that does it for our show. we will be back here at 6:00 p.m. eesh. we will have more coverage as bill barr faces the senate. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. can the moment be tougher? let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we ever looking at the possibility that the mueller report will turn out to be far tougher than william and donald trump have been saying. this could explain why the president is bashing both the mueller report and the democrats who want to see the document in full next week. the attorney general was on capitol hill speaking basketbally for the first time since he obtained the report almost three weeks ago. barr said he's on track to

deliver a redacted version of the report within a week. >> my standpoint, within a week. i'll be in a position to release the report to the public and then i will engage with the chairman of both judiciary committees about that report and further requests they have. >> barr said he has the full report that could prompt the issue of that is subpoena they authorized last week. the most significant thing is barr refused to say what anyone at the white house has been briefed on the contents of the report. >> did the white house see the report before you released your summarizing letter? has the white house seen it since then? have they been briefed on the contents beyond what was in your summarizing letter to the judiciary committee?

>> i said what i'm going to say about the report today. i'm not going to say anything more about it until the report is out and everyone has a chance to look at it. >> the "new york times" reports his nonanswer is it raised the possibility that the white house knows more than the public or the congress about what mr. mueller reported. this comes as the associated press reports on trump's inner circle. some allies are concerned he was too quick to declare complete triumph and pushing president white house to raurn launch an a preemptive attack. we have already seen the president step up attacks on the special counsel and on the democrats seeking the full report. the president said i have not read the mueller report yet, even though i have every right to do so. the u.s. congressman, the chairman of the appropriations committee. i love when you guy dos it.

i try to ask the right questions. what did you make the his jaw dropping nonanswer when you asked the question, has the white house seen it or has the president seen it and he didn't answer. >> you are correct, chris. it's a pleasure for me to see you again and i'm delighted to be on your show. it was very clear for me that this report was reviewed by many people, including those in the white house. are the attorney general towards the middle of our discussion kind of clammed up and really didn't want to answer any questions. i made it very clear as did my colleagues, i'm a member of congress. i have the responsibility to ask and get the complete report. i look forward to seeing a version that is not redacted and certainly if he's not going to

give it to the appropriations committee, we know chairman jerry nadler will subpoena the report and we can all review it. look, i have seen many reports that can't be viewed by the whole public. you go down where you see a version that will include every bit of information. we need that report. we don't need that report that is redacted. we need the whole report and i know the judiciary committee will get it if he's not going give it to us in appropriations. >> what is the right answer to the question you put to him? do you believe the president has been briefed on this mueller report already? >> look, if the attorney general said he consulted with the white house, do you and i really believe that they kept it secret from the president of the united states? i don't believe that. >> i can't tell how much this attorney general is like the roy

cohen that he want head and like bobby kennedy, somewhere in the middle or like janet reno who used to pull out a note pat every time the president called her because she wanted to be official. i don't know how close they are. "the washington post" reports during a meeting with house republicans, president trump launched into a tirade about jerry nadler who has been seeking the full mueller report to the embarrassment of the report. he called him fat jerry as he described his weight loss surgery in the 2000s and suggested the democrat was still overweight. is the president getting antsy or nervous? he is like a bad 8-year-old. does he think it got messier and look at him? >> i think you vanish around long enough. your analysis is right on

target, but the bottom line is we need that report and if jerry nadler, the outstanding chair of the judiciary committee has to subpoena it, he doll so and i will see that report because that is my responsibility. >> congresswoman, it's great to see you. i would love to see you again. it takes so long to get any power in congress and you have it now. the chair of the committee, thank you for joining us. >> thank you and next time we will talk about tip o'neal. a pleasure to be with you. >> i'm joined by elliott williams of the justice department and a former special assistant to the attorney general. i want to bring in neal, the new fellow, if you will. what do you make of this role the white house is playing here. first of all, i'm not sure they should have any role here. the president is the subject of this report. why would he get a copy of it

before the people that are looking to investigate him on the hill? this is the house of representatives with the impeachment powers. the president gets to document before they do? >> he certainly shouldn't get it before they do. attorney general barr refused to say whether or not he will see it and shared with the white house or even more chillingly, whether the white house will play a role in deciding what information is redacted from that report. >> i think this is really messy. she is a smart politician as well as public servant. they all smell something up here. barr is working with trump. >> the way he entered the questions doesn't inspire a great deal of confident. there are three acceptable answers. yes, no, or i can't tell you because it's protected under the process.

i would have bickered under the last one, but making the choice not tell you because we have talked about it enough, it's hiding something from the american people. >> we all think that there is a connection between the huffing and puffing with the president lately. he was supposed to be exonerated. what's the problem? now he is getting angry about the report and the people like jerry nadler who will try to get it released. has he seen the bad side of the mueller report? >> we know there is bad information in the report. they would not have put in the summary document that this does not exonerate the president if there was not information that was harmful to the president. it wasn't stuff that you can charge him with criminally, that's fine, but it's still damaging to the president of the united states and of interest to the american people. they know something is coming even if it's not felony charges. it's bad misconduct as the

president. >> how about being manipulated by russian intelligence. he's working with special counsel mueller to complete redactions. when he asked about the letter he wrote on the conclusions and he couldn't answer why it does not exonerate the president. here's that exchange. >> can you elaborate on what is meant by does not exonerate the president? >> that's the language from the report. >> right, i understand that. >> that's a statement made by the special counsel. i wanted it as one of his bottom line conclusions. i'm not in a position to discuss that further until the report is all out and then what is meant by exonerate is a question that i can't answer. what he meant by that. >> neal, this is an interesting, almost peculiar constitutional law here. you don't exonerate because you

can't indict, but the president can't be indicted. what do you say? it seems like we have a catch 22 here. if you can't indict the guy and you are not supposed to talk about bad things he did, this is the thinnest -- it's a 400 page document. it has to go after the president. that's what it's about. 400 pages. >> attorney general barr subscribes to this odd theory of presidential power. the unitary executive theory where it's impossible for president trump to commit obstruction of justice even if he could be indicted. barr is kind of out on the extremes in terms of how he views presidential power. the other important thing that came out of the hearing today is that barr is planning to redact information that might damage the reputation of what he called peripheral characters. he said peripheral characters are people who can't be indicted which we know includes the president. so in barr's rendition of

things, president trump is a peripheral character when to the rest of the nation, president trump is the central player in this whole drama. so i'm really afraid that so much of the information that's damaging to the president will simply never see the public light of day. >> i can't wait to see a 400 page document reduced to 300 pages of black paper. redaction, redaction, redaction. i'm joined by democratic congressman joaquin castro who sits on the house intelligence committee. can you not indict because he has not committed a criminal act or the question of counter intelligence jumps out. what are we going to learn that we are already learning that it includes a charge that the president was manipulated by soviet or russian intelligence. >> that's one of the things that

has not gotten enough discussion. the counter intelligence issue and foreign interference and influence. we saw in the last week or so the story about a chinese spy going to mar a lago and trying to make her way in and do who knows what. with the russians, trying to have influence over the president and his circle, what they did to interfere with our elections. it seems like in the trump err accou, countries are having influence over our politicians. >> the fredo-like son to the president to give him dirt on his father's opponent in a way a child would accept that. anyone else would say wait a minute, i'm not going in a meeting with the russians to find dirt on my opponent. that lookings lis like a honey . >> when are governments think you are open or susceptible to invitations to make trade offs like that, they will come back

and try it again with a wider and wider circle of people. it will not just be russia, but china and the other countries as well. that's what we are seeing. >> attorney general barr said he is reviewing the conduct of the investigators when it comes to the counter intelligence probe that the fbi opened in the summer of stwent 16. >> i am reviewing the conduct of the investigation and trying to get my arms around the aspects of the counter intelligence investigation that was conducted during the summer of 2016. >> what do you make of the republican effort to try to not white wash the president, but to blacken the reputation of those who began it? this is a real effort to come back and get even. all this stuff. >> right. you take that statement and see what devin nunez is doing, going

after folk who is talked about collusion. we can't get to a point where you come after people who do their jobs in the intelligence community and you are so aggressive that you chill people from investigating anything else. it seems to me right now that that is the agenda of devon nunez and other people. >> where are you on the dossier after all these months? the dossier, what worth would you attach to it right now? all this stuff? >> it seemed to me based on what i heard that there were parts of it that were relevant. there were some parts that were not. i hope with the mueller report we will get a better sense for that. the country should be able to make their own judgment about the dossier and everything else. >> we will see. joaquin castro of texas. a member of the house intelligence committee. who is in charge after kirstjen nielsen's ouster. five other officials expected to

leave. who is running our home front security. is stephen miller the guy to do trump's dirty work? ahead of today's election in israel, president trump went out of his way to boost his friend, benjamin netanyahu, making shifts that could have far reaching rammive kag iification country and whether trump's efforts paid off for his bud. we have a lot to do tonight. stick with us. a lot to do tonig. stick with us. mom! he's blinking too loud. sorry, is that too loud?

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>> i never said i'm cleaning house. i don't know who came up with that expression. we have a lot of great people, but bad laws. homeland security is what we want. there is no better term and no better name. we want homeland security. that's what we are going to get. >> in four days, trump forced the resignation of his secretary, kirstjen nielsen and withdrew the nomination of acting immigration and customs enforcement director, ice. he is moving his customs commissioner to replace nielsen. he is considering removing the arkting secretary who by lay would fill in for nielsen. so everything is up in the air. "the washington post" reports chuck grassley warned against additional hirings saying he is very, very concerned. he added the president has to have stability with the number one issue that he made for his campaign. he is pulling the rug out from

the people who are trying to help him accomplish his goal is. other republicans echoed that concern. >> i'm concerned of a growing void of leadership in the department of homeland security. this department is changed with trying to grapple with some of the most significant challenges. you concerned about the departures of the differently homeland security and the void it is leave something. >> no question. the fact that there is a raft of vacancies at the department of homeland security is a real concern not just at the border, but many things the department is responsible for. >> the blood letting is just a piece of the administration's new policy from the hard liner who is really in charge at the immigration front. it's a frightening picture. that's coming up. picture that's coming up ...caused liver damage. epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. whatever your type, ask your doctor if epclusa is your kind of cure.

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the end result of this though is that our opponents, the media, and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions that the powers of the president to protect our koupcountry are ver substantial and will not be questioned. >> there is a tough guy. never have seen anybody talk that way about american life. that was the senior adviser stephen miller in 2017, mounting a defense of president trump's immigration policy. he was arguing against federal

judges to review executive actions such as the administration's travel ban that he held. they reportedly are one of the driving forces at the department of homeland security. moments ago kirstjen nielsen offered her resignation effective tomorrow. the "wall street journal" officials said they told miller he was in charge. miller is a part of the plans to make new hard line border policiesedaing that sources close to out going homeland secretary nielsen said trump and steve miller called for changes that are dubious and will be operationally ineffective. i'm joined by jonathan swan for axios and author, ron reagan.

i hesitate to attack everything about trump because i'm not sure the democrats have offered a clear alternative. the family operation is a political, normal, and every other human disaster. why does steve miller like it and want to bring it back? >> stephen miller views the separation of families as a deterrent. you have to remember the zero tolerance policy that jeff sessions announced, there was no secret about why they announced it. it was a deterrent and it had a deterrent effect. >> the mommy and the daddy said do we make a chance and do we gather money together and make a run for the u.s. border and asylum, knowing that once we get there, our kids will be taken away from us? >> yes. that's the deterrent. >> that sounds like sophie's choice stuff.

>> it's hard for folks like us and i'm sure jonathan is a decent fellow. like taking babies away and throwing them into cages and maybe never reuniting them because you lose track of them. it's hard to look at that and say it's tough and acceptable. we find this appalling, absolutely appalling and it'sng embracing this policy. it has to be a disaster. trump sees it differently and his base sees it differently. he knows and as long as it's little brown babies being thrown in cages, it's fine with them. >> do you think it's that way with him? really that bad. >> yeah. i think so. i think he is cynical about this. >> i think to look at the media, people don't trust governments to take care of their kids.

the idea of people not checking their luggage at the airport because they want to hold on to it. your kid is going to be returned to you in x many weeks when some of them were not returned. ron is right. some of them didn't. >> it's not clear that they were returning to the zero tolerance policy. >> what are is zero tolerance? >> they prosecute everyone and results in family separations. what they are doing and what they intend to do amounts to the most aggressive hard line policy changes we have seen since trump was elect and mostly it makes it much more difficult. they want to make it more difficult for people to seek asylum in america. it's not about the wall, it's about asylum. >> president denied he was trying to separate families and falsely blamed his predecessor, obama. >> president obama had child separation. take a look. the press knows it, you know it,

we all know it. i'm the one that stopped it. president obama had child separation. i'll tell you something. what you don't have it, you see many more people coming like it's a picnic. let's go to disneyland. president obama separated children. they had child separation. i was the that changed it. >> you know, ron, he is speaking with a forked tongue again. an old cowboy movie expression. it's a bad thing to do. obama did it and i'm doing it because it works. what is it? is he condemning the policy or celebrating it because he's bringing it back? >> you pointed out that what he said made no sense. he is blaming obama for having child separation tell us which is technically true but not really. this is the only thing that works. is obama good or bad and did he make a mistake by stopping the

child separations? is he suggesting that? i don't think so, but -- >> the country is divided. the president is going to say come next election, i don't care who the nominee is, he's going to say open borders like what i'm doing which is thuggish or get nothing done and force the american vote to want something done which is thuggish. that's family separation or the democrats that can't figure out what the alternative is. that's what trump is happy with. >> and trump is willing to go further than any political candidate we have seen. he wants to -- when someone comes to this country from these places, they have a credible fear interview. trump wants to make it much harder for them to get through that interview. he is willing to go places and he wants to speed up deportations and go to places we have not seen modern politicians

go. >> in trump's mind, she did not use executive power aggressively enough to get rid of people and stop people seeking asylum in this country. his view was that she was weak. the counter view is every time trump tried to do these policies almost without exception, the courts have joined him. everything is caught up in the cowers and where we are headed is 18 months of litigation. >> you may want to have steve miller fighting the bad guys. today, iowa republican chuck grassley was asked about the influence over policy. >> i have no way of measuring it except i don't see a lot of accomplishments that advises the president on immigration. >> it's interesting to watch the reasonable republicans like mid-romney who can be a mixed bag. let's face it. on this, i watched him on "meet

the press" and he sounds like a reasonable conservative. he verifies stopping illegal hiring and the menu of ways to stop illegal immigration. he didn't seem to be crazy. i think this guy, grassley has never been accused. he can be an sob sometimes. really tough. the guy is tough. he doesn't like the way trump is doing stuff. >> right. he's not going to get a job in the trump administration. he's not crazy. you have to be that. if stephen miller wants to be in charge of immigration and trump wants him in charge, let's make him in charge of immigration. let's make him the director of homeland security. stephen miller has been -- he used to go to a high school in santa monica. samo, we used to call it. he used to be distinguished as an obnoxious racist. now he is going to be in charge

of immigration. >> he would say throw trash on the ground so they have to clean it up. it's not your job. make them work for your money. what a mentality that guy has. he is advising the president. >> didn't like the use. i think chuck grassley is one of the toughest, toughest guys trying to get confirmation. thank you, jonathan. coming up, voters in israel headed to the polls to choose their next prime minister. we will take a look at the unprecedented ways and the way our president worked behind the scenes in front of the scenes to push the election of his chosen candidate. you are watching "hardball." e w" ♪ when cravings hit, hit back. choose glucerna, with slow release carbs to help manage blood sugar, and start making everyday progress.

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welcome back to "hardball." israel held a most consequential in decades. benjamin netanyahu faced fraud and corruption charges and both candidates remain locked in a neck and neck race. they are basically midnight over there, late past midnight, but historically this is the point that american presidents have abstained in getting involved in israeli politics, opting to play the friend of israel and honest broker. not this time. president trump broke with predecessors to help his friend be victorious today. he proved the american embassy to jerusalem was drawn from the iran nuclear deal and sovereignty over the gola n

heights. trump even invited the to the white house, two weeks before the election posing for the photo op. he forged no deeper political bond than the he had and it's the push to get him reelected paid off. shannon petty piece, this electi election and negotiations and politics, our president from eisenhower all the way up to w. his honest broker and they can bring peace and play a bigger global role than being buddies with israel. this president ignored the from the peace maker and honest broker and just played political

sidekick of bb. >> different presidents had different levels of honest broker they played. obama refused to meet with netanyahu when he came to visit saying it was too close to the election. those two had a chilly relationship. president trump did not endorse netanyahu which would have been a diplomatic no-no, but as you pointed out, there has been no eztation about enthusiasm and the timing of these moves and the golan heights and the guard. so clearly linked to the election. it speaks to one relationship that the president has with netanyahu and the relationship that jared kushner has with netanyahu and how much of the mideast peace plan is riding on netanyahu getting elected. he is really someone they formed an alliance with. this peace plan they have been working on falls apart to any extent that there is a peace

plan at this point. >> how much of this is trump's connection with american evangelicals? >> i think that plays a role. it helps shore up his continuing support from the evangelicals and gives them a reason to forgive all the unevangelical things he does. but also, let's not forget that he knows how to play trump like a violin and gives him twhat he thinks he ought to get everywhere. he gives it to him quite skillfully. >> he is talking to roosevelt. >> he knows how to play him really well. this will turn out to be one of the most controversial legacies of the trump administration. she squeezing toothpaste out of the tube and i don't know if it can be put back. >> for all of our viewers, if bb

goes down, is this an outpost of trump before his reelection? >> it's hard to tell how much the israeli populous can reflect the u.s., but netanyahu reflects this similar style of trump. they are both these take no prisoners political fighters. they get backed by the sense of nationalism. they shrug political norms and political correctness. i think that speaks to the bond and the relationship that these two have developed and a lot of ways they have the same style. as we sort of saw this wave of trumpian candidates around the world come up, we could look years from now and say this was the beginning of the end of that wave of trumpian nationalist kandsida candidates. >> the jewish coalition he said he supported their prime minister, netanyahu. >> i stood with prime minister

netanyahu, benjamin netanyahu. how is the race going, by the way? who is going to win the race? i don't know. it's going to be close. i think it's going to be close. two good people. but i stood with your prime minister at the white house to recognize israeli sovereignty over the golan heights. >> so people jumped on that term, your. i'm not sure. >> they are americans. democrat or progressive said that. if omar said that, it would have been. >> shocking, i get it. >> it would have been screaming headlines. >> the united states has a policy. we want to recognize the rights, too. you have a lot of arabs in

israel. almost all arabs want to have a country. we will work this thing out. they are not doing that. >> that's not the policy now. bb has foreclosed the possibility of a two-state solution because he's offering swiss cheese, basically. >> he's recognized all the existing settlements and the outpost settlements will be part of greater israel. >> who can accept that? what happens when you default to a one-state solution? that's the question. that will be answered by future generations. >> they suggest that a one-state will be arab mainly. >> it's relentless. he said in a one-state solution and we will find out what that looked like. >> i was in israel in the early 70s and that issue of can israel be a democracy and can it be a

jewish state if you annex? that conundrum sits in the face of every voter. how do you have a democracy if you include so many majority people if you bring all in the west bank? how do you do it? >> that makes the problem so difficult to solve and why we are struggling with it. i think one of the issues that the president said he tried to do with moving the embassy is taking the contentious issues off the table and saying it's settle and it's done and now try to negotiate. that doesn't appear to be working so far. our reporting from my colleagues in the mideast show this has been a big set back. the golan heights move. you cannot get them to the table at this point. it put them in a bad corner and as far as this mideast peace plan goes, it's difficult there.

>> well said. shannon petty piece and gene robinson. this summer marks the 50th anniversary of the moon shot. time flies. what this great country can do when we work together. look how proud we were in the world. the world said the united states can do it. what a country. what a moment. can we impact that pride? can we impact that pride ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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we choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills. because that challenge is that we are willing to accept. one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win and the others, too. >> welcome back to "hardball." this summer will mark the 50th anniversary since neal armstrong and buzz aldrin fulfilled the pledge to go to the moon. john f. kennedy and the great space race is starring douglas brinkley that describes the profound effects it had on our country. whenever we worry about american decline, this stood as the green light reminding us that as a society we can accomplish

virtually any feat. that is inspiring. i felt it when i said it. it made every american proud. it made all the squares out there, the hardworking guys with the slide rules and the guys that are not so cool or hip, all those people that make things work and study in school and did their homework. we can put a man on the moon. >> and kennedy as a senator was in the idea of beating russia with science education. "time" magazine picked scientist as the person of the year in 1960. when kennedy came in, we had the microchip in the late 1950s. radar had been perfect and we were doing satellite technology. kennedy decided technology and space is going to be a part of the heart and soul of the new frontier. computer classes started on campuses and nasa spread the money around to mit and caltech

and on and on. >> the greatest generation as tom brocaw christened them, cronkite who covered world war ii, they were in the cheering section. everybody was together. there was nobody against it really. >> not really. barry gold water wanted to go to the air force. didn't like civilian space. walter mondale and full bright thought it might be used for domestic programs, but it was a hangover of world war ii when we could all do big things that hurry up the economy approach. everybody thinks of nasa as the beginning of silicon valley and all of that. it's the last big act of world war ii. >> that's what i think. >> and fdr did grand cooley damn and are now had the highway project. >> they like the idea of leapfrogging. when i was growing up in the

50s, walt disney which was a great show for education, they had the german rocket scientist and he said the americans will be the first ones to get satellites out there. they pick up the paper one day and there is sputnik in 57. it took from 57 to the end of the 60s to leapfrog the damn russians. >> that's the word kennedy loved. leapfrog. he knew he could have done it, but didn't get funded by eisenhower. ike held a grudge for world war ii being a nazi and out of huntsville was not getting the funding. those van guard rockets he saw collapse were navy rockets. the army rockets were flawless and he built the moon rocket. >> today a lot of americans think of us as the rocket that won't make it.

what happened? under trump, the sense of lack of pride. >> it's a low ebb in american history. kennedy you know wrote the book on nixon. kennedy barely beat nixon, but he had a 67% approval rating because he worked to unite the country on a big goal. trump plays the politics of division. you are not going to get a moon shot. going to the moon cost $185 billion today. >> it sent a message to the world that we are the winning country. i was in africa and i was watching the whole thing. those countries said wait a minute, the americans know how to do this. the russians can't do this. >> 550 million people watched neal armstrong. john glen in 1962 became not just a folk hero, but he went all over the world. his capsule, friendship seven,

people would wait four or five hours and everybody loved the united states's space program. >> how do you bring it back? >> some people think we work with nasa and go back to the moon and buzz ald rin wants a mars shot. others think it's time for an earth shot. other things we need is a moon shot for cancer like joe biden. the word is out there and we are hungering to do something together. >> it's good to succeed. what a beautiful book. i tell you, this goes on your shelf. this is inspiring and proud because american diagnosis this. did you, douglas brinkley. president trump promised to pick the best people. for the american people or trump? back after this. people or trump? back after this.

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you know how the senate gets to confirm the top government officials in washington? that's a way of sharing power on who gets to run the government. under trump it didn't work that way. he put people in top positions that only he, donald trump, approved to put there. we have an acting secretary of defense and homeland security. acting secretary of the interior and office of management and budget and head of faa and head of fema and the secret service and acting white house chief of staff. is this what donald trump

promised? hardly. candidate trump said he picked the very best people for the top jobs. >> we want experts. our finest people. we don't want b level or c or d level. we have to get the absolute best. >> we will have all the best people. we will find out who they are. it won't be a politically best choice. >> we will use the smartest and the best. we are not using political hacks. >> we're have a government of deputies and they reached the top because the person on top was dropped or quit. those who didn't make the cut the first time around. if we are not getting the top official trump promised, we will get what he wants. people who may not be able to pass muster, but can be thrown into the positions without delay or refusal of the process. most importantly, will do what they are ordered to do by trump. trump's people who lacked the

credibility. we have a government of, by, and for, donald j. trump. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on all in -- >> i don't intend at this stage to send the full un redacted report. >> he plays keep away. >> i was not interested in summarizing. >> democrats promise a subpoena fight. >> if we don't get everything, we will issue the subpoena and go to court. >> why william barr refused the summary and why he refused to say whether the white house has seen the mueller report. how democrats are planning to get the un redacted report from adam schiff. from health care to tax returns to the border. >> we are bucking a court system that never ever r