crime. >> we have to get rid of judges. we have the stupidest thing. they have to get rid of the whole asylum system because it doesn't work and frankly we should get rid of judges. >> why do you want to get rid of judges? is it because they keep putting everyone who works for you in jail >> wow. so much of joking is true. joining us now, investigative reporter for "the washington post," msnbc contributor carol lennick. rod rater o o or -- robert kos. and fernando. we have a throat discuss including president trump handing the reigns of his immigration strategy to hard-liner steven miller. attorney general william barr set to appear before lawmakers in less than an hour for the first time since releasing his

summary of robert mueller's russian report. and another democrat now in the 2020 race. bob kosta we'll start with you. steven miller getting more power on the issue of immigration but also a lot of vacancies or acting people in charge who don't really have a firm hold on their jobs. i'm wondering, what kind of movement potentially that could create in terms of policy, and also national security implications. >> mika, in conversations with white house officials and top trump advisors they say steven miller's role is important but it should not be overstated. that the president's purge at the department of homeland security is also about president trump's own power. about him asserting his executive authority over these agencies, over his policy. because he's frustrated not only with the migrant surge, but with other officials in the

administration telling him no. so they expect in the coming weeks this policy to not only be hard-line but to have the president's fingerprints on everything. directing policy. along with steven miller but really the president himself at the fore. >> carol, we've got this, the head of secret service, this purge of leadership in the administration. first of all, there are a lot of positions in the state department and major cabinet positions that were never filled. so what are we left with moving forward, and what does it tell you when the head of secret service goes? >> you know, it's so interesting about this and i couldn't agree with bob more, it's the president's hand here as much as steven miller's. what's worrisome we all remember when the defendant homeland security was created after 9/11. its primary role was to try to protect the homeland from a series of assaults and the

president is treating it like a box of chocolates where he can exchange the chocolates really quickly on the fly but it's an enormous agency and there was a lot of worry about whether or not this huge bureaucracy was going to be able to work effectively. this kind of shakeup is very threatening to the stability of a host of agencies that have nothing to do with immigration. fema's director left last year and hasn't been replaced. the secret service has nothing to do with immigration but the president's peak in anger related to immigration is related to his departure. everyone associated with john kelley and pushed for jobs inside dhs seem to have a target on their back. frankly, one of the biggest problems analysts say about this shakeup is it doesn't solve the thing that the president is angry about. he doesn't like the answers that he's getting back which is that

the migrant surge can't be solved on a dime. it can't be solved by actions that courts reject and can't be solved by separation of children at the border which voters find largely detestable and inhumane. the president doesn't like these answers. he's obviously looking at 2020. what is he going to say that he has accomplished? it's worrisome to many people in the field about whether or not this shakeup is going to have anything to show for it either. >> carol, the front page piece of the "washington post" that you co-author, you have a quote from a current dhs official who says they are decapitateding the entire department, talking about the white house. how is this playing inside homeland security and how concerned are they about their ability to do their jobs? when you go down the list from the secretary to the deputy secretary to i.c.e. to the inspector general now down to the director of the secret service, have either acting seats or nobody at all.

>> yes. that was actually a worrisome thing before they got a call saying today is your last day. that was the case a week ago. there was a person who was responsible for a huge division and acting as deputy and that person is gone or on her way out. remember, again, i'm thinking long term about dhs and how many worries there were in the bush administration about whether or not this bureaucracy could function well. it rivals only the defense department in size. could it work properly? and now having so many people out of the chairs, it almost makes it impossible. inside the agency, to your question, willie, there's great consternation. just the secret service alone sway tiny, tiny unit of dhs,

they've had four directors since i've been covering them and that wasn't that long. how do you have consistency? how do you have message? how do you have a philosophy that sustains the workforce and guides them towards, you know, good government? >> bob kosta, i want to come back to you, i want to ask you more what trump is thinking in how he sees this. the large picture here at least on the immigration thing is that we take all this together from kirstjen nielsen to other stuff going on, the steven miller elevation. trump wants to go even harder on immigration. he wants potentially to resurrect the separation family policy. he's talked about closing the border. all of that. again the miller, elevation of miller. there are a couple of different things in play. one has do with trump's political analysis of this issue. another is where trump's heart is and what he thinks is the right policy.

what he believes. talk a little about the various motivation that he has. trump is doing this, in your judgment, based on your reporting why? >> john, you asked how does the president see this and that's a key word. "see." when you talk to white house officials you hear that the president is watching television and he's watching specifically lou dobbs show on fox business and sean hannity an fox news. if you've been watching lou dobbs and others and listening to talk radio in recent weeks they have been merciless in going after department of homeland security and secretary kirstjen nielsen saying the migrant surge is not being properly addressed. this more than anything the president's confidant's has fueled the president's own analysis of the situation that his base could be in peril on 2020 on his signature issue unless he takes dramatic issue. this is not palace intrigue with steven miller orchestrating a

coup at dhs. this is the president motivated by watching television and in meetings being told no to take this kind of action. >> he's worried about, you said it, his base might be in peril. this is more about political calculation driving this than his own animated views about what the right policy outcome is or his own actual fear about the migrant surge the threat is to america. >> he always talks about his fear about the security threat. politically, john, white house advisors inside and outside say when he looks at the map, michigan, ohio, wisconsin, pennsylvania, already difficult after 2018, he believes immigration is the key to re-election in many respects. to make sure those voters know he is in their words protecting them from outsiders on economic issues and that comes down immigration. so if the migrant surge don't unfold as it is there's a

concern inside of the president's inner circle that this thing could all unspool ahead of 2020 those voters need to come out and they won come out. >> wow. sounds like hatred to win elections. inferior unanimous do, let's talk about the politics of this. there's a lot of 2020 candidates on the democratic side lining up. and if this is the president's strategy moving forward which is what it appears to be, and doish him noting that a certain form of real estatism seemed to wo-- racism worked for his base. what's the democratic response and who is the best person to hold that message? >> well, i think what we're witnessing here is an extension, of course, of that famous down the stairs speech where trump declared that mexican immigrants were rapists. it started, his campaign started with that premise and has

advanced to this and i hope we can use the right terminology. the people at the border are not immigrants, they are refugees until someone in our system if there's anybody left to ascertain it determines they don't qualify for asylum. that's basically what's happening. from the democratic side what i would say is anybody could be the right messenger. let's remember there are vast supermajority of americans who agree immigration is positive for the united states, immigrants are good for our society and we have the economic arguments that many economists made this is a very important part of the economic growth machinery in the united states. when we look at the democrats, frankly, from my perspective and a lot of democrats perspective it doesn't matter which one of them at the end of the day of course it does and the person will decide who that candidate will be. all of them will have to speak about this in a way that makes sense not just for latinos and immigrants but for whole of society. this is about unifying people, bringing people together and there are many candidates who

are particularly positive and powerful enough to make that argument and bring some of those people. >> there's a lot of misinformation put out by the trump administration about the immigration problem, about us being full here in the united states of america. you know, how to clarify and also remind people of exactly what goes on at the border and what we're about because it really does seem that there's a school of thought the president is tapping into that's based on misinformation. how does a democrat fight that running for president? >> well, look, i think over the next 18 months or so until the election there will be many opportune for these candidates to stand out and really create a compelling narrative about immigration, about the border, and that's going happening on a natural basis. i think this is clearly a pivot in our nation's history. i think this is a very critical moment where we're seeing many, many signs of frankly a

president who may not have the best interests of the republic at heart. so i think these candidates will step up at the right moment. >> willie? >> bob kosta, different topic here. i want to ask you about less than an hour from now the attorney general william barr will be on capitol hill before a house appropriations subcommittee,s s on stento tal budget. but we expect democrats to grill him about the four page letter he sent out. what do you expect to see? >> they will have many questions for the attorney general. listen closely how he talks about executive power. that is something he under scored in i had memo before he beca became attorney general. you can't have obstruction of justice unless it meets a high threshold. he talked about executive power and protecting executive power democrats may walk away and say

they will see many redactions in this report and that's what it all comes down to. how much does the attorney general decide to cake out of this approximately 400-page report. >> all right, robert kosta, carol lennick and fernando thank you very much all fork on the show this morning. still ahead -- >> in america, justice has not been applied equally for all. and so let's talk about that. and let's speak truth that in the last two years it has gotten even worse. when black americans are more than twice as likely to live in poverty in this country. instead of lifting up working families, this administration gave a tax cut to the top 1% and the biggest corporations of this country. those folks don't need that money. >> reforming america's criminal justice system could be a big issue in the 2020 election. that conversation is next on

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this is an issue that is front and center already in the 2020 campaign in a way i don't think it's been before given the candidates that we have and their backgrounds as prosecutors. >> we have two prosecutors running for the democratic nomination and their records along with joe biden's record from when he was a senator and vice president are coming up, i think for reevaluation in a moment where there is an appetite for more criminal justice reform than any of those people did when they were in office. there are questions about their records. >> how did we get to that new appetite? politics used to be if you were tough on crime, that was a good thing. lock them up and throw away the key. we have moved away from that in democratic politics for now. >> i would argue bipartisan interest and reform. congress just passed it. a lot of excitement. i think that 2.2 million people

in prison, a number that is five times as large as it was in the 1970s. that number shocks a lot of people. what is the return on investment on all of this money we're spending on prison if people just keep coming back. it's a revolving door. >> we have heard for generations about the crack cocaine disparity in sentencing. it appears now that some of these things are changing. what is being done to change the dynamic of mass incarceration in this country? >> for many of us protesting even in the 90s when they had the crime bill which biden and bernie sanders voted for and

others were advocating have now seen it come the other way because of what she is saying. families have been torn down. things that were considered marginal or mainstream. so when you see former prosecutors, like klobachar and kamala harris standing out and advocate some of the things that we have been saying when it started, it's because i think the chickens have come home to roost because people have -- you have very few families in black america that this has not touched in a disproportionate way. so i think emily's book is timely and needed and for some of us, we feel like we tried to tell y'all this could happen. >> i want to ask you a question, new york times story here about gavin newsome, that pushed

capital punishment. in my career it's been a defining issue on crime and democrats, almost every one, including barrack obama ended up being pro or accepting of capital punishment, it's been tox toxic in the last 30 years. talk about how that changed. talk about that aspect of how it touches on your book and the politics of it. >> there's no realizations about the death penalty is changing the debate. one is how racially unfair it is. black people are subject to the death penalty. that there's a difference in supply based on the race of the victim. the person that was killed and when you look at that research, it's hard to see how we can fairly apply the death penalty in this country. so there's the death penalty in theory and the question of whether someone might be subject to capital punishment and a real

fear about executing a innocent person. that's a real concern. >> what have you seen since the 90s? what have you seen practically? there is some bipartisan agreement on changes that need to happen. what's happening right now as a practical matter in washington changing this dynamic? >> practically you're seeing prosecutors that are now coming in that are taking a different position. you have some prosecutors that are now openly going the other way. i also think that when he started commuting sentencing and going the other way, to be fair let's remember when the crack cocaine epidemic happened, there were black politicians that were telling clinton and biden to do more about it. lock them up. members of the black caucus was

opposing what i was doing. so i think the temperature change and i think we're seeing a new generation come in not in terms of just age but thought saying this does not work and we could get it wrong. i remember a young man was executed in texas and he wanted me and others at his execution and that haunted me for years just the thought of this young man taking his last breath saying keep on marching, y'all keep going and he died and i felt he was an innocent man, gary graham. you can get it wrong and we had to come to terms with that as a country. >> we have gotten it wrong almost certainly. >> this is all apart of the 20 conversation. that's why the book is so timely. it's called charged. the new movement to transform prosecution and end mass incarcerati incarceration. congratulations. good to see you. >> thank you. >> william barr testifying before congress in just about 30

minutes we'll be following that live here on msnbc all day. president trump is meeting wit wiwit wiwit with egypt's president at the white house. and maybe another democratic 2020 candidate to announce. we'll see. there's a lot of them. that does it for us this morning. stephanie picks up the coverage right now. >> thank you so much, mika. hi there, a lot to cover this morning. here we go. in just minutes from now, attorney general william barr will face lawmakers for the first time since he was given the mueller report. the attorney general expected to face a bar rrage of questions or the russia administration as well as the administration's decision not to defend it in court. >> president trump continues his purge of the entire homeland security department. more personnel including the head of the